Seeking Arrangements

Moneysign. Wow, so many questions I like it that while asking your questions, you wrote up your own synopsis of the thread reports. Good job.

I have used SecretBenefit and Sugardaddie. I liked the quality, quantity, and pricing structure of SA the most and have stayed with them for the most amount of time. Occasionally I have delayed renewal when my 3 month subscription ran out, but have always come back inside a few weeks. I don't like the SecretBenefit fee structure, and have felt that the quality was lacking and the good ones were already known to me through SA. Keep in mind that many girls may register on multiple sites. The benefits of being on multiple sites for them is obvious but for the guys it is deminimus as we will end up paying subscription fee many times over and yet will not see a vastly increased selection.

Also, sugar babe economics are vastly different from an FKK club. I prefer FKKs with 200 pretty girls. It is a place to take 25 fuck sessions in a week vacation, cum 15 times and do a lot of 50 Euro sessions. When you were a kid and went to the candy store, you probably wanted to bite a piece of each type of candy. That is what an FKK is for me. Sample as many sluts as possible. Sugar babe sites are different. A large amount of work goes into it before you ever get to fuck a girl. There are endless number of clicks through sites, texting back and forth (with those who reply back — more than 50% of the girls never reply back to your initial text, because they are receiving literally 100 messages a day, promising the moon and stars from a lot of guys, probably many guys are fakes and cheats themselves), eventually agreeing to meet for some sort of get to know type drink / lunch, and if you can come to a good agreement then the fuck. If you are single, you may host her her at your place, she *may* host you at her place, or else you have to rent a hotel (for married guys, hotel is the only option unless you have some kinda open marriage). BTW, many girls are indeed flakes. Even after you agree on the details and you agree to meet at the hotel, and you rent a room and text her the room number, she may get cold feet and drop out at the last minute and you have paid room rent for nothing, plus wasted a large amount of time. This sort of thing does not happen with a girl you are repeating, but a first time fuck is never a guaranteed thing until you have your dick in her pussy. This is an advantage of FKK over sugar babe stuff, there is no chance you will not fuck a girl after you both agreed to the terms.

In general, sugar babe logistics are definitely more complicated if you are married. I have freely admitted I am married. I will not give away my secrets how I manage this side of my life, nor will I tell you how I sneak away to FKKs for weeks in a year. I have zero intention of my comfy life falling apart because I am too forthcoming on this site; logistics are definitely easier to plan if you are single. You may have more money available to pay for fuck activity in general. You may also not care about your identity disclosure, but that is for each person to decide. Girls blackmailing you for child support or other stuff is a risk, a SMALL risk but A risk in my view, but if she does not know your identity she does not have this option. So that is one reason to keep it a secret, to the extent possible. BTW, I fucked only *a few*girls bareback, not all of them.

Girls will turn you down, because this is an arrangement, not a brothel. These girls are not prostitutes, cannot emphasize that enough. There may be a few prostitutes on these sites, but most of the girls are not. If I had to do a breakdown, I would say 20% of the girls are absolute scam artists who Are on the site just to scam some easy money from first timers and gullible men, 20% to 30% are girls who will not meet and want to sell pictures and videos for money, 10% to 20% may be girls who are willing to meet but will be only platonic initially or forever, and the rest are willing to have sex. But even among the girls who are willing to fuck, they will be choosy because they can afford to be. Many guys are chasing them, especially the more attractive ones. BTW, these percentages are based on my own approaches to the girls and I only approach girls with specific characteristics (age 25, white / Fair skinned Latino, slim bodies, pretty face, no excessive tats). I don't know what those percentages would be if I relaxed my specs.

You need to decide how much you want to spend per month or in total and then have a plan. Can you host her for the fuck session whenever that happens? (Some girls may prefer the first fuck session to be in a hotel because you might turn out to be psycho in bed). If your budget is a couple of grand a month, you can reasonably expect 4 to 6 sessions in a month. Obviously, not having to pay for hotel rent will save you $50 to $150 per rental. Where will you do your first time meet and greet? If you have to take her to expensive dinners, that activity itself will set you back several hundred dollars a month. Some guys try to impress girls with how much wealth they have and take the girls to very high end diners or concerts etc (typically the ones who are not that well off are the ones trying to impress the most. I know this because when I was younger and had less money, I wanted to impress people. Now, I have a lot more and don't give a fuck what people think of me and my spending habits because I feel secure in my own skin now).

If you are going to be happy with a single girl in a regular / long term arrangement, you can stretch your budget. I have received offers from young college pretty girls who asked for $1000 to $1200 per month and in return they would meet once or twice a week. Some are willing to host. If you can find two such girls, you can stretch your budget and have 2 to 3 fuck sessions a week and still come under $2 K to $2. 5 K a month. You can see why this makes sense to a college girl. If she finds you reasonably attractive, you are effectively paying her room rent and some spending money and in return she has her own sexual needs taken care of. Not a bad choice, as she may have been fucking an immature classmate who may also be a fat slob and makes her pay for his lunch. Seen from the eyes of a college girl, a 40 year old guy who is in shape and has good manners and some worldly success and money to spend is a good fuck buddy, and the money you give is icing on the cake.

A lot of this obviously depends on where you live. Kansas City is less expensive than SF or Boston. If you are lucky enough to make $300 K annually and are single in Kansas City, yes you can have a lot of fun.

[QUOTE=MoneySign;2445297]I've been following and gathering info from this thread for many weeks as I've been learning the ropes of SA. I have also read some reviews about other sites like Sugardaddie, SecretBenefit and WhatsYourPrice. I think WYP and SA are owned by the same owner. Has any of you tried those ones out? SA seems to be the most expensive one.

I'm a newbie to this kind of arrangement thing. My understanding is that getting into a relationship with a babe on SA is kind of like renting a GF for lack of better words. Right? As I read it somewhere, in an ideal arrangement, you and your date would be like in a real GF / BF relationship only when you're together. When you're apart, you live separate lives and respect each other privacy. It's like she's playing a GF role when you two spend time together. Is that how you characterize it?

With that in mind, when you're having fun together with your SA 'GF', wouldn't you intimately involved in DFK, BBBJ, even bb in everything as if you're in a real romantic relationship? Yes? That would be a great incentive of finding someone from SA as if she's your 'exclusive' GF that you can do bb with. Otherwise, it would be better off to find an escort or visit FKK clubs. Do you see it that way? Have you guys been with an SA girl who would not allow DFK or bb all the way?



I'm curious if you made sure that she's on some kind of birth control or asked her to take the morning after pills or something. Otherwise, wouldn't you worry that if she ends up getting pregnant, she would go after you for child support? As you may have followed the news, Hunter Biden got sued for child support by a stripper because he got her pregnant.

Did you imply that if a guy is unattractive or below average look, he would have no luck on SA with a young college hottie even if he is highly successful with a lot of cash laying around? That would suck. In an FKK, you can be a fat slob and can still fuck a 8 or above. It's not like that on SA? I thought the SA ladies have an implicit understanding (without saying or admitting) that they exchange intimacy for gift $. No?



I understand perfectly that if you're married or in a committed relationship, you want to keep your SA activities secret. I got that. On the other hand, if you're not married, single without dependents, not in any kind of relationship, and not famous, what's the down side of letting your SA girls know who you are? In that case, why would you be so paranoid about that? Are you afraid of being judged or being robbed? I assume you would never bring her home, and she would not know where you live anyway. Am I too naive? Regarding to LinkedIn, you can disable profile view for any member who is not within your network. You have control over that.

If your coworkers recognize you on SA, then they can be just as guilty or embarrassed (or whatever adjective you have in mind) as you're by being on that site to begin with. Agree? You may be stigmatized, judged, or embarrassed for being on SA by them just as much as they would be by you since you're all on the same site. It goes both way. Doesn't it? Just like the old saying goes, don't throw stones when you live in a glass house. That's how I see it.

That made me wonder. You mean white girls in that age range are mostly faked or have higher expectation, demand, or requirement? Would it be very likely that these girls select their potential SDs based on certain physical attributes such as age, ethnicity, height, look, but NOT just based on the SD's spending power which is the whole concept of SA? It's pretty much a two way street sort of thing. Right? If the ladies are that selective because they get too many messages, that tells me that there are more men than women on SA which is opposite from what SA has advertised for. What's your observation?



I can not imagine any intelligent college educated girl would go to the room upon first meet. If she is truly a regular girl and not a hardened pro, I just can not believe she would go to the room with a guy whom she just met on the first date regardless of how the chemistry turns out to be. A decent girl would not just do that. I have a feeling that some SA ladies are probably escorts. In fact, I believe even more that many are probably professional SBs who use the SA site for making money as an ongoing part-time job to supplement their incomes. They're technically not escorts per se, but they are professional SBs. There is a slight distinction here. Wouldn't you agree?

Come on dude! You can not possibly believe those net worth. LOL. I'll take it with a grain of salt. I bet most college educated girls won't take that literally either. When I sign up, I'll probably post my net worth as if I'm a millionaire even though I'm not. LOL.[/QUOTE]Here are a few of my thoughts on these topics with around 20 SA girls:

Bareback with SA girls. No I don't think this is likely. At least any girl I want to see is smart and not desperate. Not going to risk it. Had it once in the heat of the moment but we agreed she'the take morning after pill. But yes absolutely DFK and BBBJ would be standard.

Birth Control. This is why I don't bareback. Not worried about diseases. These are low volume girls (again the ones I choose) but fuck who wants a girl to get pregnant. Like you say could ruin your life or her life or both. No chance I am risking this.

Personal Attractiveness. Clearly if you just get a hooker on SA it doesn't matter. But if you are playing the non pros it does. I'm pretty reasonable looking and fit for my age. But I have had girls ghost me after sending a pic. And clearly at dinner they will decide if they are going to the room with you. I want to be sure that goes my way.

SNL (single night lay) — You are talkings from a different generation when you say nice girls don't have sex on the first date with strangers. Girls in 20-25 bracket do it all the time. NICE GIRLS! Of my 20 this past year only 1 was a straight up pro. 4-5 were strippers and therefore semi-pro. And the remainder were just nice girls in or just out of college. All these were dinner and drinks and then sex on a single night date. I promise these are nice girls with real jobs (most are out of work now tho).

Responsiveness. I have no problem getting responses from 21-25 year olds which is my sweet spot. I don't really go for white girls often — Latina and Asian is my thing. But it's all about how you engage them. Chat them up. Get to know them. Always end with a question to keep the dialog going etc.

Money. I am sure guys lie about money both directions. I cut my net worth in half. LOL.

So I have been using SA for about 3 years or so and I've used it mostly in Europe. Obviously YMMV, but having tried it in US and Europe, I prefer the EU scene much more! The bitches in the US (Denver and Phoenix mostly) seemed to have an elitist attitude concerning the whole exchange. I tried things locally in the US after using SA primarily (and successfully) in Prague, Berlin, London, Ukraine, and Vienna. This definitely turned me off to SA in the US. I'm one of those guys that has choices on SA. 80-90% of the girls I write will write me back. Therefore, I don't mind blocking a ***** if she comes off too strong and too demanding. The dynamic of the relationship has to be set from the very beginning. Be cool, but let the women know that they are dealing with someone level-headed, not desperate, or a pushover. I was talking to a girl in Denver and we seemed to be getting along. She wanted to meet for lunch and she seemed "into it", like I would probably be banging her that night. We agreed on time and place. In my mind, we would meet there. Simple stuff. She wrote me a text saying, "Hey, call me an uber at 12:30, so I can be there by 1". This is the very beginning of our relationship, you ask questions, not make demands. Blocked her and banged another SA chick that night instead.

You guys have stated plenty of facts, so I won't add to your great descriptions. The one thing I will say to anyone out there using SA is to leave your desperation at home. If you are using SA, then you have the funds to afford it, and therefore are not counted among the guys looking for 30 min sessions for 50 euros (nothing wrong with it. I've done those too. Just not my pref). I bring this up as a reminder that we all influence the market. If you are super generous and you would like to pay this SA girl $100 just to meet for coffee (no bang, just coffee), don't do it! I've seen more and more girls asking for money simply for the initial meet and greet. Who the fuck is paying these girls just to have the pleasure of dining or drinking with them?? Most are scams, but the fact is that this works on some less experienced or desperate mongers. So mongers, please do your research on the city you choose and let's keep prices from getting out of hand. I once had a girl in Hamburg tell me she wanted 700 euro per meet. I laughed and told her that she was probably new and had bad expectations. I then told her that I don't pay more than 300 - 350 for the first meet (paid after banging her brains at the end of the night or next morning. Never before). She agreed and everything went well, fucked her, recorded the session for later playback and even came in her mouth. She cut her rate by 50%. There are some more experienced girls that won't change their ask, so for them take it or leave it. In their case, they are probably a pro and you don't' want them anyway.

AO = hell no! I love AO just like the next guy, but for me, the risk is too high. I had a SB in London that I was banging about 3 times a month when I would come to town. She was in college, didn't' really want money, and preferred gifts instead. Everything worked out. Our first meet, I didn't have any condoms (rookie mistake) and she literally said to me, "I mean, I'm clean. So, it's OK. " She said these beautiful words out of a mouth that just removed itself from my dick and she was beautiful with long hair black hair, big firm tits, skinny! Man, I miss her. Hahahah. I digress. I chose not to and she spent the night and just gave me blowjobs all night. After banging her for a couple of months, giving her a few gifts, sending flowers, and just dining out (total over 3 months /8-9 meetings was about 1500) having a great time, she calls me one day and tells me to get tested because she found that someone gave her a nice little gift and she was afraid that she may have wrapped it up and gave it to me. Luckily, every session was wrapped up. BBBJ, but always CFS. This situation was enough for me to stay rigid when it comes to covered vs not covered. To each his own though.

BBBJ. Yes, you should be getting that with an SB!

Ball licking. Yes! You should be getting that with an SB!

DFK. Yes! You should definitely be getting this with an SB!

Going out. Yes! (I bring this up because I had a girl in London that only wanted ot meet at the Hotel. She said that she grew up in London and didn't want to run into anyone. 9 M people and they all know her. LOL).

Showers. Yes!

Anal. YMMV.

Submission. YMMV.

Multiple pops. Yes!

CIM. YES.

CIF. Maybe (YMMV).

If you are not getting the above, excluding YMMV, then you should get rid of the pro that you have, because she is not a SB.

Just my. 02. I just found this thread, so it's nice to see other mongers' experiences.

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2444778]Steve and Jimmy Boy, thanks for the enlightenment. Speaking of AO, that's another benefit of SA, IMHO. Since these gals are not pros, the risks associated with AO are less, especially if you and your SB are exclusive, which is what I often aim for. Incidentally, I have discovered that more gals are willing to do AO after these lockdowns. Well, that's been true in Shanghai, where things are almost back to normal. Some MP gals are even willing to do AO at their shops, because they are desperate for money. I am torn about this, of course. I know that no pussy is worth the risk, but I just love the feeling of AO and it's hard to go back to covered if one has been doing AO on occasion.[/QUOTE]I happened to have a couple of AO full services with WGs here in Germany in the past. By the way, I didn't ask for it nor did the ladies charge me extra fees for the service. It's just happened like that.

All in all, I would no longer trade off a few minutes of bareback sex with all that can potentially come with it. I was also very nervous the subsequent days, and I've promised myself to think with my brain not with my johnson.

With that being said, I'm not 100% sure that freebies and, especially, SB/semi-pros are necessarily safer. Of course, statistically it's easier to catch something from a WG who takes 5+ d*cks per day than freebies or semi-pros. However, so far I got a - luckily not serious and easily treatable - STD from a freebie years ago. Moreover, my guess is that the average semi-pro is more likely to have AO sex with multiple men than the average WG. I guess this a risk that to some extent one has to take into account with this lifestyle.

My 2 cents, ofc.

90 percent of the girls on there under 25 wanted bareback CIM or cig also had anal from 2 who wanted to try these are girls trying to make you fall in love with them they think if you getting it raw from them your hooked now every girl over 27 wanted protection from me but all BBBJCIM I make sure they legit girls not escorts usually after a conversation you can tell what they are.

Clearly LshRoomer is an experienced SD and that's good info. I totally agree with your list of standard vs YMMV services. Pretty much spot on with my experience. I have to say it's a pleasant surprise but yes Ball Licking and Sucking from pretty much every SB. Not like where tons of pros say they don't do that or it’s extra.

Also get not only CIM but swallow from quite a few. Love that. And sleepover from a few also.

It's really sooooo much better than an escort when it's done right.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2445533]Clearly LshRoomer is an experienced SD and that's good info. I totally agree with your list of standard vs YMMV services. Pretty much spot on with my experience. I have to say it's a pleasant surprise but yes Ball Licking and Sucking from pretty much every SB. Not like where tons of pros say they don't do that or its extra.

Also get not only CIM but swallow from quite a few. Love that. And sleepover from a few also.

It's really sooooo much better than an escort when it's done right.[/QUOTE]Steve 9696,

Spoken like a true professional. I was doing the escort thing for a while, trying all types. I tried the 30 min girls, the "high class" escorts, the massage parlor girls, the 1 hour escorts, the cheap outcall escorts and I found that the experience varied too widely. It was too impersonal and one ***** actually tried to upsell me kissing. That's ridiculous. First I'd probably not kiss a girl with high mileage and second, I def wouldn't pay for it. LOL. While on the Prague thread a few years ago, I was introduced to "sponsoring" as the monger called it and from there, everything changed. The better escort experiences, for me, were with longer sessions (2+ hours). The 1 hour or 30 min sessions were too impersonal and just didn't' "feel" right. The escorts were rigid, sometimes barely talked, too mechanical, wanted to wrap everything, and just didn't' produce a good experience for me. Some would ask for extra for CIF, then completely destroy experience (by reaction). So this made me curb my hobby frequency. After trying SA for the first time, I saw that it was a different ballgame. Long sessions; they already know what you look like and vice versa (so no weird preference issues); I have never had a bait and switch but I'm sure it has happened to someone out there. The girls are more free to have a good time and "clock watching" are words in another language that these girls gladly haven't been taught. I know a lot of guys in the Prague thread like the Privats, which are nice. They don't' really use SA, however, if you compare price, a privat girl is 60/ HR and she is fucking a lot (a lot) of guys that day. An SB will want about 300/350 for 6 hours to overnight and more than likely, you are the only guy she banged that day. If you chilled with her from 8 until 2 (normal for me), that's approximately 50/ HR, which is cheaper than a privat girl and you have the added benefit of chatting with her before you meet in order to determine if you like her personality, if her English is good enough for social situations (drinks for an hour), determine what she likes to do (I usually like to smoke shisha and it's good know if the girl is into it), and to generally get a feel for her vibe. In my opinion, this makes the bang so much better, as there is another component besides her physical attraction that you can add to your blood flow. LOL. You'll know if she likes to have her hair pulled, of if she is into some crazy shit. An escort may have the service available, but unless you get to know her, it may be difficult to know what she actually 'likes' to do.

In the end, if you are going to be in this hobby, you have to keep your options open (I think). I met 2 escorts in Prague that I like and I usually hit them up or they hit me up when I'm in town. They were super cool during our first session and now, it's more seamless to be together. I don't' even know their rates. LOL. Bc we go to dinner and / or drinks then back to my hotel / airbnb to finish the night off (usually 3-5 hours total). Usually when I ask, "how much do you need? I get numbers around 150 - 300 (never more), so in the end, I'm getting an average rate of about 50/ HR, which I know is about a third of what the escorts charge in Prague for a single hour.

With that being said, yes, SA is waaaaay better. When I travel to EU, I usually hit up a regular (depending on the city) or I'm on a mission to find a new SB. At this point, I have to renew my roster, so I'm waiting for COVID to be over in order to meet some new regulars.

Just my. 02.

Safe Mongering guys.

Great discussions and intel in this thread. Agree with Steven that if it's done right, then SA is great. In a nutshell, you get all the great parts of having a GF and none of the bad parts, IF it's done right. But if you usually have to shell out some money for it, and it takes a LOT of time to find the good SBs and the right arrangements.

[QUOTE=LshRoomer;2445481]So I have been using SA for about 3 years or so and I've used it mostly in Europe. Obviously YMMV, but having tried it in US and Europe, I prefer the EU scene much more! The bitches in the US (Denver and Phoenix mostly) seemed to have an elitist attitude concerning the whole exchange. I tried things locally in the US after using SA primarily (and successfully) in Prague, Berlin, London, Ukraine, and Vienna. This definitely turned me off to SA in the US. I'm one of those guys that has choices on SA. 80-90% of the girls I write will write me back. Therefore, I don't mind blocking a ***** if she comes off too strong and too demanding. The dynamic of the relationship has to be set from the very beginning. Be cool, but let the women know that they are dealing with someone level-headed, not desperate, or a pushover. I was talking to a girl in Denver and we seemed to be getting along. She wanted to meet for lunch and she seemed "into it", like I would probably be banging her that night. We agreed on time and place. In my mind, we would meet there. Simple stuff. She wrote me a text saying, "Hey, call me an uber at 12:30, so I can be there by 1". This is the very beginning of our relationship, you ask questions, not make demands. Blocked her and banged another SA chick that night instead..[/QUOTE]Hi,

Very nice report. Thank you. One of the senior members here, BFsie, lives in Germany and is a long time user of sugar babe sites in that country from the FKK threads. Not sure if he uses SA or other sites. I have used SA in DE only in the recent past and not very much. First, if I am in DE, my focus is on trying to attend FKks as much as possible. Even if I am within 60 to 90 miles of Hessen and NRW clubs, I will make every attempt to attend the club in the evenings. However, Artemis has declined in the recent years and that gave me a chance to use SA a couple of times.

You are right about your observation that the number of girls in the US asking for money upfront is obscenely high. Uber is one thing, many girls ask, no make it demand, $100 just to have initial meet and greet dinner. "You need to prove to me that you are not a fake or fraud" is their line. Wtf. Suppose I am a fake. Then, being a fake of course I would not give any cash upfront. Suppose I am not a fake. Then, why the fuck do I need to prove that I am not a fake, since that is something I already know. Some body should slap some sense into these fucking girls.

That said, again as I said in many posts, with patience and a lot of due diligence, it is very easily possible to get sessions in the $200 to $300 range in the US depending on where you are. These days girls are desperate and if I was willing to ignore social distancing rules, I could easily obtain sessions with quite pretty girls for $200 or even a bit less based on how the dialog is going in the last few weeks.

It seems you are able to obtain good value in London. That has not been my experience; However I tried just a couple of times. I don't go to London that often. Perhaps I should give it a real try on my next visit.

[QUOTE=Pessimist;2445548]Hi,

Very nice report. Thank you. One of the senior members here, BFsie, lives in Germany and is a long time user of sugar babe sites in that country from the FKK threads. Not sure if he uses SA or other sites. I have used SA in DE only in the recent past and not very much. First, if I am in DE, my focus is on trying to attend FKks as much as possible. Even if I am within 60 to 90 miles of Hessen and NRW clubs, I will make every attempt to attend the club in the evenings. However, Artemis has declined in the recent years and that gave me a chance to use SA a couple of times.

You are right about your observation that the number of girls in the US asking for money upfront is obscenely high. Uber is one thing, many girls ask, no make it demand, $100 just to have initial meet and greet dinner. "You need to prove to me that you are not a fake or fraud" is their line. Wtf. Suppose I am a fake. Then, being a fake of course I would not give any cash upfront. Suppose I am not a fake. Then, why the fuck do I need to prove that I am not a fake, since that is something I already know. Some body should slap some sense into these fucking girls.[/QUOTE]Pessimist,

I've actually never been to an FKK. I've been to showpark in Prague, but not a proper German FKK. The experience does appeal to me, but every time I consider going, the thought comes to mind that I'll be having a drink, see a nice looking girl, chat her up for a bit, then head back to bang her based on her menu of offerings. Based on the day, I may have to wait until 2 or 3 other guys are done with her first LOL! Even still, the thought of FKK does pique my curiosity. I may just go next time I'm in Germany just to cross it off the list. Are there any FKKs that you guys recommend (forgive me for the question, I do realize I'm in the SA thread)?

I'm glad that I'm not the only one noticing the practice of asking $$ just for a quick coffee. That's why in my first post, I pleaded with my fellow mongers to not give into this piss poor practice. Without us, these girls would have to take another path. Therefore, we should be the one dictating (or influencing) the price, not them. And for new guys, I say again. Paying to meet her in order to "prove" you are not fake is a big NO NO! Don't do it! Move on! Don't fuck up the market for the rest of us and set bad expectations! As more of us mongers pay these crazy prices ( 500 for a night), we are sending a message that the prices can / should increase. I'm sure we don't want to send that message.

OK. Back to what I was saying. Don't get stuck on one piece of pussy. And never give her the cash at the beginning of your date. Most SBs will not ask you directly for the cash, they expect you to "take care" of them financially after the act is done at the end of the night or the next morning or later in the day, if you see her back to back. I've had girls that I've seen on Thursday, they left Friday morning, then we saw each other again Friday night and that's when I gave them some euros. When I think of paying beforehand (a no no. Bc remember, she is not an escort), it makes me think of one girl in Germany that ended up not going well. On our first date, we had drinks and then retired to my room. While chatting and drinking, she mentioned that she didn't' have a winter coat (this was December like 3 yrs ago). I pulled out 100 right there and told her, "OMG, go buy a jacket". I was free with the $$ bc I was looking to make her a regular and give a quick example of how we should "take care of each other". To me, it's a simple deal. I'll hook you up financially when needed and take you to places that you could never afford, and in exchange, we take care of each other's physical / fantasy needs. - I digress. Anyway, she refused the money. Then after making out a bit, she mentioned that she didn't know if I was "real" and she would only know if I gave her $500 right then, before we bang. LOL. I was thinking with my little head and actually said okay and left the room to find an ATM. Don't laugh guys, I was a bit less experienced at this point. While trying to find an ATM (not easy), it gave me time to think. I'm so glad it took us a while to find one! I changed my mind and told her that I'd be more comfortable with 3 instead of 5. She got upset (rightfully so, I was a dick and changed my mind at the last minute while literally in front of the ATM. Hahahah) and from there the date was over. I called her a cab and checked it off as experience +1. She was a solid 7.5, but the long bright red hair added to her sex appeal and I wanted to see what she could do in bed. Oh well, I saved the cash and had a great time a few days later in London.

Onto London. I can imagine that you could have had mixed results in London. For me, my London girl "chats" have been hit or miss, based on their expectations, and I can see how that would turn someone off with London. However, when chat evolves into a real meeting, I've seen nothing but greatness in London. Girls were always cool, they were willing, not demanding, and able to experiment. Money was never an issue and I had one that I literally never gave $$, just gifts and outings. The funny thing is of all the chicks that I've met in London, none of them were actually from the UK. LOL. So I would say to give it a try, but be patient, to find a good SB. When you find a good one, the $$ exchanges easier; it's not based on when you see her, it's more a flow of benefits. Ahahahaha.

Safe mongering!

All this SA discussion has me missing it. I only used it in the states. But now that I do not see myself in the states any time soon, maybe I will try it in Shanghai. Anyone try SA in China? In Shanghai? If so, can you share your experiences?

[QUOTE=Midwestern;2445774]All this SA discussion has me missing it. I only used it in the states. But now that I do not see myself in the states any time soon, maybe I will try it in Shanghai. Anyone try SA in China? In Shanghai? If so, can you share your experiences?[/QUOTE]I just checked SA searching Shanghai area (100 miles) - there are 20 to 25 girls currently online and roughly 100 girls who logged in the last 24 hours. Photos look good. Not at all clear to me how many of them speak good English or any English. Many of them have their bio write up in Chinese only. A few listed friends with benefits as one of their seeking attributes.

I have no real experience using the service in Shanghai. I personally would be very wary of using pay for sex services in commie China with zero recourse to any due legal process. That's just me. To the extent possible, I avoid ever traveling to that country.

On the topic of "I need some money to see you" RUN AWAY fast. Look I don't buy into the ruining the market thing. Markets will do what they do. But I know that any girl that asks for cash for a platonic meet and greet is NOT someone you want to see. In fact as soon as they ask for cash upfront you can be 90% sure they are a scammer — never going to be down for a real date with sex. Why should they when they can get $100 from a bunch of rubes for doing nothing! Instant block!

I am also not a fan of the coffee date. First date is ALWAYS at least drinks but more likely dinner and drinks — and go to the room that night. My experience is close the deal in that first date window. Get a vibe going and some drinks flowing and clothes will be shed shortly!

To Lshroomers FKK question you simply must do it. You don't do it for the sex. I guarantee your SB sex is better because it's more real. But you do it for the EXPERIENCE. There is nothing on earth like the FKK and a buffet of beautiful women (well the Boates if São Paulo can be equally satisfying) and you haven't really lived life fully as a man if you have not done FKK ImO.

[QUOTE=LshRoomer;2445665]Pessimist,

I've actually never been to an FKK. I've been to showpark in Prague, but not a proper German FKK. The experience does appeal to me, but every time I consider going, the thought comes to mind that I'll be having a drink, see a nice looking girl, chat her up for a bit, then head back to bang her based on her menu of offerings. Based on the day, I may have to wait until 2 or 3 other guys are done with her first LOL! Even still, the thought of FKK does pique my curiosity. I may just go next time I'm in Germany just to cross it off the list. Are there any FKKs that you guys recommend (forgive me for the question, I do realize I'm in the SA thread)?

I'm glad that I'm not the only one noticing the practice of asking $$ just for a quick coffee. That's why in my first post, I pleaded with my fellow mongers to not give into this piss poor practice. Without us, these girls would have to take another path. Therefore, we should be the one dictating (or influencing) the price, not them. And for new guys, I say again. Paying to meet her in order to "prove" you are not fake is a big NO NO! Don't do it! Move on! Don't fuck up the market for the rest of us and set bad expectations! As more of us mongers pay these crazy prices ( 500 for a night), we are sending a message that the prices can / should increase. I'm sure we don't want to send that message.

OK. Back to what I was saying.[/QUOTE]Actually, I didn't have any result in London, LOL. This is how it works for me: If I go to Europe, I generally try to take a side tour and make a trip to FKK at least for a couple of days. As such, I am not looking to spend too many days in London. Be there for the absolute minimum number of days for business and try to make beeline to FKKs LOL. And when in London, it is also possible that I may have a business dinner with colleagues, which leaves even less time for sugar babes. I try to look up girls on SA in London and see if I can negotiate a deal before I even step in London, but till now, such negotiations have not gotten anywhere. Since I am only there for a couple of days, it becomes a one time thing and the girls have asked for too much money so far. And I am not willing to fork over that much because I may be heading to FKks the next day and I can bang chicks for 50.

If I spend a couple of weeks in London on business, I will probably become more serious about finding sugar babes in London. But that has not happened yet.

I think you should try to attend FKK at least once. The first time you step into one of those places is unlike anything you may have ever seen. These days the experience has become a bit jaded but 8/9 years ago, girls were less pushy, and service was quite good. To be in a place where you have 100 totally naked chicks and knowing that you can fuck any of them on the spot for 50 is an awesome feeling. I end up doing 15 to 25 sessions per a normal trip (4 to 6 days) or fewer if it is just a short stop for a day or two. It is a good idea to try one of the larger clubs in NRW or Hessen for your first visit.

I can't tell you one is better than the other. I would say sugar babes and FKK are different experiences. That is something you need to find for yourself.

You give give advice about not giving into sharky sugar babes. I have been doing this for 4 years now. I would say though, "destroying the market by paying too much" typically does not happen too much. This is a very fragmented market. In my city alone, there are several thousand girls on SA over wide range of races, ages, body types, other attributes. I don't think they are talking to each other too much. Most girls know a couple of other girls who are on SA, that's it. What I notice is that many girls have no idea what is a realistic expectation. Some ask for $500 per session but quickly come down to $200. That sort of thing never happens in a FKK. In a club, there is transmission of information from experienced girls to new girls, there is a somewhat rigid to loosely elastic pricing structure, etc. I think it really pays to be patient and negotiate with many girls. Eventually you will receive good offers, and over time you accumulate a fairly large stable of girls. I revisit girls from even a couple of years ago, and they don't hold a grudge that we did not get together in a while. If they still need money, some are willing to have a quick one time session. This is the advantage of being on the site for a long time.

As we all suffer through the drought, perhaps you will enjoy this previously unpublished SA girl report out. Enjoy!

-.

Of my three NYC girls I surely must write this one up as my finest complete dating experience ever. (At the time).

So Emily is Vietnamese and super cute. She's in college in NYC -- her senior year but is from LA. She has a true valley girl sort of free spirit about her, like everything in the world is new and amazing.

We really got lucky to go on a date together. Because I'd been surfing NYC for weeks and thought I was done. Then on the Friday before I find her. I accidentally overlooked her age range maxing out at 45 and sent her a ping and was surprised when she responded. But then we have instant chemistry and witty banter. It's interesting how this just totally works with some girls and you get mutually infatuated over the wire. It's really great. Probably best chemistry since Valentina.

At some point I casually threw in something about meeting and she was all over it. But she suggested coffee and possibly a later meet up. I told her I had to politely decline because I was too busy for two meetings (the truth) and I thought we were done. So she says she's not opposed to a single dinner meeting but she's new and how would that work.

This is actually good because I can explain how I agreed terms with other girls and this involves mentioning room time. So we get that elephant out of the room. I tell her I would gift her in the hundreds but I sent girls who asked 500 packing. With this loose framework we agree to meet.

I pick out a lovely high end Italian place with a view of the Brooklyn Bridge. Last minute she asks if I can call her an Uber which is a bit of a pro move so I form some unfounded doubts. When she arrives, these doubts are quickly cast aside. She is such a genuine vivacious young force of nature. Just bubbly and so excited to be treated like a princess.

We have a lovely dinner together and it is so much fun to be introducing this girl to the high-end dinner date. She's over the moon about the food and the view and everything else. She's never had Tiramisu which she adores after ordering. Just magical to see her thousand watt smile across from me all evening.

I guess conversation must have just flowed beyond even expectations Because before we knew it it was 10:15. Two hours absolutely flew by. So we decide to go for a drink in Brooklyn and will walk the 20 minutes to a speakeasy I found on Google.

We start by just lingering outside on the dock looking at the Brooklyn Bridge. Very romantic holding hands etc but I don't recall kissing her. Still very comfortable. We walk hand in hand the mile or so to the bar which we can't find but end up in another one. It's OK but I think we are both thinking about the room and don't stay more than 15 minutes. And we walk to the hotel.

The night before with Ashley I got surprised by the screening check they set up at night at the hotel, where you have to pass thru a security check of key cards. I had Ashley trailing me so as to not attract late night colleague attention and had to make the last minute decision to motion her up to me and get her thru the check. I was prepared for this with Emily and gave her a key in the Uber. So it went fine being slightly separated and we were soon in the room together.

Emily had only been with three guys before lifetime. But one was a boyfriend of seven years. So at 23 she was an endearing mix of experienced and inexperienced. Properly liquored up she was not too nervous but a bit giggly and apologetic about not being a good kisser. True to her word it was pretty mediocre to start but she was a quick learner and soon matched my style. It was super nice once we got passionate.

We start making out fully clothed standing near the bed. I almost always start this way. But we got naked quickly as she wore this amazing dress. It was kind of like a suit with one button and no bra. So with the flick of a button she is in nothing but panties. And wow. A banging hot body. Rather full firm Bcups and a great ass. Really really good.

We start on the bed with me pulling her down on top of me and are making out naked. It's kinda sweet but I have to direct her hand down to my junk to let her know she should be hands on at this point. LOL. These newbies are delightful!

But when she gets to BBBJ it's very good. Later she says she learned to treat it like a popsicle (schoolgirl laugh goes here). I provide some direction moving her to BLS. This seems unfamiliar territory for her but she does an OK job and so fun to be with a BLS virgin. Just the "newness" of being with her is intoxicating.

I remember getting on top of her naked and really kissing her passionately. And working my way down. Plenty of tit sucking. What a nice pair. And she enjoys the circular motion. And lots of licking and teasing. By the time I reach her pussy she is a sloppy mess.

And boy is she in for a ride. I lick and suck and finger her Gspot and she squirms and bucks and has several Os Over a twenty plus minute session. When I come up for air she is totally sweaty and spent and says, "Well I guess I've never had that done right before! That was really something!" LOL. Glad to be of service ma'am!

We fuck in all the usual positions with Mish kissing being spectacular and really good doggie. What a nice body. But we head back to the BBBJ for a finish. She's got great on-shaft technique and I rise to the occasion to give her a hot mouth load that she swallows with grace. This just another benefit of the right SA girls you are boyfriend for the night and they treat you like one.

The afterglow is great and we have the best pillow talk ever. We stare deeply into each other's eyes for long periods. I do recall her saying "I'm not an escort am I?" and kinda have to White lie "no baby this is different. We both want to be here and the gift is just a side effect" It's sweet that she wants to remain on the sweet girl side of the line if she can.

I try to convince her to spend the night and had I pushed hard I think she would have. But in the end she decides to go. We call her an Uber and I track it till she gets home. What a sweetheart. Overall including dinner and romance and the bedroom, this is the best date I've ever had. (At the time. Krystal in Las Vegas blew the roof of my world a few months later!