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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Joe_Zop
[i]Hmm, so it's ok for [i]you[/i] to be liberal with English (let's see: it should be "I did once contribute" and "clever readers" among other things) but you're going to correct someone's spelling? Hilarious! [/i][/QUOTE]
Joe, can you see that it's my good illustration of what I meant by liberal with English? Can you think outside the box? I am, you are, he is, are these different verbs necessary to convey any different meaning? No. Just as WSG readers choose what laws to obey and what to break, these are just grammatical rules. Chinese icons has no tense. Is it worse? Hindi scripts has a verb stem with lots of things around it, including tense and whether the action is completed or not. Is it better? Action and time are two independent things and I don't really bother to hurt my brain for no good reason.
As for spelling, I just happen to have a free browser integrated spell checker. That's what perfect spelling is worth (less). Same for grammar. The reason I correct spelling is to help Jackson out, and make sure that when I quote other people, their misspelling don't count as mine.
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I'm sorry, but the point is very simple: it's laughable for you to assert that you are somehow endowed with the ability to use "special English" and then to criticise someone's spellling. The issue of your spell chekcer is truly secondary to that of your essential attitude. Just how special do you think you deserve to be, as opposed tot he poster you've criticisized? Your grammar and hebrephenic approach is ok, but someone making a minor mistake on a specific word is not? As always, you miss the major point in service of the obtuse: You are a grammatically lazy fuck who has no right to criticize anyone's mistakes -- if you want to complain about a breaking of language rules, then first follow them yourself, otherwise you're simply as disingenuous as can be.
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Joe_Zop
[i]I'm sorry, but the point is very simple: it's laughable for you to assert that you are somehow endowed with the ability to use "special English" and then to [criticise] someone's [spellling]. The issue of your spell [chekcer] is truly secondary to that of your essential attitude. Just how special do you think you deserve to be, as opposed [tot he] poster you've [criticisized]? Your grammar and [hebrephenic] approach is ok, but someone making a minor mistake on a specific word is not? As always, you miss the major point in service of the obtuse: You are a grammatically lazy fuck who has no right to [criticize] anyone's mistakes -- if you want to complain about a breaking of language rules, then first follow them yourself, otherwise you're simply as disingenuous as can be. [/i][/QUOTE]
I hate to add another post but Joe you say time and time again that I criticize whatever. I didn't. I just point out and correct the spelling with my given reasons. No complain. That's not a crime too. Over and out.
By the way, you score 7 in one paragraph that I [square bracketed], well done. I assume if you teach British English in US, those count as errors too. Are you challenging my spell checker or Jackon's rules?
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I'm saying that if you're going to swim in shit you've got little right to talk about someone else's hygiene. You argue on this board that following grammar rules is something you don't think needs to apply to you, but then you have the gall to point out other people's minor errors. That makes you a sanctimonious ass. Saying this is to "help Jackson out" is absurd, as is worrying that by quoting someone those errors are going to be attributed to you -- the quotation italics make very clear who said what. My general level of writing sophistication is at least equal to anyone else on this board, but I sure as heck don't go around pointing out typos in an attempt to demonstrate superiority over other posters, as you consistently do.
(Oooh, geez, I made some typos -- thanks so much for pointing them out -- would you like to go through and categorize them according to type of error? I.e., "chekcer" and "hebrephenic" being transpositional errors, etc.? That would certainly be a major contribution to the content of this board, and would alleviate you from having to actually deal with the content involved, which seems to be your general approach. Far better to put "hebephrenic" in brackets than deal with what the word actually means, right? I suppose these somehow made my point so unclear that a twit like you couldn't understand it.)
This is definitely a time I agree wholeheartedly with Dick Johnson.
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Tallanddumb, thank you for your TIMELY (sarcasm) response. It was back in April when I made the last post on this thread. I also questioned if you are Korean. And then recently on Yahoo I found YOU - 'tallandhandsome2002' posting that "N. KOREA SHOULD NUKE USA!"
If you hate USA so much then go back to Korea you f*&k. Or I'll have Homeland Security on your tails, dumbass.
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Dick, as I've said, I did not feel the need to response to your obviously groundless finger pointing - that's why the timely response. Did you get more virus from Joe, you not clever guy? My email on record is tallnhandsom2000, did you make up the yahoo posts?
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COMES AROUND: Jackson, please ban this asshole immediately and delete his posts. He is obviously some juvenile prick posting girls' email addresses as a great joke. He has three posts for different parts of Japan and all they give is email addresses and at least one senior member, Fishmonger, has fallen for his bait.
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Jackson,
First of all thanks for restoring the board. However something has to be done about this Larry ***** guy. He is posting nothing but garbage not to mention wasting his time and ours. Thanks for listening.
Yankee
[blue]Hi Yankee,
Thanks for the head's up. This guy is a complete waste of bandwidth, so as of today, he's history.
Jackson[/blue]
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Jackson:
Thanks for deleting this Larry *******. At the same time, I am glad that made my response to him unnecessary.
I wanted to report his post to you but when I clicked on the "report this post to moderator" I did not know to which category his posts belonged, so I hesitated and just send off a new post in response. Sorry about not letting you know earlier.
Lilojo
[blue]Hi Lilojo,
It's easy. Just use the "Report this post to a moderator" function to report the post. The function will open a dialog box where you can enter your comments, and when you select the OK button, it will send me an email with your comments and a link directly back to the suspect report. This is so easy foe me because I don't have to hunt for the suspected report.
Thanks,
Jackson[/blue]
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It's been a long time since I read this particular thread. It just goes to support my position that this Forum is one of the most entertaining things on the web today. I never fail to get a laugh, a hard on, and a good idea whenever I spend a bit of time perusing the site.
Unlike most other of these type web sites, our admin has the good sense and good humor to come out of the dark and say something rather salient or sometimes downright really funny from time to time. It completes the circle.
Reading some of the firefights between posters gets me to laughing sometimes and then I realize that there have been times when I have gotten into verbal fisticuffs here and must sound much the same as those that make me laugh.
I do applaud our admin though for having the courage of his convictions to actually eject people from time to time when the situation actually warrants it and not just for some minor and usually inadvertant egregious infraction of rules. He knows when to bend and when not to and that's a valuable thing. It means that people actually have an opportunity to learn from mistakes and see the error of their ways and change. I have read posts in all areas that show that in action. I think that it also allows guys to kind of let their hair down so to speak and perhaps say or ask things that they might not otherwise ahve the opportunity or feel safe enough to do so. I think that's why the posts are not always 100% pussy finding in nature, but instead run the gamut and prove to be a really useful tool with which to learn. I know it has helped me both get what I want as well as have the balls to do things that are pretty wild in a relatively safe manner.
Enough said, thank you Jackson.
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dear jackson.
(posted this in letters to ed too before i saw this section ! sorry)
i appreciate you have a major task running this board, and a fantastic thing it is, well done.
could you take a peek at recent run of messages in russia/moscow section.
i don't wish to name people specifically but if you read back over a few pages you will note one member often puts down other members and has taken taken up a less than decent and respectful attitude to other members in general. i am sure many regular moscow section readers are getting beyond laughing at the behaviour and finding it rather tedious.
many thankks in advance.
dt
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Jackson,
Primera, thanks for the Sr. status.
Segunda, there is a poster in the Dominican Republic photo gallery, Dominican Hunk , who has been posting photos from Brazil and other areas , and claiming them to be from RD. Several members have called him out on this, and one was able to refer the photo to the Brazil photo gallery.
I feel a bit childish doing this...but it is a slap at the other members who really do contribute valuable info.
Muchas gracias.
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Jackson,
I am making this report since, for the past week I have logged off of WSG, fuming about a situation that you are probably aware exists, but possibly are not aware is a cancer at WSG. I wish to report a troll, who has repeatedly violated the rules of the forum and stirred up an amazing amount of controversy and, in the most recent event, anger. I want you to know this because the said party claims he is your close friend. No, not just claims, he brags about it everywhere he goes. And it is to your detriment and the detriment of WSG. Just to clarify, this is the same matter that WSG senior member Trashman recently posted on this board. The cancer: OttoGraham.
Recently he has begun confusing his status as a senior member and yours as the administrator. He has more than one time confused his station with yours, and is not reticent to admit that he has special privileges that other senior members do not enjoy. In light of the recent incident with this party in United States > Virginia > Northern Virginia I further believe and am convinced that one of two conditions exist:
1. You have shown exceptional preferential treatment to this member.
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2. He has the admin password.
Jackson, with all due respect, either condition is untenable given that this member, while being an excellent writer and contributor in his areas of visitation, has shown very little regard or respect for those who contribute the most to WSG in areas where he has contributed [b]absolutely nothing[/b]. He keeps talking about sniping and trolling and flaming as driving good posters away while is fanning the flames, continuing to troll, referring to us as children, and finding it necessary to have the last word even when the local seniors have asked that we get back on subject. I am not talking about local seniors with 11 posts to their credit, I am talking about the guys with 300 - 400 - 500 or 1400 posts who have carried the local boards for years without Mr Graham's wisdom or guidance.
In addition, Mr Graham has gone so far as to [b]personally[/b] invite a highly respected senior member to post elsewhere and to let [b]him[/b] know if he had a problem with it and then [b]told the member[/b] (as opposed to advised the member) to edit his post. As I understand it, only Jackson can make those statements on this forum.
Sir, we know it's your sandbox and we thank you for letting us play, and we pretty much have the rules understood. And if we get hot under the collar and out of line, all you have ever needed to do is drop a note and we have always gone ship shape immediately. But I will not be lambasted and lectured by an imperious jerk who has never contributed to the local area, even if he does so "in your name." It is precisely that he claims to be doing all things in your name, while being the ultimate troll, that is so infuriating in this issue.
For that reason, I have and will continue to contribute NOTHING of consequence to WSG until you feel you can muzzle your close friend, and I would prefer either your comment of support in this matter (or an apology from Mr Graham) on open forum. If you feel that I am completely out of line in feeling so strongly on this issue, I remind you that it is always in you purview to terminate my membership.
Kind regards,
LoveLOS
Reference also: [url]http://www.wsgforum.com/vforum/showthread.php?s=&postid=186748#post186748[/url]
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Attitude Adjustment
OK Guys, I vowed silence, and I apologize that I am going to stir up a hornets nest here. I'm pissed and this needs airing out. I respectfully submit that my comments NOT be edited by the admin because this is not a personal attack, I will stick to the facts, this is an attitude adjustment that needs to be made, and as one of the two most senior members here, I am making this adjustment even if it costs me my membership. That is how strongly I feel about the subject. Other local members probably have not researched the history of our new friend Mr Otto Graham.
Background: He joined WSG as a contributor in June of 2002 and immediately made friends with the admin, the respected Jackson who hosts this wonderful forum. In fact, his fourth report was actually filed by his new friend. It turns out that Otto is a gifted and talented writer of trip reports and soon gathered a large following of fans on WSG. His friend Jackson soon gave him his own board in Argentina, where he has contributed much. I first noticed him when he spammed the whole of WSG to contribute to the WSG charities, then later spammed the whole of WSG to tell us about PMs. While spamming the boards is against the rules here, it is obvious he did so with the admin's blessing, so very few people quibbled. I estimate these posts added at least 150 -200 to his post count, not that anyone looks at that when considering the contributions a member has made to WSG. Those few incidents are the only time I have noticed he has "contributed" to our welfare here in the DC/Nova area.
On 02-25-04, about four pages back, a new member Jim Rob made a rather "un-researched" post asking about AMPS in the area. You have seen the basic RTFF type question. However, Mr Graham went so far as to accuse the newbie of being a law enforcement officer!! WOW! I felt that was strong, perhaps even a personal attack, hmmmmmm? I added instructions for RTFF, and Trashman added a rather gentle asswhipping in case the newbie missed my subtle hints. Now, everybody who reads this board knows that when the Trashman speaks, that is usually the end of the issue.
At this juncture, I will introduce the concept of a troll. A troll is someone who fans the flames when they need not be fanned, someone who has to have the last word and does not have the perception to see that they should just shut up.
OK, call me ignorant for asking, but please give me a show of hands of those who think it is a good idea to tell the Trashman he is acting childish, being profane or insulting? Oh I see one hand. Our troll, Otto. He managed to do this while still calling the newbie a cop, and telling myself and the Trashman that it was his decision to stop insulting the new guy. Excuse me? Since when is a non-contributor calling the shots on a local board? He did call on his stolen admin password or his best friend (the jury is still out on that one) to edit a few choice zingers out of Trash's post. Well, the troll did his work well and got the expected response from Trashman, which he also edited or had edited. Funny thing about that post was there was a lot of editing done that had nothing to do with a personal attack, just some explatives. I would call that some very special editing that we normally do not see, and is the basis for my theory of the stolen admin password.
In the mean time, our spanking of Jim Rob had the desired effect and he agreed to mend his lazy ways, so I took the responsibility for calling it quits on his persecution. I welcomed his posts to the board and pointed out that even senior members (and referred to Mr Graham) sometimes do things that were out of line and we get after them, but we don't hold grudges when they conform to the expectations of the board. I then made a very plain admonition to Mr Graham that he was out of line and tried to gently explain in what ways he had offended myself and the Trashman. I also explained to him that, although this board may seem a bit harsh in meting out punishment for errors, we are gentle enough that we lose very few of those we spank. I thought I had made it very very plain that we need not continue the thread any further.
Unfortunately, rather than yielding to local members senior to himself who, for the second time, had attempted to bring closure to the thread, the [b]troll[/b] spoke again. He played the respect to Jackson card to lambast two members who, from the actions noted here, have far more respect for Jackson than Mr Graham. Ironic was the words he used:[quote]..we can't just decide to come into his living room, take a dump on the carpet, throw bricks at the TV screen, and call it "my home."[/quote] The irony is that if you accept his position the board is Jackson's (which we agree to) then this post and the previous troll post was just another pile of shit on his carpet. If you are one of the many here who think of this board as your "home" on WSG, then again, the troll just threw another brick through our computer screens.
Trashman apparently tried one more time to get the troll to silence, but the troll had his comments deleted before anyone read them. At that point Trashman called it quits on the thread and I stopped contributing to WSG out of protest. I have, however been researching the archives and I have now come to the conclusion that this is not an isolated incident, but a pattern of behavior which, IMHO the admin needs to moderate or Mr Graham needs to repent of.
Otto, you continually tell us that you are working for the betterment of the forum. I believe that you are sincere in that respect. Unfortunately your 'imperial' attitude, lack of respect for other seniors on this site (due to your special relationship with the MAN), your apparent need to pontificate, and your lack of understanding of how others feel about the local boards, and finally the feeding of the troll; has had the opposite effect. Without making a statement that may affect their status, I am not the only one who is abstaining from contributions to WSG until a reform is made. We have no problems with adhering to Jackson's rules; but until HE tells US, publicly, that you are co-admin, we do have a problem submitting to your lecturing.
For the third time I admonish you to please put this behind us so we may get on with the purpose of this forum. Yes, I ask you to humble yourself from your position of power, but I believe the exchange will be beneficial.
Peace,
LoveLOS
Yes this is one hell of a long post, but I add the following to substantiate my concerns that this behavior is neither isolated nor accepted on other local WSG boards. Please note that I am not quoting from any regular members, all of these guys are respected senior members on WSG with at 400 to 1400 posts to their credit:
[quote]Originally posted by [b]OttoGraham[/b] 01-06-04 Asia > Thailand > Samus Aran in Thailand
Boys (and I do mean [b]boys[/b]!):
This is Jackson's sandbox. We just play here because he's kind enough to let us do so. I think what he wrote just below ought to be the final word on all this nonsense.
In other words: Grow up!
-Uncle Otto[/quote]
[quote]Originally posted by [b]OttoGraham[/b] 01-06-04 Asia > Thailand > Samus Aran in Thailand
WSG is bigger than any one poster, unless that poster is [b]Admin[/b]. I do not cry over the loss of any poster, especially one who can dish it out but not take it when it is thrown back at him.
Almost all of you are acting like a bunch of crybabies, IMHO. [red]ed note: ZERO, I repeat ZERO tolerance for personal attacks.[/red]
-Uncle Otto[/quote]
[quote]Originally posted by [b]Joe Zop[/b] 01-07-04 Asia > Thailand > Samus Aran in Thailand
Obviously, Uncle Otto, we value and care deeply for your opinion and name calling, and have appreciated all your enlightening and valuable field reports in the Thailand section.[/i][/quote]
[quote]Originally posted by [b]Skinless[/b] 01-07-04 Asia > Thailand > Samus Aran in Thailand [b]edited for brevity, emphasis mine[/b][i]
Otto: ...snip... Trollers and flamers do not help: I am not classifying you as one but merely pointing out the dynamics to you. [b]Please don't feed the troll.[/b]
...snip...
Joe: Let's ignore our latest troll.[/quote]
[quote]Originally posted by [b]OttoGraham[/b] 01-06-04 Asia > Thailand > Samus Aran in Thailand [b]emphasis mine[/b]
[b]Over a bottle of wine and a fine dinner, my good friend Jackson[/b] recently confided to me that his biggest pain in the ass with hosting this site comes from people in the Thailand section constantly sniping at one another.
My attention was drawn to this section recently when one of your number made the point of cross-posting his personal problems/gripes on this subject on a number of other threads on this site. As the problem seems to be metastastsizing like a cancer, [b]I decided to come take a look at the root of the problem myself.[/b] [red]ed note: Your initiative, not Jacksons?[/red]
You are absolutely right that I've not contributed field reports on the Thailand section. I've contributed them in the U.K., Hungary, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Russia, Argentina, and a few others. [red]ed note: who cares where you have posted? that was not the issue[/red] But as for Thailand, I've not visited yet, and thus can't offer any reports. However, just like my lack of contributions to the Thailand section, all this juvenile sniping and flaming doesn't add anything either! Indeed, it drives good posters away. [red]ed note: Damn, case in point. I quit until Uncle Otto is muzzled![/red]
I've taken the trouble to read quite a bit of the Thailand board for the past several months' worth of posts. It's clear to me that there are NO white hats. Nobody is a poor, put-upon innocent. [red]ed note: Hmmmm must have missed my posts...[/red]
And I say this as somebody who has read these posts as a completely disinterested outsider.
I know how frustrated El Jefe Jackson is at having to constantly deal with personalities in the Thai section - the following words to the wise ought to be sufficient: Clean up your acts, get back on topic, stop the flaming, stop the reaction to the flames somebody makes about you. OR you'll be throttled back to "Regular Member" status or even have your accounts cancelled altogether. [red]ed note: That sounds like a threat, but it was not written in blue[/red]
-Uncle Otto[/quote]
[quote]Originally posted by [b]Joe Zop[/b] 01-07-04 Asia > Thailand > Samus Aran in Thailand [b]emphasis mine[/b]
Uncle Otto, I agree that there's a lot of carping that goes on in this section, and while I occasionally contribute to it and am thereby far from blameless, most folks will agree I spend far more time trying to tamp it out and make people play nice. (Half the spats I end up in come from that, it seems.) Thailand is far from the only area where that happens and that's for certain, but it's certainly one of the more active areas, which means more carping. I agree this drives good posters away, which was what I said earlier, and was also precisely the point you said you didn't care about! I do cry over the loss of good posters, as it means there's information I'm not going to receive.
I have never treated Jackson with anything but the utmost respect, and would happily share a bottle of wine with him. I've read your reports in other areas and have appreciated them, though they are not in places I'm planning on visiting for the most part. [b]But in the same way you found it annoying to have someone from this section griping in other sections, it feels the same way to have someone come in out of the blue, call names, and lecture. You may have the best intentions, but it simply comes off as high and mighty when you come in and refer to everyone as children and crybabies, which means your point dissipates. Why should anyone give credence to someone who comes in, adopts an imperial tone, and does basically the same thing he complains about?[/b][/quote]
[red]This bears repeating, with 1475 posts currently Joe Zop is one of the MOST SENIOR and MOST RESPECTED members on all of WSG, IMHO: [b]...it feels the same way to have someone come in out of the blue, call names, and lecture. You may have the best intentions, but it simply comes off as high and mighty when you come in and refer to everyone as children and crybabies, which means your point dissipates. Why should anyone give credence to someone who comes in, adopts an imperial tone, and does basically the same thing he complains about?[/b][/red]
[quote]Originally posted by [b]OttoGraham[/b] 01-07-04 Asia > Thailand > Samus Aran in Thailand
Perhaps because I have the ear of the emperor in a way most of you don't? [red]ed note: Need I say more?[/red][/quote]
[b]Reference letter to the editor: [url]http://www.wsgforum.com/vforum/showthread.php?s=&postid=186747#post186747[/url][/b]
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LoveLOS -
Did not research the issue in depth, but based the quotes, data and observations presented, I gotta support your conclusions.
You have presented your opinion in a most even handed and, shall I say, professional manner. Should you be banned for that, shame on Jackson.
If Trash has indeed left the board for good - what a serious loss since he provides positive information on the board and backchanneled to. The main purpose for the board. What the fuck is going on?
Jackson has always presented himself as reasonable and fair.
I would be most surprised if resultant action is negative toward you.
If non action is his decision on the big picture, I would be surprised and disappointed also.
Something just aint right and only Jackson can rectify the situation at this point.
Reminds me of why I left *** years ago - the Big One himself came down on me from his imperial throne in addition to one of his moderators. They were entitled to do so, but the magnitude of the dressing down was not equal to the issue at hand. Although I was not banned, I left. Concurrently, I was given a lifetime membership to another pay board because I stood up for what I believed.
With all the free boards, why pay. WSG has been a breath of fresh air for a long time and I like this board, but should the same imperial attitude dominant, then it is "see ya later".
Hope we stay in touch via backchannel.
clix
[blue]Hi Clix,
No one gets banned for expressing an opinion, even if it's an opinion that is directly in contrast to my own opinion on the same subject.
Thanks,
Jackson[/blue]
