FKK Golden Gate / old Villa Vertigo in Grefrath NRW

....I have followed with interest.

I was not there so cannot comment on anyones attitudes or actions.

My thoughts though are as follows. I do not know the photographer neither do I know the management, as such I would not know whether I could trust either of them entirely. I expect both are good for their word, but, for me trust is something that grows as I get to know people, as such in this situation i would feel very very uncomfortable.

I would think the best plan should an establishment wish to take photos would be to announce it very clearly with a big sign at reception advising that shots were being taken and between what hours, and in addition verbally mention this to people arriving. (if people were to be blurred out or not in focus then this could be explained)

As also suggested by another member - make the photographer stand out, it gives the customers a chance to avoid being in shot entirely.

Finally, a manager of any establishment, when hearing a complaint should apologise in any event, whether they agree with the customer or not. It is just good practice and shows respect and gratitude for custom. If an establishment feels something was wrong then recompense may be offerred, if not then they can simply thank the customer for bringing the issue to their attention. Polite, attentive, simple, effective.

What I find alarming is an apparent failure to understand the concern.

I have recently read good reports of this place and had considered visiting this weekend, but, I shall probably play safe now and go elsewhere.

DT

As posted elsewhere, I am considering another trip to Fuckland, probably next month. In my plan I initially listed also VV, but a number of bad signs (just read the complaints for this and that in previous posts) are advising me to cancel it. Last but not least this photos issue.
I totally agree with Toscana and Dick Travel.

Guys,

I really don't want to disourage others to visit the club. You now know of the fact that there is a club employee "disguised" as a guest taking pictures and you can avoid his camera by being aware of it (unfortunately we were not aware of this practice at the time). My problem and my friends is that we were mistreated, but that does not have to mean that you will and I am sure that they will reconsider their work habits of when and how to make photos (although it would probably ease the mind of many if Stephan would actually say so).

Other than this unfortunate incident, it is a fantastic looking club with excellent facilities and I am sure the lineup will improve. I suggest you make up your own mind regardless of my and my friends problems with the management. I was not even going to post about it (thinking it was a very isolated incident due to Stephan stress level having all the customers waiting at the desk and no lockers to hand out) until Stephan decided to give his account how it went down which was from my point of view a very distorted description of the truth.

When we left the club, we decided not to have the incident eat at us and spoil our evening so we just drove to LR and had a nice time there (always treated like kings there) and just kind of threw the thing over our shoulders so to speak, but too many board members witnessed the whole thing so I guess it was bound to surface here.

Let's at least give the management a change to come up with revised photo rules in the club (no private collection of guests) and then you can hopefully make up your mind based on things like lineup, facilities etc. that hopefully will be the only deciding factors.

As for me and my friends, we can't really go again on principle since we can't give our money to someone that treated us unfairly, but I am not calling for a boycott on the club. I am trying to be fair here since I don't think that one mistake (oh well, kind of series of mistakes tied to one incident) should cause others to avoid the club.

If you see a photographer "disguised" as a guest aim his camera in your direction, a good idea would be to just gently push the bugger into the pool with his gear :-) I realize that we were probably way to polite to him at the time :-)

Wow... as I trust and believe the gentelmen who were wrongly treated by the owner, I will also take my business elsewhere until this matter is resolved.

Ah well, there will always be another club around the corner to put the badly managed ones out of business...

I do a photoshoot at the Villa once a month, last was this Thursday. This is to provide interesting images for the blog, that I am sure you guys enjoy to see. A couple of them are already up on the blog.

Most of it is done on the luxurious rooms upstairs, with a one hour shoot by the pool and open area.

As I shoot with A Canon 1Ds and a 1D. Really large pro cameras. It is fairly obvious that photos are being taken, or maybe the 20kg photo accessories bag would be a dead giveaway anyway.

This time I was very careful to approach every guest in the pool area and warn him that we were going to make a photoshoot. This gave them plentiful warning in case they felt distrustful that our objective was not to get club guests. Only one guest left the pool area.

You should understand that if the security cameras on every club are a much higher risk to your privacy, as they record everything in their vicinity, rather than a photographer who can wait a few seconds to click the shutter until a gentleman disappears from the frame.

I do shoot in a bathrobe as I found it makes the girls a bit more at ease and makes it easier for me to enjoy the facilities in between photo sessions.

I can't comment on the incidents referred to on this board, as I was not there, but have always found the management of the Villa to be the most courteous of any FKK I've been to, and I am a pretty serious monger myself.

[QUOTE=Fkk Lover]Wow... as I trust and believe the gentelmen who were wrongly treated by the owner, I will also take my business elsewhere until this matter is resolved.

Ah well, there will always be another club around the corner to put the badly managed ones out of business...[/QUOTE]

I was the person thrown out of the club.

I asked the photographer if he had taken my photo and he replied "Absolutely!" When I asked him to delete it he said, "Absolutely not!"

I then came to the front desk to let management know what was going on. I was at all times calm. I did not raise my voice. I did not curse at you.

I was not drunk. As Henio has said I was the designated driver for the group.

You responded by raising your voice at me in a threatening manner and shaking your fist in front of my face at one point.

When I turned and walked away without saying another word you then chased after me and threw me out.

At no time did you let me see "the chip."

Based on your actions that day and lack of truthfulness in this thread, I encourage others NOT to visit Villa Vertigo.

[QUOTE=Villavertigo]Hello!

I am Stephan, owner and manager of Villa Vertigo. I would like to report about the evening with the picture:

I ask one employee to take some pictures of our event - but only for internal use. I am highly aware of privacy of our clients. Nobody has ever seen a picture of a client somewhere and this will never ever happen.

The man complained about taking a picture. According to his opinion he was on this picture. I explained to him that none of any pictures will be published and they are only for internal use. Additonal we showed him the chip of the camera and none of any clients could be recognized.

He did not stop complaining for approx. 5 min. becoming louder and louder (being drunken) and at the end I asked to leave the club because I do not want or accept loud discussions in front of the reception.

Best regards,

Stephan[/QUOTE]

Made a stop at VV the other Friday night.The facilities are flashy ,but a bit of a cluster fuck regarding practicality,i.e., the drying area out side the showers is about the size of a telephone box and is the access to the (2!)toilets, so it´s a high traffic area .The fucking DJ in the bar seems to experiment on the maximum volume the human ear can tolerate. Impossible to hold any form of conversation.

Large groups of SP`s monopolised most of the couches in this bar. Most appeared to show little interest in the customers.Had decided to sample Alia (Phillipina,as reported on the Icebears forum) but that was a disappointment.
She didn´t do CIM, rest of service was so,so.

Found Natasha ,but she was drunk and in one of her moods ,so I called it quits. A totally uninspiring bunch of (service?)providers.

@Cynical: If I understand correctly, then it was not you shooting photos during the Hustler party right? The "photographer" at the Hustler party followed us to the front desk and stood behind Fusco grinning like an idiot while Fusco was speaking to Stephan.

No it wasn't me. I wish I had been there to do, I mean see the hustler girls, but I couldn't make it to the Villa due to other commitments.

[QUOTE=Henio]@Cynical: If I understand correctly, then it was not you shooting photos during the Hustler party right? The "photographer" at the Hustler party followed us to the front desk and stood behind Fusco grinning like an idiot while Fusco was speaking to Stephan.[/QUOTE]

There is a good reason why most reputable FKK's ban the use of mobiles in premises by guests and often there are signs posted to this effect. As mobiles now almost invariably have a camera, it is protect the anominity of paying guests and girls who it should be remembered are usually also paying guests in German FKK's.

Clearly Villa Vertigo isn't one of these FKK clubs. Photoshoots should only be done using girls and perhaps guests in off hours and certainly after having fully informed all in the club before hand and obtained a signed "Model's Release Form" from all even remotely in shot. Any other method is disrespectful and probably illegal.

FKK Villa Vertigo will go onto my personal 'Do Not Go' list. The wallet is a mighty weapon.

[QUOTE=Cynical]This time I was very careful to approach every guest in the pool area and warn him that we were going to make a photoshoot. This gave them plentiful warning in case they felt distrustful that our objective was not to get club guests. Only one guest left the pool area.
[/QUOTE] It would be interesting knowing how many members of this board do not mind being a part of your personal FKK photo collection. Seems to me that lot of them would object.

Now we now at least that there is a photo shoot going on regularly in the public areas of the club. Thanks for letting us in on that and then the readers of this board can then decide for themselves if they want to take the chance.

There was an incident at YY where a male visitor's face was put on the web without blurring it. Of course it was an accident, but it happened, the picture stayed there for a while until the mistake was discovered. That one can't be reversed. It would not have happened if the photo did not exist in the first place. Get the point? Security cameras are not there to make publishable photos like you are with your professional Canon 1Ds. Get it now?

I remember some time ago you had a Flickr site going with your FKK photos. I do not doubt that you take care of blurring out faces of customers and stuff, and I have no reason to distrust you but note that I also have absolutely no reason to trust you either. Knowing that you are regularly strutting around with a camera in the club taking pictures in the public area is a reason enough for lots of guys not visiting, and I am amazed of the stupidy of management letting that go on, and even more amazed of the thickness of those who do not recognize this as a major concern for visitors, that is just borderline retarded.

Whereas a formal apology, preferably including entritt frei, for my two friends, who were treated with arrogance, disrespect, and then ejected merely for making a polite but concerned request regarding the use of their images in the public domain, is not forthcoming,
and whereas no assurances of management discontinuing this practice of commercial/artistic photography of guests is forthcoming,
and whereas the line-up and attitude of the girls at this club, with notable exceptions, are subject to repeated "less than glowing" reviews from the esteemed members of this board,
and whereas the damn music is too loud,
I must join the growing ranks of the members of this august academy of muschi worshippers in adding my name to the list of mongers who will not be visiting VV until such conditions have been remedied. It's too late to fix the tiny towel off toilet main room entrance (where you can watch guests towelling off their arsehole while you sip your cocktail -LOL).

And besides, none of my mates will drive me there anyway.

These review boards abound, you name the country and you'll find a handful (if not more) devoted to reporting on the hobby. Out of the number of guys posting there is a greater number of guys just reading reports, getting information for future trips. I've seen agency owners in Montreal handle the public relation department with so much skill guys will book with them even if the girl doesn't compare with another agency's girls.

I've also seen owners stumble and make idiotic statements that drive away business in droves. Stephan falls under this list. This has got to be the worst public relation move by an owner of a club...hands down.

Dear Cynical,

May I suggest that you advise your boss in the strongest way possible that it would be in his best interests to offer an apology on this forum.

Customer satisfaction is absolutely paramount in business, especially as the recession grows, so eating of some humble pie is recommended; whether justified in Stephan´s eyes or not.

The cost of a couple of free tickets and a bottle of wine in compensation is a small price to pay for goodwill. It takes a lot of money to get a client - it costs a whole lot more if you upset him.

Pride is the shortest route to bankruptcy!

If Stephan reads this forum he must understand the damage that he is doing to himself!

I have been reading this threat on the photos issue and it just amazed me. Both the owner of the club and the photographer think there is nothing wrong about taking customer’s pictures... And to make matters worse those customers who politely complained were just basically kicked out of the club without any kind of refund. These are unquestionable facts that were witnessed by some forum members and somewhat confirmed by the manager/owner.


Stephan and the photographer, please give us a break... In any kind of place related to prostitution pictures are not allowed, PERIOD. It does not matter if taken by customers, management, girls or whoever. And your argument that customer’s faces would eventually be blurred is just pathetic. Do you think we have to trust you just because you own the place? If I drop by your club with a very big camera stating that I am a nice guy and all faces will be blurred, will you allow me to take any pictures?


The mere fact of being photographed is already a stress, regardless if one day pictures will become public or not. And shit does happen; the card or the hard drive may just change hands... I put myself in the place of the forum members that were photographed and are here making it public-what guarantee do they have that you will not retaliate by making their photos public? I have been to clubs in many places for more than a decade and this is the first time I took notice of something like this, it is just ridiculous. Take pictures of the places facilities and the girls at non-opening hours, just like every other club...


Vila Vertigo has not yet taken off, it is located in NRW, with lots of competitors, the strongest being Golden Time and they do something like this...unbelievable...

As for me, VV WAS scheduled for my next trip, in spite of the bad line-up reported here. After the incident, I will NEVER set my feet there, as long as the owner-management remains the same, regardless if they stop the crappy picture taking or not. I do not know about you guys, but for me the problem while planning a trip to NRW is the great amount of sauna clubs/FKKS/PTs to visit, one club less is welcome...

But surely Stephan will not regret that, he does not need or want our money, let's not disturb him any longer with our presence at the club...