FKK Artemis - Berlin

For 1001th time, personal experience, know 3 others in past month, 60 Eur 30 min "GFE" still possible if you choose well, and maybe are a little charming, or just decent to girl, and show you are not newbee.

Best is be able to walk away from silly prices. Seems many now just capitulate and ruining it. If you pay more, your choice. Tourists, people under time pressure may feel they must. But it is not a must.

Paying so much becomes ridiculous (not even including entrance fee) when you remember in mid-high end bordellos, 1 hour is 130-150 ish with super nice girls, maybe even better than A (van Kampen, Liberty, Prestige, Ginas Tango, Royale, Salon Delux, Mon Rouge, Maria Rot), etc. No food, no hanging out, no sauna. Different scene for sure. Time to let markets work.

I don't want to point fingers at someone here but I totally agree with Nooky Ninja here, if you are quoted silly prices then either you walk away or you negotiate them down, and if you still have a good gut feel about it go with her. But honestly if you are quoted such prices what are the chances of that being a good session when it starts with haggling about money?! As Nooky mentioned if all people just pay up it really ruins it for everybody else, please don't!!

220 is way too much for an hour, you need to understand that DATY, BBBJ, DFK is just imaginary extras and shouldn't cost a penny in a perfect world, it's more about chemistry. But we don't live in a perfect world, but you could easily negotiate all mentioned 'extras' included for 50 total or have them included in longer sessions, therefore Danny227 comment of 170/ hour I guess?! To even consider paying for DATY is just madness. The German gang Lara, Megan etc etc is girls to avoid if you don't want to be ripped off completely.

With entrance at 80 already then prices at the club shouldn't be high, because then there are absolutely no reasons to even visit the club. Again as Nooky mentioned there are other ways to have good sex for less money. I for one is going to Spain more frequently where all these so called extras is included for less price if you just talk with the girl before heading to the room. The good weather of Spain is another plus, yes it's true they don't have FKK's but on the other side their clubs don't charge 80 euros entrance either, if they do charge something you always get a drink voucher as well. Another plus is all the beautiful Latina in Spain!

To each their own.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2256358]Again, the pricing seemed very standardized assuming you are going with a high optics girl.

60 a half hour standard.

50 for that thing we don't say out loud anymore.

50 for DFK / DATY /(FIV, Tittie Fuck, COB) combo.

60 to add a half hour.

So, yes a full half will be 50+50+60=160 and a full hour will be another 60 so 220.

And yes, you can get 170/ HR. Just skip kissing and DATY or go CBJ and keep kissing and DATY. Both of these add to 60+50+60=170..[/QUOTE]You are a funny guy just completely destroying the price policy probably without being aware of it.

[QUOTE=KosherKowboy;2256323]How do you arrive at 170 out of curiosity. Steve6969 has been there several times recently found this generalized pricing list he posted.

If 60 is base for a rushed no thrills half hour and the guy adds on 2 extras (usually 50 each w exception Anal at 100) as reported by William Huntley than William's two extras would be 100 e plus the 60 e which is close to the 170 you mentioned. However, that is a half hour session, tack on the fact it was an hour with some extras this guy did than price (based on Steve's post) would be higher than the 170 all inclusive you are suggesting.

So I ask how you break down your numbers.

To arrive at a ' wedding night' 170 e Artemis hour?

The smoking fetish aside of course as there was no charge for inhaling carcinogens. The extras I am not sure of as to what he enjoyed or paid for or didn't but your 170 for ' all that' seems low...[/QUOTE]A good one hour at Artemis including all but anal and CIM is generally 150-170. If you add CIM it really depends how you negotiate with the girl because the longer you stay the BBBJ extra is waved. Don't think that it is so easy for girls to catch guys for sessions. So when they have a guaranteed 170 in one hour, you get all the GFE you want, if the girl provides that service in general. Now of course, if you are revolting, with big unclean teeth, long hair, which is unclean and unmaitained and generally look like a dirty over weight horse, girls will be reluctant to kiss you or be overly intimate with you and will definitely insist on extras. If you are on the well groomed side and clean and have a decent social IQ, you should be ok. And 170 isn't on the cheap side. It is really the right price where no one gets screwed and when the girl is great and you stay the full hour, throw in another 10. Think that for 200 you get a private escort in Berlin that will leave you speechless. 2 hours go to 350 normally. All is included normally. Anal is subjective. Private apartments in Berlin, you need to know where to go and which girl to choose as it can get expensive and service is not guaranteed. Quite a few Artemis girls post private ads online for 150 an hour. If business was so great that they make 110 in 10 minutes, they would not do that. Good luck.

OK thanks for not flaming me too badly. Economics and taste differ for us all and therefore so do prices. Let me state things a bit more clearly plus some opinion.

1. The prices I stated were indeed the non-negotiated rates offered pretty consistently.

2. I tried to negotiate with my first girl Salome and she would not budge.

3. In a negotiation you need to be able to walk to be truly effective. I was not willing to walk. I tend to find only a small handful of girls I would go with, so I tend to want to go with them once engaged.

4. As far as 50 extra for BBBJ, as I've mentioned in the lounge I find this reasonable. Yes, it used to be "free" but it also used to be legal. In my experience worldwide, illegal acts cost more than legal acts. So we should not be surprised that it costs now. This is not just Artemis.

5. For me personally 50 Extra for whatever is nothing. She needs it way more than I do. And I will never miss that money, but I would surely miss the experience. So I marvel in reverse when guys walk away from a girl they want over 50. I would never do that.

6. I take exception with those that say guys like me are ruining the market. There is no such thing as ruining the market. There is only the market itself. Prices will sort themselves naturally based on supply and demand.

So in summary I am sure other prices can be had by those more skilled at negotiating, willing to walk away or settle for less. That is not me.

Ps There was a near case study on this recently— I think it was in the Sharks thread. Lothano, who is notorious for trying to find a deal and PayFotIt, who is willing to pay what is asked, met up and had a great time together. But their reports say it all. Lothano could not find a price he liked for the services he wanted and went home empty handed and a bit down. PayForIt paid the “overly ambitious” rates and had a great time. Go figure.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2256731]I take exception with those that say guys like me are ruining the market. There is no such thing as ruining the market. There is only the market itself. Prices will sort themselves naturally based on supply and demand.[/QUOTE]Look, you and others can pay what you want, and you must decide value. Time pressure plays big role. But, since law change (which we now know is silly and not enforced) girls take advantage. Big picture is this. Look at multiple websites in Berlin -bordello home pages, kaufmich, Berlin intim etc. And you will find well over 3000 girls working here. They charge about 140 ish for a fine hour with most extras. That is competitive market price now in Berlin. For years, Artemis prices were about this level. (To be fair, prices for girls both in and outside A in Berlin have changed little in over 15 years so with some (very) slight inflation maybe 5-10% would be reasonable).

Since new law (which has not changed prices in "outside" Berlin market at all) some Artemis girls seem to be getting away with almost double this, if you include portion of 80 Eur entrance fee. They do this because conditions inside distort market which means some ideal notion of simple supply and demand do not work. An incomplete list. Imperfect, asymmetric information; barriers to entry and exit; oligopoly, collusion, poor enforcement of contract; too many buyers chasing too few sellers; and and and (sounds like conditions for Trump company). There is story that during a Logistics Messe, crowding was so bad and girls so scarce inside that they were able to charge 200 for 30 minutes and guys were paying. Management was not happy.

This fancy way of saying many factors make mongers buying power now severely limited inside house. But bottom line (literally) is. Men are accepting this when even within 500 meters (Prestige) they need not. For what some are paying you could have 2 girls (1 hour each with full extras) outside, meal at decent restaurant, spend all day at Europa Center Thermal Bath for swimming, jacuzzi, sauna, or even few hours at Vibali Spa, for far less money. And as TeddyBears says, such expensive girls are likely to be bad experience. While in London or Moscow or USA you can of course spend a lot more, the Berlin market is less. People need to understand this as it seems they are ruining it in Artemis, where really girls are nothing special-certainly not compared to outside Berlin with thousands (or at least hundreds) of comparable choices.

So Artemis market seems to be becoming distorted compared to far larger Berlin market, with comparable experiences. But only because mongers tolerate this.

At some point, word will get out and things may settle back a little to where they should be. But you do need to be prepared to refuse crazy high prices. What seems to have happened is many are not. It is a choice and if you are patient, polite, flexible, and decent, you can find enough alternatives inside Artemis who will give a very good time for reasonable price.

Is there a law that causes the Salons to close at 10 or 11? I don't get started till then and that is really the problem. I had a nice experience at Agentur Liberty and would repeat there or Prestige or wherever. THIS is the problem.

If these were open till midnight or two or something they'the be an alternative. Why is Artemis the only "multi girl high end" place that is open late night?

5. For me personally 50 Extra for whatever is nothing. She needs it way more than I do. And I will never miss that money, but I would surely miss the experience. So I marvel in reverse when guys walk away from a girl they want over 50. I would never do that.

Probably are you not aware about what will probably be the yearly income of that girl, obviously you are not supporting guys like me who are not willing to pay any extra except anal and CIM, but I don t care since the new law so many girls are not willing to register so it is far easier to find excellent private escort with great service and girls who are not getting fucked 10 or 20 times per day and this is changing many things at least for me.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2256731]5. For me personally 50 Extra for whatever is nothing. She needs it way more than I do. And I will never miss that money, but I would surely miss the experience. So I marvel in reverse when guys walk away from a girl they want over 50. I would never do that.[/QUOTE]Very nice. So why don't you go to Globe where the rates are higher? Or you can pay an escort. I saw that Anny Aurora was escorting, 850 € / 1 h, that's not so much and she needs it more than you. I'm always amazed at people who like to pay more. There are a lot of places where the rates are higher, so go! Next time I'll go buy some bread at the bakery, I'll pay 5 € instead of 1 € because well, it's nothing for me! I think there are lots of CEO's and surgeons on this board but believe me, when I started working at the same age of those girls, I was making something like 65-70 € a day and I had a degree in mathematics. A few years ago when I started attending those clubs, I was way richer, making 100 € a day (and not an hour or half an hour). Now I'm more confortable but there is still no Ferrari / Audi / BMW / Porsche awaiting in the garage. Each time you play the generous guy in all those clubs because it's nothing for you, you're participating to the worsening of the experience for the guys less fortunate than you.

Everybody talks about supply and demand here, maybe I should buy new glasses but everytime I go to some well known club in NRW (besides GT but I don't go), the ladies are far from full-booked, actually most of them are stuck on their couch for a good chunk of the day, so I'd say that the supply is actually greater than the demand. And it's worse in the lesser known clubs. Some girls barely make enough rooms to cover the club entry cost.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2256759]Is there a law that causes the Salons to close at 10 or 11? I don't get started till then and that is really the problem. Why is Artemis the only "multi girl high end" place that is open late night?[/QUOTE]There are options: MonRouge open late, Aston, Rush Hour, Yingyang, SexyCandyShop, Mon Amie, Maison de Envie, Club Mona and others a bit downmarket, also. Search [URL]https://www.berlinintim.de/bordell-berlin.html[/URL].

"High End" in eye of beholder. Artemis in Ninja opinion nothing special-a few gems, most just normal girls. Most girls in bordellos have other real life, students, other jobs, etc. Like to sleep normal hours. So do their clients. Different market.

The normal hour private bordellos in general seem to have better girls and a happier, healthier lifestyle. Not industrial factory with all complications of girls living at Artemis, more (and fewer) upscale clients, much more chill atmosphere.

Best is you cancel all business meetings after 1800, and take long lunch breaks...

[QUOTE=BigBuddy69;2256869]Very nice. So why don't you go to Globe where the rates are higher? Or you can pay an escort. I saw that Anny Aurora was escorting, 850 / 1 h, that's not so much and she needs it more than you. I'm always amazed at people who like to pay more. There are a lot of places where the rates are higher, so go! Next time I'll go buy some bread at the bakery, I'll pay 5 instead of 1 because well, it's nothing for me! I think there are lots of CEO's and surgeons on this board but believe me, when I started working at the same age of those girls, I was making something like 65-70 a day and I had a degree in mathematics. A few years ago when I started attending those clubs, I was way richer, making 100 a day (and not an hour or half an hour). Now I'm more confortable but there is still no Ferrari / Audi / BMW / Porsche awaiting in the garage. Each time you play the generous guy in all those clubs because it's nothing for you, you're participating to the worsening of the experience for the guys less fortunate than you.

Everybody talks about supply and demand here, maybe I should buy new glasses but everytime I go to some well known club in NRW (besides GT but I don't go), the ladies are far from full-booked, actually most of them are stuck on their couch for a good chunk of the day, so I'd say that the supply is actually greater than the demand. And it's worse in the lesser known clubs. Some girls barely make enough rooms to cover the club entry cost.[/QUOTE]Good men! I second your words.

BB69. I second Danny227. Succumbing to overpaying and thereby encouraging overcharging, whilst benefitting some girls, depresses demand, reducing overall earnings, however much the supplier cartels try to boost their income.

Girls I know who work for 70 or 90 an hour (not at Artemis of course) are constantly busy and are very happy with their earnings. Able to buy a house and an upmarket car, pay for childcare, support parents, and so on.

If Steve wants to give his money away then I don't criticise him, as he says the experience is worth the money. But I wonder if the experience is any better than with a cheaper girl: in my encounters it has often been the non grasping girls who are the best.

[QUOTE=Optimist;2257143]BB69. I second Danny227. Succumbing to overpaying and thereby encouraging overcharging, whilst benefitting some girls, depresses demand, reducing overall earnings, however much the supplier cartels try to boost their income.

Girls I know who work for 70 or 90 an hour (not at Artemis of course) are constantly busy and are very happy with their earnings. Able to buy a house and an upmarket car, pay for childcare, support parents, and so on.

If Steve wants to give his money away then I don't criticise him, as he says the experience is worth the money. But I wonder if the experience is any better than with a cheaper girl: in my encounters it has often been the non grasping girls who are the best.[/QUOTE]Very well said Herr [B]Optimist[/B]!
I find myself in absolute and complete agreement with your opinion on this matter.
Rather than overpay, why not reward good performance by staying extra time in the room or by booking the lady for another session?!?

Request for comments. Some people take the position that Artemis gives a lesser service than the Frankfurt FKK clubs because Artemis is the only business of its kind in Berlin. What are your opinions? My view is that the lack of competition in Berlin makes for lesser quality. Artemis is heavily dependent on tourist that will never return. The local guys are a minority and they know which females to be with.

[QUOTE=Vienna2017;2257161]Request for comments. Some people take the position that Artemis gives a lesser service than the Frankfurt FKK clubs because Artemis is the only business of its kind in Berlin. What are your opinions? My view is that the lack of competition in Berlin makes for lesser quality. Artemis is heavily dependent on tourist that will never return. The local guys are a minority and they know which females to be with.[/QUOTE]My view on this matter is that if you are a newbie on a club and none of the girls recognize you, they majority of the girls will try to hustle you. It happened to me a few times in the Frankfurt clubs (Oase, Palace) a couple of years ago, this was before the new law regarding BBBJ but a majority of the girls wouldn't give it unless I paid extra or extend the session. So from personal experience I think it's about if the girls see you as a newbie / tourist or a experienced monger.

But I agree it would be very useful to know if the girls at the Frankfurt clubs use the same tactics as in Artemis and how much one hour with GFE service is at Palace, Sharks, Oase, World & Mainhattan at this moment.