Monterrey

I kind of missed this part when I read your post:

"The bars girls lie to us, we lie to them...it is expected, verdad?"

You are wrong. They can tell us anything they like, be it truth or lie, thing is you shouldn't pay attention. You shouldn't care, the only truth here is the one YOU want to carry on.
This is going to sound to philosophical, but the only one that counts here is your own existence.

"I AM troubled by my lying to "G." But, the way I see it, I have to tell huge lies at home just to participate in the scene in MTY to begin with. Lying to bar girls in order to participate in that scene to the fullest, in order to get GFE results, is the least of my worries. "

You should only be troubled with what you say at home. Why make it double trouble? Me, am only worried with the home part cause I do not lie to the club girls. They know am married and they should not expect anything from me.






[QUOTE=UnospongeBob]I contemplated the following with respect to lying to the girls about our true circumstances.

We tell bar girls many lies, especially initially when we first meet them. But, truthfully, the lies told to bar girls, unless they become important to me emotionally, such as "G" is at this juncture, are of no consequence.

The bars girls lie to us, we lie to them...it is expected, verdad? But more importantly, if we are going to examine ourselves for the lying that occurs, then we should examine ourselves completely, not only with respect to the lies we might tell a bar girl or two, but specifically concerning the lies we are telling to the ones that are already significant to us.

What about the lies we tell our wives, the ones that truly love us, the ones that put up with us, the ones that stick by us, and the ones that take care of us?

I AM troubled by my lying to "G." But, the way I see it, I have to tell huge lies at home just to participate in the scene in MTY to begin with. Lying to bar girls in order to participate in that scene to the fullest, in order to get GFE results, is the least of my worries.

My concern developes only if "love" develops, in which case the lies have already been told. With "G," I am at that juncture where the lies told were told in advance of any "relationship" developing. At this juncture, to disclose the lie would be cruel and uneccessary. I have chosen to wait for a more appropriate time to disclose the truth, preferably after she is down off her current emotional high.

Frankly, I lie intially to the girls to protect my "legitimate" life, and to limit the inhabitions that marriage places on us with respect to GFE. With most bar girls, the relationship does not progress to the point of emotional love, but I am strongly convinced that the lie does help solicit the GFE none the less.

If I am willing to lie to my partner in life in order to visit MTY to begin with, then I have few regrets initially lying to bar girls in order to enjoy the mongering scene there.

I have much more of a legitimate problem over lying to my wife, and lying to girls that might eventually fall in love with me, than I do lying to bar girls that have no emotional attachment at our initial meetings.

So, I lie to bar girls during our initial meetings because there is no emotional attachment, and I choose instead to protect the details of my personal life. Afterall, I have already made the transgression, lying to my wife to be there in the first place. So, a little lying to the bar girls on our first meeting is of little concern to me.

My choosing to lie to my wife, while substituting a misplaced quasi concern over initially lying to a bar girl, is just kidding myself, a false virtuosity on my part.[/QUOTE]

Carlos, mi buen amigo...el rey de Monterrey...

I think we are basically in agreement, as usual. I agree with you that the "ONLY" concern should be with respect to what we are telling our loved one's at home.

I think I should be mindful of "G's" feelings, but I am much more concerned about not disclosing my personal circumstances to such individuals, bar girls who generally are totally unreliable, totally scamming, totally insincere, generally only interested in money, etc...

While I do think "G" is different, I don't know that for sure, and until I am totally comfortable with her motivations, I am choosing to maintain my confidentiality. I know my writings suggest a naive emotional vulnerability and foolishness on my part, but my level of intellectual caution is still very much in tact.

I have merely concealed my personal circumstances, and told her very seriously that she should ONLY expect things from me when I am there, and that there can be NO futura con el gringo. She knows that because I have been really very adamant about it.

But, I have also told her that while I am there, we will have a lot of fun. It will be up to her to cut me off because she is triste that I am NOT available for her permenently. But, I hope she decides that some of USB, and his money, is better than none of the USB or his money.

Frankly, with bar girls, I am not always entirely sure of their true intentions, whether they are merely lying to me for money, whether they are sincere with me in anything they say. So, I always choose to conceal my personal circumstances. Even in the case of "G," I am not entirely sure of her sincerity, and unless this goes on for a while, I won't be entirely sure of her sincerity. I've simply experienced too much lying from bar girls to have any faith in the validity of their behavior toward me. That doesn't mean that I am going to treat them any differently, but it does mean that I am going to hold all my personal information close to the vest, certainly until I know for sure.

I hope "G" decides to take the occassional fun and carino, feelings that for my part, ARE very sincere. She is certainly providing the best GFE I have ever experienced in Mexico, one that rivals anything I have found in Asia and Colombia, and I have found a lot of GFE in Asia and Colombia. I think she is being sincere, but it hasn't really been sufficient time to make a judgement.

To all of the critics of the Mexican experience, I say you are not giving it your all. GFE does exist in Mexico, and it rivals anything available worldwide.

What I am about to inquire of you Carlos, our resident expert on the cultural influences upon Mexican bar girls, is not meant to be offensive or critical of the Mexicanos. But, I am beginning to really wonder, purely from a intellectual and philosophical perspective, as an inquisitive intellectual, how a 24 year old, hard bodied, stripper girl is head over heals in love with a middle aged gringo, albeit a really nice gringo, but a gringo that is a little gordo, but in pretty decent shape, mucho excercise, but middle aged, verdad? Mexicanos must really treat their girls LIKE SHIT for me to have this kind of success.

Currently, according to "G," she can't find a novio that she would have, nor does she even want to look for another substitute novio, one that she will accept. Fact is, she has told me she uncategorically will not ever choose a younger guy. That suggests we "old geezers" are in a pretty good position in Mexico for GFE encounters, if we make a little effort, verdad?

She is really down on her prospects in Mexico, especially the young men. I have encouraged her to look for a good boyfriend, prerferrably a younger one, younger than me at least, but she is really quite starved for whatever I seemingly provide her. I am giving her the same kind treatment that I would provide to any girl that I would take on salida, nothing special other than just being nice to her. I was not trying to make her fall in love with me, but merely playing the "good date." Frankly, the resulting GFE is not so much a result of "MY" efforts, but more a result of her choosing me, her reacting postitively to what I always do, and her having a desire to make the whole experience one of affection rather then just a business relationship.

And, by the way...

Carlos, let me know if you need anything on this next trip. Also, I think the Nintendo "Wii" might be starting to become available here, but I need to check on it for sure. I heard of a circumstance the other day where a local kid got one of them, so let me know if "?" still wants one, ok?


[QUOTE=Carlos Perez]I kind of missed this part when I read your post:

"The bars girls lie to us, we lie to them...it is expected, verdad?"

You are wrong. They can tell us anything they like, be it truth or lie, thing is you shouldn't pay attention. You shouldn't care, the only truth here is the one YOU want to carry on.
This is going to sound to philosophical, but the only one that counts here is your own existence.

"I AM troubled by my lying to "G." But, the way I see it, I have to tell huge lies at home just to participate in the scene in MTY to begin with. Lying to bar girls in order to participate in that scene to the fullest, in order to get GFE results, is the least of my worries. "

You should only be troubled with what you say at home. Why make it double trouble? Me, am only worried with the home part cause I do not lie to the club girls. They know am married and they should not expect anything from me.[/QUOTE]

I am torn between speaking my mind and watching a friend experiencing love, true love.

My honest opinion? This is all a game. Girls play us while making us feel we are the ones playing them. No such love exists. Lust for a hot young body and the need to feel needed, maybe. But love? Lo dudo.

Enjoy whatever the girl gives you. Lie to her as needed because she is doing the same. A girl spending every single day of her life servicing men upstairs and a man spending most of his life looking for the next GFE can NOT be honest with each other. Both are after one thing. Take a wild guess what that is.

And by the way, this applies to all of us mongers and all our ladies. All of them.

Wasted


[QUOTE=UnospongeBob]Carlos, mi buen amigo...el rey de Monterrey...

I think we are basically in agreement, as usual. I agree with you that the "ONLY" concern should be with respect to what we are telling our loved one's at home.

I think I should be mindful of "G's" feelings, but I am much more concerned about not disclosing my personal circumstances to such individuals, bar girls who generally are totally unreliable, totally scamming, totally insincere, generally only interested in money, etc...

While I do think "G" is different, I don't know that for sure, and until I am totally comfortable with her motivations, I am choosing to maintain my confidentiality. I know my writings suggest a naive emotional vulnerability and foolishness on my part, but my level of intellectual caution is still very much in tact.

I have merely concealed my personal circumstances, and told her very seriously that she should ONLY expect things from me when I am there, and that there can be NO futura con el gringo. She knows that because I have been really very adamant about it.

But, I have also told her that while I am there, we will have a lot of fun. It will be up to her to cut me off because she is triste that I am NOT available for her permenently. But, I hope she decides that some of USB, and his money, is better than none of the USB or his money.

Frankly, with bar girls, I am not always entirely sure of their true intentions, whether they are merely lying to me for money, whether they are sincere with me in anything they say. So, I always choose to conceal my personal circumstances. Even in the case of "G," I am not entirely sure of her sincerity, and unless this goes on for a while, I won't be entirely sure of her sincerity. I've simply experienced too much lying from bar girls to have any faith in the validity of their behavior toward me. That doesn't mean that I am going to treat them any differently, but it does mean that I am going to hold all my personal information close to the vest, certainly until I know for sure.

I hope "G" decides to take the occassional fun and carino, feelings that for my part, ARE very sincere. She is certainly providing the best GFE I have ever experienced in Mexico, one that rivals anything I have found in Asia and Colombia, and I have found a lot of GFE in Asia and Colombia. I think she is being sincere, but it hasn't really been sufficient time to make a judgement.

To all of the critics of the Mexican experience, I say you are not giving it your all. GFE does exist in Mexico, and it rivals anything available worldwide.

What I am about to inquire of you Carlos, our resident expert on the cultural influences upon Mexican bar girls, is not meant to be offensive or critical of the Mexicanos. But, I am beginning to really wonder, purely from a intellectual and philosophical perspective, as an inquisitive intellectual, how a 24 year old, hard bodied, stripper girl is head over heals in love with a middle aged gringo, albeit a really nice gringo, but a gringo that is a little gordo, but in pretty decent shape, mucho excercise, but middle aged, verdad? Mexicanos must really treat their girls LIKE SHIT for me to have this kind of success.

Currently, according to "G," she can't find a novio that she would have, nor does she even want to look for another substitute novio, one that she will accept. Fact is, she has told me she uncategorically will not ever choose a younger guy. That suggests we "old geezers" are in a pretty good position in Mexico for GFE encounters, if we make a little effort, verdad?

She is really down on her prospects in Mexico, especially the young men. I have encouraged her to look for a good boyfriend, prerferrably a younger one, younger than me at least, but she is really quite starved for whatever I seemingly provide her. I am giving her the same kind treatment that I would provide to any girl that I would take on salida, nothing special other than just being nice to her. I was not trying to make her fall in love with me, but merely playing the "good date." Frankly, the resulting GFE is not so much a result of "MY" efforts, but more a result of her choosing me, her reacting postitively to what I always do, and her having a desire to make the whole experience one of affection rather then just a business relationship.

And, by the way...

Carlos, let me know if you need anything on this next trip. Also, I think the Nintendo "Wii" might be starting to become available here, but I need to check on it for sure. I heard of a circumstance the other day where a local kid got one of them, so let me know if "?" still wants one, ok?[/QUOTE]

I must agree with Wasted... but in the aspect that she is there working right now... has been working there, as if nothing.
Another side to the coin.
Wasted asked me, when he was here, how could I not mend my relationship with my Obsession Lamb after so much time. Let me point out that she went ballistic when I bought another girl a drink (I sent her the drink, not even sat with her)... real part here is that she is not entitled to be angry. After all, Iam the guy with the money and they are the ones that need it.
My Lamb, on the contrary, should have made a better effort of me noticing her, not the other way around, killing the friendship.
Am I going to miss her? Yes, and a lot, but Iam not going to mess my life because of her.
That is the point... it's supposed to be fun, after all, we are paying.
Am not into clubs and club girls to screw my life up... cause their life is not my life.
Even if I respect the girls, even if I have good friends among them, they are our equivalent of you white trash....


[QUOTE=Wastedgman]I am torn between speaking my mind and watching a friend experiencing love, true love.

My honest opinion? This is all a game. Girls play us while making us feel we are the ones playing them. No such love exists. Lust for a hot young body and the need to feel needed, maybe. But love? Lo dudo.

Enjoy whatever the girl gives you. Lie to her as needed because she is doing the same. A girl spending every single day of her life servicing men upstairs and a man spending most of his life looking for the next GFE can NOT be honest with each other. Both are after one thing. Take a wild guess what that is.

And by the way, this applies to all of us mongers and all our ladies. All of them.

Wasted[/QUOTE]

This is where I would like to select the button that permits me to quote both of my amigos at once, Carlos and WastedG. I will have to vote my opinions in the satisfaction poll that Jackson has available on the home page. It would be preferable to be able to address more than one commentary at a time by simply pressing a button.

You guys are both 100% correct...

WastedG, I think you have most accurately portrayed my true feelings in the entire matter. I appreciate the concern of my brothers in arms...but, don't worry, I am totally and completely grounded in reality.

I agree with you 100%...

It is strictly a game, a game of finding the girl that makes you feel the best, the one that delivers your optimum experience. So far, over a five year period, "G" has been the best at delivering what I enjoy. The love, at least for me, is born strictly out of the moment. For my part, there is NO desire for, or anticipation of, anything long term. I hope for nothing other than a close friendship, and perhaps an intimacy that is experienced passionately, with sincerity, and nothing more.

Enduring "love" is limited by many factors too numerous to mention, not to mention my own aversion to such a situation developing between me and a Mexican Lower Class Uneducated Bar Girl. It is quite clearly a point of controversy between "G" and me. She seems to sincerely be looking for more. I have explained to her that there is only the here and now, and there will never be a long term anything. She is not easily accepting of that explanation, regardless of whether her contradictory nightly lacivious activities in the bar might otherwise suggest that she is calculatingly emotionless and preditory. Descriptions that I do not think are accurate of her in comparison to most bar girls I know, and I know a ton, Worldwide. Fact is, I think her motivations are pretty sweet. But, it really doesn't matter because there is nothing more to it than what we have.

Do I believe her affections are real? Yes, I do believe so, regardless of the contradictory nature of her job. But, truly, it doesn't matter if her affections are real or not, if in the end, the result satisfies my reason for being there. My affections for her are totally real in the moment, and I regard her as my intimate friend. I would not want to do anything to hurt any of my friends, she included.

But, I have NO anticipation for anything more than what we currently have, just some fun in the moment when I visit Monterrey, nothing more (or 12-15 hours, whichever comes first, hahahah!!!). I have encouraged her, if she is sincere, to savor our moments together. Because, there will never be more between us.

On the other hand, if her affections are calculatingly insincere, then it makes no difference because I am enjoying the ride, and I anticipate nothing more beyond our moments together in the here and now. But, if her affections last, I hope to enjoy being with her well into the future. That would be just fine with me.

But, the truth is, I will remain happy as long as she delivers the GFE I enjoy. If and when she waivers in the delivery of that affection, which I am sure will eventually transpire, then I will be looking for the next candidate. But, of course, if she is able to maintain my attention beyond the norm, perhaps for a relatively lengthy period of time, then based on the way I feel now, I would be perfectly happy keeping her around. She is fun, and she is fulfilling my expectations. So, I enjoy being with her. End of story.

WastedG, here, IMHO, is your most significant statement, one that I concur with completely:

"Enjoy whatever the girl gives you. Lie to her as needed because she is doing the same. A girl spending every single day of her life servicing men upstairs and a man spending most of his life looking for the next GFE can NOT be honest with each other. Both are after one thing. Take a wild guess what that is. And by the way, this applies to all of us mongers and all our ladies. All of them."

You have hit the nail on the head my friend. But, here is the question, a question that originates from the mouth of the devil himself...

Where, within the category of "our ladies," are our most beloved ladies, those that do enjoy a long term existence with us? For my part, just so you understand my perspective, that is where, for me, true love actually does exist, love that endures beyond the sexual/affectionate/hard body/young piece of ass/nubile/ passions in the moment. With our significant beloved ladies is where we find a deep abiding spiritual love that transcends the lust of the body, a love that exists between two souls.

But, frankly, to lump our most beloved ladies into the mix does bother me. But, of course, they are, through no apparent fault of their own, a significant party to the mix.

[QUOTE=Wastedgman]I am torn between speaking my mind and watching a friend experiencing love, true love.

My honest opinion? This is all a game. Girls play us while making us feel we are the ones playing them. No such love exists. Lust for a hot young body and the need to feel needed, maybe. But love? Lo dudo.

Enjoy whatever the girl gives you. Lie to her as needed because she is doing the same. A girl spending every single day of her life servicing men upstairs and a man spending most of his life looking for the next GFE can NOT be honest with each other. Both are after one thing. Take a wild guess what that is.

And by the way, this applies to all of us mongers and all our ladies. All of them.

Wasted[/QUOTE]

USB: I omitted most of your post and left the parts that I believe you know is the truth.

Last week when I was in MTY, I took my lady "J" from the "O" place, who we are all very happy to know has left the business and is now working. I mean working like you and me to earn a living. No longer servicing men. Anyways, I took her to a nice restaurant where, during our conversation, told me she loved me. I asked 'what?' as if I did not hear, she replied 'TE AMO'. again and again she yelled ' TE AMO' for all to hear.

She gives me the most out of all the girls I know in MTY. If this was my first visit to MTY, I would have fallen head over heals for her and if I was single, I would've married her. She truly gives me a full GFE and even more like a wife. She acts like really loves me. But .... she does not move a single hair in my body ... emotionally. She's very hot and extremely satisfying sexually, but I have no emotions for her.

Look at my "P" girl from the "I" place. My heart goes out to her. I love her so much but only as a lady friend. I am not in love with her. I love her because she is so sweet and always sincere. She asks me to take her out. She will stay all night and all day with me. take me out. I'll do whatever you want. And she does. I take her to the clubs. I have never seem someone make love to the music they way se does. But she never ever shared any emotional notes with me. I see her as the most honest SC girl in MTY. Never lied to me about anything simply because our relationship has never gone beyond her being my escort girl.

X girl? Hot dammm. I think I'm gonna dump her. Bad news. Warning to everyone. Stay away from her.

You said: "But, frankly, to lump our most beloved ladies into the mix does bother me." Well my good friend. True. I believe the girls we (you, Carlos and I) select are surely gentler and kinder. They are the chosen few. We are in agreement that they are the sweeter selection. Just so darn cute. I hope that they all find a better life out there and resist the financial temptation. Nevertheless, they remain, for now, SC girls.

While I was at the "I" place one night, "P" girl left me to go on stage for the lineup. For a minute, I was so sad watching her on stage waiting for a mofo to take her upstairs to f**k her. What the hell? I could not look her in the eye and I walked out. That was the night you and I went to the Casino with Mr. "L" afterwards.

These girls break my heart. I appreciate the opportunity to be nice to them for a night or a day but it kills me to watch them on stage.

One girl that is hitting on Carlos asked him bluntly 'when are you gonna f**k me?' This no different than my sweet "P" girl asking me to take her out all night. Just a different approach.

OK. I'll stop blabbering.

Wasted


[QUOTE=
But, I have NO anticipation for anything more than what we currently have, just some fun in the moment when I visit Monterrey, nothing more (or 12-15 hours, whichever comes first, hahahah!!!). I have encouraged her, if she is sincere, to savor our moments together. Because, there will never be more between us.

But, frankly, to lump our most beloved ladies into the mix does bother me. But, of course, they are, through no apparent fault of their own, a significant party to the mix.[/QUOTE]

The thing that best describes my emotional feelings for my girlfriends is the word "sentimentality." I concluded long ago that I am almost postitive that I care more emotionally, sentimentally that is, more for them than they do for me.

*********************IMPORTANT NOTE!!!!*********************

That doesn't change my way of handling my interactions with them. That is, it does NOT make me fall head over heals in love with them, desiring a permenant, committed relationship. But, I have to admit, they do have my affection, caring, concern, and in the moment, my love.********

At times, certain ones have cried in my presence, austensibly displaying their emotional affections for me. There are times that I know the tears are NOT false expressions of their emotions for me, but sincere in origin. Sometimes they are displays of emotion that are over what they have not been able to find in life, thereby projecting that melancholy onto me, the "nice guy," the one that treats them well.

Who knows why they are sometimes emotional. There are a thousand reasons why they are affectionate and emotional with us. Most of it, I believe, is wishful thinking on their part. Perhaps we are their knights in shining armor on snow white horses. But, even then, even when their emotions are sincere, I have this sixth sense that the level of caring and concern I have for them is differently defined than their level of caring and concern for me. I believe it is a cultural difference between their upbringing in Mexico and mine in the USA. One can not discount the cultural differences, and to misinterpret them is to deceive one's self.

Who knows, maybe it is all just SEX and lust on both our parts. But, how is one to know the depth of their affections for sure. We can not. There jobs interject so much doubt into our thought processes, that we must conclude, especially for the sake of our own emotional survival, that they are simply there to be used by us, and that their expressions are simply for show, to gain more money from us. But, truly, how are we to truly know whether their affections are legitimate or not. With some of them it is very hard to tell for sure.

Afterall, our girlfriends ARE girls first, people second, and hookers third. They have hopes and dreams, most of which consist of a "normal" life, where caring and affection are an intregal part of their lives, and more importantly where money and need is not so much a part of their daily existence. I think we easily forget that, certainly as affluent Gringos, and as high class, successful Mexicanos too.

I firmly believe that the treatment we give our favoritas is different than what the girls experience from the other guys in the club scene on a daily basis, especially within the lower end clubs. For the girls, the club scene is their job. Believe me, they view it as such. What they do in the privados is no different to them than emptying a bed pan, giving an enima, etc... just as a nurse might do in a hospital. I think many of them have rationalized their jobs as such, possibly viewing themselves as our "angels of mercy," and emotional/psychological healers. They view their jobs in the privados as simply providing us with relief, and their is NO emotional attachment for them. Emotional nurturing is what pushes a woman's buttons, NOT SEX in and of itself. They do not get emotional nurturing in the privados, but they do get emotional nurturing and sincere appreciation from us when on salida. My behavior toward them is 100% sincere in that respect.

I do not think that all of the girls view their time with us on salida as their "jobs." Some do of course, the ones that are just in it for the money and nothing else, certainly. But, I know a number of girls that seemingly get a lot more out of our taking them on salida, and being treated like a real woman, being treated as something special, being treated as something more than just our hookers. When we treat them as young women, they are no longer simply servicing another "John" in the privados. Those are the girls that are special to me. The ones that recipricate my affections in ernest are the ones that receive my friendship and caring concern, mainly because it seems to be sincerely given in return on their part.

We as affluent men forget that our girlfriends live lives that we might not be able to tolerate were we in their same circumstances. I am mindful of the difficulties some of our girlfriends must endure. I am specifically aware that some of them have harsh and difficult family circumstances. Others of them I can only imagine what their lives might be like. And, of course, others of them are simply in that vocation because they are greedy bitches with NO heart left...we all know those as well, don't we?

But, for some of them, the good ones, I think we are sometimes ignorant of their specific desperate circumstances, ones in which their primary motivation for selling their bodies is for the benefit of someone other than themselves; kids, parents, grandparents, brothers, sisters, etc...or with an eye to their futures. They do what they do in preparation for a time after their bodies are no longer marketable, hoping instead to build a life out of poverty using the only asset they believe they have.

Certainly, for some of them, their logic is that they have no other choice, living within a poor economy, limited educational skills, their lowly ethnic class position in life within Mexican society, usually a position that is race based, and no direct fault of their own. I can fully understand their belief that their bodies are their only marketable asset, and their only sure way to a comfortable life. Their strategy for a comfortable life might just be right on the mark, their sole alternative.

So, with those things in mind, I give some of them the benefit of the doubt, believing that their caring and concern is real. In the case of my "G, and apparently in your case, WastedG, with "J," "P," and whichever other ones you determine are sincere, you know what I mean.

QUOTE=Wastedgman]USB: I omitted most of your post and left the parts that I believe you know is the truth.

Last week when I was in MTY, I took my lady "J" from the "O" place, who we are all very happy to know has left the business and is now working. I mean working like you and me to earn a living. No longer servicing men. Anyways, I took her to a nice restaurant where, during our conversation, told me she loved me. I asked 'what?' as if I did not hear, she replied 'TE AMO'. again and again she yelled ' TE AMO' for all to hear.

She gives me the most out of all the girls I know in MTY. If this was my first visit to MTY, I would have fallen head over heals for her and if I was single, I would've married her. She truly gives me a full GFE and even more like a wife. She acts like really loves me. But .... she does not move a single hair in my body ... emotionally. She's very hot and extremely satisfying sexually, but I have no emotions for her.

Look at my "P" girl from the "I" place. My heart goes out to her. I love her so much but only as a lady friend. I am not in love with her. I love her because she is so sweet and always sincere. She asks me to take her out. She will stay all night and all day with me. take me out. I'll do whatever you want. And she does. I take her to the clubs. I have never seem someone make love to the music they way se does. But she never ever shared any emotional notes with me. I see her as the most honest SC girl in MTY. Never lied to me about anything simply because our relationship has never gone beyond her being my escort girl.

X girl? Hot dammm. I think I'm gonna dump her. Bad news. Warning to everyone. Stay away from her.

You said: "But, frankly, to lump our most beloved ladies into the mix does bother me." Well my good friend. True. I believe the girls we (you, Carlos and I) select are surely gentler and kinder. They are the chosen few. We are in agreement that they are the sweeter selection. Just so darn cute. I hope that they all find a better life out there and resist the financial temptation. Nevertheless, they remain, for now, SC girls.

While I was at the "I" place one night, "P" girl left me to go on stage for the lineup. For a minute, I was so sad watching her on stage waiting for a mofo to take her upstairs to f**k her. What the hell? I could not look her in the eye and I walked out. That was the night you and I went to the Casino with Mr. "L" afterwards.

These girls break my heart. I appreciate the opportunity to be nice to them for a night or a day but it kills me to watch them on stage.

One girl that is hitting on Carlos asked him bluntly 'when are you gonna f**k me?' This no different than my sweet "P" girl asking me to take her out all night. Just a different approach.

OK. I'll stop blabbering.

Wasted[/QUOTE]

I think you sort of missed a bit of the point in the PM you recieved. You say below that most of the girls are "cold as Ice" because they have chosen to be. . . .

I think the PM, which was not from me, lol was trying to pint out that in many cases these girls do not start off cold. They fall in "love" with guys or gringos that as you say "sweep them off their feet". They make emotional investments and in many cases, and I am not saying yours, the guy doing the sweeping uses the fact that she has fallen for him to get "freebies". If this happens a few times even the sweetest girl will lose "hope" and turn cold and hard core.

There may not be as much difference in your angel and "cold" women as you think. It may just be they are at different "stages" of being a bar girl. She may not have been burned enough times, and if a few years down the road she is a cold and hard core pro your "relationship" will have played a part in that transformation.

Not many women wake up and one day become cold and business like hookers. Many start the job out of desperation but still have the fantasy of meeting a nice guy and eventually having a normal life. Too many crushed fantasies can have a major impact on these girls.

I don't have much experience in mexico, although I will be in monterrey later this year and have been there twice before, but I have a bit of experience with latinas from a few different countries.

I met a girl one night at a bar/casa and while all the chicas were surrounding me for the "hard sell" she just stayed in the back smiling and giggling at the attention I was getting. After things settled down she finally made her way over and we had a few drinks. She was a a beautiful girl from the campo and was new to the game. We hit it off well, and she asked if I wanted to do a salida. I told her I was involved with a novia and things were bad and on a collision course for a break up but since we had not broken up yet, I would not do a salida. We continued chatting and I really enjoyed her company, although chatting in the club was less than ideal. After a few hours, she again asked about a salida and I could tell I had "swept her off her feet". I said I would pay the salida but we would just go out and grab a bite and continue our conversation, no sex. She was shocked and I paid the salida. Unfortunately when she went up stairs to change she fell ill and came down apologizing and got me my money back. She went up to her room and I left.

Fast forward a few months and I am now single and take a buddy to the same place. My buddy was not single and was not really looking to play around but we had a few drinks and the same girl came over excited to see me, hugging and kissing like a school girl etc. After a few drinks we decide to pay the salida for her and her friend to go dancing with us. That way we can have a fun night and my buddy wouldn't be cheating on his girl.

Once at the club and at a normal disco, we had a blast. At one point she leaned in and kissed me and after a very long and passionate kiss pulled back sort of suprised and asked why I kissed her with so much "passion". . .I just shrugged and said that is how I kiss. She smiled and dove in for more. We danced all night and she looked incredible. I was 40+ and she was 22 and had a body that killed.

After we were all good and drunk and the disco was closing we somehow wound up back at my hotel and my buddy was even heading to the room with his chica. His chica knocked on my door for some condoms and I gave her a few and sent her on her way.

Me and my girl had an extreme GFE. All night long, it was like making love to my novia in every way. At one point during the heat of passion she looked into my eyes and said "never leave me". . . .she was dead serious. . . . .freaked me out.

In the morning, more of the same and although the bar that she worked at had a fine to pay if the girls were not back by 11 am, she stayed till 4:30 pm.
She gave me her number and finally left.

I called a few times and she had left the job and moved back to the campo, so we did not see each other for a while. She kept asking me to come to the campo, but I never made it. In the mean time I wound up taking 2 of her ex co workers out on salida over the course of say 6 months. Then I wound up reconciling with my novia. So. . . .the next time I went to that same bar. . . with my same buddy. . . who was now single. . .she was back at work! She came over and was pissed! Yelling at me in front of the whole place for "F#$king other women". . . lol. . .my buddy grabbed a girl and paid a salida and I told this girl I could not do a salida because I was back with my novia. She was steaming.

Later on we did salidas a few times when the novia and I had broken up for good. She was still a good GFE but not even close to before.

Fast Forward about a year. I am reading another board and a poster mentions her, though she was working in a different place. He posted her cell number which was the same and he complained that after the salida she made him stop for food. . . .she ordered shrimp. . . .then they stop for smokes. . . . then he needed to buy condoms as she didn't have any. Back in the room, no GFE and she is out the door in 1.5 hours instead of TLN. This guy was late 20s and a nice guy. . . .

In a short time I was able to watch a sweet and nice incredible GFE turn into hard core pro. I don't think she chose to be cold. . . .I think she learned to be cold. . . .for her own good.


[QUOTE=UnospongeBob]Hey Fryer,



As the PM poster suggested, most of the girls that we come in contact with as mongers are "cold" as ice because they have chosen to be. I do NOT seek those types out, but long for the quality of relationship I currently have with my angel girl. They are few and far between because most of them, as the PM poster also pointed out, have protected their vulnerability and switched off their emotions. Angel girl is truly bliss on earth because she is totally open to me.

I have practiced this worldwide, and it aint that hard to sweep them off their feet if they want to be swept off their feet, verdad? This girl liked me initially, and now she loves me because we have spent some really nice quality time together, the kind of quality time she dreams about for herself. I have merely treated her just like I would treat almost any of them if given the opportunity.



But, on the other hand, if she maintains her attachment long term, I will make sure that I nurture her spirit, and that I give her my sincere and committed love when I am in Monterrey. She deserves that, and I would never choose to hurt her. If her's is a long term infatuation, I do not look at that as being bad. I intend to nurture things along so we both enjoy the ride. But, I also am realistic, and I know that with most Mexican bar girls, something always messes it up.[/QUOTE]

Excellent post Partyr. This reply is not for you but I am using your post because it applies more to me, if you don't mind:

Again, I am torn. Let's see .. at the risk of being rude .. there must be .. 50 ways to leave your lover.

Salida with no sex and no money? What a coincident, she got sick --> refund.

Salida with disco, sex and money .. Sold.

I do the same .. take 5 girls to disco, sex and money and live like I own the place.. They always come back for more.

Love? What is that? Love with money? Sure. They ask you to never leave them and come live in MTY.

What I want to say is: Them girls love us so long as we pay. Gold diggers? Absolutely. Lovers? Doubt it.

Was it Tina Turner? "I'm your private dancer, a dancer for money, do what you want me to do"?

Carlos' "D" girl at the "O" wanted to kill him, with my help, because he bought another girl a drink. to her, it is money lost. That should've been her drink.

Partyr's girl "Yelling at me in front of the whole place for "F#$king other women". Again, lost money she thought she was entitled to.

Get the picture? You are a paying customer. (Carlos’ famous words)

My old "D" girl destroyed the club once because I was setting with another girl. I argued that she was servicing other men. She argued that this was her job. How the hell do I argue with that? She ended up handcuffed and spent 3 nights in jail.

Lat week, she gave one mofu the full service upstairs in the booth across from where I was. Then she swears to me that she never does sex upstairs. I answered that I did not have sex either while she watched me butt f**k a girl. We were the only 2 couple upstairs. AND She believed me.

My good friends, your GFE lasts while she is with you. Once she's gone, she is looking for the next John to give another GFE to. Get it through your head.

Wasted

[QUOTE=Prtyr2]I think you sort of missed a bit of the point in the PM you recieved. You say below that most of the girls are "cold as Ice" because they have chosen to be. . . .

I think the PM, which was not from me, lol was trying to pint out that in many cases these girls do not start off cold. They fall in "love" with guys or gringos that as you say "sweep them off their feet". They make emotional investments and in many cases, and I am not saying yours, the guy doing the sweeping uses the fact that she has fallen for him to get "freebies". If this happens a few times even the sweetest girl will lose "hope" and turn cold and hard core.

There may not be as much difference in your angel and "cold" women as you think. It may just be they are at different "stages" of being a bar girl. She may not have been burned enough times, and if a few years down the road she is a cold and hard core pro your "relationship" will have played a part in that transformation.

Not many women wake up and one day become cold and business like hookers. Many start the job out of desperation but still have the fantasy of meeting a nice guy and eventually having a normal life. Too many crushed fantasies can have a major impact on these girls.

I don't have much experience in mexico, although I will be in monterrey later this year and have been there twice before, but I have a bit of experience with latinas from a few different countries.

I met a girl one night at a bar/casa and while all the chicas were surrounding me for the "hard sell" she just stayed in the back smiling and giggling at the attention I was getting. After things settled down she finally made her way over and we had a few drinks. She was a a beautiful girl from the campo and was new to the game. We hit it off well, and she asked if I wanted to do a salida. I told her I was involved with a novia and things were bad and on a collision course for a break up but since we had not broken up yet, I would not do a salida. We continued chatting and I really enjoyed her company, although chatting in the club was less than ideal. After a few hours, she again asked about a salida and I could tell I had "swept her off her feet". I said I would pay the salida but we would just go out and grab a bite and continue our conversation, no sex. She was shocked and I paid the salida. Unfortunately when she went up stairs to change she fell ill and came down apologizing and got me my money back. She went up to her room and I left.

Fast forward a few months and I am now single and take a buddy to the same place. My buddy was not single and was not really looking to play around but we had a few drinks and the same girl came over excited to see me, hugging and kissing like a school girl etc. After a few drinks we decide to pay the salida for her and her friend to go dancing with us. That way we can have a fun night and my buddy wouldn't be cheating on his girl.

Once at the club and at a normal disco, we had a blast. At one point she leaned in and kissed me and after a very long and passionate kiss pulled back sort of suprised and asked why I kissed her with so much "passion". . .I just shrugged and said that is how I kiss. She smiled and dove in for more. We danced all night and she looked incredible. I was 40+ and she was 22 and had a body that killed.

After we were all good and drunk and the disco was closing we somehow wound up back at my hotel and my buddy was even heading to the room with his chica. His chica knocked on my door for some condoms and I gave her a few and sent her on her way.

Me and my girl had an extreme GFE. All night long, it was like making love to my novia in every way. At one point during the heat of passion she looked into my eyes and said "never leave me". . . .she was dead serious. . . . .freaked me out.

In the morning, more of the same and although the bar that she worked at had a fine to pay if the girls were not back by 11 am, she stayed till 4:30 pm.
She gave me her number and finally left.

I called a few times and she had left the job and moved back to the campo, so we did not see each other for a while. She kept asking me to come to the campo, but I never made it. In the mean time I wound up taking 2 of her ex co workers out on salida over the course of say 6 months. Then I wound up reconciling with my novia. So. . . .the next time I went to that same bar. . . with my same buddy. . . who was now single. . .she was back at work! She came over and was pissed! Yelling at me in front of the whole place for "F#$king other women". . . lol. . .my buddy grabbed a girl and paid a salida and I told this girl I could not do a salida because I was back with my novia. She was steaming.

Later on we did salidas a few times when the novia and I had broken up for good. She was still a good GFE but not even close to before.

Fast Forward about a year. I am reading another board and a poster mentions her, though she was working in a different place. He posted her cell number which was the same and he complained that after the salida she made him stop for food. . . .she ordered shrimp. . . .then they stop for smokes. . . . then he needed to buy condoms as she didn't have any. Back in the room, no GFE and she is out the door in 1.5 hours instead of TLN. This guy was late 20s and a nice guy. . . .

In a short time I was able to watch a sweet and nice incredible GFE turn into hard core pro. I don't think she chose to be cold. . . .I think she learned to be cold. . . .for her own good.[/QUOTE]

With the exception that Prtyr2 he doesn't live here like I do (and that I do not take the girls out) this guy has lived one of the several examples of things that have happened to me at the clubs.
1. My D girl at the O place. I though she was gone for sure, suddenly she pops up and goes ballistic cause she now knows I have been seeing a "substitute".
2. Just this Friday, and this is a pointer for Prtyr2, one of my girls at the I place, while getting mauled by me at the privados said "I f***g like you". I never pay attention to those words. It's just rambling by the girls Prtyr2. their emotional center just kicks in and they say the first words that come in mind. They might mean it, but then again, they are pros and business comes back to mind, like the girl that was angry with you after her abscence. They think you are their property, which is not true.




[QUOTE=Prtyr2]I think you sort of missed a bit of the point in the PM you recieved. You say below that most of the girls are "cold as Ice" because they have chosen to be. . . .

I think the PM, which was not from me, lol was trying to pint out that in many cases these girls do not start off cold. They fall in "love" with guys or gringos that as you say "sweep them off their feet". They make emotional investments and in many cases, and I am not saying yours, the guy doing the sweeping uses the fact that she has fallen for him to get "freebies". If this happens a few times even the sweetest girl will lose "hope" and turn cold and hard core.

There may not be as much difference in your angel and "cold" women as you think. It may just be they are at different "stages" of being a bar girl. She may not have been burned enough times, and if a few years down the road she is a cold and hard core pro your "relationship" will have played a part in that transformation.

Not many women wake up and one day become cold and business like hookers. Many start the job out of desperation but still have the fantasy of meeting a nice guy and eventually having a normal life. Too many crushed fantasies can have a major impact on these girls.

I don't have much experience in mexico, although I will be in monterrey later this year and have been there twice before, but I have a bit of experience with latinas from a few different countries.

I met a girl one night at a bar/casa and while all the chicas were surrounding me for the "hard sell" she just stayed in the back smiling and giggling at the attention I was getting. After things settled down she finally made her way over and we had a few drinks. She was a a beautiful girl from the campo and was new to the game. We hit it off well, and she asked if I wanted to do a salida. I told her I was involved with a novia and things were bad and on a collision course for a break up but since we had not broken up yet, I would not do a salida. We continued chatting and I really enjoyed her company, although chatting in the club was less than ideal. After a few hours, she again asked about a salida and I could tell I had "swept her off her feet". I said I would pay the salida but we would just go out and grab a bite and continue our conversation, no sex. She was shocked and I paid the salida. Unfortunately when she went up stairs to change she fell ill and came down apologizing and got me my money back. She went up to her room and I left.

Fast forward a few months and I am now single and take a buddy to the same place. My buddy was not single and was not really looking to play around but we had a few drinks and the same girl came over excited to see me, hugging and kissing like a school girl etc. After a few drinks we decide to pay the salida for her and her friend to go dancing with us. That way we can have a fun night and my buddy wouldn't be cheating on his girl.

Once at the club and at a normal disco, we had a blast. At one point she leaned in and kissed me and after a very long and passionate kiss pulled back sort of suprised and asked why I kissed her with so much "passion". . .I just shrugged and said that is how I kiss. She smiled and dove in for more. We danced all night and she looked incredible. I was 40+ and she was 22 and had a body that killed.

After we were all good and drunk and the disco was closing we somehow wound up back at my hotel and my buddy was even heading to the room with his chica. His chica knocked on my door for some condoms and I gave her a few and sent her on her way.

Me and my girl had an extreme GFE. All night long, it was like making love to my novia in every way. At one point during the heat of passion she looked into my eyes and said "never leave me". . . .she was dead serious. . . . .freaked me out.

In the morning, more of the same and although the bar that she worked at had a fine to pay if the girls were not back by 11 am, she stayed till 4:30 pm.
She gave me her number and finally left.

I called a few times and she had left the job and moved back to the campo, so we did not see each other for a while. She kept asking me to come to the campo, but I never made it. In the mean time I wound up taking 2 of her ex co workers out on salida over the course of say 6 months. Then I wound up reconciling with my novia. So. . . .the next time I went to that same bar. . . with my same buddy. . . who was now single. . .she was back at work! She came over and was pissed! Yelling at me in front of the whole place for "F#$king other women". . . lol. . .my buddy grabbed a girl and paid a salida and I told this girl I could not do a salida because I was back with my novia. She was steaming.

Later on we did salidas a few times when the novia and I had broken up for good. She was still a good GFE but not even close to before.

Fast Forward about a year. I am reading another board and a poster mentions her, though she was working in a different place. He posted her cell number which was the same and he complained that after the salida she made him stop for food. . . .she ordered shrimp. . . .then they stop for smokes. . . . then he needed to buy condoms as she didn't have any. Back in the room, no GFE and she is out the door in 1.5 hours instead of TLN. This guy was late 20s and a nice guy. . . .

In a short time I was able to watch a sweet and nice incredible GFE turn into hard core pro. I don't think she chose to be cold. . . .I think she learned to be cold. . . .for her own good.[/QUOTE]

This is a response to the thoughtful and wise posts left by Prtyr2, Carlos, and WastedG...I appreciate all of your comments, and I agree with your individual assessments of my circumstances. However, your assessments of the true circumstances that exist now are not, in themselves, going to alter the ultimate effects on any bar girl working in Monterrey.

In the case of my own "G" girl for example, if her character and personality are not strong enough to cancel out the effects of her profession on her psyche, then she will learn to be cold whether I see her or not, whether I treat her nicely, with care and concern, or whether I treat her like crap.

She will develop into whatever she becomes whether she sees me or not because "she" has choosen that lifestyle. The responsibility is hers. I have, of course, encouraged her to leave that lifestyle because I care about my friend, and the damaging effects of that profession on most girls. But, the ultimate decision is hers. She claims that she has herself together, and that she is unchanged in two years. Frankly, she does strike me as a girl with a very strong personality, and I would not doubt that she will be able to prevail. Some are quite good at prevailing well, even through all the demands of their profession. Take the "R" Girl at the "I" place. She seems virtually unchanged over the course of many years. Of course, it could all be a charade on her part, and she might be ready to kill herself in reality, but I think not.

But, here is the bottom line...and frankly, I think my perspective is pretty hard core...I don't mean to sound insensitive to "G's" feelings, because I am not. But ultimately this IS the bottom line for her, and any other girl I come in contact with, especially now when funds are tight...

I visit Monterrey, incurring huge travel expenses, for the priveledge of seeing HOT girls. But, more importantly, I seek HOT girls that are also nice, sexy, friendly, sincerely affectionate, providing GFE encounters, etc...If they are not going to be available to me due to my own altruistic prohibition over what a bar girl might suddenly morph into, then there is no reason for me to continue visiting MTY. I can go to Colombia, the PI, Thailand, Indonesia, and countless other venues where GFE is readily available, and where the girls do not get paid if the GFE is not adequately delivered. I have had numerous GFE's all over the world, many of which have resulted in the same levels of emotion I am experiencing now in Monterrey with my girl. But, if all I can expect is ice cold, clinically delivered, routinely boring, encounters, then what is my motivation for returning to MTY. I choose instead to visit MTY, and to simply treat the girls well in anticipation of having them enjoy their time with me, ultimately resulting some of the time in GFE...that's it.

When I hear about the effects that their profession may or may not have on the typical bar girl, and I contemplate my own involvement in their potential demise, I regret being a party to their ultimate fate. I am certainly melancholy over being a participant in their eventual decline. But, how is my self imposed prohibition of GFE going to "save" them. They are not going to stop going on salidas, servicing men in the privados, stripping in the bars, etc...They are not going to stop longing for emotionally satisfying relationships. The way I see it, they are getting some level of fulfillment in an area of their lives that, according to them, is otherwise totally void of emotional caring and concern from a nice guy. Is it better that they get nothing out of it?

I am not the only man she will ever be exposed to...far from it. Initially, when she first started in the business, I paid her salida, and we had a satisfactory session. Over the course of many months, we have become friends, void of any physical contact too I might add. I am her friend, and now, apparently I am more to her. But, I can't change that. She feels the way she feels, just as I feel the way I feel.

As it stands now, she is apparently enjoying the ride. I treat her like I would treat any of the girls I take on salida. She likes our friendship, she likes to have fun with me, and she wants to spend time with me on her day off. She makes logistically difficult arrangements to be with me for long periods of time, arrangements that conflict with her job, family life, etc...sometimes 12-15 hours as a time, after work, days off, etc...

We have fun together in public, as friends, and while there is a strong measure of affection between us, I am always mindful to be quite controlled in public. She is mindful of society's taboos, and she attempts to be controlled with me in public, but the depth of her affections are something more than she can control in public, and she forgets who we are together, the gringo and the bar girl. She is a very affectionate and loving girl. It is something I can NOT give up, and the depth of her sincerity in those moments has NOTHING whatsoever to do with sex.

In private, the sex is great. From her own lips, the sex is great because there is a strong attraction, and she can detect a sincerity of affection, passion, and emotion between us that she does not find elsewhere. She tells me that seeing me is something she waits for, something she anticipates each month as almost some kind of desperate relief from the effects of her everyday lifestyle. Who knows if all that stuff is true. I think it's true, but who knows? I listen to it, and I figure that if it is true, it will probably not last very long. Frankly, I expect things to start cooling off sooner than later. But, her words to me are very, very, convincingly delivered, and at this juncture, I believe her. I don't know that I am always going to believe her, or that her emotional committment will endure...I doubt it.

So, if her words are true, then she gets something out of our seeing each other or she would call a halt to it. I can only see her for a short time, maybe once or twice a week each month, and then we are apart for quite a long time before I return. She tells me that she really looks forward to my coming back because she feels like I am an intimate, understanding, friend, with priveledges. She wants me in her life, and she wants to be there with me, wherever I am. It nourishes her in some way, just as it does me. She calls me her novio, and even, lately, she tells me that I occupy her thoughts like an esposo...HOW SWEET, VERDAD? But, the bottom line is...she gets something out of it, just as I do. She gets whatever emotional nurturing she desires and needs, plus whatever money I feel obligated to pay her, money that she does not request, but money that I give her because she is in "the business," and I choose to keep the legitimacy of our relationship in that realm. Of course, there are days that she does not charge me, such as her day off. But, those are days in which she has offered to come at no charge because she wants to enjoy her day off with me. On those days, I've told her that she does not have to have sex with me. Fortunately for me, on those days, she initiates sex, whether I want it or not.

I have explained in definite terms, regardless of my feelings for her, that I am not available to move to MTY, that I will never be her esposo, that I am not available to be a regular novio, not for anything long term, and that we are friends, with priveledges...that's it. I have encouraged her to find a legitimate novio, at the risk of my own sadness over possibly not being able to spend time with her anymore. I am her friend, afterall, and I sincerely hope she gets out of the business, finds a younger man to settled down with, and has a happy and healthy life. I voice my best wishes directly to her, advising her in direct contrast to my own fulfillment, and at my own ultimate expense, the loss of a really HOT, but more importantly, sincerely affectionate, girlfriend.

With respect to Carlos' comment "They think you are their property, which is not true,"

I agree with you 100%. Watch how quickly I find another girlfriend if and when "G" does not deliver the GFE. But, that having been said, I will not cultivate other relationships within the "I" place, not unless "G" fails in her responsibilities. That doesn't mean that I wish ill will on any of my present or former girlfriends, quite the contrary. They are all special to me, even Angry Girl, even in spite of her conceited attitude.

No...what I have concluded is that there are simply too many other bars in Monterrey where I can look for other girlfriends without risking the GFE I already have established in the "I" place with "G." Frankly, I believe I should have handled the "Angry Girl" situation differently as well, and I will not make the same mistake twice by playing girls against each other in the same bar. Had I handled the Angry Girl scenario differently, I would have actually possibly had two GFE candidates in the "I" place instead of the single option in the "G" girl.





[QUOTE=Carlos Perez]With the exception that Prtyr2 he doesn't live here like I do (and that I do not take the girls out) this guy has lived one of the several examples of things that have happened to me at the clubs.
1. My D girl at the O place. I though she was gone for sure, suddenly she pops up and goes ballistic cause she now knows I have been seeing a "substitute".
2. Just this Friday, and this is a pointer for Prtyr2, one of my girls at the I place, while getting mauled by me at the privados said "I f***g like you". I never pay attention to those words. It's just rambling by the girls Prtyr2. their emotional center just kicks in and they say the first words that come in mind. They might mean it, but then again, they are pros and business comes back to mind, like the girl that was angry with you after her abscence. They think you are their property, which is not true.[/QUOTE]

Hmmm. . .I may not have been clear enough:

1- the salida at said establishment is not really a salida but you pay up front for the chica. The house gets half and the girl gets half, so she would have made money for NOT having sex.

2- salida with sex and disco and money. . .yeah of course she was sold. She also had to pay a fine for going back late. Basically half of what she made. I did not know this at the time, but learned of the house rules shortly there after.

3-I am not jaded enough not to believe in love. I am also not naive enough to attempt a relationship with a hooker. Friendship. . .sure. . . anything more. . . nope.

I have been around the block more than a few times and can tell when I am being sold a bill of goods. . . .which is most of the time. . . .lol.. . .

My point is NO chica wakes up one day as a hardcore hooker that has given up on love. It is a gradual process. In the beginning many would gladly settle down with a guy that treats them right etc.

In many latin countries a poor girl gets knocked up by some guy. Once she has a kid, he ditches her and most of the "good catches" in her country. . . . .of which there are few. . . .will have NOTHING to do with another man's child. Some of these girls buy into the fantasy at first just as many newbies here do. . . . .with more time in the biz they harden and newbies get smarter. . . it's just the way it is. . .

There are plenty of women in the same situation that don't get in the business and make great novias and wives. I could never deal with all the baggage of trying anything long term with a working girl, but I have seen guys try it and succeed.


[QUOTE=Wastedgman]Excellent post Partyr. This reply is not for you but I am using your post because it applies more to me, if you don't mind:

Again, I am torn. Let's see .. at the risk of being rude .. there must be .. 50 ways to leave your lover.

Salida with no sex and no money? What a coincident, she got sick --> refund.

Salida with disco, sex and money .. Sold.

I do the same .. take 5 girls to disco, sex and money and live like I own the place.. They always come back for more.

Love? What is that? Love with money? Sure. They ask you to never leave them and come live in MTY.

What I want to say is: Them girls love us so long as we pay. Gold diggers? Absolutely. Lovers? Doubt it.

Was it Tina Turner? "I'm your private dancer, a dancer for money, do what you want me to do"?

Carlos' "D" girl at the "O" wanted to kill him, with my help, because he bought another girl a drink. to her, it is money lost. That should've been her drink.

Partyr's girl "Yelling at me in front of the whole place for "F#$king other women". Again, lost money she thought she was entitled to.

Get the picture? You are a paying customer. (Carlos’ famous words)

My old "D" girl destroyed the club once because I was setting with another girl. I argued that she was servicing other men. She argued that this was her job. How the hell do I argue with that? She ended up handcuffed and spent 3 nights in jail.

Lat week, she gave one mofu the full service upstairs in the booth across from where I was. Then she swears to me that she never does sex upstairs. I answered that I did not have sex either while she watched me butt f**k a girl. We were the only 2 couple upstairs. AND She believed me.

My good friends, your GFE lasts while she is with you. Once she's gone, she is looking for the next John to give another GFE to. Get it through your head.

Wasted[/QUOTE]

I agree that there is little you can do to stop the chain of events. Just be aware of them which you appear to be. I was just making a point that not many chicas wake up one day as a hard core *****. . . . I have seen the progression with many a girl. . . . . and I totally understand it.

OTOH. . . .I have seen some non pros, get burned by guys that playe them and lead them on. . . . .getting "freebies" with no intention of anything long term. At first the girl clings to the "dream" of meeting a genuinely nice guy that may be an option for the future. . . .but if she gets played too often. . . they start to "accept" gifts as a way to hedge their bets against feeling played and used. . . . .from there it is just a matter of time till they are hard core hookers as well.


[QUOTE=UnospongeBob]This is a response to the thoughtful and wise posts left by Prtyr2, Carlos, and WastedG...I appreciate all of your comments, and I agree with your individual assessments of my circumstances. However, your assessments of the true circumstances that exist now are not, in themselves, going to alter the ultimate effects on any bar girl working in Monterrey.

In the case of my own "G" girl for example, if her character and personality are not strong enough to cancel out the effects of her profession on her psyche, then she will learn to be cold whether I see her or not, whether I treat her nicely, with care and concern, or whether I treat her like crap.

She will develop into whatever she becomes whether she sees me or not because "she" has choosen that lifestyle. The responsibility is hers. I have, of course, encouraged her to leave that lifestyle because I care about my friend, and the damaging effects of that profession on most girls. But, the ultimate decision is hers. She claims that she has herself together, and that she is unchanged in two years. Frankly, she does strike me as a girl with a very strong personality, and I would not doubt that she will be able to prevail. Some are quite good at prevailing well, even through all the demands of their profession. Take the "R" Girl at the "I" place. She seems virtually unchanged over the course of many years. Of course, it could all be a charade on her part, and she might be ready to kill herself in reality, but I think not.

But, here is the bottom line...and frankly, I think my perspective is pretty hard core...I don't mean to sound insensitive to "G's" feelings, because I am not. But ultimately this IS the bottom line for her, and any other girl I come in contact with, especially now when funds are tight...

I visit Monterrey, incurring huge travel expenses, for the priveledge of seeing HOT girls. But, more importantly, I seek HOT girls that are also nice, sexy, friendly, sincerely affectionate, providing GFE encounters, etc...If they are not going to be available to me due to my own altruistic prohibition over what a bar girl might suddenly morph into, then there is no reason for me to continue visiting MTY. I can go to Colombia, the PI, Thailand, Indonesia, and countless other venues where GFE is readily available, and where the girls do not get paid if the GFE is not adequately delivered. I have had numerous GFE's all over the world, many of which have resulted in the same levels of emotion I am experiencing now in Monterrey with my girl. But, if all I can expect is ice cold, clinically delivered, routinely boring, encounters, then what is my motivation for returning to MTY. I choose instead to visit MTY, and to simply treat the girls well in anticipation of having them enjoy their time with me, ultimately resulting some of the time in GFE...that's it.

When I hear about the effects that their profession may or may not have on the typical bar girl, and I contemplate my own involvement in their potential demise, I regret being a party to their ultimate fate. I am certainly melancholy over being a participant in their eventual decline. But, how is my self imposed prohibition of GFE going to "save" them. They are not going to stop going on salidas, servicing men in the privados, stripping in the bars, etc...They are not going to stop longing for emotionally satisfying relationships. The way I see it, they are getting some level of fulfillment in an area of their lives that, according to them, is otherwise totally void of emotional caring and concern from a nice guy. Is it better that they get nothing out of it?

I am not the only man she will ever be exposed to...far from it. Initially, when she first started in the business, I paid her salida, and we had a satisfactory session. Over the course of many months, we have become friends, void of any physical contact too I might add. I am her friend, and now, apparently I am more to her. But, I can't change that. She feels the way she feels, just as I feel the way I feel.

As it stands now, she is apparently enjoying the ride. I treat her like I would treat any of the girls I take on salida. She likes our friendship, she likes to have fun with me, and she wants to spend time with me on her day off. She makes logistically difficult arrangements to be with me for long periods of time, arrangements that conflict with her job, family life, etc...sometimes 12-15 hours as a time, after work, days off, etc...

We have fun together in public, as friends, and while there is a strong measure of affection between us, I am always mindful to be quite controlled in public. She is mindful of society's taboos, and she attempts to be controlled with me in public, but the depth of her affections are something more than she can control in public, and she forgets who we are together, the gringo and the bar girl. She is a very affectionate and loving girl. It is something I can NOT give up, and the depth of her sincerity in those moments has NOTHING whatsoever to do with sex.

In private, the sex is great. From her own lips, the sex is great because there is a strong attraction, and she can detect a sincerity of affection, passion, and emotion between us that she does not find elsewhere. She tells me that seeing me is something she waits for, something she anticipates each month as almost some kind of desperate relief from the effects of her everyday lifestyle. Who knows if all that stuff is true. I think it's true, but who knows? I listen to it, and I figure that if it is true, it will probably not last very long. Frankly, I expect things to start cooling off sooner than later. But, her words to me are very, very, convincingly delivered, and at this juncture, I believe her. I don't know that I am always going to believe her, or that her emotional committment will endure...I doubt it.

So, if her words are true, then she gets something out of our seeing each other or she would call a halt to it. I can only see her for a short time, maybe once or twice a week each month, and then we are apart for quite a long time before I return. She tells me that she really looks forward to my coming back because she feels like I am an intimate, understanding, friend, with priveledges. She wants me in her life, and she wants to be there with me, wherever I am. It nourishes her in some way, just as it does me. She calls me her novio, and even, lately, she tells me that I occupy her thoughts like an esposo...HOW SWEET, VERDAD? But, the bottom line is...she gets something out of it, just as I do. She gets whatever emotional nurturing she desires and needs, plus whatever money I feel obligated to pay her, money that she does not request, but money that I give her because she is in "the business," and I choose to keep the legitimacy of our relationship in that realm. Of course, there are days that she does not charge me, such as her day off. But, those are days in which she has offered to come at no charge because she wants to enjoy her day off with me. On those days, I've told her that she does not have to have sex with me. Fortunately for me, on those days, she initiates sex, whether I want it or not.

I have explained in definite terms, regardless of my feelings for her, that I am not available to move to MTY, that I will never be her esposo, that I am not available to be a regular novio, not for anything long term, and that we are friends, with priveledges...that's it. I have encouraged her to find a legitimate novio, at the risk of my own sadness over possibly not being able to spend time with her anymore. I am her friend, afterall, and I sincerely hope she gets out of the business, finds a younger man to settled down with, and has a happy and healthy life. I voice my best wishes directly to her, advising her in direct contrast to my own fulfillment, and at my own ultimate expense, the loss of are really HOT, affectionate, seemingly sincere girlfriend.

With respect to Carlos' comment "They think you are their property, which is not true,"

I agree with you 100%. Watch how quickly I find another girlfriend if and when "G" does not deliver the GFE. But, that having been said, I will not cultivate other relationships within the "I" place, not unless "G" fails in her responsibilities. That doesn't mean that I wish ill will on any of my present or former girlfriends, quite the contrary. They are all special to me, even Angry Girl, even in spite of her conceited attitude.

No...what I have concluded is that there are simply too many other bars in Monterrey where I can look for other girlfriends without risking the GFE I already have established in the "I" place with "G." Frankly, I believe I should have handled the "Angry Girl" situation differently as well, and I will not make the same mistake twice by playing girls against each other in the same bar. Had I handled the Angry Girl scenario differently, I would have actually possibly had two GFE candidates in the "I" place instead of the single option in the "G" girl.[/QUOTE]

I don't live in Mexico but have lived in the Dominican republic on and off for a few years. So I have been around the block many times.I have had tons of girls say whatever popped into her head and what she may think I wanted to hear etc. In the case I mentioned. . . .do to the timing of the comment and the look in her eyes. . . . I would bet my life she was serious. . . .and that was NOT what I wanted to hear;-)

Now to steer this back to Monterrey. . . . since you live there and know the city. What places do you recommend to just hang out and have a few drinks and maybe flirt with non working girls? I am not going there for a mongering vacation so there is no real pressure to get laid etc. . . .I enjoy getting to know new cities and people etc. . . .if I get lucky. . . .so be it! If not. . . .no biggy.



[QUOTE=Carlos Perez]With the exception that Prtyr2 he doesn't live here like I do (and that I do not take the girls out) this guy has lived one of the several examples of things that have happened to me at the clubs.
1. My D girl at the O place. I though she was gone for sure, suddenly she pops up and goes ballistic cause she now knows I have been seeing a "substitute".
2. Just this Friday, and this is a pointer for Prtyr2, one of my girls at the I place, while getting mauled by me at the privados said "I f***g like you". I never pay attention to those words. It's just rambling by the girls Prtyr2. their emotional center just kicks in and they say the first words that come in mind. They might mean it, but then again, they are pros and business comes back to mind, like the girl that was angry with you after her abscence. They think you are their property, which is not true.[/QUOTE]

I agree with your conclusions completely my friend. No disagreement here.

With respect to the circumstance where the girls are "hoping" for the romance, affection, caring, concern, love, etc...that's missing in their lives...my girl is in that same stage of life.

She would love to find a nice novio, eventually marry him, stop working in the bar, raise her son within a loving family, and ultimately live a relatively simply, but happy life.

That is my only regret, seeing my friend pine away for a normal, loving, relationship, and also knowing that I can not provide it for her. She knows I can't provide it, and that I specifically do not promise it. I can sometimes tell that my mere presence serves to remind her of what is missing. She apparently sees in our encounters, the root of her desires in life. That is what hurts me the most. Que Lastima, Verdad?

[QUOTE=Prtyr2]I agree that there is little you can do to stop the chain of events. Just be aware of them which you appear to be. I was just making a point that not many chicas wake up one day as a hard core *****. . . . I have seen the progression with many a girl. . . . . and I totally understand it.

OTOH. . . .I have seen some non pros, get burned by guys that playe them and lead them on. . . . .getting "freebies" with no intention of anything long term. At first the girl clings to the "dream" of meeting a genuinely nice guy that may be an option for the future. . . .but if she gets played too often. . . they start to "accept" gifts as a way to hedge their bets against feeling played and used. . . . .from there it is just a matter of time till they are hard core hookers as well.[/QUOTE]