Bangkok Massage Parlors - Except TULIP and ANNIES!

[QUOTE=Lefeu;1856406]I would like to voice my dissent here, encouraged by Natty's post. I first came to Thailand in 2004, after a long spell of mongering in Rio, Brazil. I enjoyed my visit to Bangkok so much that I stopped going to Rio, and started using the little vacation I had in the US gulag (for worker bees that is) for Thailand.

Since then, I have been coming to Thailand every year, sometimes multiple times per year. I am probably close to a grand total of 20 trips with an average duration of 10 days each.

I don't see the undesirable change that you folks talk about. For me, the women are as lovely now as when I first started coming here. Of course, there were changes but so what. There are changes everywhere all the time. Too many Chinese / Korean mongers? Well, I am trying to adapt to that environment as I don't have a choice. Soon, the Indians will be joining the crowd and it's going to get even worse, as there are 1. 3 billion of them. There will be an awful lot of new mongers from that country. Prices going up? So what, there is inflation and there is the supply / demand effect, better get used to it and start shelling out some more money. Girls are not as GFE as they used to be? I honestly did not experience that. From my experience, girls are as GFE now as they were years ago. Granted, they are being spoiled now by the new mongers, but that usually translates into more money.[/QUOTE]Yes, prices go up. But usually for the same or better quality when it comes to most goods and services. That is not what we are seeing here. More money for poorer service and worse looks? Sorry, you probably would not accept that with any other service; why accept it in P4 P? Respectfully, if you don't notice a difference between what is available now and what was available 10 years ago, then hey, that's the way you see it. We don't all see things in the same way, but to most of us there is light years difference.

[QUOTE=Lefeu;1856406]I don't see the undesirable change that you folks talk about. For me, the women are as lovely now as when I first started coming here.[/QUOTE]I second your opinion.

I am a regular visitor to Thailand for over five years now with two to three visits per year.

Honestly, I cannot say that the quality of the girls and their service has gone down significantly. Sure, not every session is a stellar experience, but there have always been differences between performance, even within the same establishment, even with the same girl. I usually go for LT and sometimes the evening performance was good and the morning session just a "cum quickly I have to go home now" or in the evening she was tired but the next day she took full advantage of my morning wood.

On the average, the quality has remained fairly the same over the years. Prices have gone up a bit indeed but are still very much affordable. I can monger a week in Bangkok for what I will spend in one night in a German FKK.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1856490]Yes, prices go up. But usually for the same or better quality when it comes to most goods and services. That is not what we are seeing here. More money for poorer service and worse looks? Sorry, you probably would not accept that with any other service; why accept it in P4 P? Respectfully, if you don't notice a difference between what is available now and what was available 10 years ago, then hey, that's the way you see it. We don't all see things in the same way, but to most of us there is light years difference.[/QUOTE]I have been coming to Thailand since my early 20's, so its been over 20 years. I can positively tell you there are light years of difference at about every 5-7 year interval. I remember clearly up to about 10-12 years ago, the massage sidelines were full of really gorgeous girls, places like Plaza entertainment, Caesars, Nataree, and even cheap parlors like Evita, Meree, we get confused who to pick. And these days majority of girls offer deep kiss, and there was no such thing as cover BJ, unless customer request it. I remember from my diary 15 years ago, the sideline at Plaza cost 1500, and similar price at Ratchada parlors, at these time, if you tip girls 200, you probably can get a bare back. The overall attitude was great up until about 7-10 years ago. That's when all these high end venues started to appear like gentlemen lounges, high end karaoke bars, hostess bars, high end massage parlors, all these expensive places spread like wild fire, and the girls suddenly had so many choices to work and they got spread out. Then Thai economy got better, more and more rich men take away these cute ones as gik or mia noi (lovers), more and more cuties disappear from the market, that's when these mega parlors started to import their talents from the bordering regions, especially Tai Yai from the Chiang Rai / Myanmar areas.

Then comes the mass tourism of Chinese, Koreans, Russians, ect. More and more customers are competing for the small remaining young / cute workforce, that's when this group price sky rocketed in this 10 years. Up to around 10 years ago, in the Rainbows in Nana, you were surrounded by hundred of very nice slender all naked bodies for inspection before pay bar, not many tatoos, not many fake tits or nose like today, price standard 1000ST, bar fine 500. All girls were friendly and gave extensive services, I still had lots of good memories from Nana over 10 years ago, now I don't even bar fine there anymore, ST 2000-2500 plus 600 bar fine, LDs, ST hotel, because most of them too lazy even to ride a 10 min taxi, almost all with some plastic surgeries, it's just not even fun anymore.

The only place that I feel easy is these oil joints, because I can still get some nice services, but you have to really compromise the appearance, majority are mothers, and probably late 20's. Bangkok pay scene has changed tremendously if you compare now and then 10+ years ago. For me in recent years, you just have to make more and more compromise and lower and lower your previous standard and expectation.

Someone mentioned Jakarta, it is still the best value in probably in the world, if you know these local massage parlors, and pay the local prices 200 k-300 k, still many young cuties can be found in these local joints all over Jakarta and they really perform well even at these low end prices. China's Changping was another really super value until 2 years ago when the authority shut down all the barber shops and saunas, it is pretty much like a ghost town now. Yangon and Vientaine no longer a value performance places either. I agree Jakarta is probably the last frontier in Asia or probably the world for value / performance pay play.

[QUOTE=Wolvenvacht;1856500]I second your opinion.

I am a regular visitor to Thailand for over five years now with two to three visits per year.

Honestly, I cannot say that the quality of the girls and their service has gone down significantly. Sure, not every session is a stellar experience, but there have always been differences between performance, even within the same establishment, even with the same girl. I usually go for LT and sometimes the evening performance was good and the morning session just a "cum quickly I have to go home now" or in the evening she was tired but the next day she took full advantage of my morning wood.

On the average, the quality has remained fairly the same over the years. Prices have gone up a bit indeed but are still very much affordable. I can monger a week in Bangkok for what I will spend in one night in a German FKK.[/QUOTE]Yep, I would say that 5 years ago things were already well on the downward slide. So you really did not get to see it in it's heyday. Truth be told things started slipping soon after the '06 coup and accelerated at quite a pace when the economy boomed and it's been well downhill on all fronts since the floods in '11. Personally I found myself having a bit of a hard time finding good gals along about '07. Before then each and every night out was not a question of would I find something, but a question of how will I decide who to take.

[QUOTE=ShinShin;1856542]I have been coming to Thailand since my early 20's, so its been over 20 years. I can positively tell you there are light years of difference at about every 5-7 year interval. I remember clearly up to about 10-12 years ago, the massage sidelines were full of really gorgeous girls, places like Plaza entertainment, Caesars, Nataree, and even cheap parlors like Evita, Meree, we get confused who to pick. And these days majority of girls offer deep kiss, and there was no such thing as cover BJ, unless customer request it. I remember from my diary 15 years ago, the sideline at Plaza cost 1500, and similar price at Ratchada parlors, at these time, if you tip girls 200, you probably can get a bare back. The overall attitude was great up until about 7-10 years ago. That's when all these high end venues started to appear like gentlemen lounges, high end karaoke bars, hostess bars, high end massage parlors, all these expensive places spread like wild fire, and the girls suddenly had so many choices to work and they got spread out. Then Thai economy got better, more and more rich men take away these cute ones as gik or mia noi (lovers), more and more cuties disappear from the market, that's when these mega parlors started to import their talents from the bordering regions, especially Tai Yai from the Chiang Rai / Myanmar areas.

Then comes the mass tourism of Chinese, Koreans, Russians, ect. More and more customers are competing for the small remaining young / cute workforce, that's when this group price sky rocketed in this 10 years. Up to around 10 years ago, in the Rainbows in Nana, you were surrounded by hundred of very nice slender all naked bodies for inspection before pay bar, not many tatoos, not many fake tits or nose like today, price standard 1000ST, bar fine 500. All girls were friendly and gave extensive services, I still had lots of good memories from Nana over 10 years ago, now I don't even bar fine there anymore, ST 2000-2500 plus 600 bar fine, LDs, ST hotel, because most of them too lazy even to ride a 10 min taxi, almost all with some plastic surgeries, it's just not even fun anymore.

The only place that I feel easy is these oil joints, because I can still get some nice services, but you have to really compromise the appearance, majority are mothers, and probably late 20's. Bangkok pay scene has changed tremendously if you compare now and then 10+ years ago. For me in recent years, you just have to make more and more compromise and lower and lower your previous standard and expectation.

Someone mentioned Jakarta, it is still the best value in probably in the world, if you know these local massage parlors, and pay the local prices 200 k-300 k, still many young cuties can be found in these local joints all over Jakarta and they really perform well even at these low end prices. China's Changping was another really super value until 2 years ago when the authority shut down all the barber shops and saunas, it is pretty much like a ghost town now. Yangon and Vientaine no longer a value performance places either. I agree Jakarta is probably the last frontier in Asia or probably the world for value / performance pay play.[/QUOTE]Can't agree with you more. Everything you have stated is spot on. It's really amazing when you hear from dudes who have not been here in a decade. Most are shocked at the changes in the P4 P scene. And if you want a real stunner in Jakarta that performs, it's still going to cost you less than 100 USD.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1856490]Yes, prices go up. But usually for the same or better quality when it comes to most goods and services. That is not what we are seeing here. More money for poorer service and worse looks? Sorry, you probably would not accept that with any other service; why accept it in P4 P? Respectfully, if you don't notice a difference between what is available now and what was available 10 years ago, then hey, that's the way you see it. We don't all see things in the same way, but to most of us there is light years difference.[/QUOTE]Goat, I totally agree with you. Every years is always more difficult to find a good service. Nowadays the girls seems more and more lazy to work with a bad attitude. I can see this in Bangkok and Pattaya.

[QUOTE=Lefeu;1856187]I am currently in Bangkok for a few days. I visited Mango massage yesterday with 2 wingmen, around 5 pm. There were about 6 girls available. I ended picking last, and my wingmen seemed to have picked the best 2 among the lot. I was not in the mood to go somewhere else and decided to try my luck with a chick who had a nice smile. As she got up, I realized that she was GND in look, and carried some extra pounds around the waist.

Back in the room, she went through her normal routine, and after the first shot was completed, she proceeded to give me a massage. That's when I got my surprise. That girl was so erotic and so sensual, that for the next hour or so, we did not speak a word to each other, yet we were so much in synch. I have not had that experience in a long time.

The next day I returned, and being a variety man, I went to Addict and hoping I would not regret it. Addict had a big lineup of close to 20+ chicks. I picked first this time but I blew it. I picked a young chick, GND cute, slim body with nice curves. But back in the room, I found out that she was relatively new. She told me she was 22, had a baby, and has been on the job for 3 months. But as she undressed, I was pleased to admire her lovely body. And that was the extent of the fun.

Then she started wasting time in the shower, trying to get me off via HJ. She kept complaining about my size, hoping that I would opt for a HJ. Eventually, she settled down and proceeded to cap me and rode me RCG (reverse cow girl). After a while, she felt more comfortable, then I switched to mish. I have to say that I enjoyed hearing her make those funny noises, like in Japanese porn. After a while we switched to doggie, and I unloaded there. After that, she gave me a lackluster massage, as she spent half the time looking at herself in the mirror.

Did I regret not repeating with my Mango chick? Absolutely. But, I have not had a young pussy in a while, so I really enjoyed banging this hottie. I felt my money was well spent. I could not care less about the lousy massage, and her wasting time.[/QUOTE]Hey. Whats the name of the mango chick? Is she on the website?

[QUOTE=ShinShin;1856542]Someone mentioned Jakarta, it is still the best value in probably in the world, if you know these local massage parlors, and pay the local prices 200 k-300 k, still many young cuties can be found in these local joints all over Jakarta and they really perform well even at these low end prices. China's Changping was another really super value until 2 years ago when the authority shut down all the barber shops and saunas, it is pretty much like a ghost town now. Yangon and Vientaine no longer a value performance places either. I agree Jakarta is probably the last frontier in Asia or probably the world for value / performance pay play.[/QUOTE]One wonderful thing about Jakarta and China is that almost none of the working girls have kids. Why? Because the locals won't take them if they do. Most have wives at home with baby drag on their bodies, so when they go out for P4 P the last thing they want to see is a gal who already has a kid. Sure wish it was that way in LOS. These days finding a looker who performs without kids is a very difficult task.

EihTooms ' If ever a case can be made for a timely and appropriate funeral eulogy for the P4P industry of Thailand, these horror stories about the kind of astonishingly abysmal "value for money" one gets at some of the otherwise all too often highly touted Ratchada soapies would be it. I have no idea what guys are thinking to waste so much time, money, emotion and energy encouraging such worthless service with their hard earned money. Seems like the spectacularly self-defeating and counterproductive aspect of it has well and surely dawned on you too. Thanks for the detailed and honest report. ' Excellent response to a report about a frustrating experience at Nataree that could apply to many other places, especially in Bangkok.

Natty Bumpo in his report "Day 20: March 14 "Nn" at Nataree - 4000 bt great session" attempts to defend Nataree but unwittingly, somehow does the opposite. 4000 baht for one round? He describes in great detail a very average experience that personally I would be unsatisfied with and wouldn't wish to repeat for that kind of money.

I work daily with highly educated Thai people with expensive post-graduate qualifications. They work long hours in demanding jobs. 4000 baht is still a great deal of money here. Whether you visit this country 3 times a year or have racked up 20 trips, comparing the prices of other countries simply isn't valid. Visitors often spend large amounts of money in attempt to stand out from the crowd thinking it'll engender loyalty, exclusivity or will simply impress the recipient and encourage a greater performance level when they eventually return. It does none of these things and can often be counterproductive to both the generous benefactor and the wider scene. Being increasingly generous to those who have chosen an easy route who then provide a minimal or half completed job would not be acceptable in any other industry. Reading some of the reports here, I sometimes think that many lose sight of who is the customer and who is the provider. Demanding a certain service level does not mean one has to make the whole experience into a cold business like exchange. To read comments saying that others should accept the rapidly increasing prices again bears no relation to reality here. If my own and others salary here had gone up at a % matching the increase of P4P prices, I'the be very happy, especially if my performance had been allowed to slip without any comment from the company I work for and my attitude to the job had deteriorated to a point where I decided when and how much work I'the do at any time I chose. Yet this is what people who live have almost universally experienced being on the receiving end of.

When I go for a P4P session, I would like to think that a fairly consistent minimal level service would be rightfully expected (as in other cities / countries) given the prices demanded. For the record, I go into any encounter well dressed, speaking as much Thai as I can while listening to more, and keep things light even when they don't go so well. Added to that, things like anal and CIM don't interest me, so you'the think I'the be seen as an easy customer. Nowadays, when I go for a session, which should be entertaining and enjoyable, I feel increasingly anxious. I'm often wondering whether I'll come out more frustrated than when I went in. At places like Nataree (which I stopped going to years ago) and Addict (which I'm about to stop), my success rate of what I'the classify as a good experience is / was about 50%. It should be much higher but it seems there is no performance standard imposed at these and other similar places at all. Many customers of a range of nationalities seem happy to receive a decreasing level of service, so that then becomes the norm.

The scene here becomes progressively less enjoyable; some nearby countries are emerging while others retain a consistent level of service. Just look at Phnom Penh to see how quickly a scene can be ruined and diminished by over paying punters and other factors. Think it couldn't happen here? Political and social changes happening or that are about to happen could hasten it, by then there may not be much anyway that's worth keeping at the present rate of decline.

[QUOTE=ShinShin;1856542]I have been coming to Thailand since my early 20's, so its been over 20 years. I can positively tell you there are light years of difference at about every 5-7 year interval. I remember clearly up to about 10-12 years ago, the massage sidelines were full of really gorgeous girls, places like Plaza entertainment, Caesars, Nataree, and even cheap parlors like Evita, Meree, we get confused who to pick. And these days majority of girls offer deep kiss, and there was no such thing as cover BJ, unless customer request it. I remember from my diary 15 years ago, the sideline at Plaza cost 1500, and similar price at Ratchada parlors, at these time, if you tip girls 200, you probably can get a bare back. The overall attitude was great up until about 7-10 years ago.

(Major SNIP)[/QUOTE]Thank you for that fantastic overview, ShinShin. Your observations, time and experience certainly confirms that when you say a session was bad, as you did in your most recent Nataree girl review, that means just about any clear headed, experienced punter would agree with you that it was BAD. LOL. There are a few other posters I would say that about as well. Goatscrot, for example. A couple of others, well, let's be kind and just say what I read does not in any way jive with my or any of my friends and acquaintance's experience. But that doesn't mean I don't enjoy their unqualified enthusiasm.

Nataree is probably still the best parlor that offers young workers these days. Catherine is another one that always has quite a few young and okay looking ones all these years, but I feel the level at Catherine is steadily getting bad, and location is hard to get to. I really like Nataree for 10+ years ago, but in the beginning when I started to come BKK, actually my favorite was Plaza, the 6th floor was packed with young beauties for many years.

Nataree's service was very good and consistent 10+ years ago, then become a little inconsistent through the decade, then nowadays a little tricky because hard to expect, the good and the bad fluctuate so much, but this reflect the whole BKK pay sex industries, not just Nataree. In my recent years experiences, I don't recommend the 4-5 K young fresh category, this is the trickiest category, because hard to expect what happen in the room, and actually this class gets a lot of traffic, these girls can do more rounds than the regular 2. 3, 2. 6 k class, these class of girls are teenagers and they have the mood swing, I recommend if you are on short stay and want a more reliable service, to avoid disappointment then go with the ordinary 2. 3 or 2. 6 or the 2 k inside the tank which I find the most reliable with their service but may not be too young and tight.

BKK scene is changing, and I have adapt and have been forced to compromise with what we have now in the market, Nataree is no longer the old paradise 10+ years ago, it's now tilted to the seller's market, but it is still one of the biggest young meat markets there is in BKK. I will check Catherine next trip to BKK in a few days for a transit flight to Myanmar.

[QUOTE=ShinShin;1856980]Nataree is probably still the best parlor that offers young workers these days. Catherine is another one that always has quite a few young and okay looking ones all these years, but I feel the level at Catherine is steadily getting bad, and location is hard to get to. I really like Nataree for 10+ years ago, but in the beginning when I started to come BKK, actually my favorite was Plaza, the 6th floor was packed with young beauties for many years.

Nataree's service was very good and consistent 10+ years ago, then become a little inconsistent through the decade, then nowadays a little tricky because hard to expect, the good and the bad fluctuate so much, but this reflect the whole BKK pay sex industries, not just Nataree. In my recent years experiences, I don't recommend the 4-5 K young fresh category, this is the trickiest category, because hard to expect what happen in the room, and actually this class gets a lot of traffic, these girls can do more rounds than the regular 2. 3, 2. 6 k class, these class of girls are teenagers and they have the mood swing, I recommend if you are on short stay and want a more reliable service, to avoid disappointment then go with the ordinary 2. 3 or 2. 6 or the 2 k inside the tank which I find the most reliable with their service but may not be too young and tight.

BKK scene is changing, and I have adapt and have been forced to compromise with what we have now in the market, Nataree is no longer the old paradise 10+ years ago, it's now tilted to the seller's market, but it is still one of the biggest young meat markets there is in BKK. I will check Catherine next trip to BKK in a few days for a transit flight to Myanmar.[/QUOTE]I'd like to point out that not every guy likes young women. Some guys, like myself, prefer women in their 30's and 40's.

One study found that this kind of preference depends on the age of your parents, when you were born. If you were born to older parents, then you will like older women.

[URL]http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/05/17-facts-about-human-sexual-attraction_n_3817941.html[/URL]

[URL]http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1690969/[/URL]

But you are right that there are fewer young women in Thailand's sex industry now than before. This is because the whole population of Thailand has been aging over the years. The fertility rate in Thailand has dropped below the replacement level some time ago. It's 1.5 children per woman now, and 2.1 is what you need to maintain the population. The median age of people in Thailand has gone from 19.7 years in 1980 to 38.0 years in 2015, and it's expected to be 40.5 years in 2020.

[URL]http://www.statista.com/statistics/331867/average-age-of-the-population-in-thailand/[/URL]

[URL]http://www.indexmundi.com/g/g.aspx?c=th&v=31[/URL]

[QUOTE=ShinShin;1856980]Nataree is probably still the best parlor that offers young workers these days. Catherine is another one that always has quite a few young and okay looking ones all these years, but I feel the level at Catherine is steadily getting bad, and location is hard to get to. I really like Nataree for 10+ years ago, but in the beginning when I started to come BKK, actually my favorite was Plaza, the 6th floor was packed with young beauties for many years.

Nataree's service was very good and consistent 10+ years ago, then become a little inconsistent through the decade, then nowadays a little tricky because hard to expect, the good and the bad fluctuate so much, but this reflect the whole BKK pay sex industries, not just Nataree. In my recent years experiences, I don't recommend the 4-5 K young fresh category, this is the trickiest category, because hard to expect what happen in the room, and actually this class gets a lot of traffic, these girls can do more rounds than the regular 2. 3, 2. 6 k class, these class of girls are teenagers and they have the mood swing, I recommend if you are on short stay and want a more reliable service, to avoid disappointment then go with the ordinary 2. 3 or 2. 6 or the 2 k inside the tank which I find the most reliable with their service but may not be too young and tight.

BKK scene is changing, and I have adapt and have been forced to compromise with what we have now in the market, Nataree is no longer the old paradise 10+ years ago, it's now tilted to the seller's market, but it is still one of the biggest young meat markets there is in BKK. I will check Catherine next trip to BKK in a few days for a transit flight to Myanmar.[/QUOTE]This is also my opinion, that's why I go mostly to beerbars such as in Soi 7; nice, smiling, still well-bodied and service complete (BBBJ and even CIM usually "self-evident", in contrast to the soapies). I am always astonished to see so few contributions about beerbars in BKK.

[QUOTE=ShinShin;1856980]Nataree is probably still the best parlor that offers young workers these days. Catherine is another one that always has quite a few young and okay looking ones all these years, but I feel the level at Catherine is steadily getting bad, and location is hard to get to. I really like Nataree for 10+ years ago, but in the beginning when I started to come BKK, actually my favorite was Plaza, the 6th floor was packed with young beauties for many years.

Nataree's service was very good and consistent 10+ years ago, then become a little inconsistent through the decade, then nowadays a little tricky because hard to expect, the good and the bad fluctuate so much, but this reflect the whole BKK pay sex industries, not just Nataree. In my recent years experiences, I don't recommend the 4-5 K young fresh category, this is the trickiest category, because hard to expect what happen in the room, and actually this class gets a lot of traffic, these girls can do more rounds than the regular 2. 3, 2. 6 k class, these class of girls are teenagers and they have the mood swing, I recommend if you are on short stay and want a more reliable service, to avoid disappointment then go with the ordinary 2. 3 or 2. 6 or the 2 k inside the tank which I find the most reliable with their service but may not be too young and tight.

BKK scene is changing, and I have adapt and have been forced to compromise with what we have now in the market, Nataree is no longer the old paradise 10+ years ago, it's now tilted to the seller's market, but it is still one of the biggest young meat markets there is in BKK. I will check Catherine next trip to BKK in a few days for a transit flight to Myanmar.[/QUOTE]I used to love Nataree too but the service now is more; condom BJ, No kissing, no DATY which means poor service for me. There are exceptions but no way am I going to keep going back to find the right one when I can get it cheaper with more consistent service from many other places.

[QUOTE=ShinShin;1856542]Someone mentioned Jakarta, it is still the best value in probably in the world, if you know these local massage parlors, and pay the local prices 200 k-300 k, still many young cuties can be found in these local joints all over Jakarta and they really perform well even at these low end prices. [/QUOTE]Great value for the looks indeed, but I wouldn't say service is much to write home about (though surely more consistent than Nataree). What bothers me about those venues is that they're all basically mafia-run, and you can shag a girl, but there's virtually no way you could take her out or arrange a more relaxed session in a different setting.

What used to be so amazing about Thailand in its heyday is that you could get whatever you wished -- one shot, a few hours, a week, a month, all the way up to marriage. Sure, you were just another customer, but if you want to be more, if nothing else in your own mind, most would have gladly indulged you, and it would cost you basically only as much as you were willing to spend. Even if you don't do it, having the options was thrilling. Working girls elsewhere (except perhaps the Philippines) simply don't offer that these days.

Jakarta, from what I discovered (unfortunately late, only in 2014), is good value, but it's traditional single-defined-transaction prostitution, not the open-ended kind which used to be prevalent in Thailand.