Kyiv

[QUOTE=Cruiser D;1391653]The second is more interesting and goes to show you how much the crisis affected and continues to affect Ukraine. A business associate of mine told me he ran afoul of this scheme at Arena of all places; it wasn't a silly scam being done by girls but by the management of Arena. Apparently Arena is putting teams of girls in the Beer Pub and in the new Disco, Decadence to pretending to be normal girls out for a night of fun but in reality are working for Arena and are just looking to rope the men into taking them (and spending a lot of money) at the Arena Cabaret strip club. My friend didn't realize until too late what was going on and waste some prime time inviting and entertaining them at Decadence. My friend assures me 100% about this. I find behavior like this from a place like Arena that caters to foreign men despicable.[/QUOTE]Are you sure they were connected to management? Places like Arena and Avalon have reputations to up hold. If it was true and word got out they were screwing customers, it would be "the kiss of death". Also, if the political mafia bosses come to understand tourists are being ripped off, that would open the doors to all kinds of problems for the proprietors. Is it possible Arena and Arena cabaret are separate entities and one is using the other as a hunting ground?

That said, people do desperate things in bad times and thanks for the heads up.

[QUOTE=Roll Buzz;1391748]Hello CD, a good information and I can verify that I have experienced this in Avalon, a club I like more than I want to admit. I normally play rather generous game there, but two girls kept insisting to go downstairs and have sushi, and implied that afterwards, heaven would probably wait for us. But after a dinner for four, they misterously disappeared to the toilet for a very long time, except I met one of them a little later, and she obviously felt bad about the whole thing. But I guess they are controlled by management or something, and there was little I could do to change the situation. Prime time spent! I also want to say, this is not very common there.[/QUOTE]Sounds more like they wanted a meal that most Ukrainians can't afford.

[QUOTE=Climaxnow;1391838]Sounds more like they wanted a meal that most Ukrainians can't afford.[/QUOTE]Admittedly, I have no solid proof. But I have photo of one of the girls dancing, if I can still find it, I should post it here. Your theory is just as good as mine, and maybe someone here knows the girl to shed some elementary light on the case.

Avoid this girl, she's a scam artist. She'll take your money and run:

[url]http://flirt.com.ua/anketa.phtml?oid=1055144377[/url]

[QUOTE=Polo79; 1391885]Avoid this girl, she's a scam artist. She'll take your money and run:

[url]http://flirt.com.ua/anketa.phtml?oid=1055144377[/url][/QUOTE]One of the rules is.

When girl inside, close the door and lock it. Take the key to good place, let not know her where the key is.

About Mamba.

Do you know how to copy & past from the message text to a translator? It only work for me when I have pass 9 messages. An auther question. How do you send and receive SMS phonemessages in Cyrillic? I think the best will be to do it from a computer, so I can use translator.

[QUOTE=Harry Hirsch; 1392189]One of the rules is.

When girl inside, close the door and lock it. Take the key to good place, let not know her where the key is.[/QUOTE]Good advice, but not always possible. Some doors can be unlocked and opened from the inside without a key. Most hotels are like that. Lesson learned the hard way. I'll never forget the hot young ***** in Dallas who simply waited until I was in the shower to traipse out of my hotel room, after demanding the money up front. Solutions are to ask the girl to shower together, which many girls won't do. Or to have her shower first, but make sure she leaves her clothing in the bathroom and gets into bed naked to wait for you to finish your shower.

[quote=roll buzz;1391748]hello cd, a good information and i can verify that i have experienced this in avalon, a club i like more than i want to admit. i normally play rather generous game there, but two girls kept insisting to go downstairs and have sushi, and implied that afterwards, heaven would probably wait for us. but after a dinner for four, they misterously disappeared to the toilet for a very long time, except i met one of them a little later, and she obviously felt bad about the whole thing. but i guess they are controlled by management or something, and there was little i could do to change the situation. prime time spent! i also want to say, this is not very common there.[/quote]bar girls who are commissioned on the drinks they get you to buy, are a routine fixture in many locations throughout the world, and are understood by everyone to be promising to sit with you only for as long as it takes them to drink the drink, and no more. this story about girls in avalon, as well as cd's story about girls in arena, promising or implying sexual favors for extra spending, takes matters in kiev to a new level of mendacity.

it reminds me of the raw bad faith exhibited by many strip clubs in budapest that i read about and experienced first hand a few years back. these strip clubs in budapest had girls in them, but if you peeked in the door you would see no other male customers there. if you were swayed into sitting down with some of the pretty girls, you immediately incurred a minimum house fee plus the inflated prices of drinks for the girl who sat with you. then if you ordered the $300 bottle of champagne you were promised that the girl would come home with you to your hotel. since the price was certainly high enough to include sex, and budapest had many girls available for sex for even less money, and had stripclubs from where it was possible to take out a girl from, it was possible to believe the promise of the champagne date. however, it was a scam. the tip off was the presence of no other men at these particular strip clubs. on the internet one could find the info that branded the bad strip clubs as rip off operations, and identified the strip clubs whose operations were legit. the baboons operating the rip off strip clubs in budapest were operating under an eastern bloc mentality that pre-dated the fall of the iron curtain in 1991, and the most important advent of the internet. their antiquated business model of fuck and rip off the tourists, since there is always a new sucker that will come through the door that didn't hear about their rip off tactics, was bound to fizzle under the blinding light of scrutiny and information available to everyone on the internet. why didn't these eastern european mafia types understand that the correct business model in the internet age is to provide a good product or service and gain business from publicity of satisfied customers on the internet? why did they prefer the abusive business model, instead of just selling the girl's pussy for $300, which was surely profitable? it was surely the mentality of contempt they were born into in the soviet bloc toward western countries and tourists. and their mentality of contempt became outdated in the internet age and the advent of capitalism in their country. scrutiny and widely available information about their foul play that the internet made possible destroyed their ability to deceive, and other more forward thinking businesses who decided to make money by providing a good service or product took over the market. people just found out about which places were identified as rip off and stayed away.

that is the solution here in kiev too. the businesses and the individual girls who engage in rip off practices need to be "outed" and exposed by reporting on the internet, as you are doing and more of it. rb's idea of photographing should be expanded. since our membership has been warned by cd and rb about rip off practices being engaged in at arena and avalon, it stands to reason that it could also be in place at other locations. here is the suggestion: it is really hard to know if anything nefarious is afoot when a girl is just being friendly like a normal girl and letting you buy her a drink at a nightclub, which is a normal thing that goes on between men and women world over. however, the minute a girl asks for something out of the ordinary, and more expensive than offered, it should raise a suspicion in our minds. at that point, we should ask the girl for a photo to remember the wonderful time we are having with her, and maybe ask to see her i'd to make sure she is not **** before we fall in love with her, or some other pretext to get her photo and real name, that i can't think of, but invite you all to come up with. if she goes along with it, then she's probably legit. if she balks at it, then she probably has bad motives, and you can make the decision then on whether to spend more extravagantly on her or not. in the end, if there is a rip off, you should report and expose it by reporting and "out" the girls with pictures. the negative info will accumulate and their business will suffer because of the exposure.

If anyone of you guys can give heads up about Lena from Rio that would be appreciated, or rather if anyone had experience with her.

I would suggest to have a trusted native speaker while out and about in Kiev, Ukraine. That alone will ensure that you would be exploited or lured like a sucker, as by and large locals are aware of all those innoculous looking scams and will warn you accordingly.

100%. I used to know a couple of girls that used to perform this job for Avalon.

[QUOTE=Roll Buzz;1391748]Hello CD, a good information and I can verify that I have experienced this in Avalon, a club I like more than I want to admit. I normally play rather generous game there, but two girls kept insisting to go downstairs and have sushi, and implied that afterwards, heaven would probably wait for us. But after a dinner for four, they misterously disappeared to the toilet for a very long time, except I met one of them a little later, and she obviously felt bad about the whole thing. But I guess they are controlled by management or something, and there was little I could do to change the situation. Prime time spent! I also want to say, this is not very common there.[/QUOTE]

90% of these places are operating out of Salons / Apartments in the center.

The chances of the girl in the photo show up are a little less than zero.

You might get a girl who is as good looking or better but 7 times out of 10 you are getting a lesser girl.

If you want to play this type of Russian Roulette I suggest taking the time to go to the apartments. Tell the house mom exactly what you are looking for and that you are not interested in anything else.

[QUOTE=LilJoey;1391815]I usually go through the ads and take note of the different ads that share a common telephone number, which indicates a common source,[/QUOTE]

Climax, part of the problem with the business climate in Ukraine is that native thinking is it is good business practices to rip people off, Foreign, even better.

I am 100% on this. You have been warned, do with it as you will.

[QUOTE=Climaxnow; 1391837]Are you sure they were connected to management? Places like Arena and Avalon have reputations to up hold. If it was true and word got out they were screwing customers, it would be "the kiss of death". Also, if the political mafia bosses come to understand tourists are being ripped off, that would open the doors to all kinds of problems for the proprietors. Is it possible Arena and Arena cabaret are separate entities and one is using the other as a hunting ground?

That said, people do desperate things in bad times and thanks for the heads up.[/QUOTE]

The google translate app will tranlate sms's.

You can 'Select All' to translate mamba messages.

[QUOTE=Soren60; 1392211]About Mamba.

Do you know how to copy & past from the message text to a translator? It only work for me when I have pass 9 messages. An auther question. How do you send and receive SMS phonemessages in Cyrillic? I think the best will be to do it from a computer, so I can use translator.[/QUOTE]

Obviously you are too busy to brag in the Kiev thread about the piranhas you allegedly pick up to read the other forums. As a matter of fact, I reported about some Moscow high-end restaurants / clubs I've been to recently. And yeah, Kiev is a sex-tourism mecca filled of seedy sex-starving foreigners harrassing the girls in the streets, the malls, the bars, ect. Pathetic. I'd take anyday Tashkent, Vladikavkaz or Novokuznetsk over Kiev. And yeah, if I was ukrainian, it would [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140][CodeWord140][/url] me off and I wouldn't hesitate to try to elicit the most money out of those loosers.