Dufey. Just wanted to wish you good luck. One small optimistic point - I can see no reason why a girl from a club should not be as good as any "normal" girl. In fact their experience, if they have handled it right, should be an asset
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Dufey. Just wanted to wish you good luck. One small optimistic point - I can see no reason why a girl from a club should not be as good as any "normal" girl. In fact their experience, if they have handled it right, should be an asset
[QUOTE=Nick The G; 1352093]As long as you have no trust in yourself and no love to give, why are you looking for trustworthy others? No need to blame it on somebody else.
With an almost dried-out state of mind, that tries to regain the waters of life via licking young pussies in large quantities, isn't it possible one could start to dream of young men that one can fuck in the ass too? I find that with advanced age, one really has to consider that the ancient greeks and romans were wise men! Big Grin![/QUOTE]Looks like you are a gay! Wrong place to post your comments at here. LOL.
[quote=dufey; 1351853]hi speedymike,
thank you for your comments.
i take it that you do not wish to share your experience of trying to hook a relationship with an oase girl?[/quote]i can share my experience with you, but to do that we would have to meet in a club one day, and not on an open forum.
[quote=dufey;1351853]i doubt it is the same girl. there are so many girls and our tastes differ so it us unlikely to be the same girl. i do not know who your girl is to say.[/quote]there is always a chance it could be the same girl, many of the things you say she says is the same things, but then again many of them also says that they need money for the dog, mom, dad, house, car and so on.
maybe it is some of the first things they learn to say on the wg school.
[quote=dufey;1351853]well our ages are 14 years apart, but i think she is on the side of knowing where she is going. she has a generic 2 year plan and that includes taking up another profession that i understand well since i do it too. she is not a teenager.[/quote]they all have a plan when they start doing this job, the problem is just that, the longer they stay in it, the harder it is to stop becours they get use to all the money and the sweet life that comes with it.
[quote=dufey;1351853]i know what you are saying about the giving of free time to keep th client sweet and play acting for all those hours when we were outside the club. these outings were not a couple of hours. they were all day here and overnight.[/quote]and those days / nights where all with out any money and any shoping trips?
[quote=dufey;1351853]regarding the point about how would i feel when she says to me i have to go to work and fuck 10-15 guys. i have not reached that stage. i already in some way experience it now when i am in the club with her as i relax between sessions i see her going off with other men and coming back, hugging or kissing them.[/quote]to see her in the club when she goes to a room with some guy for 30 min or 1, 2 or hours, is the easy part.
what i mean you should try to picture is sitting with her at home when she gets a phone call and go to sleep in some other mans home in he's bed and arms, or stay a hole weekend there. try to picture that and tell me what kind of thinking there goes on in your heard.
[QUOTE=Meeps77; 1352204]I sincerely wish you luck, just be careful. Weve all been burned by a girl at one time (like my cheating x girlfriend!) and it really sucks.
In finance we refer to the concept of "sunk cost" when evaluating whether or not to proceed with continuing investment in a project. The mentality is often "we have spent X million dollars which will be wasted if we cut the program." Finance theory says the x million (or 2. 5 months) is sunk and cannot be recovered; therefore it should be ignored when making decisions on future investments. If new information suggests FUTURE forecasts to be poor, then continuing the project will be chasing good money (or time) after bad. I'm not saying you have this bad forecast already, but I'd be prepared to cut bait if some of these points other have made become apparent. If you rationalize all her behavior to fit your theory (as someone else suggested) you'll keep chasing time and money into this; with a net increase in your EMOTIONAL investment which is worse to lose than money sometimes[/QUOTE]This is very true.
[QUOTE=Meeps77; 1352204]I sincerely wish you luck, just be careful. Weve all been burned by a girl at one time (like my cheating x girlfriend!) and it really sucks.
In finance we refer to the concept of "sunk cost" when evaluating whether or not to proceed with continuing investment in a project. The mentality is often "we have spent X million dollars which will be wasted if we cut the program." Finance theory says the x million (or 2. 5 months) is sunk and cannot be recovered; therefore it should be ignored when making decisions on future investments. If new information suggests FUTURE forecasts to be poor, then continuing the project will be chasing good money (or time) after bad. I'm not saying you have this bad forecast already, but I'd be prepared to cut bait if some of these points other have made become apparent. If you rationalize all her behavior to fit your theory (as someone else suggested) you'll keep chasing time and money into this; with a net increase in your EMOTIONAL investment which is worse to lose than money sometimes[/QUOTE]I thank you for your well wishes. I am grateful.
I know I have been cheated by girls before and it has cost in terms of emotions and in terms of monetary value. So I have been there before. I feel your pain too.
My 12th visit with my club girl did not happen since she was unwell. She has kept intermittent contact since then by email though and says she is happy to see me when she is back. She also says thank you to me for staying with her. We shall see what happens.
I understand you regarding your sunk cost concept from finance.
I am spending both money and time into this girl. If nothing concrete is generated then why expend that money and time in "investing" in this girl to see if she becomes interested. She has already said she is not interested in a relationship but then says she does not want me to go away either, but for me to stay as a "friend" who comes to see her in the club and fuck her for money. Which is the same as saying she is creating a regular customer. Maybe she is playing me for a fool. And this is where all the doubt is coming from. The contact we have by email and so forth showing her interest but then the distance she keeps with acting like a normal relationship. Also the loud and clear message that the boyfriend situation is off the cards but we will see where there is a slight sliver of hope that she dangles in front of me. I think I would rather prefer she say to me what she says she tells other customers that have come onto her and say she has a boyfriend and that she will only see them in the club. When I think about it she has done the same for me in effect.
So going back to the sunk cost concept. There will be a stage when I have sunk so much money and time trying to see if something develops and then I tire and lose interest and decide to write off that money and time and go off to do something else. I think I may be angry but probably more angry with myself for letting me do this. My only consolation is to spend no more than I would in the clubs anyway on her so it does not feel like I try to buy her.
This adventure and it is an adventure will take some time. I have now come up to 3 months now so maybe another 3-4 months.
Right now I am unsure I have the patience to last the distance. But I found I really like this girl.
[QUOTE=Indi Companion;1352277]Right and realistic words Meeps77, we should all keep them in mind. I am in a very similar situation as Dufey describes and I am trying my best for realistically face this situation. In other words, I try to plan for the best preparing for the worst but it is very hard sometimes. I know inside myself that if and when the s* will hit the fan it will be very hard for me.[/QUOTE]I know where you are coming from.
I am keeping Meeps77's words in mind but I know I need to make that investment to see what may come from this. I know the odds are against me especially as she has said she is not interested in a boyfriend but then I have no idea why she sits with me for social time and also plans doing things outside the club as friends (no fucking but kissing okay). Only one of these dates has happened which is the one date I referenced earlier. Another date is in the diary. We will see if it happens.
The biggest problem is containing myself to stay the course rather than give up before I get the negative or positive. I know some of you reading this will say you have the clear negative already with her saying she is not interested in a relationship and I am just being bovine. I am probably wasting my money and time here. Just right now, and this is probably what Nick the G is saying and Optimist is saying about trying not to read too much into it.
Problem is I cannot make myself do I.
This means I will keep doing it and then I realise it is all wrong and then I fall really hard as you say Indi Companion. This is my fear.
[QUOTE=Optimist;1352292]Dufey. Just wanted to wish you good luck. One small optimistic point - I can see no reason why a girl from a club should not be as good as any "normal" girl. In fact their experience, if they have handled it right, should be an asset[/QUOTE]Thank you for your well wishes. They are welcome.
I also think the same way as you. A club girl is in the end still a girl and will have needs and aspirations like anyone else. Her club experience as you say is the bonus. This girl for me hits so many of my buttons in the room and when we are together that I really want to give it a try to see if I can turn her around. She says she will let the fates decide if she hooks up with me but for now she says she wants to get to know me as a friend first but that means seeing her in the club which I know is business and trying to see her more outside the club when she does not have her business mindset on. Then I am doomed if I can only see her in the club.
I can see myself becoming an urban legend of a sad man going the club chasing a girl and spending all my money on them. I do not want that and this is why I am afraid of what I am letting myself get into. I just have to make sure I do not spend no more than I would on a normal club visit for me.
[quote=speedymike; 1352870]i can share my experience with you, but to do that we would have to meet in a club one day, and not on an open forum.
there is always a chance it could be the same girl, many of the things you say she says is the same things, but then again many of them also says that they need money for the dog, mom, dad, house, car and so on.
maybe it is some of the first things they learn to say on the wg school.
they all have a plan when they start doing this job, the problem is just that, the longer they stay in it, the harder it is to stop becours they get use to all the money and the sweet life that comes with it.
and those days / nights where all with out any money and any shoping trips?
to see her in the club when she goes to a room with some guy for 30 min or 1, 2 or hours, is the easy part.
what i mean you should try to picture is sitting with her at home when she gets a phone call and go to sleep in some other mans home in he's bed and arms, or stay a hole weekend there. try to picture that and tell me what kind of thinking there goes on in your heard.[/quote]i do not mind meeting you in a club to swap notes. that would be good. thank you for the offer. when are you around and what place? i am mobile so i can get to most places?
i think what i am doing seems to common. the responses i am getting on this thread seem to have bought out some others with similar experiences so if you are seeing a pattern close to yours then do not feel alone and do not think its the same girl. my girl seems to want this money for her future including a home purchase.
it is a common saying for the girls to say why they do this job. i mean why else do they do it for if it was not for some financial goal which can be achieved in a far quicker time than working at a normal job. so maybe they did learn this in wg school when the experienced girls tell the new girls what to say to the men.
yes, the easy money is the lure. why work at a low paying job in a menial job earning in a month what they can earn in a day working in a club? they like the things that the money can buy.
i have only had 2 days that were paid and the rate was good for what i got. i only paid her what i agreed to pay her and she let me choose the rate as she was actually loathe to ask for a rate. she said she had never seen anyone outside the club before me as an escort. on the third "date" outside the club was for free. no shopping trips. we hung out as two normal people would but the nice thing was lying in bed together and kissing. in fact we have never been to any shops except for resturants for meals and once again modest ones. she even refused a present i bought her since she felt it was too much from a friend. i took it back to the shop for a refund. i am looking forward to the next "date" i have with her but as i said before my time is tight with season we have now and so is her time with her homelife from what she says so i am thinking we may hit an enforced hiatus as christmas comes. i tend to think these homelife things are real since her club girl friends confirm them when i have conversations with them. like i said, her club girlfriends seem to know my girl has a thing for me. i think. if not then it is one big cover up and a great deal of collusion for what i have spent.
from what i know she only ever works in the club and she says that i was her only customer she has seen outside the club but then like you i am skeptical of that claim given some things i heard. regardless, i do not think she will be getting phone calls to go sleep with men in hotels or in their homes if she keeps to her pattern of working in the club. i mean it is her job and this is how i met her so i have to accept that is what she wants to do. i have thought through that situation already. i do not like it but i have to accept it. let say it does work out. if she is staying with me for no money but is paid to go with other men then she is differentiating me in her own way.
[QUOTE=Dufey;1354559]She says she will let the fates decide if she hooks up with me but for now she says she wants to get to know me as a friend first but that means seeing her in the club which I know is business and trying to see her more outside the club when she does not have her business mindset on. Then I am doomed if I can only see her in the club.[/QUOTE]He says he will let the fates decide if he hooks up with me but for now he says he wants to get to know me as a friend first but that means seeing me outside the club which I know will not be business. And trying to see me more outside the club when he does not have his guaranteed-sex-for-money mindset on.
Let fate decide: the best way to avoid decisions and to avoid responsibility for ones life. But it sounds so overwhelmingly good!
[QUOTE=Dufey;1354554]She has already said she is not interested in a relationship but then says she does not want me to go away either, but for me to stay as a "friend" who comes to see her in the club and fuck her for money. Which is the same as saying she is creating a regular customer.[/QUOTE]It sounds to me like you already know everything there is to know. If you want to risk heartbreak, then risk it with someone who may want more than friendship and doesn't expect to be paid. This isn't rocket science.
[QUOTE=Dufey;1354554]My 12th visit with my club girl did not happen since she was unwell. She has kept intermittent contact since then by email though and says she is happy to see me when she is back. She also says thank you to me for staying with her. We shall see what happens.[/QUOTE]Sorry to hear that she got unwell. You should have meet her on Thursday or Friday last week?
[QUOTE=Dufey;1354554]I am spending both money and time into this girl. If nothing concrete is generated then why expend that money and time in "investing" in this girl to see if she becomes interested. She has already said she is not interested in a relationship but then says she does not want me to go away either, but for me to stay as a "friend" who comes to see her in the club and fuck her for money. Which is the same as saying she is creating a regular customer. Maybe she is playing me for a fool. And this is where all the doubt is coming from. The contact we have by email and so forth showing her interest but then the distance she keeps with acting like a normal relationship. Also the loud and clear message that the boyfriend situation is off the cards but we will see where there is a slight sliver of hope that she dangles in front of me. I think I would rather prefer she say to me what she says she tells other customers that have come onto her and say she has a boyfriend and that she will only see them in the club. When I think about it she has done the same for me in effect.[/QUOTE]A "friend" that comes in the club and fuck her for money. Hmmm how dos that sound to you?
You should not see her at her work, that is not a place for you to be if she want something serius with you.
[QUOTE=Dufey;1354554]So going back to the sunk cost concept. There will be a stage when I have sunk so much money and time trying to see if something develops and then I tire and lose interest and decide to write off that money and time and go off to do something else. I think I may be angry but probably more angry with myself for letting me do this. My only consolation is to spend no more than I would in the clubs anyway on her so it does not feel like I try to buy her.[/QUOTE]Fuck the money, it is just money and you can always make some new ones, it is your time and emotional investment that means something.
[QUOTE=Dufey; 1354554]This adventure and it is an adventure will take some time. I have now come up to 3 months now so maybe another 3-4 months.
Right now I am unsure I have the patience to last the distance. But I found I really like this girl.[/QUOTE]You can not make her feel something for you no matter how long time you are going to use on her, and she can not make her hart feel something for you, if it is there then it is there.
After 3 months she will already know what she feels, just take a look at you self and see how fast you knew it.
There is just one thing we should keep in mind. A WG deals with cheating husbands and boyfriends every day, and they get so many promise from guys where 90% of them don't come true.
So they have a very low trust on guys, and the same it is with guys and the trust in the WG. How can you trust a girl that can say anything to a guy he want to hear as long as he has some euros in he's hands.
But then again. If you are afraid of love you are afraid of life and that means that you are already half dead.
[QUOTE=Nick The G; 1354873]He says he will let the fates decide if he hooks up with me but for now he says he wants to get to know me as a friend first but that means seeing me outside the club which I know will not be business. And trying to see me more outside the club when he does not have his guaranteed-sex-for-money mindset on.
Let fate decide: the best way to avoid decisions and to avoid responsibility for ones life. But it sounds so overwhelmingly good![/QUOTE]Sometimes it can be very hard to make a move or decision when you have feelings for a girl who is not giving clear signals in any direction. You get confused and you have simply two options (I) run away, forget the girl and go to other clubs for a while, which is the hardest decision to be made or (ii) you go with the flow, take care of your finances and see if from a confused situation in a little while comes out something that can clarify where you both stay.
Second option is much easier but then, once you do not get ripped off, you simply spend time with one girl you like instead with many girls. I can understand what Dufey says and how he is feeling, I already passed it and I am maybe getting to it again very soon with one of my favorite girls!
I fortunately don't have any issues since I'm still fairly young. But when I go on fkk trips I like to partake as much as possible. This normally starts off in the 5-8 sessions / day range in each of the first two days, then drops to 3-5 in the next two and down from there. Often by the 4th or 5th day I'm exhausted, but since I'm never exactly sure when I'll be back in make the most out of it. If I lived in Germany this wouldn't be an issue, but for now that's not the case.
My question is this. Have any of you used Viagra recreationally (with no ED)? What are the benefits / issues you've experienced?
M
[QUOTE=Meeps77; 1355368].
My question is this. Have any of you used Viagra recreationally (with no ED)? What are the benefits / issues you've experienced?[/QUOTE]Viagra works by controlling the blood flow that makes the penis erect. It does not increase desire or stimulation, although the availability of a strong erection "on demand" may contribute to the kind of confidence that makes for good sex. It's widely used recreationally and works well.
But for weekend hobbying you might want to try Cialis. Viagra has a short half life and you may have to time when you take it. 6 hours later you may need to redose. Cialis is effective for 36 to 48 hours, even longer for some. Take one Friday afternoon and you are good to go through Saturday night.
[QUOTE=Dufey; 1354559]Thank you for your well wishes. They are welcome.
I also think the same way as you. A club girl is in the end still a girl and will have needs and aspirations like anyone else. Her club experience as you say is the bonus. This girl for me hits so many of my buttons in the room and when we are together that I really want to give it a try to see if I can turn her around. She says she will let the fates decide if she hooks up with me but for now she says she wants to get to know me as a friend first but that means seeing her in the club which I know is business and trying to see her more outside the club when she does not have her business mindset on. Then I am doomed if I can only see her in the club.
I can see myself becoming an urban legend of a sad man going the club chasing a girl and spending all my money on them. I do not want that and this is why I am afraid of what I am letting myself get into. I just have to make sure I do not spend no more than I would on a normal club visit for me.[/QUOTE]Dufey,
Girls that work FKK are better off with no boyfriend, however sometimes they suffer from the lack of having a guy in a warm and loving relationship, and want someone there who really cares. However sex can be a thing that doesn't ineterest them much, getting far too much of that, unless you are able to make her enjoy it much more than normal.
However, the girl needs to be spending time with you for free. I have experienced that, and I was required to stop seeing any other girls at the FKK. Actually I was the girl's 2nd BF as she claimed her primary BF was not warm and loving and did not fuck her (she eventually left him completely and left the FKK). Also she needs to be providing adequate levels of sex, and be wanting it. No guy wants a platonic relationship with a girl who fucks lots of others, unless she like a sister to you. If she is trying to test you out to see if you like her on days with no sex, its a dangerous game, but okay if you are enjoying the time and not paying her for it.
In the end, she needs to be a girl that is causing you to save significant money over what you would have spent in the FKK, and also for you to be having a good time so that you feel your time is not wasted, whether the realtionship has a long term future or not.
Really when you say she doesn't want a boyfriend but are lying in bed kissing etc, this obviously means a casual relationship with no strings and with the concept that should not be jealous of what she does with other guys.