FKK Golden Gate / old Villa Vertigo in Grefrath NRW

Hey Gents,

I would like to think that the VV management's treatment of my friends has nothing to do with them being foreigners. Truth is, I have rarely seen this happen in all of my years of clubbing in Germany.

I DO however wonder about why Mr. Stephan decided to evict my friends. I cannot help but suspect that he saw an opportunity to free up a few lockers and to cash in on a few more entrance fees. If this is so, then I am truly appalled. My friends are not trouble makers and they have been good, respected and welcome guests at clubs throughout Germany with never a complaint or problem. Also I have NEVER seen either one of them the least bit looped. Where I come from questioning a man's word can have serious consequences so I do so with serious reservations, but I cannot help but do so in this case. Mr. Stephan's words regarding Fusco being drunk simply strike me as a falsehood made in an effort to cover his inexcusable behavior and business practices.

As I have stated earlier, some people in this land (Germany) can be rather "bockig" and come Hell or high water will never admit to a mistake. The way my friends described Mr. Stephan's attitude and reactions, I could have bet the entire farm that he would not and probably never will understand or accept that his actions were incorrect. Some of these cats over here a have rather hard heads.

Whether one agrees or disagrees with the door policy at GT, the two situations are very different. The VV managemnet accepted my friend's money and welcomed them into their club where they were very poorly treated, and quite possibly swindled out of their entrance fees.

Big30, By all means continue to visit VV and do so with my best wishes. What has transpired at the place clearly does not bother the likes of you and I certainly accept that. I do think that your assessment of the events and how they were presented here by a number of ISGers is flawed, but that is of course your right.

Along with Henio, I do not and have not called for a boycott of the place, but the events that have transpired have made my decision as to pay the place a visit on any of my numerous trips to the NRW area and dutch boarder clear. None of the other clubs in that area 1) take my picture without permission, 2) Yell at me if I have a comment or complaint.

I think back to a problem that I had at Living Room earlier this year. I politely pointed out the problem and it was dealt with respectfully, in my favor and I was given both a smile, free entry and a "best wishes and hope to see you again soon" from the managemnet. Would that Mr. Stephan could have extend the same courtesy to my friends, who no doubt would have become VERY good customers!

Cheers,

Dedalus

For the record:

Neither Fusco nor I think it has anything to do with us being foreigners. We actually could pass for a German any day except that my accent and lack of vocabulary would probably give us away. The club is frequented by Dutch and French visitors, even more so than Germans (like many other of the NRW Golden Triangle clubs). Only Stephan knows the real reason why he acted in the way he did. I have not heard any bad stories other than ours of his general behaviour so I must assume we cought him at a very bad moment of his life or something.

We are pretty laid back, easy going and non-confrontial guys, we do not need our money back, I get no pleasure out of any kind of boycott, and I could not care less if the manager apologises or not, what is done is done and my picture is resting on Stephans hard drive and on the photographers as well. The only thing I can do is hope that they take good care of their equipment.

My only agenda is to give information on what really happened since the owner gave some misinformation to this board on the events, and I think the discussion following (with Cynical stating that there are regular photoshoots) is of great importance to this community and I am glad that he replied.

Btw: before leaving the club, I did have a great session with Oksana from Latvia and a decent one with Tania from Germany (she was a bit reserved). I believe Oksana is a regular at YY and was only there for the party. Don't know about Tatiana.

Being non german myself and having taken arabs, russians and Negroes with me to the Villa - both before and after becoming the "resident blog photographer" - I can't believe that race or nationality had anything to do with any guests getting evicted from VV.

From what I heard the eviction was because of the loud discussion. And you can be pretty sure that any guest discussing loudly would get evicted from Artemis, Oase World or any other club.

Let's get this over with, the discussion is turning a bit stale.

Regarding photography, which I see here as a sensitive subject - also to myself - I will take all input I saw here to management to come up with standards that will make everyone comfortable.

Expect to hear from me or Stephan soon.

Although I was not present during the photo incident, I have no doubt who's story to believe. I know the persons involved, and their character is unimpeachable. Plus, none of the undisputed facts justify the behavior of management. Privacy is something that I will never comprise. Respect is the second thing. This is one club I will not visit in the future.

[QUOTE=Cynical]Regarding photography, which I see here as a sensitive subject - also to myself - I will take all input I saw here to management to come up with standards that will make everyone comfortable.

Expect to hear from me or Stephan soon.[/QUOTE]

Cynical,

I suggest you or Stephan spring for a membership so that you or Stephan can discuss the incident privately with the agreived parties.

I think it might be easier to resolve this matter if it is not discussed in a public forum with everyone who was not involved weighing in on every word said.

Cheers,
Radler

[QUOTE=Radler]Cynical,

I suggest you or Stephan spring for a membership so that you or Stephan can discuss the incident privately with the agreived parties.

I think it might be easier to resolve this matter if it is not discussed in a public forum with everyone who was not involved weighing in on every word said.

Cheers,
Radler[/QUOTE]I was not an "agreived party", but I am certainly an interested one. It's about whether I can consider going to this club or not in future.

Sorry to weigh in but I don't see what management did that was blatantly wrong, although it was an unfortunate series of events. They were just trying to get pics showing men present, having a good time. I can understand that. Yes, they should have had a notification upon entry so it wouldn't be creepy, and better, the photographer should have asked before he took pictures assuring everyone he was going to blur faces of the ones he keeps then destroy the rest. It wasn't handled well, but in and of itself not to sinister. On one level though, it is a little revealing that we love to see pics of the girls posted but find the thought of our pics being taken so offensive. I'm just making an observation, not a judgment. Undoubtedly, I would not want to see an identifiable picture of myself at a club show up on the internet.

As far as asking people to leave, it sounds rude but I doubt it was to make room for new customers because I doubt it was that full. Maybe the owner made a bad decision, maybe the guests were a little too drunk, who knows. I doubt it is the intention or habit of the club to be mean and unfair. Perhaps the owner was having a bad day, it happens. I don't like the idea of putting customers you think are drunk in a car to drive though. They would have to be pretty belligerent for me to do that. I'm sure in retrospect it should have been handled more thoughtfully.

If Stephen is listening perhaps the best way to reconcile this is to offer all of us who have commented on the subject and want to return a free entrance? :)

[QUOTE=Chicafan]Sorry to weigh in but I don't see what management did that was blatantly wrong, although it was an unfortunate series of events.
[/QUOTE] Trust me, you sure would see it if it had happened to you

[QUOTE=Chicafan]
As far as asking people to leave, it sounds rude but I doubt it was to make room for new customers because I doubt it was that full.
[/QUOTE] The club was full, even Stephan would admit to that. There were no lockers available and they were asking guests to share lockers. As to Stephans thinking process about throwing us out, it is all speculation and Stephan is the only one who really knows.

[QUOTE=Chicafan]
Maybe the owner made a bad decision, maybe the guests were a little too drunk, who knows.
[/QUOTE]I know. I do not drink in clubs more than an occasional one beer. You may (or may not) know that as well since we have actually met a couple of times at GT, but you probably do not recognise my nick here :-). Here is a hint "you trying to have session with Chanel, me trying to translate for you without much success" :-)))

[QUOTE=Henio]Trust me, you sure would see it if it had happened to you

The club was full, even Stephan would admit to that. There were no lockers available and they were asking guests to share lockers. As to Stephans thinking process about throwing us out, it is all speculation and Stephan is the only one who really knows.
[/QUOTE]

Well then, if you are who I think you are it is hard to imagine you were belligerent enough to be asked to leave, and if the place was full....

Guten Tag Herr Cynical,

[QUOTE=Cynical]Regarding photography, which I see here as a sensitive subject - also to myself - I will take all input I saw here to management to come up with standards that will make everyone comfortable.

Expect to hear from me or Stephan soon.[/QUOTE]

Thanks Cynical. I think some here would appreciate the normalisation of a photography policy at VV. We look forward to the reply.

I too wish to see VV succeed as I do like the facilities and the location is not too bad. Grefrath is a cute town and I have wandered its streets waiting for the VV club to open.

The gardens are extensive and I do like the pool with the decking all around. I can see me lazing away on a lounger for many visits to come in the future seeing the cat walk of lovelies passing by causing a stir under my red robe.

The rooms are really nicely decorated and feel very clean.

I can live with the small locker room, the modest toliet sizes and people being able to see me towelling off as I bend over exposing my hairy arse through the opaque door that leads out into the bar area.

I do wish the porn selection improves as the current showings has not been the sort where I would happily get my todger out and have a nice quiet wank to help me rest in between sessions while sitting in the kino. Can you also suggest this to Stephan? At least take the lesbian movies off the DVD player.

Also I must thank you again for translating for me when I last saw you. My Deutsch is improving slowly.

Cheers,

Londonbasketase

Guten tag all,

I will be at the Villa enjoying myself - and not making photos in public areas :-) - next week tuesday and wednesday.

Any of you are invited to come, I'm looking forward to meeting you guys.

I was there last week and have to say the line-up has dramatically improved - see the blog, I had four of the best sessions I ever had in a club. This is indeed the only photography gig I have every month where I end up spending more money than I earn :-)

Cheers,

Cynical

[QUOTE=Londonbasketcase]Guten Tag Herr Cynical,



Thanks Cynical. I think some here would appreciate the normalisation of a photography policy at VV. We look forward to the reply.

I too wish to see VV succeed as I do like the facilities and the location is not too bad. Grefrath is a cute town and I have wandered its streets waiting for the VV club to open.

The gardens are extensive and I do like the pool with the decking all around. I can see me lazing away on a lounger for many visits to come in the future seeing the cat walk of lovelies passing by causing a stir under my red robe.

The rooms are really nicely decorated and feel very clean.

I can live with the small locker room, the modest toliet sizes and people being able to see me towelling off as I bend over exposing my hairy arse through the opaque door that leads out into the bar area.

I do wish the porn selection improves as the current showings has not been the sort where I would happily get my todger out and have a nice quiet wank to help me rest in between sessions while sitting in the kino. Can you also suggest this to Stephan? At least take the lesbian movies off the DVD player.

Also I must thank you again for translating for me when I last saw you. My Deutsch is improving slowly.

Cheers,

Londonbasketase[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Toscana]I was not an "agreived party", but I am certainly an interested one. It's about whether I can consider going to this club or not in future.[/QUOTE]

I suspect by the comment that you've already made up your mind on that point.

I suggested it in the interest of giving Stephan an opportunity to make the situation right with Henio and Fusco. That is more likely to happen in a private conversation. If it were to occur, I'm sure Henio and/or Fusco would report back to the forum.

It's a question on whether you are interested in seeing the situation resolved to Henio and Fusco's satisfaction or whether you want the controversy to drag on.

Cheers,
Radler

[QUOTE=Radler]I suggested it in the interest of giving Stephan an opportunity to make the situation right with Henio and Fusco. That is more likely to happen in a private conversation. If it were to occur, I'm sure Henio and/or Fusco would report back to the forum.[/QUOTE]Fair point. It might make it easier for him to change things and still save face.

On the basis of what I have heard, and from whom, yes, I have made my decision. That's my right. But as I stated already (#93), I am happy to reconsider on hearing that the photography policy has been revised satisfactorily. My stance on this issue applies to any club anywhere of course.

I visited VV for the first time today. I got there around 11:30 this morning. There were about 20-25 girls present during the time I was there. A couple were very pretty. Most were average or better. I ended up with Lorena from Romania. She's 19, about 5'6", very light skin, and brunette. Lorena said she's a student and has been at VV for one week. I doubt she will be there long. She doesn't seem the type to stay long at an FKK club. She speaks very good English, fun personality, and smiled and laughed a lot. I spent an hour with her and it was like spending an hour with an old college girlfriend. The hour consisted of 2 shots with one of them CIM. At the end of the hour, she seemed almost embarrassed when she asked me for the €100. She explained the normal price was €75 for the hour but the CIM was an extra €25. It was refreshing to see an attitude like hers after my experience at Golden Time. While I was paying her, I saw another girl take a twenty to the front desk to get change for her customer (another refreshing site after my Golden Time experience). I don't know the name of the girl who was getting the change but I'm sure the regulars will know her. She's tall, red hair, incredible eyes, beautiful smile, and I remember seeing her at PHG about a year ago.