German FKK Clubs - Lounge and chat area

[QUOTE=Optimist; 1348493]It happens. Every girl almost will tell you of instances.

And don't think that long experience in clubs will make you immune. It can happen out of the blue.

You need to be very clear headed about what you are doing. It may be a fantasy world in the clubs at first but it can easily become very real.

There are no rules.

If you find it happening you need to ask.

1. What is it in you that needs what the girl is supplying.

2. Vice versa.

3. What are you doing to your family if you have one?

4 The girl may be taking advantage of you but she may also be very vulnerable.

5. If you really are in love then matters of geography will be overcome.

6 To what extent is it a club fuelled fantasy. Does it survive when you meet her and share the housework?

7 if you do love someone in a club, then maybe the greatest act is to leave them alone? (Or maybe not?)

I suspect the best outcome is that both sides recognise that if they cannot overcome the complexities of the situation then it is best to cool off and become friends. People who have been in love can make good friends. They have shared something valuable.

Just my stray thoughts on a very serious subject[/QUOTE]Very wise words as usual Optimist, I think you put in writing what happened to most of us but we hardly admit it. And what is particularly true is that the experience as a monger does not make you immune. It happened to me to have very deep feelings for a girl not when I was a newbie but later on after years of experience.

What is really hard is when it comes to make the decision to leave the girl alone instead pursuing a dream, it happened to me once and it was really hard and got along with it thanks to a one of my very best friends who is also my fateful mate in the clubs but as of today I have no idea if I could have the same coldness I had almosta couple of years ago.

[QUOTE=Sybarite2006;1348244]Based on my own experiences I came perilously close to falling in love. Crazy right over a WG but the heart has its own logic![/QUOTE]Affairs of the heart have no logic.

[QUOTE=Optimist; 1348493]It happens. Every girl almost will tell you of instances.

And don't think that long experience in clubs will make you immune. It can happen out of the blue.

You need to be very clear headed about what you are doing. It may be a fantasy world in the clubs at first but it can easily become very real.

There are no rules.

If you find it happening you need to ask.

1. What is it in you that needs what the girl is supplying.

2. Vice versa.

3. What are you doing to your family if you have one?

4 The girl may be taking advantage of you but she may also be very vulnerable.

5. If you really are in love then matters of geography will be overcome.

6 To what extent is it a club fuelled fantasy. Does it survive when you meet her and share the housework?

7 if you do love someone in a club, then maybe the greatest act is to leave them alone? (Or maybe not?)

I suspect the best outcome is that both sides recognise that if they cannot overcome the complexities of the situation then it is best to cool off and become friends. People who have been in love can make good friends. They have shared something valuable.

Just my stray thoughts on a very serious subject[/QUOTE]Just remember that most people who have been conned had no idea while it was going on. Many of these girls are out to manipulate you for your money. Plain and simple. In the rare instance that there is something real there, think about what will happen when yo bring this girl home to meet your family / friends. A young hottie from Romania / Hungary / Russia with an old fukk like you. Very few relationships can last through this type of thing. Like I said before, see what happens if you say you may be in for a financial crisis, possibly bankrupt. Also, will she trust you, as a confirmed monger? Will you trust her, as a confirmed ho? It's nice to think about a real relationship but keep it in your fantasy world. Better to be wistful than regretful.

[QUOTE=Sybarite2006; 1348244]Based on my own experiences I came perilously close to falling in love with.

A couple of girls at Palace and the only thing that prevented me was in the first case the girl left Palace and the second case I left Germany!

It got to the point where I was spending increasing amounts of time with the girl in the club and thinking about her when not there and then we exchanged numbers and began to communicate outside. If she hadn't left I don't know what would haave happened but I was ready to do anything for her. Crazy right over a WG but the heart has its own logic!

I was wondering if anyone has had similar experiences they'd like to share?[/QUOTE]I have similar thoughts to smoky and optimist

I can't say that I have ever in been in love with a WG. I don't live in Europe and have never been there long enough to get to that point.

There have been several girls in several countries that I felt an immediate connection with. In these instances we communicated outside of the club but it never came to anthything. Although I had intial desire to keep lines open, I always ended up to a more practical line of thinking that caused me to back off either entirely or to just be SMS friends:

- the girl lives in another country and seeing her on a regular basis if very difficult.

- her profession is not conducive to being a girl friend. I am NOT judging and saying because of what they do they are lower than myself on the social ladder. I view myself as no better than they are because I'm buying what they are selling, we are equals in that respect. What I do mean is that they see 10+ guys a day for weeks on end. Think about your GF or wife taking 50 cocks by Friday, how does that make you feel? Although many have a desire to leave the business (and most will sooner or later) the reality is that they are doing this at this moment in time. If I did get to the point where I loved a girl, I certainly wouldn't want her to work in an FKK and to have her to myself. In the short term, this is simply not going to happen.

- although I felt there was something there, the reality was that sometimes the little head likes to convice the big one that there is more in common than in reality. If we were in a real relationship I don't think I could keep a girl in her early twenties interested nor vice versa. That age is still doing much growing and developing into the person they will ultimately become. I'm a much different man now than I was at that age and my interests are vastly different now.

- Although I never got asked for money or anything else, you sense of reality always clicks in there is a chance she has ulterior motives for making you feel a certain way. I am not saying that a girls sentiments are insincere, they very well may be. But also keep in mind these girls are smart in terms of how to manipulate a man. If you really think about it, for many guys it won't take more than a few choice words and batted eyelashes for them to believe in the fantasy with a girl they found attractive. Of course a man of 40+ WANTS to believe he's still desirable to a 20 something attractive you woman, but in the normal order outside the clubs, this happens infrequently. I have heard stories of girls hooking a guy and getting him emotionally invested; once this was done they need help with rent, or a sick mom, or something else. The carefully constructed house of cards would come crashing down by seeing this behavior for what it is; and the man goes along to perpetuate the fantasy.

- Although I'm not married, I do still date and will eventually be ready for a long term relationship. I found this sort of behavior with a WG in another country to be a distraction from me spending time pursuing a real relationship with a girl whom I'm more compatiable with in the country in which I live. If I spent 6 months chasing a futile relationship with a WG I won't be working to find something with real long term potential.

These are of course my reasons, and despite having been tempted, I'd never say NEVER to the possiblity. As someone else said, sometimes this hits people out of the blue. Sometimes I'm sure it can be real on both sides. Sometimes maybe distances, age, cultural, and socio-economic barries can be overcome to find something truely meaningful. Stranger things have happened, I just wouldn't bet on it.

[QUOTE=RonnieNorway;1348543]But would you want to have a relationship with a women that has been used by countless men is also another question? I would have problem to spend my life with such a women. Plus I have never encountered in real life or heard stories of a working girl who lead a healthy life and amazing marriage. Interesting question though![/QUOTE]These cases exist, it happened that a WG left the job, got married with the customer she fell in love and they are still happy together. In my monger's life I witnessed at least 3 of these cases and maybe at least one very famous case in Hessen is well known to most of the regular and senior members of this forum but however I will not do names.

It happens, as The Cane wrote there is no logic at all when talking about heart things and love.

[quote=smoky jack;1348240]i bought a 5 day train pass that will allow me to go anywhere on the ice high speed train network for 200 euros. good for solo travellers.[/quote]i really can't see the benefit of touring clubs with a 200 euro five day ice train pass. unless your planning on hitting all the major cities like munich, berlin, frankfurt and dusseldorf and hitting one club before moving on. you'd be much better off renting a car for a week and paying the same 200 euro's on the car and gas combined and being able to visit several clubs in an area like frankfurt or dusseldorf. am i correct in this thinking?

my question to sj: have you used this pass yet or is it for an upcoming trip? how do you plan on using this pass in conjunction with club visits?

[QUOTE=Indi Companion;1348808]I witnessed at least 3 of these cases and maybe at least one very famous case in Hessen is well known to most of the regular and senior members of this forum but however I will not do names.[/QUOTE]Ok. Maybe a little more personal response.

I assume you don't mean me?. I know my antics have provided some entertainment for my fellow mongers over many years. I would have asked in a PM but you don't have a PM facility.

All I can say, from bitter / sweet and continuing experience, is you need to be tough as old boots to handle this sort of situation. I find it hard to know how to react when a girl says she wants you to meet her mother in Transylvania!

The chances are that if a girl in a club really has feelings for you, she will be emotionally chaotic (especially given the complexities of her job). One thing I have noticed is that the three girls who have had "feelings" for me seem to have all been deserted by their fathers and to have left their husbands.

I just added these words because the more we are all aware of this situation the better we may cope. Unless we are the admirable sort of monger who does not stray across boundaries

[QUOTE=Breadman;1348862]I really can't see the benefit of touring clubs with a 200 euro five day ICE train pass. Unless your planning on hitting all the major cities like Munich, Berlin, Frankfurt and Dusseldorf and hitting one club before moving on. You'd be much better off renting a car for a week and paying the same 200 euro's on the car and gas combined and being able to visit several clubs in an area like Frankfurt or Dusseldorf. Am I correct in this thinking?[/QUOTE]Well, he only needs to go from NRW to Frankfurt to Berlin or vice versa and has probably already spent well in excess of 100 on the fuel alone. Unless you rent a really small car that is no fun and drive slowly. And it's hard to get 5 days for 100, those offers usually have restrictions in mileage and / or you need to return it at the same place.

But it does not only depend on the price it really depends what you want. For maximum flexibility a car can't be beat. On the other hand with public transport you can actually get some things done while you travel, you can relax / sleep, watch the scenery, meet people, you can drink, don't need to worry about parking spaces, bad weather, accidents or your car not starting up in the winter.

Presuming you can drive. Go to Europcar and you can pick up a decent Automatic Merc Benz B class from Friday to Monday for €125.

[QUOTE=Breadman; 1348862]I really can't see the benefit of touring clubs with a 200 euro five day ICE train pass. Unless your planning on hitting all the major cities like Munich, Berlin, Frankfurt and Dusseldorf and hitting one club before moving on. You'd be much better off renting a car for a week and paying the same 200 euro's on the car and gas combined and being able to visit several clubs in an area like Frankfurt or Dusseldorf. Am I correct in this thinking?

My question to SJ: have you used this pass yet or is it for an upcoming trip? How do you plan on using this pass in conjunction with club visits?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Optimist; 1348913]Ok. Maybe a little more personal response.

I assume you don't mean me.

All I can say, from bitter / sweet and continuing experience, is you need to be tough as old boots to handle this sort of situation. I find it hard to know how to react when a girl says she wants you to meet her mother in Transylvania!

I just added these words because the more we are all aware of this situation the better we may cope. Unless we are the admirable sort of monger who does not stray across boundaries[/QUOTE]Sorry Optimist, still did not have time to pay for the PM etc. Services as far as I cannot pay by credit card for obvious reasons.

For aswering your question, I did not mean you at all. Unfortunately we have never met even if I think we have common knowledges. But it will happen for sure one of these days that we meet around, at least I hope, it would be my pleasure and honour.

Yes, it is strange how emotionally works such kind of situation for a WG, I also know it first hand but then we can only live and learn. Sometimes I have that feeling tickling in the back of my brain that I did a lot of mistakes in this field and kind of situations

But then I try not to live thinking about the past but the future. For being a professional monger I am still quite young, well under my 40s, so I know that I will face many of these situations in the future and I am facing one also now but I am improving in handling it and in learning what I really want, always keeping in mind that the girls are human beings like we are and they deserve our highest respect in these situations.

I am also trying to be as tough as hold boots but sometimes it is simply not so easy. I am envious sometimes of our colleagues that seem to be so hardened in this respect and look like they are never impacted by any feelings and are always able to keep any relationship within the club like a 100% business transaction. As for me sometimes I can sometimes I cannot, even after many years around. What can I say? I am a soft hearted guy and I like when I get invited to Transilvania to meet the parents, LOL!

Tkae care and thanks for your words, hope we will meet soon somewhere.

IC

[QUOTE=Smoky Jack;1348595]Just remember that most people who have been conned had no idea while it was going on. Many of these girls are out to manipulate you for your money. Plain and simple. In the rare instance that there is something real there, think about what will happen when yo bring this girl home to meet your family / friends. A young hottie from Romania / Hungary / Russia with an old fukk like you. Very few relationships can last through this type of thing. Like I said before, see what happens if you say you may be in for a financial crisis, possibly bankrupt. Also, will she trust you, as a confirmed monger? Will you trust her, as a confirmed ho? It's nice to think about a real relationship but keep it in your fantasy world. Better to be wistful than regretful.[/QUOTE]"Love brings up anything unlike itself for the purpose of healing." A very famous expression.

The clubs and brothels, market places, where working girls and mongers meet are like alchemistic laboratories. On the surface, it looks like / seems to be an exchange of money versus the licence to use a (female) body for a certain time. But below that, we all bring in our enormous amounts of "lead", hoping that at least there a tiny bit gets transformed into "gold"! All of our beloved and well maintained fears, resulting in our acquired stupid behaviours in relating to others, all of our false identifications (social ladder etc.) we are so proud of, these we bring along into the club! And in this "laboratory", by a mostly and vastly unconscious, but nevertheless highly efficient "magic" network leading to certain encounters, all these will be heated up, put into focus and amplified, amplified, amplified. Many mongers think that they will escape themselves by visiting the clubs and brothels. Only to find, that they are confronted there in an even more intense way with their own deficits.

No one can escape himself. You will always be confronted with what you carry inside and brought along unconsciously."you can't always get what you want, but for sure you will get what you need (to become more conscious!)". Or to put it short: we always attract what we need!

One of the first things, that will happen if we fall in love (there) , we will be directly and massively confronted with our beloved roles (for example as a monger or a working girl). Love directly comes from / involves the core of human beings, and the main purpose is to melt down / remove all those false shields and social artifacts we built up in our life to prevent ourselves from being alive and being our true selves.

[QUOTE=RonnieNorway;1349015]I mean trust me these girls know they are damaged goods.
But then they are human.[/QUOTE]How would you describe yourself?

[QUOTE=Optimist;1348913]The chances are that if a girl in a club really has feelings for you, she will be emotionally chaotic (especially given the complexities of her job). One thing I have noticed is that the three girls who have had "feelings" for me seem to have all been deserted by their fathers and to have left their husbands.[/QUOTE]Any idea about the mental and emotional situation of a man, who has "feelings" for a working girl? Is he still in love with Mama, the only person who abused him so well (emotionally)?
How come, that men are so sure about what is going on with "the girls". Because instead of speaking about themselves they like to only listen and suck in information like a sponge? (you pay for what you hear!)
Hey, what "things" would "girls" notice about you and your former life?

[QUOTE=RonnieNorway;1349275]Just in case some of you might get the wrong message what I meant was that the girls have very low self esteem of themselves even though they appear tough on the outside.[/QUOTE]How can you be so sure? Maybe you just look in a mirror seeing yourself!

Let's assume it is true what you say: but then, why are we attracted to girls with "very low self-esteem", [B][red]in brothels[/B][/red]? Because we have such a high (or even an overdose of) self-esteem, at least sort of, that needs to be compensated (or donated)?

And now let's imagine a really tragic story, let's assume it takes place in the best possible setting, in a german brothel: a man with (very) low self esteem, successful in compensating his deficit with money, meets a working girl with (very) low self esteem, trying to compensate her situation with succesfully selling her attractive body. Unconsciously scanning the respective amounts of detectable self-esteem. And then, magic, magic, they both start to have "feelings" for each other. And they confuse "to have feelings" with love.

What outcome would you expect? Optimist already told us: emotionally chaotic!
Of course we know this is only because of the girl's situation ....

I will be in Zurich in Dec and will have the weekend to monger. Since mongering is expensive in Zurich, I figured it will be better to check out the FKKs in Germany. My dilemma is if I should go to Frankfurt or Munich. There are a lot of reports on Oase and Palace, but I not sure if there are any good ones in Munich. I will be taking a connecting flight from Frankfurt in Feb was planning to check out Oase and Palace then and as such was inclined to check out FKK scene in Munich this time. However if FKK scene in Munich is not worth checking out, then I might as well go to Frankfurt in Dec as well.

Newbie Monger

[QUOTE=RonnieNorway; 1349015]Reminds me what lulu of palace once said to me some time ago.

"you know I am a. If a man tell me he love me in my heart feel sorry and feel stupid for him. Working girls have no love to give"<- it really does sound like that.

But then they are human.[/QUOTE]Puts it in perspective LOL. I only met Lu Lu once, but that sure sounds like something she would say

[QUOTE=Nick The G; 1349213]How would you describe yourself?

Hey, what "things" would "girls" notice about you and your former life?[/QUOTE]I know personally that I have taken this introspective look at myself many times. I commented the other day that I treat the girls very well and sincerely view them as equals. I feel I am also "damaged goods" in the respect that the hundreds if not over a 1000 women I've been with in 15 years of this would weigh heavy on the mind of a potential mate. I've had girl friends of 6-12 months in this same 15 year time horizon. I never cheated on them, but I always feared of the reaction I'd receive if I disclosed my addiction. In this sense I have every bit as much baggage as the WG and dare not judge them. Despite the obstacles of dating a WG (which are plentiful) there is perhaps this one benefit that its possible a WG and mongerer could accept each others past easier than people who've never been exposed to this sort of life. At least it's eyes wide open.

I feel like a hypocrite, but if a past girlfriend had told me she used to be a prostitute before I met her it might have changed the way I saw her. Realizing that if I may choke on this, how do I expect a normal girl to respond if I tell her this? I've avoided this cross roads to this point, but eventually I will want to marry and have to make a decision as to speak then or forever hold my peace.