Kyiv

We do not speak a word of Russian. Would like a recommendation on a friendly local guide that speaks English or Spanish and is able to take us everywhere.

[QUOTE=How14;1451328]Sorry but I'm just not believing that, you're 45, and Indian, and end up with 2 freebies off girls in there 20s? Don't think so.[/QUOTE]I second that. Been in Kiev for 2 months and hardly got 2 freebies and I'm 32 Caucasian.

[quote=angus100; 1451682]anyone have any experience with kiev connections? it's 500 dollars, but guaranteed 5 dates with beautiful women (if the service is not a scam). i would consider it if others have had good experiences.

also anybody use vk? is that better than mamba for meeting girls?

thanks[/quote]why spent $500 on a meeting site if mamba has million of potential dates free? i'd rather spend my $500 on meals with the prospects.

on vk is hard to speed date i find. it is used between friends like facebook.

[quote=globalrampage; 1459108]since my new last replies were essentially similar in that they advocate the mamba approach. that's cool, naturally i read through hundreds of posts about mamba including the links of distinction. i even thought about it but ultimately, it seemed like a game with lots of bad experiences and few good ones. most of the recent threads that i read on the forum denounce the mamba approach and say it is good if you have time to bs around and are willing to deal with the cancellations, speed dating, etc. etc. my personality isn't that of a social bufferfly. i worked from the hotel during the day and went out at night for my adventures. maybe day hunting would have changed the outcome substantially, but i don't usuallly dayhunt and most of the recent threads on mamba who sound more like me, recommended skipping mamba altogether. i'm guessing that you are barba are not of the belief that mamba is a waste of time. that's cool...[/quote]dear globalrampage,

no one criticized your report or called it into question. hence, there was no need to defend it.

your results, as reported, were, in my opinion, less than what you could have had. my comments were meant only to point the way toward a better outcome for you in the future.

i am proceeding from the premise that the goal of a "monger" on this site is to maximize the quality of the p4p pussy he can get for the most reasonable prices in the destination he is going to.

if you had different goals than that, such as you must attend to business during the day, or the like, then, of course, you may not be free to act on good advice during daytime business hours, and may therefore be accordingly limited in your results.

but do not doubt that the advice i tried to give you, and that separately and simultaneously, barba tried to give you, is anything less than the best advice you could receive, based upon considerable personal experience in the field. so despite your reading of the kiev thread, and your "intuition" about what advice would suit you best, i would urge you to reconsider some of your conclusions about how best to allocate time in seeking p4p pussy in kiev, and heed this advice. after all, it isn't every day that barba and i speak in unison. lol.

and if you have read the thread going back sufficiently, (which, in my opinion, is back to the beginning of the "post-river palace" era at the end of 2010 or beginning of 2011, about 400 pages back, at present) , then you would know that what i wrote to you as advice, is the result of my own personal transformation.

for i used to think, as you now do about mamba, that it was wasting too much time and not giving good enough results within the limited time i had. (i had less time than your 5 day trip, and usually was in kiev for no more than a 3 day weekend). so i devoted most of my energies to where i thought i had the best and most efficient chance of taking out a real beauty at the lowest price such beauties could be had, which in my opinion, was at rio strip club at $300/3hours, after experiencing higher prices than that at the nightclubs. but since the strip club was closed during the day, i continued to experiment with other escort websites, as well as mamba, during the daytimes.

in the beginning period when i was doing this my results using mamba were not producing girls as good in quality and beauty as the rio strippers. so if one were to ask me to compare the results of mamba usage, to going to rio, i would have said that clearly going to rio was better, because even though the price was higher than mamba girls asking $75 / hr or $100 / hr, the girls at rio looked so much better, and it was worth it.

however, continuing my efforts to meet girls on mamba over time, i eventually began to meet a few really pretty ones, and that process has continued, to the point that presently, most of my time in kiev is preoccupied with dates with mamba girls i know from before and think are great.

i have already made several p4p appointments for sex during each of my upcoming 4 days in kiev, such that i will already have had great sex with one or maybe two hotties each day, before i even get to rio, or a nightclub in the evening. and on some nights i will be occupied with hotties from mamba, and won't even be able to get out to a rio or any other strip club or nightclub.

this was the advice that i was told by other veterans of kiev. to keep plugging away on mamba and it will pay off over time. i have come to witness the truth of this, and thus my transformation. i have now come to see with my own eyes the value of being persistent over time with mamba. it won't yield guaranteed spectacular results right away, unless you're quite lucky. but given enough effort and time, i am convinced that anyone screwing the caliber of girls i have gotten from of mamba, would never call it a waste of time.

there is a difference between a waste of time and a difficult or tedious task. whereas a waste of time will lead to nothing; a difficult task may lead to spectacular results. for some sooner, than for others. it is the luck of the draw.

therefore, even if you really have very limited time in kiev of a few days, (and i will assume you probably will be back) , it will still be worth it to try to collect a good number of contacts for p4p from mamba in the weeks preceding a trip to kiev, and to meet as many of them as you can. you may meet some spectacular girls. and at night continue to do your thing at the clubs.

and if you can't spare any time during the day for mongering in kiev, then continue with the rio strip club, or other nightclubs, at night, to see what's on offer, but also try to fit some internet girls in when you can, and over time you will collect a nice amount of contact info for those you want to see more of in the future.

the contacts you develop through mamba are freer to connect with. it's next to impossible to make a connection with a rio girl to stay in touch with you and meet you outside the club. they always want you to come to the club to take them out.

and of course the price is different with a mamba girl, as you are free to keep to one hour appointments to keep the costs down with most girls from mamba. so there are definite advantages to dealing with girls from mamba, in terms of the freedom of interaction and the low cost, compared to the restrictive high priced strip club take out girls.

don't misunderstand me. i am just as excited as i always was, to see a really hot girl dancing at rio, and get her to come home with me for sex. it's a realization of desires and dreams of many years in strip clubs back in the states, to want to have sex with the dancer of my dreams, and only getting heartache for it in the past. and now for a mere $300, i can have my way with such a girl for hours so easily. it's awesome.

but the bottom line is that i have also met other awesome looking girls in kiev from mamba, and they were available to me for a fraction of the cost. so it's worth it in the end over time.

lj

[QUOTE=GlobalRampage; 1458593]This was my first time in the Ukraine, although I've been on adventures in other EE countries. I did my homework on ISG and went out to see Kiev in action. Here's my summary of the week. First night I went to Skybar but it was a Karaoke night and I couldn't tell who was working if any were. I headed off to Buddha Bar and sat at the bar. I was quickly approached by a girl who said that she wanted me to take her home for 300$ USD. It was starting to get late on a Sunday and she wasn't bad. I figured this wasn't a bad way to start my week, so I took her home. Or should I say that she drove us to my hotel in her car. It was a pro-session, covered BJ, just what I expect from a WG mechanically. The attitude was more semi-pro. The next day, she offered to take me around in the evening, so I figured why not. She picked me up and we went to a restaurant. Ordering local Ukrainian dishes and no alcohol, somehow we built up a tab of over 850 Grinvas. I certainly didn't eat very much so I'm guessing the prices were quite inflated due to me being American. Still, it wasn't a big deal so we went on a walk back to the hotel did our thing, same fee, and she went home. The next adventure was me trying Skybar on a Wed. And it being closed, so I went to Shooters. P. S. I did not experience racism and I honestly don't think that the people I encountered at Shooters were racist. Shooters was a straight up disco and I couldn't tell a WG from a non-WG. I was approached by a couple locals but they weren't pretty. There were pretty girls who appeared to have boyfriends who wouldn't quit staring at me. Since I don't speak Russian or Ukrainian and was alone, I thought it a good idea to err on the side of caution. So I left Shooters and headed to the fallback. Rio. Rio was surprisingly simple. It is small. The girls dance on stage, if you like one, tell the manager and she will walk over. For 300$ USD, she goes home with you. The first girl I liked didn't speak a word of English, but the second girl did. We went back to my hotel and had the expected WG session. I was kind of pissed off that she smoked in the room when it was written everywhere not to smoke. But quickly got over that during the session. She didn't ask for taxi fare home or try to upsell me in any way.

The argument about whether the club girl or the strip club girl makes better financial sense. I must admit that I can't decide either. In the end, I spent less money at the strip club and had more selection. Having a girl show me around some local places on my dime is less entertaining when we are spending non-local prices for everything. That was my week in Kiev. In conclusion, I wouldn't return to Kiev without learning some Russian or meeting up with someone who can speak the language. There is SO much opportunity in Kiev, the women are so hot, but if you don't speak the language, you are just going to feel bad due to the opportunity lost.[/QUOTE]I have been many times in Kiev and even I can speak some Russian I really don't think its a key point to sucsess. I do use english when I am there, sure sometimes my Russian skills has to come in play. But overall there is plenty of women that can speak english and will gladly do that. Key point to sucsess in Kiev is cultural averness and to be "qualified".

[QUOTE=LilJoey;1459565]I continued to experiment with other escort websites, as well as mamba, during the daytimes.[/QUOTE]Let me know a little about your experiment with escort websites.

It seems to be very cheap. 300UAH / h and some 100UAH / h.

[QUOTE=Soren60; 1459763]Let me know a little about your experiment with escort websites.

It seems to be very cheap. 300UAH / h and some 100UAH / h.[/QUOTE]Dear Soren60,

I here with send you a special personal invitation to read my filed reports about escort sites I have tried and written about. In fact, there hasn't been anything that I tried in the search for good p4p in Kiev that I haven't written about. So it is all there. My initial reports began in or about March of 2011. And in reading the reports since then you will pick up all the information you need to have a great time in Kiev.

And you don't need to speak Russian, or pay a guide to do it!

There are many escort sites for Kiev. Using a Google search of "escort Kiev" will bring up many of the ridiculously high priced websites with hourly prices of 150 Euro and up. These are set up to catch ignorant western sex tourists and capitalize on their ignorance by getting them to pay such exhorbitant sums for sex in Kiev. No one reading this thread would be such a dummy. But there are plenty of suckers out there who they get to pay such high amounts. The prices are more typical of prices in Western Europe. But such prices are far above the actual cost of paid sex in Kiev. So point number one is don't be a dummy who is duped into paying high escort prices of the websites you find by doing an English language search on Google for escorts. Instead, read this thread on ISG thoroughly for the past few years (2011 to present) and become an educated sex consumer in Kiev.

Point two is to remember the axiom that all the websites use stolen photos of pretty models to attract you to call them. They do not have the girl in the picture in their agency's employ. They do not even know who she is. They simply stole her picture from somewhere on the Internet, and are using it to attract you to call them. Sorry to burst your bubble if you were hoping for different news. It is a universally practiced dishonest sales tactic called "bait and switch". First use something that looks really good to attract the attention of the potential customer. Then after he is already involved in considering what you want to sell him, try to use his desires and needs to get him to buy something else that you actually have in stock to sell him. In the sex for money business the customer has powerful needs and sex feelings that make him an easy target to buy something that is not the picture in the website because he is so horny at that moment he can't stop himself. So you see a gorgeous looking girl in their website, you call the agency asking if the girl you saw is available and if the pictures are really true. The promise and swear that it is her try picture, and also that she speaks English, and you make a booking based on that. Then they hang up the phone on you and laugh about how you are another sucker. And they send any girl they have on hand or whose turn it is to go on a call, to go to your apartment. When she gets there, and you open the door, you see a girl standing there who looks nothing like the beautiful hot girl you expected and were promised. You tell the girl, you're not the girl in the website picture! She says,"no, it is me." Or What's worse, the girl who came speaks no English. You call the agency and complain that it is not the girl in the picture, and they claim it is. Or they say, the girl in the picture was already busy, or wasnt in just then etc. Don't you like the girl they sent? You are horny as hell, so you start looking their girl over more closely. If she has some sexiness or appeal, you most probably will say,"ok, the hell with it, I'll keep her," especially if they throw in a price discount. And so you ordered a supermodel, and an average looking girl showed up, and you kept her for sex because you were very horny, and she was good looking enough for you to fuck, just to get the edge off your horniness.

That is what will by and large happen if you call an escort website agency in Kiev, even the lower more reasonable priced ones. I have described it for you, so that when it happens to you. And it will. That you will be able to recognize what is occurring.

Having said this axiom that all the websites, except noted exceptions, are using fake pictures, you are in a position to answer what you should do after you see a website like:

[url]Www.escort-models.com[/url]

Now I want you to go ahead and open that website up, select the English version, and click on the "models" tab to bring up all their models. Go ahead, open it up. I'll wait for you. Ok now I want you to start clicking on some of their pretty girls that they advertise you can have for a proper price in Kiev of $100 / hr or thereabouts. Are you seeing their pretty girls? Are your juices starting to flow. And the prices are so reasonable! It's perfect. So you select one of them and make a booking.

I can assure you that the girl you selected, is not the girl who will show up. In my case, a pretty blond girl showed up who was so skinny and tiny and petite, that it wasn't sexy to me. I told her she was pretty but I need a different type. I showed her on my laptop the picture of the girl I was expecting. I asked her,"does your agency have anyone who looks like these girls on their website? She said you want a beautiful girl? I will get them to send one. And she called the agency and told them what I wanted. Anyways, eventually another girl did show up who was in fact quite beautiful. So I was happy in the end.

The lesson to be learned from my story is that just because the websites are using fake pictures, does not mean that you shouldn't use them. Because the real value of the low priced websites is the low price! They will deliver a girl to your doorstep who is prepared for sex at the stated price if 60 Euro ($80) or 80 Euro ($106). That is a huge step forward. A big achievement in Kiev. You are working with the right prices for Kiev. You aren't in a nightclub where you don't know who is a regular girl and who is a working girl, and you have to waste tge whole night trying to figure this out and then get the working girl home to your apartment. The girl they sent to your door is ready for sex right then and there for the stated low price. You are not in a nightclub where working girls are pitching prices like $300 or $400 at you, or higher. You are working in a price range of $80 to $106 dollars, which is where you want to be in Kiev. So all that is good. The only variable that you need to worry about is the quality of the girl and her services. There are all types of girls from various levels of beauty. But one only has to walk around the streets of Kiev to know that this population has a lot of pretty girls in it. And you are not drawing from the whole population pool. You are drawing from the pool of young Ukrainian women in their 20's. So there is definitely a pretty good statistical chance that a nice looking skinny young girl will show up eventually.

So my advice would be that if you have the time to experiment, then do it. The worst that can happen is that if you don't like the way the girl looks, you can send her back. So there may be some time wasted until you get something closer to what you want. You won't ever be able to just select the best looking girl in sight, like you can do in those places where you see the girls in advance, like strip club or nightclub, or in the street, or shopping malls. And the looks of the girl who shows up at your door will be the result of random choice. But nevertheless, there is a chance that a pretty girl might eventually show up, if you keep at it.

There are a few websites that are reported to use actual, but photoshopped, photos, such as [url]www.gia-escort.com[/url], which is very high priced. And I have noted that in 2010, I did get two escorts from [url]www.top-modals.com[/url] Who were labelled "real photo" who actually were. But I cannot vouch for their use of that term generally, and it must be experimented with to see if others are using true photos also. True photos are less likely when dealing with an agency, rather than an independent girl. So if you see a lot of ads on that website all with the same phone number, it is likely an agency or girl apartment advertising. And there are some very hot looking girls on top-modals. Com that I would like to try, if I could find some time in between mamba girls appointments. Maybe you will do some sampling and report on it, Soren?

LJ, I think we are getting well synchronized. The past is the past. As I said from when I started to read your posts. You have a systematic approach to this game and take your time to divide and conquer all the information you handle. I respect this. Perhaps verbose reports sometimes, but anyone going the first time to Kiev, should absolutely take the time to read your posts.

Hell, it seems we are even going to the same "Knightish vacation destination" so we better become friends again and share our experiences. LOL. LJ if your on VK, we should connect. I do absolutely not bite and I know your a nice guy that appreciate sharing.

GlobalRampage, you seem like a decent bloke. Next time you fly into Kiev you can drop me your email address via PM and I will send you some reliable providers. This will be the last time I share with strangers, since there has been a great deal of sharing on Barba's behalf and very little receiving of contacts in return. Some guys struggle a bit and have nothing to share, and other guys just do not give a fuck once they got what they needed. We have a little circle of guys now and that is enough.

B

As LJ is suggesting, I will take a couple of days some time and play escort site roulette with a site like [url]http://escort-models.com.[/url] Throw in a bunch of Andros and then just bang anything they send me in the name of statistical research.

Anyone that tried this? If yes, what would you say is the "percentage of fulfillment"? 100% is getting exactly what you asked for. 10% would mean begging her to use condom and bag over the head.

B

[QUOTE=LilJoey; 1459902]Dear Soren60,

I here with send you a special personal invitation to read my filed reports about escort sites I have tried and written about. In fact, there hasn't been anything that I tried in the search for good p4p in Kiev that I haven't written about. So it is all there. My initial reports began in or about March of 2011. And in reading the reports since then you will pick up all the information you need to have a great time in Kiev.

And you don't need to speak Russian, or pay a guide to do it!

There are many escort sites for Kiev. Using a Google search of "escort Kiev" will bring up many of the ridiculously high priced websites with hourly prices of 150 Euro and up. These are set up to catch ignorant western sex tourists and capitalize on their ignorance by getting them to pay such exhorbitant sums for sex in Kiev. No one reading this thread would be such a dummy. But there are plenty of suckers out there who they get to pay such high amounts. The prices are more typical of prices in Western Europe. But such prices are far above the actual cost of paid sex in Kiev. So point number one is don't be a dummy who is duped into paying high escort prices of the websites you find by doing an English language search on Google for escorts. Instead, read this thread on ISG thoroughly for the past few years (2011 to present) and become an educated sex consumer in Kiev...[/QUOTE]I'm new here and will read your posts. I plan to arrive in September. When the crowds go home and the ladies get beck to school.

[QUOTE=Barba; 1460324]As LJ is suggesting, I will take a couple of days some time and play escort site roulette with a site like.

[url]http://escort-models.com.[/url]

Throw in a bunch of Andros and then just bang anything they send me in the name of statistical research.

Anyone that tried this? If yes, what would you say is the "percentage of fulfillment"? 100% is getting exactly what you asked for. 10% would mean begging her to use condom and bag over the head.

B[/QUOTE]Receptionist can speak English. Explain to her what you want and hopefully you get a doable one

[QUOTE=Global Surfer;1460573]Receptionist can speak English. Explain to her what you want and hopefully you get a doable one[/QUOTE]To be honest GS, I don't think they really care what you describe you want. They can only send who they have. Perhaps the best strategy is to tell them you are thinking of a little party, and if the girls look good enough you might consider booking more than one girl, so they should send you their three best girls to choose from. Maybe they will send more than one girl at a time. That way you can accelerate the process of reviewing what they have, give yourself better odds of drawing a "doable" girl on each time you spin the escort roulette wheel. Perhaps they are in a position to send multiple girls easily. I know, for example, from experience with late night escort agencies in Miami or Montreal, what they are doing is that a couple of girls are in a car with an agency driver, waiting for calls, and riding around town going to calls. So it may be an easy matter for the driver to stop at your address, and send up more than one girl. If they go along with this request, even if you don't go for a threesome session, and only keep one girl, make sure to get the individual name for each other girl you might like, so you can request specifically her in the future, knowing what she looks like.

Also, when prospecting for good pussy in this blind fashion, whether it be meetings with escorts from escort agency websites, or from mamba, I have found it less frustrating to lower the standards that I usually apply when looking for p4p in a strip club or night club, where I am seeking a "9" or a "10" if you can find one, and will never settle for anything less than a true "8". Instead, because of the low prices these girls are asking from escort agencies or mamba of $75 or $100, I tell myself that at such low prices I will just enjoy some sportfucking if the girls have a sexy enough body and nice enough face to be "doable". It broadens the range of girl who might be deemed acceptable to stay for 1 hour in my apartment. And let's face it, fucking is fun, even if the girl is not a supermodel also, as long as she has sex appeal to you. And she will be a "one-timer" with you, unless she looks good enough in your eyes, or her service is so exceptional, that you decide she goes into your contact list for repeats in the future.

[QUOTE=Loquito;1459512]We do not speak a word of Russian. Would like a recommendation on a friendly local guide that speaks English or Spanish and is able to take us everywhere.[/QUOTE]Loquito. And everybody else on the forum. I know of a truly excellent guide for Kiev. His name is Alex, he's Ukrainian with an excellent command of English. He's very professional, knows the city extremely well, and will take good care of you. I say this in all seriousness, I met him a few years ago during my first time in Kiev and the trip was 1000x better because of it.

He knows the P4P scene and can help you out. Please PM me and I will happily pass his email address over to you.

[QUOTE=LilJoey; 1456265]This conclusion is based on the repetitiveness of your harping about how good it is to have a guide, over and over again, clearly in the manner of an advertisement.

Besides, what you just wrote to me makes no sense at all. You are claiming that because you are older you cannot get young girls for GFE even when you pay for them as escorts in the States, and only Alex your Kiev guide can get you young girls for GFE as paid escorts? This is rubbish. If you are willing to pay for sex, you can get a young GFE escort in the States too. Money is the great equalizer. Older men with money and power have been getting young pussy for ages. And you can certainly get paid escorts in Kiev without the need for a guide, by this time. You just won't be able to deal with those girls that don't speak English. But you shouldn't really want to take home a p4p escort girl who can't speak English anyways, because the communication difficulty will make it less enjoyable and detract from the GFE. By this time after several trips to Kiev, you already know where the nightclubs are. You can go and stand at the bar like the other horny guys and wait for contact with a hot working girl who speaks English. You know what the proper rates are by now and can negotiate on your own, as you claim you are a businessman...[/QUOTE]LJ,

I'm saying this with respect as you're a senior member around here. USGrant is not Alex. I know Alex too. I hired him a few years ago in to take me around Kiev, and last year to arrange a week-long bachelor party for a friend of mine. You have some good points regarding guides, but if a less experienced traveler wanted to hire one for Kiev or somewhere else in Ukraine Alex really would be the way to go.

From your writings though, I am going to try out Buddha Bar next time I'm in Kiev.

JCrichton

[QUOTE=LilJoey;1460659]And let's face it, fucking is fun, even if the girl is not a supermodel also, as long as she has sex appeal to you. And she will be a "one-timer" with you, unless she looks good enough in your eyes, or her service is so exceptional, that you decide she goes into your contact list for repeats in the future.[/QUOTE]Exact what I think.

I find this site on the web. Threads are sorted by agency phone-nr.

Can I trust the comments on site?

You have to use Google-Translate.

[url]http://ebiteua.com/forum1-ptu-im-m-s-panikovskogo.html[/url]