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Detroit? Philipadelphia? If you'd prefer not to answer, it's okay. I've lived in both cities. X.
[QUOTE=AnonJohn;1242339]It's not cheap but worth every penny - C's Italian, just about a 5 min tryke ride past ABC hotel. It rivals many upscale Italian places here in the US and where I live is full of great Italian places.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=PIpimp;1242268]You guys should listen to yourselves. Complaining about a 1500 peso barfine. Asia has the cheapest sex with the most beautiful women in the world. Where else other than Asia can you sleep with a hot chick for less than $40? If ya'll want to complain about prices, you should move to Europe or the States or anywhere else other than Asia![/QUOTE]You might be missing my point (leave the emotion out of it). I'm not complaining about the prices. How on earth did you interpret that? I have enough money to give the girls many times what they earn. However, I see no good reason to do that.
Imagine a similar scenario. The girls in your neck of the woods are going for $200-$250 per hour. Some rich arabian princes start jetting into town, and because $10, 000 is nothing to them, they start dropping that large amount on the girls. You think those girls are going to want to go back to $200? Soon the per hour prices rises to $300, then $400, and so on. A few years later you have trouble finding a girl for $500.
The idea here is very simple: whatever the price the girls will work for, is the price you (and I) should give them. If she's willing to work for p500 for a WEEK, it would be very easy for me to give her p10, 000-15, 000. But that would be a mistake. Giving her more simply drives up prices in the future. That's the economic part. The other parts are emotional and cultural. Because you FEEL like you should give her whatever makes you feel good (emotion) , you are pushing your culture upon their culture. If you are OK stepping on someone else's culture to continue with your cultural approach, just recognize it. And ask yourself: did you know you were doing that, and why are you doing that?
A question: If I pay the p1500 ($40) barfine in AC, if I pay the girl's requested 600, 000IDR ($70) in indonesia, and I pay the girl's requested $250 in Miami, does that make me a 'cheap guy'? Are you saying that if I'm willing to pay $250 in Miami, I should give more than $40 in AC?
[QUOTE=PIpimp;1242268]I hope to never hang out with anyone of you cheap guys.[/QUOTE]Don't think that's much of a worry for you. Or any of us. Someday, you 'expensive guy', you should pay up the $20 for your membership here, and we can PM.
[QUOTE=Westcoast1; 1242642]You might be missing my point (leave the emotion out of it). I'm not complaining about the prices. How on earth did you interpret that? I have enough money to give the girls many times what they earn. However, I see no good reason to do that.
Imagine a similar scenario. The girls in your neck of the woods are going for $200-$250 per hour. Some rich arabian princes start jetting into town, and because $10, 000 is nothing to them, they start dropping that large amount on the girls. You think those girls are going to want to go back to $200? Soon the per hour prices rises to $300, then $400, and so on. A few years later you have trouble finding a girl for $500.
The idea here is very simple: whatever the price the girls will work for, is the price you (and I) should give them. If she's willing to work for p500 for a WEEK, it would be very easy for me to give her p10, 000-15, 000. But that would be a mistake. Giving her more simply drives up prices in the future. That's the economic part. The other parts are emotional and cultural. Because you FEEL like you should give her whatever makes you feel good (emotion) , you are pushing your culture upon their culture. If you are OK stepping on someone else's culture to continue with your cultural approach, just recognize it. And ask yourself: did you know you were doing that, and why are you doing that?
A question: If I pay the p1500 ($40) barfine in AC, if I pay the girl's requested 600, 000IDR ($70) in indonesia, and I pay the girl's requested $250 in Miami, does that make me a 'cheap guy'? Are you saying that if I'm willing to pay $250 in Miami, I should give more than $40 in AC?
Don't think that's much of a worry for you. Or any of us. Someday, you 'expensive guy', you should pay up the $20 for your membership here, and we can PM.[/QUOTE]Westcoast1: Do not waste your time. There are some people who have a need for attention and over-pay to feel wanted. In reality, the girls consider them easy money and do not respect them other than for a quick gold dig. Sad really, but you cannot change human nature!
[QUOTE=Fastpiston;1242701]Westcoast1: Do not waste your time. There are some people who have a need for attention and over-pay to feel wanted. In reality, the girls consider them easy money and do not respect them other than for a quick gold dig. Sad really, but you cannot change human nature![/QUOTE]I was just arguing the academic. I'm very verbose. Somewhat in defense of PIP, I too, on occasion, overpay (wherever I am). Why? Its just easier sometimes than haggling.
Regarding what you said about overpaying: I think it has to do with insecurity. I've spoken directly with guys at Kok's in the afternoon, and some of the stuff that flies out of their mouth I find amazing."The only way you can get a girl to [kiss you / stay later in the morning / not run at night / do anal, etc. ] is to promise to tip her big before taking her from the bar." That's just insecurity. Here is a better idea guy: just tell her what you want before mentioning barfining. She'll either say yes and you're out the door with her, or she'll politely say no and you're sending her back to the dance line.
Never having been to LA, perhaps I shouldn't interject an opinion, but it seems the topic being argued (ad infinitum) is more generic: who pays more than needed and who pays to the generally accepted standard. I'm pretty much out of the market now, but it hasn't been that long and I doubt the rules, assuming there are rules, have changed. I think that the whole issue is a question of duration of stay and experience. The longer-duration guys, who have heard all the stories, made all their mistakes long ago, and are sadder but wiser aren't likely to be duped into paying more than necessary. The guys who haven't reached that threshold for whatever reason, may be more tempted to pay over the top; whether out of a sense of compassion, for extra services, because it makes them feel better or whatever.
There's probably no right or wrong answer here: just experience or the lack thereof. Plus, there are, from time to time, some girls that just get to you. They strike some sort of responsive chord that just resonates somewhere, and you want to give her more than absolutely necessary just to feel good. It's all fine. I'm sure all of us have at one time or another, paid over the top whatever our motivation was for doing so.
At the end of the day who cares really? There's so much endless opportunity, that a few guys who spend a few bucks more isn't going to affect the market one way or the other. The tides of new provincial girls will forever wash up on shore to mingle with the more hardened pros who have been on the game for a while.
GE
[QUOTE=GoodEnough; 1242758]Never having been to LA, perhaps I shouldn't interject an opinion, but it seems the topic being argued (ad infinitum) is more generic: who pays more than needed and who pays to the generally accepted standard. I'm pretty much out of the market now, but it hasn't been that long and I doubt the rules, assuming there are rules, have changed. I think that the whole issue is a question of duration of stay and experience. The longer-duration guys, who have heard all the stories, made all their mistakes long ago, and are sadder but wiser aren't likely to be duped into paying more than necessary. The guys who haven't reached that threshold for whatever reason, may be more tempted to pay over the top; whether out of a sense of compassion, for extra services, because it makes them feel better or whatever.
There's probably no right or wrong answer here: just experience or the lack thereof. Plus, there are, from time to time, some girls that just get to you. They strike some sort of responsive chord that just resonates somewhere, and you want to give her more than absolutely necessary just to feel good. It's all fine. I'm sure all of us have at one time or another, paid over the top whatever our motivation was for doing so.
At the end of the day who cares really? There's so much endless opportunity, that a few guys who spend a few bucks more isn't going to affect the market one way or the other. The tides of new provincial girls will forever wash up on shore to mingle with the more hardened pros who have been on the game for a while.
GE[/QUOTE]Amen Brotha! Preach on!
To those guys able to give me advice on santos st, massage and food.
Much appreciated.
Are you saving this stuff? Use a pen name and self publish it, it works for me. Some people are saying "amen"!
I want to respond to the last sentence. It is much more interesting to contemplate how we can slow down the hardening process, while still being generous enough to enjoy the freshness of the tides.
(sidenote: it took me a few minutes to finish this post as a bit of G&E came on the radio. The Jungle)
X Man.
[QUOTE=GoodEnough; 1242758]SNIP.
There's probably no right or wrong answer here: just experience or the lack thereof. Plus, there are, from time to time, some girls that just get to you. They strike some sort of responsive chord that just resonates somewhere, and you want to give her more than absolutely necessary just to feel good. It's all fine. I'm sure all of us have at one time or another, paid over the top whatever our motivation was for doing so.
At the end of the day who cares really? There's so much endless opportunity, that a few guys who spend a few bucks more isn't going to affect the market one way or the other. The tides of new provincial girls will forever wash up on shore to mingle with the more hardened pros who have been on the game for a while.
GE[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Westcoast1;1242642]The idea here is very simple: whatever the price the girls will work for, is the price you (and I) should give them. If she's willing to work for p500 for a WEEK, it would be very easy for me to give her p10, 000-15, 000. But that would be a mistake. Giving her more simply drives up prices in the future. That's the economic part. The other parts are emotional and cultural. Because you FEEL like you should give her whatever makes you feel good (emotion) , you are pushing your culture upon their culture. If you are OK stepping on someone else's culture to continue with your cultural approach, just recognize it. And ask yourself: did you know you were doing that, and why are you doing that?[/QUOTE]Look at what happened in the FSU. Totally agree.
[QUOTE=SimonHeSays;1242879]Look at what happened in the FSU. Totally agree.[/QUOTE]Until a few months ago, I didn't even know that stood for Former Soviet Union. Regarding:
I have many friends here who either are, or at previous times, were married to ukranian or Russian gals. Those who divorced did so for a variety of reasons. Several have traveled in / out of russia for about 2 decades. They are to russia, what many filipine regular board members are here in this thread. Some of them are also members of ISG. They have relayed, individually over the many years, the ever-increasing costs of mongering in FSU. I didn't really pay attention to it until a few months ago. I was browsing the eastern european ISG threads, and having never been there, noticed what I thought were either miss-printed amounts, or overly exaggerated amounts, being given to the girls. Converting the Polish currency to US dollars, I was shocked. They are paying $100+, and up to $500 per hour for a girl. I sent off a PM to what appeared to be several regulars there from western europe, and their replies confirmed the high prices. While waiting for their replies I decided to wade thru the ukraine and Russian threads. Same thing. Guys were bragging up getting model material, but were paying $300+/hour. I PM'd those guys to and confirmed those prices.
I contacted my friends here and enquired why guys would go to russia to get trim at prices they could get model-material at home. My friends no longer bother mongering there, they said, as prices had skyrocketed. The cost increases, in their opinion, are due to two things in FSU:
1. Cultural differences in tipping and spending. They said that europeans and americans are just used to overpaying. They admit their own guilt in the process.
2. The Russian economy improved in the last decade. However, considering what they were paying a decade ago, vs what is being paid now, they don't think the amount of increase in average income justifies what the girls are getting. Hence, see item #1 above.
I have read quite a few mentions of 'shot trays' on these pages. How common is this in the bars? I will spend most of my time in Fields but plan to visit Perimeter during the day, especially Pony Tails thanks to recommendations on this forum. Are the shot-trays just a way to get around the bar-fine system following the police raids? I'm assuming that instead of paying, say, a 1500 bar-fine, you buy a tray of drinks for 1500 and then can leave with the girl in your own time. Is this correct?
[QUOTE=Westcoast1; 1243014]Until a few months ago, I didn't even know that stood for Former Soviet Union. Regarding:
I have many friends here who either are, or at previous times, were married to ukranian or Russian gals. Those who divorced did so for a variety of reasons. Several have traveled in / out of russia for about 2 decades. They are to russia, what many filipine regular board members are here in this thread. Some of them are also members of ISG. They have relayed, individually over the many years, the ever-increasing costs of mongering in FSU. I didn't really pay attention to it until a few months ago. I was browsing the eastern european ISG threads, and having never been there, noticed what I thought were either miss-printed amounts, or overly exaggerated amounts, being given to the girls. Converting the Polish currency to US dollars, I was shocked. They are paying $100+, and up to $500 per hour for a girl. I sent off a PM to what appeared to be several regulars there from western europe, and their replies confirmed the high prices. While waiting for their replies I decided to wade thru the ukraine and Russian threads. Same thing. Guys were bragging up getting model material, but were paying $300+/hour. I PM'd those guys to and confirmed those prices.
I contacted my friends here and enquired why guys would go to russia to get trim at prices they could get model-material at home. My friends no longer bother mongering there, they said, as prices had skyrocketed. The cost increases, in their opinion, are due to two things in FSU:
1. Cultural differences in tipping and spending. They said that europeans and americans are just used to overpaying. They admit their own guilt in the process.
2. The Russian economy improved in the last decade. However, considering what they were paying a decade ago, vs what is being paid now, they don't think the amount of increase in average income justifies what the girls are getting. Hence, see item #1 above.[/QUOTE]Mongering in Europe and Asia is not the same. Its not just the economy and over tipping but also the nicest girls have left those countries and can be found in Amsterdam, London, Vienna all over Germany so what is left is either the crap or the top of the range that can make the same living at home as in any other place. I am in Warsaw at least twice a year and price has been fairly stable over the past 4-5 years the only difference being the devaluation of the US dollar and the Euro. My main currency being the AUD for me its actually cheaper now than what it was before. Best Polish chick I have ever had was 50 euros in Amsterdam. Second best was in London 40 pounds (both short time). I have had few good once in Warsaw, Poznan and Krakov but not like the one in Amsterdam.
What I am trying to say is you can't compare Europe with its ever more opening borders, cheap flights and no longer visa issues (easyer migration, how many poles reside in London today?), stag parties (incidental mongering, overpaying) , economies on the rise (eastern europe) , better education and opportunities for women, conservative mindset (south / eastern europe. Balkans) and so on vs Philippines which is hard to get to to begin with, then you have lose morals so its much easier to get into their pants, no opportunities, rampant poverty, overpopulation and so on. IMO the only reason why prices rise in places like AC is greedy bar owners and nothing else. The girls would work for less, they work for whatever the bar specifies simply because if they don't do it they have nothing else to do or go back to. All the regulars here have at least one story where they have got a 'bargain' because the girl hasn't eaten for days or needed a place to crash or money to get back home after some asshole stood her up or whatever. In Manila I can see limited alternatives for the girls but in AC we are talking desperate province girls that consider 200-300 peso a day a good wage. Until Philippines can attract mass tourisam the way you see it in thailand or bali individuals spending habits would have very little to do with price rises. Problem is the AC is like Hotel California we always go back, we pay the price and we have very little say in it.
[QUOTE=GoodEnough; 1242758]There's probably no right or wrong answer here: just experience or the lack thereof. Plus, there are, from time to time, some girls that just get to you. They strike some sort of responsive chord that just resonates somewhere, and you want to give her more than absolutely necessary just to feel good.
At the end of the day who cares really? There's so much endless opportunity, that a few guys who spend a few bucks more isn't going to affect the market one way or the other. The tides of new provincial girls will forever wash up on shore to mingle with the more hardened pros who have been on the game for a while.
GE[/QUOTE]Amen brother! Know what the going rate is in any given area, but don't be afraid to spend more when you think the service, or girl is worth it.
YM
[QUOTE=Sir Lancelot;1243333]I have read quite a few mentions of 'shot trays' on these pages. How common is this in the bars? I will spend most of my time in Fields but plan to visit Perimeter during the day, especially Pony Tails thanks to recommendations on this forum. Are the shot-trays just a way to get around the bar-fine system following the police raids? I'm assuming that instead of paying, say, a 1500 bar-fine, you buy a tray of drinks for 1500 and then can leave with the girl in your own time. Is this correct?[/QUOTE]Some of the bars had the shot trays. They stopped the shot trays about 1 or 2 years ago. It was to get around the barfine system; it was a waste since the shots weren't usually drunk (true alcohol abuse). Then they stopped it, and went back to the barfine.
Now it seems most bars on Fields have the Party Animal bottle (Was it due to the raids, or did it start earlier?). Same system as the shot trays. You buy the Party Animal bottle to compensate the bar for the time of the GRO (ha ha, Guest Relations Officer) , in lieu of the barfine. I was told the Party Animal bottle is some type of wine, about 80 pesos at the market. At least now, somebody can keep the bottle of booze; my favorite girl keeps the bottle to sell in Manila when she goes home.
PS: Most barfines on Fields is now more than 1500.:(
Was in Ac last September and one of our group Bf one from a place. I can't remember the name of it. They were serving the drink tray when the girl was a Bf.
Now can't tell you if more were doing it as we have our girls and / or just find what we are looking for and go from there. Not a lot of bar hopping with us