Chiang Mai

Freeler...

seems he has gotten his air back :-)

joe_zop...

I am still impressed. Few people today (and that goes for inhabitants of the Old World too) care for written language. (As I do not have english as my mother tongue, I should be excused :-)

If the traffic gets to heavy I will just abandon the bicycle. I will survive somehow: I once tried to cross Sukhumvit in the middle of the night heading directly from the odd numbered sois side towards the Landmark ATM (which I due to more than 20 Singha's hardly could see) and I am still here...

philo

Well, thanks, Philo, and your English is excellent for a second language (as of course is Freeler's.) You should have no difficulty getting out there -- ten baht and some small bit of patience will get you there by songkaew, and fifty baht at most via tuk-tuk from just about anywhere. It [i]can[/i] be done by bicycle if you're careful -- just avoid the rush period from about 4 to 6pm and be alert, which is something you always have to do on the roads in CM anyway, as it has more accidents than just about anywhere else in LOS. If you want to cycle there, you're better off avoiding Huai Kaeo as much as you can, as it's pretty busy.

As far as Sukhumvit -- I did the same thing the first time I was in Bangkok, only I did it during the daytime. Both of us are lucky not to have been ticketed or killed!

Was in CM a week or so back. Choice of bargirls nothing special - the ones in Bunny club were really dire. Great fat monsters the 2 times I went there. Spotlight disappointing also - tbe few girls in reasonable shape decidedly glum looking. Walked to Sayuri and got quoted 1800 for a full session - didn't indulge as it was 2pm and there was only one girl sitting behind the window. Later got food poisoning from papaya salad - a pisser as I wanted to check out Madame Fluke's (on the strength of Mondaychilde 's "slinking vestals of shakti" recommendation). Anyway, I gave up on CM (will return when in better mood, if only for sightseeing), took some antibiotics and headed down for a week in Phuket where I found the scene much superior.

Hamia,

You wrote: 'Later got food poisoning from papaya salad'

Just a few remarks on the food poisening.

When you order spicy food like papaya salad (som tam) or glass noodle salad (yam wun sen) always ask for Thai style, meaning as spicy as Thais would eat it.
It takes 5 chillies to make a good and safe som tam. Fewer chillies and the germs may survive...

The other thing - and I am not saying that you didn't have foodpoisening, but most people are not aware of this - is that sunburn is the most likely cause for symptoms associated with foodpoisoning, like fever, vomiting and diarrhea. The sunrays destroy the skin by burning it, white bloodcells come to the rescue but get slaughtered themselves. This leaves your body with a lot of internal cleaning up to do resulting in the symptoms mentioned.

Freeler

I don't think my papaya salad was making any concessions to "normal" falang tastes - in fact it had a rather high chilli content, and this is from someone who is quite at home with uber-spicy cuisine. Maybe I shouldn't have scoffed it so quickly - waited for the chilli-effect to zap the nasty germs.

The sun factor may have played a part though - I like to walk a lot when I'm on holiday in an effort to keep in reasonable shape (unlike the bloaters in Bunny club) and didn't have a hat for much of the time.

Does anyone who if there is much action in Chiang Rai? Been to Phuket several times and really like it. Just want to see something differnt.

Back again from LOS (sometimes that S must mean Sad things, or am I going soft-core?).

I liked CM, and had quite a few good moments there. Here's my MP-research (map is B&B City Streets Chiang Mai, around 165B):

Sayuri

Best in town. Good girls, nice management, first girls arrives around 2 p.m., asians in the front-of-fishbowl-sofas from around 3 p.m. Prices: 800B a wash-n-boom, 950B bodymassage (B-badges) and 1200B for superstar (M-badges). Rooms little bit worn, but you can have VIP-rom for a few reds... 50-100 motorbikes (=girls) from 5-7 p.m. Location: Bumrung Rat (Rajd) Soi 2 (Map: D10 exactly where map says 'BR 2').

The first time I went I said 'railway station' to the taxi-driver and belled him to stop at the junction of Bumrung Rat and Charoen Muang and walked from there (5 min.). Later I used 'Thanon Bumrung Raad Soi Soong' and walked the few last meters. In spite of dealing with 4-5 different 'mangager-sans' I was never asked for a baht more than mentioned over. My favourite......

New Nancy

OK place. 1300B for wash-n-boom (red badges), 1500B for bodymassage (blue badges). Worn rooms. Never saw many girls, but the ones I had was nice... Walking distance (5 min. from Tha Pae Gate). Located in Chiang Mai President Hotel (Map: C8, map says 'President').

Pandora

Hugh place. One time I saw 50-80 girls18-23. 1 h wash-n-boom 1110B (tax you now.......), 1.5 h 1440B. Rooms worn-out and dirty (I think my sheets was used before.....why do I care, the girl was probably so too?).

Map: E11, place not marked. Head for railway station, when you have passed Bumrung Rat start looking for big Shell-station on your right. Get of there. 10 m. further down, on the other side of Charoen Muang, there is a soi between a light green colored house and a pool/snooker joint. Walk this soi some 300 m. to a big white/gold roman-empire inspired right-hand-side building. You're home ...

Phucome

Big place, but never saw much of it. Went early (2 p.m.) Got a wash-n-boom for 1000B. Map B3 marked 'CM Phucome'. Take taxi to Phucome Hotel entrance. Pass the Trad. Mass. place (don't try to mention boom-boom there - I had to pay grandma a red and bow myself out backwards....) to your left and head for the parking area underneath the building. You'll see the neon signs...

to be continued..........

continued:

Ping Payom

Got info from local thai. He said B800. Went tuk-tuk, left the place, returned walking 10 min. later. Ended up paying 1500B for bodymassage (thinking 800B was for wash-n-boom only). Good girls, but no matress for BM. Told manager, he admitted commision but had his own definition on BM: girl touch you with hand = BM. Ended up I should only pay 950B next time. If you are hard-core you will get it for 800B.

Best room in town: clean, delicate and discretely decorated (must be designed by a european reborn thai ....).

Map: D3, place not marked. Take taxi to junction Suthep/Nimmanhemin. Continue westwards on left side of Suthep to the first soi (may be a 100 m.). The MP has its entrance from the parking area inside/behind Ping Payom Hotel. Insist on 800B (unless the nice room is very important to you) ..........

philo

Excellent reports, Philo and it sounds like you had a good time. Seems like the prices in Pandora have come down a bit. And the info on Ping Payom is great -- never heard the place mentioned before, so thanks!

Thanks joe_zop....

and Yes, I had a good time... but already after my second trip with the intention to (mis)use LBFM's I'm starting to get second thoughts... Maybe I had better go to Laos picking bombs (nojudgement on how they got there; but they are there).

Seeing the posters on the wall in one of the rooms of Sweetheart (BKK) made me realize I was banging an 18 (?) yo in her bedroom. My 200B tip grew 1500B so she could buy herself out for the day and meet her friend (you see them: hand-in-hand with similar teddybear-sacks). Another ruined day....

Breaking a condom with an 18 yo from Spotlight (CM) - filling her up - was really something: you feel like shit when the poor girl (and this one really was a child of 18, 4 weeks of working, her first condom breakage) - with fear and tears in her eyes - runs for the bathroom and pumps herself up with cold water. I felt so bad I f***ing went to Nations Doctor (or something) to have an HIV-test: not for me BUT FOR HER! (am I going crazy?)). As I returned to the bar I gave the negative test result to mamasan explaining I had no comdom breaking since early dec. last year, so I was (within the standard 3 months detection time) clean. Trying to make myself feel better, I ended up giving the girl a few thousand for gold. Who th f*** am I: a monk or a missionary or a fool.....

I will elaborate on this later........ Have to go to work (that has become meaningless).

philo(sopher)

PS. Reading A Killing Smile over 14 smuggled gin-tonics last night made me think that may be I am also one of the guys who's 'always defeated by his own decency'. Who knows ....

Philo -- look, there's absolutely nothing wrong with being human about the whole process, and I say bravo for that, and there's no reason to be either heartless or to radically go in the other direction. I'm certainly not going to discourage anyone from helping clean up Laotian or Cambodian bombs if they so desire, as there's little question that can be safer than dealing with the minefields of Thai women, but there are also other approaches you can take.

If you're getting remorseful about being with these 18-year-old TGs, then choose someone older. I personally rarely go for those of that age because sometimes I get exactly that sense of discomfit (as well as feeling even less a sense of commonality than I do with someone older.) But please keep in mind that your decision isn't going to change anything but the girl's income -- she's made her decision about how she's going to make money and whether you contract her or not she's going to do it. Bravo for paying for the test for the girl, but get one for yourself as well.

And you may well be someone defeated by your own decency -- it's no big deal to buy women out so they can go do things with their friends or family, but there are two things to consider. First, expect that if you're doing this you will be deceived at some point, by some TG, who will simply work anyway and pocket the extra money. These ladies are trying to make a living, and an opportunity for extra income is an opportunity for extra income. No need to take it personally, and many will do exactly as you intend and be with their friends, but don't be surprised if it happens, as one of the skills these ladies learn is how to pluck the farang heartstring. Next, and most importantly -- guilt is a stupid motivator for monetary decisions. You want to tip a woman because you like her and/or she's made you feel good, then great. That's appropriate (but don't be a fool about it.) Expect from the woman both gratitude and an expectation that it will always happen like that. But doing so out of guilt about the woman's situation or your own in the scheme of things is a fast way not only to be broke but to be broken.

This whole scene has nothing to do with your personal position in it beyond how you decide to define that, and it won't change no matter how you approach it. It is what it is, and you are who you are -- and if you're not happy or comfortable with yourself in it, then nothing you're going to do is going to make it good. You're comfortable with it or you're not. That's not a reproach, just a caution -- if you're going to engage in this scene, it's best to have your head on straight about it.

Philo,

isn't there a little bit of narcissism in your attitude ?

Agreed, you are a nice person, and you did the decent thing, or so you thought. Nonetheless, you should not see more in this story than there really is. And I agree with Joe, go for an older chick next time, as 18 yos are still so uncomfortably close to childhood.

On a different note, I am glad that your HIV test turned negative (I assume that you got yourself tested to reassure the girl, not that you got the girl tested, as Joe seemed to assue, which would have been pointless).

But what if is did not ? I mean, these tests (I assume you got an ELISA test, by Abbot, or so) are notoriously unreliable. Many people in Thailand got a false positive, just because they have malaria, for example. That would have meant much more aggravation for her, and for you ...

Sometime, doing the decent thing might not be the smartest thing to do...

Philo,

The girls being 18 means they're legal. They're on the adult side of line. Doesn't matter how close they are to it. I'm not supporting child abuse. It's absolutely wrong. But, these girls have probably been ready (if not already working) for a couple years.

As for the HIV test. Much better to be informed with a possibly invalid result than to stick your head in the sand. If you had gotten a bad result, you could have gone and retaken the test (study first this time ;))

Seems like you're a nice guy, and probably made this girls day a little brighter by being nice to her.

joe_zop, zeydlitz and purplengold

you are ofcourse right........ if i think of it as a nonacceptable exploitation or cannot accept putting the girls to a small risk, then i should leave the game. and an older girl will make me more reassured she knows what she's into. and unreasonable overpaying/gifts will not change the moral (or feeling of guilt) of it. and you cannot (and have no need for) trust them.... i just had a bad day (and i also admit i am doing some budgeting: a lt stay in los will not withstand too many days of bx000 more than you planned.

the test was of my blod but done for her. it still amazes me that i gave a f*** about my risk of getting something from her. it just tortured me to think that i might have been accidentally responsible for destroying this cute little innocent daugher-like (no ****) thing.

it was my first test on 7 years. up to dec. last year i have only done farang chang's and the occationally one-night stand

Well, you were smart to be concerned about getting something from her, frankly. (And though I see I miswrote, I was aware of what you meant -- I meant to convey you shouldn't have gotten the test just for her peace of mind, but for yours.) Keep in mind that though many of these women are still young when you come in contact with them, that doesn't mean they haven't had [i]significantly[/i] more sexual contacts than [i]you[/i] have. RN, who posts on this board, is about 30, was only really in the game for a few years, has been mostly out for several years, and I believe her estimate of the men she'd been with was in the 5000 range.

I'm not saying that this girl had anything, or that she was anything more than pretty inexperienced (I've had the same general experience minus breakage, and you do find some pretty inexperienced girls there) but you simply don't really know. It's very possible in LOS to find women who have just turned 18 who still have several years in the game under their belts. At Spotlight the girls are barfined fairly frequently, particularly the younger ones, who are considered fresh meat by the locals who line up to get them. If they don't get fined at least nine times a month, they have to pay the bar. Few do.

Look, why should it torture you less to feel you'd destroyed a TG who was a couple of years older? If something terrible has happened, it's terrible no matter who it happens to. Again, your perspective on this indicates you need to reconsider your choices in ladies, unless you actually like torturing yourself this way, in which case, hey, up to you... :)

I absolutely agree that LT stays can get expensive if you don't keep to your budget. I certainly spent more than I'd planned (though most of it wasn't on TGs, actually, as I was pretty close to my budget there.)

And knowing the dragon mamasan at the Spotlight, she no doubt did a couple of things after you gave her the test results: first, she went to the girl and told her that you were obviously hooked on her, and she should take advantage. Second, she reamed the girl out for letting you spend your money on something as useless as a medical test as opposed to giving it to the girl, told her she wasn't charging you enough and to raise her rates, and then dear mamasan no doubt demanded a substantial tip for the brilliant care and advice...