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[QUOTE=Blanquiceleste;2204521]
If you really want to know LKY's thoughts on the Philippines, please read "From Third World to First" authored by LKY.[/QUOTE]Good call Blanq.
I just pulled my copy off the shelf and read Chapter 18 again. LKY certainly did not like the way that the Philippines kowtowed to the USA and suggested that he would not go down that path.
[QUOTE=RedKilt;2204619]Good call Blanq.
I just pulled my copy off the shelf and read Chapter 18 again. LKY certainly did not like the way that the Philippines kowtowed to the USA and suggested that he would not go down that path.[/QUOTE]Back in 1983 after Senator Ninoy Aquino was assassinated, most banks around the world blocked their loans to the Phiippines and started calling the loans up in protest. At that time, President Marcos sent his Trade & Commerce Minister, Bobby Ongpin to Singapore to plead with LKY for a funding of $300 mn - $500 mn to pay the interest on some of the loans. LKY looked him blankly in the eye and said "No. We will never see that money again if we give it to you. ".
A true visionary. 35 years later, today we still have people "lending" money to Pinoys hoping they will get it back one day. Sigh.
[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2204226] Even if the US had not taken whatever PM alludes to from the Philippines way back when, the chances that your average bar girl, fisherman, or farmer would be benefiting from it today (or even back then) are no doubt nil. [/QUOTE]"No doubt"? Seems like kind of a historical leap of faith about how things might have turned out 120 years later had the United States not taken the Philippines under the end of a gun barrel. As Hutsori points out, the devil is usually in the details.
Hutsori, your post is a rarity in the forum, where most people want to focus on the old "in-out, in-out. " Lots of background here on the Igorot, and I always appreciate learning this kind of stuff. Could you point me to sources where I could learn more about this history? PM if you prefer. While your report is accurate as to the limited goods valuable enough to ship from the Philippines to Spanish America, the Manila Galleons did transport goods from China through the Philippines to the Americas, including spices and porcelain.
[QUOTE=Eszpresszo;2204337]Odd that someone with a moniker like "Pedro Morales" is so unaware of what was once known as Imperial Spain, an empire so oppressive that all of its colonies, except for the Philippines had liberated themselves from it in 1898. They had long been ousted from South America. When Cuba had enough, though their act of revolution started an odd of turn of events for Cuba, the US and the PI.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Golfinho;2204273]Anyone who has spend anytime in Asia inevitably muses to the effect the various colonizers had on their respective domains: Consider Malaysia viz-a-viz adjacent Indonesia; the French domains; independent Thailand, etc. And anyone has obviously noted more similarities between the Philippines and Central America than with Asia.[/QUOTE]A couple guys named Acemoglu and Robinson, in a book titled **Why Nations Fail**, reinforce what both E and G are suggesting here. They argue that colonizers took two distinctly different approaches to their colonies. Countries such as Britain and some other European colonizers undertook a sort of "inclusive" approach, creating institutions patterned after those in the mother country, with the idea that these colonies could eventually become self-governing. Other countries, notably Spain and Portugal, built institutions intended primarily to support "extraction," institutions that were generally guided by forceful and oppressive control. These guys contend that extractive institutions arose in part because the colonizers feared their captive colonials.
Examples such as the United States, Canada, and Australia speak to the effects of inclusive institutions. Other more recent nation-states could also be cited. Latin American countries and the Philippines provide evidence of the effects of extractive institutions. Hutsori may be correct that the Spanish intent for the Philippines was largely for logistical support rather than extracting resources, but their approach was clearly oppressive and forceful, with little intent to set up the Philippines with self-supporting institutions.
The Philippines got a post war lift and LKY hoped to aspire to that at the time of the foundation of the Philippines. Of course, Singapose wnet on to better things and Phgils went backwards, thanks to the US navy and air force and banana republicanism.
The USA is a blight. In the Philippines, the USA slaughtered her leaders after 1898 and destroyed the place. Briinging Spain into it is a red herring. The USMC sang songs about how they deformed their victims. A $$holes like McASrthur's father was big into that.
The USA used a false flag in Cuba and turned it into a brothel, which is why Castro ended up taking over.
The USA destroyed Manila in World War Two when the Japanese navy defended it, General Yamashita's army having taken themselves off to Baguio to put up a stiffer resistance.
The USA is not and never has been a benevolent force. Its crimes in the Philippines are testimony to that. The Pinoysa should have left the Japanese a free run at it.
I am well aware of the history and the war of maps between Spain and Holland etc. I also knowo what hte USA has given the world and what it continues to give the world. Death and destruction and little more.
[QUOTE=Blanquiceleste;2204521]LMAO. Its a good thing you are not based in Singapore. You could be arrested, caned, fined and jailed for even suggesting something like this.
If you really want to know LKY's thoughts on the Philippines, please read "From Third World to First" authored by LKY.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=Eszpresszo;2204337]Odd that someone with a moniker like "Pedro Morales" is so unaware of what was once known as Imperial Spain, an empire so oppressive that all of its colonies, except for the Philippines had liberated themselves from it in 1898. They had long been ousted from South America. When Cuba had enough, though their act of revolution started an odd of turn of events for Cuba, the US and the PI.
As for Singapore, it wasn't founded as a nation until after WW2, so I can't fathom how your comment is even relevant, and I'm incredulous that anyone would say that. But, thankfully Singapore became something much better.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=Hutsori;2204323]I presume a product of the American educational system, yeah?
The Yanks weren't stealing people, and Intramuros is still around, so e.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2204755]
The USA is a blight. In the Philippines, the USA slaughtered her leaders after 1898 and destroyed the place. Briinging Spain into it is a red herring. The USMC sang songs about how they deformed their victims. A $$holes like McASrthur's father was big into that.
The USA used a false flag in Cuba and turned it into a brothel, which is why Castro ended up taking over.
The USA destroyed Manila in World War Two when the Japanese navy defended it, General Yamashita's army having taken themselves off to Baguio to put up a stiffer resistance.
The USA is not and never has been a benevolent force. Its crimes in the Philippines are testimony to that. The Pinoysa should have left the Japanese a free run at it.
I am well aware of the history and the war of maps between Spain and Holland etc. I also knowo what hte USA has given the world and what it continues to give the world. Death and destruction and little more.[/QUOTE]But how do you really feel about the USA? LOL.
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2204755]I also knowo what hte USA has given the world and what it continues to give the world. Death and destruction and little more.[/QUOTE]But that is in exchange for money for the corporations that elected the politicians. Nobody is just going around giving out death and destruction for free.
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2204755]at the time of the foundation of the Philippines. Of course, Singapose wnet on to better things and Phgils went backwards, thanks to the US navy and air force and banana republicanism.
The USA is a blight. In the Philippines, the USA slaughtered her leaders after 1898 and destroyed the place.[/QUOTE]What was the USA supposed to do: by 1890 they had finished off the Indians, closed that frontier; they'the gotten their former slaves back to being reenslaved. They had to find somewhere to express their national impulses, and then Spain came along. It was really the perfect opportunity to keep doing more of the same, with the added benefit that a good war could help 'bind the nation' allowing ex-Confederate states to participate.
I recommend that those interested in the involvement of the US in the Philippines read a book called "America's Boy," which, for its for 250 pages or so, presents a reasonably detailed history of the country from the time of the Spanish colonization through to the regime of GMA. Though the book focuses more on Marcos (America's boy) than on other post-independence national leaders, it does an excellent job providing an historical perspective that allowed Marcos to rise to and remain in power.
GE.
[QUOTE=NattyBumpo;2204815]But how do you really feel about the USA? LOL.[/QUOTE]Sounds to me like someone who's momma was a Subic bar girl impregnated by a departing GI Joe. America’s forgotten child left behind.
From a variety of dating sites I have refined my list of pinays to call when in country to about 25 in or very close to manila, makati, and Cebu. I have frankly been overwhelmed by responses of cute willing girls ages 19 to 38. I am north of 60 yo so all the more surprising to me accustomed to western women. At first, in my excited haste, I made some commitments to meet less than stellar candidates which I would now have promptly discarded. Now I have a rather impressive lineup to work through when I get there in two weeks. BTW, I'll be there for 3 weeks. Another shock to me are the number of lovely pinays on the north coast of Mindanao island who will jump in the sack at the drop of a hat. Most are asking for some understanding of single moms situation which I am guessing means 1200 php or so. Question I have is, is visiting Mindanao a viable option to attempt this time in country or ever for that matter. I am still reeling from the interest, its a heady feeling.
[QUOTE=KabulGuy;2201578]The interesting thing is that I have never been asked at customs / immigration for an onward ticket anywhere. Other than airline staff has anyone been asked by a government official?[/QUOTE]I was, just last week, but it's the only time ever (I've done a few trips via the Philippines on separate tickets instead of out and back on one ticket). First asked by the airline in the departing country. Of course, and given the reservation code he was happy. And then later by Philippines immigration whether I had an onward ticket. Replied yes, to the US next week, do you want to see it? She declined, stamped my passport, and off I went to baggage claim.
I had a connecting onward domestic flight which meant claiming my bag and then instead of exiting the baggage hall, was directed to put the bag *back on the carousel* with an extra tag, bright orange. Seems the handlers will eventually spot it and forward it on. But it doesn't seem to clear customs. Curious.
While it's on my mind, why does the Philippines have this rule that you cannot buy drinks *airside* and take them on the plane with you. For the US and Australia flights at least? You have to go through a 3rd security check where they relieve you of your liquids. PITA, especially when the airline only offers you an occasional drink unless you ask for more. In most airports the drinks in airside shops have already been inspected so they're "safe", as it were. Security requirement of the destination country?
[QUOTE=Simmer;2204935]While it's on my mind, why does the Philippines have this rule that you cannot buy drinks *airside* and take them on the plane with you. For the US and Australia flights at least? You have to go through a 3rd security check where they relieve you of your liquids. PITA, especially when the airline only offers you an occasional drink unless you ask for more. In most airports the drinks in airside shops have already been inspected so they're "safe", as it were. Security requirement of the destination country?[/QUOTE]If you noticed, when you went through the second security (first is at the door coming into the building before you even check in) they didn't care about any of that shit. Didn't have to take shoes off or nothing. That is the PI security. Like you said, the third more strict one is for the destination country's requirement. Fucking sucks going back to the US, because I always get drinks from the airport club and end up getting them taken away. Going to Thailand there is no third security like that so I always load up so I won't have to buy stuff on Cebu Pacific.
[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2201619]They don't need to ask. The airline asks. If immigration happens to ask and you don't have one, then it is a big fine for the airline. I think they do have to type the reservation of your onward flight into the system before it will let them check you in.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=KabulGuy;2201578]The interesting thing is that I have never been asked at customs / immigration for an onward ticket anywhere. Other than airline staff has anyone been asked by a government official?[/QUOTE]Have been asked for onward ticket at the Phils inbound Immigration queue almost every single entrance into the country. A few years ago, the outbound carriers (Korean Air, China Air, Cathay Pac, etc) started asking for it at SFO / LAX at checkin. However on my most recent flight to Phils they did not ask, when in fact my outbound flight out of Phils was more than 30 days. However, once landed in Phils and at the Immigration booth, the officer asked. In the past I've gotten 59-day visas ahead of time in the US thru the Phils Embassy. Not this time. He asked: "How many days this time? I don't see visa in your passport". 40. "Just you extend. You go Intramuros office". Stamp. "Next!" And that was it.
The reason for the 3rd security checkpoint is quite simple. Checkpoints #1 and #2 aren't quite adequate.
I personally are glad they have it. Wouldn't want to leave Manila without it.
I believe at some gates after the checkpoint #3 you can water up your container.
[QUOTE=Simmer;2204935]
While it's on my mind, why does the Philippines have this rule that you cannot buy drinks *airside* and take them on the plane with you. For the US and Australia flights at least? You have to go through a 3rd security check where they relieve you of your liquids. PITA, especially when the airline only offers you an occasional drink unless you ask for more. In most airports the drinks in airside shops have already been inspected so they're "safe", as it were. Security requirement of the destination country?[/QUOTE]I'm not sure what drives this. They check for liquids in the gate area in Manila (to Japan), Bangkok (to US) and Hong Kong (to US), but not in Narita to US.