Bangkok Massage Parlors - Except TULIP and ANNIES!

[QUOTE=*****man;1884336].... She was very sweet but didn't want me to finger her and it took a while and a lot of lube to get my dick into her arse. She was ultra tight so it didn't take long for me to unload. I'll definitely be back as I saw another similar girl in the line-up....[/QUOTE]Your finger is a lot smaller than your cock. It doesn't make sense that she would agree to have anal sex with you but wouldn't let you prepare her for it. Anal sex without preparation is a lot more difficult and unpleasant for the lady to do.

Perhaps she was so embarrassed that you might get your finger dirty that she didn't want to let you do it.

I think a big barrier for women having anal sex with a guy is that they are afraid of disgusting the guy and turing him off, if he gets himself dirty. Which can happen, when the guy doesn't have much experience with anal sex.

If you try to make it more clean and sanitary for yourself in a way that she sees, then she might be more willing to do it with you. She might let you finger her ass, if you put a latex rubber glove on your hand. Because she let you take her ass with a condom on your cock. And having a rubber glove on your hand is equivalent to having a condom on your cock.

Perhaps this is something to try for her next guy.

[QUOTE=Dan7373;1884397]It doesn't make sense that she would agree to have anal sex with you but wouldn't let you prepare her for it. [/QUOTE]She was very clean. I'm guessing she had a bad experience with some careless guy's fingernail hurting her. I did enjoy slowly forcing my dick in porn star style but of course you're right, that's not the best way for her. Anyway, she was very sweet and trying her best to make me happy so I think with a bit more experience she'll be a good one.

[QUOTE=*****man;1884425]She was very clean. I'm guessing she had a bad experience with some careless guy's fingernail hurting her. I did enjoy slowly forcing my dick in porn star style but of course you're right, that's not the best way for her. Anyway, she was very sweet and trying her best to make me happy so I think with a bit more experience she'll be a good one.[/QUOTE]If you put on a rubber glove for fingering the lady's ass, then this takes care of your fingernails for her and any fear she might have of you dirtying your finger with her.

You can buy a whole box of disposable rubber gloves at most pharmacies for not too much money. And you can easily change your glove, if the one you have gets dirty.

It's also a good idea to put on such a glove on your hand for your own safety, if you are going to massage the lady pussy and her clit and finger her ass. Because if you do it with your unprotected hand, then you can easily contaminate your hand with possible STD bacteria or viruses and then infect yourself, when you put on your condom or rub your eye. But if you do it with a glove, then all you need to do is take off your glove and throw it out, before you touch yourself. It's a common-sense precaution against STDs.

[QUOTE=Lee66;1883616]The problem I simply you have to pay in advance, so you have no power.[/QUOTE]To Lee66.

Everyone have to paid upfront all sauna in Bangkok is like that but you don't have to tip upfront only tip if you get good service.

Fast Eddie 48.

[QUOTE=Lee66;1883616]The problem I simply you have to pay in advance, so you have no power.[/QUOTE]I'm not sure if I agree with your logic. Because it's like saying that your credit card company has no power, when it gives you your loan and pays you in advance. This isn't true. Because your agreement with the company gives it a lot of power over you. And that's how it is with most agreements, where you pay in advance.

Paying in advance is often a way to gain power, rather than lose it. Because the lady owes you a favor, when you pay her in advance. You can behave with her like she owes you a favor. Because this is true, and she knows it too.

I usually don't touch the lady, before I give her any money. Because she doesn't owe me anything and I feel powerless with her. But once she takes my money and puts it away, then my hands on her pussy, tits, and ass she gets to feel right away. I feel totally free to go on a groping spree. And the lady doesn't slap me for it either, because she knows this is just foreplay, before her roll in the hay. Giving the lady money in advance gives me the power to go after her and really nail her.

But if you like to stay passive with the lady and expect her to do all the work, then your power to go after her like she owes you a favor is useless for you. Having the power and not using it is the same as not having it. Because it makes no difference for you. You are powerless in this situation not because you don't have the power but because you choose not to use it.

[QUOTE=Dan7373;1884759]Paying in advance is often a way to gain power, rather than lose it. Because the lady owes you a favor, when you pay her in advance.

But if you like to stay passive with the lady and expect her to do all the work, then your power to go after her like she owes you a favor is useless for you. Having the power and not using it is the same as not having it. [/QUOTE]Interesting angle, although I disagree.

The problem is that paying in advance does NOT give you the power or permission to do anything to the sex worker that she does not consent to. That would still be assault / [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url], and ethically odious even if you could get away with it. For instance, if she doesn't want to give a BJ or even have sex at all, having already paid does NOT give you the right or power to make her do it. All you can do is insist that she upholds her end of the bargain (explicit or implicit), but cannot actually do anything about it without creating a conflict or crossing some serious lines, possibly into intimidation or violence. Psychologically, might be easier to justify doing this if you paid in advance, but normal people don't like crossing those lines anyway.

When you pay afterwards, you always have the option of meeting the bad attitude with a simple shrug and saying "you're free to do whatever you want, but if you don't do what is agreed / expected, I won't pay". Then the onus is on them to cross those lines into threats or violence to make you pay.

Now, most people try to get along and will do their part of the bargain, even if they could avoid it. However, sex workers are not a particularly trustworthy and reliable bunch. Although most in Thailand are honest (especially at well-established oilies), in many other places this is patently not the case (hell, even, the word for a sex session is "a trick" and the verb for sex work "to trick" the customer). You don't need the power of payment-after with with the good attitude girls, but with the borderline and bad ones. Even with the fairly decent ones who don't intend to trick you, there could still be minor disagreements and misunderstandings. Paying afterwards ensures minor disagreements will be resolved in your favor rather than hers.

As for the active / passive angle, for most people, regardless of your own level of activity a good session requires active participation of the sex worker. If she just lies there and lets you do whatever while acting indifferent or worse, the term is "starfish", and not many are happy with that type of session (though I'm sure some segment of punters is OK with that, and appreciates the power to do what they want, regardless of the girl's attitude).

[QUOTE=Crocodilexp;1884823]Interesting angle, although I disagree.

The problem is that paying in advance does NOT give you the power or permission to do anything to the sex worker that she does not consent to. That would still be assault, and ethically odious even if you could get away with it. For instance, if she doesn't want to give a BJ or even have sex at all, having already paid does NOT give you the right or power to make her do it. All you can do is insist that she upholds her end of the bargain (explicit or implicit), but cannot actually do anything about it without creating a conflict or crossing some serious lines, possibly into intimidation or violence. Psychologically, might be easier to justify doing this if you paid in advance, but normal people don't like crossing those lines anyway.

When you pay afterwards, you always have the option of meeting the bad attitude with a simple shrug and saying "you're free to do whatever you want, but if you don't do what is agreed / expected, I won't pay". Then the onus is on them to cross those lines into threats or violence to make you pay.

Now, most people try to get along and will do their part of the bargain, even if they could avoid it. However, sex workers are not a particularly trustworthy and reliable bunch. Although most in Thailand are honest (especially at well-established oilies), in many other places this is patently not the case (hell, even, the word for a sex session is "a trick" and the verb for sex work "to trick" the customer). You don't need the power of payment-after with with the good attitude girls, but with the borderline and bad ones. Even with the fairly decent ones who don't intend to trick you, there could still be minor disagreements and misunderstandings. Paying afterwards ensures minor disagreements will be resolved in your favor rather than hers.

As for the active / passive angle, for most people, regardless of your own level of activity a good session requires active participation of the sex worker. If she just lies there and lets you do whatever while acting indifferent or worse, the term is "starfish", and not many are happy with that type of session (though I'm sure some segment of punters is OK with that, and appreciates the power to do what they want, regardless of the girl's attitude).[/QUOTE]Agree with you 100%. Once you hand over the money you have given away your only bargaining chip. I always pay after the session in the PSE shops. Never been asked to pay upfront. Of course I have been a regular at the shops for 10 years now, so I am well known.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1884886]Agree with you 100%. Once you hand over the money you have given away your only bargaining chip. I always pay after the session in the PSE shops. Never been asked to pay upfront. Of course I have been a regular at the shops for 10 years now, so I am well known.[/QUOTE]Paying in advance at oilies is relatively new when compared to soapies where it was always the norm. Bad customer behavior is the reason most cited by shop owners as to why it changed. Personally I don't believe it was a ploy to stiff (no pun intended) customers or has changed attitudes on the part of the girls. You can argue it improves the experience because she is relaxed not worrying whether she will be paid or conversely she doesn't give a rat's ass knowing the money is in the bank. In my experience girls have a set routine they go with. It may vary slightly from customer to customer depending on the usual suspects: customer's behavior and hygiene and the so called chemistry but with some exceptions I doubt paying upfront makes a difference. What it has done though is bump up prices somewhat. It used to be 400 for the shop and 1500 to the girl. Now combined prices are mostly 2000 up, that plus a tip brings the tab closer to 2500.

[QUOTE=Lee66;1883616]The problem I simply you have to pay in advance, so you have no power.[/QUOTE]Most MPs for Thais have been changed to pay upfront, due to problems with customers fucking the girl then finding they have no money. Did not happen with Thais only. Plenty of PSE shop girls have reported this problem, too. Refusing customers is not well taken by management even if the customer is a very well known cheat, on the girl grapevine. MPs for Farangs are mostly changing over to pay up front unless customer is well known. That is how it is. I just accept it. I am not going to stay away from the best looking girls due to policies of paying up front.

The concept of having extra power, is an illusion to me. I don't have asshole personality to fuck and then not pay. I guess theoretically could leave after just 5 or 10 minutes without paying if girl has not yet been molested or nothing sexual took place. However I almost never find out how bad a girl is going to be that quickly in practice. Maybe once or twice happened with a girl really hopeless that I knew pretty much straight away. Vodka at Cherry (maybe), and some pathetic girl at Pink.

I suppose its a good reason to have sex first and leave any mucking around like massage till later. I don't like any real massage anyway. Just time wasting to me.

Bargirls have been burned many times too by customer just not paying after getting the fuck. They start to ask guys to pay upfront if they do not trust the guys. If customers could be trusted to pay correctly agreed money for agreed services, this pay up front problem would not be happening. I still never pay upfront for bargirls, but am a trusted customer. I would indeed be scared of paying up front more so with bargirls unknown, because they could do a runner. That could not really happen at an MP.

[QUOTE=Crocodilexp;1884823]Interesting angle, although I disagree.

The problem is that paying in advance does NOT give you the power or permission to do anything to the sex worker that she does not consent to....[/QUOTE]When the massage lady takes your money, then this is her way of giving you consent for her usual services. That's why she doesn't object, when you start touching her sexually.

The lady's consent empowers you to touch her sexually. And that's why I say that you gain power, when you pay the lady in advance. It's the lady's consent that gives you the power to get sexual with her. And that's why I also say that I feel powerless, before the lady takes my money. I don't yet have her consent at this point.

Of course it's not always clear what exactly the lady has consented to. It's not like people have a list written by a lawyer of all the things they might want to do, and the lady signs it, before anything happens. And that's why the lady can clarify her consent any time she wants by telling the guy 'no' for things she doesn't want to do.

It all comes down to being reasonable. When the lady has apparently consented to have sex with you, then it's reasonable to assume that you can touch her sexually to foreplay her. And that's why you don't need to ask her before you touch her. And if you are reasonable about it, then she probably won't object.

[QUOTE=Dan7373;1885224]When the massage lady takes your money, then this is her way of giving you consent for her usual services. That's why she doesn't object, when you start touching her sexually.[/QUOTE]It's a stretch Dan to suggest unless you pay in advance you do not have permission to touch. When she is on her knees in the shower giving you a blow job even if you haven't paid upfront most likely it's OK to touch. What effect paying upfront might have on service is a different conversation. If the place is well managed this shouldn't be an issue which is why one needs to do their homework on ISG and other forums before venturing out. Incidentally Bongkot is one of the few remaining shops with no upfront payments not even for the massage. Is the service there any better or worse?.

The negative impact of venues shifting incrementally or only with new and unknown customers to a Pay Upfront system would naturally be minimal when we're talking about well managed venues that have tried to gather and maintain a relatively trustworthy staff who came into the game, built their reputation and began to establish a repeat customer base when it was Pay After.

But those more reliable and trustworthy staffers won't be in the game forever. And as new girls come onto the scene never knowing a Pay After system, never being required to learn the ropes and walk the walk not just talk a truck load of bull shite before paying up as was the case when the custmers were only going to Pay After the girl walked the walk (and there will be many, many new girls who will enter the biz ONLY because their little noggins can easily do the math on Bank The Money First = Fake Confusion In The Room), then that is when the usual Pay Upfront hijinks and colossal waste of customer time, emotion and money will come to fruition.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;1885544]The negative impact of venues shifting incrementally or only with new and unknown customers to a Pay Upfront system would naturally be minimal when we're talking about well managed venues that have tried to gather and maintain a relatively trustworthy staff who came into the game, built their reputation and began to establish a repeat customer base when it was Pay After.

But those more reliable and trustworthy staffers won't be in the game forever. And as new girls come onto the scene never knowing a Pay After system, never being required to learn the ropes and walk the walk not just talk a truck load of bull shite before paying up as was the case when the custmers were only going to Pay After the girl walked the walk (and there will be many, many new girls who will enter the biz ONLY because their little noggins can easily do the math on Bank The Money First = Fake Confusion In The Room), then that is when the usual Pay Upfront hijinks and colossal waste of customer time, emotion and money will come to fruition.[/QUOTE]Right there with you on this line of reasoning. I am sometimes astonished by the attitudes that I see in places these days. It's like they are doing you a favor no matter how little service they are providing. And I think this is becoming the default position I most places due in no small part to the pay upfront model. And yes, on Rachada and Petchaburi it has always been pay first, but with a mainly Thai clientele the gals can't get away with poor service. Thai dudes won't put up with it and won't come back. They will also complain, which is something that many Farangs and other Asians will not do.

I am always a bit stunned at how many dudes view P4 P as different from the other services they purchase. They often take the side of the providers instead of that of the customers, even if that is to the detriment of us all. I am sure there are some bad customers out there who are ridiculously demanding and there are some that don't pay, but I believe those guys are a very small minority. If we want our pastime to continue to flourish then we need to press for good service and remember we are the ones paying.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1885570]Right there with you on this line of reasoning. I am sometimes astonished by the attitudes that I see in places these days. It's like they are doing you a favor no matter how little service they are providing. And I think this is becoming the default position I most places due in no small part to the pay upfront model. And yes, on Rachada and Petchaburi it has always been pay first, but with a mainly Thai clientele the gals can't get away with poor service. Thai dudes won't put up with it and won't come back. They will also complain, which is something that many Farangs and other Asians will not do.

I am always a bit stunned at how many dudes view P4 P as different from the other services they purchase. They often take the side of the providers instead of that of the customers, even if that is to the detriment of us all. I am sure there are some bad customers out there who are ridiculously demanding and there are some that don't pay, but I believe those guys are a very small minority. If we want our pastime to continue to flourish then we need to press for good service and remember we are the ones paying.[/QUOTE]Almost all my friends stopped coming to Thailand for their holidays. Most of them started coming here when the situation was already getting worse and didn't feel anything special with the ladies like it used to happens 15+ years ago and called it quit after 1-2 trips more. Only one friend is still coming as his first few trips happened at a still decent time and now he lives most of memories and complaining about the current situation. But he switched from 2 trips per year to just one and it's lately considering changing destination completely.

Mostly I hate the fact that so many girls lately don't want kissing at all. And I'm still fit and decent looking and in my late 30's. I am scared to think about what will be in 10 or 20 more years.

[QUOTE=Franciscass;1885317]It's a stretch Dan to suggest unless you pay in advance you do not have permission to touch. When she is on her knees in the shower giving you a blow job even if you haven't paid upfront most likely it's OK to touch. What effect paying upfront might have on service is a different conversation. If the place is well managed this shouldn't be an issue which is why one needs to do their homework on ISG and other forums before venturing out. Incidentally Bongkot is one of the few remaining shops with no upfront payments not even for the massage. Is the service there any better or worse?.[/QUOTE]I think certainty without any doubt is very important to have in a sexual type of situation for both the guy and the lady. Because when you are having doubts for any reason, then this takes away from your enjoyment and your participation.

You might have trouble getting an erection going, if your mind isn't 100% on the lady. And the lady might be mechanical in her service, if she is worried about getting paid and her mind isn't on what she is doing with you.

Paying the lady in advance is a way to make it very certain for yourself and the lady. Neither you nor she need to worry about consent and payment. Both of you can just enjoy with each other, without any worry.

If you want to have good service from the lady, then you need to put her mind at ease and make it comfortable for her. Or else she won't be able to do a good job with you, even if she wants to.

In other types of business, it's normal to pay in advance for your services, in most situations. When you fly on an airplane for example, then you pay in advance. When you go to watch a movie, then you pay in advance too. Most colleges and universities require payment in advance. The only exception I can think of is eating at the restaurant, where you pay after you eat. But even among restaurants, fast-food restaurants require payment before you eat. And they are more popular than any other type of restaurant. Which means that payment in advance might be a better way of doing it.

A P4P type of situation is different from other types of services. It's important to put the lady at ease and take her anxieties away. Because the quality of her service depends on it. Not paying the lady in advance is liable to lead to mechanical service from the lady, because her anxiety about getting paid is a distraction for her feelings with you.