German FKK Clubs - Lounge and chat area

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2263117] ... the girls charge what they can, which is different for every customer depending on how broad their taste, how often they get out of Pussy Prison and ...[/QUOTE]Agree. One point rarely made is that some guys (a small number not including me unfortunately) manage to negotiate prices which are under the standard (yet alone inflated) prices. If some guys can do this I baulk at paying over standard prices.

More to the point for me is that in my experience the girls giving the best service are those who don't upsell, ask for tips, restrict time and so on. More money equals less service?

[QUOTE=Optimist;2263372]So if I go to a concert in a country where concerts are cheap I should pay 50 per cent over the normal price because in my home country it is more expensive?

I prefer to act according to local culture (provided of course its norms are no less ethical than those of my home country)[/QUOTE]I clearly prefer the way it used to be. 50 a half. 100 an hour. 50 CIM. But it is no longer fixed price. So I am not sure the analogy works. If the concert venue charged locals 50 and people coming from other countries where they normally pay $100, those folks would be happy to pay $75.

Again, I don't want to overpay and try not to but since individuals reference frames are different so are their decisions.

It has never been a fixed price and it's still totally possible to have good sex for 50 € each 30 min if you choose the good clubs and don't act like a wimp.

What I meant, without meaning to tackle anyone, was that I don't see why somebody should feel pity for these girls or justify their freaks. And I say it out of my career of loving at various degrees many prostitutes of all colour, origin, rank, etc.

Generally speaking about them, not just about FKK's ones, the only allowance I can do is about going with men they don't like, the smell, the sweat, the flavours, but for the rest of the things? I am envious with any woman: they can have as much sex as they like and can do whatever they want in their life without any worry by just spreading their mouths / legs, and be honoured like queens by bunches of stupid wankers dying after them while maybe contemporarily insulting their wives or reproaching their secretaries / saleswomen / waitresses / whatever job a woman working under a man can do.

What would I do if I lost my job? And while working I have to follow rules, have problems, can not travel, etc. If a woman is not so stupid to get a pimp, can't she do like many escorts do, travelling the world for instance without arguing, struggling, etc. ?

About the fact of them living in Germany at german prices... Even without considering the chance to sleep and eat in clubs... Also the workers in the night shifts of the factories live in Germany, pay a rent, support children (who stay in Germany, not in Romania!), pay taxes I guess higher than 25 euros a day, etc.

All the foreign people working abroad on a local normal / lower salary (think of those walking the streets selling umbrellars when it is raining for instance, or trying to sell the roses to couples on promenades) make huge sacrifices to spare a few tens of euros to send home.
When I was young I worked in England and I had to spare money for months to buy a 50 pounds broken down bike to be able to cycle home instead of walking (or begging for a lift to colleagues) 4 kms back to my 4 square meter room in the night after working even shifts of 16 hours.

When I am in Germany I too pay my expenses, but out of my salary, which doesn't consist of sure hundreds of euros per day. Some girls won't break even occasionally in a given day? It happens to many entrepreneurs, restaurants, pub, plumbers, car dealers, shops, etc.

But what do these girls risk? The goods they bought will go taunted? Will expire? Will remain unsold in store? Any woman, even the ugliest one, can take money out of a man if she wants: I use to say that you cannot refuse to anyone to suck your dick!

Those precious princesses who upsell the air you breath together, if end up earning "little", have to blame themselves! And must not receive any mercy or solidarity, especially by the men they mistreat/abuse/cheat/exploitate

I forgot to give you my advice: take her as a girlfriend... And let her support you! LOL! If you have problems taking her home, leave her where she is! Love can resist distance ;-D.

P.S. Don't worry about being considered a pimp. Whoever stays with someone is supposed to share earnings and help each other, actually normally is the man supporting the woman, and that's not considered a crime or anything bad. So, not to discriminate women, they must be allowed to do the same: you man may stay home ironing and washing the dishes, or get a cleaner and pay for that. Then instead of beauty salon and gym, you go to play darts or golf. A normal couple where one works and the other one is supported. If your woman was a famous singer, or a lawyer, or a manager, would it be considered bad if you lived at her expenses?

[QUOTE=Optimist;2263372]So if I go to a concert in a country where concerts are cheap I should pay 50 per cent over the normal price because in my home country it is more expensive?

I prefer to act according to local culture (provided of course its norms are no less ethical than those of my home country)[/QUOTE]+1. Exactly.

Germany is known for its fixed price and no tipping necessary culture. Even if they are moving somewhat away from the fixed price policy in p4p, the German culture to stick to the fixed prices is very strong. Germans want quality for their bucks. Why not simply adapt to this when in Germany? Why pay more than standard rate for p4 p? If hotels are cheaper in Germany than in your home country, would you be likely to overpay the same way? Or for a burger at McD? It simply does not make sense to overpay in p4 p. Furthermore; it is not necessary. There are always great goodlooking girls that provide great service at standard rates. Let's reward them with our money rather than the scammers.

Steve9696: USD 230/60 in Spain? Which club? I know Spain a little bit (I. E. Barcelona), and 230/60 is overpaying. Normal brothel rate is 80- 160 E /60 for a quality time (DFK / BBBJ / DATY / MPOS CFS included) with a goodlooking girl. I have also visited places in Barcelona that charge 200- 300 E /60 for the same services, and I have to say there is very little correlation between quality and money spent. Higher end places in Barcelona are usually tourist/rip-off places (with a few exceptions). Of course, I am aware of (but never visited) Vive in Madrid and some places in CDS with a LU possibly so good that they, like Swiss Clubs, can defend a higher rate. But those clubs are rare and not the norm.

[QUOTE=Shark16;2263506]+1. Exactly.

Germany is known for its fixed price and no tipping necessary culture. Even if they are moving somewhat away from the fixed price policy in p4p, the German culture to stick to the fixed prices is very strong. Germans want quality for their bucks. Why not simply adapt to this when in Germany? Why pay more than standard rate for p4 p? If hotels are cheaper in Germany than in your home country, would you be likely to overpay the same way? Or for a burger at McD? It simply does not make sense to overpay in p4 p. Furthermore; it is not necessary. There are always great goodlooking girls that provide great service at standard rates. Let's reward them with our money rather than the scammers.

Steve9696: USD 230/60 in Spain? Which club? I know Spain a little bit (I. E. Barcelona), and 230/60 is overpaying. Normal brothel rate is 80- 160 E /60 for a quality time (DFK / BBBJ / DATY / MPOS CFS included) with a goodlooking girl at most places. I have also visited places in Barcelona that charge 200- 300 E /60 for the same services, and I have to say there is very little correlation between quality and money spent. Higher end places in Barcelona are usually tourist/rip-off places (with a few exceptions). Of course, I am aware of (but never visited) Vive in Madrid and some places in CDS with a LU possibly so good that they, like Swiss Clubs, can defend a higher rate. But those clubs are rare and not the norm.[/QUOTE]Agree with you on Spain, but I think it is useful to note that many countries, with as good (and often better) services at a lower price at establishments favored by locals, have a barrier to entry for tourists not willing to make any effort at all. In Barcelona, and to a lesser extent in Madrid), a John wanting to access a lady at a place like Vecinitasbcn, teensbcn or Eden53 who will do the exact same session for 120 euros an hour as a lady at a place with a line-up and published address for 230-250 euros an hour (BBBJ, CIM and two pops) has to make an appointment in advance likely using WhatsApp and google translate to communicate in Spanish. He has to get an exact address a little bit before the appointment instead of the intersection that is published on the website, walk down the street and look for the number on the building, enter a door code, take an elevator to a designated floor, and find an apartment number. This might occasionally, although not always, require him to learn Spanish numerical and ordinal numbers 1 through 6.

Anyone possessing a smart phone and being intelligent enough to roll on a condom should be able to do this, but in spite of how often many of us post information of where to get the best service from the youngest, hottest ladies at the most competitive prices in Spain, a truly amazing number of guys say that this is just too complicated and they go to the most tourist-friendly walk-in brothels that have the highest prices if you purchase upsell a-la-carte services. To each his own, of course, but Germany is quite different than many other countries in that it strives to make the scene very public and open. A person can go to google maps, type in Frankfurt Airport as a starting point, and an FKK such as Oase or Palace or Sharks as the destination, and learn how to get to the front door via public transportation. Once a guy is at the front door, someone there will speak to him in English and lead him straight to a locker room, then to a working girl, who will lead him to a room where she will even roll the condom on for him.

With that few barriers to entry for a guy willing to invest no time and effort, especially if he is in Frankfurt on the company dime, I doubt that he is going to join the effort to keep prices down by refusing to pay 100 euros instead of 50.

The South American posters on ISG can be assholes, but they can be pretty savvy. The biggest barrier to entry for the low-price, high quality, areas in South America is the lack of English speaking by many of the ladies, and those posters can be damn unpleasant when suggestions are made that bridges be built to allow English-only speakers to more easily access the markets. They know that too many "gringos" can mess up their pricing, so they want a system that creates a huge barrier to entry. Learning Spanish or Portuguese in spoken form.

[QUOTE=Shark16;2263506]
Steve9696: USD 230/60 in Spain? Which club? I know Spain a little bit (I. E. Barcelona), and 230/60 is overpaying. Normal brothel rate is 80- 160 E /60 for a quality time (DFK / BBBJ / DATY / MPOS CFS included) with a goodlooking girl. I have also visited places in Barcelona that charge 200- 300 E /60 for the same services, and I have to say there is very little correlation between quality and money spent. Higher end places in Barcelona are usually tourist/rip-off places (with a few exceptions).[/QUOTE]Totally agree. My experience in Barcelona was the same. No correlation. In fact some of the best places were the cheap Chinese brothels.

In fact I just paid 60 E for a session with a 23-year old art student from Argentina, and she did everything, and blew my mind.

There are some business-minded guys on the forum who will tell you, "You get what you pay for." There is a certain appeal to this concept. It would make life a lot simpler if it were true. But in this area of life, things are more complicated. If you pay too much you will be considered an idiot, and the service could actually be much worse.

[QUOTE=MrHo;2261930]Yes, but I think it is more for business purposes, meaning they slice and cut each actions of sex as products to maximize their profitability.
[/QUOTE]A dirty secret of capitalism: usually when people try to squeeze profit out of a product, it acts directly against the quality of the product.

This is bad when the product is a web page, but tragic when the product is a woman.

[QUOTE=Shark16;2263506]

Steve9696: USD 230/60 in Spain? Which club? I know Spain a little bit (I. E. Barcelona), and 230/60 is overpaying. Normal brothel rate is 80- 160 E /60 for a quality time (DFK / BBBJ / DATY / MPOS CFS included) with a goodlooking girl. I have also visited places in Barcelona that charge 200- 300 E /60 for the same services, and I have to say there is very little correlation between quality and money spent. Higher end places in Barcelona are usually tourist/rip-off places (with a few exceptions). Of course, I am aware of (but never visited) Vive in Madrid and some places in CDS with a LU possibly so good that they, like Swiss Clubs, can defend a higher rate. But those clubs are rare and not the norm.[/QUOTE]OK I stand corrected here. All this was from memory and converting currencies. I was at Felina which is a really nice venue IMO (I don't know if it's considered a tourist trap, but I loved it). Their posted rate today is 140E/ HR which I guess is about $160. But when I was there, both girls I was with upcharged for BBBJ (maybe this can be negotiated - I did not try, as I was happy at that price for the previously discussed reasons). So a bit over $200 in a top quality room with a CIM finish. (I also should have mentioned almost all the experiences included CIM.

[QUOTE=Shark16;2263506]
Steve9696: USD 230/60 in Spain? Which club? I know Spain a little bit (I. E. Barcelona), and 230/60 is overpaying. Normal brothel rate is 80- 160 E /60 for a quality time (DFK / BBBJ / DATY / MPOS CFS included) with a goodlooking girl. I have also visited places in Barcelona that charge 200- 300 E /60 for the same services, and I have to say there is very little correlation between quality and money spent. Higher end places in Barcelona are usually tourist/rip-off places (with a few exceptions). Of course, I am aware of (but never visited) Vive in Madrid and some places in CDS with a LU possibly so good that they, like Swiss Clubs, can defend a higher rate. But those clubs are rare and not the norm.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2263553]OK I stand corrected here. All this was from memory and converting currencies. I was at Felina which is a really nice venue IMO (I don't know if it's considered a tourist trap, but I loved it). Their posted rate today is 140E/ HR which I guess is about $160. But when I was there, both girls I was with upcharged for BBBJ (maybe this can be negotiated - I did not try, as I was happy at that price for the previously discussed reasons). So a bit over $200 in a top quality room with a CIM finish. (I also should have mentioned almost all the experiences included CIM.[/QUOTE]Madrid brothels on average are about 20 less per half hour than the ones in Barcelona. 50/60 e in Madrid should get the half hour done except maybe at Rusas VIP or Even11 (also in Valencia) where 80-90 w BBBJ is going to be needed. Vive (I think) is 120 HH and the other high end venue is Pigmallion which I hear is more although recently someone reported 2 hours for 400 e. Perla Negra, la Vie en Rose, Apricots and all the name brand brothels are for tourists BUT they are always open and one can always walk in w / o an appt and be serviced on the spot. I doubt many of their clients are Spaniards, very small percentage if so. All known for upsells, Apricots the least but the woman tend to be older. Felinas is perhaps the worst, and yes it is a tourist trap but Steve had fun so who gives a shit. BCN is what it is. The brothels pay a large fee for the license which is why many independents share apartments and keep the number of girls working there under the number of girls that would require them to have a license. At least that is how it was explained. If one wants to work and hunt find your BCN deals here, the work really is not much, just WhatsApp a few at once and within minutes you are on your way.

[URL]https://www.sexomercadobcn.com/pisos-y-agencias-de-relax-tarifa-minima-100-f3.html[/URL]

These girls will do cheap halfs and hours, many are very pretty and just about all BBBJ and I hear many will go ' sin goma' as well. If you look in this section in the link below you will find the ones offering specials that day, usually any girl in ' that piso' will match it. Specials can be found here.

[URL]https://www.sexomercadobcn.com/promociones-y-ofertas-a-foreros-t1685-i932.html[/URL]#post2509966.

The sexomercado site takes a while to figure out how to navigate but it is one of the best boards I have ever come across but it does take work to hunt down girls but 75% of the girls I sent WhatsApps too ' under 100 e' replied within minutes with availability on the spot if not their friends were ready. Most are concentrated in the heart of things very easy to get to by METRO or taxi.

However, I find no fault with Steve's decision in Barcelona, Felinas offers a factor of ease and no research and it is there for guys who just want to have fun and yes there is a premium to be paid but the plus side is no work required. Walk in, pick from a LU and be happy. The places like Felinas are also much nicer and cleaner inside than cheaper alternatives.

I miss Spain it really is a great place to go but it isn't Germany and there are no places with filthy couches that girls sit on and get their pussies vashed all day long.

For the higher end places like Scandalo, Vive and Pigmallion a great source of info would probably be PayforIt; I think he has been to them and more than once, certainly much more up to date with prices than I.

[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2263551]A dirty secret of capitalism: usually when people try to squeeze profit out of a product, it acts directly against the quality of the product.

This is bad when the product is a web page, but tragic when the product is a woman.[/QUOTE]Yes. In my case as a counter strategy, if session is not delivered as promised once in the room with girl at FKK, then it gives me no choice, but cut session to 30 min 50 euro session, cum quick and done with her. Such girl could have got more money out of me as long as she deliver what was promised before entering room, but it is sad that some girls in FKK conduct business in very canning manner that some mongers accept, not me, I refuse and cut session, cum quick in 30 min, pay her 50 euro and I limit my damage to 50 euro. To be for such session 50 euro is OK and not wasted, I still fucked her.

Such case is rare, but some girls do try if they see you are weak target in FKK because it is easier to squeeze out of cash out of monger if he is desperate, which is considered as merely soft target in FKK.

As I said before, in any business transaction, both side has to benefit. Sometimes in FKK, some girls do not understand this formula and sometime in FKK some monger accept only girls side of demand with limited return.

As long as time spent is 30 min which can be backed with security camera which are set everywhere in FKK, then paying 50 euro per 30 min is fine with some arguments, security camera is all that matter, rest are she say he says, and 50 euro per 30 min is the house price and problem only occur if monger refuse to pay house price amount.

Mongers do have solution to these canning girls in FKK, just cum and cut session at 30 min and pay 50 euro and stay strong and check security camera. Problem only occur if monger refuse to pay house price.

[QUOTE=EastGoing;2263467]Generally speaking about them, not just about FKK's ones, the only allowance I can do is about going with men they don't like, the smell, the sweat, the flavours, but for the rest of the things? I am envious with any woman: they can have as much sex as they like and can do whatever they want in their life without any worry by just spreading their mouths / legs, and be honoured like queens by bunches of stupid wankers dying after them while maybe contemporarily insulting their wives or reproaching their secretaries / saleswomen / waitresses / whatever job a woman working under a man can do.[/QUOTE]Totally agree, applause.

[QUOTE=EastGoing;2263467] If a woman is not so stupid to get a pimp, can't she do like many escorts do, travelling the world for instance without arguing, struggling, etc. ?[/QUOTE]I travel alot in Asia and I met / fuck many girls there, just look at their FB and IG profiles many of them travel all around Asia and sometimes Europe / USA / Australia for meeting their multiple boyfriends (aka Sponsors) they alsways have someone pay everythings for them and they receive money every months by western union.

[QUOTE=EastGoing;2263467]Those precious princesses who upsell the air you breath together, if end up earning "little", have to blame themselves! And must not receive any mercy or solidarity, especially by the men they mistreat/abuse/cheat/exploitate[/QUOTE]Again, totally agree withyou here. No mercy at all.

Just wanted to take a moment to acknowledge and to thank all the contributors who's contributions have helped me prepare for my upcoming return to FKK-land in the coming year. In particular, thanks to Optimist, Lanthano and Kosher Kowboy and many others for your reviews, comments and opinions.

I've traveled over the years to Germany and noted the one constant was change, in the clubs, the girls and attitudes. I did not visit this past year so rtff is mandatory in light of the changes in the clubs, with the girls and also with the laws! I'll be returning to many of these clubs as I tour towns of the Half-timbered House Route. Thanks again for the updates!

I've been reading the discussions on health checks on the Sharks thread. The discussion dives into Employee vs Independent, hits and misses of the new law, etc.

For me, one major failure of the new law is that it doesn't protect the women in terms of banking or renting a house. I find it disgusting that the women working in the clubs resort to paying the club €30 per day or more to stay is a square box with no furnishings other than the bed and possibly a wardrobe. I've talked to several women who state the owners of apartments don't want to rent to them because they fear the apartment will become a place of business. Of the thousands of women working in clubs, a small minority actually have been able to rent an apartment.

Don't judge me for my friends desires. I'm just conveying this example from his dealings with a WG.

This friend tried to take a lady on a business trip to the US. Her Visa was denied because she had no employment, no German bank account and no house lease in Germany and she wasn't living and working in her home country.