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FWIW "loverboy" is also a Dutch term of art for a certain kind of pimp. These are guys who prey on very young naive girls, often rural, who are seduced and then psychologically manipulated into working in window-style prostitution. I think the term has widened in use over the years.
[QUOTE=McAdonis;2194072]I'd say most girls in their early 20's are still idealistic. They still believe in "romantic love". If money was a primary concern, then Romanian women in their early-20's would never hook up with Romanian guys their own age (truck drivers, construction workers. Etc). This holds true even for some of the money-worshiping Romanian WGs, many of which are early 20's.[/QUOTE]Most normal girls from affluent backgrounds remain idealistic for a while but girls who come from poverty lose their idealism much much earlier. But that doesn't mean they would never date a poor guy. Jaded, money hungry women all over the world still get in relationships with broke, loser boyfriends well into there 30's. Women are inconsistent and incongruent so the words always and never should hardly ever be used to describe their actions.
But as far as Romanian WGs, I don't know many of them who date poor Romanian boys. Most vehemently seem to avoid them. I do see quite a few drawn to the pompous money flaunting Turkish-Romanian guys.
The one Romanian WG that I know for sure who is now currently dating a literal truck driver, well that's the one who was with me for 9 months. So she must be bat shit crazy.
[QUOTE=McAdonis;2194072]But once a girls reaches age 30, things change: a prospective man's income starts to take on more importance. This turning point can happen sooner too. It's dependent on cultural factors as well: (1) average marrying age, (2) prevalence of single mothers, (3) how negative society's view towards "gold diggers" are.[/QUOTE]For Romanians, I would say quite earlier. Doesn't seem like the gold digger stigma has quite as negative a stigma in Romanian culture as compared to most other societies. Where I live, the American South, the first 2 factors apply. So in my reality of local girls and Romanian WGs, 25 seems to be more the age where women change.
[QUOTE=McAdonis;2194065]For the record, I don't think I was ever dismissive toward you or anybody else. I try my best not to deny anybody's experiences, because I obviously was not there. My intent is to get posters to open up with more info. Why? Because I am sure readers would like to benchmark their experiences against people like yourself, in order to assess if if they have / had something "real" with their WG.
What is the typical seduction process? Specifically the part of the seduction process where you are still a customer paying market rate. Six one hour sessions over a two month period? Two three hour sessions over a week? How many sessions before it becomes free? In both the above scenarios I would consider the customer "in the hole". Or in casino speak, down 600 EUR. Do you ever break even or profit from your original investment? Meaning she starts to pay for more things than you pay for? This assumes you actually spend time together where opportunities exist for both parties to spend money on one another (shopping, dining, traveling, night clubs, etc)..[/QUOTE]Can we stop the "size" comparison? I take anything said with a grain of salt because it cannot be verified and people embellish or have faulty memories. When it come to seduction, you either have game or are just a looker.
[QUOTE=McAdonis;2194065]
What is the typical seduction process? Specifically the part of the seduction process where you are still a customer paying market rate. Six one hour sessions over a two month period? Two three hour sessions over a week? How many sessions before it becomes free? In both the above scenarios I would consider the customer "in the hole". Or in casino speak, down 600 EUR. Do you ever break even or profit from your original investment? Meaning she starts to pay for more things than you pay for? [/QUOTE]Just like any other local monger, I monger normally and don't "invest" on any WG for the purpose of being their loverboy for free session. I did between 120 and 140 sessions a year. But I am a cheap guy and most of my sessions were 30 min with cost of about 70 euro per 30-min session on average. Once in a while I found the girl whom I liked a lot, so I did more sessions with her. For this particular girl, I did 7 or 8 30-min normal sessions before starting to get free session. But I don't consider they were the "investment" because I had good time with her and would do her anyway even if I don't get free session now. I admit I have special feeling for her and care about her. I have my moral standard and don't ask her for anything except free sex.
I think that for local mongers like you, after 4 sessions with the WG within relatively short period of time, you can start to make a move because by that time she knows that you have special interest in her and are not a "normal" monger for her. But the key is that you HAVE TO select the girl at 18 or 19 years old (preferably 18) and it won't work if she is over 19. During the later sessions, you should start to make some romantic comments like I like you a lot, you are beautiful and so on.
Just to be clear, I will never get into serious relationship with any WG like boyfriend and girlfriend relationship. It is just not for me. But loverboy is different with BF as I will explain in my next post.
[QUOTE=Neurosynth;2194079]FWIW "loverboy" is also a Dutch term of art for a certain kind of pimp. These are guys who prey on very young naive girls, often rural, who are seduced and then psychologically manipulated into working in window-style prostitution. I think the term has widened in use over the years.[/QUOTE]I am very glad you brought this up because I saw many posters used the word "loverboy" which actually doesn't have exactly the same meaning as boyfriend (BF). You are right that Dutch use it to a pimp for young girl. Loverboy should mean a man who provides a girl, usually a young girl, with his love which she is addicted to as a chemical substance just like cocaine and other addictive substances for exchange of her sex and money if he convinces her into prostitution. The key feature of loverboy is love and the girl involved must be addicted to his love.
On the word boyfriend, the girl in the relationship of boyfriend and girlfriend doesn't have to be addicted to his love and can be without his love. So boyfriend is not necessarily a loverboy. Loverboy is not necessarily a boyfriend. These two words have different meaning.
I think that in general if the girl is between 18 and 20, we could call her male friend her loverboy because the girls in these ages are much more vulnerable to love. If the girl is 21 or more, it is better to call her male friend her boyfriend because the relationship is much more than just love if any.
[QUOTE=Bfsie;2194190]Just like any other local monger, I monger normally and don't "invest" on any WG for the purpose of being their loverboy for free session. I did between 120 and 140 sessions a year. But I am a cheap guy and most of my sessions were 30 min with cost of about 70 euro per 30-min session on average. Once in a while I found the girl whom I liked a lot, so I did more sessions with her. For this particular girl, I did 7 or 8 30-min normal sessions before starting to get free session. But I don't consider they were the "investment" because I had good time with her and would do her anyway even if I don't get free session now. I admit I have special feeling for her and care about her. I have my moral standard and don't ask her for anything except free sex.
I think that for local mongers like you, after 4 sessions with the WG within relatively short period of time, you can start to make a move because by that time she knows that you have special interest in her and are not a "normal" monger for her. But the key is that you HAVE TO select the girl at 18 or 19 years old (preferably 18) and it won't work if she is over 19. During the later sessions, you should start to make some romantic comments like I like you a lot, you are beautiful and so on..[/QUOTE]18/20 yo little girls have not much interest to play with, only maybe worth for freshness and not always. Most often lack of sensuality for behavior and in bed, I prefer to play with woman types, much more interesting, and usually mum women are great for sweetness in bed. I love classy mannered, elegant woman types.
I love You from a girl or when You made her cum, don t mean anything in this business. Today she may claim to love You, and tomorrow hate You. Not real love like in real life, just illusion, even when it s for free and out of clubs. What a pride to have relationship with a WG fucked by everybody for money.
I really enjoy when difficult to communicate with the girl, not speaking english, then only eyes, smiles, hands and caresses talk. Really enjoyable, no lies.
[QUOTE=Takedown;2194082]Most normal girls from affluent backgrounds remain idealistic for a while but girls who come from poverty lose their idealism much much earlier. But that doesn't mean they would never date a poor guy. Jaded, money hungry women all over the world still get in relationships with broke, loser boyfriends well into there 30's. Women are inconsistent and incongruent so the words always and never should hardly ever be used to describe their actions.[/QUOTE]I totally agree on this one, and there are tons of examples. Except it might be better to not generalise women. Better to say both men and women are inconsistent in these matters. It is part of being individuals.
[QUOTE=Bfsie;2194190]I admit I have special feeling for her and care about her.[/QUOTE]If you have special feelings and care about her, I assume you go out with her in public.
[QUOTE=Bfsie;2194190]I have my moral standard and don't ask her for anything except free sex.[/QUOTE]Often times people never ask. Sometimes it is understood. If I am at a restaurant with a GF, she will just ask for the check and pay. We more or less alternate on who pays. But nobody keeps track whose "turn" it is. If I specifically insist on going to an upscale restaurant of my choosing, then of course, I would pay every time. For bigger things like holidays, a GF would say something like "I already booked the airfare. Don't forget to book the hotel".
For the first example, I never asked her to pay. For the second example, we may have agreed a week prior on dates for a planned holiday, but I never asked her to pay for our airfare. She just did it proactively. And then told me that I was responsible for paying for the hotel.
[QUOTE=Bfsie;2194190]For this particular girl, I did 7 or 8 30-min normal sessions before starting to get free session.[/QUOTE]
So that first free session would represent the "turning point". Does she just tell you at the money locker, "you don't need to pay"? Do you offer to pay, then she hands the money back to you?
[QUOTE=McAdonis;2194375]So that first free session would represent the "turning point". Does she just tell you at the money locker, "you don't need to pay"? Do you offer to pay, then she hands the money back to you?[/QUOTE]In my experience with 2 girls who gave me "in club" discounts, I always offered to pay at reception or near the lockers. I'the take out my money wallet or the appropriate amount, they'the quickly grab just a single 50 or 100 note and take off when the bill should have been 200 or 300. Never had a completely free session in the club. If they were upset at me for something, they would take the full amount.
[QUOTE=Takedown;2194380]In my experience with 2 girls who gave me "in club" discounts, I always offered to pay at reception or near the lockers. I'the take out my money wallet or the appropriate amount, they'the quickly grab just a single 50 or 100 note and take off when the bill should have been 200 or 300. Never had a completely free session in the club. If they were upset at me for something, they would take the full amount.[/QUOTE]Girls do not like other clients to see how much you are charging who because apparently many guys accuse girls of you did that to such and such for how much etc LOL.
However, nothing is free in FKK no matter what. I got free session once in FKK, but that is only I gave her free legal herbs as I promised to bring a day earlier, so I guess she was touched that I remembered and brought it for her, but again, it is not really free, I paid for that legal herbs though it must have been like 10 euro as a value and I got good 30 min.
Nothing is free in tuting world in one way or another we are paying for it.
On the other hand, nothing is free in sex with normal girls either, you are paying for wining and dining, trips, hotels etc etc.
Some guys see this reality, most guys do not see this reality and lives in illusion that girls and society sells to you LOL.
McAdonis,
I will give you a overview of the relationship between us, otherwise we will get into endless discussions which would be beyond the point of helping the readers and I am not interested in.
First all, I don't go to FKK clubs as you probably know, so there is no locker room. Everything happened before 7 or 8 sessions was in the room of a brothel. I have always one principle in my mind and that is: my love for her as the currency exchanges for her sex, the same principle as loverboy's as I explained in my previous post. Remember she is in love with me and our relationship is a relationship of loverboy and his girl. In theory and in practice, I don't have to pay anything for free sex because I provide her with my love. In this particular case, I could even ask her for money if I want to, based on my intuition, because she is a very popular WG and has good money. But I never did as I said I have my moral standard.
To answer your questions, we don't go to restaurant or have any outside event. When we met (usually in her place), we made love as she said. I didn't buy anything for her, none. But each time when I went there I made sure that I expressed my love for her and that is all she wants and wants to hear from me.
Lastly, I think that your "turning point" question is important for you and other readers to handle the moment for your own cases in the future. I basically said: "I love you and can I make love to you in your place or my place?" she said: "yes" ... Then we never talk about money for sex again.
McAdonis, if you feel that it is not proper to say what I said (I love you and can I make love to you in your place or my place?) That means your relationship with the WG is not ready yet for private meetings. You have to get to that point before having free sex.
[QUOTE=Bfsie;2194469]McAdonis,
I will give you a overview of the relationship between us, otherwise we will get into endless discussions which would be beyond the point of helping the readers and I am not interested in.[/QUOTE]Bfsie,
What you are describing reads like a hot movie plot. Could you kindly tell us how this relationship has ended (I am assuming it has), because it's also important to the subject of this discussion.
For ISG readers who are travelling mongers not living in Germany or a neighboring country, the situation is different and more difficult. For example, after a good number of my sessions with one girl, she asked to stop kissing her. Why? She said because she doesn't want to get too close and to fall in love with someone who isn't local. It made me kinda suffer and I suddenly felt lost in my heart because I wasn't prepared for such a change. However, I care about her and I don't force the issue further. I still fuck her each time she is in a club, but it has a feel of an ex girlfriend. If she'd start kissing again, I'd spend a lot more time with her in the room.
[QUOTE=SmokeLight;2194520]
What you are describing reads like a hot movie plot. Could you kindly tell us how this relationship has ended (I am assuming it has), because it's also important to the subject of this discussion.
[/QUOTE]The relationship has not ended and is still going on. It is not like a hot movie plot and it happens a lot in sex industry in Netherlands and Germany where I am very familiar with, particularly to the WGs at 18 and 19 years old.
[QUOTE=Smoke Light;2194520]
For ISG readers who are travelling mongers not living in Germany or a neighboring country, the situation is different and more difficult. [/QUOTE]
You are absolutely right. Traveling mongers have tremendous disadvantage in terms of relationship with WGs and actually make it almost impossible. So I don't blame traveling mongers' failure to have meaningful relationships with WGs and I have sympathy to them.
[QUOTE=SmokeLight;2194520] For example, after a good number of my sessions with one girl, she asked to stop kissing her. Why? She said because she doesn't want to get too close and to fall in love with someone who isn't local. [/QUOTE]Unfortunately this is the mentality of the WGs in Germany and Netherlands.
[QUOTE=Bfsie;2194576]The relationship has not ended and is still going on. It is not like a hot movie plot and it happens a lot in sex industry in Netherlands and Germany where I am very familiar with, particularly to the WGs at 18 and 19 years old.[/QUOTE]I am surprised that she is not paying you tons and tons of cash for you to be her "loverboy" - LOL.
Perhaps this could be a source of side income for you or another career option?
You are a lucky man!
[QUOTE=UltraHappy;2194583]
Perhaps this could be a source of side income for you or another career option?
[/QUOTE]LOL. I have my moral standard and will never do this no matter how poor I am, because they are the real victims of sex industry and I have my sympathy to them.