Kyiv

[QUOTE=LilJoey; 1286942]Here is a report by a newbie indicating it was not easy for him to locate Working Girls at Shooters, let alone take a very hot girl home from that club for $200/2 hours or less money.

There has been no reporting of substance on the topic of scoring with very hot (8 level and above) p4p women in the regular nightclub scene of Places like Shooters and D'lux etc. For low prices of under $200 for 2 or more hours.

There has merely been the bald assertion that it is possible.

There are no action reports substantiating this, or describing in detail how to recognize the WG's in the clubs, and what strategy or tactics to use in approaching them, negotiating services with them, and carefully choosing from among them to select one that will be a GFE experience, rather than a disaster user * who will cheat you and leave. Virtually nothing to help guide newbies in this area has been posted.

And then I read a report like Poker Player's report, and I see that it may not be so easy as claimed.

To Those of you who are proponents of mongering in the regular nightclubs and claim to have successfully done so, and who have recently been in Kiev. You have not served members like Poker Phayer well. You have withheld guidance that is obviously sorely needed. It is not sufficient for you to sit back and say that you can't help newbie mongers who are clueless or who have no game. This is not chasing freebies. We're talking about p4p WG's. If guys like Poker Player are left to fail miserably when going to a regular nightclub, it's the fault of those veterans who are experienced in this area who failed to post the necessary guidance.

Kirsch too, in his recent action report a few pages back reported taking a driver and hitting the regular clubs, with No reported success, and he is not a newbie.

I reserve judgment on the truth of the claim that the prices of hot girls in the regular clubs have come down to $200/2hrs or lower, because I am not in Kiev and will not be for some time, and I will pursue the truth during my next trip in September / October.

But I don't think I am remiss in asking those of you who have been in Kiev and went to the regular nightclubs seeking p4p with very hot girls, to post your action reports, which will enhance this thread.

Otherwise, newbies coming to Kiev will have nothing to expect from the regular nightclubs other than an experience like newbie Poker Player.

With respect,

LJ[/QUOTE]Liljoey,

With all due respect to you for you putting the time and effort into writing the above post.

Why don't you just come up with it, and name names. Re the hotties for US$200.

You know it andi Know it and so does everyone here, it was only Cruiser Bragger who posted that he gets them.

So really you should have addressed the above to him.

He grilled you about Rio, your turn to cross examine his wild High School kind of bragging about his exploits in KIEV.

[QUOTE=LilJoey;1286942]There are no action reports substantiating this, or describing in detail how to recognize the WG's in the clubs, and what strategy or tactics to use in approaching them, negotiating services with them, and carefully choosing from among them to select one that will be a GFE experience, rather than a disaster user ***** who will cheat you and leave. Virtually nothing to help guide newbies in this area has been posted.[/QUOTE]LJ, you forgot to mention INSERT_NAME_OF_UNMENTIONABLE_AND OVER_PRICED_STRP_JOINT. And IF you are ALL of these users, this is quite an elaborate scheme. LOL. I am just teasing you.

I was in Vodka Bar and Shooters and the only thing missing from many wgs was a green sign around the neck stating the price. I did not pursuit these but focused on girls with a red sign that I suspected could become yellow by utilizing some Barba charm. This was at least the plan until I reached the stage where I focused only on the vodka and how good it was to have found new ISG buddies. The "you are my new best friend"-stage that makes us men blush the next day. The next day I, apart from blushing, fucked a girl in my apartment (and her ass) who was on Vodka bar. Far from a 10 when her yellow teeth was turned towards me but I asked and she told me that most girls that where working on Vodka bar would settle for around 100 USD or less, and that I should just go up and talk to them.

So despite my limited experience of Kiev in specific, my tip to you LJ (or the illusive newbies we like to use to motivate whatever we do here) is not try to "recognize them" but to talk to them. All of them, one after another. Smile and ask "are you a girl that like some fun or are you more the conservative type that likes a long term relationship with a man?". I imagine the rest is not so different from how one would go about it in a setting where the need for this this initial differentiator question is eliminated. This is in fact like two different approaches to life. Some salmons stay in the river, others go out in the ocean.

Good luck in exploring new and fun grounds where you do not only hunt lions that are sedated and placed on the savanna the night before you arrive with your sperm-gun. I will visit the unmentionable club some time for sure, so see this post as an attempt to motivate also short term visitors to go about Kiev just like any other city. To talk with a female there is absolutely not harder than any other city. If you are incapable of talking to unsedated females, I suggest you sedate yourself with some vodka instead. Better to get up on the horse a bit drunk, than to walk all your life.

B.

[QUOTE=Cruiser D; 1286877]Climax, you never see rich Ukrainians in Kyiv because you never leave the tourist spots. Not to mention you wouldn't know where find these places.

To the NJ plumber and Jojo. I can only assume English is a second language for both of you, or that at least your reading comprehension is very poor. The last two pages of postings have been meaningless. Keep up the good work.[/QUOTE]I am going to send you one of the Top Pimlico Plumbers in London to fix your leaking Back Pipes to stop the kind if drivel and BS that you started posting here, when you made your reappearnce and opened the Can Of Worms here.

Or do you prefer a Jersey Gas Pipe Fitter?

Rather then reply in a coherent way, you throw personal insults around and punching below the belt, because you have been exposed as lacking in substance. .

I am the first one here to apologize, if I am wrong on something. And I have done it.

But you sre so arrogant with a big bragging mouth, that you think its cool being one.

My first language is SIGN Language, and if we were linked via video (Like Now) , we wouldn't have got lost in translation.

Your contribution on here so far.

1 An Apartment list that you did for Bez like 5 years ago.

2. Now you have 1800 girls on your Android Phone.

3. You got the details of one club wrong, and when you were corrected by other members, you did a runner.

4. You criticize (Me and You) quality of pictures on the photos thread. And when he tells you to post yours, you respond that you respect the Privacy of your girls.

Privacy of your Hookers on the Android's list. Again My Fucking Foot.

That's all. .

I guess Muddy 7 was the one who read you out very well here calling you "A Clown ", so much so that you did another runner from him.

[QUOTE=Climaxnow; 1286868]Just no interest in arguing.

Shitty! I can't get laid here anymore. You and all your countrymen stole all of my fresh off the boat EE girls. Fortunately, I am also an EU citizen and I am seriously thinking about moving to your territory. Maybe soon we can troll together for some nice Polish or Lith girls.[/QUOTE]. Climax Yeah get your Ass over here ASP. WE don't need to troll for Polish Girls in London.

They are like 7/11 Grocery shops on most corners. .

Lithuanians are on the East Side of town. Never mongered there down Muggers Boulevards. Also. Its too risky now, with the cops doing a lot of raids there in the build up to the Olympics.

BTW, Unlike Chicago, in London you can't have a Spagetti at Barbeques.

Isn't it great now to be a Dual Citizen on both sides of the Atlantic.

No need to stand in Long lines waiting to be let in, especially at Heathrow airport.

CD and other Non EU citizens. Can stand there for up to 2 hours waiting to be let in, which is BTW not guaranteed.

Then unlike here, he can't duck any questions thrown at him by a stern UK Border Agency offical. And if they find him too Cocky or evasive, then back on the plane.

Would love to see the Sight then.

It is five years I have already described several detailed reports about everything men need. And I repeat the same things. Men should study methods and experiences by past reports. There is no worst blind person than who doesn't want to see. I understand your mood. Unfortunately there is no better solution: practice bastardy, practice bastardy, practice bastardy.

"at least most guys are into getting BBBJ" it is clear you haven't read any words of my reports.

[QUOTE=LilJoey; 1286828]Perhaps you will finally explain to all your fans on this thread what is involved in such a negotiation? How to do it? What to say? Perhaps describe in detail the conversation and illustrate the approach you use to get to where you want to with the girl? At what point do you see it's of no use and reject the girl? What are signs you look for that indicate to you a girl will be flexible and provide "advanced" services? Give us some details that might be helpful in a negotiation. As many times as you've written about how lame it is to not get full services, you never explained how to do it your way, to get different results. Not that everyone is into everything that you are interested, but at least most guys are into getting BBBJ, and I think that you might have something to say on this point, since the same tactics and approach you use for getting even more advanced services, might help others in knowing how to handle the negotiations better regarding basic GFE services. So how about it? Would you care to explain more about your negotiations tactics and approach, and illustrate with some examples, that could serve as a guide? It would seem that you are one of those mongers best equipped to address this very point.

LJ[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Prosal;1286753]Admittedly I get drunk and post shit of questionable relevancy at times. (wink)[/QUOTE]Your posts even when you are drunk, are much more relevant when compared to a lot of crap info that we have been subjected to lately.

So finally they open the old "new" Mandarin Boat at the River Dnipro. Address for the Taxi driver is Prospekt Moskovasky 32. But this is about 100 meter before the river, so just tell the Taxi driver to drive further and you will see a huge Boat. On the left part of the boat is a disco, when we got there it was quite early but crowded. But not so many nice girls. At the time we left the Strip Club it was really crowded outside and I saw many hotties! Have to check that out another time.

So o the right part of the boat is the Strip Club [url]http://www.mandarin-restaurant.kiev.ua/eng.html[/url]

Prices are the same BUT the kitchen is NOT good. Avoid the food! May be they work on that, the club opened about a couple of days ago. May be this is the reason why there are not many guests. What is very nice beacause on the other hand you have lots of beautiful girls! I saw some familar girls like Nina (Jesus! I want here but she is only doing private dances). Even some waitresses are the same and Mark and Sergey (Managers) work there too. The concept is different to Rio. They have Live Music for every song the girls dance to. About 6 singers, some of them are nice. And in addition every fifth song they have around 8 sexy dancers with coreography. BUT it is way too loud! It's hard to have a conversation, I told already Mark and Sergej but I don't think they change it.

I was there one more time on my own and had a girl sitting at my table and one of the singers. We chatted like hell and it was Monday morning around 3:00 am. All the sudden I noticed that I was the only guest there! Still all the dancers danced, all the waitresses worked and the singers sang. Strange, just for me, one guest. I left with the girl so they could finished work.

It's good right now to go there if you don't like crowded places. May be it changes fast. Who knows. It's about 15 minutes outside of City Center. So here's some advice. Go to Rio, have some drinks there and then you ask a manager that you heard about Manadarin and if they offer a transfer. It worked for us and we got a taxi there for free. But the way back you have to pay for it. So have a Taxinumber with you because the taxi drivers there want something about 100-150 griwna!

I always suffered from waiting until dark to have some action without work. I always were told to go to the massage places but never did. So I tried Salon Dolly.

[url]http://www.salondolly.com/[/url]

Some posts about this place here on the forum, so just a little update.

Another buddy from this forum showed us the place. Coming from Kreshatik you go up Bogdana Khmelnitsgogo and then first street to left into Pushskinskaja Street. About 50 meters on the right side (between 2 restaurants with terrace) you go right through a tunnel in the backyard. Straight into the first house on the 2nd floor (which is 1st floor in Germany).

There were about 4-5 girls form average to cute girls. May be 6-8. Some dark haired some blond. My buddy decided for a short blond one (don't remember the name). He told me she was fantastic. I decided for Nastia! 23 years old, very cute face and an 8 body from Odessa. Her massage was great as well as the happy ending. Called her after this experience about 3 times to my apartment! They charge 350 griwna for 1 hr massage and happy ending. 450 griwna with kissing, but just forget about it, they just kiss your buddy and nothing more. Not worth it in my experience. For outcall it was the same price + 60 griwna for taxi. I was there today and Nastia had a day off so I decided for Olja. The same type of girl. Skinny, cute face and in the beginning of 20. Her massage was not good at all but the finishing even better then from Nastia.

I think it's a good thing to go there before night time.

[QUOTE=Muddy7; 1263222]Cruiser D,

Your IQ must be really low because you still don't get it.

Can a mod ban this clown? It seems he is only here to fight with posters[/QUOTE]Of course CD only repeats his Mantra in response to the above, that Muddy's first language ain't English either.

Being jubilee year in the UK, you should go down on your knees in Front of the British Embassy in DC and thank the Queen and her subjects for the Language that you are speaking now albeit with Few Cock Ups slipping through your tongue.

[QUOTE=Angus Magee; 1263241]Cruiser D is getting awfully close to serial antagonist territory. He may well have some knowledge but mostly just seems to be ragging on others.

AM[/QUOTE]More damning evidene on someone with useless posts.

I told earlier in this forum that I don't believe in Mamba because you have 1 out of 10 with a good experience. So for me (having limited time here) a waste of time. But I want to learn and got some contacts from another buddy here on ISG and I tried to contact them all in 2 days. About half of them answered. As always you have some that answer straight away giving you price and idea where to start with dinner. Some of them seemed not to be so professional so I had to work a little bit with concersation but in the end it was the same. Commercial interest $$$. I met 3 of them for coffee or dinner to check out if there is chemistry to invest between USD 80 for one hour until USD 500 for one night. They were really hot (actually way better in real then on those stupid mamba photos) but not one got my attention. I realized in 12 years beeing in Russia, Ukraine, Letvia, etc. That the girls who speak English are not only professional in their second language. For my taste they are too artificial. So I spent another 2 days in searching for girls looking ONLY for "friendshhip" on mamba. Of course only the nice onces with English skills. I just wrote them that I'm here for business and don't look for sex, just for some nice things like coffee, dinner, walks, etc. Haha. It was funny, in the end the same game but not so obvious. I had some dates, spent some money for lunch, coffee and dinner. And like always they liked the date and want to meet again. So let me say, the same game like with girls in Germany but you have to spend more money. And in the end you don't know if it works out. LOL.

So, no new experience. For me it's only one reason I come here. I do business and spend some additional days for fun. For me places like Rio, Mandarin, Buddha Bar or Deluxe are the right places. And in addition it's the entire package! It's a nice city with nice people and I have found some friends here I have a great time with. All the other mongers looking for cheap quick sex with BEAUTIFUL girls, forget about Kiev! Going to Shooters or Vodka Bar and trying to get a one night stand with an average girl, it's another story. May be it works for some of those men here on ISG beeing VERY attractiv and young. I don't know.

In Germany we have those great FKK Clubs and other things where you can have some great fun not spending so much money. So I repeat myself. It's up to you what you want. But only coming here for that reason it's not worth it.

One story at the end. I have met a girl here one year ago. She is working at a strip club. I won't say which club, it's not RIO. She is really nice and didn't believe me I like her. I spend every time I am here some time with her and she finally falled in love with me. Or whatever it is. I don't pay money anymore and we have a great time. We order pizza from mamamia and she pays for the taxi when we go some where. It's possible but you have to be patiended. She is a beautiful girl, her English is very good, she is not arrogant and doesn't have a voice like Peggy Simpson. She really studied and has a different view on Ukraine like other girls. But 2 cultures crashing togehter. Unfortunately it won't work because we live in 2 different worlds.

[QUOTE=Wallyally;1286995]Do you happen to have her number, Horst?[/QUOTE]Sorry buddy, no number. As the action wasen't that hot I did not ask for her number but I am still pretty sure that she is a girl from club Rio.

Cheers!

[QUOTE=Jojosun; 1287040]Liljoey,

With all due respect to you for you putting the time and effort into writing the above post.

Why don't you just come up with it, and name names. Re the hotties for US$200.

You know it andi Know it and so does everyone here, it was only Cruiser Bragger who posted that he gets them.

So really you should have addressed the above to him.

He grilled you about Rio, your turn to cross examine his wild High School kind of bragging about his exploits in KIEV.[/QUOTE]I don't need to grill anyone. Those who can enhance the thread by giving action reports showing in detail where to go, how to seek out or spot WG's, how to approach, how to speak, what to say, etc. Should do so, because it seems otherwise, newbies cannot easily succeed in the regular nightclubs.

Jojo, my impression of Cruiser D is that, while maybe a bit boastful and ascerbic, he is not a deliberate liar, and therefore I chose to believe him about the prices in the regular nightclubs having gone down to the prices he was quoting of $200/2hrs or less for a 8+ hottie. Yes, I believed Cruiser D despite his unfriendly barbs in the past directed at my style of prose, and his dismissiveness toward the actual contribution I in fact made to this thread during the year 2011 when I began posting, which has received acknowledgement from many members (2011 was a crucial post RP year when guidance was sorely needed and when he and other veterans simply went AWOL and were not posting or responding to newbie questions or contributing at all).

The reason I chose to believe CD is that in this hobby we call mongering and on this forum which is supposed to be a helpful tool to those just getting their feet wet, I prefer to focus on discerning the facts and the truth. So I genuinely want to know what the facts actually are and what prices are possible. So, in part I want to believe him that the prices came down from the ridiculous prices of $500 and $400 I was getting quoted when I visited clubs in 2011, because I would like that to be the case, since it would make things more similar to the previous River Palace days, when P4p costs were more reasonable. And I part I believe him because firstly, it seemed that Hunter Dave regarded Cruiser D as a credible monger, and having met Hunter Dave and trusting him, I would give CD the benefit of the doubt, and accept what he is saying about the true prices, and secondly, Cruiser D is not the ONLY monger to have reported such low prices of $200/2hours or lower being possible in the nightclubs. Remember, there was a report by Me and You and some others, lending the claim credibility as well.

Thirdly, there is a logical inference to be made about the prices. It is based on the history of this debate. In 2011, I had concluded that if you didn't want to waste a lot of time sending home average and even above average mamba girls until a very hot 8+ beauty was accidentally sent to your apartment by the fake picture internet escort agencies, that you have to go to a venue where you can see what the girls look like in advance from the beginning, so you can focus your energies on trying to get the most beautiful girl available for P4P. This meant mongering in nightclubs and strip clubs or shopping malls or the street. There were no shopping malls or streets that I knew of that had a high concentration of Working Girls, so that meant it was best to focus on the nightclubs and strip clubs for p4p.

In the days of River Palace when I was there in 2009 and 2010, it had been possible to get a fairly hot looking girl for $200/2hours if one was good at negotiating and one was prepared to play the waiting game and see if the beauty would come down in her price as the night wore on and the prospects grew thinner. Sometimes it was the guy who caved in because the girl was just too beautiful to lose and the guy went up to $300/2 hours, which was high, but not unbearably so for a really beautiful girl. Sometimes it was the girl who caved in and lowered her price. There were different angles to be played, such as taking numbers so as to meet the next afternoon at discounted rates, or asking for a quicker hour session at a lower price while the night was young, so the girl could get back to RP and still have a whole night there. During this period that a $200/2hrs price was possible, nobody was speaking about going to strip clubs and nobody was reporting going to strip clubs, because prices at strip clubs were higher.

Then the River Palace was towed away toward end of 2010, and it was a true mongering disaster. All of us visiting Kiev at the end of 2010 and beginning of 2011 were thankful for the numbers we had stored in our telephones of RP girls we had liked and fucked on prior visits. And in addition to prior RP girls, I began to put more effort into top-modals. Com and other websites, as well as visit the recommended regular nightclubs looking for the groups of hot WG's that used to frequent the RP, to no avail. I was searching for guidance on where to get really hot p4p girls in Kiev on this thread during the period at the end of 2010 and beginning of 2011, but there was nothing of substance posted.

So I experimented on my own with escort websites, went to nightclubs from time to time and continued to see my old RP girlfriends. Then out of boredom one time I decided to visit a strip club. At the time I actually had no idea that such a thing as "take out" was possible. So I saw a girl I liked and the manager asked if I want her to sit with me. I said yes but the girl didn't speak English So I bought her a drink. Then the manager suggested a private dance, which I did, and it was great. And then we came back to sit at my table and she say there, really pretty and with the biggest smile, but not saying anything. So I asked the manager,"what does she want from me?" His response was,"she wants you to take her home." "Really?" I said."That Is possible?" I asked."Yes, it Is possible for $300." I didn't bite that night, but the next night I returned to the strip club with the intent of finding the best looking dancer I could find and taking her home with me if possible. And so my education began.

Compared to the regular nightclubs where it was difficult to find a high concentration of hot WG's available for p4p in one spot, it was easy to go fishing in the strip club. And the prices too, were lower at the strip club ($300/3hrs) than what the really hot working girls at the nightclubs were asking ($400 and $500 and sometimes negotiable down to $300/2hrs). And so I lamented the loss of all the River Palace girls and the lack of direction in this thread about where to go and how to best monger in the post- River Palace era in my first post entitled something like "where have all the river palace girls gone?".

Then I focused in on figuring out the way to get the best result at the lowest priced venue where you could see the girls in advance, which was the strip club. This premise that the strip club was the lowest priced venue for high level p4p girls that you could see in advance remained unchallenged in 2011. No one was posting different information about prices. Until about March of 2012 when a vehement opposition to the strip club option was espoused. It was claimed that the strip club was not the cheapest venue, and one should not go there and pay more, when the same or better results could be had in the regular nightclubs. This claim is either factually true or false.

But I took note of the vehemence with which it is stated. Why would anyone lie about such a fact when the truth is easy to discover with time. It is this inference that leads me to assume that he is telling the truth about the prices being lower in the nightclubs and it being better to monger in the nightclubs than in the strip club. Why else the vehemence? It doesn't make sense. So my conclusion is that those who are saying that prices for P4p are lower in the regular nightclubs than in the strip club, really believe what they are saying. So I will give them the benefit of the doubt, until I arrive for my next visit and see for myself where the prices are cheaper and which venue makes it easier and more efficient to find what one is looking for.

All of us can puff a little or even exaggerate sometimes to make a point. If he is relying on his 1200 telephone nUmbers in any way to get girls it would. Of be a fair comparison to what a newbie can expect and can achieve, and this will become apparent over time. So the more mongers that go to the regular nightclubs and post action reports the clearer and more detailed a picture we will have. Let the truth be accepted from the one who says it, whoever he may be.

LJ

[QUOTE=AColonizer; 1287132]It is five years I have already described several detailed reports about everything men need. And I repeat the same things. Men should study methods and experiences by past reports. There is no worst blind person than who doesn't want to see. I understand your mood. Unfortunately there is no better solution: practice bastardy, practice bastardy, practice bastardy.

"at least most guys are into getting BBBJ" it is clear you haven't read any words of my reports.[/QUOTE]Acolonizer,

I've read everything you've written this year and last since beginning of 2011. And Of course I know you are interested in far more advanced services than a BBBJ. I thought that was apparent from what I wrote to you. What I was asking you to do was to describe the conversation you have with the girl. You say you did this already. How far back do I have to go? I know your bottom line opinion. I was asking for a play by play negotiation of the sort that could illustrate what to say for newbies. Saying "practice being a bastard" is only a summary. It doesn't show the way. If you haven't posted the more detailed type of report in the past two years, perhaps it's time to go into it in more detail again, or perhaps at least provide links to your older reports that you think are instructive.

I don't disagree to many postings here that the quality at Rio really suffered. For me I like the skinny ones so it was a shame to see what happend there. About 60% of the girls are L or XL (for my eyes). So today I went there just to meet a buddy and Manager Sergey told me to go to the basement because some new girls arrived. And it was nice to see that there were at least 3 new young skinny beautiful ones not having any experience. I asked for Ludmilla come to my table, she speaks some English but not good. I thought she is only doing private dances but as I asked her to come with me to my apartment she sayed yes. Unfortunately I was not able to take her out as I had other things to do. But at least good to know that I saw at least 6 new (nice) girls (the other ones upstairs). Just to let you know.