Seeking Arrangements

I got the keys to my love shack yesterday. I went to the department store to buy beddings, toiletries, etc. As I was setting up my new apartment, I was thinking to myself that this is perhaps one of the craziest and most outlandish things that I have ever done in my life.

Going to use the love shack to meet my two arrangements on a regular basis.

One horrifying discovery, however, is that there is a security guard and also a front desk with workers in my building. It was the first time I realized that so many people worked in the small lobby of this building. And another horrifying discovery is that I cannot buzz people into my building. This is actually the more horrifying discovery. Every decent apartment that I know of in Shanghai has the ability to buzz people into the building. But in my new apartment, I have to fucking go downstairs to let people in. So, it won't take long for the security guards and front desk workers to know that I am only using the apartment to shag women. On the one hand, I am thinking that I should not give a shit what these people think, but on the other hand, I just do not like people knowing my business. And who knows, maybe they report me to the authorities. Maybe I'm fucked.

Biggest problem with these SA girls are getting them to show up for initial dates. Probably 1 in 4 will show up and meet you at a restaurant for a meal, although you make the date. I tell them to text me when they are on the way, or confirm the next day. Very few follow thru.

Second biggest problem are the scam artists that try to get money up front for no pussy. Baby sitters, meet up fees, sob stories. You wade thru 100 profiles and send them messages and get 7 to respond with their phone number. When you try to call them they do not answer. If you meet 1 of 100 that is par for the course.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2491793]I got the keys to my love shack yesterday. I went to the department store to buy beddings, toiletries, etc. As I was setting up my new apartment, I was thinking to myself that this is perhaps one of the craziest and most outlandish things that I have ever done in my life.

Going to use the love shack to meet my two arrangements on a regular basis.

One horrifying discovery, however, is that there is a security guard and also a front desk with workers in my building. It was the first time I realized that so many people worked in the small lobby of this building. And another horrifying discovery is that I cannot buzz people into my building. This is actually the more horrifying discovery. Every decent apartment that I know of in Shanghai has the ability to buzz people into the building. But in my new apartment, I have to fucking go downstairs to let people in. So, it won't take long for the security guards and front desk workers to know that I am only using the apartment to shag women. On the one hand, I am thinking that I should not give a shit what these people think, but on the other hand, I just do not like people knowing my business. And who knows, maybe they report me to the authorities. Maybe I'm fucked.[/QUOTE]You are just thinking too linearly. Just like everything in life, you have to have a plausible story. As for guards and front desk, get to know them. Say a few words and give them small gifts to get them to like you. For example, get them to do you a small favor (I. E. Letting in the girl) and give them a gift as appreciation. That makes it hard for them to rat you out. Is it possible to get a key for the girl? One other trick is to tell them a "friend" is coming to pick up something you forgot that you need for work. Girls can also be disguised as delivery service. The possibilities are endless. Never look guilty.

[QUOTE=Pessimist;2491355]I have very clearly written the race / age / other specs of the girls I seek on SA. No need to repeat I think.

What people assume about the preferences of other guys is their problem. What I find funny around here is that some people do a few sessions in a few cities and assume them are the prices everywhere and for every girl, and in every circumstance. It is a big world, there are millions of members on SA and other sugar dating sites. To assume all arrangements have the same pricing parameters is as dumb as assuming all dinners all over the world cost the same, all clothes, all (whatever good / service) cost the same. One would hope that guys who have been smart enough to accumulate some money to afford these arrangements have more sense than making such absurd assumptions.

We are talking about a service between two specific individuals. Nothing about them is standard. The guy's and girl's looks, behavior, other personal attributes, where they live, what they need and can afford, girl's urgency for money, what they do in the time spent together, etc etc. To assume there is one standard pricing for any of this, or even that the price cannot change with good discussion and negotiation is just foolish in my view.[/QUOTE]My sample size is small since covid has restricted my activities. That is why the more reports here the better. Data eventually reveals a pattern if you know how to evaluate it. I think the problem is between pros and non-pros. In general, pros know the regional price since they see many people and have to be in demand to earn a certain amount. Not much different that brothels and escorts. The non-pro may be clueless, be misled by articles and friends. They may be greedy or just not that willing to go with a stranger. Plus, looks and approach are going to be factors. Thanks to all who are patient and shared details. This link has been a great help. There are just too many duds. Losers, druggies, desperate moms, pic / video sellers. The others have tons of guys chasing them and it is tough to stand out. But this is a game of numbers. That is my observation of limited cities in the US. It seems other countries are much better. EU has fewer losers and druggies. Plus, they are more sex positive and going with an older man is not as much of an issue.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2491792]Yeah, I pretty much agree with you. But this is only after one has become pretty experienced on SA. I started using SA in SF. Took me a while (maybe 3 months) to learn how to get the most out of it, and I was on SA a lot (like 10 hours a week). Then I tried it when I was in Vegas for work. I had to learn some new things, and not just different pricing, but also their different expectations, etc. It took me a month before I finally figured out how to get the most out of the Vegas SA scene. Then I tried it in Portland, and again, same thing, I had to learn some new things, but this time it only took me less than a couple of weeks to figure out the Portland SA scene. And so I was getting faster and better at learning new SA scenes. Eventually, whenever I got another new city, it only took me a few days to get up to speed. So, it got to the point where if I was in a new city, then just like you said, I didn't learn anything new in week 3 that I didn't already know on day 3. However, one caveat is that these were all USA cities. I am sure it will take longer to get up to speed on SA if I were traveling and using it outside of the USA.[/QUOTE]The process of looking up girls, contacting them, negotiations and some price discovery etc work the same in all cities, whether in US or abroad. With more time in a city, you are able to reach out to more girls and have a lot more back and forth discussions and meet more of them and all those other things. He was in Denver for 4 days and met a couple and had sex and if you think that is sufficient to know all there is to know about that city, I will leave you to your view. In my city, just in the 18-28 White girl slim / curvy body group, there are thousands of girls on SA. More than 70% of them login just occasionally. SA is not their full time occupation, they all have jobs and schools and normal life. I send Hello to so many of them and I hear back from a bunch of them back weeks later and sometimes months later. I reply to their reply and takes several days for a 2nd response from them. After some chat on the site, move it to offsite chat, and eventually agree for a lunch or dinner or coffee meet, there is more time taken up. (I never skip dinner to ask for sex in the first meet. Matter of fact, I never even discuss sex in SA or on the phone. Only in person). Even the meets don't always happen as planned on time, some text the morning of the meet and say sorry I need to cancel or postpone. 50% to 70% of the meets eventually move into sex situations but not on the date of dinner itself. In fact my preference is not to have sex on the first date. That is my experience.

When I am on the road, I hit up a few girls, hurriedly try to make plans to meet with any girls who respond back. A lot less choice. So many girls say "oh you are in town this week, I am out / busy this week but can meet next week or the week after blah blah". How do you know how it would have gone with them, what they would have agreed to?

I see a lot of pushback from you guys on the $200 or low $200's pricing. Yes, you come into the city for a few days and hit up a few girls and accept the best offer among the few that you receive then I can see why your prices are consistently in the 300 to 400 or even 500. That's what happens to me when I travel to other US cities. You want better deals, you got to spend the time, learn to enjoy the process, and expand the search to more than few girls or more than a few dozen girls. I have been on road and used SA in many cities as have many of you but in my view, the deals I get or the Intel I have in my city are far better than elsewhere and that's not just because I live in a cheaper city but because here I have time, patience and can wait. If you think time and patience do not add value, again that's your view but not my view.

[QUOTE=NeilGeorge;2491826]Biggest problem with these SA girls are getting them to show up for initial dates. Probably 1 in 4 will show up and meet you at a restaurant for a meal, although you make the date. I tell them to text me when they are on the way, or confirm the next day. Very few follow thru.

Second biggest problem are the scam artists that try to get money up front for no pussy. Baby sitters, meet up fees, sob stories. You wade thru 100 profiles and send them messages and get 7 to respond with their phone number. When you try to call them they do not answer. If you meet 1 of 100 that is par for the course.[/QUOTE]This is accurate. Then there is the other problem which is a time lag. And this is what I have said multiple times.

SA is not that different from a Tinder or other matching sites. The only difference is that there is an explicit expectation of monetary help in exchange for sex / intimacy / date. BTW, Not every dude is after sex on SA. I have heard from sugarbabes that I had sex with who also had past experiences with guys that paid $200 or more for non-sex meets. Amazingly, these girls still gave me sex for similar compensation. Reminds me a bit of FKK WGs who collect 200 Euro from a naive Asian tourist and still provide you with good service for 50.

But the downside of this is that literally anyone can join the site posing as "girl seeking guy". I said this also many times. At least a good percent of "girl seeking guys" may not even be girls, may not be in my home city as they claim. If a "girl" demands 100 just to meet, how do you know it is really a girl and not a guy? S / he never meets you, pockets your 100 and move onto the next fish. They can do it all day long, as long as they are enough gullible horny desperados. For all you know, you might have been exchanging romantic sweet nothings with a pot bellied bald dude in a basement in Chechnia or Ghana. Photos mean nothing, a billion photos can be downloaded off FB and other internet and used as your own. Heck, I can join SA in an instant posing as "girl seeking guy", steal a few Romanian and Ukrainian girl photos, and hit up a lot of guys and pocket some easy money. Quite easy to do.

My rule of thumb, a girl on SA is only a girl after I actually meet her physically. Till then, she is not even a physical person. Could be a bot. And sex is on only when she is in the room and has taken off her clothes. I literally had girls who agreed to terms, came to my room, made out some while still in clothes than refused to actually have sex saying that there was some misunderstanding or some other bullshit excuse. One girl once let me lick her tits and then feigned innocence and claimed she does not do sex and another girl made out with tons of kissing and then said that is all she will let me do. I could not say anything to them because I never discuss explicit sexual acts prior to the room out of caution. Just something like "OK, let us meet at this hotel tomorrow" and with the idea that the girl knows what we are going to do. What can you say to a girl who comes to your hotel room at 8PM, lies down on the bed with you for 20 minutes with heavy petting and kissing and even fondling of tits with my hands squeezing her butt (may be still clothed) and then she says to me "I am sorry, who does sex? I am not a hooker; mutual benefits mean only some kissing"?

But the thing you have in your favor is time and patience. And over time, you collect contacts of enough number of reliable girls. In my experience, once a girl had sex with you, she will always trust you in future meets. She just relaxes around you. So, you can hit her up even after a year during which you never spoke to each other and she is still likely to respond back and at least listen to what you have to say. Plus there is no need for fresh negotiation.

The other thing is that girls change their minds. I had many girls who flat out rejected me or showed no interest in my proposals and then changed their minds a few months later. Just because a girl said does not mean it is a permanent NO, nor is it personal. When a girl says no, I wish her well and kinda keep the bridge intact. Their circumstances change. Perhaps her finances are OK now but she is broke 6 months from now. She is more open to hearing you out. Also she knows from the past you did not insult her when you said no, were polite, have been on the site long enough which makes you reliable in her eyes. These are attributes girls prize very much.

Sometimes they take months to respond. I received a reply to my initial message from a girl in Chicago 9 months after I sent a Hello to her. So, before I traveled to Chicago I sent her "Hey, I am xyz, in your town next week, love to get to know, please let me know if you want to meet up for a dinner or drink yadda yadda". She literally responded back 9 months later with "hey, just seeing this message, when are you in town"! Seriously? I mean, in that 9 months period, I visited Chicago 2 more times. But I was polite and said "well, I was in your town a while ago and may visit again, let us meet up then for a drink, BTW, here is my number".

In essence, I look at SA as a way of building my rolodex. And girls that you have been able to meet are golden. You know she is real, she will meet and you know how she really looks like in person and not in photos. Hang onto those girls and their contact #s. She might not agree to your proposal and price now, but she may change her views later on. I feel that just like in a casino the house is always favored in the long run, in this type of situation, the guy has the upper hand. Sooner or later, the girl loses her money and is back in a tough situation and will be scrambling around who can help her. With patience, you can take advantage of those situations and be ready when she is.

[QUOTE=Pessimist;2491969]This is accurate.

My rule of thumb, a girl on SA is only a girl after I actually meet her physically. Till then, she is not even a physical person. Could be a bot. And sex is on only when she is in the room and has taken off her clothes. I literally had girls who agreed to terms, came to my room, made out some while still in clothes than refused to actually have sex saying that there was some misunderstanding or some other bullshit excuse. One girl once let me lick her tits and then feigned innocence and claimed she does not do sex and another girl made out with tons of kissing and then said that is all she will let me do. I could not say anything to them because I never discuss explicit sexual acts prior to the room out of caution. Just something like "OK, let us meet at this hotel tomorrow" and with the idea that the girl knows what we are going to do. What can you say to a girl who comes to your hotel room at 8PM, lies down on the bed with you for 20 minutes with heavy petting and kissing and even fondling of tits with my hands squeezing her butt (may be still clothed) and then she says to me "I am sorry, who does sex? I am not a hooker; mutual benefits mean only some kissing"?

But the thing you have in your favor is time and patience. And over time, you collect contacts of enough number of reliable girls. In my experience, once a girl had sex with you, she will always trust you in future meets. She just relaxes around you. So, you can hit her up even after a year during which you never spoke to each other and she is still likely to respond back and at least listen to what you have to say. Plus there is no need for fresh negotiation..[/QUOTE]I take it that money never changes hands until the end. What do you do if the girl asks for money up front? This is the classic hooker scam. After the money changes hands, she says she is just there to talk. That is always the problem in the US. We are always dancing around the law and trust is not easy to achieve. It is a risk for the girl if you have sex and then refuse to pay, but it is also a risk for you if you pay / promise anything up front.

Hey Pessimist,

When you have dinner dates with no expectation of sex are you offering the girls any compensation for the initial intro dinner / meet? Just curious how you approach it. Thanks.

[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2492262]Hey Pessimist,

When you have dinner dates with no expectation of sex are you offering the girls any compensation for the initial intro dinner / meet? Just curious how you approach it. Thanks.[/QUOTE]If we agree to meet for dinner to see if we have chemistry before agreeing to head to the hotel, I usually agree to pay for dinner and maybe some money for uber / taxi but no real cash unless we actually have sex. I make it perfectly clear that there is no money if there is no honey. Only once has a woman that actually shows up for dinner (and that's its own problem) has elected not to head to the room.

Akibono -.

You are right, I have mostly given money after the deed. For the obvious (2nd) reason you mentioned and not necessarily because they take the money and then fly the scene. Thankfully that has never happened to me. (I wonder what a guy should / would do if you give the money to her before sex and she pockets it and tries to run out? Do you block her? Make a ruckus? It is a lose / lose proposition. I hope it never happens to me). I did give the money upfront on a max of 2 or 3 occasions because the girl insisted, I caved in, and all those situations were when I was on the road and not in my home city; and I regretted every single instance (not because anything bad happened, but it is just a risky gambit, giving the money first; as it could be an entrapment. I know Mongerer88 thinks entrapment is very rare or never happens but I don't want to be the one guy that has the bad luck). Lucky for me, I am still free enough to type this. I always kicked myself and promised "I will never do it again". Hope I have the sense to stay with that conviction.

One way I protect myself is not discussing sex / even FWB explicitly in any message / chat. Some girls themselves bring up sex: such as "hey handsome, what are you seeking?" "just to get to know you babe, HBU?" "well, NSA, I am down to fuck". At that point, I typically block them. Sometimes it pains me because the girl may be superhot, I obviously do want to fuck. But any explicit mention of sex, I just hang up the conversation. Can't afford to take the risk.

WyattEarp. No, I never pay for drink / dinner date. I say in my message "I do like to help out and most definitely do give an allowance, but the first meet and greet is for both of our benefit and I do NOT give anything for this meet. If that is not OK, we can stop right here". More than a small percentage drop out right there. That is just fine with me.

I typically cast a wide net precisely because I am so strict in all these things: not paying up too much, no upfront money for dinner dates, etc. The success rate is typically low. But I enjoy the process, enjoy the dialog with the girls. I am quite positive that my success rate will go up if I was paying up 400. But as I said, over time I build up a good rolodexof contacts. I still have 6 to 10 girls now who are still open to meets, although I discontinued my SA subscription now due to Covid. Just to be clear, I have given up to 300 in my city (in case people think I never give more than 200). But more than 300 is a no / no unless the girl is super foxy. Also, sometimes it could be even less. One Latina girl, just 20, went out on 3 lunch dates with me and twice we went to movies. That theater had reclining chairs, almost like flat beds. We stretched out and made out most of the movie with lots of rubbing, it was a teenager dream. I was super horny. Felt much better than most of my sex sessions. Finally we did have sex and she said give me 150, and I was like what!; so I gave her 180. Later I regretted, I was being a cheap bastard, and she went out 4 times including the sex date. That was one of my last meets before Covid brought everything to a sad halt. Latinas are not my type normally but she was nice looking and skinny and somewhat shy and quite innocent; those movie makeouts will stay with me for a while.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2491793] I have to fucking go downstairs to let people in. So, it won't take long for the security guards and front desk workers to know that I am only using the apartment to shag women. On the one hand, I am thinking that I should not give a shit what these people think, but on the other hand, I just do not like people knowing my business.[/QUOTE]Your business? You mean providing English language tuition. I just assume these people are coming for English language classes each week. Maybe accidentally dropping a few flyers might be helpful also.

[QUOTE=Pessimist;2491969]
In essence, I look at SA as a way of building my rolodex. And girls that you have been able to meet are golden. You know she is real, she will meet and you know how she really looks like in person and not in photos. Hang onto those girls and their contact #s. She might not agree to your proposal and price now, but she may change her views later on. I feel that just like in a casino the house is always favored in the long run, in this type of situation, the guy has the upper hand. Sooner or later, the girl loses her money and is back in a tough situation and will be scrambling around who can help her. With patience, you can take advantage of those situations and be ready when she is.[/QUOTE]Amen to that. I feel the same. It's all about building a rolodex. After you have met her, banged her, and had a good time, the meet ups do become easier and more relaxed. Some of these chicks try to get away with murder. I had a girl about 1 hour outside of London that I was chatting up. We moved over to whatsapp and things were actually going smooth. I told her that I would be in town in a few days and asked when she wanted to meet. Her reaction was one of surprise that I actually expected to meet her. We discussed helping her out with some cash for an application or something. She wanted me to send the money to her without ever meeting. I bailed and made it very clear with future SBs that I expect intimacy as part of our arrangement. I can only imagine how pissed I would be if an SB said that kissing is where is stops. My rule is not ot hand over the cash until the deed is done.

Because of the legal nature of pay for play in the US, I actually don't like the environment here and prefer the EU environment both for regular escorts and SA. Asia makes me curious, but I haven't heard any overwhelming positives or glowing reviews that would warrant a trip.

02.

[QUOTE=LshRoomer;2492376]Asia makes me curious, but I haven't heard any overwhelming positives or glowing reviews that would warrant a trip.

02.[/QUOTE]You are joking? Check the Philippines and Indonesia forums on this site. I cannot wait to get back to banging beauties.

[QUOTE=LshRoomer;2492376]Asia makes me curious, but I haven't heard any overwhelming positives or glowing reviews that would warrant a trip.

[/QUOTE]I agree with Brizlad. Asia should be on every monger's bucket list. In addition to what Brizlad recommended, I would add Thailand. Places like Singapore, China, and HK are going downhill with respect to mongering, IMHO, but they are still decent. And places like Japan and Korea are still pretty strong for our hobby.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2492758]I agree with Brizlad. Asia should be on every monger's bucket list. In addition to what Brizlad recommended, I would add Thailand. Places like Singapore, China, and HK are going downhill with respect to mongering, IMHO, but they are still decent. And places like Japan and Korea are still pretty strong for our hobby.[/QUOTE]I agree. I think Thailand should be first on the list for first timer. It has more varieties, food, accommodation, more things to see and do. You can get around town by subway, moto, taxi, and boat. Pretty much everything is in walking distance if you don't mind walking.