German FKK Clubs - Lounge and chat area

It is not necesarily about upper hand, but being made to feel an obligation. When the guy approaches girl, talks for a few minutes (or a lot of minutes) and then leaves with no room, at least some girls (or many girls) are pissed.

If the guy simply smiles at the girl or waves across the room, that is not same — you did not waste their time in any way.

If you are walking around the bar, she stops you in your tracks and makes her sales pitch for a minute or two, then it is the same as if SHE approached YOU and asked for a room. In that instance she has no good reason to be pi$$ed when a room offer is declined.

And in the dark light of Sharks and with my fading eye sight in such conditions, I can't make out if I really like a girl or not from far, unless she is up close and personal. It is so much easier if the girl approaches, gives me her full sales schpiel, perhaps some rubbing and necking and other samples of love, and during that period I can take time and enjoy it and decide whether to take or not.

Also, if I approach a girl, talk to her for 3 minutes, and then decide to walk away then it is so much more difficult to do that whole thing again. She might not be pi$$ed for wasted time in the first instance, but will surely be if it happens twice. Whereas, if the girl approaches me, no obligation is created. In fact, sometmes the girls approach a second and third time, as long as you are nice and polite in your declines. This is helpful with girls where I am on the fence and can't decide right away if it is a YES or NO.

[QUOTE=McAdonis;2189568]I always prefer to approach whether it is a regular or whether it is a new girl to me.

For the men who prefer to be approached, is it always about losing some bargaining leverage? Are there other reasons behind this preference? A WG's leverage is more dictated by how busy she is, how coveted she is. Whether you approach her or head nod and smile, they are both signals of interest on your part, so it seems she would have the upper hand immediately. But I'd say her upper hand existed well before the two of you ever laid eyes on each other. I could be wrong, but doesn't Helen, the new queen of Sharks, rarely approach? She knows her market value based on how many men are rooming her each day. That's where her upper hand comes from primarily!

Are there not better ways to disguise your interest? I sometimes smile, approach, talk for two minutes, wait for her to pop the room question then say "no", smile again and walk away. I've done that to WGs sometimes 10-15 visits in a row, to the point that they label me a time waster, and start to ignore me. Then five visits later, I ask her for a session. Do I do this deliberately? No, of course not. It is just me being indecisive and risk-averse, because I almost always go with regulars, preferably about 75 percent of the time. This technique is strategic, and thus not a viable option for a one-time-visitor.

At a club like Sharks where the bar makes you feel like you are walking around a race-track, sometimes WGs will catch me staring at them. The WG will motion for me to "come over", but I don't slow down, I just look back not breaking eye-contact. Or I might walk over and talk for only two minutes. I may do this several times in one night. Again I do not do this deliberately. My interaction is an honest communication of my level of interest in her: she piques my interest but not enough for me to commit. She may even notice me talking to regulars and realize that I am asking about her


.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Jnpr30;2189586]It is not necesarily about upper hand, but being made to feel an obligation. When the guy approaches girl, talks for a few minutes (or a lot of minutes) and then leaves with no room, at least some girls (or many girls) are pissed.

Also, if I approach a girl, talk to her for 3 minutes, and then decide to walk away then it is so much more difficult to do that whole thing again. She might not be pi$$ed for wasted time in the first instance, but will surely be if it happens twice. Whereas, if the girl approaches me, no obligation is created. In fact, sometmes the girls approach a second and third time, as long as you are nice and polite in your declines. This is helpful with girls where I am on the fence and can't decide right away if it is a YES or NO.[/QUOTE]If it is a WG I have never roomed with, and I know I am on the fence, then I eject from the conversation within 1-2 minutes. I never feel guilty about ejecting because I know I had an honest intent to buy. Maybe not at that very moment, but perhaps later that day or 15 visits into the future. If I were to stay five minutes or more on a busy night, I might feel the obligation to buy, otherwise not. If I go into a shoe store and ask to try on shoes, I never feel obligated to buy. If a WG gets pi $$ed for me wasting 60 seconds (which frankly I can't remember ever happening), then I am grateful that she has shown her true colors. It tells me that she lacks patience and probably is frustrated at her lack of business. Neither of which bodes well for a good attitude during the session.

As I wrote, I've literally had 15-20 short conversations with WGs before trying them out for the first time. When I approach, I am looking for open language 90 percent of the time before entering their personal space. So I may stop. Look at them. And wait for a response. If she smiles then I approach. If she motions for me to come over, then I approach. If she giggles and playfully gives me a middle finger or calls me a name, I approach. If she refuses to acknowledge me, then I leave her alone.

Well, obviously there is no right or wrong answer when it comes to this issue. A lot of this depends on the guy's personality, comfort levels and preferences, etc.

I guess we all agree that taking up and wasting a large chunk of a girl's time when having no intention to take her to the room is not a gentlemanly thing. Yet, I see this often. Best example were the coterie surrounding Janine, but in that instance she was equally complicit in playing their game.

I do want to say, trying on shoes is not a good analogy. If I take a shoe off the rack, try it and put it back, the store lost nothing. The 5 or 10 minutes the girl lost with a customer who never had any intention of taking her now or in future (not you, but there are many such guys) is lost income, especially if she encounters 10 or 20 of such guys in a day.

[QUOTE=Jnpr30;2189627]Well, obviously there is no right or wrong answer when it comes to this issue. A lot of this depends on the guy's personality, comfort levels and preferences, etc.

I guess we all agree that taking up and wasting a large chunk of a girl's time when having no intention to take her to the room is not a gentlemanly thing. Yet, I see this often. Best example were the coterie surrounding Janine, but in that instance she was equally complicit in playing their game.

I do want to say, trying on shoes is not a good analogy. If I take a shoe off the rack, try it and put it back, the store lost nothing. The 5 or 10 minutes the girl lost with a customer who never had any intention of taking her now or in future (not you, but there are many such guys) is lost income, especially if she encounters 10 or 20 of such guys in a day.[/QUOTE]I guess I'm not a gentleman while I'm out mongering. I talk, interview basically, see if she agrees to what I may ask of her in the room, if she acts less than mechanical outside the room while trying to judge how she will act inside the room. If this is selfish of me to cost the lady 5-10 minutes of her time even if I decide not to session with her, so be it. It's better if she feels that I cost her money with interview than if I rush into a session and she wastes my time and takes my money. After all, this is not a satisfaction guaranteed hobby so I do what I can to increase my chances. As I said in my first post earlier here, it's my money until she earns it.

[QUOTE=McAdonis;2189568]For the men who prefer to be approached, is it always about losing some bargaining leverage? Are there other reasons behind this preference?[/QUOTE]I normally approach when I want to go the room. But I prefer the girl approaching me when at a cinema. Like at Oase cinema for example and want to start the session there. The only other reason is the relaxed reason of getting to know a girl. For me this is counter clockwise to when the girls consider it interesting though. I want to talk after sex. Not before the first time we have sex. So this yin and yang male and female difference is sometimes posing a problem.

[QUOTE=McAdonis;2189568]At a club like Sharks where the bar makes you feel like you are walking around a race-track, sometimes WGs will catch me staring at them. The WG will motion for me to "come over", but I don't slow down, I just look back not breaking eye-contact. Or I might walk over and talk for only two minutes. I may do this several times in one night. Again I do not do this deliberately.[/QUOTE]Yeah, I think we all do this more or less. I also walk over to the slot machine at Acapulco when there is a hot girl next to it because I haven't taken on contact lenses yet. And even if everyone in the entire club catches what I am onto, she smiles at me so I get a closer look while still acting as if the damn slot machine was of some sort of interest. Same idea behind as in your example I suppose.

And then I go back and discuss the girl, and my take on her so loud that everyone present in the dead silent lounge can hear me.

[QUOTE=Jnpr30;2189627]I guess we all agree that taking up and wasting a large chunk of a girl's time when having no intention to take her to the room is not a gentlemanly thing. [/QUOTE]I know a lot of local girls in the night clubs where I live who may possibly think otherwise. LOL! I have a feeling you have lived too long within the boundaries of FKK's now. If it was this simple, then none of us would ever have gone to an FKK in the first place.

I agree with Jnpr30's points. Basically one should avoid the conversation or keep the conversation as short as possible with any WG whom one is not interested in to avoid potentially and unnecessarily unpleasant situation of WG's unhappiness which could spoil one's mood of the day, even if the WG approaches one. For the WG whom one might be interested in, the conversation doesn't have to be long in order to judge whether she would provide satisfactory service to the monger.

If you are an experienced monger who did at least 300 different WGs by my estimate, just trust your intuition after just listening to her to say only a few words, which is enough, with your observation of the WG. This is not a hypothesis and this comes from my personal experience. Now after just listening to the WG to say a few words with my visual observation of her, I can get about 95% accuracy rate of how her service would be, just by using my intuition. You can do it too.



[QUOTE=McAdonis;2189568]
For the men who prefer to be approached, is it always about losing some bargaining leverage? [/QUOTE]The difference is very small between approach and be approached. If I have to say which is better for monger, I would say that mongers have more upper-hand being approached....

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[QUOTE=Takedown;2189579]Regarding leverage and the upper hand, the simple head nod and smile is much different than the walk up. Style points do affect these girls, they are young twenty somethings afterall. The casual nod while reveals interest does not necessarily give up leverage. This of course depends on your ability to convey and maintain the mindset that a room with her is just a possibility but that she is one of a few girls that interest you with many many competitors just a few meters away.[/QUOTE]Even if you approach, you can still convey to her that the room is "just a possibility". Frequently, I see other men approach and eject. I do it all the time.

If a girl interests me visually, I will walk up to her. Generally it happens something like this: I walk up but stay maybe three meters aways. I smile but don't say anything right away. Generally she will motion me to come closer so that we can speak. Sometimes I walk closer and initiate conversation. Sometimes I walk away because I don't like what I see. Sometimes I continue to stand there, and she walks up to me. If she turns around or ignores me, then obviously I walk away. I am non-committal and indecisive with new WGs, so it is just my body sub-consciously communicating that indecisiveness.

[QUOTE=Jnpr30;2189627]The 5 or 10 minutes the girl lost with a customer who never had any intention of taking her now or in future (not you, but there are many such guys) is lost income, especially if she encounters 10 or 20 of such guys in a day.[/QUOTE]The longer the man is engaging her in conversation, the more he is obligating himself. I think we can all agree on that, no? I am admittedly more visual, so a 90 percent conversation is all I need. If I stay just 90 seconds, I feel zero obligation to session. Now if I stayed 5-10 minutes, then yes, I would feel obligated to session her.

If I abort after 90 seconds, I don't feel like I hurt her business, or dissuaded her other interested customers. It's happened many times before where I was talking to a fellow monger. Then I tell him "I will see you later. I am going to session my regular over there". As soon as I stand up, another monger has already walked up to my regular. Do I give up right away? No, I continue to observe their interaction for 3-5 minutes. I may even stand closer, hoping she is unable to close so that I can immediately pounce and take her. I have seen my monger friends do the same. I imagine others mongers also do not give up right away.

[QUOTE=McAdonis;2189888]Even if you approach, you can still convey to her that the room is "just a possibility". Frequently, I see other men approach and eject. I do it all the time.

If a girl interests me visually, I will walk up to her. Generally it happens something like this: I walk up but stay maybe three meters aways. I smile but don't say anything right away. Generally she will motion me to come closer so that we can speak. Sometimes I walk closer and initiate conversation. Sometimes I walk away because I don't like what I see. Sometimes I continue to stand there, and she walks up to me. If she turns around or ignores me, then obviously I walk away. I am non-committal and indecisive with new WGs, so it is just my body sub-consciously communicating that indecisiveness.[/QUOTE]But do you see the inherent problem with that? The timid, skiddish aura that's put out is compromising to your position. It's not the end of the world and many readers would say, "who cares? But if we're talking about leverage or something along the lines of showing higher value, the nod and having her physically come to you does have a real effect. There truly is something to this as there have been several times when I felt that the girl was either consciously or inherently familiar with this social nuance. Those were the times when the girl would see the nod, smile or wave back, but refuse to come over when I beckoned her. She responds by attempting to wave me over. We would play this game for several exchanges until one party caves (I can't say that I never did.).

[QUOTE=YamaYama0519;2189876]I now live in Tokyo, Japan. My blog: http://yamayama0519.blog.fc2.com/[/QUOTE]Perhaps you could shed light on one of the pivotal questions of male existence and reproduction: Is sushi good for sperm production?

Whilst everything said on the lines of "time is money" for the girls is correct, I have (although this is increasingly less common) found that many girls who recognise me as a regular club goer are very happy to chat every day for a few minutes even when they know I have no intention of going to a room with them. Of course I only do this when I sense the girl is happy to do so. Some of these girls say they like this as it makes them feel a bit of normality. And of course occasionally I might even end up going with them.

Just to stress that this scenario seems to be less common now, maybe because I visit less often.

I agree that any client who goes round asking girls inane questions and not intending to pay is a bad customer. A considerate chat is a different matter should it happen by chance. I would not seek out a girl I had no intention of rooming with, but sometimes conversation just happens

So, if a girl is relaxed about it, casual conversation can be a win: win.

[QUOTE=Chongmal;2189723]I guess I'm not a gentleman while I'm out mongering. I talk, interview basically, see if she agrees to what I may ask of her in the room, if she acts less than mechanical outside the room while trying to judge how she will act inside the room. If this is selfish of me to cost the lady 5-10 minutes of her time even if I decide not to session with her, so be it. It's better if she feels that I cost her money with interview than if I rush into a session and she wastes my time and takes my money. After all, this is not a satisfaction guaranteed hobby so I do what I can to increase my chances. As I said in my first post earlier here, it's my money until she earns it.[/QUOTE]Yes, but I specifically mentioned guys who have no desire to session and yet deliberately chat up, cop a feel, rub and nuzzle, make some lame jokes and then walk away because that was their intent all along.

What you do is fairly normal. Granted, I don't talke 5 to 10 minutes with every girl to come to a decision, but if it is a serious interview with a honest intent, why not?!

Also, if the girl really likes to chat and comes to you, this does not apply. Janine was actually in that camp. In fact, she liked her non paying, time wasting cronies so much, she would look very upset if a guy would come up and ask to go to room right then.

[QUOTE=Takedown;2188777]5 clubs in 46 hours using public transport sounds like a terrible idea. If possible, it would at least require a bag of coke to stay awake and another bag of Viagra to combat the ensuing coke dick.

I would only do 2, but 3 is not entirely a terrible idea. Palace-Oase-Sharks is obviously easily doable.

Starting in Frankfurt on Friday and ending at Oceans or Samya on Sunday is not a good idea as those clubs are late night clubs and will not have many quality girls in the lineup before your 8 pm departure time.

If you are starting in Dussseldorf / Cologne at 10 pm and finish in Frankfurt then start at Oceans or Samya on Friday, take a morning ICE train to Frankfurt, S5 and then taxi or walk to Oase on Saturday, will need to get some shut eye in Oase's sleep room, close out Oase, take the 5 am S5 to Frankfurt and then a regional train to Darmstadt, kill a few hours until 11 am and do Sharks Cheap Charlie Sunday. You will surely be tired by Sunday so getting a couple quality naps at Oase on Saturday is essential to this game plan.[/QUOTE]Thanks for that excellent feedback and ideas!

Will report back as ever once I've decided as always.