German FKK Clubs - Lounge and chat area

[QUOTE=XXL;2161919]Little hope of that if you look where the trend is going. Holland is more like the former Germany than the future one. Its heydays are in the past. When I was a teenager I remember you could spot the porn theaters in the Netherlands from far. They were all over the place and had a big letter 16 outside. This was the age at which you could get in. Sex shops windows were full of small ads for swinging and escorts, you could jot down the phone numbers while walking past. The Amsterdam RLD was the mother of all RLDs. You could buy various brands of pot and magic mushrooms in shops. Sex education documentaries on Dutch television showed how to properly finger a woman. I stiil remember the line "En dat is lekker" ("and that feels good") spoken just after you'd seen fingers working at female genitals. On public television folks! In a school documentary!

Such debauchery on a public media infuriated roman catholic Belgium next door. There were protests at government level. The Netherlands, or rather Holland as we called it, was a synonym for Sodom, Gomorrha and Roman orgies.

I'd been sent to stay in The Hague with a Dutch family to learn the language. I came home with my head buzzing.

It was obviously a Society that believed sex in virtually any form could do no harm to any one.

How things change.[/QUOTE]Now you are scaring me about future of German FKK. I hope it stay as it is in future.

The good thing is we got Austria and Zurich with exact same set up as German FKK almost, so we got safety net. Zurich will never change it erotic side to support the rich, I lived in Switzerland that nation is there to serve rich in every single way you can imagine including prostitution.

I hope Netherlands will install german FKK system more strongly in future, as you mentioned it used to be capital of Eros in Europe, so the ground is there and you got club like YY which is exactly like German FKK right?

[QUOTE=Neurosynth;2161824]By the way, this notion of "alpha males" in humans is at best a metaphor, and apparently for some a misleading metaphor at that.

Among animals with less complex social structures and simpler modes of communication there are indeed alpha and beta males. And even in these highly hierarchical animal societies the beta males have strategies for subverting the alpha males.[/QUOTE]Not necessarily replying to you, NS, just my take on alpha or beta males in regards to FKK clubs: We are basically all paying significantly younger girls for sex. What's alpha or beta about that? Money is the big equalizer, being nude or in a towel / bathrobe as well. There are guys inventing stories about what their profession is (doctors, lawyers), trying to impress girls. Who don't give a fuck, all they want is good and a lot of money and clean respectful clients. They couldn't care less if you are a plastic surgeon, dentist or garbage collector.

[QUOTE=Jnpr30;2161971]Say, there have been ten million sessions in the 9 months since July 1. Even a prolific attendee would have partaken a couple of thousand sessions at most in that timeframe. Perhaps he knows well a few others guys firsthand. Drawing conclusions about the whole entire population from one's individual experiences is not hypothesis, or scientific method. It is just a poor and not enough random sample, and a worse statistical inference.

Now what are we talking here? As Optimist said, not about past and current trends but causations in future. Think back to pre July 1. We were already debating what would happen, come the day of Armageddon. Neuro took the stance that the law was not implementable, and nothing much would happen. I took a more narrow stance and said what we write here has negligible or no impact on what happens in the real world. My good friend and ISG HVC (high value contributor Bitumen generally agreed with us both. That's it, just 3 lone posters. We could not take comfort in a lot of members agreeing with us, which some alpha male aficionados might appreciate.[/QUOTE]I agree that there were a lot of sky-is-falling predictions. But people will talk and exaggerate that is for sure. Some like Bitumen said nothing at all has changed and that CBJ has actually been perturbed. The truth is somewhere in between.

Individual personal experience may not be statistically significant but collective experiences are. Using Bitumen's statement for supporting evidence seems to be directly in conflict with your thesis of statisticsal (in) significance. At the same time, individual experiences are by definition infinitely more significant than Neurosynth's zero experience.

Something else to consider, the experience of extremely frequent regulars should also be scrutinized. When girls know you as a static figure in the clubs, they are less inclined to upsell and scam you. I'm sure people like Rogue Nation and Bitumen are proposed CBJ much less frequently than a once a year visitor.

I alluded briefly to beta males in one small sentence in one single post and posters on the board took off with the topic like a runaway freight train. I think it seemed to hit a sensative spot in many people. Perhaps it was a little too close to home taking some guys here back to traumatic experiences in high school.

Jnpr30. You ask about effects of new law and expected consequences. Here are a few thoughts. My view remains that

1. Registration is the main enforcement tool, and seems to be being used primarily to control illegal working by, say Albanians, and will be used to pressure girls into condom use (this is part of the registration process).

2. Advertising of AO, particularly commercial events, has declined. This may or may not continue to be the case.

3. Enforcement on individuals buying AO and BBBJ, is unlikely, as are raids specifically to catch purchasers. No doubt it will happen sometimes, as has happened very infrequently (and I think in effectually) in Bayern, but is not an easy tool for the authorities to use (staff resources, evidential problems and so on).

4. As you say, the impact of writing here about illegal activities will be negligible generally. If a girl is reported here as doing AO in a big club, then it might affect her as it has done in the past. Overall, what we write has no impact on how the authorities enforce licensing, fire and planning regulations. However, I personally am reluctant to write information which might encourage them to focus on particular clubs (anyway what I write is neither here nor there as other valuable members here and certain German forums explicitly write about AO). My choice of words however in my reports will leave a native english speaker clear about what happens in clubs. Clubs generally should be fine as long as they are seen to be making efforts to ensure compliance with the law.

5. In some clubs it seems from reports that the law has changed what services are offered. Whether this continues or not is only speculation. Also from reports it seems that members can find what services they want. To this extent reports do inform, but they prove no cause and effect overall (too many variables, known and unknown)

As many say, we do not need to panic, and the situation will evolve gradually. The initiative is in the hands of politicians and Police and local authorities, and all have been steadily tightening the screw in recent years (elimination almost of street prostitution, banning of prostitution totally in some cities, closing a few clubs using planning or other powers and so on). We can only hope that we have reached a point where they feel they have done enough to deal with what they see as issues of exploitation and also public disquiet. If the industry has a lower profile they might let it continue without further restrictions

Of course, this is only opinion LOL. We can discuss till the cows come home and will I think, fortunately, remain largely irrelevant to what happens in Germany.

[QUOTE=Optimist;2162116]Jnpr30. You ask about effects of new law and expected consequences. Here are a few thoughts. My view remains that

1. Registration is the main enforcement tool, and seems to be being used primarily to control illegal working by, say Albanians, and will be used to pressure girls into condom use (this is part of the registration process).

2. Advertising of AO, particularly commercial events, has declined. This may or may not continue to be the case.

3. Enforcement on individuals buying AO and BBBJ, is unlikely, as are raids specifically to catch purchasers. No doubt it will happen sometimes, as has happened very infrequently (and I think in effectually) in Bayern, but is not an easy tool for the authorities to use (staff resources, evidential problems and so on).

4. As you say, the impact of writing here about illegal activities will be negligible generally. If a girl is reported here as doing AO in a big club, then it might affect her as it has done in the past. Overall, what we write has no impact on how the authorities enforce licensing, fire and planning regulations. However, I personally am reluctant to write information which might encourage them to focus on particular clubs (anyway what I write is neither here nor there as other valuable members here and certain German forums explicitly write about AO). My choice of words however in my reports will leave a native english speaker clear about what happens in clubs. Clubs generally should be fine as long as they are seen to be making efforts to ensure compliance with the law..[/QUOTE]Funny how politicians in Germany care so much about brothels and they do not use that time they invest in brothel regulation to block refugee coming into Germany from non G7 nations or not even non G20 nations.

[QUOTE=Bitumen;2161708] There is no point writing a mass of individual field reports as few are interested as you say. [/QUOTE]I agree. It is because they are not really helpful to get the info about the WGs. Unlike local german boards where every poster and reader (including me) have pretty much the same backgrounds such as sexual urgency and so on, every poster on ISG has different definition of what is good session (or bad session). For example, a poster who hasn't have sex for six months before visiting the clubs usually would have lower standard of the definition of what is a good session than the poster who lives in Germany and visits the clubs every week. In addition, the posters from foreign countries tend to report much better session experience than the session experience they actually got because their total costs (including travel and hotel expenses) for each session are much higher than local germans who basically have no travel and hotel expense, so psychologically it would be painful to report bad sessions on ISG after spending a lot of money for mongering in the clubs.

In order to make the report about the WGs more informative and interesting. I would suggest that when any poster write a report about a WG, at the end of the report the poster should write "member-imposed" repeat factor of the WG. The repeat factor is the number (from 0 to 10) the poster would likely repeat the WG. For example, if the poster gives this WG the repeat factor of 10, this means that he would definitely repeat her next time, if he give the repeat factor of 0, this mean that he would definitely not repeat her. Any number between indicates how likely he would repeat the WG.

I think that the repeat factor of a WG is the most important indication of how good (or bad) session he had. It is not perfect on ISG as I pointed out in first paragraph of my post, but it is much better than just vaguely reporting the session with the WG.

Bfsie. Good idea. Helps more than reports which state " First I did missionary, then I did doggie" and so on. The more subjective the report the more useful.

Bitumen. If the field reports are for smaller clubs or about longterm girls then I find them a bit useful. In a club like Sharks or Oase, less so, although for example your recent Field Report on Betty at Sharks was a good example of a useful field report

[QUOTE=Jnpr30;2161971]Say, there have been ten million sessions in the 9 months since July 1. Even a prolific attendee would have partaken a couple of thousand sessions at most in that timeframe. Perhaps he knows well a few others guys firsthand. Drawing conclusions about the whole entire population from one's individual experiences is not hypothesis, or scientific method. It is just a poor and not enough random sample, and a worse statistical inference.

Now what are we talking here? As Optimist said, not about past and current trends but causations in future. Think back to pre July 1. We were already debating what would happen, come the day of Armageddon. Neuro took the stance that the law was not implementable, and nothing much would happen. I took a more narrow stance and said what we write here has negligible or no impact on what happens in the real world. My good friend and ISG HVC (high value contributor Bitumen generally agreed with us both. That's it, just 3 lone posters. We could not take comfort in a lot of members agreeing with us, which some alpha male aficionados might appreciate.

The goal posts kept moving the time field and kept getting wider. First it was July 1. Then, "let's give it a few weeks and months". Then it was Dec 31. Then it was Feb 28. And so on and on. And the definition of bad outcomes kept changing too. First, there was debate whether the fine would indeed be 50 grand, and others said the fine scales linearly with one's income, so don't be truthful about your salary. Some said passports would be confiscated. Some said girls might blackmail men? What if lady cops were sent to brothels to trap mongers? Would cops break down doors and barge in? (Side discussion: how about we take a door jammer every time we go to room and is Amazon shipping door jammers? Then there was some sort of offline-online combo effort undertaken by cops to read ISG posts, figure out the exact girls transgressing and doing something?? With that info at the club, not exactly sure what. Girls will be kicked out. Clubs shut down. A few more exotic theories were also presented but I am blanking out at the moment.

9 months later, we read Bitumen's comment that it is hard to find CBJ based on his numerous visits. Perhaps some guys are paying more, and some girls are ripping off, but if so nothing new. Girls' scamming index has been in the rise for years.

Perhaps it would help if you could define exactly what is the bad outcome you expect to happen, a rough timeline for this outcome, and what reports here will lead to that outcome. Perhaps after we manage to define who is a feminist and who is a beta male 🙂🙂[/QUOTE]Well written summary of the debate that has occured for the last 9 months encapsulating the main arguments and retorts. So far it has not been convincing that it is the end of the bar scene in Germany.

It still seems a case of business as usual.

[QUOTE=Optimist;2162116]Jnpr30. You ask about effects of new law and expected consequences. Here are a few thoughts. My view remains that

1. Registration is the main enforcement tool, and seems to be being used primarily to control illegal working by, say Albanians, and will be used to pressure girls into condom use (this is part of the registration process).

2. Advertising of AO, particularly commercial events, has declined. This may or may not continue to be the case.

3. Enforcement on individuals buying AO and BBBJ, is unlikely, as are raids specifically to catch purchasers. No doubt it will happen sometimes, as has happened very infrequently (and I think in effectually) in Bayern, but is not an easy tool for the authorities to use (staff resources, evidential problems and so on).

4. As you say, the impact of writing here about illegal activities will be negligible generally. If a girl is reported here as doing AO in a big club, then it might affect her as it has done in the past. Overall, what we write has no impact on how the authorities enforce licensing, fire and planning regulations. However, I personally am reluctant to write information which might encourage them to focus on particular clubs (anyway what I write is neither here nor there as other valuable members here and certain German forums explicitly write about AO). My choice of words however in my reports will leave a native english speaker clear about what happens in clubs. Clubs generally should be fine as long as they are seen to be making efforts to ensure compliance with the law.

5. In some clubs it seems from reports that the law has changed what services are offered. Whether this continues or not is only speculation. Also from reports it seems that members can find what services they want. To this extent reports do inform, but they prove no cause and effect overall (too many variables, known and unknown)

As many say, we do not need to panic, and the situation will evolve gradually. The initiative is in the hands of politicians and Police and local authorities, and all have been steadily tightening the screw in recent years (elimination almost of street prostitution, banning of prostitution totally in some cities, closing a few clubs using planning or other powers and so on). We can only hope that we have reached a point where they feel they have done enough to deal with what they see as issues of exploitation and also public disquiet. If the industry has a lower profile they might let it continue without further restrictions

Of course, this is only opinion LOL. We can discuss till the cows come home and will I think, fortunately, remain largely irrelevant to what happens in Germany.[/QUOTE]Thanks for the post. Registration does seem to be the big stick that has caused the most change. Even now when I talk with girls about the single pass that they have or the two phases that some girls got it does not seem a big deal at all. It is just money and a bit of time to get the passes.

The clubs were not helpful with getting the girls registered.

[QUOTE=Optimist;2162157] ... reports which state " First I did missionary, then I did doggie" ... [/QUOTE]LOL. Good observation.

Bitumen. Same here: getting a Pass seems to be no problem for workers legally in Germany. A bit of money, a bit of time, a halfhearted lecture, et voila.

That's what I've been told anyway (by the very few girls I spoke to about this).

Of course, as reported, some girls chose to discontinue working.

[QUOTE=Bitumen;2162161]The clubs were not helpful with getting the girls registered.[/QUOTE]That is not true, strongly depended / depends on the club. Some where very helpful, other didn't care at all.

[QUOTE=MrHo;2162145]Funny how politicians in Germany care so much about brothels and they do not use that time they invest in brothel regulation to block refugee coming into Germany from non G7 nations or not even non G20 nations.[/QUOTE]You must know that Merkel isn't someone who decides things. She just waits and sees and sometimes that's bad.

There's also the fact that Germans are obsessed with their past (not as obsessed as the English are about Germans but still at an unhealthly level). They are desperate for approval from Anglos and as we all know in Britain and the US everyone who isn't a savage is pro-open borders and diversity.

[QUOTE=Bfsie;2162153]Unlike local german boards where every poster and reader (including me) have pretty much the same backgrounds such as sexual urgency and so on, every poster on ISG has different definition of what is good session (or bad session).[/QUOTE]Hi Bfsie,

Would you please show us the links to local German boards? I think lots of non-German ISG members might be curious how did those locals describe the "good sessions".

I must sound daft, but. What is AO? I know most of the alphabet soup terms, but not that.

Pistons wrote: "And I believe the reason we are having a very hard time becoming independent and neighter (sic) a chimp nor a bonobo is that we don't look far enough back. We don't lift our heads high enough. So society is stuck healing the sickness with dangerous medicines instead of removing the cause of the sickness. We live in a reactive society instead of a proactive one. And that is the main problem with our world in the 21st century. Politics must change".

A profound observation: of not grasping the gestalt and myopia. To that add lack of rationality and empathy.

This group has abated natural horniness by refusing to be bound to the artificial supply side restriction, inaccurate price signalling and enforced services bundling. We buy on the spot market in world markets and currencies as free spirits and get gorgeous, beautiful women. Sounds like a much more intelligent and enlightened choice.

Does anyone else here read Nicholas Taleb, Franzen or Chekov?