American Politics

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2782614]If we're talking anecdotal evidence, Trump's "credits" didn't help me. I (small business owner) paid more taxes next year. My tax advisor said the same thing.[/QUOTE]Count yourself lucky. The Republicans' GILTI tax, passed with the 2017 TCJA, fucked me over big time. I own a small business too, held in a foreign company. If you're an individual owner of a foreign company, like I am, you pay much higher taxes than American multinational corporations. After paying a 30% foreign income tax, a 37% GILTI tax, and, if I want to take any money out of the business, a 40.8% tax on dividends, I'm left with 19.5% of earnings before tax. (A USA Corporation with a foreign subsidiary would pay a much lower rate than my 80.5% rate, I think around 30%.) We're not making much money right now, but if this changes I'll have to jump through hoops to restructure the business or get rid of my USA Passport.

Still, while they should change the rules so they don't fuck people like me, overall the changes in corporate taxation were very beneficial to our economy, for reasons I've already explained.

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2782614]Was there some "godness" in it? Probably. Only the whole bonanza was skewed in favor of 1% even if a tiny portion of tax cuts trickled down. You do know that.

That's a smart-ass number constructed by the Heritage Foundation. The 38% refers to the federal personal income tax and doesn't take into account the corporate tax (mostly) and state and local taxes, which are not nearly as progressive as the federal income tax. This is a reasonable take, IMHO on the "outrageous" 38%.

[URL]https://forbes.com/sites/joshbarro/2012/01/30/do-one-percent-of-americans-pay-38-percent-of-taxes/?sh=75bcf12c1121[/URL][/QUOTE]I reject your unfounded belief that "only a tiny portion of the tax cuts trickled down. " I've pointed out the tangible benefits to workers of the corporate tax cuts and you guys just pooh pooh me. Your Forbes article quotes an economist who believes most of the burden of the corporate tax falls primarily on labor. And it's not just labor that benefits from lower corporate tax rates. Consumers benefit too. Higher corporate taxes are largely just passed on to consumers.

Again, I don't think the Republicans should have created the Qualified Business Income tax deduction. And I believe the cuts in the marginal income tax rates were a sideshow. They were negligible for people making from $200,000 to $425,000 per year, and only cut the rate from 43.4% to 40.8% for people making more.

But, as to your criticism of my number, look at IRS tax statistics.

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/19in11si.xls

I pulled the 2019 data as 2020 is obscured by COVID. So I don't have to interpolate, I'll quote number for the top 1.09%, those taxpayers who had over $500,000 income. They represented 1.09% of the total number of returns filed. Those taxpayers paid $614 billion out of the total 1.553 trillion tax paid. That's 39.5%.

You quoted an article that said 50% of the benefits from the income tax cuts went to people who make $200,000 or more. I'm not sure that's true, but in 2019, 62.5% of income tax was paid by taxpayers who made more than $200,000 per year. That would indicate the TCJA made the tax system MORE progressive.

I said "income tax. " I did not say "tax " However, the USA Tax system, including sales taxes, VAT's, the employee's share of social security and Medicare, state income taxes, etc. , is almost certainly the most progressive in the developed world. See comments of Peter Whiteford, the OECD economist, who did the seminal work on comparative progressivity of OECD countries, here.

[URL]http://gregmankiw.********.com/2011/03/what-nation-has-most-progressive-tax.html[/URL]

You'll need to replace the *'s in the above link with b l o g s p o t. (I hope I'm not violating forum rules here -- Greg Mankiw's blog is definitely not an ISG competitor.)

What's going on? At the top end in the USA, you have people paying marginal income tax rates at 40.8% to 54.1% depending on which states they live in, not that much different from European welfare states. (You can make the argument the tax rate on capital gains and qualified dividends is lower, but that's true in Europe too.) The middle class and the poor pay at much lower income tax rates. Yes, regressive sales taxes make the system less progressive. But we don't have a huge value added tax, like Europeans, which is highly regressive. Thus, overall, our system is more progressive than any country's in Europe.

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2782614]Another one:

[URL]https://news.bloombergtax.com/daily-tax-report/how-four-decades-of-tax-cuts-fueled-inequality-james-b-steele[/URL][/QUOTE]This guy Steele doesn't know his head from a hole in the ground. When the tax rate was 70%, potentially higher income earners just made sure they didn't generate taxable income. Lots of money flowed to oil and gas well drilling and real estate and feedlots. All this resulted in inefficiencies in the economy. A friend of mine who has studied this says taxes paid by the wealthy increased after Reagan and Tip O'Neill and other Republicans and Democrats dropped taxes in the 1980's, because the wealthy started generating taxable income.

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2782614]And these 40% who don't pay taxes? It's a sad number. A married couple needs to make less than 26 K to not owe federal taxes. Who the fuck can live on 26 K in America?

....Congress Dems are millionaires too, so I have no idea if they're really putting their hearts into it, LOL.[/QUOTE]Hey, I agree with you. Like I've said before, the Democratic Party needs to start trying to improve the lot of the poor instead of dragging down the rich, or as you say, claiming to drag down the rich. More help for truly needy people, especially children, makes sense. So does improving education instead of kowtowing to teachers' unions. Higher minimum wages, preferably set at the local level, would help. And higher employer, and employee contributions to pay for retirement and medical care would make sense.

And yeah, Democrats aren't going to get much help on some of this from Republicans.

The percentage of households that don't pay tax may actually be higher than 40% from what I'm reading. There's a CNBC article out quoting the Tax Policy Center, which I believe has a left of center bias, saying 57% of households paid no tax in 2021, up from 44% before the pandemic.

Your number, 26 K, isn't representative though. Remember that Donald Trump apparently has paid $750 or less in federal income tax in a number of years. See the graph here. Statista says 47.1% of households with an income between $40,000 and $50,000 paid no individual income taxes in 2022. Eyeballing their graph, about 35% making 50,000 to 75,000 didn't pay federal income tax:

[URL]https://www.statista.com/statistics/242138/percentages-of-us-households-that-pay-no-income-tax-by-income-level/[/URL]

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2782614]Trump promised the companies would repatriate $4 billions. In reality, they brought back a little more than $1 billion. And how did they bring it in?[/QUOTE]Are you going to believe any self serving promise made by the Donald?

Your quote also addressed buybacks. I haven't studied this, like I have some of the other points you brought up. But this is the first article I bring up in a Google search.

[URL]https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2019-12-19/companies-repatriate-1-trillion-since-tax-overhaul[/URL]

The article says "Investment banks and think tanks have estimated that USA Corporations held $1. 5 trillion to $2. 5 trillion in offshore cash at the time the law was enacted. ".

This article came out in December, 2019. The TCJA took effect January 1, 2018. So, my guess would be that about 1. 75 years after the implementation of the Act, already $1 trillion had come back. Given the $1.5 to $2.5 trillion estimate, that's a lot. Companies need to leave some cash overseas to run their foreign operations and expand their business.

Anyway, in addition to the $1 trillion, more money came back in the remainder of 2019 and in 2020 and future years. I brought back money as a result of this legislation (remember my foreign small business, which used to make money but isn't now), and can definitively tell you it wasn't a one time deal. You can bring back the money whenever you want. Furthermore, future earnings and profits, realized in future years, can be brought back with no additional tax. Formerly corporations had to pay a 35% tax on money they brought back to the USA. Now, by virtue of having already paid the GILTI tax, they don't have to pay anything when they bring profits back to the USA.

As to the buybacks, so what. If the corporation takes money it brought back from overseas, and uses it to buy back its shares, then the institutions and people who sold the shares will reinvest the sales proceeds mostly in America. That makes the economy more efficient. If a company doesn't have any opportunities that are better than share buy backs, then its great to get the money in the hands of people who will utilize it in growing the economy and jobs, instead of letting it sit in a foreign bank account.

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2782614]The Dems are not blameless. They're just better than the alternative.[/QUOTE]This isn't the Democratic Party of Bill Clinton. The party is increasingly dominated by Progressives with no common sense about business. As such I disagree.

[QUOTE=Tiny12;2782571]I've only posted on this once and you agreed with me, although you questioned the importance of the issue. And I in fact said it was more the parent's fault than the fault of Democratic politicians, as Chris was hypothesizing:

[URL]http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?2467-American-Politics&p=2780797&viewfull=1#post2780797[/URL]
[URL]http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?2467-American-Politics&p=2780829&viewfull=1#post2780829[/URL]
[URL]http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?2467-American-Politics&p=2780959&viewfull=1#post2780959[/URL]

I suspect we may be tangling with a topic that we shouldn't be debating here so I won't get too specific. But yeah, things happen on the right and the left, absolutely. I suspect we may be tangling with a topic that we shouldn't be debating here so I won't get too specific
You're avoiding the real issue though, which is your problem with drag queens. (just kidding).[/QUOTE]"I suspect we may be tangling with a topic that we shouldn't be debating here so I won't get too specific".

Do you think discussing this issue is verboten for some odd reason?

"But yeah, things happen on the right and the left, absolutely".

Well, I'm willing to wager a huge sum.

Men raping little boys is happening at an exponentially higher rate on the left then on the right, like 1000 x or 10000 x the rate.

[QUOTE=Tiny 12;2782571]I've only posted on this once and you agreed with me, although you questioned the importance of the issue. And I in fact said it was more the parent's fault than the fault of Democratic politicians, as Chris was hypothesizing:

[URL]http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?2467-American-Politics&p=2780797&viewfull=1#post2780797[/URL]
[URL]http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?2467-American-Politics&p=2780829&viewfull=1#post2780829[/URL]
[URL]http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?2467-American-Politics&p=2780959&viewfull=1#post2780959[/URL]

I suspect we may be tangling with a topic that we shouldn't be debating here so I won't get too specific. But yeah, things happen on the right and the left, absolutely. I don't think for example that Democrats or Republicans are more disposed to be sexual predators. [/QUOTE]

Ahh...Nope, I wasn't agreeing with your bias statement! I simply pointed out, that gay-life happens on both the left and right (be it parents or politicians), whereas you and your comrades seem to think, it only happens on the left.

Enter stage-left, [b]as "Exhibit A"[/b], the lying sack of fraud, that is Republican drag queen, George Santos.

[QUOTE=Tiny 12;2782571]You're avoiding the real issue though, which is your problem with drag queens. (just kidding). [/QUOTE]

Once again...nope! Kidding or not, my issue, is with the Repub lying sack of fraud, that is George Santos. The fact that the dude happens to also like to dress in drag, is just bat-shit fodder for the taking, as it plays out in the days to come.

Meanwhile the conspiracy QAnon\Repubs loons, try to justify their war on "Drag Queen Story hour", all while trying to square the fact, they have a enemy combatant [b]"Brazilian drag queen"[/b] in their rank-and-file.

[URL]https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/bidens-documents-scandal-now-dcs-hottest-guessing-game-whos-sabotaging-president[/URL]

So no 2nd stolen term for Jagoff Joe and the Junkie?

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2781885]That's right, nothing to do with Hunter. Nothing at all.

If you have a proof or single shred of evidence that Joe Biden has benefited from anything Hunter allegedly did, bring it up.

Other than that, it doesn't matter how Biden got his money. He could be panhandling on 5th Ave for what I care, as long as he didn't try and generate his wealth while serving the American people.

Unlike Don the Con, who tried in gusto.

I read the article carefully. Provided it's not complete and utter BS, nothing in it suggests that Joe Biden received or was going to receive a kick back from the Chinese. Nothing at all.

Holding "10 for a big guy" can mean literally anything. Most likely, the scheme participants were about to help themselves with that "10".[/QUOTE]The Trump Derangement Syndrome is strong in this one.

You literally have videotape of Biden as VP, boasting about how he threatened to withhold a billion dollar loan from the US to Ukraine if they didn't fire the prosecutor who was investigating his corrupt son. Within a couple of hours, the prosecutor was gone.

That is open and clear corruption. The fact that he has not been indicted for it shows the level to which the DoJ is now a part of the corrupt globalist swamp.

We all know that if the same footage existed involving President Trump withholding US taxpayer money to force a foreign country to stop investigating one of his sons, it would be all over the fake news media every day and Merrick Garland, Adam Schiff or whichever Washington Jew is currently pulling the strings would have filed charges.

Just like Trump (or any non-RINO republican) would have been indicted for what Crooked Hillary did with her emails. An open and shut case, and she skated because. ? Because she is part of the Globohomo deep state establishment.

Claiming Hunter's corruption is nothing to do with Joe is moronic and ludicrous on its face. Hunter is a druggie dropout imbecile with no discernible skills or talents. Yet he was given high-paying no-work jobs on all kinds of Ukrainian and Chinese companies. Why? For access to his VP father, who altered US policy to fit his son / bagman's interests.

Finally, your foolish comment about Trump not starting any wars makes no sense, even by your own low standards of logic.

Putin took Crimea when Obama was president. For four years, Trump had him under control (as well as Kim Jong-un and the Chinese). Not a peep out of any of them.

Then as soon as Sleepy Joe is fraudulently installed and America is shamefully driven out of Afghanistan by the Taliban, Putin correctly senses weakness and invades Ukraine. Meanwhile Kim restarts his nuke tests, China starts threatening Taiwan, and the Saudis abandon the petrodollar (big news). Well done, Sleepy Joe!

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2781898]And to this day, you see douches like PVM and Tooms swearing that all these deaths are on Trump, and China is blameless. It is disgusting, and it makes me wonder what are guys like this getting paid to be so blind to the truth.[/QUOTE]In the future, the mental illness known as Trump Derangement Syndrome will be studied intensely.

It allowed dem douches to claim that Trump was responsible for the virus reaching America despite the fact that he banned Chinese from coming to America from China in January 2020, while his democrat opponents were calling him "racist", hugging Chinamen in the streets, and demanding all travel restrictions be lifted.

Clearly, with the full flight schedule that the democrats wanted, the virus would have spread far more quickly in the USA, resulting in more deaths. That is simple, obvious logic. Yet their TDS-addled brains refuse to accept it.

It is a deep-seated psychiatric phenomenon, similar to the Dancing Plague of 1518.

[QUOTE=MarquisdeSade1;2782896] ... Well, I'm willing to wager a huge sum.

Men raping little boys is happening at an exponentially higher rate on the left then on the right, like 1000 x or 10000 x the rate.[/QUOTE]
Crass and indelicate as always!!! Dude, not exactly the kind of betting you want to be associated with, [b]or maybe you do?[/b] (...kkkk).

But by all means, you do you. However I will refute your claims.

Well, since most Repubs are just such exemplary, pious, devout and righteous "Christians", and we all know the evidence bares it out, that these kind of vile assaults (as you've stated) mostly happens in the realms and hallowed halls of Church, one can only surmise the following.

These heinous acts, typically carried out in a act of betrayal of trust, from your so called arbiters of holiness, typically in the form clergymen, pastors, bishops, cardinals or even arch-cardinals at the top.

So it isn't hard to imagine that, not only are such unholy practices, carried out on the proverbial "choirboys/girls" and "alter-boys/girls", but no doubt, also on the general Sunday-school Bible class congregation as well. [i]And who attends these Sunday-school Bible classes you ask? [/i] Why the righteous QAnon/Repubs of course.

I'm sure you can figure out the rest on your own, w/r to the unnatural completion of the circle-of-abuse and sexual misconduct, from the pious and [b]"righteous-right"[/b], given the worldwide reach of the institution and front for [b]"right[/b]eous" sexual-deviants, known as the church and its [b]"right[/b]eous" minions.

Therefore definitely more like, 1K x 100K the rate, [u]on the RIGHT[/u] more than on the left, given the influence of the church.

BTW, perhaps I'm [b]just kidding[/b]...or I'm I? After all, you provide no evidence to backup your baseless right-wing claims.

[b]PS: [/b]Is it any wonder Rep. Lauren Boebert Calls Separation of Church and State [b]'Junk'[/b] (Talk about doing the church's biding, or should I say pre-grooming? ...kkkk!)

[URL]https://people.com/politics/rep-lauren-boebert-denounces-separation-of-church-state/ [/URL]

[QUOTE=Spidy;2783173]Crass and indelicate as always!!! Dude, not exactly the kind of betting you want to be associated with, [b]or maybe you do?[/b] (...kkkk).

But by all means, you do you. However I will refute your claims.

Well, since most Repubs are just such exemplary, pious, devout and righteous "Christians", and we all know the evidence bares it out, that these kind of vile assaults (as you've stated) mostly happens in the realms and hallowed halls of Church, one can only surmise the following.

These heinous acts, typically carried out in a act of betrayal of trust, from your so called arbiters of holiness, typically in the form clergymen, pastors, bishops, cardinals or even arch-cardinals at the top.

So it isn't hard to imagine that, not only are such unholy practices, carried out on the proverbial "choirboys/girls" and "alter-boys/girls", but no doubt, also on the general Sunday-school Bible class congregation as well. [i]And who attends these Sunday-school Bible classes you ask? [/i] Why the righteous QAnon/Repubs of course.

I'm sure you can figure out the rest on your own, w/r to the unnatural completion of the circle-of-abuse and sexual misconduct, from the pious and [b]"righteous-right"[/b], given the worldwide reach of the institution and front for [b]"right[/b]eous" sexual-deviants, known as the church and its [b]"right[/b]eous" minions.

Therefore definitely more like, 1K x 100K the rate, [u]on the RIGHT[/u] more than on the left, given the influence of the church.

BTW, perhaps I'm [b]just kidding[/b]...or I'm I? After all, you provide no evidence to backup your baseless right-wing claims.

[b]PS: [/b]Is it any wonder Rep. Lauren Boebert Calls Separation of Church and State [b]'Junk'[/b] (Talk about doing the church's biding, or should I say pre-grooming? ...kkkk!)

[URL]https://people.com/politics/rep-lauren-boebert-denounces-separation-of-church-state/ [/URL][/QUOTE]One thing is certain with the person who posted the original and other members of the Moron Brigade. None of their posts ever contain real sources, just wild conjectures as you have so smartly pointed out.

Just like the "government documents" flap. The Moron Brigade tried to defend Donnie the Dumbass with all sorts of spurious arguments. And when less than 10% of the number of Donnie the Dumbass' documents turned up at President Biden's former offices and his home, they all started crowing. Again. Several morons on Yahoo even said that VPs weren't legally able to look at classified documents. Where they got [B]that drivel[/B] is anybody's guess but FUX Snooze seems to be the (il) logical source. Now that former VP Mike "Hang Mike Pence" Pence has found classified documents in [B]his[/B] possession, the Moron Brigade is strangely quiet. Or is it strange?

[QUOTE=MarquisdeSade1;2782982][URL]https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/bidens-documents-scandal-now-dcs-hottest-guessing-game-whos-sabotaging-president[/URL]

So no 2nd stolen term for Jagoff Joe and the Junkie?[/QUOTE]So who has the most to win? Kamala Harris? Pete Buttigieg? Nah. My money says it was a protege of Tooms' hero, Elizabeth Warren.

[B]‘Most influential voice’: Warren’s network spreads throughout Biden administration[/B]

[URL]https://www.politico.com/news/2021/03/15/elizabeth-warren-aides-biden-administration-475653[/URL]

She's thoroughly infiltrated the Biden Administration. And if she'll stab your man Bernie in the back, and she did, we damn well know she'll go after Biden. But Pocahontas wised up. That episode with Bernie didn't work out so well. So undoubtedly she's working in the shadows now.

If you think Biden is bad, just wait until we have a government run by Elizabeth Warren.

[QUOTE=ChrisP;2783114]It allowed dem (politicians) to claim that Trump was responsible for the virus reaching America despite the fact that he banned Chinese from coming to America from China in January 2020, while his democrat opponents were calling him "racist"[/QUOTE]Good point. Some of our friends here continually dance around that. Yeah, Trump made some fuck ups during COVID. But he also did some things right. That was one of them.

[QUOTE=ChrisP;2783114]In the future, the mental illness known as Trump Derangement Syndrome will be studied intensely.

It allowed dem douches to claim that Trump was responsible for the virus reaching America despite the fact that he banned Chinese from coming to America from China in January 2020, while his democrat opponents were calling him "racist", hugging Chinamen in the streets, and demanding all travel restrictions be lifted.

Clearly, with the full flight schedule that the democrats wanted, the virus would have spread far more quickly in the USA, resulting in more deaths. That is simple, obvious logic. Yet their TDS-addled brains refuse to accept it.

It is a deep-seated psychiatric phenomenon, similar to the Dancing Plague of 1518.[/QUOTE]Do you have any links for this mythical Trump ban on flights from China? And for his, what, 2020 Dem nominee opponents calling him "racist" for it?

My memory is Trump's claim to be banning flights from China, which he didn't do, and singling out "China" as the place where by then hundreds if not thousands of cases were already entering the USA from Europe by way of flights from China stopping over in Europe en route to the USA had a twinge of deflection to the racist "Yellow Menace" bit in order to draw attention away from how he himself was key to creating Trump's Pandemic when he allowed the Chinese to lie about the spread of the virus for critical weeks if not months thanks to him pulling out the monitors.

Maybe that is what his Dem opponents were talking about. I mean, aside from the fact that, fully checked, his main and justifiably most feared Dem opponent, did not call Trump "racist" for that:

[B]Speaking of his restriction on travel from China, I had (Joe) Biden calling me xenophobic. He called me a racist, because of the fact that he felt it was a racist thing to stop people from China coming in.
MOSTLY FALSE[/B]

[URL]https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/mar/27/donald-trump/fact-checking-whether-biden-called-trump-xenophobi/[/URL]

[B]430,000 People Have Traveled From China to U.S. Since Coronavirus Surfaced.
There were 1,300 direct flights to 17 cities before President Trumps travel restrictions. Since then, nearly 40,000 Americans and other authorized travelers have made the trip, some this past week and many with spotty screening.[/B]

[URL]https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/04/us/coronavirus-china-travel-restrictions.html[/URL]

[QUOTE]Since Chinese officials disclosed the outbreak of a mysterious pneumonialike illness to international health officials on New Years Eve, at least 430,000 people have arrived in the United States on direct flights from China, including nearly 40,000 in the two months after President Trump imposed restrictions on such travel, according to an analysis of data collected in both countries.

The bulk of the passengers, who were of multiple nationalities, arrived in January, at airports in Los Angeles, San Francisco, New York, Chicago, Seattle, Newark and Detroit. Thousands of them flew directly from Wuhan, the center of the coronavirus outbreak, as American public health officials were only beginning to assess the risks to the United States.

Flights continued this past week, the data show, with passengers traveling from Beijing to Los Angeles, San Francisco and New York, under rules that exempt Americans and some others from the clampdown that took effect on Feb. 2. In all, 279 flights from China have arrived in the United States since then, and screening procedures have been uneven, interviews show.

Mr. Trump has repeatedly suggested that his travel measures impeded the viruss spread in the United States. I do think we were very early, but I also think that we were very smart, because we stopped China, he said at a briefing on Tuesday, adding, That was probably the biggest decision we made so far. Last month, he said, Were the ones that kept China out of here.

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But the analysis of the flight and other data by The New York Times shows the travel measures, however effective, may have come too late to have kept China out, particularly in light of recent statements from health officials that as many as 25 percent of people infected with the virus may never show symptoms. Many infectious-disease experts suspect that the virus had been spreading undetected for weeks after the first American case was confirmed, in Washington State, on Jan. 20, and that it had continued to be introduced. In fact, no one knows when the virus first arrived in the United States.

During the first half of January, when Chinese officials were underplaying the severity of the outbreak, no travelers from China were screened for potential exposure to the virus. Health screening began in mid-January, but only for a number of travelers who had been in Wuhan and only at the airports in Los Angeles, San Francisco and New York. By that time, about 4,000 people had already entered the United States directly from Wuhan, according to VariFlight, an aviation data company based in China. The measures were expanded to all passengers from China two weeks later.

In a statement on Friday, Hogan Gidley, a White House spokesman, described Mr. Trumps travel restrictions as a bold decisive action which medical professionals say will prove to have saved countless lives. The policy took effect, he said, at a time when the global health community did not yet know the level of transmission or asymptomatic spread.

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Trump administration officials have also said they received significant pushback about imposing the restrictions even when they did. At the time, the World Health Organization was not recommending travel restrictions, Chinese officials rebuffed them and some scientists questioned whether curtailing travel would do any good. Some Democrats in Congress said they could lead to discrimination.

In interviews, multiple travelers who arrived after the screening was expanded said they received only passing scrutiny, with minimal follow-up.

I was surprised at how lax the whole process was, said Andrew Wu, 31, who landed at Los Angeles International Airport on a flight from Beijing on March 10. The guy I spoke to read down a list of questions, and he didnt seem interested in checking out anything.

Understand the Situation in China
The Chinese government cast aside its restrictive zero Covid policy, which had set off mass protests that were a rare challenge to Communist Party leadership.
Rapid Spread: Since China abandoned its strict Covid rules, the intensity and magnitude of the countrys outbreak has remained largely a mystery. But a picture is emerging of the virus spreading like wildfire.
A Tense Lunar New Year: For millions of holiday travelers, the joy of finally seeing far-flung loved ones without the risk of getting caught in a lockdown is laced with anxiety.
Digital Finger-Pointing: The Communist Partys efforts to limit discord over its sudden zero Covid pivot are being challenged with increasing rancor on the internet.
Economic Challenges: Years of Covid lockdowns took a brutal toll on Chinese businesses. Now, the rapid spread of the virus after a chaotic reopening has deprived them of workers and customers.
Sabrina Fitch, 23, flew from China to Kennedy International Airport in New York on March 23. She and the 40 or so other passengers had their temperature taken twice while en route and were required to fill out forms about their travels and health, she said.

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Besides looking at our passports, they didnt question us like we normally are questioned, said Ms. Fitch, who had been teaching English in China. So it was kind of weird, because everyone expected the opposite, where you get a lot of questions. But once we filled out the little health form, no one really cared.

In January, before the broad screening was in place, there were over 1,300 direct passenger flights from China to the United States, according to VariFlight and two American firms, MyRadar and FlightAware. About 381,000 travelers flew directly from China to the United States that month, about a quarter of whom were American, according to data from the Department of Commerces International Trade Administration.

In addition, untold others arrived from China on itineraries that first stopped in another country. While actual passenger counts for indirect fliers were not available, Sofia Boza-Holman, a spokeswoman for the Department of Homeland Security, said they represented about a quarter of travelers from China. The restrictions, she added, reduced all passengers from the country by about 99 percent.

Mr. Trump issued his first travel restrictions related to the virus on Jan. 31, one day after the World Health Organization declared the outbreak a global health emergency. In a presidential proclamation, he barred foreign nationals from entering the country if they had been in China during the prior two weeks. The order exempted American citizens, green-card holders and their noncitizen relatives exceptions roundly recognized as necessary to allow residents to return home and prevent families from being separated. It did not apply to flights from Hong Kong and Macau.

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About 60 percent of travelers on direct flights from China in February were not American citizens, according to the most recently available government data. Most of the flights were operated by Chinese airlines after American carriers halted theirs.

Image

President Trump with the health secretary, Alex M. Azar II, at a Covid-19 briefing last month.Credit...Al Drago for The New York Times.

At a news conference about the restrictions, Alex M. Azar II, the health secretary, repeatedly emphasized that the risk is low for Americans. He added, Our job is to work to keep that that way.

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Health officials also announced an expansion of the screening beyond arrivals from Wuhan. Dr. Robert R. Redfield, director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, explained that people would be screened for significant risk, as well as any evidence of symptoms. If there was no reason for additional examination, they would be allowed to complete their travel back to their home, where they then will be monitored by the local health departments in a self-monitoring situation in their home.

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The procedures called for screening to be conducted in empty sections of the airports, usually past customs areas. Passengers would line up and spend a minute or two having their temperature taken and being asked about their health and travel history. Those with a fever or self-reported symptoms like a cough would get a medical evaluation, and if they were thought to have been infected or exposed to the virus, they would be sent to a hospital where local health officials would take over.

Passengers would also be given information cards about the virus and symptoms. Later versions advised people to stay at home for two weeks.

In a statement on Thursday, the C.D.C. described the entry screening as part of a layered approach that could slow and reduce the spread of disease when used with other public health measures.

We cannot stop all introductions, the C.D.C. added, noting that the coronavirus pandemic was especially challenging due to asymptomatic and presymptomatic infections and an incubation period of up to two weeks.

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Separately, on Friday, the Department of Homeland Security said in a statement that the administrations measures were unprecedented and allowed the U.S. to stay ahead of the outbreak as it developed.

Passengers including Mr. Wu described a cursory screening process when they arrived in the United States.

Mr. Wu, who has had no symptoms and has not become ill, said he was told to stay inside for 14 days when he landed in Los Angeles. He said he received two reminder messages the next day by email and text, but no further follow-up.

Another traveler, Chandler Jurinka, said his experience on Feb. 29 had an even more haphazard feel. He flew from Beijing to Seattle, with stops in Tokyo and Vancouver.

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At the Seattle-Tacoma airport, he said, an immigration officer went through his documents and asked questions unrelated to the virus about his job and life in China. At no point did anyone take his temperature, he said.

He hands me my passport and forms and says, Oh, by the way, you havent been to Wuhan, have you? Mr. Jurinka said. And then he says, You dont have a fever, right?

Like others, he left the airport with a card that recommended two weeks of self-quarantine and a promise that someone would call to check up on him. He said he never got a call.

Other travelers also said the follow-up from local health departments was hit-or-miss. Some received only emails or texts.

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Jacinda Passmore, 23, a former English teacher in China who flew into Dallas on March 10, after a layover in Tokyo, got a thorough screening at the Dallas-Fort Worth airport. It took about 40 minutes, she said, before she was cleared for her flight home to Little Rock, Ark.

State health workers later dropped off thermometers at her house and insisted her entire family stay home for two weeks and provide updates on their condition.

They asked us every day: Have you stayed inside? Have you met anyone? Have you been quarantined? Ms. Passmore said. Theyre really nice about it. They said, If you need anything, we can go grocery-shopping for you.

Nineteen flights departed Wuhan in January for New York or San Francisco and the flights were largely full, according to VariFlight. For about 4,000 travelers, there was no enhanced screening.

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On Jan. 17, the federal government began screening travelers from Wuhan, but only 400 more passengers arrived on direct flights before Chinese authorities shut down the airport. Scott Liu, 56, a Wuhan native and a textile importer who lives in New York, caught the last commercial flight, on Jan. 22.

Mr. Liu had gone to Wuhan for the Spring Festival on Jan. 6, but decided to come back early as the outbreak worsened. At the Wuhan airport, staff checked his temperature. On the flight, he and other passengers filled a health declaration form, which included questions about symptoms like fever, cough or difficulty breathing.

After they arrived at J.F.K. in New York, the passengers were directed to go through a temperature checkpoint. It was very fast, he said. If your temperature is normal, they will just let you in.

Mr. Liu said no one asked him questions about his travel history or health, and he received a card with information about what to do if he developed symptoms. At the time, there were no instructions to isolate. Mr. Liu said he and his friends all decided to do so anyway.

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I stayed at home for almost 20 days, he said.

Image

A cargo plane charted by the U.S. State Department to evacuate Americans from Wuhan in February.Credit...Edward Wang/Via Reuters
About 800 passengers on five charter flights were later evacuated from Wuhan by the U.S. government and directed to military bases, where they waited out two weeks of quarantine.

The charter flights began on Jan. 29. Instagram posts from one showed C.D.C. officials in full protective gear on the plane and escorting passengers after landing.

One group of passengers was eventually flown to Omaha to be taken by bus to a National Guard camp for quarantine. Video showed them accompanied by a full police escort, with lights flashing, helicopters overhead and intersections blocked off along the way.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Tiny 12;2780982]This is actually a very effective strategy for the upcoming War of Secession from Progressive America. Child soldiers have shown themselves to be very effective in southern Sudan, Uganda, Liberia and Sierra Leone. They will be in the USA too. ...

P.S. This post is a joke...[/QUOTE]

Gunmaker at Vegas gun trade show, exhibits rebranded semi-automatic rifle for children inspired by the AR-15 machine gun, commonly used in U.S. mass shootings. What sick machination is this now, you ask?

[b]Weeks after 6-year-old shoots teacher, Vegas holds a gun show offering JR-15 rifles for kids[/b]
[URL]https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2023/1/17/2147712/-Weeks-after-6-year-old-shoots-teacher-Vegas-holds-a-gun-show-offering-JR-15-rifles-for-kids[/URL]

[b]AR-15 style rifle marketed for children showcased at Las Vegas gun convention: Despicable[/b]
[URL]https://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/new-york-elections-government/ny-rifle-ar-15-style-children-gun-show-las-vegas-20230118-7yuykl3rufguhlirrrtobmy2ka-story.html [/URL]

Hey Tiny 12, it would seem apparently, that your [b]American child soldiers[/b], aren't really a joke after all, but just [U][b]"good business"[/b][/u], especially to those right-wing gunmakers, lobbyists and MTG gun-toting QAnon/Repub/MAGA types on the right.

Yep, American children are now..."just good gun business!"

[QUOTE=ChrisP;2783114]In the future, the mental illness known as Trump Derangement Syndrome will be studied intensely.

It allowed dem douches to claim that Trump was responsible for the virus reaching America despite the fact that he banned Chinese from coming to America from China in January 2020, while his democrat opponents were calling him "racist", hugging Chinamen in the streets, and demanding all travel restrictions be lifted.

Clearly, with the full flight schedule that the democrats wanted, the virus would have spread far more quickly in the USA, resulting in more deaths. That is simple, obvious logic. Yet their TDS-addled brains refuse to accept it.

It is a deep-seated psychiatric phenomenon, similar to the Dancing Plague of 1518.[/QUOTE]Ahhh TDS Trump Devotion Syndrome clinical symptoms including:

Extreme feeble mindedness.

No capacity to reason or for critical thinking.

Easily conned to subscribing for recurring deductions from their bank account for the privilege of being a sucker.

Believing his lies over easily demonstrated truth.

Thinks they are patriots while supporting the destruction of the electoral process to install their Demigod as dictator for life.

Thinks a guy who turned over his entire cabinet on a yearly and semi annual basis is a genius.

Agrees every new hire is only the best as that is all he hires until he fires them months later as they are losers and inept at their jobs.

Thinks Trump actually was a big achiever even though economically before Covid achieved a performance on a par with Obama but blowing out what was a contracting deficit.

Its incredible to think with all the evidence of Trump being a total loser their are still people who think Trump is a genius. I guess the only cure would be to lock them up with the other losers who participated in the capital riots. Pretty sure they have lost their devotion complex.

[QUOTE=Spidy;2783303]Gunmaker at Vegas gun trade show, exhibits rebranded semi-automatic rifle for children inspired by the AR-15 machine gun, commonly used in U.S. mass shootings. What sick machination is this now, you ask?

[b]Weeks after 6-year-old shoots teacher, Vegas holds a gun show offering JR-15 rifles for kids[/b]
[URL]https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2023/1/17/2147712/-Weeks-after-6-year-old-shoots-teacher-Vegas-holds-a-gun-show-offering-JR-15-rifles-for-kids[/URL]

[b]AR-15 style rifle marketed for children showcased at Las Vegas gun convention: Despicable[/b]
[URL]https://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/new-york-elections-government/ny-rifle-ar-15-style-children-gun-show-las-vegas-20230118-7yuykl3rufguhlirrrtobmy2ka-story.html [/URL]

Hey Tiny 12, it would seem apparently, that your [b]American child soldiers[/b], aren't really a joke after all, but just [U][b]"good business"[/b][/u], especially to those right-wing gunmakers, lobbyists and MTG gun-toting QAnon/Repub/MAGA types on the right.

Yep, American children are now..."just good gun business!"[/QUOTE]Yeah, we shouldn't be teaching kids how to exercise their Second Amendment rights. We should be telling them they're trannies and cutting their dicks off. Get your priorities right, conservative bigots!

[QUOTE=Tiny12;2783232]Good point. Some of our friends here continually dance around that. Yeah, Trump made some fuck ups during COVID. But he also did some things right. That was one of them.[/QUOTE]I realize that Repubs like to use the "ban" word when talking about what Donnie the Dumbass did re China, but it absolutely was not a "ban".

Donnie the Dumbass banned flights from mainland China but did not ban flights from Macau or Hong Kong. Only Repubs would be stupid enough to believe that somebody from, say, Hong Kong, would not have visited relatives in Wuhan before flying to the US from Hong Kong. Only Repubs would be stupid enough to assume that nobody in Hong Kong had visitors from Wuhan before flying to the US.

Donnie the Dumbass didn't "ban" Chinese folks from flying from Europe to the US either. Only a Repub would believe that nobody from mainland China could have been infected and flown from Europe to the US.

I'd post one of the thousands of sources from the internet to support my comments but supporters of Donnie the Dumbass would say that those are "fake news".

If Donnie the Dumbass really banned Chinese, he would have required every person of Chinese ancestry to present a negative COVID test before flying and would have required every Chinese to take another COVID test upon landing.

Of course, the whole thing was mute because COVID was already in the US when Donnie the Dumbass issued his "ban that wasn't a ban". Nothing in the world signals stupidity more than closing the barn door after all the horses have escaped and then lying about it.