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This subject is really too complex to deal with on a forum as each of us are making very relevant points but not managing to make them into a coherent whole. And, no, I'm not even going to try.
I recognise all the points about inflation but I think of other factors which in my opinion greatly reduce the validity of the inflation argument.
1. In 2003 most workers came from western Europe not Romania, but, despite their higher living costs they were happy with 50 euros. I do not buy the argument that in 2003 there were more customers per girl; there are clubs now which are way more crowded than ever Atlantis was. World is a different matter but that was a reflection of appalling management, the exception proving the rule. I am not sure that 2003 and 2017 is comparing like with like.
2. Despite the increase in clubs and workers, there are many girls who are providing excellent service at or below 50 euros per half hour. These girls are earning way way more than the average customer. One girl who was earning 30 euros (note, 30 euros not 50 per half hour) for 30 minutes said that her profit was 5000 a month, which in Romanian terms is 18 months typical wage!!
3. The issue of 50 euros buying poor service is a cultural one, bred of addictive greed on the one side (particularly when girls are coming from the financial insecurity of a dirt poor background), and foolishness on the other (customers wanting to be seen as somehow "good" men who look after women nicely). A marginal increase to 60 euros would be irrelevant. I have had more than one girl tell me of their absolute contempt for 30 minute men who give 5 or 10 euro tips (no, I'm not referring here to Pistons as I don't know who or in what exact circumstances he tips)
There is a strong argument for wages keeping place with inflation, or maybe even grossly exceeding inflation: recent times have seen the diminuition of earned income as a part of national income in western europe and the USA. labour produces more and more wealth but gets a smaller share of the cake. But high wages do nothing to solve the cultural issues leading to poor performance. One example: in the past the print unions on Fleet street quite rightly secured high wages, but they also ran a system of huge overmanning to the point that people didn't even need to go to work regularly in order to get paid the highest manual workers wages.
Issue 1: should prostitutes wages in Germany keep place with general wage inflation. That depends on what the appropriate net earning should be, and what the relevant starting point should be
Issue 2: how to deal with greed and poor service. That requires a market which rewards good service and honest work.
Anyway, the influence of our discussions on what actually happens must be 0%.
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[QUOTE=Optimist;2029851]
Anyway, the influence of our discussions on what actually happens must be 0%.[/QUOTE]That is exactly what the penny stock gamblers on the stock market forum who only lost money, kept telling themselves too. LOL! Welcome to 2017!
I think there is one point we haven't looked at too much in here:
The total pool of budgeted money for global p6 will not change due to pricing. At worst, it may fall if prices goes up, and the FKK percentage share of this total money pool may fall if prices goes up too much above the willingness to pay threshold. (I can see the willingness to pay threshold for this 30 min fkk sex is at about 60-65e. And most likely just 60e as you 1. don't want to gamble and stretch your luck, and 2. those 5e notes are slightly more inconvenient and thus add load on that entire pricing psychology theory...
So the only thing that can be done to make the girls more satisfied with their work, as in having an increased income over time, is by implementing a cap on workers. And in order to keep the girls entry fees low, a cap on clubs should also be put in place (reduced management).
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Pistons. I didn't say the influence of our actions was zero, just our discussions LOL.
You are right about the increased entry costs for girls: in 2003 they were only paying around 50 euros entry (65 entry but with various rebates) but now it is around 75 (plus of course the 25 euro tax). This higher daily upfront cost is a daily stress for the less successful girls.
As for the total pool of money for P6, I agree it is not likely to be affected by marginal price changes. The FKK model greatly increased the available pool of money, but I can't think of any new innovation which can expand the market, and hence earning opportunities for girls
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[QUOTE=Optimist;2029857]Pistons. I didn't say the influence of our actions was zero, just our discussions LOL.[/QUOTE]And I am saying basically that everybody reads the forum. Or has someone that reads it in proximity to them who voices their thoughts if something interesting comes up. That is the information society we live in in a nutshell.
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[QUOTE=Optimist;2029851] (particularly when girls are coming from the financial insecurity of a dirt poor background)[/QUOTE][QUOTE=Optimist;2029851]I have had more than one girl tell me of their absolute contempt for 30 minute men who give 5 or 10 euro tips (no, I'm not referring here to Pistons as I don't know who or in what exact circumstances he tips)[/QUOTE]Oh here we go again with the politically correct "they are poor, so they had no chances in life" argument.
Great so we can forget the E55 or E60 per hour discussion if these girls are too ignorant or arrogant to realise that a 'lousy' E5 or E10 tip equals to 10-20% extra.
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[QUOTE=Optimist;2029857]The FKK model greatly increased the available pool of money, but I can't think of any new innovation which can expand the market, and hence earning opportunities for girls[/QUOTE]Wellness: swimming pools, sauna, steamroom, jacuuzi, holes in the garden (football), volleyball, ping pong. That is why the small clubs are the ones that should close down and not the larger ones with more wellness options. Preferably wellness that doesn't add employment, although I guess some like their hamam and thai massages too.
Also niche themed clubs. Oase has their niche. Sharks, Oceans, Paradise all plays on a niche. Parties can also add to the money pool. Palace parties are great for example! Other clubs can learn...
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[QUOTE=HornyHarry;2029861]Oh here we go again with the politically correct "they are poor, so they had no chances in life" argument.
Great so we can forget the E55 or E60 per hour discussion if these girls are too ignorant or arrogant to realise that a 'lousy' E5 or E10 tip equals to 10-20% extra.[/QUOTE]Harry. You misread my post to draw the total opposite conclusion from what I said: I was trying to write a nuanced report, which unfortunately means that it is easy to misunderstand if not taken as a whole.
Just because I report what girls say doesn't mean I agree. I thought my post made it clear I saw it as an example of greed.
Also I never never implied that someone from a poor background was justified in bad behavior: I just point out that it can help lead to a certain attitude. One which I think is wrong.
I don't think 60 euros per half hour is a good idea as a solution to bad behaviour.
If I had been being "politically correct" (which I was very definitely not), you would be best to engage me in discussion, not throw the (erroneous) label at me
Conclusion: i completely agree with you so there's no need to argue with me :)
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[QUOTE=Pistons;2029864]Wellness: swimming pools, sauna, steamroom, jacuuzi, holes in the garden (football), volleyball, ping pong. That is why the small clubs are the ones that should close down and not the larger ones with more wellness options. Preferably wellness that doesn't add employment, although I guess some like their hamam and thai massages too.
Also niche themed clubs. Oase has their niche. Sharks, Oceans, Paradise all plays on a niche. Parties can also add to the money pool. Palace parties are great for example! Other clubs can learn...[/QUOTE]Good point. I wrote just the other day that this is one reason which the RTC are getting it seems to me fewer customers. Sharks has some good opportunities for product development (despite its tight site).
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[QUOTE=Optimist;2029868]Good point. I wrote just the other day that this is one reason which the RTC are getting it seems to me fewer customers.[/QUOTE]Indeed, and it seems games like pool, shuffleboard, airhockey, ping pong, dart and quizzes are expanding from the niche bars to the entire nightlife market now.
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At Optimist,
Sorry, I indeed misread your post. My apologies.
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One more thing they can add to reduce cost at the clubs: bionic bartenders:
[URL]https://youtu.be/TBF7EE2xnN4[/URL]
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[QUOTE=Optimist;2029868]Good point. I wrote just the other day that this is one reason which the RTC are getting it seems to me fewer customers. Sharks has some good opportunities for product development (despite its tight site).[/QUOTE]What type of club would be the first to go? An RTC with smaller bills or a club like Oceans that sunk alot of cash into the club? From the looks of the setup at Sharks I'd guess their overhead and start up costs are marginal compared to building a club from the ground up.
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[QUOTE=HornyHarry;2029704]You've got to be fucking kidding me!?
Why raise prices to E60? So that you can have the same lame service for E60 instead of E50? You really think that for E10 difference the scammers, swindlers and the sharks will go like: "but yes of course, for E10 extra I will now kiss!
Paying [b]more[/b] for [u]less[/u] service, that's a bit naive, isn't it? Which business school did you go to? 🙄
The problem is twofold: too many tourists/naive souls willing to pay E50 for substandard service (and probably even dumb enough to give a tip.[/QUOTE]Upselling is only problem in fucking tourists or Asians clubs, like Palace, Oase, Sharks or GT. So many clubs were not the faintest upselling. I have very close to 50 rooms with Kate at Acapulco, she would be one of the prettiest in all Hessen clubs and at GT, but I have her for 40 €/30 mn, mostly 1 hour rooms for 80 and she never asked for tip or extra, only smiles and when you come again?
Do Mandy or Sandra need to upsell? Of course they don't, they give good services even for only 50 , even I m not a 50 € guy. Good services girls don't need to upsell to make good money, Sandra was quite busy just because of her nice behavior. In German FKK, some good girls make more than 15000 per month. Girls who upsell are not the best level.
My advice: don't pay extra for DFK, you will have very rare kiss, not fluent, not passionate at all. Some GFE girls are generous and passionate, without upselling, only for 50/30 mn, and they ask if you would like to repeat.
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[QUOTE=JohnEllee;2029848]First all, we should acknowledge that all these WGs are actually service providers, they are entitled to get fair and reasonable pay. However, Excessive competition between WGs leads to not only a decline in the quality of service but the prevalence of frustration for both sides. There must be a win-win situation.
I have gone with more than 50 girls in the past three years in different clubs. According to my own experience, majority of them accept 100 one-hour session and would like to provide decent service. They all complained 50 half-hours session and considered mongers might take advantage through that.
So I think the better pricing structure is to set the minimum service to 1 hour for 100 instead of the current half hour. After this first initial hour, 50 for every extension of half an hour.
I am sure most girl will be happy with that.[/QUOTE]I'm really not a 50 € 30 mn guy, just when I don't enjoy, but never if I enjoy, but some guys don't have much money to spend, and some good girls like Mandy or Marina or Martina agree to work good job for 50 €. It can be win-win for some not rich guys and some good girls.
Lazy girls seem to be more expensive than skillful girls.
Girls can go to Switzerland for higher rates, but how many at Sharks could get business there, with high level enough?
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[QUOTE=HornyHarry;2029704]
Paying [b]more[/b] for [u]less[/u] service, that's a bit naive, isn't it? Which business school did you go to? 🙄
[/QUOTE]You are a twerpy little chipmunk, aren't you?! 😀 Never mind which school I went; wanting all for a 50 doesn't make you well schooled, it just makes you a cheapskate. You should skip FKKs and go to Tijuana or some cheap third world place to fit your budget. Happy hunting.
