American Politics

[QUOTE=Tiny12;2854168]Brother Marquis and Brother Tooms, I'm glad I've brought you together and healed the hatred and loathing in your hearts. OK, "hatred and loathing" is much too strong. But see, you're united in your opinion of Mitt Romney! While I disagree with you about Mitt, I hope some day in some faraway place we can join hands and sing Kumbaya![/QUOTE]I don't think we are exactly united in our negative opinion of MittWitt. Also, we have formed a negative one of him for different reasons.

I assume Marquis hates him for having half the guts to vote to convict his lord and savior in the Senate for at least one of his blatantly obvious Impeachment-worthy infractions; his clumsy, fully witnessed attempt to extort Zelenskyy into fabricating dirt on Biden with our tax dollars specifically earmarked by Congress to defend his country from Putin's idiotic invasion.

I don't hate MittWitt. I only dismiss him as just another Know Nothing Repub who clearly doesn't know anything about how to recover, expand and create jobs in a complex national economy like the USA economy. But, like all Repubs, he thinks he knows better than the least successful Dem in that regard for how to do it. Which he does not, of course.

Interesting that Marquis often implores me to use drugs in order to see things his way and now he wants you to stop using drugs to achieve the same result.

[QUOTE=Elvis 2008;2853800]Anything you don't like is Fox News. That was actually Matt Taibbi doing something you don't recognize Spidy, telling the truth.[/QUOTE]Don't know who the guy is?

As of for the truth...well that's pretty much in the eye of the beholder, for the most part. Now this concept my seem forigen to you and QAnon/MAGA Repubs cult fringe, but incontrovertible FACTS and HARD EVIDENCE, is definitely something I can hang my hat on.

[b]When Did Republicans Start Hating Facts?[/b]
[URL]https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/14/opinion/republicans-reagan-disinformation.html[/URL]

[QUOTE=Elvis 2008;2853800]And by lies, you mean what? You mean Joe Biden did not get Shokin fired? You mean Shokin was not investigating Hunter for a corrupt business deal? You mean Hunter did not say in his laptop that Dad gets half of all he earns? You mean the FBI did not want that 1023 non-classified document released? You mean the memo did not say $5 million for each Biden? And Hunter Biden did not himself say that he would not have been hired by Burisma if not for his last name? [/QUOTE] Life's too short! Like I said, I tend not to pay too much attention to hearsay, lies and conspiracy theories. Perhaps when hard facts, material evidence and "flesh and blood" witnesses show up to testify I'll pay more attention.

[QUOTE=Tiny 12;2853692]I collectively watch more MSNBC and CNN than Fox. All three lie to me. MSNBC lies the most, 24 hours a day, every day. However, during the evenings Fox does a pretty

good job of matching them, lie for lie. And no, I don't mind it. It's hilarious! [/QUOTE] Well you're right about one thing, FOXY News is hilarious ...(kkkk!). And it really comes as no surprise that you like being lied to...carry on!

[b]Ray Epps, Target of Conspiracy Theory, Pleads Guilty to Jan. 6 ... [/b]
[URL]https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/20/us/politics/ray-epps-pleads-guilty.html[/URL]

[QUOTE=Tiny 12;2852955]...It's somewhat reminiscent of Ray Epp's situation. Epps was a strong supporter of Trump, and a regional leader of the Oath Keepers. Because of a false conspiracy theory spread by Revolver and Tucker Carlson, that he was some kind of federal agent, he had to sell his business and house in Arizona and go into semi hiding somewhere in the Rockies. Epps says the government is going to soon charge him for encouraging people to peacefully trespass on Capitol grounds on January 6. [b]That may actually help him. Maybe it will cause his potential persecutors to realize he wasnt a government agent. ...[/b][/QUOTE]Now things are getting interesting. Your dude, Ray Epps, just got charged by the DOJ and plead guilty to conspiracy...Yikes!

Looks like you maybe onto something, with his FOXY News lawsuit, I hope it helps...but I'm still not certain about that.

[QUOTE=Spidy;2853126]...If there ever was a case where a more apropos saying of, [b] "He that lies/sleeps with dogs, riseth with fleas"[/b], I'd have to say, Ray Epp's case is a classic example. Good luck to him and his FOXY News lawsuit. ...[/QUOTE]

In Ray Epps, words: [i]" ...I went to the J6 protest, believing FOX News. I believed FOX news...that is until they LIED ABOUT ME"[/i]

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2853709][b]Has the long term Fux Fake News Liar problem gotten worse lately? Yes, much worse. [/b]

But the pattern in any Google Search I have made on the topic puts Fux News clearly in the lead among Fake News Liars, MSNBC far behind in 2nd Place and CNN the least Fake News Liar of those three:

[URL]https://www.politifact.com/article/2015/jan/27/msnbc-fox-cnn-move-needle-our-truth-o-meter-scorec/[/URL] ...[/QUOTE]

FOXY News, being the worst is just so inescapably obvious, it's just dumbfounding how it's viewers can't see it.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2853709][b]Analysis: Fox News has been exposed as a dishonest organization terrified of its own audience. February 17, 2023[/b]

"... the networks senior-most executives and highest-profile hosts chose not to disclose what they believed to be the truth of the election out of fear that that the facts would alienate Fox News audience and throw the highly profitable business into ruin. " [/QUOTE] Yep, that explains it!

Pity a more up-to-date chart/survey isn't available, as I would imagine it would look a lot different with CNN now that the right-wing billionaire, Malone, looks to revamp CNN into a "FOX News" dumpster fire, as staff members fear.

[QUOTE=Spidy;2854350]FOXY News, being the worst is just so inescapably obvious, it's just dumbfounding how it's viewers can't see it.
[/QUOTE]What you and Tooms refuse to accept is that Politifact is biased and, more importantly, MSNBC and NBC were clumped into one category by Politifact. If, say, Fox and the Wall Street Journal or Fox and the Associated Press were combined, the numbers would be different.

[QUOTE=Spidy;2854339]Well you're right about one thing, FOXY News is hilarious ...(kkkk!). And it really comes as no surprise that you like being lied to...carry on!

[/QUOTE]I've watched more MSNBC than Fox News over the last 5 years. You probably never watch Fox so you don't know. Some years ago the Pew Center looked at how much of the networks' programming was dedicated to "opinion" versus "news. " This is from Politico"

"In March, a Pew Research Center study -- yes, Pew -- found that 85 percent of MSNBC's programming is dedicated to "opinion," versus 15 percent that is dedicated to "news. " Fox News dedicated just 55 percent of its programming to "opinion" and 45 percent to "news. " (CNN dedicates 46 percent to "opinion" and 54 percent to "news. ") During the 2012 election, the ratio of unfavorable to favorable treatment in stories on Barack Obama and Mitt Romney on MSNBC "was roughly 23-to-1; the negative-to-positive ratio on Fox News was 8-to-1. ".

"Ok, fine. But MSNBC's opinions are rooted in fact, whereas the Bill O'Reillys and Sean Hannitys willingly peddle misinformation!

But see, that's the thing. Many of MSNBC's opinions aren't rooted in fact. Many of them are rooted in unfounded speculation. Melissa Harris-Perry's recent claim that Obamacare is a racially loaded term conceived of "by a group of wealthy white men who needed a way to put themselves above and apart from a black man" is based on. What? The fact that the term was first used by a woman? The fact that, from Reaganomics to Hillarycare, we've always ascribed names to signature policies and legislation?

And that's just the tip of the iceberg. In a new essay for The National Review, Charles see. W. Cooke explains how MSNBC routinely demonizes the opposition to the point of absurdity...."

[URL]https://www.politico.com/blogs/media/2013/12/is-msnbc-worse-than-fox-news-179175[/URL]

Now, admittedly, as Tooms effectively pointed out, the gap in the level of propaganda on Fox versus MSNBC narrowed somewhat after Fox learned its viewers wanted favorable coverage on Trump. But it's still there. Look at the hosts. On MSNBC, the only one who's halfway objective is Chris Jansing. John Roberts, Neil Cavuto, Bret Baier and Dana Perino fall into the same category as Jansing -- partisan but reasonably objective. And look at the hosts who have moved on in recent years. Chris Wallace is a Democrat. Shepard Smith is probably is probably a gay Democrat. On the MSNBC side, Chuck Todd was reasonably objective but certainly left leaning.

Newsmax and OAN arose because they thought there was a niche to the right of Fox. Nobody's going to find a niche to the left of MSNBC, because practically you can't go farther left. Thankfully, there's no market for a Socialist or Communist channel in the USA.

Of course, this makes no difference to partisan Democrats, because, like Fundamentalist Christians and Muslims, they believe their side has a monopoly on the truth and the rest of the world are infidels. Therefore MSNBC tells the truth and Fox lies.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2854330] But, like all Repubs, he (Romney) thinks he knows better than the least successful Dem in that regard for how to do it.[/QUOTE]Yes, of course he does. If Romney and likeminded politicians and bureaucrats controlled the USA for a long stretch, our economic performance and prosperity would be second to none.

[QUOTE=Tiny12;2854478]Yes, of course he does. If Romney and likeminded politicians and bureaucrats controlled the USA for a long stretch, our economic performance and prosperity would be second to none.[/QUOTE]Sure. And maybe in just 4 years they could get the Unrmployment Rate down to 6%.

As bold and challenging as they and their pro-Repub Bothsider support system in Mainstream Media might think of such a lofty goal, based on what possible evidence and historical precedence have you come to such a ridiculous conclusion?

[QUOTE=Tiny12;2854477]What you and Tooms refuse to accept is that Politifact is biased and, more importantly, MSNBC and NBC were clumped into one category by Politifact. If, say, Fox and the Wall Street Journal or Fox and the Associated Press were combined, the numbers would be different.

I've watched more MSNBC than Fox News over the last 5 years. You probably never watch Fox so you don't know. Some years ago the Pew Center looked at how much of the networks' programming was dedicated to "opinion" versus "news. " This is from Politico"

"In March, a Pew Research Center study -- yes, Pew -- found that 85 percent of MSNBC's programming is dedicated to "opinion," versus 15 percent that is dedicated to "news. " Fox News dedicated just 55 percent of its programming to "opinion" and 45 percent to "news. " (CNN dedicates 46 percent to "opinion" and 54 percent to "news. ") During the 2012 election, the ratio of unfavorable to favorable treatment in stories on Barack Obama and Mitt Romney on MSNBC "was roughly 23-to-1; the negative-to-positive ratio on Fox News was 8-to-1. ".

"Ok, fine. But MSNBC's opinions are rooted in fact, whereas the Bill O'Reillys and Sean Hannitys willingly peddle misinformation!

But see, that's the thing. Many of MSNBC's opinions aren't rooted in fact. Many of them are rooted in unfounded speculation. Melissa Harris-Perry's recent claim that Obamacare is a racially loaded term conceived of "by a group of wealthy white men who needed a way to put themselves above and apart from a black man" is based on. What? The fact that the term was first used by a woman? The fact that, from Reaganomics to Hillarycare, we've always ascribed names to signature policies and legislation?

And that's just the tip of the iceberg. In a new essay for The National Review, Charles see. W. Cooke explains how MSNBC routinely demonizes the opposition to the point of absurdity...."

[URL]https://www.politico.com/blogs/media/2013/12/is-msnbc-worse-than-fox-news-179175[/URL]

Now, admittedly, as Tooms effectively pointed out, the gap in the level of propaganda on Fox versus MSNBC narrowed somewhat after Fox learned its viewers wanted favorable coverage on Trump. But it's still there. Look at the hosts. On MSNBC, the only one who's halfway objective is Chris Jansing. John Roberts, Neil Cavuto, Bret Baier and Dana Perino fall into the same category as Jansing -- partisan but reasonably objective. And look at the hosts who have moved on in recent years. Chris Wallace is a Democrat. Shepard Smith is probably is probably a gay Democrat. On the MSNBC side, Chuck Todd was reasonably objective but certainly left leaning.

Newsmax and OAN arose because they thought there was a niche to the right of Fox. Nobody's going to find a niche to the left of MSNBC, because practically you can't go farther left. Thankfully, there's no market for a Socialist or Communist channel in the USA.

Of course, this makes no difference to partisan Democrats, because, like Fundamentalist Christians and Muslims, they believe their side has a monopoly on the truth and the rest of the world are infidels. Therefore MSNBC tells the truth and Fox lies.[/QUOTE]I repost one of the Politifact links in question:

[URL]https://www.politifact.com/article/2015/jan/27/msnbc-fox-cnn-move-needle-our-truth-o-meter-scorec/[/URL]

If you reread it or, more likely, read it for the first time, I think you will notice for this overview Politifact is only talking about "cable networks". And, more specifically on the issue, it is about what "pundits and hosts" say on the various networks.

It is not about what is asserted as "news" on the various networks.

Although CNN (Cable News Network), Fux News Channel and NBC do have supposedly hard news reporting segments and programs, only Fux News Channel highlights and features the actual word "NEWS" on screen throughout the entirety of its now proven festival of Right Wing lies fully encouraged and promoted by the owner and management of the organization. In other words, EVERYTHING the "pundits and hosts" say is asserted and pawned off as hard news and not mere Right Wing lies and opinion.

MSNBC does not.

The hard news segments on MSNBC necessarily mirror the national news as reported on the hard news segments of its parent, NBC.

There is no national news hour, half hour or even 15 minutes on Fux News Channel's parent company. Therefore, there is no pressure on Fux News Channel to worry about totally contradicting what is reported as hard news on their non existant, say, "Fux Evening News Hour" while their "pundits and hosts" try to pass off their Right Wing lies as "news" 24/7/365 and 366 in Leap Years.

By design from the very beginning of it.

[URL]https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2023/09/21/poll-majority-of-voters-say-joe-biden-committed-crime-with-hunter-biden/[/URL]

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2854536]I repost one of the Politifact links in question:

[URL]https://www.politifact.com/article/2015/jan/27/msnbc-fox-cnn-move-needle-our-truth-o-meter-scorec/[/URL]

If you reread it or, more likely, read it for the first time, I think you will notice for this overview Politifact is only talking about "cable networks". And, more specifically on the issue, it is about what "pundits and hosts" say on the various networks.

It is not about what is asserted as "news" on the various networks.

Although CNN (Cable News Network), Fux News Channel and NBC do have supposedly hard news reporting segments and programs, only Fux News Channel highlights and features the actual word "NEWS" on screen throughout the entirety of its now proven festival of Right Wing lies fully encouraged and promoted by the owner and management of the organization. In other words, EVERYTHING the "pundits and hosts" say is asserted and pawned off as hard news and not mere Right Wing lies and opinion.

MSNBC does not.

The hard news segments on MSNBC necessarily mirror the national news as reported on the hard news segments of its parent, NBC.

There is no national news hour, half hour or even 15 minutes on Fux News Channel's parent company. Therefore, there is no pressure on Fux News Channel to worry about totally contradicting what is reported as hard news on their non existant, say, "Fux Evening News Hour" while their "pundits and hosts" try to pass off their Right Wing lies as "news" 24/7/365 and 366 in Leap Years.

By design from the very beginning of it.[/QUOTE]Fox News, Fair and Balanced!

I must be clairvoyant to know that the Politifact article lumped NBC and MSNBC together without even reading the article! Hmm, I wonder how I can put that superpower to use. There must be a way to make a killing in the market and pick up women.

I do not see where Politifact is just looking at cable networks. In fact, they explicitly say they looked at all five networks, including CBS, although not as carefully as the rest.

MSNBC is a great place to catch up on Trump's wild and crazy goings on, because that's all they cover. That's why I watch it. You had a point, with respect to MSNBC at least, when you said the press devotes a lot more time to Trump than Biden. Trump sells commercioals!

Fox, more so than MSNBC, does present news not supporting a political agenda, more so during the day. Now yes, some is of the tabloid and "feel good" variety, but it's still not political.

Show me a leftist that doesn't hate whitey.

[URL]https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/is-ibram-x-kendi-a-racist/[/URL]

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2854532]Sure. And maybe in just 4 years they could get the Unrmployment Rate down to 6%.

As bold and challenging as they and their pro-Repub Bothsider support system in Mainstream Media might think of such a lofty goal, based on what possible evidence and historical precedence have you come to such a ridiculous conclusion?[/QUOTE]Romney's large team at the equity arm of Bain Capital achieved an average annual return on realized investments of 113% per annum, according to Wikipedia. If he could do that for the average American, who has a net worth of $746,820, that American be worth $63 billion after 15 years!

Romney's showed himself to be an extraordinary executive who produced great economic results, particularly in the private sector but also as a fiscally-responsible governor of Massachusetts who introduced near-universal health care. If our political and bureaucratic class were consistently as able and wise as Romney, then over many years the USA would do very well. If he were a Democrat you'd agree with me.

[QUOTE=Tiny12;2854566]Fox News, Fair and Balanced!

I must be clairvoyant to know that the Politifact article lumped NBC and MSNBC together without even reading the article! Hmm, I wonder how I can put that superpower to use. There must be a way to make a killing in the market and pick up women.

MSNBC is a great place to catch up on Trump's wild and crazy goings on, because that's all they cover. That's why I watch it. You had a point, with respect to MSNBC at least, when you said the press devotes a lot more time to Trump than Biden. Trump sells commercioals!

Fox, more so than MSNBC, does present news not supporting a political agenda, more so during the day. Now yes, some is of the tabloid and "feel good" variety, but it's still not political.[/QUOTE]Wel, you could have scanned it enough to catch the [B]BOLD AND HIGHLIGHTED[/B] names of the networks. Maybe saw there were charts and stuff.

But nowhere did it mention they considered all of those cable networks "cable news networks". NBC was apparently brought into it simply because it would be rather improbable for MSNBC to contradict what had been reported as news on NBC's hard news programming.

And MSNBC repeats that news often, prefaces their "pundit and hosts" programming on it. Fux News Channel does not preface anything that must mirror the hard news reported on their parent company's hard news programming because there isn't any.

Rachel Maddow routinely restates the news and facts as a preface for the discussion that will follow with her guests who are key players on the issue and then always asks them on air if she got it right or did she miss anything important. Virtually every time they assure her she got it right. Then the discussion begins.

Now, if the slam on MSNBC is they don't have the Repub side of the "is it raining outside" issue, the side thar swears it is bone dry outside in the middle of a cloud burst, on their shows as often as they should in order to provide that infamous pro-Repub Fair and Balanced Bothsiderism to the discussion, rest assured Maddow and the others announce, on air, that the Repub Liar or Liars were repeatedly contacted and invited to join in on the discussion and declined or did not reply at all.

Similar to most beloved classic Repub Party icon Trump hiding in a Men's Room stall rather than show up for a Global Economic Summit meeting, a debate with Joe Biden or a debate against other classic Repub Party loons.

[QUOTE=Tiny12;2854570]Romney's large team at the equity arm of Bain Capital achieved an average annual return on realized investments of 113% per annum, according to Wikipedia. If he could do that for the average American, who has a net worth of $746,820, that American be worth $63 billion after 15 years!

Romney's showed himself to be an extraordinary executive who produced great economic results, particularly in the private sector but also as a fiscally-responsible governor of Massachusetts who introduced near-universal health care. If our political and bureaucratic class were consistently as able and wise as Romney, then over many years the USA would do very well. If he were a Democrat you'd agree with me.[/QUOTE]That has absolutely nothing to do with legislating and stewarding a complex national economy to positive results.

Zero.

If anything, leading a company in ways to make its owners and shareholders wealthier is the exact opposite of what it takes to produce Great Recoveries, Great Economic Expansions and Historic Job Gains in a national economy.

[B]Romney as Job Creator Clashes with Bain Record of Job Cuts[/B]

[URL]https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2011-07-20/romney-as-job-creator-clashes-with-bain-record-of-job-cuts[/URL]

Perplexing, isn't it? No, not really.

LOL. Yeah, Trump figured out ways to blow all of his daddy's money and flush all the money anyone was stupid enough to entrust with him down the shitter, stiff all of his creditors, contractors and still managed to buy himself a gold toilet. Surely, he could do the same thing for all those dumb Repub hillbillies sending him major chunks of their entitlement checks. LOL.

[URL]https://amgreatness.com/2023/09/20/the-hidden-agenda-behind-lockdowns/[/URL]