Jakarta

[QUOTE=Lefeu;1735553]Most Western men have also grown up in Western countries with cute Caucasian girls all around them. There is nothing unique to Asian guys here. Most Western teenagers have also access to P4P, except that most of them don't need it as girls are readily available to them. Also, they don't pursue P4 P because they don't have the money at that age. Curious to know where Asian teens get their money for P4 P. Not all Western men want to date hookers, only a few may do so. And eating pussy, kissing a girl are all services that Western men enjoy. You may just like to have sex with providers. We enjoy kissing them and eating their pussy. Nothing wrong with that. Sorry, but most of your observations about Western men are incorrect at best, or applies to a small minority.[/QUOTE]To the extent Asian men and Westerners want different things sexually from their P4 P experiences this might solve the mystery of why some here find the service level at places like Classic and Travel in Jakarta just fine, while others (aka westerners) pretty consistently find the service at those places lacking. If you aren't looking for much in the way of service it is not difficult to find a girl who will meet that standard.

Mystery solved?

A few years back a group of us western guys met up and went to Malioboro. The group consisted of several guys who were new to the Asia scene, myself and one other, a New Zealander, the same age as the rest of us but who grew up in Hong Kong. The other guys (including myself) were all doing the usual sizing up the talent, chatting up the dancing girls, throwing money away on titty dances, trying to impress the dancers with our charm, wit and personalities.

The Kiwi guy was studying the drinks list looking for a particular fine brandy he liked and asking to see what cigars were on sale. Later when we all went our ways with the pretty young things, he went off to choose a masseuse to get the best massage he could get, specifically mentioning at the desk he wasn't interested in looks but on massage skills, I should point out he expected a happy ending but regarded that simply as something that was a part of a normal, good massage (unlike in the west of course).

Afterwards of course we all took the mickey out of him but he smiled quietly and explained that having grown up in Hong Kong he had got all the kid-in-a-sweetshop stuff out of his system by the age of 16 and now looked for certain more refined pleasures during his night out.

One of the great myths about the west is that we are more relaxed about sex than Asians, including Indonesians. We aren't, we range between extreme puritanism and prudishness, especially in regard to prostitution (try admitting casually in the west among colleagues that you have used prostitutes) to in-yer-face exhibitionism, debauchery and crudity, which also tends to have a slightly desperate rejection of our upbringing about it. Asians have a much more relaxed attitude to sex, they know all about it and where to get it but somehow don't feel the need to talk about it non-stop in explicit detail or have their women walk around like strippers. They know the difference between marriage and prostitution and the role each has in society and are far more accepting of the concept of extra-marital sex, especially Asian women, who are no fools. They were practising sublime refinements in sex and detailing them scientifically when we were rutting unwashed on mud floors in damp drafty huts.

The idea that young westerners are having carefree, uninhibited, joyful sex as teenagers (unless perhaps you lived in Southern California circa 1970) is balderdash, even today, sex is available but it is usually pretty grim and hardly the stuff of fond middle-aged remembrance. While it is simply absurd to believe that Asians are growing up in crabbed, restrictive, sex-free, authoritarian societies with no contact with the opposite sex beyond brief glimpses of an exposed ankle once in a while.

If such stereotypes were true then why do airplane loads of supposedly sexually-liberated young (and not so young) western males descend in their hundreds of thousands to avail of the sexual services of sexually repressed Asian women? Why aren't these men able to get this sexual relief in the oh-so laid back, easy-going west?

[QUOTE=Smoothy;1725879]It's crazy how much the price has gone up. In the past, if the rupiah devalued, I've noticed the price would raise as well. For example, back in 2001 the rupiah went from around 9000/1 to 12000/1. At that time, the girls raised their prices from 350 k to 500 k in BATS. Then that same year, Megawati replaced Gusdur as President and the exchange rate dropped from 12000/1 to around 8000/1 almost overnight. Did the girls lower their prices again due to that? No way. That's what's scary. When the rupiah strengthens again, at 1. 5 million, the price is going to be ridiculous. (It's already ridiculous if you ask me. But it is what it is.).[/QUOTE]Hi Guys, Been so many years since I am back. Actually this site is banned here in Jakarta. (Thanks to Betternet. Hehe).

Indeed the prices have gone up quite a bit over the years and I was also not in this game for a couple of years now, family commitment and living outside Jakarta city.

Regards the prices. One just have to look at the current cost of transportation and daily expenses. They are very expensive in my opinion. Food in Food court and restaurant is not far from Singapore.

I am now staying in Tangerang. There is a new bar there that operate the same as Stadium down in BSD City, called Venesia. First floor is a disco that open from 11 pm to 4 am. 2nd Floor is the SPA where the mamasan will parade the girls in nice uniform group as Tulip, Rose and forgot the last (All in is Rp600,700 and 800 depending on quality).

Also in Summarecon Area, there is a Pijit place call Rodeo. Also all in at Rp 650 k. Not bad in terms of look.

Do share more if you have any good joint there in Tangerang City. There used to be 2 pick up bar name Vino and Cheers down in Karawachi but have since closed. The girls were great and looks like working office girls. Wonder where they hang out now?

Cheers.

RM.

[QUOTE=Hilo77;1735985]A few years back a group of us western guys met up and went to Malioboro. The group consisted of several guys who were new to the Asia scene, myself and one other, a New Zealander, the same age as the rest of us but who grew up in Hong Kong. The other guys (including myself) were all doing the usual sizing up the talent, chatting up the dancing girls, throwing money away on titty dances, trying to impress the dancers with our charm, wit and personalities.

The Kiwi guy was studying the drinks list looking for a particular fine brandy he liked and asking to see what cigars were on sale. Later when we all went our ways with the pretty young things, he went off to choose a masseuse to get the best massage he could get, specifically mentioning at the desk he wasn't interested in looks but on massage skills, I should point out he expected a happy ending but regarded that simply as something that was a part of a normal, good massage (unlike in the west of course).

Afterwards of course we all took the mickey out of him but he smiled quietly and explained that having grown up in Hong Kong he had got all the kid-in-a-sweetshop stuff out of his system by the age of 16 and now looked for certain more refined pleasures during his night out.

One of the great myths about the west is that we are more relaxed about sex than Asians, including Indonesians. We aren't, we range between extreme puritanism and prudishness, especially in regard to prostitution (try admitting casually in the west among colleagues that you have used prostitutes) to in-yer-face exhibitionism, debauchery and crudity, which also tends to have a slightly desperate rejection of our upbringing about it. Asians have a much more relaxed attitude to sex, they know all about it and where to get it but somehow don't feel the need to talk about it non-stop in explicit detail or have their women walk around like strippers. They know the difference between marriage and prostitution and the role each has in society and are far more accepting of the concept of extra-marital sex, especially Asian women, who are no fools. They were practising sublime refinements in sex and detailing them scientifically when we were rutting unwashed on mud floors in damp drafty huts.

The idea that young westerners are having carefree, uninhibited, joyful sex as teenagers (unless perhaps you lived in Southern California circa 1970) is balderdash, even today, sex is available but it is usually pretty grim and hardly the stuff of fond middle-aged remembrance. While it is simply absurd to believe that Asians are growing up in crabbed, restrictive, sex-free, authoritarian societies with no contact with the opposite sex beyond brief glimpses of an exposed ankle once in a while.

If such stereotypes were true then why do airplane loads of supposedly sexually-liberated young (and not so young) western males descend in their hundreds of thousands to avail of the sexual services of sexually repressed Asian women? Why aren't these men able to get this sexual relief in the oh-so laid back, easy-going west?[/QUOTE]One of the best posts that I have read on the subject. Kudos to you.

Hilo, great post and I believe it is all true.

One thing I have never really understood is one question, that I get asked frequently (non P4 P scene). Which is a little relevant to your post as it is trying to understand acceptance of sex, or extra marital relations and foreign perception.

After it is established that I live in Indoville, I am from xyz country and I am not single, the next question is always whether my partner Indo or Bule (and can I see a picture?

When I answer Bule partner, it seems all is ok. Lets move on. When can we meet, how do you like your cock sucked etc etc. I have never answered that I have 'an Indo wife' cause I don't, but I suggest the response must be somewhat different.

- Is there a sisterhood? Do they think all Bule women are oblivious to what goes on? Is it ok to cheat on a bule woman but not an Indo woman? If I had an Indo partner does the current squeeze feel they have to share the jimmy choo's? Does the Indo squeeze feel they are doing better cause they got a bule who already has a bule wife. Or opposite?

I don't really get it. What does it matter where your partner is from? Doesn't matter to me, but seems to matter ALOT to the Indo dates I seem to come across.

[QUOTE=Hilo77;1735985]A few years back a group of us western guys met up and went to Malioboro. The group consisted of several guys who were new to the Asia scene, myself and one other, a New Zealander, the same age as the rest of us but who grew up in Hong Kong. The other guys (including myself) were all doing the usual sizing up the talent, chatting up the dancing girls, throwing money away on titty dances, trying to impress the dancers with our charm, wit and personalities.

The Kiwi guy was studying the drinks list looking for a particular fine brandy he liked and asking to see what cigars were on sale. Later when we all went our ways with the pretty young things, he went off to choose a masseuse to get the best massage he could get, specifically mentioning at the desk he wasn't interested in looks but on massage skills, I should point out he expected a happy ending but regarded that simply as something that was a part of a normal, good massage (unlike in the west of course).

Afterwards of course we all took the mickey out of him but he smiled quietly and explained that having grown up in Hong Kong he had got all the kid-in-a-sweetshop stuff out of his system by the age of 16 and now looked for certain more refined pleasures during his night out.

One of the great myths about the west is that we are more relaxed about sex than Asians, including Indonesians. We aren't, we range between extreme puritanism and prudishness, especially in regard to prostitution (try admitting casually in the west among colleagues that you have used prostitutes) to in-yer-face exhibitionism, debauchery and crudity, which also tends to have a slightly desperate rejection of our upbringing about it. Asians have a much more relaxed attitude to sex, they know all about it and where to get it but somehow don't feel the need to talk about it non-stop in explicit detail or have their women walk around like strippers. They know the difference between marriage and prostitution and the role each has in society and are far more accepting of the concept of extra-marital sex, especially Asian women, who are no fools. They were practising sublime refinements in sex and detailing them scientifically when we were rutting unwashed on mud floors in damp drafty huts.

The idea that young westerners are having carefree, uninhibited, joyful sex as teenagers (unless perhaps you lived in Southern California circa 1970) is balderdash, even today, sex is available but it is usually pretty grim and hardly the stuff of fond middle-aged remembrance. While it is simply absurd to believe that Asians are growing up in crabbed, restrictive, sex-free, authoritarian societies with no contact with the opposite sex beyond brief glimpses of an exposed ankle once in a while.

If such stereotypes were true then why do airplane loads of supposedly sexually-liberated young (and not so young) western males descend in their hundreds of thousands to avail of the sexual services of sexually repressed Asian women? Why aren't these men able to get this sexual relief in the oh-so laid back, easy-going west?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Hilo77;1735985]A few years back a group of us western guys met up and went to Malioboro. The group consisted of several guys who were new to the Asia scene, myself and one other, a New Zealander, the same age as the rest of us but who grew up in Hong Kong. The other guys (including myself) were all doing the usual sizing up the talent, chatting up the dancing girls, throwing money away on titty dances, trying to impress the dancers with our charm, wit and personalities.

The Kiwi guy was studying the drinks list looking for a particular fine brandy he liked and asking to see what cigars were on sale. Later when we all went our ways with the pretty young things, he went off to choose a masseuse to get the best massage he could get, specifically mentioning at the desk he wasn't interested in looks but on massage skills, I should point out he expected a happy ending but regarded that simply as something that was a part of a normal, good massage (unlike in the west of course).

Afterwards of course we all took the mickey out of him but he smiled quietly and explained that having grown up in Hong Kong he had got all the kid-in-a-sweetshop stuff out of his system by the age of 16 and now looked for certain more refined pleasures during his night out.

One of the great myths about the west is that we are more relaxed about sex than Asians, including Indonesians. We aren't, we range between extreme puritanism and prudishness, especially in regard to prostitution (try admitting casually in the west among colleagues that you have used prostitutes) to in-yer-face exhibitionism, debauchery and crudity, which also tends to have a slightly desperate rejection of our upbringing about it. Asians have a much more relaxed attitude to sex, they know all about it and where to get it but somehow don't feel the need to talk about it non-stop in explicit detail or have their women walk around like strippers. They know the difference between marriage and prostitution and the role each has in society and are far more accepting of the concept of extra-marital sex, especially Asian women, who are no fools. They were practising sublime refinements in sex and detailing them scientifically when we were rutting unwashed on mud floors in damp drafty huts.

The idea that young westerners are having carefree, uninhibited, joyful sex as teenagers (unless perhaps you lived in Southern California circa 1970) is balderdash, even today, sex is available but it is usually pretty grim and hardly the stuff of fond middle-aged remembrance. While it is simply absurd to believe that Asians are growing up in crabbed, restrictive, sex-free, authoritarian societies with no contact with the opposite sex beyond brief glimpses of an exposed ankle once in a while.

If such stereotypes were true then why do airplane loads of supposedly sexually-liberated young (and not so young) western males descend in their hundreds of thousands to avail of the sexual services of sexually repressed Asian women? Why aren't these men able to get this sexual relief in the oh-so laid back, easy-going west?[/QUOTE]I get the point of your post, and I very much agree. Westerners like to think they have a "carefree, uninhibited" lifestyle, but they are ignorant. And you can't tell them a damn thing because they already think they know everything based on their own fishbowl lives. Your comment on mentioning prostitution to them is spot on. I don't even mention it to anyone in the US because they don't understand it and it's a waste of time trying to explain it to them. (I think by categorizing a Westerner though, we have to stick with first world Western countries. South America is in the West, but if you go to South America, you can have a very very good time.).

But as far as that New Zealander, he got shagging hotties out of his system by the age of 16? So he had a good run from the age of 14 until 16? Come on. Hell, I've been shagging women non-stop in Southeast asia for over 16 years and I don't have it out of my system yet.

Having lived in Indonesia quite a while, there are of course times when I prefer a massage over shagging. The kid-in-a-sweetshop thrill left me years ago, but I still like sweets and would venture a guess that I always will.

[QUOTE=HardHatMate;1736070]
When I answer Bule partner, it seems all is ok. Lets move on. When can we meet, how do you like your cock sucked etc etc. I have never answered that I have 'an Indo wife' cause I don't, but I suggest the response must be somewhat different.

- Is there a sisterhood? Do they think all Bule women are oblivious to what goes on? Is it ok to cheat on a bule woman but not an Indo woman? If I had an Indo partner does the current squeeze feel they have to share the jimmy choo's? Does the Indo squeeze feel they are doing better cause they got a bule who already has a bule wife. Or opposite?[/QUOTE]My theory on this is that they are under the impression that every guy who comes to Jakarta will eventually leave his bule wife for an Indo girl. They seem to have the mindset that once a Bule tries an Asian girl, they never want anything to do with any Bule girl again. They aren't far off.

[QUOTE=Hilo77;1735985]If such stereotypes were true then why do airplane loads of supposedly sexually-liberated young (and not so young) western males descend in their hundreds of thousands to avail of the sexual services of sexually repressed Asian women? Why aren't these men able to get this sexual relief in the oh-so laid back, easy-going west?[/QUOTE]Because it's cheap compared to home.

[QUOTE=Smoothy;1736098]My theory on this is that they are under the impression that every guy who comes to Jakarta will eventually leave his bule wife for an Indo girl. They seem to have the mindset that once a Bule tries an Asian girl, they never want anything to do with any Bule girl again. They aren't far off.[/QUOTE]That's true and applies not to just Indonesia. Seem it happen in China, HK, Taiwan, Thailand and Singapore. In fact when we lived abroad, my wife and I would often identify potential fellow expats who would split with the wife and marry local!

[QUOTE=Smoothy;1736098]My theory on this is that they are under the impression that every guy who comes to Jakarta will eventually leave his bule wife for an Indo girl. They seem to have the mindset that once a Bule tries an Asian girl, they never want anything to do with any Bule girl again. They aren't far off.[/QUOTE]I think this may be the answer.

As someone with an Indonesian wife I too have always been asked that question but never having answered that my wife is a bule I can't say whether the reaction would be different (I must try it next time) but there is no doubt now that I think on it that the reaction I get when I say my wife is a local lass is one of ill-conceived disappointment, and I certainly never get the "how do you like your cock sucked" reaction that HardHatMate gets. I suspect that a combination of "don't mess with a sista / I could easily take a bule bloke off a bule woman" may well be the reason.

It's certainly an interesting aspect of life here I had never contemplated.

[QUOTE=Smoothy;1736097]
Having lived in Indonesia quite a while, there are of course times when I prefer a massage over shagging. The kid-in-a-sweetshop thrill left me years ago, but I still like sweets and would venture a guess that I always will.[/QUOTE]A very fair point.

Even if I hadn't had a typical Irish Catholic adolescence of grim, guilt-ridden gropes in the back rows of flea pit cinemas, or later drunken, unfulfilling fumbles in dirty bedrooms of damp student bedrooms I still would love shagging hot young Indonesian women.

I too hope I always will.

[QUOTE=Marky1;1736106]Because it's cheap compared to home.[/QUOTE]Are you sure?

Factor in the cost in time, money and hassle of transcontinental air travel, arranging and paying for food and hotel accommodation and the fact that you will be entertaining yourself in the upper-market end of brothels and titty bars (so cost clearly isn't your number 1 priority) and you could easily enjoy a fine time at the local cat house in your home town for a lot less hassle every other weekend.

But it's not the cost that makes you choose an Asian brothel and prostitutes over their western versions, is it?

Well, is it?

[QUOTE=Hilo77;1736334]Are you sure?

Factor in the cost in time, money and hassle of transcontinental air travel, arranging and paying for food and hotel accommodation and the fact that you will be entertaining yourself in the upper-market end of brothels and titty bars (so cost clearly isn't your number 1 priority) and you could easily enjoy a fine time at the local cat house in your home town for a lot less hassle every other weekend.

But it's not the cost that makes you choose an Asian brothel and prostitutes over their western versions, is it?

Well, is it?[/QUOTE]Cost is part of the equation. Most of my sessions in Jakarta cost about $30 US with some getting up into the $50 to $70 range. In Bangkok a two hour session at some place like Mango or Snow White will cost around $75 US. Although I no longer partake in the United States, I am guessing that a one-hour session with something more than a crack wh**e would be $200 - $400, which would add up if one went on a f**king binge, akin to what many do in Jakarta or Bangkok. And if the choice is between taking a vacation in Asia where prostitutes are available, and taking a vacation somewhere in the United States or another non-Asian location, in either scenario one would have to pay for hotels and food, which generally would cost more in the USA, so the only real additional cost is international airfare, which is counterbalanced by the lower prices prostitutes charge, as well as the generally lower prices for food and lodging.

And, of course, many of us often go to Asia on business and don't pay for airfare, hotels, or food (like me).

But the other part of the equation is prostitution is not legal in almost all of the United States so at least for those from the US This can be a big factor. More than twenty years ago I sometimes frequented Asian massage parlors in the Los Angeles area, mostly one in particular. At one point a new district attorney took office and I knew he did not like prostitution. Accordingly, I stopped frequenting the massage parlors. Sure enough, within about two months a number of them were busted, including the one I went to often, with the customers being arrested along with the prostitutes. Depending on one's profession and marital status, such an arrest can ruin one's life. Since that time I have not seen a single prostitute in the United States. It is too risky for many of us.

Parenthetically, there is legal prostitution in certain areas of Nevada, but it generally is only for those who like to spend hundreds of dollars (if not more) for an hour of mediocre sex from a hardened prostitute. No thanks!

[QUOTE=LAGuy5;1736342]Cost is part of the equation. Most of my sessions in Jakarta cost about $30 US with some getting up into the $50 to $70 range. In Bangkok a two hour session at some place like Mango or Snow White will cost around $75 US. Although I no longer partake in the United States, I am guessing that a one-hour session with something more than a crack wh**e would be $200 - $400, which would add up if one went on a f**king binge, akin to what many do in Jakarta or Bangkok. And if the choice is between taking a vacation in Asia where prostitutes are available, and taking a vacation somewhere in the United States or another non-Asian location, in either scenario one would have to pay for hotels and food, which generally would cost more in the USA, so the only real additional cost is international airfare, which is counterbalanced by the lower prices prostitutes charge, as well as the generally lower prices for food and lodging.

And, of course, many of us often go to Asia on business and don't pay for airfare, hotels, or food (like me).

But the other part of the equation is prostitution is not legal in almost all of the United States so at least for those from the US This can be a big factor. More than twenty years ago I sometimes frequented Asian massage parlors in the Los Angeles area, mostly one in particular. At one point a new district attorney took office and I knew he did not like prostitution. Accordingly, I stopped frequenting the massage parlors. Sure enough, within about two months a number of them were busted, including the one I went to often, with the customers being arrested along with the prostitutes. Depending on one's profession and marital status, such an arrest can ruin one's life. Since that time I have not seen a single prostitute in the United States. It is too risky for many of us.

Parenthetically, there is legal prostitution in certain areas of Nevada, but it generally is only for those who like to spend hundreds of dollars (if not more) for an hour of mediocre sex from a hardened prostitute. No thanks![/QUOTE]Spot on all the way around. I think the main reason is the fact that you could end up with a criminal record and have your life ruined. I wouldn't even consider having sex with a prostitute in the US. If I get caught in a raid at Hotel Maribaya in Jakarta, I pay a 1 million rupiah bribe to the police and go to Malioboro with no repercussions. If I get caught in a raid in the US, that's a big problem.

Hello Gents--my buddies and I are heading to Indonesia in September--spending 4 or 5 days in Jakarta before a dive trip. Present plan is to make the Grand Mercure Jakarta Harmoni our headquarters. Very close to Malioboro -- and a short cab ride to either CJ's or BATS-all of which we want to hit. For you Jakarta regulars, does this look like a good choice? Price is cheap enough--about $75/ night.