Vientiane

[QUOTE=Pompetus;1886840]Let's give them more credit than that and let's not give ourselves credit for knowing more than the average man in the street in Vientiane.[/QUOTE]"Relationships with Lao Citizens: Lao law prohibits sexual contact between foreign citizens and Lao nationals except when the two parties have been married in accordance with Lao Family Law. Any foreigner who enters into a sexual relationship with a Lao national risks being interrogated, detained, arrested, or fined. Lao police have confiscated passports and imposed fines of up to 5,000 USD on foreigners who enter into unapproved sexual relationships. The Lao party to the relationship may be jailed without trial. Foreigners are not permitted to invite Lao nationals of the opposite sex to their hotel rooms; police may raid hotel rooms without notice or consent.

If you plan to marry a Lao national, you are required by Lao law to obtain prior permission from the Lao government. The formal application process can take as long as a year. You can obtain information about these requirements from the USA Embassy in Vientiane. The Lao government will not issue a marriage certificate unless the correct procedures are followed. Any attempt to circumvent Lao regulations may result in arrest, imprisonment, a fine of 500–5,000 USD and deportation. If you cohabit with or enter into a close relationship with a Lao national, you may be accused by Lao authorities of entering into an illegal marriage and be subject to these same penalties. If you wish to become engaged to a Lao national, you must also obtain prior permission from the chief of the village where the Lao national resides. Failure to obtain prior permission can result in a fine of 500–5,000 USD. Lao police may impose a large fine on a foreign citizen a few days after he or she holds an engagement ceremony with a Lao citizen based on the suspicion that the couple subsequently had sexual relations out of wedlock."

Straight from the US state department, China and Vietnam I know have a cohabitation law as well and I know it is also enforced on occasion in China. But Laos is a special case and the reason why it gets such a large excerpt on the state departments website. The Lao police cannot easily convict a brothel if two Lao citizens are in a room but a foreigner and a Laos girl is automatically a crime and is a jackpot for the police if the brothel is not protected. That is the reason why information is sparse on Laos and the popular places stay popular and the underground places tay underground in Laos specifically.

[QUOTE=MontanaMonger;1886916]<SNIP> The Lao police cannot easily convict a brothel if two Lao citizens are in a room but a foreigner and a Laos girl is automatically a crime and is a jackpot for the police if the brothel is not protected. That is the reason why information is sparse on Laos and the popular places stay popular and the underground places tay underground in Laos specifically.[/QUOTE]Thanks MM. You just reinforced my earlier post when I said that it it better to keep specific details OFF this open board. I suspect Pompetus is assuming Lao PDR is similar to other mongering destinations when we all know that it's not.

I have discussed law & order issues with massage shop managers and I disagree that Lao LE knows everything about what goes on everywhere, but there is no way any disagreements can be easily resolved either.

Thus my suggestion to be discreet about everything in Lao PDR, and when in doubt, go home alone.

[QUOTE=RedKilt;1887864]Thanks MM. You just reinforced my earlier post when I said that it it better to keep specific details OFF this open board. I suspect Pompetus is assuming Lao PDR is similar to other mongering. Thus my suggestion to be discreet about everything in Lao PDR, and when in doubt, go home alone.[/QUOTE]If the cops in Laos want to pierce the veil of secrecy on the ISG, all they would have to is to impersonate a monger and become a senior member on ISG. They would then be able to get PM's and learn about all those places that Mr. Kilt wants us to be discreet about. Becoming a senior member can be done either by paying money or by making a certain number of posts which would automatically qualify him as a senior. If Laotian police are seriously intent on obtaining info from ISG members because they lack intel of their own, (which is patently absurd) then this would be an obvious plan.

Next, all of you should consult the blog for sillyporean mongers who plainly state info on the internet about farms and other interesting locations around Vientiane.

[QUOTE=MontanaMonger;1886916]"Relationships with Lao Citizens: Lao law prohibits sexual contact between foreign citizens and Lao nationals except when the two parties have been married in accordance with Lao Family Law. Any foreigner who enters into a sexual relationship with a Lao national risks being interrogated, detained, arrested, or fined. Lao police have confiscated passports and imposed fines of up to 5,000 USD on foreigners who enter into unapproved sexual relationships. Etc etc etc.
Straight from the US state department.[/QUOTE]Every couple of years someone on ISG trots out this boilerplate from USDoS. But according to long term expats whom I have canvassed in Laos, this is only rarely enforced and only in those instances when some foreigner has done something egregious like living with three Lao women and fathering children with them.

[QUOTE=MontanaMonger;1886906]Your post may not be entirely true, the reason being LE is always looking for the most viable and known establishments and keep an eye on them if a smaller proprietor is introduced to the general public it becomes somewhat of a problem, the advent of a new proprietor that is catering to foreigners may or may not pay for the luxury of entertaining foreigners and taking away business from one of the better known proprietors which can be run by generals or other extremely connected individuals. So yes LE is well aware of all of these establishments in fact they are in a lot of cases run by LE, however they need to know if foreigners are frequenting establishments that are not kicking up large enough bribes or are not connected to the LE itself. So if a local connected to one of the mafia run establishments has a tip on another place frequented by foreigners and this site confirms that information it could then be used to strengthen the mafia monopoly via legal or not so legal means. You seem to post in the Philippines but Phils and Laos are two different animals entirely. In Laos the only thing that matters is foreigner perception of propriety do a search for Laos Porn and Philippines girl porn. You have a lot to learn about mongering in such destinations. You have some grave misconceptions of how and why LE does and doesn't act on some brothels. Red Kilt's reticence is warranted in in this case.[/QUOTE]Would you please advise the source of your knowledge? Quite frankly, what you have posted appears to be complete speculation: Laotian mafia, and stating authoritatively that they receive tips and verify them by consulting ISG. Let's get real. As far as establishing my experience in SE Asia, all you have relied on is the scope of my posts on ISG. How can you base your conclusions about where I have been and what I have done based on that? If that is the quality of your research on me then it speaks reams about the reliability of what you have posted regarding the reliability of your posts on Laos.

[QUOTE=Pompetus;1888705]If the cops in Laos want to pierce the veil of secrecy on the ISG, all they would have to is to impersonate a monger and become a senior member on ISG. They would then be able to get PM's and learn about all those places that Mr. Kilt wants us to be discreet about. Becoming a senior member can be done either by paying money or by making a certain number of posts which would automatically qualify him as a senior. If Laotian police are seriously intent on obtaining info from ISG members because they lack intel of their own, (which is patently absurd) then this would be an obvious plan.
[/QUOTE]Interestingly enough Mr Pomp I know a member of the NBI Philippines who happens to be a lurking member on ISG.

No need to be a senior member. He can log in here and read all posts and pick up all sorts of tid-bits of information.

Some guys make it easy for LE by going into detail.

No one is suggesting ISG is a "prime" source of information for LE but some people try very hard to incriminate themselves and others by documenting way too much information.

[QUOTE=RedKilt;1888745]Interestingly enough Mr Pomp I know a member of the NBI Philippines who happens to be a lurking member on ISG.

No need to be a senior member. He can log in here and read all posts and pick up all sorts of tid-bits of information.

Some guys make it easy for LE by going into detail.

No one is suggesting ISG is a "prime" source of information for LE but some people try very hard to incriminate themselves and others by documenting way too much information.[/QUOTE]The supposed NBI agent was not practicing good tradecraft by informing you that he consults ISG. The rest of your post is more speculation, conjecture. Do you really believe that a foreigner, not speaking the language and in country for only a couple of weeks at the most, is more knowledgeable about the vice in Vientiane than a cop who was born and raised and whose full time job (year in and year out) is to know about illegal activity in their own backyard?

FWIW, I met a cute and attentive Lao lady at one of the many massage places and we exchanged numbers. Although her attention to my needs in the shop always required a tip, she also visited me several times in my hotel and never wanted cash. She also came straight to my room, no WOS or awkward waiting for me at the reception.

I imagine that if a Lao national feels comfortable visiting a farang, in his room, and very clearly outside of wedlock, then perhaps the law is no longer applied so strictly.

YMMV, of course.

[QUOTE=MontanaMonger;1886916]"Relationships with Lao Citizens: Lao law prohibits sexual contact between foreign citizens and Lao nationals except when the two parties have been married in accordance with Lao Family Law. Any foreigner who enters into a sexual relationship with a Lao national risks being interrogated, detained, arrested, or fined. Lao police have confiscated passports and imposed fines of up to 5,000 USD on foreigners who enter into unapproved sexual relationships. The Lao party to the relationship may be jailed without trial. Foreigners are not permitted to invite Lao nationals of the opposite sex to their hotel rooms; police may raid hotel rooms without notice or consent.

If you plan to marry a Lao national, you are required by Lao law to obtain prior permission from the Lao government. The formal application process can take as long as a year. You can obtain information about these requirements from the USA Embassy in Vientiane. The Lao government will not issue a marriage certificate unless the correct procedures are followed. Any attempt to circumvent Lao regulations may result in arrest, imprisonment, a fine of 5005,000 USD and deportation. If you cohabit with or enter into a close relationship with a Lao national, you may be accused by Lao authorities of entering into an illegal marriage and be subject to these same penalties. If you wish to become engaged to a Lao national, you must also obtain prior permission from the chief of the village where the Lao national resides. Failure to obtain prior permission can result in a fine of 5005,000 USD. Lao police may impose a large fine on a foreign citizen a few days after he or she holds an engagement ceremony with a Lao citizen based on the suspicion that the couple subsequently had sexual relations out of wedlock."

Straight from the US state department, China and Vietnam I know have a cohabitation law as well and I know it is also enforced on occasion in China. But Laos is a special case and the reason why it gets such a large excerpt on the state departments website. The Lao police cannot easily convict a brothel if two Lao citizens are in a room but a foreigner and a Laos girl is automatically a crime and is a jackpot for the police if the brothel is not protected. That is the reason why information is sparse on Laos and the popular places stay popular and the underground places tay underground in Laos specifically.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Chacal60;1961229]FWIW, I met a cute and attentive Lao lady at one of the many massage places and we exchanged numbers. Although her attention to my needs in the shop always required a tip, she also visited me several times in my hotel and never wanted cash. She also came straight to my room, no WOS or awkward waiting for me at the reception.

I imagine that if a Lao national feels comfortable visiting a farang, in his room, and very clearly outside of wedlock, then perhaps the law is no longer applied so strictly.[/QUOTE]It's an outdated post from MM but your views still hold.

As each month passes and Laos becomes more connected internationally, there is less of a problem about the "old laws", but you should still be careful.

[QUOTE=RedKilt;1961246]It's an outdated post from MM but your views still hold.

As each month passes and Laos becomes more connected internationally, there is less of a problem about the "old laws", but you should still be careful.[/QUOTE]Hotels are more willing these times to allow guests. Of course sometimes you need to give the owner a little tip to help bring in the girl.

I have not had a problem bringing girls back for the last 2-3 years. Of course I am not staying at 5-star hotels.

Good points. My digs were most definitely not 5 star, 3 star at best and that was only after they switched me out of the room that had a whiff of sewage in the bathroom. Given that my lady visitor was allowed in without care or fanfare made up for the initial inconvenience.

[QUOTE=Tundish;1962026]Hotels are more willing these times to allow guests. Of course sometimes you need to give the owner a little tip to help bring in the girl.

I have not had a problem bringing girls back for the last 2-3 years. Of course I am not staying at 5-star hotels.[/QUOTE]

I just finished my second long stay of the year. This time for 60 days. One visa on arrival plus one 30 days extension. Extension price the same $2 a day. Can do it easily yourself at Vientiane immigration or give it to travel agent to run for you $10-15 service. Spending a longer time here, I easily made quite a few regulars, most of them non pro or very semi working, I feel better and better with repeated meetings. So did not venture new grounds too much this trip. But did find more and more new suburban Lao and Viet joints of all kinds of formats, karaoke, massage, restaurants, hair salon or old style brothels.

But during this trip, I actually enjoyed a tourist trap that I avoided before. The Vientiane Plaza spa had brought in a few nice young providers. I tried 4 of them during my 60 day stay, and all very consistent in service and attitude. The system is very easy for newbie. You pick a massage package and pick a lady, as for me I always pick 60 min 130,000 kip. The play fee is negotiable. But they will quote you about 400,000. You can try bargain down to 300,000 or 350,000.

I will check out this place again next trip after new year for my next long stay. This place definitely very easy for Lao newbies.

[QUOTE=ShinShin;1971115] I actually enjoyed a tourist trap that I avoided before. The Vientiane Plaza spa had brought in a few nice young providers. I tried 4 of them during my 60 day stay, and all very consistent in service and attitude. The system is very easy for newbie. You pick a massage package and pick a lady, as for me I always pick 60 min 130,000 kip. The play fee is negotiable. But they will quote you about 400,000. You can try bargain down to 300,000 or 350,000.

I will check out this place again next trip after new year for my next long stay. This place definitely very easy for Lao newbies.[/QUOTE]Thanks for the update Shin.

I have previously reviewed this place here and it seems like it is "business as usual", but with some new providers. I agree that it is simple and straightforward.

If you go during the day you might find only 2 or 3 girls are lying around in the lobby (no fish bowl functioning) and they tend to rotate in turn.

If you don't like the girl assigned to you tell the guy checking you in and select another one.

In the evening there are more girls to choose from.

Besides all these joints along Kampengmueang, I also found more and more joints along Sithong Road. I rented a car half the time so I drove around very often. I counted there must be at least over 40 joints of different setup all along the Kampengmueng road all the way 10 kilos south of the center. I still enjoy these restaurant joints. They open early afternoon and it's fun to see all these girls lying around sleepy face early afternoon. Drinking a beer while watching them get ready for work. Lots of joints do not have any signs at all. The Chinese lantern, or some flickering lights are some indication. These joints are no longer all locals anymore. I found more and more local expats and adventure minded are venturing out of these tourist areas to the suburbs.

I found many more Lao and Viet joints along Sithong road, must be around 10 of them along the way. Some are in restaurant setup, some are just typical residential house, you have to be observant and a little courageous to go in and ask, watch out for the Chinese lantern or a little pink neon, or some guy standing or sitting outside suspiciously.

One day my regular girl took me to a cafe for dinner near the Thai visa place. I noticed a shop house without any sign with a guy constantly watching the traffic outside. I was pretty sure there is something inside. The next day I drove there and parked the car in front and the guy called out to me. Turned out to be a Viet joint, only a few minute walk from Thai visa place. And found another joint further down the road as well. All these Viet joints all over town are still good value at 150000 to 200000. They will definitely quote you more but use my number as guideline. Viets are good service oriented. Most of my Viet sessions were at least above average.

There are also quite a few joints that I previously never knew on Asean Road and there a street that connect to Sithong Road that I do not know the name where Mitsubishi dealer is, I found 2 quite large shops that looks like a Chinese massage, sign in Chinese with Chinese lanterns. I was curious so I went in to see what they have. I was right, they offer special as well. I definitely think Vientiane is by no way less convenient than Bangkok or Phnom Penh for a quickie.

I will be back soon after new year for maybe even a longer stay.

I had my local lady visit me at my upscale hotel, came straight to my room with no hold up by reception. However, the phone rang in my room at 10 pm and reception asked to speak with her. I thought uh oh, this could go bad.

They just wanted her to hand in her ID if she was staying the night, but I told her we should wrap things up and she finished me off, gathered her things and was out the door by 10:20.

Sure enough, on checkout I noticed a small sign at reception saying "no visitors after 10 pm". So, book them early for room service, but otherwise an overnight is acceptable as long as IDs are shared.

And once again no charge by her.

[QUOTE=Tundish;1962026]Hotels are more willing these times to allow guests. Of course sometimes you need to give the owner a little tip to help bring in the girl.

I have not had a problem bringing girls back for the last 2-3 years. Of course I am not staying at 5-star hotels.[/QUOTE]

Hi,

Been a while since I was in Vientiane. Could someone give an update on the Mekong Hotel action downstairs? It used to be mostly Thai guys, but I guess now it is mostly Chinese. I recall there was the dark 'club' one enters at street level then the brightly lit room with the many girls sitting there watching TV entered through another door inside. Is that still the same? Also, are ST rooms available there. Or is proper check-in required? I recall there was an ST place a short motocy ride away. (I RTF but couldn't find anything recent. So thanks).

[QUOTE=RonnieMonger;1981351]Hi,

Been a while since I was in Vientiane. Could someone give an update on the Mekong Hotel action downstairs? It used to be mostly Thai guys, but I guess now it is mostly Chinese. I recall there was the dark 'club' one enters at street level then the brightly lit room with the many girls sitting there watching TV entered through another door inside. Is that still the same? Also, are ST rooms available there. Or is proper check-in required? I recall there was an ST place a short motocy ride away. (I RTF but couldn't find anything recent. So thanks).[/QUOTE]I am back in Laos. Really couldn't wait to get back. I am preparing a long road trip with a rental Toyota 4 wheel drive all the way to Muang Singh on China border in a few days with a Myanmar nightlife pro who came to join me for this road trip. I went Muang Singh last trip and it has plenty of action. Lots of fun.

About Mekong karaoke. It is no longer like a few years ago. It still has quite a number of girls, nowadays mostly older girls and many have been there many years, the last few visits I never saw anything worth the value. You probably have to get a few LDs and change a few girls to get what you like, it's hard to get under 1500 bahts ST unless you regular local customers, some girl only want to go ST room nearby, that's another 300 bahts, some girls may go your room even take you on her motorbike, but that's up to the girl, so overall plus all the karaoke drinks, you are very likely pay over 2500 bahts for an hour ST. To me it's very bad value.

Vientiane Plaza sauna still has a few nice ones. I just went there 2 days ago, 2200 bahts in all. It is a tourist joint, but it is quite reliable recently.