East China - Shanghai

[QUOTE=Boag11;2082113]Alright boys, I was one of the fellows that fell into the mess at the end of August, using sng. Everyone that was caught that night had contacted the girls via Judy within at least the last TWO weeks. Steve and Judy were both caught. From what I know they got to Judy first and used her wechat to find some of us. Also a couple of the girls were being trailed by LE for at least two weeks. The order for these busts came from up high, beyond the police chief of shanghai. Bribes did not work, one person claimed to of tried a 100 k rmb bribe.

Once caught we were detained for 24 hours then issued a 10-15 day "Administrative Detention" only 1 call allowed prior being sent to detention location where embassies were contacted in around 3-5 days, no other outside contact beyond that. While there more shanghai locals came in, we were the only foreigners. During the 8th or 9th day, rumors of more raids came in from spas, MP, and saunas, a total of 80-100 detained.

The Administrative detention is considered a slap on the wrist and as far as I know will not impact employment directly unless your employer has connections and decide to dig deep but you will have to explain going missing for 10-15 days. 2 were let go with a 500 rmb fine, I do not know the reasons why.

As far as I know the raids might go on for a bit longer and might extend into November. If you contacted Judy in the last month I suggest staying away from shanghai, at least 2 foreigners were brought in and detained TWO weeks after the fact. They will go to your hotel to pick you up and look up hotel security cameras for proof of girls entering and leaving your room.

If you do get caught, put on 2 pairs of shirts and 2 pair of boxers and if you can 2 pair of pants, you will need it.

GL.[/QUOTE]How many foreigners did you see in total?

[QUOTE=Boag11;2082113]Alright boys, I was one of the fellows that fell into the mess at the end of August, using sng. Everyone that was caught that night had contacted the girls via Judy within at least the last TWO weeks. Steve and Judy were both caught. From what I know they got to Judy first and used her wechat to find some of us. Also a couple of the girls were being trailed by LE for at least two weeks. The order for these busts came from up high, beyond the police chief of shanghai. Bribes did not work, one person claimed to of tried a 100 k rmb bribe.

Once caught we were detained for 24 hours then issued a 10-15 day "Administrative Detention" only 1 call allowed prior being sent to detention location where embassies were contacted in around 3-5 days, no other outside contact beyond that. While there more shanghai locals came in, we were the only foreigners. During the 8th or 9th day, rumors of more raids came in from spas, MP, and saunas, a total of 80-100 detained.

The Administrative detention is considered a slap on the wrist and as far as I know will not impact employment directly unless your employer has connections and decide to dig deep but you will have to explain going missing for 10-15 days. 2 were let go with a 500 rmb fine, I do not know the reasons why..[/QUOTE]Which of the girls were they tracking exactly? Were any of them Viets?

Should you be fine if you contacted the girls directly, not through Judy?

Boag-.

Thanks for sharing your ordeal. Scary.

SNG had a good thing going for awhile but that's obviously over. Given the current zeal of LE, I personally will only use an unregistered wechat account, deal directly with the girls, not discuss money via wechat and not disclose my room / apartment number (meet them in the lobby). But I really prefer the Manhattan option. No electronic trail.

[QUOTE=TheGuy;2082443]Boag-.
Thanks for sharing your ordeal. Scary.
SNG had a good thing going for awhile but that's obviously over. Given the current zeal of LE, I personally will only use an unregistered wechat account, deal directly with the girls and not disclose my room / apartment number (meet them in the lobby). But I really prefer the Manhattan option. No electronic trail.[/QUOTE]Sound advice, but I don't understand the meaning of an "unregistered weChat account", and what is the advantage of the lack of registration from a security point of view.

Ikks.

[QUOTE=FiftyShades;2082344]How many foreigners did you see in total?[/QUOTE]14 Total guys, 12 Foreigners, 1 Chinese national from the US, 1 Chinese national that lived in Shanghai.

[QUOTE=Yeahm8;2082439]Which of the girls were they tracking exactly? Were any of them Viets?

Should you be fine if you contacted the girls directly, not through Judy?[/QUOTE]Not sure which or how many girls were tracked but at least one were. I believe it was one of the Chinese girls. Don't believe any of the Viet girls were caught in the raid that night but I have no information on if any were caught afterwards. If you contacted the girls directly it should be OK. It is very risky if you contacted Judy.

[QUOTE=Ikksman;2082448]Sound advice, but I don't understand the meaning of an "unregistered weChat account", and what is the advantage of the lack of registration from a security point of view.

Ikks.[/QUOTE]The Chinese govt wants everyone to link their sim card to their identity. In fact, it's now the law. The phone number connected to the sim card is used to establish a wechat account. In that manner, the govt always knows who has said what on wechat.

If you establish the wechat acct with a foreign number, or better yet, use a Chinese sim card in someone else's name, that's safer. Some of the 5 star hotels sell sim cards for tourists (as a convenience). Those are a good option.

[QUOTE=TheGuy;2082508]The Chinese govt wants everyone to link their sim card to their identity. In fact, it's now the law. The phone number connected to the sim card is used to establish a wechat account. In that manner, the govt always knows who has said what on wechat.
If you establish the wechat acct with a foreign number, or better yet, use a Chinese sim card in someone else's name, that's safer. Some of the 5 star hotels sell sim cards for tourists (as a convenience). Those are a good option.[/QUOTE]Thanks, I understand. I was hoping that you had discovered a way to have total anonymity on your We Chat account.

I actually have one WeChat account (established late 2011) that is associated with a SIM / phone number purchased in 2010, and no longer used, and an anonymous email account. So, there is no link to me AFAIK. But I am still cautious!

Ikks.

[QUOTE=Yeahm8;2082439]Which of the girls were they tracking exactly? Were any of them Viets?

Should you be fine if you contacted the girls directly, not through Judy?[/QUOTE]All the independent girls that were not using the hotline are still free. Though doesn't mean they're safe, maybe police is planning a second wave. Though I assume they knew the girls would start running for the hills the moment Steven disappeared.

[QUOTE=TheGuy;2082508]The Chinese govt wants everyone to link their sim card to their identity. In fact, it's now the law. The phone number connected to the sim card is used to establish a wechat account. In that manner, the govt always knows who has said what on wechat.

If you establish the wechat acct with a foreign number, or better yet, use a Chinese sim card in someone else's name, that's safer. Some of the 5 star hotels sell sim cards for tourists (as a convenience). Those are a good option.[/QUOTE]I guess the question at this point is: If you have contacted a sauna via Wechat at anytime in the past, are you in danger? If people who contacted Judy from SNG were in danger, then certainly it means the higher ups are indeed targeting actual clientele, not just the establishments. Does anyone have any stories or info about being apprehended solely based on evidence of being in the contact lists for a sauna manager (or having a chat history with one)?

I cannot imagine they would try to catch everyone who has ever contacted a sauna. That would be hundreds of thousands of people!

[QUOTE=Optional;2082568]I guess the question at this point is: If you have contacted a sauna via Wechat at anytime in the past, are you in danger? If people who contacted Judy from SNG were in danger, then certainly it means the higher ups are indeed targeting actual clientele, not just the establishments. Does anyone have any stories or info about being apprehended solely based on evidence of being in the contact lists for a sauna manager (or having a chat history with one)?

I cannot imagine they would try to catch everyone who has ever contacted a sauna. That would be hundreds of thousands of people![/QUOTE]Agree with you.

Haven't heard of anyone getting apprehended because they're in contact with Judy or other sauna managers. I think to actually charged a person requires harder evidence as even if you commit to a sauna appointment or appointment, it's not enough evidence to prove that you paid for illegal services rendered.

However, if you're actually in a sauna during a raid, there's more circumstantial evidence to charge you. What if you're in the waiting area, for example? Is it illegal to just be in an sauna at all? Is one able to play dumb and say you didn't know what this was & thought you were getting a massage?

[QUOTE=Boag11;2082113]Everyone that was caught that night had contacted the girls via Judy within at least the last TWO weeks. Steve and Judy were both caught. From what I know they got to Judy first and used her wechat to find some of us. Also a couple of the girls were being trailed by LE for at least two weeks. The order for these busts came from up high, beyond the police chief of shanghai. Bribes did not work, one person claimed to of tried a 100 k rmb bribe.

As far as I know the raids might go on for a bit longer and might extend into November. If you contacted Judy in the last month I suggest staying away from shanghai, at least 2 foreigners were brought in and detained TWO weeks after the fact. They will go to your hotel to pick you up and look up hotel security cameras for proof of girls entering and leaving your room.

GL.[/QUOTE]First, thanks a lot for this report. This was very insightful.

However, I still want to break this down to calm some nerves and clarify as some people might be freaking out.

Given what I read, if you a) Avoid talking to Judy (as that's how some people got lured in by the police) or any other manager, you are partly safe. We all need to do that anyway going forward.

Now, for retroactive activity, you also mentioned that, "If you contacted Judy in the last month I suggest staying away from shanghai, at least 2 foreigners were brought in and detained TWO weeks after the fact. They will go to your hotel to pick you up and look up hotel security cameras for proof of girls entering and leaving your room" - When you say contact, I think you mean you both contacted and agreed on a meeting. If it's just contact to inquire information, I don't see why it would justify getting detained. Also, how would they find the hotel? Perhaps this assumes that they will go to the same place that you arranged the meeting at? I guess they would need to check the details from Judy's phone and go to your exact hotel that you're staying in today? What if you're not in the same hotel / room anymore? Maybe they can look up information somehow via your phone number?

Even if you agreed on a meeting, they would need proof of illegal activity. Security camera evidence of a woman coming in and out of your room shouldn't be cause but together with a text message confirming a meeting might be enough depending on the contents of the text message. Can't you say you met up and never actually did anything or got a massage? Maybe that's just not convincing enough.

Sorry to hear about your ordeal. Glad to know you seem to be okay and able to give us some insight about what happened. I don't quite understand how they caught people from Steven or Judy's wechat acct. Did LE use Judy's acct pretending to be her and entrap people? Or did they just show up at your place of residence and charge you based on things said on wechat?

If this is the case, I don't see Judy or Steven being treated lightly. Considering that they were the organizers, they should be in some serious trouble regardless if they cooperated or not with LE.

[QUOTE=TheTrooper21;2082656]{S N I P}Even if you agreed on a meeting, they would need proof of illegal activity. Security camera evidence of a woman coming in and out of your room shouldn't be cause but together with a text message confirming a meeting might be enough depending on the contents of the text message. Can't you say you met up and never actually did anything or got a massage? Maybe that's just not convincing enough.[/QUOTE]Do Chinese Police need proof? And there are also stories of them 'finding' a condom in a waste bin and using that as sufficient evidence, whether it be in a sauna or a hotel room.

Anyway, SNG may have been specifically targeted. I understand Steven had close contact with a very senior GA official. The recent change of guard in Shanghai may have been the trigger for his demise.

Ikks.

[QUOTE=TheTrooper21;2082656]First, thanks a lot for this report. This was very insightful.

However, I still want to break this down to calm some nerves and clarify as some people might be freaking out.

Given what I read, if you a) Avoid talking to Judy (as that's how some people got lured in by the police) or any other manager, you are partly safe. We all need to do that anyway going forward.

Now, for retroactive activity, you also mentioned that, "If you contacted Judy in the last month I suggest staying away from shanghai, at least 2 foreigners were brought in and detained TWO weeks after the fact. They will go to your hotel to pick you up and look up hotel security cameras for proof of girls entering and leaving your room" - When you say contact, I think you mean you both contacted and agreed on a meeting. If it's just contact to inquire information, I don't see why it would justify getting detained. Also, how would they find the hotel?.[/QUOTE]I agree with this and wanted to add on top of that. I don't think they are targeting the clientele. Like it was said, there's hundreds of thousands of clients. I think the customers who got picked up this time were 'collateral'. The evidence they took from the hotel camera's I suspect wasn't meant to put the customer in jail, but the escort girl. Before the site went dead, the number of active girls reporting under judy was 14 (Hu Jing, Purple, Baby, Susan, Alisa (R), Pia, Tessa, Baobao, Tina, Daisy, Alia (R), Maria, Kiki, Malena). Though statuses might have changed, and I know Hu Jing is still free and Jessica is in jail. All the independent escort girls are still free as well.

It would be interesting if Boag can tell us of the 14 foreigners who got picked up; which girl they believed got them in jail. Gives a clue as well which girl is likely now in jail.

My guess is is as Boag11 said. They got onto Judy, followed her and her girls for awhile until they had hard evidence all her girls were escorts, also got to Steven & then started arresting them on Aug 31st.

But again, since it's not mid October yet; the police still can have more tricks up their sleeves. I would not do anything in Shanghai right now.