Tokyo

Gents,Had a nice time at Trinity, a Korean este in Otsuka last evening. http://www.paradise-bb.com/trinity/index2.html. 16,000 for 80 minutes, including table shower, hot towels, full body massage, ass-rimming, BBBJ and sumatra to climax. My partner was Nana, who just arrived from Seoul a month ago. I enjoy chatting with the girls but Nana's Japanese was pretty limited and English nonexistent, and she has a heavy accent, so it was hard to get much going in the way of non-physical communication. But she had a nice friendly attitude, and even gave me a manicure and pedicure, plus deep facial massage toward the end of the session.About a three minute walk from the North exit of Otsuka Station, on the third floor above a Matsuya. Basic Japanese ability required to negotiate with the guy at the front desk. One hour course also available for 12,000 yen.Sho

GAIGIN ENTRANCE.I have some questions for the gaigin experts.What is the main reason why you are not allowed into the clubs??I am talking about the Clubs that have the 19yo's like this club here http://www.fuzoku-townpage.com/d/m-heaven/20031127230208.htm#Is it because the girls think you are big?Is it because you are another race? Do they stop White/Black only/ Is this only against Americans(because of WWii and the nuke thing, or Is it also against Europeans?(I've seen many French with Japanese girlfriends/wives)What about other Asians??Is it because Japanese think you are full of diseases?I have a scheme to try to get into the clubs. I won't reveal it here til I try it. I've been told I look Japanase(I am not), not by a stretch of a imagination.Begging for pussy is not my style, I've to Asia before, but The more I look at the Fuzoku page the more I want to go to Japan now. Those girls look like they must have the tighest holes on earth, Am I correct??Are there any escort websites where you can order Japanese girls to come to your hotel? Can you post??PM's if you don't feel like answering in the forum.I will share info on other locations(many) if you ask.Sayonara!

Superstud,Lots of non-asians like to think it's because they are 'too big'. This could be true but thats not why they don't want to serve foreigners. I believe it's mainly racial. Anyone non Japanese would have trouble getting served. Of course some accept asians and not non-whites (in Korea for example) but Japan is generally very not foreigner friendly. Maybe it's because most shops have no trouble getting customers. I bet Japanese men spend the most or close to the most money on sex in the entire world. On another note, I tried out a chinese este in Otsuka, called 'Love Game'. Girl had a cute face and average body. Got a real nice shower, massage, bbbj and fs. Price was 9k. Not a bad deal. I asked if they would accept foreigners and they said no problem, just no Chinese because the girls are chinese and they'd rather not meet people from their own country. Also I think it could matter, for example if there were Japanese guys in the waiting room and if a white guy came in that might scare them a bit. At that point they might reject you. Just a thought.url is http://www.a-side.com/lovegame/Not bad for 9k, if you are interested in chinese estes. Note that the photos are brushed up quite a bit.

Hi superstud,I've been rejected from about 40 clubs in my Japan experience, and got in to a few. I'm Asian American but I don't think it made much difference (for getting rejected). No one would doubt I was Japanese if I could speak it with no accent, but it's clear that I'm not when I open my mouth. I speak some Japanese and know several Japanese friends, and my insight is that clubs don't let gaijin in for many reasons. But first, here are some situations where clubs do let gaijin in, even if they normally don't:1) Business is low, and some girls in the club will service gaijin. (only applies to some clubs)2) You are dressed decently and speak some Japanese. You look like you won't cause trouble, and that you can follow simple rules. (only applies to some clubs)Now as for the reasons why they reject gaijin, many of them make sense in that a small minority of gaijin completely ruined it for the rest of us. Keep in mind the average Japanese hasn't seen enough gaijin to recognize which ones are the troublemakers. If I ran a club, I'd instantly know which gaijin to let in and which ones are going to ruin my club. Now here are the reasons I've noticed:1) Some gaijin can't understand or follow important rules. For example, how the drink system works at a hostess bar, or how not to break simple rules which are clearly displayed in English. I can't see most Americans breaking these rules, but I know a few Americans who would and would start a fight in a club. Suppose we're talking about rules at a strip club on where you can touch the girl or what you can do with her. Now at an American club, they have a bouncer that just warns the girl, cuz we all know the girls are supposed to break the rules. At a Japanese club, the rules are precisely the rules.2) Some gaijin are noisy and bothersome, by Japanese standards. I found myself in subways rummaging through my backpack and then quieting myself when I realized I was noisier than everyone else combined. =)3) Other Japanese don't want to frequent a club where they get sloppy seconds from Americans. I could care less if I were Japanese, but I know many Americans wouldn't choose a club if most of the clientele were Japanese enjoying 'their' women. As a business owner of a club, you have to keep in mind that some of your customers are going to be racists. =P If American businesses were allowed to be racist (whether legal or through lack of enforcement), you bet they'd start turning back the clocks in an instant. I've noticedd that race or gender does matter when people look for a roommate for an apartment. And those roommate-finders have the same legal standing to discriminate in the US as a Japanese bar does in Japan (both illegal, but almost never enforced).4) The girls won't service Americans, out of personal misconceptions, preferences, or fears. As an Asian American, I can say this is no different than the United States, some caucasian women like asians, some don't at all. Of course, I'm happy to service any woman provided she is up to par, but many Americans and Japanese have strongly programmed prejudices when it comes to servicing each other.5) There is some concern of diseases, but this is more an afterthought in light of the reasons above.I doubt WW2 is any significant factor, because most people in their 20's don't even know who WW2 was fought with or who won. This is a fact, as demonstrated by one study that found most Japanese youths did not know who won WW2. It's evident in the fact that many textbooks mention WW2 in a few sentences. And moreover, more Japanese than not have a positive impression of Americans in general. That still doesn't mean they want their women to service us.Almost all the clubs I was rejected from would not have allowed Europeans either, especially if they couldn't speak Japanese or English. I've seen and met an inordinate number of Americans with Japanese wives in Japan, both white and black, so I don't know what part of Japan you were walking around.If you have a scheme that will work without embarrassing you or the rest of us, that's great. Or maybe you could have a Japanese friend bring you in. Or you could find a club that will let you in anyways, and go in. Do you speak any Chinese or Korean? If so, you can get into those clubs and get serviced by those girls much easier.I'll be in Japan in a few weeks, so I'm going to try again now that my Japanese is better and I have an idea of what clubs to look for.

PS. A lot more could be said about why the women working at clubs won't service Americans. I'm only going to offer a few suggestions based on my conversations with them:a) They can't communicate with you sufficiently. It's more work for them to get your money. They know they can eat up some people's time by just talking with them, but now they have to put out for you because they can't have convo with you. Japanese customers are easier money at times.b) Because they can't communicate with you well, you two remain strangers and it might be uncomfortable. Girls in clubs Japanese and American don't want to service customers they can't be friendly and smalltalk with. If you can talk with them just a little and show them you're not a psycho, it goes a long way.c) It's a crapshoot for them. They don't know what you look like until they sit down with you. They're already taking that crapshoot with Japanese customers, who they understand and communicate with, they don't want to play a second defensive game with a few Americans.d) If we're talking about soaplands, some Americans have huge cocks, more frequently than Japanese. This is a simple fact demonstrated by the size of condoms in each country. These women want to keep their pussies tight as long as possible, to save them for me. I respect these hard working and prudent businesswomen for that sentiment.Of course, some places will accept gaijin, so we should just go there and make them profitable and expand the market. Let's not blame the Japanese for being afraid of our huge pussy stretching cocks, and focus on helping each other find the places that will let their women service us.Traveler X

Super6:Re: GaijinThere are two principal reasons that I've gathered in my conversations with many Japanese friends and co-workers why gaijin are restricted from clubs.1. Contamination.2. Language and cultural barrier.The contamination factor comes from Japan being a homogeneous society with very little genetic mixing. Most Japanese men do not want to pay for services with Japanese ladies who service foreigners. It's human nature to be averse to things you're not familiar or comfortable with and Japanese are no different. This is not going to change so there's no use in getting mad about it. Just work with the system and deal with it.The language and cultural barrier is also quite relevant. As a visitor, who is usually treated quite well, much better than the average Japanese, some may come to expect this sort of treatment all the time. Once you become a resident and "one of them" everything changes and you're no longer treated with the same sort of novelty and respect that you get when you first arrive. I think every gaijin resident in Japan experiences this. You can learn the language and the culture but you're still not Japanese. You may be really engrained into the society but you are still an outsider. Unless you have a special introduction with the shopmaster, you're not going to have much luck with cold calls, in my experience. I got into one high class place once because a Japanese friend of mine brought me there and set everything up. Without that intro I had no chance to even look inside the door.Instead, it's probably more practical to focus on what can be had instead of what can't. If you try to force the issue at these places, you just make it worse for everybody else. The Korean massage parlors, booths at Koganecho, gaijin-friendly pink salons in Shibuya and Shinjuku and other gaijin-friendly places mentioned in this forum should be more than enough for most mongerers.

Traveler X -- I disagree. As a resident of Japan for more than 2 years I have a farily well founded experience of acceptance/rejection in Japanese clubs.1) Communication - of course this is important when using clubs that specialize in more vebal interaction like image or SM. But how much small talk is required or even initiated for Pink Salon, Esute or Health? Just a few words is generally enough in ANY country OTHER than Japan to gain entrance and enjoy.2) Cock size/pussy size. First - there's no way a cock can permanently stretch a pussy. It's biologically impossible. If it was then your whole body would be sagging from non-resilient tissue(s). Secondly, The size of a woman does not necessarily indicate the inherent length of her pussy. I've fucked hundreds of women around the world (I'm sure I'm not the only monger with a decent statistical sample) and found small women with loose pussies and large women with tight ones. And in Japan, the same! I have a regular freebie that is super petite, less than 40kg and 155cm, but can 'handle' my <monster> gaijin cock easily. In fact she loves it deep as can be! My other regular who is swedish and much taller, larger in every sense, complains if I do her from behind because I bottom out!3) Every Japanese woman I have been with has not been astounded by my penis size. They really don't care so much. They are more interested in the size of my nose! So let's throw away the cock size/pussy size argument. The only people here concerned about that are Japanese MEN!4) Remember - entrance to the club is determined by the MEN who OWN the club. Not the women who work there. If you visit any club that denies your entrance, you will notice you are denied at the counter! Not by ANY women who are actually doing the deeds.5) Japan is the most homogeneous country in the world with over 95% of Japanese living IN Japan! It is racist and segregationist. In fact even the Ministry of Government Homepage has a special form for Japanese to inform on irritating foreigners they suspect. As a gaijin you are simply not welcome here. You are tolerated out of necessity. Of course there are exceptions to the rule, but this is the general feeling and it plays even harder in more personal venues such as sex industry. Think about it - even when Japanese live as U.S. citizens, IN the U.S., they refer to their neighbors and friends who are non-Japanese as gaijin. And whenever they say about travel to Japan, it's ALWAYS using the word for RETURN to home. And when they actually return to their country of citizenship (U.S.) AND real home, they use the word for travelling AWAY! This is not my casual observation, I listen closely to how Japanese speak whenever I'm away from Japan and I have heard this similar conversation many, many times.6) How TO get into clubs: A) Dress well - almost every Japanese guy will be wearing his salarysuit - your chances improve when you are not the nail that sticks up [sic]. B) Speak some Japanese to increase the comfort level C) Go with a Japanese friend. If you notice - many Japanese men go together in these clubs. Men who go to these clubs alone are considered a bit 'sukebe' or perverted - but men together are seen as a bonding group or normal. And of course if you go with a Japanese guy, he will vouch for you and explain that you are OK. D) Learn the system and rules. Also, learn about the protocol of just being in ANY Japanese space. Shoe placement, slippers, bowing, polite words, etc. Japanese culture depends on everyone expecting the same from everyone else.Ganbatte!

Yesterday, walking around Kabukicho at 5 PM, was approached by an older Australian sounding tout who offered university age J girls for 1.5 man one hr, FS. I was late for an appointment so declined but everything sounded good. Even offered for me to look first and come back later. Said he would be there this weekend.Take exit 13 from Marunochi line, when you reach street, looking toward "My City" go right and then next right (down slope) and go one block across main street, past fruit shop and then one more block. Has anyone had any luck with these types of arrangements?

Since I'm considered by some to be a old Asian hand I'll try to explain about the behavior of the Ladies toward all Westerners and actually anyone not Japanese.There is no place that's more ethnically BIGOT orientated then Japan. Even Korean or Chinese living in Japan for several hundred years are considered second hand citizens.Many Japanese Restaurants, Clubs, Entertainment Business and especially Prostitutes won't do business with anybody except Japanese. It's generally a matter of Face or Pride, doesn't make sense to anyone but the providers, or even Management.This is starting to change, especially as woman become more adventuresome, independent or experimental. There are even Woman operating or doing business independently during the last few years. There are even several places that arrange meeting for married woman interested in experimenting where they charge both sides for their service. Any half way attractive foreigner that speaks the language will be hit on often at Mall's or Department stores, where he'll get the chance to screw his brains out at a short time hotel.Believe me it's not your size, as any Woman can accommodate the majority of men. It's mostly the shape of your eyes and that your not a native. Also believe it or not but Japanese men often Pay more then Foreigners, as they are suckers for getting whatever costs more, thinking it's better and providers are aware of this situation. Remember any "Geisha" costs exorbitant prices by any standards without any guarantees.The less on the ball providers suffer from the misconception that they will enhance their value by not accommodating foreigners, even thinking that they will become soiled by doing the deed.Those that do take the step find that it's more fun and overall they are much more happy and better adjusted and bring in more talent in the long run.North Seattle

Soujourn:Re: Gaijin AcceptanceYou hit the nail on the head in every respect! I really didn't want to get into the racist thing too much but it's a fact of life. I've been in Japan on and off for over ten years now and it's really a wonderful place when you start figuring out all of the rules (yes means no, for instance) and figure out some of the subtleties like never talking straight to the point, saving face, not making too much noise (except those silly school girls in sailor suits on the trains who seem to jabber and laugh so obnoxiously), and letting things slide when they don't go your way.There's a lot of very positive things about this place and one of them is the practical attitude towards sex. One of the things that I don't like are gaijin horror stories of some idiot gaijin getting out of line and ruining it for all of us. That's where a lot of those silly rules and rejections come from, experiences that were unpleasant.When you say, "As a gaijin you are simply not welcome here. You are tolerated out of necessity," it really says it all and when gaijin get this idea that they are owed a favor is when the trouble usually starts.I think your point about the way Japanese away from Japan talk about "home" and "going away" when they are actually going to the place of their naturalized citizenship or permanent residence is absolutely right.

Today around 3 pm I visited the Ikebukuro branch of Hinomaru. It is quite easy to find. From Ikebukuro station, take the west exit and go into the main street staight ahead (it has a McDonald's at the right corner).Continue a few blocks until you see the OICITY department store on your left and a Daiwa Securities branch on your right. Make a right immediately past Daiwa. Hinomaru is on the left at the end of the first block. Take the stairs down to B2F.I was greeted very politely and got a 2000 yen discount using the coupon found online at www.hinomarukanko.com, thus paying 6000 yen (which includes a beer or two). I found the atmosphere inside pleasant, more spacious and open than Seiki 21. However, the girl was a bit of a disappointment - not a very good looker and somewhat smelly.After a very cursory cleanup (much less than at Seiki), she started a CBJ, which was rather good, but definitely no GFE (too mechanical).I will probably try it again, but would opt for a different girl.

Hi Sojourn,Thanks for the reply, it helps to have a second insight into these points.1) I did have a good amount of smalltalk at various clubs. I've found from American clubs that it's very important in order to get both people relaxed, and I've been told as much by professionals. This is just my experience and observation.2) I completely agree with you. I don't think my post was really saying any of the points you were addressing. I hope you'll see some of my comments were really tongue in cheek observations, and that the only point I was really making was that there is in fact a very real cock gap.3) I have met Japanese women who were curious and surprised by the difference. My real point was really that the workers are afraid of the unknown, whatever that may be. Some of these workers haven't met many Americans. I know when I was in Japan, I was the first American for many Japanese, although this was partly because I don't like tourist areas (except when the sun sets!).Where I live in the US, we don't have such a problem with racism because the average person here has seen many Asians. But when you arrive at the wrong part of the country, the Americans in some places are exactly as racist segregationist as the Japanese, to the point of being physically threatening. My cousin was spit at by people in one place (thinking he was a "damn Jap") because of ill feelings from WW2. Too bad those people don't know the war is over and he wasn't Japanese. Which is probably why they still live in that part of the country to begin with. ;-)4) I am aware it is the men doing the rejection, when you are rejected from the club itself. However, I noticed that at certain clubs that did let me in, only some women were willing to take gaijin (and the man in front knew who they were). So in fact, it is a combination of the club and the women rejecting gaijin. I can confirm this firsthand on more than one occasion. Even when the man at the door lets me in, my choice may still be further limited by the women's own policies.5) My experience is very different than this. In most cities (as opposed to Tokyo), people went out of their way to help me constantly. I was treated well by most strangers (far more than I'd expect in the states), and had no trouble fitting in in any area except the RLD. Tokyo is notoriously different, because that's how they treat everyone. I know many friends who moved from Osaka to Tokyo only to be shocked at how cold people were, not even giving directions. It's no different than any other super-sized city like New York where they couldn't care less about the next person. It was honestly a night and day difference for me, because I spent most of my time in other cities.I have long been aware of your observations on Japanese and their way of thinking, but I wouldn't draw too many deep conclusions based on language and differences in expression. English and Western culture have the very same kind of problems in different areas. We use he when we really mean "he/she" (as do a ton of languages), we say delivery man instead of "delivery person". But it would be excessive to say that this means all English speakers are obsessed sexists. Yet liberal extremists have made that exact argument and then some.The US government has one-upped the Japanese, they actually have a network of informants now to report suspicious foreigners (read Muslims and Arabs). Worse can be said for most countries in the world.I've noticed that many people either have very positive or very negative impressions of Japanese and how they behave as a whole. While the Japanese may have certain ways of thinking that are more extreme than Westerners, I have yet to see any behaviour out of them that certain groups of Westernerers don't also do, even if it is merely to a lesser extent.-Traveler X

Endowed, I know the guy you are talking about, met him while shopping with another WSG fellow in Kabukicho, He told us about a soapland, which he claimed to be the only one which took foreigners (this is not true there was another soap which said they would service foreigners but they quoted 65,000) Went with him to the "soapland" he claimed had J-girls working there. It turned out to be a Chinese massage palor on the fifth floor. Said good bye to the guy at that point.Went to a party this afternoon with another WSG fellow had a good time but the facilities left a lot to be desired. First the bathroom is small with very little space to change in to the robe they give you and you are constantly under pressure to get out of there as the toilet is in the bathroom so if you are under pressure, you are out of luck until the person taking a shower is out of there. The play room is larger but the quality of the girls went down. I didn`t get much advance notice so I could not call the girls I know so....

TravX:Re: Gaijin AcceptanceI think we have all met Japanese ladies and had good experiences and I'm not sure the ones you've met were workers or just meetings with regular OL. The difference between meeting a lady randomly and meeting a lady who is working is night and day. My point is, the working lady is a captive audience (as is the lady operating the cash register at the local convenience store) and she cannot just walk away if she doesn't like you. This changes the rules of the game. A lady you meet at the coffee shop can just leave and tell you to take a hike which puts her in a much stronger position than someone who is meeting you as a part of her job.I'm not sure if my experiences regarding Tokyo people being like NYC people is the same. In very busy areas around major stations (Shinjuku, Shibuya, Shinagawa, Tokyo, etc) I expect people to be in a hurry and not have much time to answer my dumb questions. I've wandered the neighborhoods for years inside of the Yamanote loop away from major stations and found the people (especially the residents, housewives, etc.) to be quite friendly and helpful, even if they couldn't understand me or didn't know about what I was asking.Also, remember that some of us are considered "resident gaijin" because of the time we've been here and the way we behave while others still are considered "honored visitor" which makes a huge difference in how you are treated.

Soujourn,Great analysis! It was a LOL!Since the thread is talking about Japanese acceptance or rejection of foreigners, I'll throw my 2 yen in here to give my side. There are establishments that refuse foreigners with signs saying so. It isn't necessarily the polarised society reason, but foreigners not understanding the culture and presenting it, accidently, as a dishonourable way, simply by not knowing how. The Japanese have no time for this. There are specific times when to say certain Japanese honourific words to respect one's ranking and to respect one's own ranking. Yes, a foreigner may be second class in Japan, so respect that because that foreigner should know it isn't worth squat to prove he/she is not second class. It's just a fact of life in Japan.So to conclude that "foreigners" are not welcome in Japan is absolutely NOT true. Only foreigners that are bad people whom don't belong in Japan are not welcome and should be removed. For the entertainment areas, which this converastion is really focused about, there are just styles of entertainment the Japanese DON'T want foreigners to know about and simply feel those foreigners can't handle it. This is true. It has nothing to do with AIDS, SARS, big dicks, etc., but more to do with lack of communication, lack of honourific Japanese, lack of "scrupples", and trying to negotiate when it isn't welcome. All this over the period of many decades has created what we see today. If you want lots of sex, go to Bangkok. If you want lots of sex in Japan, pay for it. Many will serve you if you dish out the yen. Show someone that doesn't take foreigners 100000 yen and they will take you. Speak the highest level honourific Japanese and watch what they do.But all being equal, if one wants to pay the rates the Japanese pay, one has to, in essence do what a Japanese person will do. You will be surprised what perks actually exist. If you try to "be Japanese" and don't really know how, don't try. Be yourself, there will be someone, somewhere in Japan to serve you. Notice the billions of businesses in which someone is always served by it. It should be like that in the US, not Walmart and everything illegal.One will never end "racism", but getting an *iya* from a Japanese is much better, IMHO, than being threatened by a US racist pig that is a terrorist in disguise with a knife for my wallet in any major US city. Blacks calling blacks epithats in front of whites....etc. Just that last sentence alone is such uneducated, headache style, low level math, I have no need to see it, be involved, whatever. Japan is safe and I know I am welcome there with the friends I created in Japan. All Japanese. All good times. All safe. All educated. And when I want to get laid, I get it myself. I haven't been turned away from "Japanese only" after researching places I wanted to see on my own.Best of success! Gyaos