Kyiv

Well, it was a pretty ordinary trip for me in terms mongering success, enjoyed my time in Kyiv but encountered problems with the apartment operator which I will shall describe in a separate report.

I would like to thank the members of the forum for their valuable tips and hints with on how to deal with Ukraine and it's women.

Day 1

Teamed up with another WSG member for dinner and we both checked out the scene in 112 and Supper Club located in Arena City.

Not a lot of girls in 112, cover charge 10 or 20 hrn but the ones that were there were appealing to the eyes, moved on to Supper Club, free entry price. Now this is more like it, not full but not too empty and not an ugly girl in sight. Initially just stood back and observed the scene but as the night progressed another monger and I decided to move in on a couple of girls sitting together who seem interested in company. The both spoke good English and had a thirst for Coronas, I TCSS (chit chat) with my girl, Diana for awhile and find out she's a 21yr with a 2yr kid and works in Maximum (casino) as waitress, I discover later they are strippers at the club. Anyway they get up and abruptly leave, possibly to stop getting drunk so I hastily grab her number. Didn't score but the consulting fees (Coronas) covered the time for her firm ass and phone number.

Day 2

Went solo to Arena disco, apparently it's voted the best disco in Ukraine but it must be the most fucking expensive, 100 hrn cover charge and frequented by potentially the most stuck up people in Ukraine. Noticed a few service women at the casino bar on my way to the disco. The disco was about 1/2 full, managed to talk to a few regulars but didn't get far with them nor get their numbers. Also spoke to a service provided who wanted USD 300 for the night which I simply interpreted as "don't want your business Kitajski" price. Although she was good looking, I didn't like her attitude so quickly parted ways.

I think I was shafted by some undercover employees of Arena. I approached a hot bird called Nadia who speaks fuck all English so I was about to cut my losses and leave when she asks me to buy her friend and her a drink, it seems irregular given she already has one, we could hardly communicate plus she didn't seem interested in me. I thought WTF, at least I get bragging rights. I buy them what they are drinking which of course are 35hrn drinks, she then ask me to buy myself a drink which I do. After about 10-15 mins of nothing, she and her girlfriend get up and leave, I try to stop her but she brushes me off without even touching the drink, I conclude the bitches are there to up the disco's revenue. Fortunately befriended by a Georgian wingman so with his Russian skills managed to talk a couple of 18yr students on the way out of the club and being gentlemen we are, obtained their numbers and escorted them home.

Day 3

Weather was unsettled so a perfect time to order in, I call Vice Sisters (phone number in Kyiv Post) with a rate of USD 50 per 1 hr and USD 30 per +1hr. Although my apartment is in central Kiev the providers couldn't find it, annoying because I could see the girls from my apartment but they couldn't find the door to apartments. Anyway after a few attempts going backward and forward they give up and tell me the girls have gone home, yeah right.

Thankfully my Georgian russian speaking friend came to rescue and calls another agency and arranges a delivery. After 1/2 hour the two girls arrive, ironically the same girls I saw from my apartment earlier on, apparently this is a standard tactic but agencies will send one good looking or relatively good looking girl plus a fugly one. I later discover it is quite acceptable to demand that they send good looking girls and to threaten and to send them back if they attempt to palm off fuglies. Anyway as I didn't have a choice so I automatically select the better looking girl.

Her name is Albina, couldn't speak a word of English, red curly hair, c-section scar, average looking by Ukrainian standards with a kind of farm girl look, I thought to myself, ok F&F (fuck & forget). The sex was nothing to write home about, pretty much the FSU Standard Operating Procedure SOP, cover BJ, no DFK, fuck them, blow my load, clean up, she has a cigarette, gives me an ordinary massage and attempts to give me a second round. She wasn't stunning nor provided a GFE, I couldn't get motivated for another round so I give up. I send her away, she asks for taxi money of 30 hrn which clearly includes a built in tip.

Later in night, I visit Vice Sisters who claim to have 25 girls in the apartment, I discover that's an extreme exaggeration. Although their apartment is near Independence Square, it's impossible to find so I catch a taxi and call Yulia at Vice Sisters who gives directions to the driver, about a 15 hrn ride from Arena. It's hard to describe directions, you go through an archway, head for a door in the left hand corner of the courtyard, go up the stairs to the top floor until you confront a padded door. I storm the apartment with four Ottomans (Turks), they quickly grab the better looking ones and I get left with a choice of six pig dogs. I can't leave the place empty handed so I choose the least ugly one, I pay my USD 50 and take the girl via taxi to my apartment.

In the apartment, I give her a beer, we take a shower. She is not good looking, quite fat and can't speak English but seemed aware of her limitations, she provided lots of GFE, covered BJ, some AR, enthusiastic FJ and massage. She tried hard to get me going a second time but I couldn't do it. I gave her taxi money and send her on her way.

In summary, I guess "you get what you pay for" and unfortunately USD50 doesn't buy much in Kyiv and it seems the going rate is USD 100 per hour to get a model or Kiev-X grade girl.

Day 4 - Saturday

Teamed up with my Georgian mate in Arena disco. The cover charge still 100hrn but place is packed and heaving, I suppose given it's price and prestige it's natural to expect the most affluent and pretentious social elite to frequent Arena. It was a very tough night in the office, although a few girls were clearly "working" there was no way I could talk to them. I'm sure it's a Kitajski (Asian) thing, they didn’t want others to see them talking to one, I definitely felt "racist" vibe. It's probably a small community at that level but every girl I approached refused to speak to me, I mean they looked but from a curiosity perspective. My Georgian friend did his best to involve me in his activities but he also sensed it, I left him alone to avoid any collateral damage.

This experience unsettled me because similar to Russia, I expected the FSU states to be more receptive to Asian races. Incidentally, I don't have a problem with my Kiev regulars and other Ukrainians who I found to be very helpful, honest and genuine especially when asking hot dyevs dumb direction questions.

Anyway despite my mixed experiences in Kyiv, I enjoyed myself and would visit again.

Great report - sorry to hear you didn't have much luck.

Who were you renting the apartment from?

I think your day 1 girls were waiting for you to pop the question, 'how much?'

[QUOTE=Humsup]Well, it was a pretty ordinary trip for me in terms mongering success, enjoyed my time in Kyiv but encountered problems with the apartment operator which I will shall describe in a separate report.

I would like to thank the members of the forum for their valuable tips and hints with on how to deal with Ukraine and it's women.

Day 1

Teamed up with another WSG member for dinner and we both checked out the scene in 112 and Supper Club located in Arena City.

Not a lot of girls in 112, cover charge 10 or 20 hrn but the ones that were there were appealing to the eyes, moved on to Supper Club, free entry price. Now this is more like it, not full but not too empty and not an ugly girl in sight. Initially just stood back and observed the scene but as the night progressed another monger and I decided to move in on a couple of girls sitting together who seem interested in company. The both spoke good English and had a thirst for Coronas, I TCSS (chit chat) with my girl, Diana for awhile and find out she's a 21yr with a 2yr kid and works in Maximum (casino) as waitress, I discover later they are strippers at the club. Anyway they get up and abruptly leave, possibly to stop getting drunk so I hastily grab her number. Didn't score but the consulting fees (Coronas) covered the time for her firm ass and phone number.

(stuff deleted)

Anyway despite my mixed experiences in Kyiv, I enjoyed myself and would visit again.[/QUOTE]

On a recent visit to Kiev I decided to check out the girls on a web site 'badrussiangirls.com' Soon developed into something more akin to badexperience.com. First thing that happened was that when I called one of the numbers provided none of the girls pictured on the site were available, however the woman on the end of the line tells me she had a really nice one she could send over. I agree and 50 minutes later the doorbell rings, I open the door and standing there are 2 fat and ugly canditates at which point I should have offered a taxi fare and sent them home. But I had been out drinking earlier and well, guys you know how it works. Anyway I chose the least ugly of the two and then quickly found out that the price quoted, $100 for two hours was the absolute basic amount, anything else like BJ, kissing etc was extra ! To my shame I pressed on only to have some of the most boring sex of my life. Has any one had a positive experience from this web site?

I thought I should share my experiences or warn members of the pitfalls using the services of these people. Although the information may be placed in the General Info section, I've posted in the Kiev section due to it's relevance to Kiev.

To set the context, the proprietors / operators of Kiev-Service and Edem Club are Ludmila or Sergey Kulik

[url]http://www.kiev-service.com.ua/contact.html[/url]

The services agreed and paid for my trip were:

- 4 nights accommodation at apartment 2038 @ USD 150 / night located at [url]http://kiev-service.com.ua/apartments/item/2038/[/url]
- Airport transfers from airport to apartment and vice versa @ USD 30 / trip
- 4 hours of translation services @ USD 25 / hour and translator scheduled to meet me at the airport.

This is what transpired…

Arrive at Boryspil, clear immigration and customs without any hassles. My greeting party are not at the arrivals gate, I have to wait about 1/2 hour before the translator, Anna arrives. Ok, not a big deal, I work in ex-Eastern Europe so am accustomed to their definition of service. We stop at a service station to fill up on the way back, not sure why it couldn't have been done when not on a job but fair enough it's part of the FSU experience.

Arrive at an apartment, strange as I thought we passed Bessarabka market which is near the location of apt 2038. We are greeted by Sergey Kulik at the apartment who takes us (Anna & I) into the apartment. Fortunately, I printed and brought the details of apt 2038 so I immediately identified the apartment I was shown was not the same. I asked where I was and which apartment I was in, he can't speak English so via Anna he confirmed he had taken me to [url]http://kievservice.com.ua/apartments/item/2034/[/url]

As soon as I discovered the apartment swap, I adamantly explained the situation. I simply explained it was not acceptable to do this as they had confirmed and accepted payment for the other apartment. Although the price is the same on the website, the practice is still unacceptable as they could exploit the situation and stick me in a "dog box" out in the sticks. I reminded him we had already paid him good money and if they had provided advance notice, I could find a cheaper apartment located in a better position. The other problem was I had already given apartment 2038 details to my friends where we going to stay with me later in the week.

He attempts to justify his actions by saying the current tenant in 2038 had extended their stay another day. I replied it was not my problem, I didn’t see why I had to wear the cost of the inconvenience. He asked me what I would do in the situation, I said he should have moved the tenant to 2034 and given me 2038 as per the original agreement.

Anyway the arguing continued for about 1 hour, whilst he called his wife Ludimila for consultation. Eventually, I agreed to stay in 2034 if he compensated me USD 50 / day. I also demanded he give all four days of payment totalling to USD 200 upfront which I would refund for days when they move me to 2038. He begrudging but threateningly agreed to the deal and handed over USD 200 and left. The next 2 1/2 hours are spent with Anna showing me around Kiev to exchange money, buying a pre-paid SIM card, shopping and so on. I let her go with 1/2 hr to spare.

The next day, Ludimila who speaks average English arrives to move me to other apartment. I said although about 500m away, I need a taxi as I had bought a lot of bottled refreshements and supplies which where heavy to carry. Anyway we catch a cab to 2038 and later discover she lost her phone in the taxi. In the apartment she is trying to explain to me that it is normal practice in Ukraine for people to extend their stay with no notice. I said that's fine but told her if it's standard practice then they should factor it and not accept bookings for a number of days after a current booking. The fact they accepted 'back to back' bookings was their problem and poor business practice, I also explained that unlike a hotel the impact of switching apartments and location is significant for visitors who are not familiar with the city or the local language.

I checked the apartment and settle the paperwork and I proceed to take my wallet out of my bag, open my wallet and return her USD 150. I should have anticipated this, but then she complains about the impact on her margins and blah, blah of the USD 50. I also ask about my return airport transfer and she "claims" my correspondent agent had not paid for it nor had paid the amount in full. Of course this was bullshit and merely a ploy to squeeze me for the USD 50. I told her she was wrong and left my bag with my wallet in the room with her for about a 1 min to go and retrieve the receipt from my correspondent agent in the bedroom. I show her the receipt but says she wants EUR 10 to cover the shortfall in payment and then she will provide an airport transfer. I think, fuck it, and just pay her the 60 hrn to get her out of there.

I have to mention, I could not withdraw cash as I had accidentally brought an expired debit card plus I had not reset nor knew the pin for my credit cards. This meant I was screwed for cash and had to rely on the meagre cash funds brought with me to carry me through the trip and hence given the dire nature, knew my cash position with exact precision. Anyway later in the night as I counted funds to go out, I had not gone anywhere or done anything since her visit, I realised I was USD 100 plus the equivalent of USD 25 of my other currency short less the USD 150 I gave her. I re-counted and checked a number of times and I was definitely short USD 100 and a large denomination of my other currency.

Fuck, I know strong acqusations but my only conclusion is she (Ludmila) must have grabbed those notes when I left the room to get the receipt.

Although I couldn't prove anything, I called her the next day (may as well fuck up her day as she had fucked up mine) and told her I knew she took my money and told her the other currency couldn't be exchanged in Ukraine so she may as well give it back to me. As you can imagine, she started hurling abuse at me, saying I had a hooker all night and who had stolen ALL my money. It was amusing because if hypothetically it was true, how would she know and secondly why would a hooker only take a few notes.

I figure Ludimila only stole enough to cover her inconvenience and not rob me blind. What annoyed me though is I played fair and stuck to the original compensation agreement but they started this whole mess and screwed me initially and exploited my trust to screw me again.

Amazingly, the driver did arrive at the apartment to take me to the airport. I had visions of being drived down a wooded paddock and shot so I had prepared a contingency of taking a taxi but fortunately it was the same driver who picked me up before so I felt a bit better however I was still on edge and at attention in case he pulled out a pistol to blow me away.

Anyway an interesting twist to my Ukrainian experience.

Humsup -

You had a shitty Kiev experience at the top of the scale. I think most of us can relate to the half hour late pick-up, stopping for gas, change the apartment routine, etc. - but you got the bonus plan.

I'm not sure if there is a truly top-service apartment agency in town. I used the GoToRussia Atlanta-based agency to book my Kiev apartment this summer, thinking a U.S. based business would have higher standards. But they still use local contacts, so the "service-culture" remains pretty much the same. I booked for fifteen days at one apartment with a location I liked (across from the Arena nightclub), with a return visit at the same apartment after a week in Odessa. I made these arrangements months in advance with the Atlanta office.

Long story short, I happen to see my agent at the airport on the way to Odessa with some other clients. I spoke with him briefly, and he just happened to mention that I would be staying at another apartment off Independence Square when I returned. If I hadn't accidently run into him, this would have been a complete surprise on my return. He didn't seem to think anything of this as I explained my annoyance with the inconvenience (I picked and liked the location near Arena, I had stashed some wine, beer and food on a top shelf that I hoped to use on my return, the school I was studying Russian at was within good walking distance to my Arena area apartment, etc.). This guy spoke great English and had visited the States and met with the owner of GoToRussia. But still the mentality is unchanged. I didn't challenge him the way you did with your people, since there is the feeling that things will not improve, but only has the possibility of getting worse.
I know some people will say roll with another culture, blah, blah, blah ... But, when I'm being charged Western prices, I expect the services to rise to the level of Western services. Sadly, an expectation like this only leads to a set-up for frustration and agravation in Kiev.

Gave them taxi fare? At this point you should have said 'no thanks' and slammed the door in their faces, which is much kinder then they would have expected from a local. Or if you wanted to be polite westerner you could have said, 'sorry girls, you aren't even close to what I was looking for', smile at them and then shut the door. Make sure when you are on the phone with the business agent you make it clear unattractive girls will be sent away.

And one wonders as to why prices for a hot chick have gone from 50-100-150-? in five years.

When ANYTHING starts to go wrong in a deal like this, if you haven't paid already END IT at once. Sometimes even when you have paid it might be worth it to hit the eject button.

I just checked out the website and saw a few Gia girls and other local agencies. Damn I miss those hot slavic babes.

[QUOTE=Tremayne]On a recent visit to Kiev I decided to check out the girls on a web site 'badrussiangirls.com' Soon developed into something more akin to badexperience.com. First thing that happened was that when I called one of the numbers provided none of the girls pictured on the site were available, however the woman on the end of the line tells me she had a really nice one she could send over. I agree and 50 minutes later the doorbell rings, I open the door and standing there are 2 fat and ugly canditates at which point I should have offered a taxi fare and sent them home. But I had been out drinking earlier and well, guys you know how it works. Anyway I chose the least ugly of the two and then quickly found out that the price quoted, $100 for two hours was the absolute basic amount, anything else like BJ, kissing etc was extra ! To my shame I pressed on only to have some of the most boring sex of my life. Has any one had a positive experience from this web site?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Tremayne]On a recent visit to Kiev I decided to check out the girls on a web site 'badrussiangirls.com' Soon developed into something more akin to badexperience.com. ......Has any one had a positive experience from this web site?[/QUOTE]
Nope, a negative experience too. I just posted this a couple of days ago in reply to a question on the St Petersburg forum about the same website:

[i]"I used this website last year to find girls in Ukraine. You must pay a fee to get the phone number or email address of the girl and it's a total waste of money.[/i]

[i]Girls who no longer work are not removed, so 90% of their database is out of date. For the remaining ones, you can find them on other (free) web sites.[/i]

[i]In Ukraine, 99% of the girls are working for Gia or SFH (free sites). I was really pissed off as, initially, I saw on BadRussianGirls some girls who were not on Gia or SFH websites, so I paid the fee. It turns out that the phone number and email address are those of Gia and SFH. They are former girls of these agencies, who have been removed from their respective website because the girls stopped working long ago.[/i]

[i]I've also checked for Belarus, and girls are no longer working too. For Moscow, same girls are on tons of other (free) web sites.[/i]

[i]I've not checked St Pete, but I doubt it's different.[/i]

I'm surprised by your comments about the girls though, if they come from Gia or SFH. I have positive experience with these agencies, girls on their website are real and the ones I had provided good services "all included" (no extra payments).

I arrived in Kyev last night very late. Was really tired but couldn't resist doing some hunting. Checked out the casino and bar in the hotel and not a single lady (or patron) to be found (not too surprised for a Sunday night at about 2 a.m.). Happened to pick up a copy of the Kyev Post on the plane coming in so I called Vice Sisters and asked how much. They said $50 for an hour. I said I wanted a girl for one hour OWO CIM and they said none of the girls do OWO, oral with condom and classical sex only. That was a surprise but not a show stopper. They asked if I wanted a blonde. I said yes, and she needs to be slim. They said she would be there in 20 to 30 minutes and I would have to go to the lobby to pick her up. I said fine. She called in 15 minutes or less and I went down to pick her up. She was a redhead (go figure, they asked me if I wanted a blonde and I said yes). I waited while she registered with security. I expected to need to pay $20 for her to get past security but didn't need to pay anything. Security was really nice and apologized for the delay but said it was safer if she registered. I said no problem. She came up to the room and started saying something in Russian. I didn't understand but took it to mean she wanted to be paid in advance. I said no, I would pay after. She talked some more so I picked up the paper and pointed to the Vice Sisters ad and started to call Vice Sisters. I figured I would call them and have them explain or translate. She said something and started to leave. She wasn't that great so I decided to call her bluff. I figured she would be back knocking on the door in 2 or 3 minutes, or I would get a call from Vice Sisters. I fell asleep pretty much instantly. I woke up some time later and nothing - no knock on the door, no call from Vice Sisters.

So what's the story guys? Some details please from guys with experience with the call in services (Gia, Kiev Beauties, Desired Stars, Vice Sisters, etc.) Do they expect to be paid in advance, or after the deed? Normally its always pay after play. Please tell me the story here. Does the policy vary from agency to agency?

Speaking for myself I always try to pay afterwards. Until now I only had a problem once with it. And indeed the girl wanted to leave, So I said directly “ok, go” and then she realized that she would not have any income, so she stayed. :-)

When a girl from an agency comes to the apartment she will always call her agency as soon as she arrived. Mostly the phone will be handed over to you and then the agency will ask if I like the girl or not. When you say yes, they will ask you to pay in advance. At that time you have to say to the agency that you will pay after the act. Mostly it is ok!

I also experienced many times that the word “money” does not exist in the vocabulary of a girl until she gets dressed to leave. Once I even had to remind a girl that I still had to pay her :-) She came for two hours, but stayed all night. In the morning she forgot about the payment :-)

I really think it different with every girl and I also think it has to do with some kind of “trust” between the girl and you. I mostly offer the girls a tea and/or a cigarette when they just arrive. And I always show her the flat and give her a clean towel.

Then I mostly start talking about her life to get to know her better. And of course all the mentioned things to comfort her. And after that I’m sure that payment is mostly afterwards and the sex is better. :-)

Have fun,

Cheers

In my experience it's always pay before play.

Most of the girls I've pulled from RP didn't ask for the cash until it was time for them to go home from my apartment. But I think that is a case of YMMV. One time I had a girl en route from RP ask for the money, that was a big no go. But if a girl asks for the money when she is in your apartment/hotel room I don't see any reason not to give it to her, I think that is standard in this situation.

And as always, keep anything you want to see again out of sight.

Fully agree with Cruiser D. If I like the girl, I also pay before play, once we're back in my apartment.

One girl explained to me one day that, otherwise, some guys always find some excuses not to pay (was not a good session, did not cum, cum too early so what about half price, bla bla bla...).

On one occasion, the girl turned out to be really bad. I just called the agency and they gave me credit for another girl the next night.

Hey, where has the Doctor been hiding. Don't tell me he has found true love? ;)

Hey there,

I'm going to be in Kiev for a single night. Since I get in the evening I'm interested in ideas on where to stay and then ideas on "instant meetings".

I've been to Kiev before when I had more time (with apartment) and visited RP, but with only 1 night I don't think the apartment option is a good one (experienced guys feel free to correct me.) So I guess the easy idea would be staying in the RUS and either hooking up there (is it possible? never even went into a hotel) or going to the RP. AM I going to have to make a "donation" to security when I get back with my "date".

I appreciate all replies.

Hy all,

I'm planning a new trip tp Kiev! I read in internet about massage.

Did somebody use "Rakuena" or "Bagira"? Some advise for me please? Other better salon?

Spasibo

Yes, of course on reflection I should have just closed the door on them but it was 01.00 am in the morning and I had been drinking, plus in the back of my mind was the concern that they would start a screaming match and wake up the whole block. Although I have been staying in the same apartment for almost 5 years I am still regarded with suspicion by my neighbours due to being the only foreigner.
As for the prices going up there are two reasons for that, one is the general rise in the cost of living in Kiev over the last few years, and the other of course is the ever increasing number of foreigners like us who are more than happy to visit Kiev with dollars or euros in our pockets and exploit the local female population most of whom are considerably lower than us on the social/economic scale. As somebody once said 'Poverty is a great aphrodisiac'.

[QUOTE=Cruiser D]Gave them taxi fare? At this point you should have said 'no thanks' and slammed the door in their faces, which is much kinder then they would have expected from a local. Or if you wanted to be polite westerner you could have said, 'sorry girls, you aren't even close to what I was looking for', smile at them and then shut the door. Make sure when you are on the phone with the business agent you make it clear unattractive girls will be sent away.

And one wonders as to why prices for a hot chick have gone from 50-100-150-? in five years.

When ANYTHING starts to go wrong in a deal like this, if you haven't paid already END IT at once. Sometimes even when you have paid it might be worth it to hit the eject button.

I just checked out the website and saw a few Gia girls and other local agencies. Damn I miss those hot slavic babes.[/QUOTE]