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[QUOTE=Amavida;1945309]I have been very concerned about some of the recent posts in the AC thread endorsing this 'all the women are for sale' mentality. I wish you could cross post it over there mate. I'm glad your friend escaped unharmed. Imagine her reaction next time a foreigner flashes her a smile?[/QUOTE]These rejects usually end up in Angeles City where candy for hire is much more prevalent.
OK, here is my list of why I love / hate the Philippines. Please feel free to disagree;.
Love: Low prices, warm weather, cute girls all over, some amazing beautiful places (Puerto Galera for one.), everybody speak English, happy smiling people, respect for the elderly, love kids and respect family, easy going, talented musicians everywhere, fun loving, mostly honest people, caring (best nurses in the world? The new President (bad mouthed, but seems he is serious about getting rid of drugs and corruption).
Hate: Manila (dirty, noisy.), jealous people, tricycles, jeepnees (please can somebody ban these monsters.), slow wi-fi, crap food compared to Thailand and Vietnam (fast food chains like Jollybee is VERY bad), singing everywhere (karaoke), their habit of lying with a straight face, street vendors, beggars, bad roads, traffic, slow service (check-in or check-out of hotels as an example), signing papers everywhere. Even bar bills (wtf? "the white guy always pay" - so your girl will gather lots of family and friends for meals, crap standards. Things tend to fall apart, burn outs, typhoons (hard to avoid in these waters), added cost for use of bank cards, crime, the "filthy rich" (they say 10 families control 90% of private wealth in the Philippines), lack of basic healthcare for everyone.
[QUOTE=Aviator12;1948707]OK, here is my list of why I love / hate the Philippines. Please feel free to disagree;.
Hate: Manila (dirty, noisy.), jealous people, tricycles, jeepnees (please can somebody ban these monsters.), slow wi-fi, crap food compared to Thailand and Vietnam (fast food chains like Jollybee is VERY bad), singing everywhere (karaoke), their habit of lying with a straight face, street vendors, beggars, bad roads, traffic, slow service (check-in or check-out of hotels as an example), signing papers everywhere. Even bar bills (wtf? "the white guy always pay" - so your girl will gather lots of family and friends for meals, crap standards. Things tend to fall apart, burn outs, typhoons (hard to avoid in these waters), added cost for use of bank cards, crime, the "filthy rich" (they say 10 families control 90% of private wealth in the Philippines), lack of basic healthcare for everyone.[/QUOTE]You should have crossed Manila and put Philippines overall. PI has been around for about 120 years, more than any SEA country but has the worst infrastructure of any other SEA country. The political system is based on the USA system. It does not work in USA, how can it work in PI? President is there for 6 yeas and every 6 years, it's start all over. There is no long term planning. No 5, 10 year planning that carries over. Every politician is there for themselves and how much they can make. No projects can happen unless the politician's payback markups are agreed. Why has not the Manila airport been rebuilt? The companies could not agree to the demands of the Presidents and other politicians. The Casino that is being built in Manila had to pay US 10 million to the politicians. Until the political system changes, there is just NO hope for change in PI.
Hi everyone,
I am currently looking at the Phillipines for a possible trip and had a number of questions from more experienced goers:
In part I was considering going to see Angeles city for the 2 weeks I can get off. Are there other places worth going to see? Is Cebu worth the trip? Is the best course of action to skip Manila on arrival and go straight to Angeles? How far is it?
I've just come back from Pattaya and am curious how Angeles City or the rest of the Phillipines compares? How they're different in broadstrokes? Are the Gogo Bars similar? How readily available are the women here? What are the price ranges?
How big is Angeles City and is it walkable?
How is the safety situation now with the new president and his antidrug campaign?
Thank you for any clarification on these points.
[QUOTE=Lanthano;1949000]Hi everyone,
I am currently looking at the Phillipines for a possible trip and had a number of questions from more experienced goers:
In part I was considering going to see Angeles city for the 2 weeks I can get off. Are there other places worth going to see? Is Cebu worth the trip? Is the best course of action to skip Manila on arrival and go straight to Angeles? How far is it?
I've just come back from Pattaya and am curious how Angeles City or the rest of the Phillipines compares? How they're different in broadstrokes? Are the Gogo Bars similar? How readily available are the women here? What are the price ranges?
How big is Angeles City and is it walkable?
How is the safety situation now with the new president and his antidrug campaign?
Thank you for any clarification on these points.[/QUOTE]Thanks and welcome to Philippines forum. Filipinas are very friendly and considerate, very caring and offer everything you expect and often more.
Likewise, the contributors to this forum are also friendly, considerate and helpful.
You will find answers to all of your questions in the Forum. Reading the threads will give you a much better feel and knowledge for the place.
As a guide to how addictive they are...my first trip was 2 days...now I take three weeks per trip.
BD.
The pollution of urban waterways is one of the saddest things I see in the Philippines. I might disagree with your listing of tricycle. Yes, they are noisy, but they are also convenient and cheap. The exception would by the trikes of AC. They have one of the smallest trike designs in the Philippines and have set up a cartel to squeeze as much money as possible out of passengers. Add to that, certain members of their ilk will constantly shout "TRIKE" at every non-Filipino passerby.
[QUOTE=Aviator12;1948707]OK, here is my list of why I love / hate the Philippines. Please feel free to disagree;.
Love: Low prices, warm weather, cute girls all over, some amazing beautiful places (Puerto Galera for one.), everybody speak English, happy smiling people, respect for the elderly, love kids and respect family, easy going, talented musicians everywhere, fun loving, mostly honest people, caring (best nurses in the world? The new President (bad mouthed, but seems he is serious about getting rid of drugs and corruption).
Hate: Manila (dirty, noisy.), jealous people, tricycles, jeepnees (please can somebody ban these monsters.), slow wi-fi, crap food compared to Thailand and Vietnam (fast food chains like Jollybee is VERY bad), singing everywhere (karaoke), their habit of lying with a straight face, street vendors, beggars, bad roads, traffic, slow service (check-in or check-out of hotels as an example), signing papers everywhere. Even bar bills (wtf? "the white guy always pay" - so your girl will gather lots of family and friends for meals, crap standards. Things tend to fall apart, burn outs, typhoons (hard to avoid in these waters), added cost for use of bank cards, crime, the "filthy rich" (they say 10 families control 90% of private wealth in the Philippines), lack of basic healthcare for everyone.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=LifeIsABeach;1948735]No projects can happen unless the politician's payback markups are agreed. Why has not the Manila airport been rebuilt? The companies could not agree to the demands of the Presidents and other politicians. The Casino that is being built in Manila had to pay US 10 million to the politicians. Until the political system changes, there is just NO hope for change in PI.[/QUOTE]The total bribes for the Casino were USD $40 million, not $10 million, filtered down from the President.
In general economy has improved for many people. According to the many girls I enjoyed who has regular jobs. They still live in shanties but more and more people are upward mobile. For a high school graduated girl she can get a job in factory earning 6000 to 10,000 depending on the company, overtime etc. Some girls said they are asked to work overtime but did not get paid extra. Complaining does not help. All work in contract jobs unless employed by the government which is a permanent job. Even these jobs are sometimes outsourced to companies which means contract.
Nowadays malls hire only college educated girls at least two years of college including fast food joints. They make around 8000 per month on an average. IT girls make 12000 to 16000 but their hours are graveyard hours.
How do these girls survive? They are not the saving type for a rainy day. There is good support structure from family, extended family, friends etc. When in need they all help. One girl I met stays at her friends house with no complaints. Sometimes she helps with the groceries but does not pay rent. Phi people are family loving whether their own or otherwise.
On the other hand DIA girls do not jump into bed like before to make money. It takes more effort nowadays. There are quite a few marriages taking place with foreigners. Problem is people who are already married in their own country are marrying here. They make regular visits and support wife and kids if any. I heard only people who are taking their wives to their countries are real old guys who need companionship, help etc. It has become quite common girls say. Some girls are quite happy because they are supported and have foreign babies even though there is no chance for the children to get into fathers country. There are instances where this gravy train suddenly stops forcing the girl into prostitution to support the kids. Almost all the girls tell me they know a cousin, aunt etc married to a foreigner. When I ask which country they go to they say they are still here. One girl said her aunt is married to a very old foreigner and lives in Osaka. She has one kid and the kid rarely comes to Philippines.
I guess when you are desperate you will grab any straw.
This is my take talking to girls. Others who live here may have a different opinion.
[QUOTE=Sammon;1949944] I heard only people who are taking their wives to their countries are real old guys who need companionship, help etc. It has become quite common girls say. Some girls are quite happy because they are supported and have foreign babies even though there is no chance for the children to get into fathers country. There are instances where this gravy train suddenly stops forcing the girl into prostitution to support the kids. Almost all the girls tell me they know a cousin, aunt etc married to a foreigner. When I ask which country they go to they say they are still here. One girl said her aunt is married to a very old foreigner and lives in Osaka. She has one kid and the kid rarely comes to Philippines. [/QUOTE]No disagreement Samm.
Just about every permutation is possible with the filipina / foreigner situation, including happy / sad outcomes.
The words from the classic rock ballad "Khe Sanh" by the Aussie icons "Cold Chisel" just popped into my head (linked to Vietnam but relevant to all of SE Asia).
And she was like so many more from that time on.
Their lives were all so empty, 'til they found their chosen one.
And their legs were often open.
But their minds were always closed.
And their hearts were held in fast suburban chains.
Pretty accurate IMHO.
[QUOTE=RedKilt;1950054]No disagreement Samm.
Just about every permutation is possible with the filipina / foreigner situation, including happy / sad outcomes.
The words from the classic rock ballad "Khe Sanh" by the Aussie icons "Cold Chisel" just popped into my head (linked to Vietnam but relevant to all of SE Asia).
And she was like so many more from that time on.
Their lives were all so empty, 'til they found their chosen one.
And their legs were often open.
But their minds were always closed.
And their hearts were held in fast suburban chains.
Pretty accurate IMHO.[/QUOTE]RK, I was going to take this in the direction of factual description, but you took in the direction of emotional verity. And dead-on accurate. Very moving, and very true.
Sammon, if I may offer some anecdotes in reply.
Thing about needing a college degree to work in a mall 100% verified. Note a four year degree usually, in order to alternately stare into space vacantly, and work a cash register. Granted the grade school system only went up to 10 until of late, but I remember clearly doing this job in the USA At age 16 on account of why the fuck would anyone but a non-hs-graduate do it. Not sure what else to say about that, except graduating "college" with a "business major" in order to type in the unscannable barcodes in the supermarket seems like a bit of overkill, or maybe not.
Have a friend, an ex, who's 17-year old daughter is going to "college" for "tourism" whatever that is. She (the daughter) and her classmate spent the last week constructing a garbage can out of used plastic bottles as their most urgent class project. No I am not making this up. I'm not sure what the point of this "school project" is, how it relates to "tourism," or what that says about what is taught in "college" here, but it can't be good. Perhaps the 4-year graduate working the cash registers is appropriate.
My perception is also that the general level of the poor seems to be on the uptrend, although I have only been here for five years so it's merely an impression.
About family:
Yes these girls and everyone at their income level here have strong family ties. I think it is a somewhat fanciful to ascribe that to loving their families. IMO, It's more of a survival tactic. All resources are shared, within the local "tribe. " Questioning this can get you banned from the tribe, which is a serious survival threat. It's not love, it's fear. Very irritating when you but a girl a nice dress or a pair of shoes and they are immediately "borrowed" by a relative. But that's the reality. If they get ANYTHING they are expected to share it. The alternative is repercussions ranging from future not-getting-shared-with, to active hate / sabotage / disavowal.
Ex: I used to go with a girl with a foreign husband, one day I was asking her why did you give all that money to your sister? She replied that it was so the sister would not rat us out to the husband. This is typical. I stopped seeing her as I don't like being an expense. But the point is, Flips will fuck each other up / hold eachother hostage to vulnerabilities / generally screw anyone they can, if not for profit than just for spite / crab mentality.
Families are a survival mechanism. Bucking the mechanism invites retaliation. The result is the same but let's not delude ourselves concerning the motive. The level of life here, among the non-elite, is basically like those fucking stupid teledramaas; but worse, and real.
Last anecdotes: I know a lovely Pinay with an Aussie husband who never visits, the expectation is that she will basically be a caregiver at the end of his obese life when he retires in a few. Typical of what you said. She stays here and gets remittances, eventually she will go there and change his [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord131][CodeWord131][/url] or whatever, and inherit when he kicks off. They both seem completely satisfied with this arrangement.
On the other hand, I have a younger male friend in the U. S. (in his early thirties) who I introduced to the magic of the Philippines, who has visited here exactly once and is now engaged to a woman who is apparently his true love, "the one". In my estimation, because no woman in the States will fuck him, because he is not rich, in his thirties, and slightly overweight. This is his paradise and he fully intends to import her to the USA and live in ultra-satisfaction with a wife that would be way out of his league in the "first" world, forever. So things are… varied.
Disclaimer: this post was intended to prove nothing just exchanging experiences.
[QUOTE=RedKilt;1950054]
And their legs were often open.
But their minds were always closed.
And their hearts were held in fast suburban chains.
[/QUOTE]I always knew you were a soppy old romantic RK!
[QUOTE=Sammon;1949944]For a high school graduated girl she can get a job in factory earning 6000 to 10,000 depending on the company, overtime etc. Some girls said they are asked to work overtime but did not get paid extra. Complaining does not help. All work in contract jobs unless employed by the government which is a permanent job. Even these jobs are sometimes outsourced to companies which means contract.
Nowadays malls hire only college educated girls at least two years of college including fast food joints. They make around 8000 per month on an average. IT girls make 12000 to 16000 but their hours are graveyard hours.[/QUOTE]I do not know shit about labor and wages in the PI, but one of my girls works in a call center. She makes 20 k per month minus 32% tax and other government contributions such as SOCIAL security philhealth and PAG IBIG housing. She works during the daytime but was once transfered to graveyard on very short notice.
I have another girl that works at the Supreme Court. She works a lot of free overtime (even on days off) doing extra duties with a promotion carrot dangled in front of her. Everytime I ask when she is going to get the promotion she says that she does not know and just has to be patient. I just can not wrap my mind around working for a government or big company for free like that.
[QUOTE=RollAides;1950135]Have a friend, an ex, who's 17-year old daughter is going to "college" for "tourism" whatever that is. She (the daughter) and her classmate spent the last week constructing a garbage can out of used plastic bottles as their most urgent class project. No I am not making this up. I'm not sure what the point of this "school project" is, how it relates to "tourism," or what that says about what is taught in "college" here, but it can't be good. Perhaps the 4-year graduate working the cash registers is appropriate.
But the point is, Flips will fuck each other up / hold eachother hostage to vulnerabilities / generally screw anyone they can, if not for profit than just for spite / crab mentality.
Families are a survival mechanism. Bucking the mechanism invites retaliation. The result is the same but let's not delude ourselves concerning the motive. The level of life here, among the non-elite, is basically like those fucking stupid teledramaas; but worse, and real...[/QUOTE]Good observations RA.
The tourism degree IMHO is useless and am sure RK is better placed to more intellect around this and the K12 argument many had that the country need not introduce it (but I think it has).
One of my pinyas was told to take photos in Sinulog (Cebu) for her final assignment (graded) for tourism. Some had to take a trip to HK not to see the Peak etc but the professors went to Disney! I saw the schedule and told her to complain. Was told to be quiet or be 'failed'. Madness.
I have always said they will rat etc on each other, jealousy is of the reasons (and some think that equals love). Jealousy is part of their make up and "if I can't have you can't either and I will do my best to make sure you don't enjoy" attitude of many pinays is very destructive (chismis als). Look at how they use Facebook?
As for the US guy, he will likely find his pinay finds more sausages than his once in USA. Many do.
[QUOTE=MrEnternational;1950188]I do not know shit about labor and wages in the PI, SNIP
I have another girl that works at the Supreme Court. She works a lot of free overtime (even on days off) doing extra duties with a promotion carrot dangled in front of her. Everytime I ask when she is going to get the promotion she says that she does not know and just has to be patient. I just can not wrap my mind around working for a government or big company for free like that.[/QUOTE]In the same vein, one of my provincial girls took a job in her hometown last December at the local city hall. She sits just outside the barangay official's door at a table, asking anyone who approaches what his / her biz is, then directing them into (or away from) the politician's door. She has no other duty. Its a full day's work (sitting, doing mostly nothing), 5 days / week. Her daily pay is set in stone (I think she said p85/ day, or thereabout). Her 1-tryke then 1-jeep ride each way is p14 (28 round-trip), and she must bring (or buy) her own lunch daily (she skips lunch, as she can't afford it).
Kicker: Her pay is dependent upon her having a bank account and a local bank card (like a debit card). She doesn't have that. They refuse to pay in cash. Since she doesn't have the bank card, she has never been paid anything. The politician promises to pay her in full as soon as she gets the bank card. She's been working 9 months with no pay. Its unfathomable how anyone would consider doing this, but she seems to have no qualms. Where she comes up with the p140/ week for transport fare is also unknown to me. Amazing. She's an absolute sex fiend, wanting sex 4-5-6 times everyday (I dare say that if I had one of you good horny gents with me and her in a hotel room, she'd wear us both down to a nub in 24 hours, and she'd be wanting more), and her skinny pretty ass has been posted a number of times in the PG. There she is, one of the prettier and horniest women on earth, working for nada.
[QUOTE=WestCoast1;1950218]
Kicker: Her pay is dependent upon her having a bank account and a local bank card (like a debit card). She doesn't have that. [/QUOTE]I recall reading only 1/3 of the people here have bank accounts. And the rest? Not enough money to open an account - it's usually p1000, but I think Maybank is p500. And if they have the money they don't have the IDs. Too often they don't even own the acceptable footwear that permits them into a government office to get an ID.
I posted an account of a girl who worked at a call centre. Fortunately she was being paid. With the assistance of BDO bank her employer, Convergys, had an arrangement that accounts could be opened for its employees for the direct deposit of pay. The bizarre thing about this account is that no one else could deposit money into it, including the girl herself. She could withdraw funds from an ATM. This is what I wrote then:
[QUOTE] A lot of workers don't have their own personal bank account (why???). Employers prefer direct deposit, and it's safe for the employee, so BDO created a special account that is in the employee's name, from which the employee can draw funds. Seems like a savings account. Ooops, spoke too soon. The employee is not allowed to deposit money into the account. Why? No one at BDO could answer that. "Your bank doesn't like money?" Silence. When an employee leaves her job the company ought to deposit the final pay packet into the account. For a bizarre reason some companies prefer to cut a cheque instead. See where this is going? The employee can't deposit the cheque. I guess that cheque is an eff you to the former employee. Does BDO make it possible for a person to convert the account to a savings account? Keep in mind that this person is already known to BDO since she has the payroll debit account. Not at all. A white face asking a lot questions soon brings the BDO manager. He makes a phone call, speaks for a few moments, and... surprise! The cheque can be deposited. Jeez.[/QUOTE]
Since she left Convergys the account couldn't be converted to her own savings account. Ultimately she opened her own account with Maybank, which was conveniently located for her in Manila... and nowhere else.