Mother cluster o strip club reporting and other crap
ok, trying to be more concise and less ranty for this:
- mandarin: seems to be the best girls, they are on a circuit with rio, depending on the day (the schedule depending on the alignment of the stars) you will get better girls here than rio. one nice thing is that you will get 3-5 on stage at a time so you gae a long look. unlike "russian style" strip clubs nobody hassles the hell out of you for tips. you want something, you ask, you get it. you're done it goes away. good service and staff all around. visited with rio as well but the girls were mostly a half grade lower. mandarin did seem to have a "hotties" shift and then at the end of the circuit the fatties. never saw fatties at a ukraine strip club before but it seems to becoming more common. reasons left as an exercise to the reader.
took a girl home from the mandarin but it was mechanical and surgical and happy to see her go even though she was 9/10. i'm getting old. boring is boring, bye.
- solid gold: hit and miss as some girls only working here 2 nights a week and set their schedule or share out with other clubs (yet to be determined). on a good night here a year ago i saw the most beautiful girl ever in kiev. she was working there 1 month and didn't last another month. since then, mix of fatties and some half decent girls. one stunner was working there hardcore for a year or so, always saw her on returns, tall girl with perfect lean body and dark hair. never made it to the end of the night as she was taken out. took a dance from her once and she got really clammy-sweaty and kind of no-thanks from there. but this can be a place to stop in and check out and maybe you get lucky. price is $300. if the girl asks for champagne (900 uah) say no, cocktail (like 250). the downgrade from champagne is wine which is 600 uah and she probably won't drink it. so just say no, cocktail and give her the choice to walk. this won't affect what she thinks of you, so might as well save some money.
- mint rhino, one of the 3-5 rhino clubs (nosorog) which are confusing and beyond count and located in ludicrous areas and any taxi driver you ask says,"no. bad club. let me take you to mandarin / rio." well he's half right, sometimes the girls at the nosorog clubs are much better looking and are real dancers so if you don't want to watch a girl just turn her hips every 2 seconds, and want some pole dancing these places have it. sometimes. there is a promo every 30 mins where the girls go around and you get 3 dances for 200 uah. other places charge 200 for one dance i believe. downside is that the sales staff can be super pushy, this lets the girl sit there and be innocent "oh i don't know the price i don't know nothing blah blah" and the staff is hammering you with buy champange, buy drinks for this girl, buy food. really big on the food. also the nosorog clubs have the russian style tactic of the first girl who sees you grabs a menu and tries to seat you then sit down with you. this is forcing your hand. the result is to probably ask for still water and say no company and look like a guy with no cash until you have a chance to look around. mint is like way out in the boonies and a pain to get to. after you're in a no-taxi zone so need to get the called taxis. nothing around there. just stupid location, club is small. 500 minimum to sit again and not enough girls to make it interesting. when the promo comes in star on a good night you could have 50 to pick from and they all come out and go after you and leave you alone at other times which is a happy balance between the two. you can get your "nos" out at the same time without hurting feelings and you have your chance at that girl you had your eye on but couldn't get the attention from. however, mint has like 7 girls on a thursday. just a waste of time. nobody interesting anyway.
- rio: girls were ok, nothing spectacular, took a girl there on the date and she couldn't find one she wanted for a lapdance. nor could i really. so it's not just me with stupid standards. thing is at the end of the night a couple of real stunners came in so looks like some smart jerks from this website got there way too early and snuck off with the hotties. thanks jerks.
- star nosorog has its own post below which was the worst strip club experience i've ever had. only second worst was my previous visit in which this club had five dancers working. four of whom were bored out of their pants. fifth of which knew me from before and ran right over. she is cute so no biggie. but started in with the "i want champagne" and i asked her how much and got the "i don't know." i looked at her and said i have seen you every time in this club i came in for the last 2 years. don't treat me like an idiot. you know what the prices are. had a dance from her but at that point she just has a routine and bores the hell out of me, and her other trick is to get the drinks order and then "i will be right back". you won't see her for a long time, until she dances or just before the private dance promotion where she plans on milking you for some cash. she's a real pro but seems ditzy and nice, plus side is she's beautiful and a great body and sometimes decent mileage in the dances. there was one girl though at this club which is the reason i was returning, a psychologist that was in all ways perfect and not a snake at all, but sadly on 2 tries not finding her and then dealing with cock dancing that was the end of that hunt.
- millenium. this is of course your second worse choice you can make for a few reasons. first some of these girls have been at the grind for 3 years. now god knows what they are exposed to at this point. most of the patrons come from the shithole that is the dnipro hotel. yet surprisingly the rate for the girls for the night is $500. private dances are 400, for two songs. sometimes i have seen the best looking dancers in the city at this place, but as time has gone by the quality has gone down as the price went up. the stunning perfect body slender muscular good dancing ukrainian girl is now gone there. you have instead the old timer hang like girls, and 50% of them are fat (this is a bad trend for ukraine. fucking western food getting in here). and a glass of wine for the girls is 600 uah so they want that, the more alcohol they put away the fatter of course they get. and more money. also here the girls will come up and hassle you and do the full sales script,"i want to drink with you / how much? i don't know i just started here two days ago / ok call the waitress / waitress gives you some insane number like 900 uah and you are either a stupid who thinks this will help you to say yes to, or you have to deal with the pressure when you give the nos and reduce it down. from there's the expensive dances and finally you exit. with the girl you pay almost double rio / mandarin. before you could get better quality but now you get a horse that has been ridden by a thousand plus riders or a fat girl. take your pick and ask you if it's worth it to you.
alternatives.
buddha bar has gogo dancers on saturday and i think friday night. so does d'lux and skybar. all of these girls are smokin. the best are at d'lux then skybar then buddha bar. summaries:
- d'lux, if a girl gets in here to ask you a price she thinks she should cost more because she's in dlux and everything is stupid expensive here. it's worth it to go though and drink and maybe you get randomly lucky in what you find, because the music is good and the go-go dancers are smokin smokin perfect. so good for a visit. clientelle when i was there didn't seem very special though. just people who think they are getting upgraded by being there i suppose.
- buddha bar: what a sad tale of mismanagement this place has been. a friend of mine that i dated said she went once with six girls to have a girls party and they were denied entrance. not just asked for money, they wouldn't open the door. meanwhile our turkish friends from this site and elsewhere pour in like the huns are behind them. so you can get into this place on a wed. or thursday and get a 9:1 male to female ratio. that makes the three average looking girls at the bar secure in asking their $500 they want. and will probably get because one guy out of that 90 is going to say "fuck it" and do it. excluding normal girls from entering is just backwards thinking, the bar is transforming into a hooker-only bar with no hookers. please, let normal girls in they are fun to talk with and maybe date. let the hookers in too. both will bring men who look for girls for one thing or another and spend money. instead, bb. is investing money in the go-go dancers which are supposed to help. but they're so hot that you don't even look at anyone else in there now. so your options all look like absolute crap because you're looking at something you absolutely cannot have unless you have a jesus level access to this club. so, every time here, the bar is even lower. they need to just turn themselves into a normal bar and get girls in there who want to party and have fun and the rest will work itself out. it's worse and worse every time but i check in just to report and see and i like the music. one drink is all i need to observe and get out. so on a saturday this time i was surprised because there was just nobody there. empty spots at the bar and most of the seats empty with a rep001tering of people. basically this means that the kiev locals have decided this place is *dead* and have gone elsewhere. so i did too.
- skybar: also home of the hot gogo dancers and also a more beautiful and nicely mixed crowd. only bad thing is there is almost zero chance of talking to anyone. hi to one girl got the phone flipped out, a response of "how do i find you" and exchange of facebook details. can't really talk much in there. not sure what comes of that either. got another friendly girl happy to smile and talk a bit for what that was worth. offers of drinks turned down. seems to be a nice choice on most days. music was very very good and people enjoying themselves. after i left and went to solid gold and came back to the area saw super hotties leaving the club with doorknob type guys. well good job to you dudes, hats off. must be good dancers.
- serebro: went there once, older crowd, men mostly middle eastern, women mostly 28-35 looking for their middle eastern husband to marry them and take them out of their hellhole or so i guessed. can't sit because tables cost $500. can't stand because there's no room at the bar. so you take your drink and stand there in the middle of nowhere like everyone else and kind of move around like you're dancing. so if you really want to dance no doubt it's fine and if you're a hot girl you can leave your shit anywhere and nobody will complain. 40 year old dude, really not going to get the same treatment. didn't last there.
- coyote ugly, checked it out, very young crowd, lots of pretty girls going in. i eventually just bailed on it as i thought it would be no good for me and went to avalon.
- avalon, wasn't too impressed with the disco. bar is like almost walled off from the dance floor so you can't see what's going on and if you don't want to stare at your fat ugly man neighbor or overweight prostititute trying to get your interest but would rather see the hotties on the dance floor you have a problem. get out there and dance and look like an idiot or just deal. i just dealt. then left.
one thing i've been noticing is that ukrainians have been telling me "good luck" now and then. customs dues on entering. girls taking coats at the clubs. it makes me laugh a bit and i guess is their wink to western tourists looking for "nice girls."
had a couple of dates with a girl i met online, she was nice but a bit distant and seeming uninterested, too much age gap though she still wants me to call her i think it may be because she is hungry.
last but not least:
met the infamous (nefarious?) irishlad who is a great all around guy. had trouble trying to pay everything and have to basically re-do the whole thing and make sure i can get the orders in and bills sent to me. i arrived late due to no frickin hot water in ukraine and he rolled with it with style. had a good time at shooters which is really the place to be. people having fun, a mix of girls just looking to amuse themselves and find something whatever it may be. like us.
when ir approaches the club it is like moses parting the red sea.
alternate metaphor.
when ir approaches the club it's like the introductory shot to goodfella's.
you have to stay in his wake and get swept up until your table. it was one of my better experiences in ukraine. had what seemed to me to be a choice between a super cute brunette and an "experienced" blondinka and i chose. poorly. got a phone number but rejection by silence. oh well. it's the kind of place though unlike the fancier clubs where the music level lets you actually talk a bit and people are there having fun and are approachable. they are smart enough to know that the girls are their resource to bring the men who bring the money and they do it. unlike the moron management at bb who has a great club but is trying hard to drive it into the ground. still can't get over the fact that they face controlled a group of models. girl models.
trip here is almost done. i don't log in here every day but offer is open to wingman if i can get synchronized with someone and don't have a date going on. maybe tuesday.
anyway at the end of the day kiev is what you make of it. starting with the strip clubs it's a really clear result: you get to pick, quality is iffy and you're getting someone who is pro down to their toes. on the other end of the spectrum if you can chat up a girl on the street and get something out of that you're a hero because the street is filled with pretty girls. that's out of my punching weight. just some of these places: avoid. the biggest one is buddha bar.
the men flooding into that place and spending money and *waiting* for something to happen are ruining it. you're giving them what they want, a sausage fest of guys getting drunk waiting for like 3 girls to show up. boycott it. get the hell out until they let the girls back in. other places are doing ladies nights and this place is actively blocking girls from coming. if you reward that by showing up with your 3-7 guys in your group and spend a bunch of money waiting, you just make it worse. bring your money elsewhere and support good clubs that are fun. let bb then sort out how to run an establishment according to the no frickin duh basic rules of let the hot girls in and the men with money will follow and who cares what your customers choose to do as long as they are paying you for service.
Some basics for those too lazy to read prior posts
hioctane,
please clear out your messages.
here's my response to your basic questions, which may benefit other members who are just beginning too:
[quote=hioctane]thanks for the detailed response!
a couple of questions about mamba. how should i approach these girls? should i go straight to the chase and ask "$75 for the hour?" as suggested on the board? when i meet these girls initially, is it just for coffee or should i negotiate something?
the nightclubs. is the going rate $150-200 per hour? or is that the rate for the higher end clubs (budda and d'lux)?
i do like the dating thing. taking a girl out to dinner, dancing etc. should i negotiate a price for this (mamba girl).
thanks again![/quote]you seem oblivious of all the good advice i already posted on the thread in my prior reports and responses. so your first instruction is to click on my name in one of my posts, which will open a box with four links, one of which is to view my prior posts. click on that link and get a list of my prior posts going back a certain amount of time. the. you can review the list of links to my prior reports and read them easily, including those on the use of mamba. that's your homework. if you do it, you will gain, and not lose. it will more than answer your questions. reading my prior posts going back to march of 2011 will open your eyes.
now since i advised you that you must immediately start on mamba to get contacts prior to your trip, and you have very little time, i will answer what you asked. i don't know who suggested a first message of "$75 / hour" but i think it's a bit blunt as a start. it will definitely earn rejection by all girls except hardened p4p girls or agencies. it clearly identifies you as a "sex tourist" and no normal dates will result from it. so the only ones to respond positively will be those girls or agencies interested in p4p at that price, or a counter proposal with their price will be received. there is a certain logic to doing it that way, since it cuts right to the point about p4p. however, i have preferred to make my initial messages more ambiguous and simply suggest a meeting. that way any girl who likes my profile can respond. i leave it to them to suggest money, which p4p girls will always do before meeting. they identify themselves before meeting because they want the money. so the burden is on them to ask for it. don't worry, they will ask for it. but this more ambiguous approach allows a regular girl also to respond. so if i like her and have time, i can try to date her and get a freebie. and if i don't have time, because i have too many p4p dates to check out or fuck, then i blow off the meeting.
because you don't know what any mamba girl really looks like before you actually meet, due to the widespread use of fake pictures, it has been suggested to have a series of speed dates for coffee or a drink to pre-qualify which mamba girls you would consider inviting to your apartment. and you can set up a series of short half hour meetings at various downtown bars or cafe's and when you are done with a girl meeting, you just say you have another appointment and head off to the next meeting point. and those girl that you like, you schedule for a meeting at your apartment later that day or night, or the next day. but i think that system is better suited to a longer visit to kiev with more days there. so on a short visit of 3 or 4 days, i prefer to meet the girls at my apartment, and to fuck all those that are doable (why not? it's cheap enough) , and to send away all those that i don't care to fuck. the mamba girls who are p4p have already identified themselves as such in mamba messages and told you a price. so all you have to decide is if they are attractive enough for you for sex, and whether they will do what you like in sex in a gfe manner.
nightclubs at the high end the girls start off asking $400 or $500. you can negotiate that and both seek more time for that price (2 or 3 hours is not unreasonable) , as well as seek a lower total price ($300 is usually as low as high end girls will go) , so with high end girls the best you can usually negotiate down to is $300/2 hours, which is $150 / hr net. but i wouldn't go for this unless the girl is really gorgeous and the service level very high, because you can get pretty damn good girls out of rio strip club at a $300/3hours rate, which is $100 / hr net. at buddha bar and d'lux the high priced girls operate. but at other nightclubs you might be able to get better prices than at rio. and it has been reported that you can get girls for $200/2 hours, which is the same rate as rio, but a smaller total outlay. and you can also find girls who will accept an offer of $100, and that is for an hour, or even several hours, which is a better price. so you can try to find lower cost girls at the other nightclubs mentioned on the thread.
i would not consider paying a girl money to have dinner. i only pay for sex. however if i take her for a whole night and have sex with her, then there are many hours to occupy, and i would then consider taking her out, if she wants, to go to a nightclub to dance or to go eat something. but this adds to the expense obviously. and most girls taken for the whole night will anyways prefer to sleep than to go out.
lj
