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[QUOTE=SnrMan;2212288]Girl will need to show passport at front desk and fill out a form (or have passport copied. Don't remember). But not a problem. Midnight not a problem either.[/QUOTE]Thank you much for your reply!
How about payment for Judy & M girls, usually before they leave (after actions) or right after getting into the hotel room before the actions (payment first)?
Thank you again.
[QUOTE=AllForBb;2212458]Thank you much for your reply!
How about payment for Judy & M girls, usually before they leave (after actions) or right after getting into the hotel room before the actions (payment first)?
Thank you again.[/QUOTE]Here you are repeatedly asking these questions. Some, which have been answered already. Please stop with the questions. Here are some answers to your questions so hopefully you can move on.
Since you love going BB but won't do the deed unless you see a STD report, forget Judy's or Manhattans.
Since you're even asking about prices of beer, forget Judy's or Manhattan.
Since you seem fixated on asking about paying beforehand or after, since each girl is different, forget J and M.
My advice, stick to girls you get from the mamasans.
Thanks to those who answered my earlier questions. As promised, here's my trip report.
Although I was in China for a week, most nights I was going to be out in the sticks for work and knew I wouldn't have any opportunities those days. I was only going to be in Shanghai on Tuesday and Saturday nights. Tuesday I was still with work colleagues, so my only real opportunity was going to be Saturday. I'd already decided I wouldn't be trying Spas / MPs or KTVs. I felt J and M were the safest / best options, with an outside chance of a hotel bar providing some opportunity.
As luck would have it, I freed up around 10 pm on Tuesday evening. I was staying in a hotel over by the Bund and thought I'd try the hotel bar. I was the only one there. I had a couple of beers and I was still the only one there. Even though I'd just flown in from western Europe earlier that day I was feeling no jetlag. So I decided it'd be a good idea to head over to J and M and do some recon ahead of my Saturday night excursion. In the end, I was glad I did.
My hotel on the Bund was 15 minute drive from J and M. It is here I ran into my first challenge. Given what people had said about taxi drivers fleecing anyone going to or from J and M, I decided to have the taxi driver take me to the Portman Rizt Carlton. That didn't seem to help though. The first two cabs that stopped said they wanted 100 RMB. I declined both. The third also insisted on 100 RMB. I knew this was too much, but I figured it was just $15, and at that point I just wanted to get over to J and M. So I agreed to the 100 RMB. The guy actually ran his meter and it was at 25 RMB when we got to the Portman. I paid the quadruple fare and started walking towards J and M. Well, at least I thought I was heading in the right direction. I'd read deep into this forum and thought I had the correct addresses. But I didn't. I won't bore you with the details, but FYI, M is on Nanyang Rd and J is on Tongren Rd right at the junction of Nanyang and Tongren.
I walked around for 20 minutes before I found M. And it was hot and humid. There was a couple of very nice looking African ladies standing out on the street a few yards down from the entrance to M, but given what I've read on this forum, and past experiences in Germany, I decided I'd be steering well clear of them, which is a pity, because they were both really hot. Anyway, I was in Asia and I wanted to hang with Asian ladies.
I've had A LOT of bar experience in my lifetime, but nothing could have prepared me for M. It was 11:15 pm on a Tuesday evening and it was very busy, with a ratio of 70:30 in my favour. It should have been a fantastic experience, but for a few reasons it wasn't. Firstly, there was nowhere to sit and no room to stand at the bar. Couple that with ladies constantly coming up to me, I just wasn't able to get comfortable. Knowing me, I just could not have talked to a girl and then decided to move on, it's just not in my nature. I'd have felt obliged if I'd spent even a minute with her. I really wanted to find a spot to stand and observe before making my own move, but that wasn't going to be possible in M. I managed to get over to the bar and order a drink, and got fleeced again. The barman took my 100 RMB for a (shit) Corona and disappeared, obviously determined not to give me any change. I could have kicked up a stink and insisted on it, but it just seemed like too much hassle. There was a guy at the bar who was observing my every move, and I think he did a good job suppressing his smirk as he enjoyed this rank amateur flail about the place.
80% of the girls were a 6 or less, though most of them I'd have had no problem shagging. But none were standing out for me. I don't get this kind of opportunity very often and I really wanted to make the most of it. There were a few 7's and maybe one 8. I ended up chugging my beer and getting out of there. I walked past the two African ladies who playfully attempted to get my attention and I went into The Blind Pig to lick my wounds. I drank a beer at the bar and decided I'd finish up my recon and check out J before heading back to my hotel. By the time I'd finished my beer at the Blind Pig however, I was four beers deep and decided if I found someone I liked at J then all bets were off, this recon mission would turn into some real action.
J was a whole different experience. Much roomier and less crowded. I walked the length of the bar and the girls smiled and seemed much prettier and far less aggressive. There was one in particular who really caught my eye but I just kept walking until I found a seat at the end of the bar. I ordered a drink (barman charged me 45 RMB and gave me change) and managed to get a few sips in and scope out the place before anyone approached me. And the one who approached me was the one who caught my eye when I walked down the bar initially. At this point I'd managed to scope out the entire place and she was definitely the one I was most interested in. I bought her a beer and we chatted for a while and I really liked her. She was a late 20's Vietnamese girl with a beautiful face and a drop-dead gorgeous slim body. A solid 8 in anyone's book, and something about her really clicked with me.
She knew I was a J rookie and she helped me through the whole process, playfully giggling at my mistakes. We left the bar and took a cab back to my hotel. At this point I knew it was going to be 100 RMB cab ride and just agreed to the first cab driver who came along and insisted on that price.
I was definitely apprehensive about the hotel. When I'd left there were multiple porters and guests in the lobby, and although we wouldn't need to walk past reception, we definitely could be seen from reception. As luck would have it, there were no porters around when I got back (around 12:15 am) and I never even glanced over at reception, just headed for the elevators. We weren't challenged by anyone and headed up to the room. One thing I really appreciated about her though, and probably most girls do this, after leaving J she threw on a light coverall / jacket over her very revealing dress, and changed into a pair of flat shoes. So she was way less conspicuous that she might have been when we entered the hotel.
I won't go into details here, but I had a fantastic time and she was just a fun, comfortable person to be around. We connectedd on WeChat and I told her I'd be back in Shanghai on Saturday evening and would like to see her again.
As I was traveling back to Shanghai on Saturday I was thinking I'd really like to see her again, but I was also thinking I'd like to experience the hunt in J again now that I had some experience. I decided that if she contacted me I'd arrange to see her, otherwise I'd just go down to J and check the place out again. As luck would have it, she messaged me around noon on Saturday and we arranged to meet in the lobby of my hotel that evening.
I was waiting for her out the front of my hotel (Paramount Gallery) at 9:30 pm when she cycled up on a bcycle, looking fantastic in blue jeans and a tight-fitting top. OMG, she was absolutely beautiful. We went out and had some food and drinks and a great chat. Then back to my hotel room for one of the most memorable nights of my life.
A few points to note.
I felt myself falling head over heels like I hadn't done since I was a teenager. I did however catch myself and decided I needed to nip it in the bud. I decided not to allow myself down that path. I took SamCan's advice and decided that such relationships cannot be pursued. Yes, it's highly unlikely that she looked at me as anything other than an ATM machine. But I'll just remember it as a beautiful time with a truly beautiful and fun lady. And yeah, if for nothing else, I think she was happy to spend the time with me that evening rather than run the gauntlet down at J's, not knowing what the night would hold in store for her.
As far as the hotel goes, Paramount Gallery has a reception on the 12th floor of a 21 story building. When you return at night you just take the elevator from the 1st floor to whatever floor you are staying on. So you don't need to go past reception. You do need to go by security on the 1st floor, but I think it's very unlikely these guys would challenge you. I've seen some people mention that they split up entering the hotel. For both of my hotels I decided to just enter with the girl as that felt more comfortable to me. I remember someone else mentioning that it'd be unlikely that they'd challenge a paying guest with a Vietnamese woman who could easily be his wife. That seemed to make more sense to me.
One other point to note. Although The Blind Pig is a good warm-up place, as others have mentioned, another interesting place to hit in that neighborhood is a bar / restaurant at the junction of Yuyuan Rd and Tongren Rd, just down from J's. I think it is called 'The Spot. ' It's a hopping place and seems to be a hangout for a lot of the Vietnamese girls either before they head over to J's or if they decide to take a break from J's during the night. I think you could easily score here, a much more relaxed environment, if you wanted to avoid the mayhem of J and M.
I'd like to say a special thanks to SamCan, who's advice on this forum I believe allowed me to really maximize my enjoyment. Outside of taxi costs I've deliberately not mentioned any other costs, for my own personal reasons. But I've nothing to add in that regard that SamCan hasn't already mentioned. His advice there is spot on.
I thoroughly recommend the Paramount Gallery. It's a really nice hotel for about 700 RMB / night. Way better than the hotel over at the Bund for the same price. My friend also mentioned that Swissotel was one of her favourite hotels in that neighborhood.
[QUOTE=Daldm;2211319]Hello,
I'm new to this forum, but it's a lot that I'm lurking here, and it was very useful in organizing my trips.
So basically the weather will be very windy until mid November, for the international expo that will take place from 5th to 10th of November. In the Chinese forum (I'm an oversea born Chinese that can speak and read Chinese), they say that some saunas are already closing up before the real crackdown, for 3 months, and the one that are still open don't have a lot of business because the people are afraid of going, for now until the end of the expo it's better to avoid saunas, MP and barbershops, the safest options should be the pick up bars (never went to one in shanghai before but looking at the forum reports, they should be fine), but seems that the girls available aren't that many, or ktvs, but they tend to be a bit pricey, around 4 k, if you go with the qq groups (they are qq chat groups that arrange KTV parties), and that includes the KTV room, drinks and the girl that will stay with you overnight, you can just take the girl too without participating to the KTV party but you need to be a regular or have someone to guarantee for you.
Better to change to nearby cities like Suzhou or Nanjing (I know, not very near, but it's only a little more than 1 hour with the high speed train).[/QUOTE]Thanks for the info. Do you know if there is any speculation on wether things will get back to normal once the expo is over?
I have enjoyed my visits to MPs in the past and I am extremely sad to see that the places I have visited last year are all closed now.
Although I am a bourbon man, I enjoyed your report whiskey.
Not bad for a noob, haha.
Well Done!
Sam Can.
Hi all,
Hope you are all well.
Will be in Shanghai 10th Sept for a few days doing the furniture fair.
Usually I'm at M and J getting drunk and waking up to a beauty or a dog depending on how good or bad the beer Goggles serve me. LOL.
This time around I will be traveling with my business partner who is a goodie two shoes and I can't explain to him my hobbie. This is a shame. So I don't think I will able to sneak away.
I will have to order room service. I may hook up with a Nightlife lady, however if any of you have a great contact and are happy to share then please PM me, it would be much appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
Red.
Nice report Daldm.
Can you give some advice about how to find these QQ groups that organize KTV parties? Better yet, are there wechat groups?
If anyone reading this lives in Shanghai and would like to go to KTV in Shanghai or Suzhou, send me a PM, and we can organize something together. If you are just passing thru Shanghai, don't bother. To hard to find a common date.
PB.
[QUOTE=Daldm;2211319]Hello,
I'm new to this forum, but it's a lot that I'm lurking here, and it was very useful in organizing my trips.
So basically the weather will be very windy until mid November, for the international expo that will take place from 5th to 10th of November. In the Chinese forum (I'm an oversea born Chinese that can speak and read Chinese), they say that some saunas are already closing up before the real crackdown, for 3 months, and the one that are still open don't have a lot of business because the people are afraid of going, for now until the end of the expo it's better to avoid saunas, MP and barbershops, the safest options should be the pick up bars (never went to one in shanghai before but looking at the forum reports, they should be fine), but seems that the girls available aren't that many, or ktvs, but they tend to be a bit pricey, around 4 k, if you go with the qq groups (they are qq chat groups that arrange KTV parties), and that includes the KTV room, drinks and the girl that will stay with you overnight, you can just take the girl too without participating to the KTV party but you need to be a regular or have someone to guarantee for you.
Better to change to nearby cities like Suzhou or Nanjing (I know, not very near, but it's only a little more than 1 hour with the high speed train).[/QUOTE]
Thank you Whiskey for that great report. It's those long detailed reads that make ISG sing. And really good insights as well. I suppose it's true that M and J both have the same goal but a different vibe. You know I never noticed till now that I've never sat down in Manhattan! It is definitely packed and you are for sure the "most interesting man in the world" for a moment. But I could see how a Judy's could appeal in a very different way. Great news is we have both!
[QUOTE=Playboy2000;2213008]Nice report Daldm.
Can you give some advice about how to find these QQ groups that organize KTV parties? Better yet, are there wechat groups?
If anyone reading this lives in Shanghai and would like to go to KTV in Shanghai or Suzhou, send me a PM, and we can organize something together. If you are just passing thru Shanghai, don't bother. To hard to find a common date.
PB.[/QUOTE]You can find them using the qq group search function, but a lot of group don't accept new members with a very new qq account for various reasons, like: full, scammers, guys who want to enter to just send advertising, LE, etc.
But you need at least some Chinese skill to communicate with the organizer.
Great report Whiskey.
I always manage to get a seat in M. I usually find a Bar Steward, hand him a 100 note and ask him to find me a table. He will usually move girls occupying a table and let me have it.
Have fun guys.
Red.
[QUOTE=RedHawk;2213138]
I always manage to get a seat in M. I usually find a Bar Steward, hand him a 100 note and ask him to find me a table. He will usually move girls occupying a table and let me have it.
Have fun guys.
Red.[/QUOTE]Oh! I like that! Thanks for the Tip.
Hey whiskey, you want to improve your trip report. Give a name to the girl (don't worry you aren't going to be able to keep her for yourself anyway) and give the price you paid. Or at least a range. I 'am real curious if you got the 1000 rmb 2 pop rule or something else. You said sam was right.
Many guys doubt me when I give this target. Many give me a lot of crap about it. If my numbers work for you, please weigh in. If you overpaid that is ok too. Frankly, I have not been there since early this year. With all the Saunas closing supply is less. I will be curious what I have to pay this time.
As my time is short this trip, I am actually more interested in different pops with different women than what I have to pay.
My first night last time, I had lilly 1000 for 2 pops, walked her back to manhattans from the portman after and bought her a drink. I left her and ran into the girl that took 800 for a great bang. (a few posts down you will see a copy of the original post).
I remember the bouncer laughing at me when he saw me heading out for a second round. He pointed and said "laowai, (foreigner). He was telling his buddy, there I go again.
For what it's worth, here's my take on cost.
I think what you pay depends on a number of different factors (and others have pointed most of this out before). Supply and demand is definitely a factor. And the night I was there (a Tuesday) there was a lot more supply than demand. But both places were very busy, so it wasn't like it was dead. Having said that, given the ratio of girls to guys (70:30), I've no doubt a lot of ladies went home without making a penny that night. Still, I'm sure they have their lower limits for what they'll go for (I. E. Most would prob prefer to go home alone and make nothing than taking just a few hundred rmb). But definitely it was a buyers market that particular night.
I'm also sure (again, as others have mentioned) that the overall make-up (looks and personality) of the potential client plays a role. If you're Brad Pitt they're going back with you for zero. If you're a maniacal looking serial-killer type, they're going to want a big payday to take that chance. Then there's everything in between. For most of us this probably isn't a huge factor, but I think it could easily make a few hundred rmb difference one way or the other (I. E. The slim, fit, good-looking guy with the easy-going personality is easily going to get a lower price than the overweight, sweaty guy with no personality). I know not everyone wants to hear that, but I think it's just the way it is.
Okay, on to my particular case. I'm no Brad Pitt, but I'm in decent shape and I think I have an easy-going personality and I can make a girl laugh and feel comfortable. I don't think this played much of a factor for my first night, but I think it was a big factor in the repeat on the Saturday night. I'll explain more later.
My goal was the SamCan 1 k 2 pop. The negotiation went really quickly. She started at 1500 and I started at 800. We quickly decided on 1000 for 2 pops. It was a very easy and amicable negotiation. But then I did something that will probably frustrate some of you, but for me I think it was a very inexpensive way to get a service level and overall experience that I wouldn't otherwise have received. A few minutes after we agreed the price, as we were leaving, I told her that I think she needs to improve her negotiating skills, that I would have paid 1200 easily because she is beautiful. Then we had a fun exchange and I told her I was going to pay her the 1200 anyway. Okay, I understand this sounds very corny, but it got a great laugh out of her and I believe it really helped strengthen whatever connection we had and played a big factor in me having two fantastic sessions with her. Yeah, you can say 'of course they're going to be / seem happier if you give them more,' but for me it was worth it. And yeah, you could argue that I could have just tipped afterwards if the service was good. My approach was different, some would say stupid. But I think it worked really well.
And, for the record, the service was off the charts that first night. It was very GFE. And I think my late maneuver paid huge dividends.
If you read my earlier post you'll know I also hooked up with the same girl on Saturday evening. The service was again off the charts. In fact that Saturday night was easily my best experience ever playing this game, and I've been doing it for a while. The interesting thing here is we never negotiated any price for Saturday evening. Money was never mentioned at all. Even when we were parting I just gave her what I thought was fair and she just put it in her purse without counting it. I gave her more that night because it was Saturday and I know that's their biggest night and I didn't want her to feel like she'd been stiffed. I think I could easily have given her 1200 again and she'd have been fine with it. The reason I say that is I'm sure for most of these girls they'd take a little less in exchange for knowing they're going to have a safe evening with someone they know and trust.
So I can definitely confirm SamCan's assertion that 1 k 2 pops are available, at least on a Tuesday night. I got the best looking girl in J to agree to to that price that night. I've no doubt there were a lot of girls in there that night who'd easily have gone for 800 or less. Obviously I can't say what the price might have been on a Saturday night, maybe it'd be hard to get an 8 for that price on a busy weekend, but I've no doubt you could get a very decent 6 or 7 for that price on a Saturday. And maybe you could get an 8 for that price if you've got decent game.
Overall I paid more than I needed to, but certainly not extravagantly so. I paid maybe 20% more than I might have. But I think I paid a very fair price for the experience I got. And I feel like the person I shared that time with also felt good about what she got, and that's important to me.
[QUOTE=SamCan;2213239]Oh! I like that! Thanks for the Tip.
Hey whiskey, you want to improve your trip report. Give a name to the girl (don't worry you aren't going to be able to keep her for yourself anyway) and give the price you paid. Or at least a range. I 'am real curious if you got the 1000 rmb 2 pop rule or something else. You said sam was right.
Many guys doubt me when I give this target. Many give me a lot of crap about it. If my numbers work for you, please weigh in. If you overpaid that is ok too. Frankly, I have not been there since early this year. With all the Saunas closing supply is less. I will be curious what I have to pay this time.
As my time is short this trip, I am actually more interested in different pops with different women than what I have to pay.
My first night last time, I had lilly 1000 for 2 pops, walked her back to manhattans from the portman after and bought her a drink. I left her and ran into the girl that took 800 for a great bang. (a few posts down you will see a copy of the original post).
I remember the bouncer laughing at me when he saw me heading out for a second round. He pointed and said "laowai, (foreigner). He was telling his buddy, there I go again.[/QUOTE]Samcan- I've generally been in your price range, with qualifier that I'm too old for 2 pops and the women skew aplder. Generally 1000. I'll go 1200 if I'm very impressed, but rare. Currently hearing complaints of not many customers from girls; was in J last Fri night at 3:30 (admittedly very late) and I was practically only guy left standing. So you should be able to do OK at your price target.
[QUOTE=Daldm;2213053]You can find them using the qq group search function, but a lot of group don't accept new members with a very new qq account for various reasons, like: full, scammers, guys who want to enter to just send advertising, LE, etc.
But you need at least some Chinese skill to communicate with the organizer.[/QUOTE]I speak and write Chinese. Can you give me search strings. I'll give it a try. Thanks.
First, big thanks to Sam Can and Whiskey for sharing insights. I've visited Manhattan's several times (and reported here) and I've found it to be too loud, small to be able to find even a spot of floor to stand on, although with only one exception the selection has always been great.
So, I tried Judy's for a change and am glad I did. Followed the advise to take a Taxi (using DiDi app) to The Portman Ritz-Carlton and walked around the block. Three minutes tops to M, four to J's. Judy's is roomier with more seating options. Alas, none for me though while entering at 10:00. The place was packed. Favorable ratio of 70:30. Lots of 5-6 options available with some solid 8's mixed in, but all engaged with their marks. Was aggressively pursued by a 45-ish lady who's seen better days. With so many other younger and prettier creatures around, hard to be polite but I managed to get my 45 RMB Tiger draft beer, say cheers and walk on.
Again, really good selection. While I was looking around, one 20-ish Viet cutie came to me and chatted me up. Not my first choice on looks alone but good English, bubbly personality, great smile and the more we talked, and the more I checked out her tight little bod, the closer I got to making a deal.
She asked for 2 k for ST. (I guess I'm the fat guy with no personality. LOL) I countered with 1 k and we eventually settled for 1.5 k for 2 hrs /2 pops. (I suck at negotiating, especially with a pretty face and plumped up pert titties smiling up at me.).
So, another DiDi and 20 minutes later back to my hotel in Minhang. Session was great, started with shower together then went straight to it, totally unrushed and 7. 5/10 service. GFE, BBBJ, DATY and covered FS. Nice intermission with pleasant conversation and playful touching. Round 2 was more energetic. She's a trooper. Great sound effects, too. I bet my next-door neighbors thought so, too.
Anyway, she'll be in town till mid-September. PM me if you want her WeChat for a delivery service. (I got her permission to share with my friends) Nice and lovely girl, please be kind to her.