German FKK Clubs - Lounge and chat area

[QUOTE=Jnpr30;2192928]Since you are complaining about the needless personal attacks here TD, enquiring minds want to know if your use of word "geeks" is meant to be complimentary or a needed personal attack, and if that term geek refers to the self declared alpha males or whoever are the beta males in the opinion of the self declared alpha male.[/QUOTE]I think McAdonis can better answer your question regarding the use of the word "geek" since I was quoting his use of the word.

I myself am a geek. I geek out to history and science documentaries. I love Marvel movies and watch youtube videos regarding fan theories. I wake up every morning and geek out on motivational workout videos. I geek out on mongering as I read forums everyday. I am a geek.

I challenge you to quote where I declared myself an alpha male. After searching, you saw nothing from my words correct? I keep getting the impression that you have animosity for me because I try to emulate and do what I can to embrace said alphaness. Please stop that. We all have the right to carry ourselves to hold what we personally think to be our standard of winning and success.

You go in there, you pay cash, you get sex, some day you get more or less than other days.

Nothing less nothing more.

We are in it for sex, they are in it for money.

Nothing less, nothing more.

Some monger begin to hallucinate themselves too much.

[QUOTE=Takedown;2192732]Simply put, our hardware has not kept up with our software. Women are still hardwired to be drawn to dominant, often physically dominant, men.[/QUOTE]True. But not equally much in industrialized urban societies as compared to rural countries. So the trend is moving against this. However, it is a slow trend. But studies have shown that women brought up in more urban environments perceive slightly more feminine features to be beautiful as compared to women brought up in more rural environments. Question is just how fast or slow this changes. But a masculine man clearly still have an advantage.

I still see loverboys back in Romania and Bulgaria desperately spending all their time at the gym in hopes of keeping their WG relationship intact. Sending her posing pictures on the phone almost daily. This is a monkeys way of trying to project alpha tendencies. As long as he doesn't use drugs to get there, he may succeed. Danger is when the drugs negative effects kick in as this one strong man I know of who stopped producing testosterone. Something which got to have killed off all his sex drive. Now he has to use hormone injections almost daily to even stay alive.

Natural exercise does have great benefits not just in projecting a good image, but also in performing well in bed. To me I don't care shit about a relationship to a WG if she also is not a sexhibitionist. Only the sexhibitionists are worthy of my attention. If they are lazy they better have damn good excuses.

Never forget, women desires to have demands thrown at them. Be soft and you get nowhere. (but don't hurt them in any way or form). Be soft and she thinks you are a beta. Like in that pop song I keep hearing sometimes: 'bad boys brings heaven to you'.

The ink shit all these girls like is also a bit dangerous as the ink is poisonous. But one or two small ones is not bad. Projects an image of a renegade.

[QUOTE=MrHo;2193000]You go in there, you pay cash, you get sex, some day you get more or less than other days.

Nothing less nothing more.

We are in it for sex, they are in it for money.

Nothing less, nothing more.

Some monger begin to hallucinate themselves too much.[/QUOTE]Very well said, unfortunately the hallucinations you refer to is all too rampant (especially here at home) , usually always occurs with the younger guys (directly from the regulars / girls mouths and even more so detectable in their posts, so easy to read thru) at a much higher frequency than the older ones, here, there and everywhere I have journeyed. With exceptions of course. Some of the young ones are very wise to this BS. It isn't called a trick for nothing and the ability to create that hallucination in the guys heads are mastered by the best girls, the guys so fucking clueless it is sad but they will learn. Give them time.

This is just one example of how these hallucinations can add up.

Some of these guys think they are boyfriends, a guy I know thought because his all time favorite got pregnant and he barebacked her he believed he was the only BBFS guy but as it turned out not only did he give her abortion money so did several others and she bailed town with a paid off car and plenty of cash to carry her a few months. I can only imagine how many girls in Germany have done the same to the gullible and stupid and went back to Romania or wherever they hailed from, ate well, drank well and danced the night away while spending the money of the fools and fucking guys they really wanted to (bareback of course).

I got burned for $1,500 at age 24 or so, since than never. Never ever let them get the upper hand on you and always remember, there is more pussy than the girl trying to hose you, I got the money they want when they think they have me on the hook and I'll dangle that carrot and if they bite great if not fuck them, go on to the next and if need be fuck no one and go elsewhere.

[QUOTE=Mangga;2192088]I only recently came to know that from 2012 to 2016 the FKK Palast in Freiburg organized a Blowjob contest! But I can't find any news about after 2016, do you know if they stopped doing it?[/QUOTE]This is because of the new law in Germany, it can no longer be done publicly. I know someone who used to go to Palast all the time for this reason, now he went to another place where they can do this in Switzerland openly, someplace called Sex Park.

For Switzerland it is relatively cheap, 80 or 90 CHF per half hour.

Guys,

Who pull girls from clubs without paying for their time know this to be a false statement. If you never have, then you probably think the way you do.

[QUOTE=MrHo;2193000]You go in there, you pay cash, you get sex, some day you get more or less than other days.

Nothing less nothing more.

We are in it for sex, they are in it for money.

Nothing less, nothing more.

Some monger begin to hallucinate themselves too much.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=KosherKowboy;2193051]Very well said, unfortunately the hallucinations you refer to is all too rampant (especially here at home) , usually always occurs with the younger guys (directly from the regulars / girls mouths and even more so detectable in their posts, so easy to read thru) at a much higher frequency than the older ones, here, there and everywhere I have journeyed. With exceptions of course. Some of the young ones are very wise to this BS. It isn't called a trick for nothing and the ability to create that hallucination in the guys heads are mastered by the best girls, the guys so fucking clueless it is sad but they will learn. Give them time.

This is just one example of how these hallucinations can add up.[/QUOTE]I'll say to you like I said to Mr Ho, if you pull a girl from a club, you know this to not be true. I've done it. There is a 22 yo monger at Sharks that does it on the regular. He attends most Wednesdays and wears the blue sauna towel. A 44 year old monger that I used to hobby did it with former Tatiana of Sharks.

But if I didn't know better or simply can't pull the girl, then well, I would try to spare my own ego also.

At first I thought all the talk about "alphas" and psychology was way over the top, but I found some aspects of the discussion very interesting and I thought I would contribute.

I would say that opinions on both ends of the spectrum are wrong in various ways. I am going to talk about the extremes of the spectrum and I am not responding to any one person, so please do not take undue offense.

- There are the mongers who think it is all about money and nothing else and that the girls see everyone as a loser they can squeeze for money and they urge people not to have illusions.

I am with those that strongly disagree with this, charisma and charm and looks do make a difference, not to every girl, some are hard wired to think the way above, maybe up to half of them, but it does have an impact on quite a few girls. I have also had unpaid services outside locales with working girls that I met. Many times I did think I influenced the girl to provide better service and throw in free unpaid extras, this is not at all infrequent, I would not call it common and it is with girls that I am not a regular with.

I would disagree that this is all about psychology and primal thinking patterns, I disagree strongly with so called PUAs about this and think charm and charisma and politeness and consideration go a long way. I have even been with girls who intended to rush me out the door change tack and then try their "best" or upped their game a lot since I was nice to them. They are after all human, well at least many of them, and they will respond to charm, compliments and charisma. If she feels you are nice she will often, but not always, reciprocate.

- The second extreme think they are special and gifted and can always get the upper hand.

I also disagree with this, a lot of girls are also hard wired to look at you a certain way and it would take an awful lot to break them, the charm offensive, something I have another term for "emotional violence" does not work with certain girls, in fact 25 - 40% no matter what you do and what you look like.

Generally I find that the less time a girl has been working in this area, the more vulnerable she is to charm and can be seduced and had for free, the longer she has been in the game the harder and harder it is.

Many of us want to feel special and our ego needs to elevate our own (non subjective) appraisal of self worth of ability, this is true of almost all of us unless we are manic depressives.

- First group I think contain a few people who suffer from certain self doubt (we all do in various ways, this is not an attempt to denigrate anyone) and want to believe that if they don't have the certain x factor or looks then no one else does and they keep telling others remember you are not special, money is the only game in town.

- The Second group needs to elevate themselves to extreme extents and believe they have something no one else does and they are uniquely different. Well you very well may be, I am at least not like most people due to my ADHD which manifests itself in a high energy level, however not every girl loves you or even appreciates you. Some are hard wired not to care and paradoxically I find this is not related to their looks unlike some mongers claim.

It is a common belief that less attractive girls give you better service, I find this to be untrue in my experience, in fact some of the worst scammers are the less attractive ones.

[QUOTE=DeltaIndigo;2193067]

- The second extreme think they are special and gifted and can always get the upper hand.

I also disagree with this[/QUOTE]I agree with you on this one.

If they think they are special I move on. As to the upper hand just mentioned, they don't have it and never did. At least this is how I personally always played the game. Negotiating from the sense that you have the power will actually result in a better outcome than if you hand the football off to them. Screw that, I am the QB and I am heaving the ball downfield if I hunt them down. If they come to me I am obviously playing defense looking for a turnover or sack. I play both sides of the football, it really is a game, not just fun. I hate to lose. Palace will be a tough one based on scouting reports but I will go in to it thinking I have the advantage and if I lose so be it. I go down swinging and my goal is to get on base not hit a HR. Work your plan, plan your work. If you think the other team has the advantage well IMO you are already trailing on the scoreboard.

We are guests and IMO ' the inmates do not run the asylum'; but let them think that. However if some guys like to monger from the other view that the ladies have the upper hand and can negotiate best that way all the power to them.

We captain our own ships, so whatever works for us is the right way. I think mongering with the thought 'advantage me ' works best for me but does not mean I am right it is just right for me. Whatever works for the individual is best.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2191926]The historically real money (unless one adheres to the annunaki / gold theory) had one single purpose: to let men have sex with younger women. ...[/QUOTE][QUOTE=Neurosynth;2192113]Where did you study history? You should sue to get your tuition money back.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=Pistons;2192503]I got this particular university dlc for free actually. It is up on youtube as Yale Anthropology..[/QUOTE]Followed by a bunch of handwaving about how academia is mostly BS.

This is hardly a way to prove such a specific and absurd and speculative proposition that money was invented to make prostitution possible, or some watered down variant thereof. What studies? What publications? Or simply what evidence other than somebody on youtube says so?

KK and Delta and Mr Ho. I share the same approach. I always think that the girl who wants my custom needs my money more than I need her. If she thinks she should be given gifts or extra payments this just emphasises my point.

Of course sometimes I forget my own advice and get to know a girl and then she becomes worth much more to me. This is where it gets dangerous if the girl is a wolf in sheep's clothing. But in all cases I never forget that in 99.9% of times, the guys who think they are special to a girl are living in a fool's paradise.

Many times I have been told by a girl of her night or weekend with a guy who spent a fortune. The girl tells how she was bored or disgusted but the guy thought he had a special relationship with her. Customers are almost always just sources of income, anything else is an illusion.

Of course we all feel that we are the 0. 1% exception LOL. I have done so and maybe I was maybe I wasn't, but whichever it was, it was fun.

In my sensible moments I think that if a girl likes me as a good customer then that is all I hope for.

If others think differently then so long as they are happy with their outcomes that is all also good

I find all of this discussion around so called PUA, alpha males, beta males, etc to be quite absurd. For me the primary advantage of commercial sex is to fulfill sexual desire *without* having to engage in all the complications other options require.

A more interesting question is why men here go beyond a sort of Consumer Reports presentation, and invest so much in the pretense of "analysis" and "psychology" and "economics" and so on.

To me it's clear evidence that whatever protestations to the contrary, those posting this kind of stuff find paying for sex a threat to their own self-esteem. Is ten euros here or twenty euros there really worth the time and effort? In a similar way, why do sex workers become so attached to relatively small amounts of differential money in a profession that yields income far above what they could earn any other way? Again, it's not the money, it's the threat to self-esteem.

So both sex workers and sex clients tend to have control issues. Somehow having the upper hand in the transaction gives some protection to their self-esteem. It's not about the money. The money is just a way to keep score in a battle for dominance, and the dominance is given so much emphasis because it preserves self-esteem.

My self-esteem in these matters is just fine. I pay a fair amount for fair services AND not having to think about it much further. Because there really isn't much more to it than that.

Eid Mubarak Optimist. I hope you have enjoyed a good post-Ramadan feasting of figs, goat flesh, Ka'ak, wine, and sweet sweet pussy all to the sound of bamboo cannon firecrackers.

[QUOTE=Optimist;2193083]

Many times I have been told by a girl of her night or weekend with a guy who spent a fortune. The girl tells how she was bored or disgusted but the guy thought he had a special relationship with her. Customers are almost always just sources of income, anything else is an illusion.

Of course we all feel that we are the 0. 1% exception LOL. I have done so and maybe I was maybe I wasn't, but whichever it was, it was fun.[/QUOTE]FKK-land is the Infinite Onion Simulation. Each of us can see the layers inwards but not outwards. So each of us assumes we are in the outermost layer, namely True Love, namely base reality.

Polyamorist. I celebrated today's post Ramadan existence with good sex, a vegan meal, a tour of a Christian cathedral, a visit to a Zen Buddhist monastery for meditation, and a fast 3 mile run. Life is good.

Onions. We have to peel the layers to find the truth and then realise there is no thing there to find. Living on a layer is illusion

Cheers to you my polyglot friend.

I agree 110% with this post. It is exactly what I've come to know from my 15 years of mongering as a young hobbyist, from 20 yo-35 yo. In fact, looking back at my clueless 20 yo self, skills learned from my mongering experiences have actually helped me greatly in building sexual connections with women in real life.

As for your dichotomy:

In one extreme, thinking that girls can't be influenced comes from one of 3 places.

1. Ignoring that the girls are humans and thinking that they are incapable of dropping the working girl guard.

2. Low self esteem.

3. Not having ever influenced a girl and not wanting to believe other men can do it. I. e thinking other guys are "hallucinating. ".

Your other extreme, I hope I do not fall into. In no way do I think I am a Don Juan and that working girls fall all over me, nor do I have the upper hand. I truly understand that the WG holds the upper hand due to her position as an object of desire. It is difficult for the guy to 100% know if the attraction is real or a ruse for more money. That being said, I have seen exactly 4 girls outside of the clubs out of hundreds of girls sessioned (Not exactly a Don Juan hit percentage). Those 4 were girls who I treated well and took at least half a dozen session to see them outside. With none of them was it intentional. In fact, with all of them, I waited for the girl to bring up the idea of seeing each other in public. That required authentic connection building beyond any PUA-seduction type advances.

BTW, DeltaIndigo, we've met at Sharks on a Monday afternoon. You bought a bottle of red wine and kindly offered me a glass over some conversation.

[QUOTE=DeltaIndigo;2193067]At first I thought all the talk about "alphas" and psychology was way over the top, but I found some aspects of the discussion very interesting and I thought I would contribute.

I would say that opinions on both ends of the spectrum are wrong in various ways. I am going to talk about the extremes of the spectrum and I am not responding to any one person, so please do not take undue offense..[/QUOTE]