Seeking Arrangements

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2492758]I agree with Brizlad. Asia should be on every monger's bucket list. In addition to what Brizlad recommended, I would add Thailand. Places like Singapore, China, and HK are going downhill with respect to mongering, IMHO, but they are still decent. And places like Japan and Korea are still pretty strong for our hobby.[/QUOTE]Don't know how Korea got on your "decent" list. My experience was that it was super hard to find solid FS providers. I can usually crack the nut in any country I go to with enough research — even Taiwan which is painfully hard to crack. But I never broke thru to more than a naughty handjob in Seoul. What's the secret decoder ring.

Agree Thailand and Japan are worth a visit. Thailand is easy and obvious. Japan takes a bit of research to find the Gaijin friendly (round eyes) options.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2492870]Don't know how Korea got on your "decent" list. My experience was that it was super hard to find solid FS providers. I can usually crack the nut in any country I go to with enough research even Taiwan which is painfully hard to crack. But I never broke thru to more than a naughty handjob in Seoul. What's the secret decoder ring.

Agree Thailand and Japan are worth a visit. Thailand is easy and obvious. Japan takes a bit of research to find the Gaijin friendly (round eyes) options.[/QUOTE]This will come off as a huge generalization, but so be it: Japanese and Korean doods are some of the horniest guys on the planet, so you know those countries have to have amazing mongering opportunities. Pretty much all Japanese and Korean wives just accept that their husbands are screwing pros regularly. But again, probably a generalization.

I went to Korea for the first time in 1999, and then work kept putting me back in Korea through 2003, so my experience may seem outdated, but I sometimes look at the Seoul thread and it looks like it's still a mongering hotspot (pre-covid, of course).

I remember one time, at a KTV, the girls announced that our time was over and so they put on a final show. I forget all the details, but the finale involved them getting naked and giving us all BBBJs in the room, LOL. But that said, almost all of my mongering activities in Korea was with someone else that knew the ropes, so I just tagged along for the fun ride. But it was just a crazy scene. I remember many nights before we went out drinking, we would go to a brothel and screw, and then go out drinking and eating, and end up at another brothel before going back to the hotel or just ordering outcall to the hotel, or order room service from the hotel SPA. In those days, almost every hotel's SPA had room service.

One unique thing about Korea is that they have Kiss Bangs (kiss rooms). You pick a girl, you go to a little room together, both brush your teeth and rinse with mouthwash, and then make out for 30 minutes. LOL, how crazy is that? But it was pretty awesome.

You're an obvious foreigner. I'm surprised you weren't approached by pimps on the street outside your hotel. That happened to me a lot, but I never talked to them since I was already set.

But again, maybe the scene isn't crazy as it used to be, but when I look at the Seoul thread, it brings back fond memories and I oftentimes get jealous.

Maybe I just got lucky that I had locals (work-related colleagues) that helped me.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2492758]I agree with Brizlad. Asia should be on every monger's bucket list. In addition to what Brizlad recommended, I would add Thailand. Places like Singapore, China, and HK are going downhill with respect to mongering, IMHO, but they are still decent. And places like Japan and Korea are still pretty strong for our hobby.[/QUOTE]Since it appears you are talking about the broader P4P category, has Hong Kong really gone downhill? For some reason, the Wan Chai hooker club scene has gone downhill. However, the walk-up scene had seemed to be going strong. I do realize the HK walk-up scene is impersonal and kind of wham-bam thank you ma'am affair. It is kind of fun though.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2493060]This will come off as a huge generalization, but so be it: Japanese and Korean doods are some of the horniest guys on the planet, so you know those countries have to have amazing mongering opportunities. Pretty much all Japanese and Korean wives just accept that their husbands are screwing pros regularly. But again, probably a generalization.

I went to Korea for the first time in 1999, and then work kept putting me back in Korea through 2003, so my experience may seem outdated, but I sometimes look at the Seoul thread and it looks like it's still a mongering hotspot (pre-covid, of course).

I remember one time, at a KTV, the girls announced that our time was over and so they put on a final show. I forget all the details, but the finale involved them getting naked and giving us all BBBJs in the room, LOL. But that said, almost all of my mongering activities in Korea was with someone else that knew the ropes, so I just tagged along for the fun ride. But it was just a crazy scene. I remember many nights before we went out drinking, we would go to a brothel and screw, and then go out drinking and eating, and end up at another brothel before going back to the hotel or just ordering outcall to the hotel, or order room service from the hotel SPA. In those days, almost every hotel's SPA had room service.

One unique thing about Korea is that they have Kiss Bangs (kiss rooms). You pick a girl, you go to a little room together, both brush your teeth and rinse with mouthwash, and then make out for 30 minutes. LOL, how crazy is that? But it was pretty awesome.

You're an obvious foreigner. I'm surprised you weren't approached by pimps on the street outside your hotel. That happened to me a lot, but I never talked to them since I was already set.

But again, maybe the scene isn't crazy as it used to be, but when I look at the Seoul thread, it brings back fond memories and I oftentimes get jealous.

Maybe I just got lucky that I had locals (work-related colleagues) that helped me.[/QUOTE]I forgot to mention the "sports massage. " Did you see those? I'm not 100% sure, but I think "sports massage" is code for "sauna. " Every sports massage place that I ever went into was a sauna experience. Girl bathes with you, then gives you a massage, then takes off her clothes and etc. And it ends with FS.

In 2004, my territory got switched to Singapore, but I went back to Korea in 2009 or 2010, and it seemed like the scene was still the same. However, I have to admit that most of my mongering in Korea was KTVs that my work related friends took me too. It's the usual drill: after the KTV, you negotiate with the manager to take the girl back to the hotel with you for overnight.

But I guess long story short on Korea is that I got lucky with my Korean friends taking care of me.

BTW, Singapore in the mid-2000's was also amazing. Orchard Towers is known as the "four floors of (rhymes with hoars)." It is a building with a dozen bars, and most of the bars were take out places. Almost every shopping center had a "health center," on the top floor, which was a FS MP / sauna, and then there was the Geylang District. Oh, man, that was quite a scene in those days. Hundreds of pros on the streets. Indos on one street. Malays on another. Indians on another. Chinese on another. Etc. The prices were amazingly low. Maybe around $60 for an hour. And a ST hotel was $20 per hour. Singapore isn't like that anymore. I would no longer recommend it as a mongering destination. But now I digress. Sorry.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2493060]This will come off as a huge generalization, but so be it: Japanese and Korean doods are some of the horniest guys on the planet, so you know those countries have to have amazing mongering opportunities. Pretty much all Japanese and Korean wives just accept that their husbands are screwing pros regularly. But again, probably a generalization.

I went to Korea for the first time in 1999, and then work kept putting me back in Korea through 2003, so my experience may seem outdated, but I sometimes look at the Seoul thread and it looks like it's still a mongering hotspot (pre-covid, of course).

I remember one time, at a KTV, the girls announced that our time was over and so they put on a final show. I forget all the details, but the finale involved them getting naked and giving us all BBBJs in the room, LOL. But that said, almost all of my mongering activities in Korea was with someone else that knew the ropes, so I just tagged along for the fun ride. But it was just a crazy scene. I remember many nights before we went out drinking, we would go to a brothel and screw, and then go out drinking and eating, and end up at another brothel before going back to the hotel or just ordering outcall to the hotel, or order room service from the hotel SPA. In those days, almost every hotel's SPA had room service.

One unique thing about Korea is that they have Kiss Bangs (kiss rooms). You pick a girl, you go to a little room together, both brush your teeth and rinse with mouthwash, and then make out for 30 minutes. LOL, how crazy is that? But it was pretty awesome.

You're an obvious foreigner. I'm surprised you weren't approached by pimps on the street outside your hotel. That happened to me a lot, but I never talked to them since I was already set.

But again, maybe the scene isn't crazy as it used to be, but when I look at the Seoul thread, it brings back fond memories and I oftentimes get jealous.

Maybe I just got lucky that I had locals (work-related colleagues) that helped me.[/QUOTE]First I got to agree with your generalization. I know the PC world wants to say people are all the same but they aren't. And I know quite a few asian guys who have told me straight up it's as you say. It's culturally different there. That said in Korea you need an in in order to play in that world. Even tho it's tamer these days; I am sure it's still off the hook for the locals. But they don't let foreigners crack the shell. That's why your experience was so different. You had an in sounds totally awesome.

In Taiwan I was able to get a Line broker and arrange Karaoke under heavy security no joke all thanks to a connection I made here on ISG. Without that Taiwan is a chaste ghost town. Same for Seoul. Just never cracked the shell.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2493197]First I got to agree with your generalization. I know the PC world wants to say people are all the same but they aren't. And I know quite a few asian guys who have told me straight up it's as you say. It's culturally different there.[/QUOTE]Midwestern is an expert on Asia. On my few business trips to Asia, my male colleagues essentially compartmentalize their extracurricular sex lives from their wives and family. It's all quite accepted including formal mistresses. It is a cultural aspect different from what we know in Western society.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2493197]That said in Korea you need an in in order to play in that world. Even tho it's tamer these days; I am sure it's still off the hook for the locals. But they don't let foreigners crack the shell. That's why your experience was so different. You had an in sounds totally awesome.[/QUOTE]Yeah, you're right. In the past couple of days, I started recalling my experiences in Korea, and I also recalled at least a half dozen episodes of racism towards me, because I'm a foreigner. So, I bet it is hard to monger as a foreigner in Korea without "an in. " Koreans are quite nationalistic, and it might be one of the most racists places on earth. I recall one of my Korean friends telling me that it goes back to Korea being occupied by the Japanese, and so Koreans are fiercely about Koreans, especially with our generation.

[QUOTE=JackOfNone;2493292]Hi Pessimist,

Thank you for your very valid advice and apologies for my delayed reply. Being a pessimist like you and an over-planner, I am on the same page. I have around 10 girls who are willing to meet during the 5 days with most willing to spend the night and the rest want to spend at least a couple of hours. For the ones that I really like, I am in regular touch on whassapp to groom them a little bit and try to see which one has a high possibility of flaking out. My backup plan in case one flakes out on a day is a really nice brothel with great girls which I used to frequent during my previous visits to Lisbon, so if someone flakes out, I would at least have some place to release the load. Failing that, there is a nice outcall agency with a good number of highly reviewed girls. Your advice about lining up two girls in one evening is interesting and I will see if I can implement it.

Since Corona was rising fast in Lisbon, I also looked at Germany the past few days as an alternative if it is no longer feasible / too risky to fly to Lisbon last minute due to high number of cases. Germany is easily reachable for me and does not require flights. Same strategy in Germany, line up at least double the number of girls as days, amd stay in touch on whassapp with the high potential ones, reconfirming with them multiple times they are still planning to meet. Lets see where I end up, Lisbon or Germany. Going to decide on Sunday. Bad thing about Germany is that I do not know the mongering scene as good as I know Lisbon, so high chances of ending up with blue balls if someone stands me up.

Hit a huge blocker today when my SA account was blocked only after a week from activation. Reason was: "solicitation of prostitution". I talked to cust service and they said that they had multiple verified reports of me trying to exchange sex for money, which of course is what I was doing. Since I was being a little bit explicit with girls (did not mention sex, but things like 'doing what people do to make babies, except we are not going to make babies' maybe someone got offended and reported me. In addition, I had something like "looking for PPM arrangements" in my profile description. The cust service also said that I was banned from creating a profile on SA ever and if I did, they would pursue the case with legal authorities. Fortunately, I had moved most conversations to whassapp so most of the arrangements in Lisbon and Germany are not affected. Although there was a cutie in Germany whose number I do not have and I am fuming.

My question is, has this happened with anyone? And do you think I should take the risk to create the profile again? Also, if I create it again, what precautions should I take? I know I should move the conversation from SA to other mediums ASAP, but what is acceptable or not acceptable to discuss on SA? I learnt the lesson about profile description and going to mention anything about PPM if I create the profile again.[/QUOTE]Oh no. Very sorry to hear. I guess that means you lost your 80 or 90 bucks fee to the site? That is a bit crummy on their part keeping the money and revoking your subscription.

SA kicks girls out extremely frequently. I lost count of how many girls said to me that their account got suspended. (I have directly been responsible for getting one girl kicked off the site at least 30 times. She is a scammer, and every time I spot her I immediately flag her to the admin and they do listen to me / perhaps others also who may be complaining and she is kicked out but she gets a new name and resurfaces on the site in less than a week. It has become a bit of joke). Many girls get their account suspended because guys complain about them about anything silly, or the admin does not like something has in her profile, etc. Girls do not pay, it doesn't cost them anything (except contacts), and if the girl is serious and dedicated, she will reestablish a new account and is back on the site. Sometimes, it also happens that the girl's account is suspended temporarily but the admin reinstates their accounts back after some quick verification.

Generally SA admin is far more tolerant of the guys because we pay. They hate to lose paying subscribers. I have been on the site for more than 4, nearing 5 years now and never had any problems. For the last couple of months I am no longer paying though, as my 3 month subscription ran out and I did not renew it as I am not looking to meet any girls until the pandemic is over / a reliable vaccine is fully available.

I am surprised they revoked your subscription. Of course I don't know what all the guys are saying to the girls. But several sugarbabes that I met have told me that by and large more than 50% of messages they receive are pretty nasty, explicit, etc. Yet SA admins don't seem to be kicking out such guys form the site.

My guess is that they cut your subscription because you had explicit discussion of money for sex. If you had said "oh baby, you look so hot, you make me horny, I want to lick your pussy, fuck you in the ass, fill you up with my hot goo, blah blah" they are OK with that even though the girl might find it disgusting. But if you say "I will give you 150 bucks if you will provide BJ", although what you said is far more respectful than the prior dialog, it is considered solicitation. SA is trying hard to not get taken down like backpage, so they will not allow it.

Normally, I stay away from all references to sex. When the girls ask, I say "yes, I give allowance". When they say how much I may say "well, it depends but in the past it has ranged between 200 to 300 a week". If the girl says what do you expect from me for that money, I will say "I just want to get to know you, have an enjoyable time and hope we are both happy". If she presses "what will we do when we meet" I say "it depends on what we each like, no two meets are identical as every girl likes something different". Basically, I refuse to get pinned down. Any girl with some brain realizes that 200 is a large enough amount that sex is to be expected. In any case, if she misunderstood and tells me "no sex" after we are in the room, I will of course not give her 200 or 300 or whatever; she will be sent back with nothing.

I am also surprised about PPM getting you into trouble. A lot of girls also have PPM in their profile description. If there is no sex, then it is absolutely legal to give her money on a per meet basis. It is the combination of PPM and sex that makes it illegal. But yeah, instead of PPM, you might say "will give allowance". In the discussion, you can talk how the allowance works.

I realize you were trying to be more obvious because you had a short amount of time and you are trying to close the deal with certainty. This is the pitfall of short term visits when on the road. If you were living in Lisbon permanently, you can take your time and be very discreet in how you say things in discussions.

Also, I am curious if SA has the same rules in all countries. I always wondered about this and don't know the answer. For instance, in a country where prostitution is quite legal, why should SA ban anyone when they discuss money for sex? Say, Germany. Prostitution is quite legal. If a German guy proposes money for sex on SA, will the SA admin kick out the guy? On what basis? What if an American dude proposes money for sex on SA to a German girl? It is illegal for the American but legal for the German girl. So, perhaps they will stop it. What if the American dude is visiting Germany, finds a German local girl while he is in DE and proposes money for sex? Technically, it should be legal as both parties are located in DE where prostitution is legal. But in all this, does SA know where the guy and girl are located? I don't think so. They don't have location specific information on all the parties all the time. SO, my guess is, they just are putting a blanket ban on any dialog of money for sex.

Lesson learned. Hope it works out for you whether you get back on SA again, or with the girls you already have in hand. Good luck.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2493379]Yeah, you're right. In the past couple of days, I started recalling my experiences in Korea, and I also recalled at least a half dozen episodes of racism towards me, because I'm a foreigner. So, I bet it is hard to monger as a foreigner in Korea without "an in. " Koreans are quite nationalistic, and it might be one of the most racists places on earth. I recall one of my Korean friends telling me that it goes back to Korea being occupied by the Japanese, and so Koreans are fiercely about Koreans, especially with our generation.[/QUOTE]Most countries are protective of their women. They do not like rich foreigners outbidding them. The US has had a presence in Korea since the Korean war. Those soldiers bang the local women. When Korea was poor, they accepted it because they needed the money. Now they are rich and do not have to submit to that. Call it nationalism or racism. Plus, there is a perception that foreigners introduce disease so they are generally considered not welcome. In Korea and Japan, going to a brothel is like taking your friends to a bar or a strip club in the US. It is a form of male bonding. The only difference is they don't have an obsession on size like the US. There is also not a culture of feminism, but that too is changing. There is also a difference approach to sex. Sex is viewed more as pleasure a woman gives to a man. The man is more passive. The women is there to please you. The west looks at sex more like a conquest of women and what you can do to them.

First and foremost, SA is my go to here in the states and internationally. I am planning a trip to Puebla Mexico in two weeks. I have been active on SA for about 2 weeks now in Puebla. It's like shooting fish in a barrel. I can never get to all the girls that want to see me while I am there. SA is a little expensive and takes a little work, but well worth it in my opinion. Does anyone have any go to's in Puebla? I don't want to miss out on the best.

[QUOTE=JackOfNone;2493292]Hi Pessimist,

Thank you for your very valid advice and apologies for my delayed reply. Being a pessimist like you and an over-planner, I am on the same page. I have around 10 girls who are willing to meet during the 5 days with most willing to spend the night and the rest want to spend at least a couple of hours. For the ones that I really like, I am in regular touch on whassapp to groom them a little bit and try to see which one has a high possibility of flaking out. My backup plan in case one flakes out on a day is a really nice brothel with great girls which I used to frequent during my previous visits to Lisbon, so if someone flakes out, I would at least have some place to release the load. Failing that, there is a nice outcall agency with a good number of highly reviewed girls. Your advice about lining up two girls in one evening is interesting and I will see if I can implement it.

Since Corona was rising fast in Lisbon, I also looked at Germany the past few days as an alternative if it is no longer feasible / too risky to fly to Lisbon last minute due to high number of cases. Germany is easily reachable for me and does not require flights. Same strategy in Germany, line up at least double the number of girls as days, amd stay in touch on whassapp with the high potential ones, reconfirming with them multiple times they are still planning to meet. Lets see where I end up, Lisbon or Germany. Going to decide on Sunday. Bad thing about Germany is that I do not know the mongering scene as good as I know Lisbon, so high chances of ending up with blue balls if someone stands me up.

Hit a huge blocker today when my SA account was blocked only after a week from activation. Reason was: "solicitation of prostitution". I talked to cust service and they said that they had multiple verified reports of me trying to exchange sex for money, which of course is what I was doing. Since I was being a little bit explicit with girls (did not mention sex, but things like 'doing what people do to make babies, except we are not going to make babies' maybe someone got offended and reported me. In addition, I had something like "looking for PPM arrangements" in my profile description. The cust service also said that I was banned from creating a profile on SA ever and if I did, they would pursue the case with legal authorities. Fortunately, I had moved most conversations to whassapp so most of the arrangements in Lisbon and Germany are not affected. Although there was a cutie in Germany whose number I do not have and I am fuming.

My question is, has this happened with anyone? And do you think I should take the risk to create the profile again? Also, if I create it again, what precautions should I take? I know I should move the conversation from SA to other mediums ASAP, but what is acceptable or not acceptable to discuss on SA? I learnt the lesson about profile description and going to mention anything about PPM if I create the profile again.[/QUOTE]SA specifically frowns on PPM because it smacks of prostitution. So everyone should avoid that word. Girls don't like it anyhow (unless they are pros). It's always a gift / allowance. And definitely don't be so explicit as "making babies". Private time, intimate time, room time, adult time. They will al work equally well. I usually say "if we really like each other like I think we will we will want to go private. " Or "do what adults do when they like each other". They know what you are talking about.

Best of course to take it off SA.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2493585]SA specifically frowns on PPM because it smacks of prostitution. So everyone should avoid that word. Girls don't like it anyhow (unless they are pros). It's always a gift / allowance. And definitely don't be so explicit as "making babies". Private time, intimate time, room time, adult time. They will al work equally well. I usually say "if we really like each other like I think we will we will want to go private. " Or "do what adults do when they like each other". They know what you are talking about.

Best of course to take it off SA.[/QUOTE]I never, never talk money or sex on SA. I tell them I would love to see them. Get their text number. And have those conversations. I have been using SA for years.

[QUOTE=JackOfNone;2493632]Yep, lesson learnt definitely! Unfortunately an expensive lesson. Definitely going to be more subtle on SA in future and going to take the conversation to other mediums ASAP. So if I understand correctly, you know of people creating other profiles after getting banned and SA not being able to judge that this was the same person? Any legal or criminal action seems a very long shot if this is the case.[/QUOTE]Only women. I don't know any other men. But yes, women are kicked out quite frequently. Often for no reason whatsoever, because the site is not very stable. But girls do not pay, so no loss for them. Sometimes, the site reinstates their membership on their own; sometimes, the girl takes a new membership (free of course) with a new name.

I doubt that they will file any legal suit which is expensive for them as well. One thing I know, the site hates to lose paying customers and hates to spend money. But the mere threat of such legal action is enough to deter most violators. Also, they can refer you to local police if it comes to it. Even that is not something they prefer in my view because it is unwanted attention. If you use a new name and cut out all references to sex / money exchange, then they should let you live in peace.

Given the recent experience of JackOfNone, with him being kicked off of SA, it makes me wonder if there is a near perfect substitute for SA.

When I was on SA a few years ago, I remember there was another site that was doing the same thing. I looked at it, and to my surprise, many of the SBs on SA were also on this other website too. I forget the name of this other site.

I just googled sugar baby dating just now, and it looks like there are several alternatives. However, rather than do a deep dive due diligence research of these other sites, I figured it would be more useful to tap the experience and expertise of the members of this forum.

Anyone know of a good alternative to SA? Especially something that can be used in many different countries, like SA? People reporting on their personal experiences on an alternative site, especially when it was used abroad, would be particularly appreciated.

For me, the reason I ask is not just for JackOfNone, but also for myself. I recently tried to reactivate my old SA subscription, but I got blocked. I was trying to renew it from Shanghai, and so maybe the VPN triggered the block. I realize that I can contact customer service, but now I am thinking about trying out another site.

TIA.

In my view, the strength of local listings is most important. If a sugar daddy site has 10,000 babes in Munich but only a few hundred in my home city, it does not help me much. I have only used secret benefits and [URL]sugardaddy.com[/URL], and only for short periods. I didn't like the usage based pricing on secret benefits and the quality and quantity of girls was worse than on SA. That was 3 years ago, and things may have improved. I also did not travel when I had secret benefits subscription and who knows if it had better listings in other cities. This is why I think it is important for guys to check out sites which are good in their area. I like SA, it has a good number of girls and quality is good. Granted many "girls" are scammers but that may be true on other sugarbabe sites as well. How can a site weed out scammer girls anyway? They can demand to see full identification before allowing a girl to obtain account but that may deter many girls to not join the site at all.

I feel for Jack, but in reality that may happen on other sites as well. Sites want to stay alive and not be shut down by LE. If solicitation happens on the site openly, it is at big risk. The site owners are making ridiculous amounts of money. They would do anything to keep that money coming in, so it is in their interest to remove even traces of solicitation and make it appear like SA is very clean.

BFsie is not in this thread I guess but he is a long time user of sugarbabe babes and he is in DE I think. I don't know if SA is the best site to use in DE. They may have a local site which is better than SA. Guys should do their own research and see what works for them locally.