American Politics

[QUOTE=JustTK;2742366]It might be difficult to understand to a USAn that suffers from underfunded state education. That's fine. I will go easy on you.

The filibuster. Right, so this is an explanation, a reason why the Dems have got nothing useful done. So your agreeing with me that the Dems have got nothing useful done. So we agree now that they have an appalling track record, especially in modern history? So why does ET bang on in every comment he makes about how superb have been the Dem acheivements?

Well, who knows, at least you and I agree now that the Dems have done nothing useful since 1975.[/QUOTE]LOL. Good one JustTK. You said it best when you said you are arguing with people who are like Evangelicals. That is what these people are. Their version of science is not data based but faith based.

I doubt you will get an answer, but if you do, somehow the Dems not getting anything done since 1975 was Trump's fault.

I still did not know when I hired people I looked up and saw who was president and said, "Oh wait, a Republicans is in office. Better not hire someone yet. " but apparently that is how things really work.

[QUOTE=PVMonger;2742217]Therefore, for the Democrats to pass any type of minimum wage increase, they would need (assuming no Re help) a filibuster-proof majority. Something they last had in 1975.[/QUOTE]Actually, two economists, Gabriel Zucman and Emmanuel Saez, who advise Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren, came up with a way to get it done. It would involve a tax on employers that pay less than some arbitrary amount, say $15 per hour, combined with a tax refund to employees who are paid less than that amount. The effect would be to make the minimum wage $15 for this example. This could get by with 51 votes, a simple majority, if attached to a reconciliation bill.

The last time this was voted on, 8 Democratic Senators voted not to raise the minimum wage. Remember Kyrsten Sinema's infamous "thumbs down. ".

I believe this is something that should be decided at the state and local level. Federal politicians have no business meddling in it. What makes sense for New York City and Seattle, $25 per hour or whatever, would put people out of work in Mississippi.

[QUOTE=JustTK;2742366]It might be difficult to understand to a USAn that suffers from underfunded state education. That's fine. I will go easy on you.

The filibuster. Right, so this is an EXPLANATION, a reason why the Dems have got nothing useful done. So your agreeing with me that the Dems have got nothing useful done. So we agree now that they have an appalling track record, especially in modern history? So why does ET bang on in every comment he makes about how superb have been the Dem acheivements?

Well, who knows, at least you and I agree now that the Dems have done nothing useful since 1975.[/QUOTE]You are the one who said that the Democrats have gotten nothing done since the mid-1970's. I said nothing of the kind. I said that Democrats do share some of the blame.

I am truly sorry that you don't understand how the USA government works but I didn't expect you to. I don't know whether it is your lack of education or whether it is a refusal to do a simple internet search to learn something new. I realize that you feel that all that's necessary is to snap your fingers to make something happen. Donnie the Dumbass thinks that way too.

But the filibuster is a way of life in USA government. Nobody likes it except whomever is in the minority and the Re[pubs have been in the majority a lot. The filibuster has been the reason the QOP has been so successful in the past 60-some-odd years. All they need to do is vote no in the Senate and all useful work stops. Then they can lie and say how the Dems haven't gotten anything done. Case in point is President Biden's infrastructure plan. Lots of the QOP voted against it and they are now touting to the brain-dead people who voted for them how much money they're bringing back home. And their constituents are simply too stupid to know any better.

[QUOTE=Tiny12;2742381]Actually, two economists, Gabriel Zucman and Emmanuel Saez, who advise Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren, came up with a way to get it done. It would involve a tax on employers that pay less than some arbitrary amount, say $15 per hour, combined with a tax refund to employees who are paid less than that amount. The effect would be to make the minimum wage $15 for this example. This could get by with 51 votes, a simple majority, if attached to a reconciliation bill.

The last time this was voted on, 8 Democratic Senators voted not to raise the minimum wage. Remember Kyrsten Sinema's infamous "thumbs down. ".

I believe this is something that should be decided at the state and local level. Federal politicians have no business meddling in it. What makes sense for New York City and Seattle, $25 per hour or whatever, would put people out of work in Mississippi.[/QUOTE]So the only way to do this without the filibuster would be to raise taxes. What have you been smoking to think that the QOP would go along with that?

FYI, the [B]lowest[/B] livable wage state in the USA is Tennessee where $14.38 per hour is considered a "living wage". Somehow, though, the QOP that runs TN would rather keep the minimum wage at $7.25 'cause, you know.

[QUOTE=JustTK;2741869][QUOTE=Spidy;2741690]One more thing on being bored with the postings from the "Dems" BMs, if you are indeed a true "bothsidesist", "neithersideist", "fence walker" or whatever you're calling yourself, it may behoove you ...[/QUOTE]

I am not calling myself any of these terms. These are [b]all silly terms that [u]you folks[/u] have made up[/b] so that you have a label to attack...[/QUOTE]Really us folks?

I imagine at some point, it all just becomes a blur, as to what's real, what is truth or NOT? So allow me to refresh.

LOOK HERE:

[QUOTE=JustTK;2738943]I have no idea what MDS writes. Its like trying to decipher The Riddler. He doesn't seem tloo be able to put a single [b]coherent[/b] sentence together.

You have taken that upon urself by supporting the status quo. "I can't support change, bcos it will never happen" BS.

Bothsiderism. [b]No, [u]I am Neithersiderism[/u].[/b][/QUOTE]AND HERE:

[QUOTE=MarquisdeSade1;2739733] As he said its not bothsiderism, its neithersideism ...[/QUOTE]To his credit, even MDS1 (in one his more [i]"coherent"[/i] posts), pointed out the fact that you called yourself, [b]a person of "neithersideism".[/b]

[QUOTE=JustTK;2741869]I am not calling myself any of these terms...[/QUOTE]Really? From your own posts, that's [b]not true[/b], now is it.

So is it lying? Is it denial? Slip of the tongue? Simple case of forgetfulness or perhaps something in-between, on both sides or is it neither?

So which is it?

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2741942][B]Trump to leave office with the worst jobs record since Herbert Hoover[/B]

[URL]https://fortune.com/2021/01/11/us-economy-jobs-numbers-trump-compared-past-presidents-worst-record-since-hoover/[/URL]

[B]Fact check: Chart of job growth by president shows historic unemployment under Trump[/B]

[URL]https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/11/06/fact-check-pandemic-unaccounted-presidential-job-growth-chart/6177339002/[/URL]

[B]Trumps Final Numbers
Statistical indicators of President Trump's four years in office.[/B]

[URL]https://www.factcheck.org/2021/10/trumps-final-numbers/[/URL]

A sampling of the highlights:

[B]Last Trump Job Approval 34%; Average Is Record-Low 41%[/B]

[URL]https://news.gallup.com/poll/328637/last-trump-job-approval-average-record-low.aspx[/URL][/QUOTE]I'm no fan of Trump. And I'm a huge fan of yours in the Bangkok threads. However I don't believe it makes sense to judge the record of his administration based on the numbers when he left office, almost a year into COVID. The economy was doing nicely, with unemployment levels the lowest since the late 1960's, when COVID hit. And real median household income rose substantially in 2019 for the first time since the Clinton administration. In 2020 dollars, it was $63,292 during 2000, and had only risen to $63,683 during 2016, the last year of the Obama administration. The middle class was just treading water for 16 years. It rose to $69,560 during 2019.

[URL]https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEHOINUSA672N[/URL]

This is noted in your FactCheck link, that average weekly earnings were up 8. 7% during Trump's time in office, adjusted for inflation. Since Biden came into office, they've dropped 4. 2%, after inflation, because increases in the prices of goods and services are outpacing increases in wages. The unemployment level, though, is back to where it was before COVID, although a lot of people have dropped out of the workforce.

And how much of all this, good and bad, is because of Trump and Biden? Well, they didn't cause COVID, aren't dictators who control the legislative branch, and don't have much to do with the business cycle or Fed policy, let alone what's happening in places like China and the Ukraine. So maybe not a lot. But I believe some of the legislation they supported and their executive orders had an effect. I'd give the edge to Trump and the Republicans on that. The corporate tax cuts and deregulation helped the economy and increased the demand for labor. And the poorly timed American Rescue Plan provided too much stimulus and added to inflation, just as post-COVID demand was increasing and supply chain glitches were surfacing.

[QUOTE=Tiny12;2742393]I'm no fan of Trump. And I'm a huge fan of yours in the Bangkok threads. However I don't believe it makes sense to judge the record of his administration based on the numbers when he left office, almost a year into COVID. The economy was doing nicely, with unemployment levels the lowest since the late 1960's, when COVID hit. And real median household income rose substantially in 2019 for the first time since the Clinton administration. In 2020 dollars, it was $63,292 during 2000, and had only risen to $63,683 during 2016, the last year of the Obama administration. The middle class was just treading water for 16 years. It rose to $69,560 during 2019..[/QUOTE]Of course it is fair to judge Trump for what happened in the wake of his disastrous economic decisions, among the most disastrous of them being to defund the CDC and pull all of the Pandemic Prevention and Response teams out of China in 2018 against all expert warnings not to do something so stupid and dangerous:

I have provided dozens of links to the reports of him doing that. Here is but one:

[B]Exclusive: U.S. slashed CDC staff inside China prior to coronavirus outbreak[/B]

[URL]https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-china-cdc-exclusiv/exclusive-u-s-slashed-cdc-staff-inside-china-prior-to-coronavirus-outbreak-idUSKBN21C3N5[/URL]

Followed by his critical year 2020 of self-serving lies that could not have been written better in a script titled. "I Was a Pandemic Producing World Leader."

Do I even need to repost the links for the hundreds of times he lied to the world about what he knew about it, no different than if he had personally intended to convert a regional spread in China into the Trump's Pandemic it became?

And all while he was still working as hard as he could to further defund scientific research, testing and treatment for it.

[B]Trump budget cuts funding for health, science, environment agencies[/B]

[URL]https://www.washingtonpost.com/science/trump-budget-cuts-funding-for-health-science-environment-agencies/2020/02/10/9c8dd784-4c2d-11ea-b721-9f4cdc90bc1c_story.html[/URL]

Meanwhile, his pre Trump's Pandemic economy was only fair, below average compared to what we had under the 11 most recent presidents. Too bad he flushed $2.5+ Trillion down the shitter with his godawful December 2017 Tax Cuts and Jobs Act just to squeak out a below average result prior to his ultimate total crap results by the end of his term.

Which, in book, reduces his pre Trump's Pandemic results from "below average" to "crap" as well.

[B]Data show Trump didn't 'build' a great economy. He inherited it.[/B]

[URL]https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/meet-the-press/data-show-trump-didn-t-build-great-economy-he-inherited-n1237793[/URL]

[B]Don't believe the hype: Trumps economy was plummeting even before the pandemic[/B]

[URL]https://www.salon.com/2020/10/12/dont-believe-the-hype-trumps-economy-was-plummeting-even-before-the-pandemic_partner/[/URL]

[QUOTE=ScatManDoo;2742374]
JustTK: Why do you hold Democrats responsible for the minimum wage falling in purchasing value?[/QUOTE]Bcos the Reps have no intention of raising it. Only the Dems claim to be a party of the people. That's why I hold them responible. Bcos the a party of fake ne-libs. And bcos we have people here that claim the Dems have a great record of achievements for the people.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2742379]LOL. Good one JustTK. You said it best when you said you are arguing with people who are like Evangelicals. That is what these people are. Their version of science is not data based but faith based.

I doubt you will get an answer, but if you do, somehow the Dems not getting anything done since 1975 was Trump's fault.

I still did not know when I hired people I looked up and saw who was president and said, "Oh wait, a Republicans is in office. Better not hire someone yet. " but apparently that is how things really work.[/QUOTE]Right! We both saw it during COVID, when all they could do was claim "science is one our siide, oh the vaxxes, oh masks, oh science. " and then provide no evidence at all. Its exactly the same here.

And your correct again. That's why every time you criticise the Dems. Their answer is whataboutism. What about Trump, he said this, he did that. Instead of dealing with the issue which is their party's performance. Its why Trump continues to be nr one topic here, bcos its the only means the Dems have to defend their abysmal performance. Classic Whataboutism.

[QUOTE=Spidy;2742392]

So is it lying? Is it denial? Slip of the tongue? Simple case of forgetfulness or perhaps something in-between, on both sides or is it neither?

So which is it?[/QUOTE]Its called playing along with your silly games, and inventing a name that fits with YOUR naming style. You folks made up Bothsideerism, so I corrected it to Neithersiderism. If you want to label me, you can call me a transnationalist or anarcho syndicalist. Oh JustTK would be fine.

[QUOTE=Spidy;2742392]Bothsiderism, Neithersiderism or Political Schizophrenia? [/QUOTE]You know, according to your 'your either with us or against us" logic, I am a QAnon Republican supporter. And the same would apply to anyone that supports a third party. Greens, Communists, KKK, whoever. But according to Rep supporters, I would be a leftwing communist nut. And according to the Greens I am an environment destroyer. Surely, even a recipient of PVMs defunded schooling system can see the stupity in this logic.

[QUOTE=Tiny12;2742393]I'm no fan of Trump. And I'm a huge fan of yours in the Bangkok threads. However I don't believe it makes sense to judge the record of his administration based on the numbers when he left office, almost a year into COVID. The economy was doing nicely, with unemployment levels the lowest since the late 1960's, when COVID hit. And real median household income rose substantially in 2019 for the first time since the Clinton administration. In 2020 dollars, it was $63,292 during 2000, and had only risen to $63,683 during 2016, the last year of the Obama administration. The middle class was just treading water for 16 years. It rose to $69,560 during 2019.

[URL]https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEHOINUSA672N[/URL]

This is noted in your FactCheck link, that average weekly earnings were up 8. 7% during Trump's time in office, adjusted for inflation. Since Biden came into office, they've dropped 4. 2%, after inflation, because increases in the prices of goods and services are outpacing increases in wages. The unemployment level, though, is back to where it was before COVID, although a lot of people have dropped out of the workforce..[/QUOTE]Let's not look at Donnie the Dumbass' numbers because of COVID? Really? Had Donnie the Dumbass actually tried to do something about the problem, things might have been different. But he didn't, did he? He lied and lied then lied some more about COVID instead of actually trying to do something about it. He was singularly unprepared to do anything about COVID because the only things on his mind were "can I make money from COVID?" and "how can I use COVID to get reelected?

And you just used the same pro-tRUMP argument, too, with your "And real median household income rose substantially in 2019 for the first time since the Clinton administration. In 2020 dollars, it was $63,292 during 2000, and had only risen to $63,683 during 2016, the last year of the Obama administration. " statement. You don't want to blame Donnie the Dumbass but you blame Obama because he inherited a recession from W and spent most of his first term trying to fix it.

I can see blaming President Biden if the only country in the world suffering from inflation was the USA. But that's not true, is it? Virtually every country in the world is suffering from inflation, aren't they. Some more, some less but most are suffering from inflation. [URL]https://tradingeconomics.com/country-list/inflation-rate[/URL] and [URL]https://www.ft.com/content/088d3368-bb8b-4ff3-9df7-a7680d4d81b2[/URL] among others. There are many causes for inflation. [URL]https://cepr.org/voxeu/columns/understanding-global-rise-inflation[/URL].

Worldwide inflation, post COVID, can be boiled down to the standard inflation cause: too much money chasing too few goods. That's a fact. For example, almost anybody with a functional brain could have predicted a raise in US gasoline prices post COVID by: too much money chasing too few goods. Refineries were shut down during COVID because there was a glut of gasoline. Nobody was driving so demand was down and gasoline prices did what they always do during a period of high supply combined with low demand. They fell. But it is also a fact that most of the supporters of Donnie the Dumbass complained vocally about gasoline prices early on in President Biden's presidency. Now that gasoline prices have fallen for about 90 days in a row, those same complainers haven't uttered word one. I wonder why that it? Because if they blamed President Biden for the high gasoline prices, they'd have to give him credit for the falling prices also. But the complainers on rightwingnut media haven't said boo about gasoline lately so the Moron Brigade doesn't know how to spin it.

[QUOTE=Tiny12;2742393]I'm no fan of Trump. And I'm a huge fan of yours in the Bangkok threads. However I don't believe it makes sense to judge the record of his administration based on the numbers when he left office, almost a year into COVID. The economy was doing nicely, with unemployment levels the lowest since the late 1960's, when COVID hit. [b]And real median household income rose substantially in 2019 for the first time since the Clinton administration. In 2020 dollars, it was $63,292 during 2000, and had only risen to $63,683 during 2016, the last year of the Obama administration. The middle class was just treading water for 16 years. It rose to $69,560 during 2019.[/b]

[URL]https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEHOINUSA672N[/URL]

This is noted in your FactCheck link, that average weekly earnings were up 8. 7% during Trump's time in office, adjusted for inflation. Since Biden came into office, they've dropped 4. 2%, after inflation, because increases in the prices of goods and services are outpacing increases in wages. The unemployment level, though, is back to where it was before COVID, although a lot of people have dropped out of the workforce.

And how much of all this, good and bad, is because of Trump and Biden? Well, they didn't cause COVID, aren't dictators who control the legislative branch, and don't have much to do with the business cycle or Fed policy, let alone what's happening in places like China and the Ukraine. So maybe not a lot. But I believe some of the legislation they supported and their executive orders had an effect. I'd give the edge to Trump and the Republicans on that. The corporate tax cuts and deregulation helped the economy and increased the demand for labor. And the poorly timed American Rescue Plan provided too much stimulus and added to inflation, just as post-COVID demand was increasing and supply chain glitches were surfacing.[/QUOTE]BTW, I assume you noticed in your link the chart shows huge gains in the real median income during the Clinton years AND during the Obama years, following huge declines in it during the presidencies prior to theirs, both Republican administrations, of course. It also shows that a similar decline in that metric was demonstrably NOT what Trump inherited from Obama.

So it is extremely disingenuous to then carve out a praise for Trump's numbers as though he got it there as the result of his policies after inheriting a plummetting trajectory for it from his immediate predecessor the same as Clinton and Obama did.

You know that isn't what happened in Trump's case when that is exactly what happened in Clinton and Obama's case.

Your linked chart shows it.

Trump merely sat in his golf cart and let the real median income continue on the upward trajectory it had been heading for years under Obama, who inherited one of the deepest plunges on the metric of all time.

Then it took a sharp dip again in 2020 when Trump's idiotic economic decisions regarding defunding the CDC going back to 2018 came home to roost along with his nearly year long effort to convert a regional viral spread in China into Trump's Pandemic and all of the economic disasters that followed.

It isn't as though every incoming president begins his economic decision-making, policy agenda and stewardship from the same starting point conditions. Far from it.

And in at least 100 years the incoming conditions have never been worse than for the incoming FDR, Barack Obama and Joe Biden administrations.

LOL. I am sure any incoming Dem administration would have loved to have been greeted with conditions as good as those that greeted Eisenhower, Nixon, Reagan, George W. Bush and Trump.

By stark contrast, NO Repub would have wanted to inherit economic conditions as challenging as those that greeted FDR, JFK / LBJ, Carter, Clinton, Obama and Biden. A Repub would not have had the slighest clue what to do about it except how to make it worse.

As well as the data show the best aspects of the Trump economy was what he inherited from Obama-Biden they also show the worst aspects of Biden's economy is what he inherited from Trump. Which is typical of all incoming Dem vs incoming Repub administrations.

[QUOTE=JustTK;2742550]Right! We both saw it during COVID, when all they could do was claim "science is one our siide, oh the vaxxes, oh masks, oh science. " and then provide no evidence at all. Its exactly the same here.

And your correct again. That's why every time you criticise the Dems. Their answer is whataboutism. What about Trump, he said this, he did that. Instead of dealing with the issue which is their party's performance. Its why Trump continues to be nr one topic here, bcos its the only means the Dems have to defend their abysmal performance. Classic Whataboutism.[/QUOTE]Evangelicalism and Born Again Christianity is based on a faith in something irrational, unseen, unheard, unknown and unprovable.

Dem economic stewardship results vs Repub economic stewardship results are well documented, recorded and easily reviewed and researched in the data kept by non partisan agencies and entities charged with those responsibilities; the National Bureau of Economic Research, the Bureau of Labor Statistics, even the Federal Reserve, to name a few.

For example, Dems having raised the real minimum wage for millions of American workers over the years while Repubs have largely been resisting and obstructing those efforts is not a matter of unproven faith. It is right there in the state and local employment and wage figures and in the Congressional voting records.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2742379]LOL. Good one JustTK. You said it best when you said you are arguing with people who are like Evangelicals. That is what these people are. Their version of science is not data based but faith based.

I doubt you will get an answer, but if you do, somehow the Dems not getting anything done since 1975 was Trump's fault.

I still did not know when I hired people I looked up and saw who was president and said, "Oh wait, a Republicans is in office. Better not hire someone yet. " but apparently that is how things really work.[/QUOTE]So, when COVID was in its infancy, what approach would [B]you[/B] have advocated for? And, unlike your usual posts, back up your arguments with articles from, say January 1, 2020 to April 1, 2020. Any article that definitively said what to do about COVID that has been proven true as of today.

I'll wait but I won't hold my breath.