American Politics

[QUOTE=Tiny12;2820942]I actually donated to Hillary's campaign in 2016. I wish she'd won. Republicans would have done much better in the 2020 election if Hillary had been president. People vote based on the state of the economy, and the economy was going to suck regardless of who was president during the COVID pandemic. Also the Republican Party cannot do well in elections as long as Trump is its figurehead.

With more Republicans in Congress, there would have been no American Rescue Plan, which kickstarted inflation. And which when combined with other legislation, all passed by a Democrat President and Congress, will result in 5 trillion in additional unfunded spending. It's the bankrupting of America.

Hillary might just have turned out like Bill Clinton in his second term, that is, willing to work with Republicans for the good of all Americans, instead of being willing to work with far left progressives like Elizabeth Warren for the benefit of no one except special interests, like renewable energy companies, chip manufacturers and contractors. That's what Biden's doing. Remember that the last time we balanced the budget was under Bill Clinton and a Republican House.[/QUOTE]The proper characterization is "Trump's Pandemic".

No way in hell would a President Hillary Clinton have been so stupid, foolish, beholden to and worried about making China's Xi the least bit uncomfortable during a losing "trade negotiation" that she would have defunded and removed the Pandemic Prevention and Response agents from China whose very job it was to monitor such potential developments in a known "bad actor" country, to alert the world of emerging coronavirus cases and more 5 months before those first cases emerged when only a 2-3 month heads up would have been plenty of time to avert and avoid all of the problems that caused, the worldwide economic collapse, the millions of deaths, the millions upon millions of job losses, the school and business closures, the need for an American Rescue Plan to recover us and the rest of the planet from still another Great Repub Depression / Recession in the first place, any and all resulting inflation, Fed Funds Rate increases, all of it.

And certainly not against all expert dire warnings not to do something so dangerous and stupid no matter how flattering it was to the ego of his losing "trade negotiation" victor Xi, as Trump did.

And then to lie about it, mock and denigrate the known mitigating measures, including any need for anyone to bother inventing a vaccine for what he'd wrought throughout all of critical Trump's Pandemic development year 2020? LOL. Seriously, nether Hillary Clinton nor any other Dem would have done that.

But Trump did it. And all evidence supports the idea that virtually any and all Repubs would have done exactly what Trump did. Happily so. Word is defunding vaccine study and development for future coronavirus challenges is in the Repub demands to stop them from defaulting on their debts and close down the USA government again! Just as Nude Grinbitch and his Repubs did twice under Clinton in order to try but failed to crash the historic economic expansion, jobs creation and producing a budget surplus that Clinton and his Dem Congress set in legislative motion without a single Repub vote for it in 1993.

LOL. That is just silly fantasizing of a move and outcome under a Hillary Clinton presidency that a clear majority of 2016 voters knew quite well would never have happened under her stewardship.

Thought some of you might like this.
[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-JovAbHqDc[/URL]

There is an interesting proposal here for affirmative action, but based on family income / parenthood etc, not on race.

When you can do something? This is why I advocate for lowering centres of power to the local level.

[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQN17Niu9TM[/URL]

[QUOTE=CaliGuy;2820977]Haven't been on this thread for months as common sense tells you that you can't argue with stupidity. It doesn't take much research to see how Biden has destroyed the USA. It doesn't take research to see how Biden has destroyed the economy and driven inflation to 40 year highs. It doesn't take research to see how knumbskulls still support open and dangerous borders, crime ridden cities, woke politics. Large corporations like Target and Budweiser have learned the hard way how wokeness can piss off loyal hard working customers. Stupid liberal democrats still support the destruction of America and still votes for socialists communist ways in their cities making them the most dangerous places to live. Nordstrom closing their stores in downtown SF because unsafe for employees to go to work. Watch all the stupid people get conned again in our state by offering reparations to blacks. These communist leaders know they won't ever pay that but they will dangle it out to the stupid that will believe and vote them in again. 88% of the people in the USA think the USA is headed in the wrong direction. Poverty at an all time high. Homelessness at an all time high, Crime at an all time high. Inflation at an all time high. Drugs entering our country at an all time high. Illegals invading the USA at an all time high. You need intelligence to see this not closing your eyes and pretending it isn't happening. You would have to be a fool to disagree but like I said previously there are some communist brainwashed fools here that will dispute the truth.[/QUOTE]. For managing to squeeze one "socialist" and three "communists" in a short yet gloriously incoherent post. Good job!

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2821064]The proper characterization is "Trump's Pandemic".

No way in hell would a President Hillary Clinton have been so stupid, foolish, beholden to and worried about making China's Xi the least bit uncomfortable during a losing "trade negotiation" that she would have defunded and removed the Pandemic Prevention and Response agents from China whose very job it was to monitor such potential developments in a known "bad actor" country, to alert the world of emerging coronavirus cases and more 5 months before those first cases emerged when only a 2-3 month heads up would have been plenty of time to avert and avoid all of the problems that caused, the worldwide economic collapse, the millions of deaths, the millions upon millions of job losses, the school and business closures, the need for an American Rescue Plan to recover us and the rest of the planet from still another Great Repub Depression / Recession in the first place, any and all resulting inflation, Fed Funds Rate increases, all of it.

And certainly not against all expert dire warnings not to do something so dangerous and stupid no matter how flattering it was to the ego of his losing "trade negotiation" victor Xi, as Trump did.

And then to lie about it, mock and denigrate the known mitigating measures, including any need for anyone to bother inventing a vaccine for what he'd wrought throughout all of critical Trump's Pandemic development year 2020? LOL. Seriously, nether Hillary Clinton nor any other Dem would have done that.

But Trump did it. And all evidence supports the idea that virtually any and all Repubs would have done exactly what Trump did. Happily so. Word is defunding vaccine study and development for future coronavirus challenges is in the Repub demands to stop them from defaulting on their debts and close down the USA government again! Just as Nude Grinbitch and his Repubs did twice under Clinton in order to try but failed to crash the historic economic expansion, jobs creation and producing a budget surplus that Clinton and his Dem Congress set in legislative motion without a single Repub vote for it in 1993.

LOL. That is just silly fantasizing of a move and outcome under a Hillary Clinton presidency that a clear majority of 2016 voters knew quite well would never have happened under her stewardship.[/QUOTE]I started to read your post, "No way in hell would a President Hillary Clinton have been so stupid, foolish, beholden to and worried about making China's Xi the least bit uncomfortable during a losing "trade negotiation. " I thought for once Tooms and I are on the same page. He's going to criticize Trump's trade wars. His poorly thought out tariffs on China, and on steel and other imports from other countries. But no.

Your post makes no sense. China was dead set on hiding the pandemic from its own people, let alone the USA, the WHO, and the rest of the world. The budget for the CDC remained stable and the budget for the NIH increased during the Trump administration -- see the chart here. The numbers are adjusted for inflation.

[URL]https://www.cato.org/blog/coronavirus-nih/cdc-funding[/URL]

Most likely any cuts by the CDC in Beijing were determined internally, not by Trump political operatives.

Yes, as a result of a bad decision by neocon warmonger John Bolton, there were cuts at the NSC related to pandemic preparedness. But would they have made any difference given the Chinese government's secrecy? Very, very doubtful.

Another consideration is the infectiousness of COVID 19, the Ro value. It was much more infectious than MERS, SARS and even the flu. Even with much more foreknowledge, it would have been hard to prevent the pandemic.

Please point to links from unbiased sources that show a majority of Republicans are trying to defund vaccine studies.

I agree that Trump should not have mocked social distancing or masks. On the other hand, it's ridiculous to say he didn't support a vaccine. Not only is Operation Warp Speed lauded by Fauci, Redfield and many other public health experts, but Trump was more willing to push the vaccines through the FDA than most. Admittedly this was partly because he wanted the vaccines out before the 2020 election. But the end result was that many American lives, and lives of people around the world, were saved. A president Clinton or Biden might just have allowed the FDA to proceed at its normal snail's pace.

Yes the USA suffered more than most developed countries during the pandemic. The primary culprits were normal Americans, who weren't going to social distance, wear masks, or get vaccinated. Now more of those people may be Republicans, and you might not like it, put there's not much you or politicians can do about it, short of moving. It's a free country. And there were economic downsides to responding like, say, Thailand.

BTW, the USA arguably was better prepared for a pandemic at the end of the George W. Bush administration than it was at the end of Obama's. Bush was a Republican.

[QUOTE=JustTK;2821101]When you can do something? This is why I advocate for lowering centres of power to the local level.

[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQN17Niu9TM[/URL][/QUOTE]There are probably more good things than bad that Minnesota did, that are described in the video. I agree with you about delegating power to the local level, but don't see how the video advocates it. Those actions are being taken at the state level. To the extent though that they're being done in St. Paul (capitol of Minnesota) instead of Washington, D.C., I agree.

[QUOTE=CaliGuy;2820977]Haven't been on this thread for months as common sense tells you that you can't argue with stupidity. It doesn't take much research to see how Biden has destroyed the USA. It doesn't take research to see how Biden has destroyed the economy and driven inflation to 40 year highs. It doesn't take research to see how knumbskulls still support open and dangerous borders, crime ridden cities, woke politics. Large corporations like Target and Budweiser have learned the hard way how wokeness can piss off loyal hard working customers. Stupid liberal democrats still support the destruction of America and still votes for socialists communist ways in their cities making them the most dangerous places to live. Nordstrom closing their stores in downtown SF because unsafe for employees to go to work. Watch all the stupid people get conned again in our state by offering reparations to blacks. These communist leaders know they won't ever pay that but they will dangle it out to the stupid that will believe and vote them in again. 88% of the people in the USA think the USA is headed in the wrong direction. Poverty at an all time high. Homelessness at an all time high, Crime at an all time high. Inflation at an all time high. Drugs entering our country at an all time high. Illegals invading the USA at an all time high. You need intelligence to see this not closing your eyes and pretending it isn't happening. You would have to be a fool to disagree but like I said previously there are some communist brainwashed fools here that will dispute the truth.[/QUOTE]Tooms is smart. He's just so blinded by partisanship that he doesn't realize the Biden Big Government agenda over the long term would take us where France is now. We'd be about 30% poorer than we would be without it.

As to the rest, I’d be pissed off too if I lived in California instead of Texas. Or actually I would have moved by now.

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2821110]. For managing to squeeze one "socialist" and three "communists" in a short yet gloriously incoherent post. Good job![/QUOTE]Just sticking to the facts. Supporters of Biden socialistic and communist policies should be proud to be called socialists and communists. Why aren't you?

[QUOTE=CaliGuy;2821254]Just sticking to the facts. Supporters of Biden socialistic and communist policies should be proud to be called socialists and communists. Why aren't you?[/QUOTE]You have absolutely no idea about what socialism and communism really are. You're just repeating the drivel you read in your "hot sheets".

That makes you a parrot. Parrots, you know, may sound like they understand what they're blabbering, but they do not. It's all about air vibration and mimicking.

[QUOTE=Tiny12;2821206]I started to read your post, "No way in hell would a President Hillary Clinton have been so stupid, foolish, beholden to and worried about making China's Xi the least bit uncomfortable during a losing "trade negotiation. " I thought for once Tooms and I are on the same page. He's going to criticize Trump's trade wars. His poorly thought out tariffs on China, and on steel and other imports from other countries. But no.

Your post makes no sense. China was dead set on hiding the pandemic from its own people, let alone the USA, the WHO, and the rest of the world. The budget for the CDC remained stable and the budget for the NIH increased during the Trump administration -- see the chart here. The numbers are adjusted for inflation.

[URL]https://www.cato.org/blog/coronavirus-nih/cdc-funding[/URL]

Most likely any cuts by the CDC in Beijing were determined internally, not by Trump political operatives.

Yes, as a result of a bad decision by neocon warmonger John Bolton, there were cuts at the NSC related to pandemic preparedness. But would they have made any difference given the Chinese government's secrecy? Very, very doubtful.

Another consideration is the infectiousness of COVID 19, the Ro value. It was much more infectious than MERS, SARS and even the flu. Even with much more foreknowledge, it would have been hard to prevent the pandemic.

[b]Please point to links from unbiased sources that show a majority of Republicans are trying to defund vaccine studies.[/b]

I agree that Trump should not have mocked social distancing or masks. On the other hand, it's ridiculous to say he didn't support a vaccine. Not only is Operation Warp Speed lauded by Fauci, Redfield and many other public health experts, but Trump was more willing to push the vaccines through the FDA than most. Admittedly this was partly because he wanted the vaccines out before the 2020 election. But the end result was that many American lives, and lives of people around the world, were saved. A president Clinton or Biden might just have allowed the FDA to proceed at its normal snail's pace.

Yes the USA suffered more than most developed countries during the pandemic. The primary culprits were normal Americans, who weren't going to social distance, wear masks, or get vaccinated. Now more of those people may be Republicans, and you might not like it, put there's not much you or politicians can do about it, short of moving. It's a free country. And there were economic downsides to responding like, say, Thailand.

BTW, the USA arguably was better prepared for a pandemic at the end of the George W. Bush administration than it was at the end of Obama's. Bush was a Republican.[/QUOTE]Not just an unbiased source, but a demonstrably pro Repub source, The New York Times, as evidenced even here by their crediting the rapid vaccine approval programs developed under Obama to Trump! LOL. Yeah, Trump, the guy who spent most of critical Trump's Pandemic Development year 2020 telling the world his pandemic virus was disappearing, going away without a vaccine, was always only a Dem hoax anyway so there is certainly no reason for anyone to bother wasting the time, money and effort to invent a vaccine for it.

You know, the vaccine he was so ashamed to finally admit was needed after all that he and Melania got their life-saving shots in near total secrecy and he only dared to mention it to the lamebrain mob he tried so long and hard to successfully convince otherwise whenever he felt like getting roundly booed by them at his rallies. LOL.

[B]White House Pushes to Save Key Covid Programs in Debt Ceiling Talks.
The Biden administration has prioritized preserving a $5 billion vaccine development program in discussions with House Republicans on clawing back unspent Covid-19 funds.[/B]

[URL]https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/23/us/politics/biden-debt-ceiling-covid.html[/URL]

[QUOTE]Some White House officials view the vaccine development program, called Project NextGen, as the most important Covid measure to protect in the debt ceiling talks. It is loosely modeled on the Trump administrations vaccine development program, known as Operation Warp Speed, which marshaled a series of effective shots to Americans in record time.[/QUOTE]So you do take Trump to task for developing Trump's Pandemic by mocking the known mitigation measures but put your head in the sand over how he clearly laid the foundation for any significant potential pandemic emerging from China, who you appear to agree was known to be a "bad actor" on admitting leaks, flubs and infections in these matters, when he defunded and removed the very agents whose job it was monitor and report the earliest emergence of cases 5 months before those first cases emerged when only a 2-3 month heads up would have been plenty of time for responsible actors in the world to Flatten The Curve of infections and required hospitalizations so as to delay the broader spread until vaccines were invented, tested, up, running and available around the world. In other words, averting the worldwide catastrophic damage done by Trump's Pandemic.

Really, you don't need me to again, again and again here post the links to the reports connecting those two huge dots from Trump removing those agents in July 2019 to Trump explaining that a mere 2 month heads up would have averted the whole damn thing, do you?

I assure you if Obama, Biden or a hypothetical President Hillary Clinton had done such a thing in July 2019, five months before the first cases emerged in China, The New York Times would be repeating it and quoting every Repub on the planet also repeating it, daily, and ten times more all through every election cycle since July, 2019.

[QUOTE=Tiny12;2821252]Tooms is smart. He's just so blinded by partisanship that he doesn't realize the Biden Big Government agenda over the long term would take us where France is now. We'd be about 30% poorer than we would be without it.

As to the rest, Id be pissed off too if I lived in California instead of Texas. Or actually I would have moved by now.[/QUOTE]Tiny, Great Repub Depression / Recession and Great Repub Jobs Destruction-producing Repubs have been warning us about the grave dangers of Great Dem Recovery, Great Dem Economic Expansions and Historic Dem Jobs Creation due to the "Big Government" intervention always required to pull us out of those Repub disasters since at least late 1932.

At some point presumably when MAGAs judged America to have been "great."

Now, really, just how long is the "long term" when this horrible outcome is supposed to happen? Something at least a bit more horrible that is than the Great Repub Depression, Eisenhower's Triple Repub Recession / Atrocious Jobs Creation record, Reagan's Great Repub Recession, GWB's Great Repub Recession that left us unprepared to effectively deal with damn near any emergency and with the economy crashing down around our ears on all fronts in January, 2009 who needs a pandemic to do it, and Trump's Great Repub Massive Jobs Destruction By The Millions Upon Millions?

Thank god I had California rental property to see me through that last one without so much as a glitch in my fucking and getting sucked by adorable Thai sweeties in their 20's routine in my hard work and FDR, Carter, Clinton, Obama, Biden Stewardship-facilitated comfy and secure retirement.

We're talking in circles. However, I am compelled to respond to one of your points.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2821387]Not just an unbiased source, but a demonstrably pro Repub source, The New York Times[/QUOTE]Haha! You literally had me laughing out loud with that one. The New York Times has endorsed the Democratic candidate for the presidency in every election since 1960. That's 60 years.

[URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_presidential_election_endorsements_made_by_The_New_York_Times#text=Since%20 its%20 founding%20 in%201851,for%20 Joe%20 Biden%20 in%202020[/URL].

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2821387][B]White House Pushes to Save Key Covid Programs in Debt Ceiling Talks.
The Biden administration has prioritized preserving a $5 billion vaccine development program in discussions with House Republicans on clawing back unspent Covid-19 funds.[/B]

[URL]https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/23/us/politics/biden-debt-ceiling-covid.html[/URL][/QUOTE]I read that article several days ago. You may recall I subscribed to the NYT so I could read your links. There's no statement in the article that Republicans are specifically trying to cut the vaccine development program, only that Republicans are trying to claw back unspent funds from COVID-19 legislation. That's a good idea. The national debt is out of control, thanks in no small part to $5 trillion in unfunded spending legislated by Democrats when they controlled the Presidency, House and Senate in 2021 and 2022.

Linking the Republican's attempted claw back to the vaccine program is Biden Administration propaganda.

I believe the $5 billion or whatever for Project NextGen would be well spent by the way. Given our experience with COVID-19, SARS and MERS, not to mention the common cold, we need a universal coronavirus vaccine. We don't want another coronavirus pandemic killing millions of people. And then there's the effect on the economy and the national debt. Bipartisan and later Democratic Party COVID stimulus and pandemic relief is a large part of the reason federal debt held by the public rose from 17.3 trillion to 24.7 trillion in three short years.

[QUOTE=Tiny12;2821398]We're talking in circles. However, I am compelled to respond to one of your points.

Haha! You literally had me laughing out loud with that one. The New York Times has endorsed the Democratic candidate for the presidency in every election since 1960. That's 60 years.

[URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_presidential_election_endorsements_made_by_The_New_York_Times#text=Since%20 its%20 founding%20 in%201851,for%20 Joe%20 Biden%20 in%202020[/URL].

I read that article several days ago. You may recall I subscribed to the NYT so I could read your links. There's no statement in the article that Republicans are specifically trying to cut the vaccine development program, only that Republicans are trying to claw back unspent funds from COVID-19 legislation. That's a good idea. The national debt is out of control, thanks in no small part to $5 trillion in unfunded spending legislated by Democrats when they controlled the Presidency, House and Senate in 2021 and 2022..[/QUOTE]Endorsement Enhorsement. The NYT editors don't want to look like complete imbicles by endorsing a Repub. So what. Llke most MSM they spend the entire election cycle goofing "Democrats in Disarray"! "Trump and the Repubs Should Campaign On That Weird Perception We in MSM Promote That Repubs Are Better at Handling the Economy Than Dems"! "Hillary Can't Be Trusted"! "Biden failed to Accomplish Everything Libs Wanted"! "Repubs Just Know How To Speak 'American'" and all that crap.

No matter how you spin it and what Bizarro World math you use, cutting $5 Billion from funds earmarked for future coronavirus vaccine research and development, a drop in the ocean relative to the massive deficit spending Trump and his Repubs racked up with virtually zero to show for it, is Repub cowtowing to lunatic anti-vaxxers in their base. And if they get their way as Trump got his way when he pulled out the Pandemic Prevention and Response agents from China in 2019, no doubt sooner rather than later expect the same Million+ American Deaths, Economic Disaster, Closures, Millions Upon Millions of Jobs Wiped Out Followed by the Inevitable Inflation During the Recovery that Trump produced.

Otherwise known as Repub USA Economic and National Security Nirvana.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2821416]No matter how you spin it and what Bizarro World math you use, cutting $5 Billion from funds earmarked for future coronavirus vaccine research and development, a drop in the ocean relative to the massive deficit spending [b]Biden and his Dems racked up in 2021 and 2022[/b] with virtually zero to show for it[/QUOTE]With the slight change I made to your wording, highlighted in bold print, I agree 100%! Five billion dollars is only 1/10th of 1% of the $5 trillion in unfunded spending in bills passed by Democrats when they controlled the Presidency, House and Senate in 2021 and 2022. And the world needs a universal coronavirus vaccine.

Please note that Nancy Pelosi and the Democrats controlled the House of Representatives in 2020, and budget bills originate in the House. However I will not hang the responsibility for the 2020 deficit entirely on Nancy. We had a pandemic and the people needed help. Also Trump and Senate Republicans had their say in legislation as well. On the other hand, the $1.9 trillion American Rescue Plan (ARP) passed in 2021, when we'd already recovered from the 2020 recession, mainly served to ignite inflation in the USA before other countries. The $1.9 Trillion ARP contributed mightily to our $2.8 trillion (12.5% of GDP!) deficit in 2021. It was passed without a single Republican vote.

The rest of your post sounds a bit like a Rachel Maddow or Lawrence O'Donnell monologue.

[QUOTE=CaliGuy;2821254]Just sticking to the facts. Supporters of Biden socialistic and communist policies should be proud to be called socialists and communists. Why aren't you?[/QUOTE]So that everybody is on the same page, why don't you do the following:

1. Post [B]your[/B] definitions of both "socialism" and "communism".

2. Post all of the actual policies implemented by localities (counties, states, etc) in the USA that correspond to your definitions.

As a matter of comparison, here's the definition of both terms as found in the Oxford Leaner's Dictionary:

[B]Socialism[/B] - "a set of political and economic theories based on the belief that everyone has an equal right to a share of a country's wealth and that the government should own and control the main industries".

Another definition of both terms found in Merriam Webster:

[B]Socialism[/B] - (1) any of various egalitarian economic and political theories or movements advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods; (2) a: a system of society or group living in which there is no private property; be: a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state.

[B]Communism[/B] - a: a system in which goods are owned in common and are available to all as needed; be: a theory advocating elimination of private property.