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[QUOTE=Pistons;2181329]OK, I admit you are right here. But technicalities. LR and Magnum are the same distance from Dusseldorf it seems too as a random fact.[/QUOTE]Point was that the poster asked the question as to which city had better FKKs. The response discussed FKKs worth visiting and gave a response. Bringing up Magnum, a club that we posters agree is shit in a subsequent post was a "matter-of-fact" statement that only served an argumentative purpose.
Anyhoo, do most posters here agree that it would be logistically better to stay in Dusseldorf than to stay in Cologne if exploring multiple quality clubs?
I would hate to give bad advice to the original question asker.
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[QUOTE=McAdonis;2181345]Observation #1: At a larger club like Sharks, the customers do not all sit there and wait for the same WGs. In other words, I don't see 80% of the men going with the same 20% of WGs. I could suggest several possible reasons for this: (1) some men are mongering under time constraints and will settle for the best option available, (2) every man's taste is different as is their definition of what constitutes a stunner, (3) some men are just lucky enough to be able to appreciate beauty of all kinds and choose based on their mood. If the above statements are true, does this not mean that 80% of the WGs have roughly the same demand curve?
Observation #2: There is probably an economic principle to more concisely describe this idea. But essentially, it would go something like this: Two hypothetical customers who have the same net worth and same income walk into an auto showroom where there are only two cars availabe: Porsche 911 and VW Passat. Customer #1 would consider purchasing the Porsche but only if the price difference between the two cars was less than $20K. Customer #2 will only consider the Porsche even if the Porsche costs $150K more.
Caveat for the above observations may be the Asian mongers who seem to all go after the same 10-15 WGs. Some of these Asian mongers are just filthy rich. Some of these mongers have modest wealth, save for months prior to each trip, but fit the profile of Customer #2 above.[/QUOTE]Here is my attempt to address your very pertinent observations. My apologies to forum readers who care only about girls and not the economics underlying their pricing behaviour.
On Observation #1, girls in each segment see a different demand curve. But of course, one can average them all out and produce an overall general demand curve. That is in fact what is done by governments and commentators in macro-economic analysis to understand and portray the state of the national economy. However, it becomes less useful at the micro-economic level where firms have to decide on how they want to price and sell particular products in different regions or localities.
So, addressing your points require segmental analysis. More highly desired girls (I avoid the use of the word stunner as it is subjective as you rightfully pointed out) will command a higher price, manifested in 1 hour rooms and additional amounts arising from upselling. Or in the case of Asian-hunting superstars, getting some hundreds of dollars with most of the time just sitting around, chatting and drinking. Less desired girls have to make do with the standard price and throw in perhaps additional promises to get the customer.
But to address the other points raised in these 2 observations, we have to consider the economic concept of 'Elasticity of Demand'.
First is 'Price Elasticity of Demand', which is inversely related to the gradient of the demand curve in your graph in your earlier post. In the case of a rich punter, the price elasticity of demand is Inelastic, meaning that he is willing to pay whatever price is necessary to secure his grl or his Porsche.
The price elasticity of demand is similarly inelastic for someone short of time. He has to pay 50 euros for the only doable girl he sees, even though the true utility value of that girl to him is only 30 euros. (There would however be a fortuitous match if the only girl he sees is that fat Asian pig, to whom he needs to pay only 30 euros!)
Second is Cross Elasticity of Demand which reflects the substitution effect. So, for example, a normal person might be willing to pay Evita 100 euros, but if she charges more, he would go instead for the fat Asian pig at 30 euros plus addtional services thrown in, assuming there are no other girls present. However, Badinsweet with an inelastic cross elasticity curve for superstars would only go for Evita even if she demands 200 euros and does not promise to send messages to him when he is away. (This is not a criticism, just an economics explanation :)).
[QUOTE=McAdonis;2181345]How about Artemis and the Austrians clubs who are slightly above 50 EUR per 30 min? Do they just leverage the fact that they have very few direct competitors in the immediate proximity?
I am not that knowledgable on World. When there were only three mega-clubs in the region, it's geographical remoteness probably didn't hurt it as much. But once Sharks started becoming popular, World seemed to go downhill, no? With regards to promotions and attracting WGs and customers, I would say that news of the next "hot club" does not travel very fast. Sharks was at its peak for me in 2014. Many veterans had already made the switch to Sharks as their primary club. But the hordes did not appear until 2016-2017.[/QUOTE]To address these points, we need to tackle a wholly different area of economics under Monopolistic Behaviour where basis for the demand and supply curves from those under Perfect Competion . Economic theory shows that the clearing price increases the greater the monopolistic position. There is almost perfect competition in Frankfurt which is why most can still get away with 50 euro sessions, while Artemis is a monopoly in Berlin. Similarly the Austrian clubs which are located quite far apart.
And my contention is still that World went downhill due to misguided management that drove the girls away, instead of finding ways to retain their top girls so that Sharks had no chance to grow.
Mauro also made a serious miss-step at around the same period in charging girls for food and having the silly 1-meal only for guests rule. The miss-steps by World and Oase drove many, including myself, to spend more time at Sharks.
And it was a self-reinforcing cycle; the resulting higher demand curve at Sharks led to increased supply, from about 40 girls when I first went there in the year it opened to almost 200 now! This led to greater profit margins that was ploughed back to infrastructure, increasing the attractiveness of the club, and thus raising the demand curve further. In contrast, note the amount of money wasted in Oase erecting all those Roman statues and building the over-priced VIP accomodation.
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[QUOTE=Takedown;2181267]Jana at Aca returned from Switzerland.
Ellie at Oase returned from Switzerland.
Ella / Kim at Oase returned from Switzerland.
Isabella at Samya returned from Switzerland.
Anja from various clubs went from Switzerland to Germany back to Switzerland back to Germany and back to Switzerland for now.[/QUOTE]I would add Kitty from YY as a recent return. She left YY for Switzerlanf about a month ago and was seen back at YY this past weekend. Sometimes it's better to be the big fish in a little pond than a little fish in a big pond.
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[QUOTE=Jolokia;2180932]Why some FKK girl upsell for licking ball, yet other girl provide licking ball as standard services?[/QUOTE]Some girl say they don't like it.
Makes them retch.
Some girls just love balls and just enjoy suckling on your balls like a new born babe at its mother's breast.
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[QUOTE=Takedown;2181267]Jana at Aca returned from Switzerland.
Ellie at Oase returned from Switzerland.
Ella / Kim at Oase returned from Switzerland.
Isabella at Samya returned from Switzerland.
Anja from various clubs went from Switzerland to Germany back to Switzerland back to Germany and back to Switzerland for now.[/QUOTE]I almost feel like 20% of all the girls I talk on the issue of former clubs have worked at Globe at one time. There are so many I lost count. Very high ratio or girls at Marina and Wellcum have worked there also. Raissa at Oase come to mind. A brunette at sharks who claimed to be Moroccan / German. Crina who I met at Palace once (wonder where she went). Etc etc.
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Tanktank: interesting theoretical point you make on the price elasticity. The clue is to hide it from the girls. Because they discuss between themselves what our levels on this matter is. Thus to me I think of it as a psychological game sometimes. The trick is to try and hide it from the girls. I normally fail at this one (LOL), but sometimes I hit the jackpot. Girls have that intuition which is so hard to trick! LOL! But then again, my price elasticity is rather low, so if I feel a girl is trying to abuse me regarding it, I will just pick up random girl #8, like McAdonis says he did at GT. I believe it was our retired nickname HB who once said something like: 'It is unfair to the other girls if you pay one girl more than the rest'. Perhaps the smartest thing I have read from that nick.
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[QUOTE=Chongmal;2181454]I would add Kitty from YY as a recent return. She left YY for Switzerlanf about a month ago and was seen back at YY this past weekend. Sometimes it's better to be the big fish in a little pond than a little fish in a big pond.[/QUOTE]Nice add. I would have thought another poster would have mentioned this. I guess she didn't want him to know.
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[QUOTE=TankTank123;2181450]Here is my attempt to address your very pertinent observations. My apologies to forum readers who care only about girls and not the economics underlying their pricing behaviour.[/QUOTE]Ya lahwy, Tankx2, you shouldn't have to apologize for that. I was only yanking your chain.
As far as the economics of pricing go, how about using taxi drivers as an analogy? They're similar. Half of them will go corrupt if regulation is lax. Half of them will stay good and just try to do their job in any case. Maybe 5-10% of them are smart enough to have a real conversation (I'm thinking of a poor country, which improves the analogy). And many of them will try to drive you round the long way, so you better keep your eye on the meter.
In well-run countries the price is standard and set by the meter. In poorly-run ones, where no-one is monitoring the taxi drivers, they will try to negotiate prices with the customer, and this will always be higher than the standard. As time goes by they invent more and more tricks and get more and more roguish, while the honest ones are pushed out of business. The result is that nobody wants to take a taxi any more. So this is an example where "the market sets the price" and the market ends up destroying itself.
In the case of WGs it's even worse, I would argue, because no guy wants the stress of haggling in the middle of a blowjob. So the girl is destroying the value she is supposed to be providing. You can't sell a no-value service. Boom goes the market.
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[QUOTE=Chongmal;2181454]I would add Kitty from YY as a recent return. She left YY for Switzerlanf about a month ago and was seen back at YY this past weekend. Sometimes it's better to be the big fish in a little pond than a little fish in a big pond.[/QUOTE]She was also there last summer & returned to GT then to YY.
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[QUOTE=TankTank123;2181450]On Observation #1, girls in each segment see a different demand curve. But of course, one can average them all out and produce an overall general demand curve. That is in fact what is done by governments and commentators in macro-economic analysis to understand and portray the state of the national economy. However, it becomes less useful at the micro-economic level where firms have to decide on how they want to price and sell particular products in different regions or localities.
So, addressing your points require segmental analysis. More highly desired girls (I avoid the use of the word stunner as it is subjective as you rightfully pointed out) will command a higher price, manifested in 1 hour rooms and additional amounts arising from upselling. Or in the case of Asian-hunting superstars, getting some hundreds of dollars with most of the time just sitting around, chatting and drinking. Less desired girls have to make do with the standard price and throw in perhaps additional promises to get the customer.
[/QUOTE]Thanks for the explanation of the principles.
Even the top superstar at Sharks, I have a hard time imagining that she makes quadruple or even triple the median WG. Speculating about the average salary would be guesswork, but I don't think the deviation between salaries is that high. If the median, is let's say 50K EUR net, I'd guess that 95 percent of the WGs are between 70K and 40K. My reasoning: With 200 WGs at Sharks, there is a lot of competition, and it becomes harder to stand out from the pack. Even if a superstar generates 10x more interest than the median WG, it would be hard for her to monetize on this demand, simply because she can't clone herself to satisfy the surplus demand for her. Some would say, "Well she earns passive income via Whatsapp and Western Union. Or she can establish her own rates". But how many of these whale customers (potentially fictional) exist?
With regards to inelasticity, I once met a guy who told me he made $70K gross, but spent $25K a year on the hobby. I am not criticizing this lifestyle. You only live once. But it'd be a mistake if he thought other mongers are as hardcore as he is. Is this trend of overbidding due to the fact that many mongers are over-estimating the demand for their must have WGs? I also once had a roommate who collected Air Jordan sneakers. He'd eat instant noodles for a month to be able to afford $2000 shoes. He'd travel long distances. Wait hours in front of stores. His obsession meant that he had to visit forums to find like-minded individuals. Why? Because 99.999 percent of the world just see trainers as trainers, spending between $50-150. I get the impression that some mongers are "limited edition collectors" and assume others are like them, resulting in unnecessary, imaginary bidding wars.
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[QUOTE=Pistons;2181470]I almost feel like 20% of all the girls I talk on the issue of former clubs have worked at Globe at one time. There are so many I lost count. Very high ratio or girls at Marina and Wellcum have worked there also. Raissa at Oase come to mind. A brunette at sharks who claimed to be Moroccan / German. Crina who I met at Palace once (wonder where she went). Etc etc.[/QUOTE]Most stunners I met at German FKK clubs said they worked at globe, most only spot go to globe as it is strict club.
These girls are rather free spirited so they cannot bare strict code for long time, but as long as globe provide good line up that changes, this trend of girls just spot going to globe for limited time serve our interest as we monger favor good line up that changes often so we can try new stunners, which is my problem in recent years.
However, at least I still do find 3 or 4 new stunners added every year still, but I do miss each time crazy amount of new stunners to fuck back in early years of 2010's. Globe may serve my interest as refresh line up can be good for mongers who seek for new stunners each time I go.
Artemis has quite new talents always, but quality of new girls dropped dramatically and old plastic graffiti painted big body girls stayed on. So I had to keep distance. Oceans actually got new talents all the time, but I almost always end up going with same girls there as new girls tend to be not stunner enough for me.
In the world of FKK, girls rotate around as much as monger rotate around, but these girls are more or less all in same pond going to few set clubs that they like between Switzerland, Germany and Austria and occasionally escort service.
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There are only 24 hours in a day, so the difference between a highly sought after girl and a middling girl has to come from other factors. Such as: extras, gifts, hotel visits at high prices, and so on. Obviously, gifts and hotel visits have no theoretical upper limits.
I doubt that there are any girls making north of quarter million a year, esepcially after (entry, stay) expenses.
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[QUOTE=TankTank123;2181450]
First is 'Price Elasticity of Demand', which is inversely related to the gradient of the demand curve in your graph in your earlier post. In the case of a rich punter, the price elasticity of demand is Inelastic, meaning that he is willing to pay whatever price is necessary to secure his grl or his Porsche.
.[/QUOTE]I agree with most of what you wrote in your well reasoned and articulated comment; however, I would disagree that price elasticity of demand has anything to do with being rich -- whether it comes to a girl or a Porsche. It depends on his utility or indifference curve. Of course, if the price is so high that it is beyond his budget, there is no intersection; it is simply out of his reach (like me wanting to fuck Jennifer Lawrence).
For example, no one would pay $20 (anyone can afford it) for a can of coke normally costing a buck; unless a specific person derives a commensurate utility from it (desperately thirsty at that moment, or some other reason).
In a club, a super rich dude might not fancy Evita at all, and may be totally indifferent between Evita and girl X. On the other hand, a totally smitten regular dude may pay whatever it takes to grab her for the max amount of time, as his utility is the greatest from acquiring that session.
So, from a girl's pov, she needs to catch not the super rich dudes but the super smitten dudes and fleece them completely until (a) they are out of money (b) they snap out of the dream.
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[QUOTE=Takedown;2181267]Jana at Aca returned from Switzerland.
Ellie at Oase returned from Switzerland.
Ella / Kim at Oase returned from Switzerland.
Isabella at Samya returned from Switzerland.
Anja from various clubs went from Switzerland to Germany back to Switzerland back to Germany and back to Switzerland for now.[/QUOTE]For sure, Jeni / Jana. De is so high level in bed to be able to succeed at Globe, when she is not even busy at Aca, being one of the very few German girls there. Just be serious about girls level, Globe potential is far higher than Lucy level in bed, or Wellcum for girls level in bed, just have to be able to get real potential from sexy girls.
Anja. Alb, even she is a nice girl but really not clever, was not even able to be busy at Sharks, so she went to Worms on Summer 2016, and was not accepted at Globe, but only Bumsalp. She is just not clever for this job, she can't succeed for business in Switzerland. A bit same for Kity, she is not able to work in Switzerland, as when you know a bit her, she is not able to work at crowded GT, when her very good friend Barbi was very able to be a GT star.
On the other hand, Megan is able, even not same level in bed, to compete at Globe, and prefer to be fucked for minimum 140 CHF, rather than going with everything for 50. She succeeds for her business for more than 1 year, she doesn't plan to return to Sharks, I'm happy my advice present was good for her, to thank her, and I'm proud of her, from end of August 2015 at Mainhattan when she made me dream, to Globe since end of April 2017 not so bad for her, even not modelling she could do if she got good advises, but not strong and confident enough in mind.
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[QUOTE=Jnpr30;2181792]I doubt that there are any girls making north of quarter million a year, esepcially after (entry, stay) expenses.[/QUOTE]I do know one girl who makes north of 250 k. But she does also do hotel visits etc in addition to FKK'ing. Over 300 k she actually claimed, and I believe her. Mostly volume. Pretty much no upsell although hotels are higher price. You can all guess who, but I won't tell.
