German FKK Clubs - Lounge and chat area

The biggest thrill about using sugar babies is that you can have Girls from almost every corner of the earth and not just Romanians!! I've had a few Russians, Iranian, Latinas from Mexico and Peru, Germans, Moroccans and even an Israeli girl. One of them was a long term thing with a young Mexican girl in her early 20's. I remember one particular weekend where I had 3 different SB girls abs then went to an FKK (Harmony) for 7 more fucks. It's more romantic in many ways and the best part is just before your first kiss and then just before you fuck! What surprises me is how easily girls in their 20's are ready to have sex with you for money. I've paid from 300 to 500 Euro in Europe and much less in Latin America. I now use SB website about a week before I am going to any country on business to hook up with a girl so I know I've got a very high chance of sex with a hot girl there! What's even more surprising to me is how normal porn has made activities that were once considered taboo or perverse. Some really stunning 10's /11 can be had but they inevitably want more money. A couple of models who did this on the side in the USA wanted 2000 usd though you can usually get them down to a 1000 if you have charm. Russians in London tend to be the most expensive. I've done everything I've done in FKKs with sugar babes too! So yes it's a good option if you are away from FKK land of Germany Austria Switzerland. You can also build real relationships. I almost got married to one of my ex sugar babes!!

Interestingly, Dennis Hof won the election despite passing a couple weeks ago.

How much do you guys pay there sugarbabies? Say the cheapest one and the most expensive. And then there is a membership fee for the site also?

[QUOTE=Sybarite2006;2245653]The biggest thrill about using sugar babies is that you can have Girls from almost every corner of the earth and not just Romanians!! I've had a few Russians, Iranian, Latinas from Mexico and Peru, Germans, Moroccans and even an Israeli girl. One of them was a long term thing with a young Mexican girl in her early 20's. I remember one particular weekend where I had 3 different SB girls abs then went to an FKK (Harmony) for 7 more fucks. It's more romantic in many ways and the best part is just before your first kiss and then just before you fuck! What surprises me is how easily girls in their 20's are ready to have sex with you for money. I've paid from 300 to 500 Euro in Europe and much less in Latin America. I now use SB website about a week before I am going to any country on business to hook up with a girl so I know I've got a very high chance of sex with a hot girl there! What's even more surprising to me is how normal porn has made activities that were once considered taboo or perverse. Some really stunning 10's /11 can be had but they inevitably want more money. A couple of models who did this on the side in the USA wanted 2000 usd though you can usually get them down to a 1000 if you have charm. Russians in London tend to be the most expensive. I've done everything I've done in FKKs with sugar babes too! So yes it's a good option if you are away from FKK land of Germany Austria Switzerland. You can also build real relationships. I almost got married to one of my ex sugar babes!![/QUOTE]We already have this at German FKK, diversity of line up is not bad at all still.

It is just that comparison to before some nationalities has become rarity in German FKK, but we still have diversity of line up in most FKK.

As for Romanians, it already has been majority of line up since 2009 or 2010 when I joined German FKK world. Back then there were more Germans, Czech, Hungarian, polish in line up, which are now more rare. I do miss those day.

However, we still do find.

She was not stunner but good for 30 min session only, but I must say when I found real Estonian working in gt, it was quite a surprise to me.

I hope in near future, if UK do leave EU, then I hope more eastern European nation will join EU and more girls from there come and work in German FKK, which will put more smile on us mongers face.

I am glad that I was still able to taste, 2009 to 2014 ish years of good mixed line up, but it is still good enough for me to make way to German FKK at least once per year or bit more, still diversified good enough line up with fewer stunner present in line up.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2245888]How much do you guys pay there sugarbabies? Say the cheapest one and the most expensive. And then there is a membership fee for the site also?[/QUOTE]Site membership is not cheap. Seems that $150-200 is the low end for encounters. I hear good things from mongers who indulge in this style.

For me, it seems like a lot of set up work in addition to the cost. All of the leg work seems to be almost as much trouble as using Tinder for free. It's seems like half mongering and half dating with training wheels.

I really don't think anyone on this German FKK forum should get worked up about the sugar baby scene. I have quite a bit of experience in this field. LOL. It really is not comparable in any way to an FKK. First and foremost it is a lot of work. Don't let anyone tell you different. I have hooked up straight away by meeting them at their house and have had to meet and pretty much date a few to get some action. Messages, checking messages, making plans to meet. The whole works. It is pretty much the same as dating but you pay her.

Price wise I have got it for free since the girl liked me and wasn't pro enough at all to ask for anything. I have paid 200 for about 1. 5 hours with an absolute smoke show. Most top notch girls want 500 to hook up. It's all a lot of work and if you go on tinder all the same stuff is available for free if you're decent looking. I would just say not at all comparable or a substitute for FKK.

[QUOTE=SevenIron;2245990]I really don't think anyone on this German FKK forum should get worked up about the sugar baby scene. I have quite a bit of experience in this field. LOL. It really is not comparable in any way to an FKK. First and foremost it is a lot of work. Don't let anyone tell you different. I have hooked up straight away by meeting them at their house and have had to meet and pretty much date a few to get some action. Messages, checking messages, making plans to meet. The whole works. It is pretty much the same as dating but you pay her.

Price wise I have got it for free since the girl liked me and wasn't pro enough at all to ask for anything. I have paid 200 for about 1. 5 hours with an absolute smoke show. Most top notch girls want 500 to hook up. It's all a lot of work and if you go on tinder all the same stuff is available for free if you're decent looking. I would just say not at all comparable or a substitute for FKK.[/QUOTE]I agree with all your points and the SB route is a pain is the tushy and does have similarities to dating and aspects to it that I simply don't want to deal with. You are right, the guys are still paying for it and even if there is pussy involved money is still a focal point. However,

I don't think the OP's intent was to suggest the SB route is directly comparable to an FKK and certainly I don't think he (or they) would substitute it for the FKK experience if given the option I would bet he would be in an FKK club in a heart beat if he could. But he can't. Neither can I. We are Americans stuck in prison. We have to go to the next best thing. See the below reply from McA.

[QUOTE=McAdonis;2245511]Thanks for sharing. Very informative. I have been admittedly FKK heavy, but I think every monger should diversify his portfolio. Several among us do believe that the "precious princess" syndrome is spreading in many mainstream FKK clubs, so maybe it is time to pivot away from the FKK scene. I mean I don't think I could ever stop FKK completely, sometimes I am just in the mood to have sex with a lot of women in a short span of time!
[/QUOTE]I think this is where the SB discussion is relevant here not irrelevant. The diversification of the portfolio mentioned above is what I have always called ' irons in the fire'; and agree with. I think the PPS is spreading as well so all of us mongers need to spread our wings somehow and the SB scene is still a form of P4 P and might be a way to pivot for some. In my case I will always be paying for it, SB is not for me as it takes work as 7 Iron noted, something I am not willing to do. I did however add in the RLD (went 6 times) this past ten days as a pivot and today noticed a price drop on Delta and called them up to pivot away from Frankfurt and rerouted an upcoming trip in to Dusseldorf instead as not only is mainstream Hessen clubs losing its luster for me but Day Care is getting boring too and a few are on probation now for the first time.

We are all mongers and sex addicts so be it a pivot or a complement I find the SB discussion here relevant especially as a tourist from North America as we need something to do with our dicks in between trips as there really isn't shit in the USA so all the power to the guys who can pluck some good pussy off a SB site, even if they still are paying for it in some way, shape or form. Even with money I do not think they want to fuck this aging man with a growing gut so to those guys who can get it for cheap or free kudos to them.

FWIW the surviving American boards out there have SB sections as well as tons of mongers are using it now. It really is another P4 P form. However you are right, it is work, effort, takes time and money and isn't for me but to each their own. Just my two cents.

I often saw here on FKK forum that many posters wrote their reports talking about how excellent GFE (girlfriend experience) they had in FKK clubs and GFE became the ultimate goal of session for vast majority (if not most) of them, which implies that it is also the ultimate goal for vast majority (if not most) of FKK mongers. My questions to them are: Really? Did they really feel they had GFE with their WGs when they saw their WGs fucked one or two old and ugly men right before their sessions started and saw one or two other fat and old men fucked their WGs right after their sessions ended? Is this psychologically and mentally GFE, which should be the ultimate goal for them? In my opinion, the environment of FKK club is not the environments for GFE and it is one of the worst environments of all types of sex establishments for GFE.

The fundamental difference between the FKK WGs and Sugarbabes is that FKK WGs fuck anyone who knocks their doors, while Sugarbabes are not professionals and most of them have regular jobs or are looking for regular jobs, and they don't fuck everyone knocking their doors and actually they don't fuck vast majority (if not most) of the men who are interested in them. So when someone is with Sugarbabe, he feels much more like he is with his real girlfriend than when he is with FKK WG, Feeling like with real girlfriend should be the ultimate goal for the mongers who look for GFE, and that can be much better delivered by Sugarbabes.

I wouldn't rule out that Sugarbabe is the substitute of WGs. Maybe for most mongers including me Sugarbabe has been ruled out as the substitute of WGs, but for very affluent mongers Sugarbabe can be the substitute of WGs. Some mongers from America may know that some rich dudes rent models or aspiring actresses on a monthly basis and this is one form of sugarbabes.

As Kosher Kowboy said, to each their own.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2245888]How much do you guys pay there sugarbabies? Say the cheapest one and the most expensive. [/QUOTE]As SevenIron said, Final price can be anywhere from zero to very high. Personally I always want to pay ironically, because if you don't pay, it usually means there are some other commitments attached to it such as becoming her boyfriend and so on, unless the girl is 18 or 19 years old, who usually look for love. Personally I never paid more than 150 euro per session with any sugarbabe and never got and never will get into any monthly contract with any sugarbabe. For example, I had three sessions with the girl I mentioned in my previous post. Second and third session costed me 100 euro each for 45 minutes which is enough for me, then I got bored with her and abandoned her. Your tactics and strategy of approaching them is very important and ultimately decides how much you have to pay.

I tried a sugarbabe site once. Found one very hot 19 year old I was chatting with. But she got cold feet about the whole thing. The substitute I found was not that pretty, and was a bit full of herself like a queen, while not being more than a 7+. Figurred I either need to live in a city like London to get a greater availability, or just forget about sugarbabes altogether. Plus it took way too much time.

[QUOTE=Bfsie;2246220]I often saw here on FKK forum that many posters wrote their reports talking about how excellent GFE (girlfriend experience) they had in FKK clubs and GFE became the ultimate goal of session for vast majority (if not most) of them, which implies that it is also the ultimate goal for vast majority (if not most) of FKK mongers. My questions to them are: Really? Did they really feel they had GFE with their WGs when they saw their WGs fucked one or two old and ugly men right before their sessions started and saw one or two other fat and old men fucked their WGs right after their sessions ended? Is this psychologically and mentally GFE, which should be the ultimate goal for them? In my opinion, the environment of FKK club is not the environments for GFE and it is one of the worst environments of all types of sex establishments for GFE.[/QUOTE]I agree with this paragraph 100 percent, specifically two points: (1) vast majority of mongers are looking for GFE and (2) FKK is one of the worst types of paid sex for GFE. To your other question: when a GFE-seeking mongers sees "two fat and old men" fucking his FKK wife, I believe his stance would be that "She fucks him only for the money. He needs to pay 500 EUR for 5 hours to obtain good service. She pretends to like him. She pretends to orgasm. She gives me her best service for 100 EUR in the 60 minute session and likes me for more than my money". Then there is a faction of GFE-seeking mongers, who can almost turn their desire for GFE fantasy on and off like a switch. He only needs GFE for the 60 minutes they are in the room. He wants DEEP, DEEP french kissing, cuddling. When the room is over, if they ignore each other in the lounge or go back to being two complete strangers, he is fine with that. This latter group is much more rare. Ultimately, I share your confusion, so I will defer to GFE-seeking mongers to explain themselves.

Evidence is never proof. It depends on how one wants to evaluate that evidence. With topics that are emotionally charged, such as love, politics, or religion, it is difficult if not impossible to evaluate the evidence objectively. [URL]https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/ulterior-motives/201107/you-end-believing-what-you-want-believe[/URL].

Many smart, rational people I know stayed on with failing projects and businesses too long because they were emotionally invested. They wanted to believe that their project or business would bounce back. Many girlfriends stay with boyfriends who they shouldn't, thinking that the man will stop cheating on them or stop beating them. They are unable to face the truth, because they've invested so much in the relationship. It is called the "sunk cost fallacy". Many mongers may believe that the WG will become their wife eventually. They've dropped thousands of EUR already. They simply are not ready to give up on their dream yet, so they can easily dismiss any evidence that is presented to them.

[QUOTE=Bfsie;2246220]The fundamental difference between the FKK WGs and Sugarbabes is that FKK WGs fuck anyone who knocks their doors, while Sugarbabes are not professionals and most of them have regular jobs or are looking for regular jobs, and they don't fuck everyone knocking their doors and actually they don't fuck vast majority (if not most) of the men who are interested in them. So when someone is with Sugarbabe, he feels much more like he is with his real girlfriend than when he is with FKK WG, Feeling like with real girlfriend should be the ultimate goal for the mongers who look for GFE, and that can be much better delivered by Sugarbabes.[/QUOTE]I reached the same conclusion as you. I think JNPR more or less suggested similar if I am not mistaken: that is, mongers who take out out their favorite FKK WGs for 12 hours 1000 EUR are essentially looking for a GFE experience, and that a sugar babe might be a better fit for this need. And likely more cost-effective.

Maybe I'm the only one who doesn't give a shit about the other customers of the girls I go with? If they give good service to any kind of men, it means that they're good providers. I don't pay the girl for the time out of the room, it's a fuck club by god's sake! As long as they're dedicated to me in the room, they can do what they want with who they want once it's over, they're working and they're here to make money, [blue][Deleted by Admin][/blue].

[QUOTE=KosherKowboy;2246052]I think this is where the SB discussion is relevant here not irrelevant. The diversification of the portfolio mentioned above is what I have always called ' irons in the fire'; and agree with. I think the PPS is spreading as well so all of us mongers need to spread our wings somehow and the SB scene is still a form of P4 P and might be a way to pivot for some. [/QUOTE]KK, I figured you would agree with the diversification analogy, since you are invested in Spain, RLD, mainstream FKK, and red carpet clubs. For me, the mainstream FKK clubs have long since lost their luster. I check into Sharks from time to time, but it is nowhere near my most frequented or preferred club.

I would still recommend Sharks and Oase to other mongers under certain conditions: the monger is (1) extremely optics oriented and (2) pressed for time. My rationale is that Sharks and Oase are two of the biggest LUs in Germany. So there is something for all optical tastes and less chance for a monger to be disappointed about the optics. Some mongers just do 1-3 day trips, so there is less margin for error. It might not make sense to waste a day to explore a smaller club or RLD, if all the WGs are optic six or below. Some of the smaller clubs will have one or two top optics, but if one or both are missing, their is greater impact to the overall optics of the LU. Someone who is doing a marathon trip like 1-3 weeks will probably at some point be sperm-deprived, and as such can afford to have a disappointing FKK day.

I think the sugar babe discussion is tough to generalize. Yes, it is not easy work. You can't walk into a club and fuck ten different women when you feel like it. There is a lot of prep work that needs to happen. A few people from European countries PMed me and asked how I would compare FKKs and sugar babes. If I lived in FRA around the year, I might never have bothered about sugar babes. But not every city has 4 or 5 world class fuck clubs.

But in the past, people were too quick to generalize US as a sex prison. So, my comments were somewhat in that context. I too would have characterized US situation as a prison, and indeed I have on many occasions here. But underneath the surface, there may be a lot of activity. Monger88 and others have talked a lot about it. And with my experiences at sugar babe situation, I now think the US situation is different but not dire. That is a change from my prior view and something that happened after my personal experiences.

We are in a sharing economy now. Uber, Airbnb,. I kinda think of sugar babe situation along similar lines. The sites provides a venue for men and women to meet and exchange info. BTW, I disagree with the characterization it is like a dating site similar to Tinder. Try messaging a girl in the first communication itself "will you fuck for money" on Tinder. She will probably call you names, block you, and probably have your account deleted by the admin. On sugar babe site, with so many girls I have asked in my very first ever line of communication "is FwB in your menu". Almost all the girls are not shocked and most are not offended. They might not care for it, but they will not scream and they will not contact admin to delete your account and if they do, the admin is more likely to kick them out because FwB is quite oK officially on the site..With sugar babe sites, sex for pay is implicitly understood and often quite explicitly. On dating sites it might eventually lead to sex, but that is not the same as a sugar Babe sites. You could meet a girl in the supermarket which could eventually lead to sex but neither is that encounter akin to sugar babe situation.

And the prices. People are widely speculating here. If you have personal experience, you should post and we can compare notes. And that was one of my original intents: to invite people who had real, first hand data and how their experiences have been so that I can learn something new. I don't have a venue to discuss these issues on the sugar babe site itself and have no way of contacting other sugar daddies. But I posted my experiences and prices in huge detail. Yes, there is a $80 site fee per month, but you attend a club for a day and you pay 65 Euro which is more than $70. And BTW, you could subscribe on sugarbabe site for a month, collect a handful of sugar babes and if you are happy with them, then disconnect your subscription and keep your deals with existing sugar babes. If at some point, you tire of them then get back on the site and rinse and repeat.

I began paying $300 at first, but lately as I got more savvy and experienced, I have been bargaining harder. One example. Yesterday, I met my Honors college sugar babe for the second session. We met at 12:30 Pm and had a nice leisurely lunch. Then we drove together to a hotel nearly 20 min away. We sat in the bed, cuddled and made out and chatted for nearly 40 minutes. And the we got down for sex. She is so fresh, 20 years old (21 in 2 months) and she is studying business and she can genuinely talk about it and not the fake "I am in university" FKK crap. One side benefit. I have never done DATY in FKK because it always seeems yucky to me, as I imagine whatever went on there. With this girl yesterday, she was so clean I spent nearly 30 min just on that activity. Ok, her BJ sucks because well, she doesn't know how to suck well. But that's the charm of sugar babes. They are amateur. She said I was only her 5th dude in life. We got finished and left around 5:15 PM. We took a shower together at the start and ended with a quicker scrub to wash off the sex and she put her make up back on, and walked out together to our cars. You do the math. I gave her just $220 and I paid $50 for the hotel. Try spending that much time in a session in FKK and how much you need to spend, and then if you are an American add the airfare and hotels and transportation and add the vacation days. BTW, my girl yesterday was easily one of the prettier girls I have ever had sex with, and would quite compare quite favorably with Tatiana and a few of my Sharks favs of the past.

As I also said in the prior report, prices vary. One time I was in San Fran, and messaged this girl and she demanded $150 just to meet for dinner and some outrageous amount for sex, easily north of $600. But then again, she is in San Fran, the geek capital of the world, and so many internet and software nerds have net worth in the dozens of millions. Hot girls are few and moneyed nerds are common there. Try doing som supply demand analysis.

But even more than variation between cities, ethnicities, and other factors, there are variations between individuals. Price discovery is different. A nice cute girl may give it way for 200, another might want 600, a fat girl might think she is worth 500, and a guy with a fetish might want to give a no looker a huge amount. Part of the fun is doing this price discovery with each girl. Personally speaking, I actually enjoy this shopping. And also, some guys give money for just hanging out. One girl said some guys pay just to be seen with the girl in the public and for eating out etc. There is no standard here, it is upto each pair to do their own negotiation.

So, when people PMed me which site I use etc, I advised them to just take a free membership and check out how many girls are listed in your local area and then perhaps try it. You won't know how much it costs unless you message each girl, and you can't messgae unless you have a paid subscription.

Finally, one thing that's been a problem for me as I get older is that I am able to finish less and less. And if I fly to DE, I am perforce compelled to take numerous sessions in a few days to justify the fixed cost of flight etc. But the enjoyment from actual sessions seems to diminish as the number of sessions become larger. In a sugar babe situation, I can pace and do as and when I like.

That is not to say FKK is no longer enjoyable. Far from it. The dozens of naked ladies, seeing them flirt with me and day long sex on your mind and thought, possibility of public sex, possibility of sex with multiple girls on a day, possibility of sex with 2 or more girls in one session, possibility of anal and other depraved activities for those so inclined. These are not on the table with sugar babe. If she says sucking balls is yucky, you just have to smile and say "ok babe. ".

The most difficult part of sugar babe is that in addition to the hard work, there are plenty of super lookers who will just fla out refuse you. In FKKs, there might be a girl or two who will refuse, but you can fuck 99% of them if you simply snap your finger. On sugar daddy site, if you lust after a girl, and she refuses there is nothing you can do. And if someone is obese and let go off his looks a while ago, even a lot of money might not do the trick. My girl yesterday has refused at least 3 well off dudes. She does have another dude in addition to me, I think but she is being coy in telling me the story. If you relax on the age limit, looks, body type, etc your success might be a lot better. But I havent. I am happy to stay with a handful of pretty girls and keep adding them over time.

So, anyway, this is meant for a discussion and obviously we all have opinions and views but unless you have spent some time actually working through the interactions, dynamics, meet a few girls and eventually have sex and then compare your own personal notes how that experience was relative to professional mongering in FKK, I would not rush to pronounce some hasty judgement that one is superior and one is inferior.

Just an addendum. It is quite true that SB / SD is more likely to appeal to folks wanting and seeking GFE sex. Some guys don't need it. If I remember, XXL said one time that he likes hard sporty (to borrow Siri's phraseology) sex and does n't even need DFK etc. Perhaps I am not remembering accurately, but there are folks who like such stuff. If you want to do 3 or 4 rooms for 30 min each, perhaps include some BJ but a lot of hard banging and then finish in CIM or in a condom, then SB is unlikely to appeal. Yes, you can find one specific SB who is into that but you will not have 4 of them on the same day within a single house.

I think in my June visit to DE, I spent 5 days in clubs. I think I had roughly 21 or 22 rooms, and something like 16 or 18 different girls as there were few repeats. I can search very hard and plan diligently and spend a lot of time, effort and money and still might not have sex with 16 different SBs in 6 months, or even one year. I might not even want it. The nature of the arrangement is quite different. You do build some connection through the process of introduction, getting to know each other, exchange of ideas / desires / terms, and before you even have your first ever sex you will know a lot more about your girl than you did with a FKK girl that you might have banged half a dozen times already. Not always, as there are some pro am girls on the SB site, but in general that is true. I have never even run into the issue of SB meet for just an hour. Every single one of them have a mix of some socialization like lunches / drinks etc and then going to a room and then slow and sensual sex. Unless I am meeting the girl in her own house, which has happened occasionally in which case we might have a drink and then sex. But meeting a girl in her own house and having sex on her own bed has its own charm. The Colombian single mom that has been my regular now has a cute little dog, who was so anxious the first time I meet her in her house, he kept trying to jump into the bed. Eventually, she kicked him out of the room and locked the door but he was barking hysterically, so much so that she had go out and spank him to keep quiet. He whimpered a bit and fell silent, it was hilarious. Some guys might like this kinda atmosphere, some might just want to bang the girl, shower and find the next girl for 30 M /50 E. Each to his own, as KK said.