East China - Shanghai

[QUOTE=Changlelu;1858450]With the passing of time comes reflection, perspective and further insight. Let me first of all thank the resident seniors who were so kind to reach out with support and request for more details. Although I wanted to keep it short and general, the follow-on discussion has tended to go a bit off track and I would like to add some further remarks within my limited publicity space (which everyone in my situation would consider as well, thank you).

[/QUOTE]Thank you for sharing your personal experience.

Though I do not have the un-pleasurable experience of visiting the "weather bureau".

I believe I have heard enough stories inside Shanghai legal circles to talk about this very important issue.

Alright, enough of the metaphors.

First of all, I will start with the legal side on what is supposed to happen if you are caught.

But we should be reminded that rule of law in China is not a well-established concept.

Especially when it comes to administrative penalties or criminal procedure.

So what could really happen can be totally different to what the law or regulation says.

Your experience can vary widely given the political goals of the agency vs the personal needs of the individual officers.

Here is what is supposed to happen:

Anyone caught in a prostitution case is generally subjected to administrative penalties by the PSB aka the police station.

You may be detained up to 15 days and charged a fine of 5,000 RMB, and the police may inform your family / employer.

They may also inform the exit and entry bureau and your Chinese visa would be in jeopardy.

You may be permanently banned from visiting China again, though I have also seen cases of 2 year waiting periods.

Then there is the foreign diplomatic issue.

Typically, foreign embassies and consulates require Chinese law enforcement agencies to contact them within certain days if one of their citizens are detained.

These are governed by individual treaties, I attended a seminar that talked about it recently.

I only remember the countries I care about.

So, for US citizens, the US consulate must be notified within 4 days.

Canada is kind of vague, I think the exact language is ASAP.

Japan is also 4 days.

I don't really remember the rest, but with the exception of a few countries that say ASAP.

The general rule is Chinese authorities are supposed to inform them within 4 - 7 days of detainment.

So technically, say if you are American, and they only detain you for three days they are not in violation of the treaty if they don't let you contact the Shanghai consulate.

Now there is the part of what could happen:

Generally, most of my sources tell me most law enforcement agencies do not like to get any foreign diplomatic service involved.

Because their bosses may get a political black eye if any foreign media picks up any human rights abuses or procedural violations, which there will be too numerous to count.

And because of the 4 day rule, it also gives the individual officers a chance to prey on detainees.

Like the story I shared before. A former colleague was arrested in a sauna bust.

He did not speak Chinese but the police did not provide him with any translator.

He was thrown in jail and ignored for three days.

The fear got to him, and he managed to buy his release and a clean record for 60,000 RMB.

He got away with no rap sheet, but he could not explain away his three day disappearance to his boss and was subsequently fired.

I think he could have said he got kidnapped which is actually a somewhat accurate depiction of what really happened.

But then maybe he was worried to get involved with the police again should his boss force him to press charges.

Also, from what I heard, the police do not like to target foreigners in general.

1. They generally believe it is not worth the hassle, especially if the detainee does not speak Chinese.

2. With the economic growth in China, being a foreigner in China no longer automatically means you are rich.

If the individual officers are interested in pure financial gain (aka a shakedown).

It actually makes more sense to target someone with a deep local bank account.

Most business travelers do not have local bank accounts, and they cannot easily distinguish expats and business travelers / tourists.

Therefore the maximal amount of extortion money they could get is subject to whatever spending limits are placed on your foreign bank card.

So they could go through a lot of trouble without any substantial reward to justify the risk and trouble of quasi-legal detention.

BUT, occasionally the PSB do get political directives that require them to arrest certain amount of foreigners for whatever purpose.

If you are familiar with Chinese propaganda, you should have been aware the PRC gov really touts nationalism.

So it is beneficial for their political agenda to demonstrate to their underlings that the days of colonialism is over.

Foreigners can and will be punished by Chinese law, and foreigners are not on any moral high ground.

If they do get such a directive, then you are probably really screwed if you are caught.

BYE BYE JOB, BYE BYE China VISA!

So there are generally four categories of what could happen if you are a foreigner caught in a prostitution bust:

1. Best case scenario: They let you go on the spot, because they feel you are not worth the trouble.

2. You are legally detained and fined according to law and expelled from China.

3. You are illegally detained and extorted.

4. Your government comes to rescue you, but you are still expelled from China, because the PSB can and will do that even if just to save face.

(Technically, the PSB is legally entitled to decide who is no longer welcomed to China.

The Exit and Entry Bureau and the PSB are both under the same Ministry of Public Security).

NOTE: This piece should not be considered legal advice in any sense.

I am not licensed to practice PRC law even though I have a degree in it.

I can only speak from experience and what I heard.

Though if you are indeed arrested in a prostitution bust.

I do not know if it will do you any good by seeking legal representation.

If lawyers are involved, it may force the police's hand to do everything by the book.

Which means in any case you will be stuck with an arrest record that looks really bad for visa purposes.

Or you could easily spend more money on legal fees than any fine / bribe combined without any guaranteed good outcome.

Good luck!

BTW, no matter what is happening, do not insult or threaten the police.
These include stuff like: Hey, I want your badge number, I remember you, or you are making a big mistake, my government will not stand for this.

Chinese police do not respond well with threats especially if nationalism/national pride is involved.
If they really believe you can follow through with what you claim you can pull off, they would have released you already.

If you act like an arrogant and obnoxious foreigner yapping about due process, civil liberties, and human rights all the time of your stay,

I doubt the police will respond in a kind way, and yes, "accidents" can happen to detainees ALL the time.

Hello all!

I have been a lurker / occasional poster, but most of all a paying member.

Would someone be kind enough to PM some info about Jiyuan. I have a pretty firm idea of where it is at, I just need a little confirmation before I go out on the chase. Seems a little far out.

Thanks,

Qd6194

I was wandering around Jing'an the other day that I had some time off from work. I walked inside Spring massage on Jiangning road for a standard massage. I've heard they do HJ for a tip, but I swear I didn't go in there looking for a release. All I wanted was a massage.

However, halfway through it, I'm laying all naked, towel aside, as the masseuse does her standard thing. BAAAAM goes the door and a scared woman holding a radio shouts something at her. She immediately leaves the room. 10 seconds later I'm wearing my underwear and ready to GTFO.

Another woman walks in. Wearing a full blown Thai-style uniform. With branded oils and shit. She lits a candle. Music changes. Everything becomes more Zen.

Weird shit. Worst massage ever.

When I walked out, two policemen were getting a foot massage near the entrance. They looked at me like 'Hey you –*We know'.

I was like 'tingbudong'. And walked away with an erection.

Your posts include some really valuable information to help us all understand more about the unpleasant side of our hobby. We all need to be as knowledgeable as possible about what risks we might be facing.

Have fun and be safe out there.

If you discover any other places, please let us know. I'd like to PM you, but you arn't a member.

[QUOTE=ShanghaiNong;1858218]Based on the great post in the Suzhou blog, I have explored around in Shanghai a bit for this, and have had a little luck- found one. This is in Minhang, not too far from the Jiaoda main campus, called Lianming (32852;26126;33310;21381. This is on Lianming Lu. Not so easy to find, but its there- can look up in google maps. Entrance is on a side of a building- need to look for this. Can watch people coming in and out- and will find it. Entrance fee is 20 RMB, and no questions were asked. Can then go up and check coat, etc. Buy tickets at the counter for 20 RMB each- so give these to the girl, not cash.

I went there on a Friday evening, a bit too late (9 pm)- it closes at 10:30. Pretty busy. According to people I talked to, it's less busy Sun-Thursday, with a lot more girls compared to guys. People there were very friendly- best to speak Chinese. The staff asked how I like it, how I like the girls, etc. I also talked to some of the customers, who where certainly surprised to see a Westerner there. Got the usual stares- but these are normal stares, not glares. Some then even tried to hook me up with girls they know there (there seemed be many regular customers). One older man even showed me how to best grope a certain girl.

Some of the girls were nice, some not so nice. Few sauna level. Many were dressed rather racy. Talking to these girls, some are there every day, some occasionally. Some have been there a while, and some only a few days or weeks. I think there is a fair amount of turnover. I asked a couple of the girls, and they had never seen a westerner there before, though one had danced with a Japanese. Most will assume that you do not speak Chinese, until you do.

It was not hard to find dance partners. Same process as described in Suzhou board. After each dance I would go over and sit or stand in a different place, and check out the scene. No need to take every dance. As in Suzhou, it's one dark / slow dance, followed by light / fast. In the dance, as grabbing and other groping were the norm. The floor was dark, though maybe not as big as the Suzhou places. With some girls there was no talk, and some talking throughout. In a couple cases it got pretty passionate, and in others the girl just went through the motions. I danced with a couple 2-3 times, and built a decent rapport. Let's see if they are there when I go back.

I think I could have gotten some phone numbers or wechat, though as this was the first time I left it- will do this next time. And I'm not sure I would push for any same day stuff until I know how the place works better.

Taking to the people there, they say there are a few other Wuting in Shanghai, but not many. There is one in Qingpu, which is smaller (and a bit far for me), and another in Pudong, which hopefully I'll be able to thresh out.

So something else to check out. My suggestion is that don't get there too late (opens in the afternoon), don't come in too big a group (may attract undo attention), make friends with the locals, and go with the flow. Good luck.[/QUOTE]

Hi guys,

I am living in Shanghai since almost a year now. I have never visited a Sauna or Spa as I don't speak any Chinese and I am not familiar with how it goes there. So far I had some fun with ladies from the usual places like Manhatten or Judys and also some pick ups in other clubs of Shanghai.

I also have a few regulars on my WeChat.

I am writing this post, because I want to ask you guys if anyone of you wants to exchange some wechat contacts of nice girls. Also if anyone would like to hangout for a beer or two and introduce me to the whole sauna / spa thing I would be happy!

Just drop me a PM if you are interested in the exchange of some WeChat contacts. I am happy to share and would be happy to also get some new girls contacts.

Enjoy the long weekend!

[QUOTE=Carage;1858628]Thank you for sharing your personal experience.

Good luck![/QUOTE]Thank you so much for the info. It is nice to have the knowledge just in case.

Jb.

It's great info and sorry again to you Changelu for what you went through.

Seems like Saunas and BBS etc are a bit risky. OK statistically one could argue it's low chance of getting caught but the consequences can be quite serious when that happens.

Obviously everyone makes his own decisions but personally I think getting an Escort from Steven's site or a pick up from Manatthan is not bad option. At least you.

Have little to worry about and it's about the same price anyway.

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I took the leap of faith a few nights ago as I was a little intrigued by the wechat engineers offering hovering around my phone screen.

I picked one through the "discovery" function and hooked up with the Muppet. He posted pictures of the engineers on his wechat moment with respective number. I picked one who seemed to have a higher chance of being "real".

So, it was 200 RMB deposit over wechat, then 1000 RMB to the engineer on arrival. The Muppet tried to talked me into an overnighter for just an additional 1000 RMB. Sure, no prob, if the engineer was good, I will have her for a week.

Agreed on BBBJ (OWO) and the full service. Girl arrived, I picked her up, not the person in the picture, but she looked OK (average, very average). But I decided to press ahead knowing that it would be a mistake.

Long story short, the engineer was rather uninterested in the service, BBBJ would attract an additional 500 RMB, I say, GFYS. Can't suck puppies, can't touch kitty. Wasn't impressed. But given the sunk cost of 1200 RMB, I had to give something back, and so we did what we had to do, and quickly wrap things up.

On her way out, the engineer asked for taxi fare, I gave 100 RMB, then she haggled for tips, I gave her another 100 RMB, then she haggled for more tips, I say thank you very much and have a good evening.

I texted the Muppet back and told him I was utterly disappointed. I will stick with my regulars. I think these girls are just girls from the sauna with an outcall subsidiary.

I do want to see if any of you had similar experience with this type of wechat trade?

Beijing Rd Spa near Jingan Temple is open again. The colored sign was never turned off when it was close recently. I did not go inside, but pushed on the door and it was open. Anybody want to tske one for the team? Sam?

[QUOTE=Beijing4987;1860168]Beijing Rd Spa near Jingan Temple is open again. The colored sign was never turned off when it was close recently. I did not go inside, but pushed on the door and it was open. Anybody want to tske one for the team? Sam?[/QUOTE]Mongering in Amsterdam this week and doing quite well. It's kind of a long drive from here for am HJ. Besides I've discovered a private house that does FS and CBJ for 65. Euros. That's like 429 RMB which is same or less than BJ lu is for massage and HJ (with tip (389-489).

Thanks but I'm good see other board for post.

Monger friends,

Here's my story, finally!

Been in the Shanghai scene for last 6 years I have enjoyed much of the BBS's, sauna's and pickups and stories from fellow mongers.

So far the greatest have been Judy's & Manhattan's. Great selection of nationalities!

I have found best, so far, Viet with long black hair from Hanoi last year November. She literally rolled over me. I was not able to escape from her eyes, whilst she pinpointed me at the entrance in Manhattan.

I could not resist her offer and off we go. On the way to J. W. Marriott we started to suck each other in the cab. As she knew the cab driver, it was perfectly OK to do 69 in the cab. Her **** was clean, trimmed and easy to lick. How great she responded. I was a bit scared somebody will figure out, but I could not resist the intense.

We put the condom over big bro in the cab and asked driver to have another round in French concession and stop to silent alley. We did couple of minutes in VW Touran against passenger seat and decided to head to the hotel for more relaxed fucking. It did not last long until fucking in the room against mirror her hands supporting while I increasing rpm's from behind. I asked her if she is OK for CIM but unfortunately not. I decided to accept that and go for cowgirl. Nice see rack was bouncing on front of me, so it was great to control speed by gently squeezing boobies and pushing my johnnie against her and deep.

Being a bit exhibitionist. I wanted to come by sliding curtains and wishing somebody to see glimpse of the action. I took her next to the window of the hotel room and pushed hard until I removed rubber and exploded on her back.

We did again 3 times that night with similar energy I was surprised how good was that! I was convinced eyes at first sight will be telling you with whom to go with.

Great experience and memories! Wish to get more!

Anybody interested in foursome (2 girls, 2 gals) in Shanghai 18th or 23rd April? Other times also possible.

Interested to have fun in Manhattans or Judy's and then go hotel together. Maybe swap girls.

PM me for fun.

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[QUOTE=SamCan;1860264]Mongering in Amsterdam this week and doing quite well. It's kind of a long drive from here for am HJ. Besides I've discovered a private house that does FS and CBJ for 65. Euros. That's like 429 RMB which is same or less than BJ lu is for massage and HJ (with tip (389-489).

Thanks but I'm good see other board for post.[/QUOTE]Hi Sam. You might do better to post on the Amsterdam board. Take care! Your friend. Hobbiest1.