German FKK Clubs - Lounge and chat area

[QUOTE=Hessen Bub; 1361849]Wow, so many experts on prostitution, pimps and trafficking in Germany.

HB[/QUOTE]Come on. You telling us that pimping does not exist? You think it is all black and white in what is and what is not? You saying all the girls work free? You saying that the hookers are only happy to get German dick? Are these girls only happy when they get some fat and old German man to shoot a load of sperm into their mouths so that they can swallow it so that they have something warm to eat in the morning since they no have money for food?

You go to the clubs many times are week and you no see the management of the girls by organised groups? You never had a girl tell you that she owes 25000 euro or 40000 euro in Abstandgeld? You think they earn the euro really for the apartment in Bucharest?

Why do you need to act like this? I no understand it. I thought you would know better than the rest of us what the story is.

[QUOTE=Neutron Flux; 1361551]Also, according to local board administrators, they receive a lot of threats from pimps and "managers" if the reporting is not according to their business plans.

Many girls and "managers" do not like this open reporting about venues for various reasons and that's putting it very mildly. Remember, no matter how nice it looks, it's an underworld environment, gentlemen.[/QUOTE]Neutron Flux,

+1 agreed on what you say here.

We do enter an underworld environment regardless of the legality of the business in the eyes of the law.

I guess some are just protecting themselves.

[QUOTE=Trans Atlantic; 1361562]How do VV verify you we're there earlier during the week?

Is the lineup worth going even with the free admission?[/QUOTE]I will replicate this answer to your question in the Villa Vertigo thread so that the information is there as well.

You put your name down at reception and obtain a receipt signed by the manager that you have been in the club any of Monday to Saturday prior to the Sunday. On the note you get they put your original locker number down for some reason I cannot fathom.

Yes, the line up is decent enough on a Sunday if you are not looking to fuck 10 girls like some machines here do. I can find maybe 1-3 girls out of the line up that I would like carnal relations with for 50€ or more.

[QUOTE=RonnieNorway; 1361684]I am european too but I have yet to meet someone in real life who declares I visit prostitutes "not because of desperation, but because of the diversity of the girls, the skill in various sex acts, and the honesty of the situation".

Anyway I guess diff people go to fkk for diff reasons be it european or asian and I agree with kimino as sometimes the men do expect something diff.[/QUOTE]Hey, if you consider yourself such a loser that the only way you get any woman to have sex with you is to pay her, who am I to disagree with you.

[QUOTE=Doggy Dog;1361894]It does happen, but it is not mainstream. This is Western Europe, not China, Russia or India.[/QUOTE]Interestingly enough in the clubs the vast majority of the hookers are from Eastern Europe. Many of the organised groups are also from the East. That is not Western Europe.

So a girl gets up from her bed in the morning and decides she want to be a prostitute. Is this how you bring up your daughter to think for a career?

Nick the G.

Just to be clear, I was not in any way "blaming" the girls. Absolutely not. As you say, it is our choice how to continue the "relationship" (cash nexus, emotional or whatever). I only made my note as a way of warning in response to the idea that it was only the customers who are working out issues.

And sometimes the emotional issues of the girls can be very complex and their wish for money overpowering, so that a response "I only come here to fuck" provides no obstacle to the girl at all (as you know in the case of my recent tour through the maelstrom.

And yes, I am more than aware that the customers may have emotional issues (even if they are ones of avoiding emotion)

Yakob. Yes, some girls do quite literally wake up one morning and decide. All decisions have a specific time, even if they are the culmination of a process. It's quite rational to do if the alternative is a checkout girl for ever and ever. Btw - HB has many times stressed the existence of the "darker" side of the business

HB - quite right. there are too many opinions masquerading as facts (my comment to Yakob is fact based not opinion LOL)

[QUOTE=Doggy Dog; 1361894]Not sure which girls you have been seeing, but the ones that I have met over the past 10 years certainly do not have pimps. I go to more expensive clubs and from all the girls I got to know a bit better, seeing them outside the club, all of them work entirely for themselves. They decide when they work, chose which men to take or not take as clients, they drive nice cars, they have accompanied me on non paid holidays, they change clubs etc.

Saying that 90% of the girls have a manager / pimp is simply ridiculous. It does happen, but it is not mainstream. This is Western Europe, not China, Russia or India.[/QUOTE]I am talking about FKKs and Sauna Clubs in Germany (and Switzerland, I could say). And what I am talking about is, as it seems someone does not get it, first hand experience of many real years in the clubs, getting friend with girls who I also saw outside the club. A girl seeing you outside the club is not automatically a free girl, sorry for servi g you the truth but better earlier than later.

I agree with Yakob, you simply forget that THIS IS EASTERN EUROPE what you see in this kind of clubs. Then, if you go to different clubs I am happy to know there are places where the situation is different and I will happily listen from you which clubs are these so I can also go there and find out many girls who are happy to be prostitutes.

However, as for the percentages, sorry but I am unfortunately right. If this is not true it should be possible, for example in a club like World, to name more than let's say 20 girls who do not have any kind of pimp. Sorry, I cannot name so many. I can name maybe less than 10 which makes in such a club less than 10% for sure no more. The same the other clubs, but of course you can say whatever you think is right and true, fortunately this forum is still not "pimped" and we are free to say whatever we prefer, with a certain degree of respect.

[QUOTE=Optimist; 1362082]Yakob. Yes, some girls do quite literally wake up one morning and decide. All decisions have a specific time, even if they are the culmination of a process. It's quite rational to do if the alternative is a checkout girl for ever and ever. BTW. HB has many times stressed the existence of the "darker" side of the business.

HB. Quite right. There are too many opinions masquerading as facts (my comment to Yakob is fact based not opinion LOL) [/QUOTE]Optimist, it is true that there are some girls who wake up and decide to be a prostitute. But they are a very small part of this business.

Unfortunately, what I say is also a matter of fact. Many girls over many years have confirmed me that. And I am not talking about girls trying the old scam of squeezing money out of me. I am talking of girls I know since long, who are friends, who see me also putside even if not paid. That's also a matter of fact. This facts has also been confirmed to me. Girls tipically saying "I work here to buy an apartment" that once they quite the job go back to their country but for living with their parents and do not have any apartment. Sorry but it is a matter of fact confirmed also by my last favorite who is now happy back in Romania without apartment but Pimp free after she paid what she had to pay and happy to look for a normal underpaid job there instead continuing working as a free prostitute.

As well as it is amtter of fact when you see as Yakob said the various grouos of girls and pimps in the clubs.

It is a matter of fact that girls well know for being linked to one pimp organization or to an other came to me asking details about other girls without any obvious reason.

It is a matter of fact that girls change clubs out of the blue and not on the basis of their free will, and this is something confirmed many times buy many different girls.

I am sure that HB many times underlined the existence of a dark side of this business, I just made clear some points because generally speaking nobody could ever deny that dark side exists but the problem is that many try to say that such dark part is minimal when it is quite the contrary.

However, I have not to convince anyone, just take the p, easure to give my point. Everybody is free to believe it or not, to make fun of me or not, to provide their first hand experience or just words.

[quote=nick the g; 1361883]all visitors to fkk's, male or female, are "working out" their emotional issues. wrong place? no! it's the best environment that provides excellent experimental conditions to boil up all your emotional needs with high speed, sooner or later, like in a laboratory.

male or female, they cannot escape themselves, no way.

therefore no need to blame others. we need them. we pay to met them. we attract them. they play an important role in our selfchosen "drama". otherwise we simply wouldn't meet them, there, in brothels.

they are there to help us to get a bit more conscious about ourselves.

no other person can be more dangerous to us than our own unconscious parts about our own needs, why we are going to fkk's.

what? just be yourself and say: i come here to fuck and pay for it, that's it. anything beyond that is your will or what you would like to hear in your favorite drama, no need to blame working women for being "dangerous"! for sure you will attract and get what you need, even if you don't like it after some time.[/quote]+1 nick, what you write is true 100% but many do not admit about their unconscious parts and needs as the most relevant reason for going to such places.

[QUOTE=Yakob; 1362069]Interestingly enough in the clubs the vast majority of the hookers are from Eastern Europe. Many of the organised groups are also from the East. That is not Western Europe.

So a girl gets up from her bed in the morning and decides she want to be a prostitute. Is this how you bring up your daughter to think for a career?[/QUOTE]Yakob you are right, but maybe here many people know the truth but do not like to listen (better, read) to it. However, it seems people who goes to clubs prefer the fake illusion of girls working on a free basis than the hard truth. Consciences sometimes play strange tricks.

I can live with my coscience and I know for certain what is going on in the clubs but still keep going. Maybe I am even worse than who denies the evidence, who knows?

Indi. I hope I did not imply that I disagreed with you. And as you say, your views and experiences should be welcomed. I agree that for the majority of the girls there is probably a man who in one way or another is receiving benefit from the girl's work, and in many cases, has some control over their working decisions. The subject is very complex and there are many variations. It is hard for any one of us to have an accurate view of anything but the generalities.

And a point I have made before (along with others). This all needs to be set in a context of general issues of the freedom or otherwise which people in normal jobs do or do not enjoy, and the people who they support financially. To take the clearest case. Is the unemployed husband of a worker in this industry a pimp? If yes, then what is a similar husband of a woamn working in another industry? Etc etc

[QUOTE=Optimist; 1362189]Indi. I hope I did not imply that I disagreed with you. And as you say, your views and experiences should be welcomed. I agree that for the majority of the girls there is probably a man who in one way or another is receiving benefit from the girl's work, and in many cases, has some control over their working decisions. The subject is very complex and there are many variations. It is hard for any one of us to have an accurate view of anything but the generalities.

And a point I have made before (along with others). This all needs to be set in a context of general issues of the freedom or otherwise which people in normal jobs do or do not enjoy, and the people who they support financially. To take the clearest case. Is the unemployed husband of a worker in this industry a pimp? If yes, then what is a similar husband of a woamn working in another industry? Etc etc[/QUOTE]Optimist, I understood well what you mean. I simply quoted your post to link what I wanted to say to the ongoing conversation. I know well from your previous posts that you are sensible to certain issues and you consider girls as human beings and not objects.

My apologies if from my post your position seemed to be of disagreement!

You are right about using a certain degree in order to evaluate where the pimp ends and where reasonable "financial support" starts. Let's say this generally speaking.

Anyhow, it does not change the real situation. Very often unemployed husbands or boyfriends are also a simply excuse. Let's talk about normal people in a civilized country like Germany is, the question is simple: would you stay unemployed for year and in the meanwhile let (or convince) your girlfriend or wife to be a prostitute in order to get to the end of the month?

Would you really prefer 10K euro per month and wife working as a ho' or better 1K euro and one minimal job in two struggling to get to the end of the month?

Unfortunately, in the first category fall very very few, most likely statistically irrelevant numbers. All the other, in my opinion are situation where someone is taking advantage of the girl and also taking her money away. In my country that is called pimp.

Just my two cents, but I am happy to share my thoughts with someone like you, maybe not 100% agreeing with me but open to discussion instead simply denying facts (like others).

[QUOTE=Hessen Bub; 1361849]Wow, so many experts on prostitution, pimps and trafficking in Germany.

HB[/QUOTE]I don't claim to know anything about trafficing other than it exists. My experiences are only based on what girls tell me about avoiding pimps which cannot be considered reliable. I still keep in contact with the retired girl who escaped from H Angels BF. She claimed that he was not exactly a pimp, but it wasn't 100% clear, whether she got to keep all her money. It may be reasonable that she contributed to household costs as well.

[QUOTE=Indi Companion;1362091]However, as for the percentages, sorry but I am unfortunately right. If this is not true it should be possible, for example in a club like World, to name more than let's say 20 girls who do not have any kind of pimp. Sorry, I cannot name so many. I can name maybe less than 10 which makes in such a club less than 10% for sure no more. The same the other clubs, but of course you can say whatever you think is right and true, fortunately this forum is still not "pimped" and we are free to say whatever we prefer, with a certain degree of respect.[/QUOTE]Indi,

Sorry but this is not logic. I cannot name 20 girls of any type let along claim to know what is going on in their life for certain.

I am aware of FKK girls that have no pimp beause I have spent time with them outside the club. I am not aware of which girls definitely have a pimp unless they happened to tell me (and even that would not be 100% reliable).

Then there is the issue of what a pimp really is. I assume we are saying any guy that seeks control over a girl? In that case a husband could be a pimp too. Or is any guy that allows a girl to work FKK, a pimp or not? Maybe its any guy that is living partilally off hr FKK earnings. When girls live off a guy's earnings, we don't call her a pimp. So what exactly is a pimp anyway? I would tend to define it as any guy forcing the girl to work in sex trade and taking her money as well.

However plenty of girls seem to be there out of free choice. Some girls only turn up very occasionally when they need money. No pimps involved.

[QUOTE=Syzygies; 1362224]Indi,

Sorry but this is not logic. I cannot name 20 girls of any type let along claim to know what is going on in their life for certain.

I am aware of FKK girls that have no pimp beause I have spent time with them outside the club. I am not aware of which girls definitely have a pimp unless they happened to tell me (and even that would not be 100% reliable).

Then there is the issue of what a pimp really is. I assume we are saying any guy that seeks control over a girl? In that case a husband could be a pimp too. Or is any guy that allows a girl to work FKK, a pimp or not? Maybe its any guy that is living partilally off hr FKK earnings. When girls live off a guy's earnings, we don't call her a pimp. So what exactly is a pimp anyway? I would tend to define it as any guy forcing the girl to work in sex trade and taking her money as well.

However plenty of girls seem to be there out of free choice. Some girls only turn up very occasionally when they need money. No pimps involved.[/QUOTE]It is logic if you know the girls and do not necessarily believe everything that the girls tell you. Obviously for doing that you should take the effort to scratch a bit under the surface and not only and simply believe everything you are told. I never met a girl who told me first hand I have a pimp and I would like to work anything else. It took time, trust and some brain

However, reading what senior members write on this forum makes me think that we go to different clubs and we know different girls.

It is too easy to move the discussion to "what a pimp really is". We are not discussing about husbands abusing of their weives. Never talked about it, my earlier posts on this topic has been clear, I talked of something organized and of the fact that girls are not for the wast majority working on the basis of their free will but coerced to do that in different ways.

In any event I am happy to see that all what I know on the basis of many years of experience is absolutely false and non existing, fruit of my fantasy and for sure of my misunderstanding of what I have experienced first hand, what I have seen and what I have been told from trustful sources.

Apologies for having disturbed the idyllic disneyland where you all live.

Thanks to Yakob who seems the only one who knows a better and already discovered that Earth is round and not flat.