Kyiv

[QUOTE=Rune J; 1375153]Thank you PedroToronja!

I think we are the same when it comes to be an "gentleman" and thinking / approach towards UA women. I have only been with a few women in UA, but if things start to escalate like they have so far, it will be better years to come.

I don't want to be insult anybody, but UA boys (not men) don't realize what kind of "sexmachines / sexmaniacs" their women are. If they only would give their women a good time in bed, they would understand them. Unfortunatly, but fortunatly for us from the west, they don't know how to do this. It takes more then a few minutes of sex to turn a woman into a sexmachine.

Maybe we could meet for a beer or drink sometime and exchange some info.

Happy hunting in 2013!

Rune J.[/QUOTE]My next stop in Kiev is from Feb 17, for 2 weeks. Will you be there?

[QUOTE=Prosal; 1375252]Ok, ok, so you want a little pillow talk after sex, you want to be a gentleman, you want to let her decide, ect ect. Well how quaint. Excuse me while I blow chunks. Your childish and lyric little ode is cute, and I understand that all that is new for you (and I respect your refreshing enthousiasm) , but let me tell you something. Being perceived as mischevious / bad / unpredicatable / exciting is MUCH more advantageous than to be perceived as a predictable and boring "Mr Nice Guy". And about "UA men" as you put it, there is aspects of the slav game that the slavic female is groomed to like and most importantly RESPECT, like being manly, direct, uncompromising and even cruel sometimes (by our standards). Of course you need to combine it with the qualities like humour, intelligence, culture, sentimentality and sensitivity at the right moments, ect, but adopting some of the local playing rules is GREAT for your game.

And when it comes to relationship, the dirty little secret of this part of the world is that you can have some little cute adventures with Russian women without acting like a (nice) brute, but she will never really respect you if you don't. Those women want to be dominated. They like wild action. They want that a man call the shots. They want to be played with. Then you can act like an sleazy ass, be drunk and whatever, but still will take what's yours (her). And she will love you for it![/QUOTE]There is a reason why restaurant have menus: we (and them ladies) not all like the same. Your game depends a lot of what you want to get out of it, what kind of girl you are attracted to, and more importantly (the 'enemy' also has a vote) , what the girl likes. There are all kinds. One size does not fit all and whatever works for you Prosal, at your current age and in the grounds you hunt, may not work for others, at different age, different strenghts (looks, money) and ways. We don't have to debate this, we are probably all right. I tend to agree with my buddy Rune though, and after 6 years and 40+ visits and many relationships with the female kind (professional, work related, one-nighters, sponsoring, bg / gf, etc.) IMHO he and I are mostly right.

[QUOTE=Prosal; 1375967]Right on. What definitely scores big time is to be able to go from bad boy to sentimental in a heartbeat. Switching gears goes a long way with slavic women, both in conversation, flirting and in bed. Keeps them guessing. It's so self-evident that it's like autopilot for me.

All this "gentleman" BS below is just nonsense. Be bad, but don't be rude. Rude they don't like, but they do like games.

BTW Rune J, you should learn that anything that a woman (ANY woman) says must been taken with an grain of salt. The same ukrainian girl who will explain you how uninteresting and dull are the local men and how brilliant you are, will maybe, two days after your departure, have a quick bonk standing up in the stairs of her building with Dimitri or Sergei. Hmm. It is so obvious that I don't even know why I bother to explain it.[/QUOTE]Leonardo Di Caprio at 21 can probably get away with anything, say anything, be bad or nice, money or no money will always get pussy anywhere. From there to, lets say. Me, there is a huge distance; and then there is everything in between. So regarding what works or not, it is hard to set a rule. And the best battle plan become worthless at the sound of the first shot: the enemy has a vote too: a lot depends on your target.

We can though describe what is commonplace in those lands: men suck, women are not happy with them. I know of many UA a girls who refuse outright to date Russian / ukrainian men: they grew frustrated with them and they won't put up with the abuse. By acting like them, most of us are probably getting the same results those guys get: some (probably the best) girls will simply not date / fuck us. There is a huge difference, generally speaking, between men and women in the Slavic world: men suck, women are adorable, better educated, nice, take care of themselves, less drunken and better workers. Those women do not put up with rude, inconsiderate men of any nationality.

I know well, as friends and employees, many educated girls in UA (I don't mix my business with my mongering) and I know them for many years. They simply don't go for the 'bad' guy you describe. Sure, some don't date for years, but many are married to good guys that treat them nicely, because even there some are lucky enough to find real nice guys (minority, but they exists).

[quote=pedrotoronja;1376330]we can though describe what is commonplace in those lands: men suck, women are not happy with them.[/quote]well, that is imo pretty much a stereotype. many, many russian girls (but i agree that it is maybe less true for ukrainian girls) date in their peer group, sharing the same culture, ect. moscow or saint peterburg's trendy clubs are full of stylish and good looking local guys with obviously great game, and obviously very successful with girls. i think that most of the girls / women who complain about how dull and rude the local guys are, in the whole, simply girls / women of a level (not pretty enough, too old, ect) that doesn't interest the "top" male population.

also, to say that all the locals are loutish and rude drunk flatheads unable to woo or satisfy a women (with the underlying allusion that you are exactly the contrary) is showing a lot of self-grandiosity imo.

[QUOTE=PedroToronja; 1376330]Leonardo Di Caprio at 21 can probably get away with anything, say anything, be bad or nice, money or no money will always get pussy anywhere. From there to, lets say. Me, there is a huge distance; and then there is everything in between. So regarding what works or not, it is hard to set a rule. And the best battle plan become worthless at the sound of the first shot: the enemy has a vote too: a lot depends on your target.

We can though describe what is commonplace in those lands: men suck, women are not happy with them. I know of many UA a girls who refuse outright to date Russian / ukrainian men: they grew frustrated with them and they won't put up with the abuse. By acting like them, most of us are probably getting the same results those guys get: some (probably the best) girls will simply not date / fuck us. There is a huge difference, generally speaking, between men and women in the Slavic world: men suck, women are adorable, better educated, nice, take care of themselves, less drunken and better workers. Those women do not put up with rude, inconsiderate men of any nationality.

I know well, as friends and employees, many educated girls in UA (I don't mix my business with my mongering) and I know them for many years. They simply don't go for the 'bad' guy you describe. Sure, some don't date for years, but many are married to good guys that treat them nicely, because even there some are lucky enough to find real nice guys (minority, but they exists).[/QUOTE]I agree with you Pedro. But I think that women all over the world like the "bad boy." They may not want to marry them, or even have a relationship with them, but they want them in their bed-or they think they do. I don't think Prosal is recommending you act like a UA schmuck, but spontaneous, rough, and dominating is not treating them poorly. It also seems to me that women want what is challenging. If you fawn over them, they become less interested. A big part of this is obviously confidence. Personally, I cannot pull "bad boy" off completely. It sounds as if you don't think you can either. But it does sound like you can do the confidence thing. It is basically the same. We just manifest it in a different way.

I am sure the women that work for you would love to fuck you. You are the boss and you apparently are not interested in them. It must drive them crazy. That is one of the fundamentals of the game-be confident and disinterested.

[QUOTE=YummyPL;1376435]I agree with you Pedro. But I think that women all over the world like the "bad boy." They may not want to marry them, or even have a relationship with them, but they want them in their bed-or they think they do. I don't think Prosal is recommending you act like a UA schmuck, but spontaneous, rough, and dominating is not treating them poorly. It also seems to me that women want what is challenging. If you fawn over them, they become less interested. A big part of this is obviously confidence. Personally, I cannot pull "bad boy" off completely. It sounds as if you don't think you can either. But it does sound like you can do the confidence thing. It is basically the same. We just manifest it in a different way.[/QUOTE]I think the days of "bad boy" attitude has past for most of us on this thread. However, confidence is a universal winner.

[QUOTE=YummyPL;1376435]It also seems to me that women want what is challenging. If you fawn over them, they become less interested.[/QUOTE]Right on the money. Being a girl's one trick pony gets you nowhere in the dating game. Girls like to be chased, but only to a degree (and especially the better-looking who are used to get hitted 20 times a day). They also like to chase a bit too. Don't make it to easy on them, they lose interest if you are too interested. When you don't answer SMSs immediately and dutifully, when you don't desperately pursue dates, when you don't overdote, when you are mischevious and uncompromising, ect, it sparks their interest. Best is to allow the girl to be the "demanding party", and give her the flattering impression that she is somehow special and SHE scored a player.

Anyway, everybody has their own methods and behaviors, and I am happiest and most successful sticking to mine.

[QUOTE=Climaxnow;1376450]I think the days of "bad boy" attitude has past for most of us on this thread. However, confidence is a universal winner.[/QUOTE]Agreed. If I only knew 20 years ago what I know now.

[QUOTE=YummyPL;1376649]Agreed. If I only knew 20 years ago what I know now.[/QUOTE]Being aware that you have to change your frame of mind when dealing with Slavic women is beneficial, whatever your age.

If by bad, you mean you have no game, probably.

[QUOTE=YummyPL; 1375952]31 year old MILF.

Bad boy[/QUOTE]

Umm, as it applies to the Kiev forum, no.

There hasn't been a 100% working girl environment in Kiev since River Palace set sail.

On the other hand.

As a foreigner with no Russian language skills, when you talk to a girl in a nightclub in Kiev she will say one of two things."I am a prostitute" or "I am not a prostitute". YMMV.

[QUOTE=Global Surfer;1376006]Most bars mentioned in this forum are for mongering purpose or put other way glorified brothels. There is no point in asking you to bring a girl in a pickup joint. There are a few bars mentioned here who have substantial civilian population but again no one ever stopped me.[/QUOTE]

No, not really.

[QUOTE=PedroToronja;1376299]IMHO he and I are mostly right.[/QUOTE]As you pointed out, different people like different things.

I will be in Kiev for about 40 days. In that time I will date around 100 different new girls, have sex with about 30 or them while maintaining my carde of 8-10 core girls.

In your 40 trips to Kiev have you dated 100 girls? Probably not.

Are you an expert when it comes to what works for you, of course. Ukrainian or Kiev girls, no, not at all.

[QUOTE=Cruiser D;1376754]If by bad, you mean you have no game, probably.[/QUOTE]Thanks Cruiser D, for proving you are an ass. An attention ***** that comes on a hooker board to make himself feel good by insulting others that have not yet developed the finer skills of picking up hookers in the UA. I'm impressed. I was in Stuttgart in September and fucked 30+ hookers in a month, too. Apparently Kiev is just another kind of brothel with a slightly less obvious game. But you are still just fucking hookers.

[QUOTE=Cruiser D;1376763]As you pointed out, different people like different things. Are you an expert when it comes to what works for you, of course.[/QUOTE]I have been here forever, or so it seems although my recent adventures in the Middle East and elsewhere have also not gone unfulfilled.

100 girls? No sweat. I have never even counted the numbers over the last 15 years or so. Why bother? Lots of great memories and plenty more in the flesh today and tomorrow who are unknowingly waiting in the wings. I am only an expert in my own specific zone of experience.

What has been the case, be it a village girl or a friend of a friend or the latest paid adventure from Mamba is that I have done things as I have seen fit and always in my comfort zone. Have I always succeeded? No. But more often than not, I have ended up very happy, be it here or anywhere else I may have been. The methodology has sometimes changed yet the results have always been fruitful. No regrets at all.

Attitude is everything and most important rule of all here is that whoever you miss out on today is no loss at all. Another will always take her place faster and sooner than you can expect it to happen. If you feel defeated by the first few unsuccessful tries here, then head on home as fast as you can since you have no game. Or, become one of those utter losers who can only connect in seedy third-rate strip clubs that are only for those incompetents who can only grasp the lowest hanging fruit, at best.

The riches here are only those for those who are singularly capable of understanding and grasping them boldly and confidently as they come along.

I am all for people doing what makes them happy and / or staying in their comfort zones.

What annoys me is when this forum becomes a delsional wanker fest with the kings of Kiev going on and on and on about the one or two average or below girls they bagged (and sadly post photos to back it up). Reminds me of the time when I was at River Palace and some kid in the candy store American imparted the sage like advice to me. Just go up and offer them money, they are all hookers. I replied, really? I just thought they were all very friendly.

I know most of the people here are socially inept but do they have to scream it from the roof tops.

Lunch tomorrow, Uke? It will have to be later in the afternoon. I will be in the blissful cocoon of Irish Lad as I once again chase the perfect buzz in Kiev Klubland while avoiding in the closet gay guys, drunk locals and my frustrated fan club of female semi pros.