Cartagena Reports

[QUOTE=Dublin12;2602547]Thanks for your response. It seems perverse as well as short-sighted to cheat those who treat you generously. I can well imagine the opposite being true. Why wouldn't you want to take advantage of someone that is mean? I have had it explained to me that these girls are different, but not the level of dishonesty they resort to.

Angela, who I think probably nobbled my beer would have earned 7 million COP for four weeks work. My losses to her if it was her that drugged me, were in the region of 2 million. What are the chances she is going to make that sort of money in that period now? Elena would have earned 5. 75 million instead of being scammed by the hag and her niece. "Diahann Carrol" would have made 6 million. Does that make sense to you that the first decides to screw me over for a paltry 50 k, and the other, 200 k?

Looking around the Clock Tower, there was definitely an over-supply of women. I am not sure that any two and possibly all three combined might be able to make 7 mill in that time. I understand it's currently low season there. It would appear that when these women find a golden goose, they can only think about wringing it's neck rather than wait for it to lay the golden egg.[/QUOTE]Yes, it absolutely makes sense that those girls would attempt to take advantage of you when you were offering that amount of money. It makes sense because, by offering that amount of money you were showing that you had absolutely no idea what you were doing.

If you walked into a pub back home, where they sell pints of beer for $3 (or whatever price is the norm) and told the bartender you want to pay $15 for each beer, but you don't want a pint, for $15, you want to pay $15 for a shot glass of beer, how will he respond? If it was me, each shot glass would be nothing but foam.

I know a woman in Medellin who is a dentist. Fresh out of university the best offer she received paid 1. 5 million pesos a month. For a dentist. Meanwhile, you're offering almost 5 times as much, plus room and board to girls who probably take 6 months to earn that much money. Worse, you offered it to complete strangers.

It may seem like everyone is ganging up on you, but you put yourself in the position. It's not the girls' fault, it's not the fault of the police, or Western Union, or anyone else. If you had taken the advice you were given, you probably would have had a great time and you would be planning your next trip.

[QUOTE=Dublin12;2602555]Regarding

5. It was not an orgy with more than one girl. The hag slept in the spare room. And on the occasion when they scammed me, both stayed in the spare room.[/QUOTE]You seem stubborn or top of ignorant about Latin culture. You are applying logic to a place where that does not pertain. Why and how they got that way is a much deeper discussion. We are mongers and presumably not there to implement deeper social change! You cited 3 for 3 examples of where you LT strategy failed, you were told it would fail on this board, and yet you insist, persist, and defend. Get a clue bro. Mongering in Latin America has its risks, but also its rewards. You have to be smart about it and adapt to their culture. Latinas don't think beyond that moment, their planning is abysmal, they may not even think about dinner far less tomorrow. It makes no sense to me whatsoever, but I am not them! I have a chica that to me is a definite 9/10 (and I am a picky MFer), she is a great lay, top 3 ever for me. We never discuss money, and she takes what I give her, doesn't even look at it, and we are like friends. She even asked me a time or two why I paid her, and a I just laugh it off and say it's a gift. But if she asks when I am not there, it's allows a polite decline(I actually got the impression last time I am there, she wants me not to pay her when I am there and just give her that money when she asks/needs it, i.e. Be her banker. However I have no intention of going down that road. If I was living there that is exactly what I would do. She had a child when she was age fifteen, and it's a daily struggle, she is 21 now and still hot as hell, you would never be able to tell she had a child.. God was generous in the looks department with her. But she has zero self esteem. In the time I have known her, she put two tattoos, had a breast enhancement surgery, and a nose job. None of those made any sense to me, she was messing with near perfection, why would you augment perky be to see breasts on a medium build frame, but to her low self esteem it was a boost. I listen, but I mostly like to fuck her. Bottom line do not apply your logic to them. Meet them where they are and it will be better for all. I guess your stubbornness and need to impose your way or the southeast Asian way will keep burning you.

[QUOTE=GeneHickman;2602729]You seem stubborn or top of ignorant about Latin culture. You are applying logic to a place where that does not pertain. Why and how they got that way is a much deeper discussion. We are mongers and presumably not there to implement deeper social change! You cited 3 for 3 examples of where you LT strategy failed, you were told it would fail on this board, and yet you insist, persist, and defend. Get a clue bro. Mongering in Latin America has its risks, but also its rewards. You have to be smart about it and adapt to their culture. Latinas don't think beyond that moment, their planning is abysmal, they may not even think about dinner far less tomorrow. It makes no sense to me whatsoever, but I am not them! I have a chica that to me is a definite 9/10 (and I am a picky MFer), she is a great lay, top 3 ever for me. We never discuss money, and she takes what I give her, doesn't even look at it, and we are like friends. She even asked me a time or two why I paid her, and a I just laugh it off and say it's a gift. But if she asks when I am not there, it's allows a polite decline(I actually got the impression last time I am there, she wants me not to pay her when I am there and just give her that money when she asks/needs it, i.e. Be her banker. However I have no intention of going down that road. If I was living there that is exactly what I would do. She had a child when she was age fifteen, and it's a daily struggle, she is 21 now and still hot as hell, you would never be able to tell she had a child.. God was generous in the looks department with her. But she has zero self esteem. In the time I have known her, she put two tattoos, had a breast enhancement surgery, and a nose job. None of those made any sense to me, she was messing with near perfection, why would you augment perky be to see breasts on a medium build frame, but to her low self esteem it was a boost. I listen, but I mostly like to fuck her. Bottom line do not apply your logic to them. Meet them where they are and it will be better for all. I guess your stubbornness and need to impose your way or the southeast Asian way will keep burning you.[/QUOTE]As I look at those posters who are attacking my refusal to listen to one person only, I have a question. What advice did you give me that would have helped me avoid much of these probs? I'd like to see the posts where I was told "These women are inherently dishonest". I'd like to see the post that said, "You should not offer these women help under any circumstances because they will victimise you". I'd like to see the post that tells me what to do when the women refuse to leave the apartment as a means of extorting me".

The main advice I was given was that I was unlikely to find any takers for my offer of 7 million, or that I was offering too much. That in itself is contradictory advice because one party is telling me it can't be done while the other party is telling me I am offering too much so it must be possible. I found a taker at the first attempt. Regardless of the actual outcome of that, it might have been fairer to say, "You may find takers, but after agreement, they will reinterpret any such agreement as they see fit".

There were plenty of references to cultural differences, but I cannot recall a single post which defined ingrained dishonesty as one of those cultural differences. In fact, I have no recollection of any definition of the oft referred to "cultural differences" by anyone. I might be wrong, but I'd like to see the posts that explained what this actually meant when members were making such comments. Of course I could be disingenuous and also mention that nobody told me that my drink might get spiked, but as we know I was not ignorant of that possibility and I take responsibility.

One piece of advice I was given by some, which I did downplay, was how difficult things would be with lack of Spanish. On a previous trip to TH, I wifed up with a girl for the best part of three weeks and communication was mostly through Google Translate. Who knew that this app was not going to work for me, as well as it did in TH?

I am not trying to avoid personal responsibility, but when it's all said and done, most of those who are saying, "I told you so". More accurately said, "Cultural differences" but never attempted to explain these. To put it another way, if I were going to Saudi Arabia and were asking for info while I am there, how many people will tell me "You will have problems because of cultural differences"? Would it not be more helpful to explain those cultural differences, such as "P & P, is possibly a death penalty crime in Saudi". WE live in a world full of cultural differences, and many of us overcome those daily, especially if we are in mixed marriages. In the absence of any explanation as to what these differences are, should we really be surprised if like myself, the thinking is, "Whatever these differences are, they can't be that serious or they would have explained them"?

So for those who are in the "I told you so" camp, what exactly did you tell me apart from undefined cultural differences.

[QUOTE=Dublin12;2602748]I have a question. What advice did you give me that would have helped me avoid much of these probs? I'd like to see the posts where I was told "These women are inherently dishonest".[/QUOTE]Since you asked, a common advice is to take small step. It seems to me you kept on repeating the same mistake. Another thing you were told is you can't think the girl think the way you do. Your virtue become your weakness in your situations.

And the advice you agree with is the one that tells you not to worry about robbery.

[QUOTE=Nounce;2602753]
And the advice you agree with is the one that tells you not to worry about robbery.[/QUOTE]That's not what I said. Nobody told me not to worry about robbery, not that they should need to give advice on that. What I said, is there were those who mentioned cultural differences, but not one person mentioned the rampant dishonesty of these girls was part of these cultural differences.

It stands to reason that there are going to be cultural differences. Girls from TH and Cam are usually Asiatic and often Buddhist. Girls from Col are often of European extraction and are Christians. But did anyone point out the key cultural differences on which I could make a judgement. For example, there are cultures such as Indian where a woman going with someone who is not approved of by the family, might fall victim to honour killings. It was the lack of explanation which led me to conclude, "If these differences were important, someone would have given details".

Now, there are plenty saying "I told you so", but what exactly did they tell me?

[QUOTE=Dublin12;2602033] thought you might be interested in hearing of my misadventures[/QUOTE]Thanks for this post. It's a real gem and fun to read the responses and reactions to it.

I like your approach. You've got an honest, optimistic and generous spirit; it's the path of genuine happiness. Risky though. Reading that post I was thinking "it could be that the purpose of your life is only to serve as a warning to others". I shuddered at some of the behavior. Others have mentioned this, it but the point about not waving around cash is one I hope sinks in for people. It's not obvious to most Caribbean sex workers that they may be able to work millions of pesos out of you over an interval measured in days or months or years. The culture lives in the here and now. Money in your pocket or at your bedside has an immediate value, measured in minutes or hours. Anyway, your post spells this out better than I can here.

Original post was #11542.

[QUOTE=Dublin12;2602764]That's not what I said. Nobody told me not to worry about robbery[/QUOTE]I guess I misunderstood the conversation. FWIW, I am referring to these posts.

[QUOTE]...so you don't worry about being robbed or something like that...[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Dublin12]Thanks for that, but being robbed was not a paramount concern. ...[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Dublin12;2602764]That's not what I said. Nobody told me not to worry about robbery, not that they should need to give advice on that. What I said, is there were those who mentioned cultural differences, but not one person mentioned the rampant dishonesty of these girls was part of these cultural differences.

It stands to reason that there are going to be cultural differences. Girls from TH and Cam are usually Asiatic and often Buddhist. Girls from Col are often of European extraction and are Christians. But did anyone point out the key cultural differences on which I could make a judgement. For example, there are cultures such as Indian where a woman going with someone who is not approved of by the family, might fall victim to honour killings. It was the lack of explanation which led me to conclude, "If these differences were important, someone would have given details".

Now, there are plenty saying "I told you so", but what exactly did they tell me?[/QUOTE]The posts below are my posts alone. A few other posters were also telling you the same thing, with a lot more extra on why you shouldn't approach things with your mindset of Eastern culture.

Post where I explained why 250 - 300 a day is too low.

[URL]http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?582-Cartagena-Reports&p=2586598&viewfull=1[/URL]#post2586598.

Post where I explained that these chicas think day to day and do not think long term and where I gave an example if the monger gets drugged.

[URL]http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?582-Cartagena-Reports&p=2586571&viewfull=1[/URL]#post2586571.

Post where I told the story of my friend getting robbed when he was out cold. I think he was drugged but just didn't want to admit it so I'm not going to assume.

[URL]http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?582-Cartagena-Reports&p=2586537&viewfull=1[/URL]#post2586537.

Post where I warned if you're solo to put your safety first.

[URL]http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?582-Cartagena-Reports&p=2586261&viewfull=1[/URL]#post2586261.

Here's an extra one where I posted a few of my negative experiences with paying first and how some girls will be dishonest with gringos that do long term arrangements.

[URL]http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?578-General-Info&p=2567441[/URL]#post2567441.

Mongers do not have to spell things out word for word and step by step for every new gringo who wants to a gamble with the chicas in Latin America. With basic street smarts anyone can figure it out (If I do X then X have a high chance of happening so lets do Y). With every post here, users always talk about safety, prices of chicas, food, best locations to stay, and things to do beside mongering when that becomes boring.

With the way you moved, your outcome could have happened to you anywhere it just had a higher probability in Latin America.

[QUOTE=Nounce;2602788]I guess I misunderstood the conversation. FWIW, I am referring to these posts.[/QUOTE]My apologies. I do recall those posts, though I can't remember the context. My guess is it is what it is, and that robbery was not a major concern, though with the benefit of hindsight, it should have been.

Statistically, the more girls you meet the more likely you are to come across dishonesty. Prior to that, though I don't keep score. I'd estimate that I had about 80 mongering relationships and only once been the victim of theft. Clearly, I would be naive to think it could not happen, but presuming that Angela was involved in spiking my drink, and having been dealing with a culture where thefts were remarkably rare, you might understand why I was surprised that in Col, no girl I ever met, passed up any opportunity to steal from me, even when the economic arguments were that they were killing the golden goose. I've accused these girls of stupidity before, and I've seen nothing to tell me that this was a wrong conclusion.

[QUOTE=JellyDonut;2602771]Thanks for this post. It's a real gem and fun to read the responses and reactions to it.

I like your approach. You've got an honest, optimistic and generous spirit; it's the path of genuine happiness. Risky though. Reading that post I was thinking "it could be that the purpose of your life is only to serve as a warning to others". I shuddered at some of the behavior. Others have mentioned this, it but the point about not waving around cash is one I hope sinks in for people. It's not obvious to most Caribbean sex workers that they may be able to work millions of pesos out of you over an interval measured in days or months or years. The culture lives in the here and now. Money in your pocket or at your bedside has an immediate value, measured in minutes or hours. Anyway, your post spells this out better than I can here.

Original post was #11542.[/QUOTE]I think you are someone who understands me. Though cynics may be happy with their own cynicism, I pity them. My lack of cynicism may have led to my down fall in Colombia, but until then, it had served me well. Of course, I now find myself questioning my previous experience. Was it just dumb luck I was almost never victimised in SEA. I am pretty sure I know what the cynics are saying in respect to that point. But maybe I was right? Most people, if you treat them well will respond in kind.

As far as the money is concerned, Iago in Othello says it best: "he who steals my purse, steals trash; ".

Best wishes.

There are good and bad girls. Maybe circumstances or just plain bad luck in their life makes them take advantage of instant gratification. I was drinking and dancing with this girl at classico in Sosua. I usually take local pesos only which I placed in my shirt pocket. Reason is easy to get to to pay for the drinks. Hidden away inside pocket of my pants is couple of hundred dollar bills and hundred dollar worth of pesos. She saw the money in my shirt pocket when I bought the drinks. We had negotiated 2500 for TLN. We were dancing close and I did not even feel her taking money from my pocket which was around 800 pesos. Only time I realized was after dancing we went to get drinks and my pocket was empty. I asked her if she saw my bills fall to the floor. She pretended not to notice. She probably was wondering how I am going to pay for the drinks. I reached inside my pant hidden pocket and pulled out a wad of cash. I wanted her to see fully realizing she stole the money while we were dancing close. I was not one to complain and call police or anything like that. The moment we got the drinks I said I do not want to be with her on her puzzled look. For a few hundred pesos she lost. I would have treated her well.

This is the mindset of some. Having said that I have got girls who were totally trustworthy.

We as mongers need to learn the subtle art of differentiation. There are always clues.

[QUOTE=Dublin12;2602813]I think you are someone who understands me. Though cynics may be happy with their own cynicism, I pity them. My lack of cynicism may have led to my down fall in Colombia, but until then, it had served me well. Of course, I now find myself questioning my previous experience. Was it just dumb luck I was almost never victimised in SEA. I am pretty sure I know what the cynics are saying in respect to that point. But maybe I was right? Most people, if you treat them well will respond in kind.

As far as the money is concerned, Iago in Othello says it best: "he who steals my purse, steals trash; ".

Best wishes.[/QUOTE]I think by and large SEA is safer and less scheming and even risky compared to Latin America. The cultures, the religion, the history of the people etc is all different.

[QUOTE=Dublin12;2602748]

So for those who are in the "I told you so" camp, what exactly did you tell me apart from undefined cultural differences.[/QUOTE]I don't know how long you have been on this board or how far back in the Colombia I. E. MDE CTG and BOG threads you read. The information is mentioned repeatedly and these discussions come up every so often. Usually but not always precipitated by either a self reported incident or a news report of an incident. There is a wealth of wisdom in those discussions that makes you aware of the circumstances. Then there are you tube videos discussing these risks. If someone says they did not know the risks of Centro in Mde, and were on this board, what can anyone say.

That said, even saying all of this to you. You deserve a huge kudos for doing this write up and taking the arrows, as I will guarantee you there are more than a few that will read this and be more vigilant. New mongers head down there every day and some even think this pandemic has shifted some people from SEA to LA. It is a timely reminder of the pitfalls. Just accept that your methods and research were flawed. Additionally your luck was also bad. My preparation was here and a few YouTube videos. I was super cautious in 2019 almost to the point of not enjoying myself. Yet Sometimes you walk into dumb luck like I did in early 2019 with my Chica and not even know it at the time. But I still keep my guard up mostly. Heck I don't even drink more than one beer when I am in Colombia. I can drink all the beer I want stateside. I am there for the pussy! It's all about sensible risk mitigation.

[QUOTE=GeneHickman;2602944]I think by and large SEA is safer and less scheming and even risky compared to Latin America. The cultures, the religion, the history of the people etc is all different.[/QUOTE]I think you hit it GH. I think Dublin assumed SEA and LA were much the same. I have not mongered in SEA but I have read that the transition from a short term prostitute to a longer term sugar baby type gal is seamless with these Asian women, and Dublin thought LA was the same as SEA.

Where he ran into trouble (and I have as well) is trying to convert the short term gals into sugar baby, longer term arrangements. Unless I use a website like [URL]seeking.com[/URL]/ SA specifically designed for longer term, I have run into trouble, and that is why I told him to use that website.

His response was that he had experience in SEA. He was generous and offering a good deal. That was all true, but he did not get that the women did not trust someone like him. I mean, how many times in Latin history have American or Western European countries invested in LA and tried to work out a mutually beneficial arrangement just to watch the Latinos steal them blind? Dublin just did not get that. The Latinos have the attitude that they are going to screw you over before you screw them over.

In my experience, you have to go way up the Colombian socioeconomic food chain to find women truly interested in even the shortest of long term arrangements, and Dublin did not get that. It is his loss though though that he did not accommodate to the culture. His real flaw was that he expected the culture should adapt to him unlike his adapting to the culture. It is his right to look down the nose of that inferior culture of Colombia, and it is inferior but what he is losing out on is a fantastic mongering destination for those who can adjust to the culture.

[QUOTE=Dublin12;2602033]Further to my most recent post, I promised a trip report. I thought you might be interested in hearing of my misadventures. This rapidly became the holiday in hell.

I won't bore you with all the problems I had trying to book this, but between my bank, the credit card co, and Colombian bureaucracy, I should have taken the hint, that this was never going to end well.

So I finally arrive in Colombia and on my first night, I meet one of the very few natives, Angela who can speak English. I have a plan which usually works very well in TH. Try to find one girl to "wife up for the duration" I am offering 1800 USD ($65 per night = 250000 Colombian pesos) plus daily shopping trips for about another (100 k per day) $850 in total as well as random acts of generosity. Angela is interested....


So if the question is, "Do I wait until TH has reopened, or go to Colombia where you don't even need a PCR test or to quarantine"? My answer is avoid Colombia like the plague. But if you are going to ignore my advice, then at least learn sufficient Spanish to reduce the size of the target on your back, that all Gringos carry. And if you have a cynical attitude towards the "ladies" in TH, and I know quite a few do, then I think you should really try Colombia to get a sense of perspective.[/QUOTE]Magnificent report. This is like Mr. Bean Goes Mongering. I laughed until I cried.