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A problem with the renting laws in relation to p6 is that it contributes to pimping networks. Basically creating a stronger barrier for the solo entrepreneur. While the pimp networks always finds a way around these barriers.
The best way to tackle pimping would be to loosen up on these petty laws. Fully legalizing p6. Move everything into state owned brothels, and use block chain based payment systems to track where the money ends up.
[QUOTE=Pksimar69;2313234]I don't get this.
How the hell can I be doing something illegal if I rent a flat to two girls that I meet with their jeans and sport shoes but at night they open wide their legs? How can I know this from before if the renting contract doesn't say that they work as prostitutes? If they say this OK I agree but, if they don't say the truth about their profession?[/QUOTE]You will never rent a flat to somebody without checking their regular incomes to be sure to get paid every month, prostitutes and pimps have no salary bill, company name.
[QUOTE=Pistons;2313561]A problem with the renting laws in relation to p6 is that it contributes to pimping networks. Basically creating a stronger barrier for the solo entrepreneur. While the pimp networks always finds a way around these barriers.
The best way to tackle pimping would be to loosen up on these petty laws. Fully legalizing P6. Move everything into state owned brothels, and use block chain based payment systems to track where the money ends up.[/QUOTE]You can't be serious.
The fully legal, state-owned brothel systems of rural Nevada and of Curaçao have never been known for a combination of reasonable prices and liberal services. Those are just two examples, but even Germany now purports to regulate the sexual activities within its FKKs.
Why do you always think a pimp is involved when a lady does sex work.
In most western countries, the model is very simple. A lady goes into sex work, takes out an advertisement, does some level of screening, has sex with a guy for money, and turns a profit. There is no pimping involved. She often chooses to essentially outsource the booking and transportation aspects of her job by paying an assistant or joining an escort agency. But many choose to be fully independent and do all their own administrative tasks. She does outcall, and if she offers incall, she usually has her own trick pad that she shares with other ladies.
In countries with educated women, the pimp is a myth. With state-owned brothels, the state becomes the pimp through high taxes and fees and the state's insistence that it regulate every sex act.
[QUOTE=MrHo;2313514]Romanians are not pimped? I always smell some kind of more than lover boys behind Romanian scene because look, there simply are so many Romanians that you can say FKK industry is supported by Romanians, so I assume there must be a organization of some kind all over Romania to recruit girl and sending them to FKK, I mean I cannot believe they found FKK online and took their limited money to come all the way to German FKK to knock on the door to work, I do thins there are some organized platform who help them and support them to work in FKK, I mean not all prostitute were tutes, they once were normal girls with limited money not knowing what to do.
Yeah these tattoo thing with guys name is funny, try asking them, they always say it is my brothers name about their tattoo.[/QUOTE]I think the truth is somewhere between and we will never know. I also believe there is. Kind of platform behind but I also think there are many girls that work independent. These girls have connections with many other people that somehow work in the industry but it doesn't necessary mean they are pimped. I think that when a new girl comes to a club she can also be recommended by a WG that already works there. They probably know each other from before, they all start like that. But of course there is also this pimp organisation-platform that pushes and helps girls to get in the clubs.
There will always be a mystery how the system works, even behind the FKK and ownership but at the end of the day why should we care so much?
[QUOTE=Pistons;2313537]It surely takes some investigations to know for sure who is pimped or not. And who is with a loverboy they may actually love. So not considering them as pimps at all. Then the third category is single girls.
The hardest part is perhaps to define the first two categories. Who has a boyfriend they really love, and who is subject to something else. Because this line can sometimes be a fine line too.
HB and others (a bartenders I have talked to) claims 90% of the girls are in the first two categories. And only 10% run solo. Personally I think this is a standard exaggeration. But 70-80% sure. And I have my ways of making a census that I won't tell here.
But some of the girls who has a boyfriend, actually keeps him back home in Romania or Bulgaria. But they tend to communicate on snapchat or some web 2.0 thing all the time. And in these cases, they are hardly pimped given the long distance between them. They are merely workers abroad..[/QUOTE]No, not really. Some girls we know for sure.
As an example, Abdel girls, they were pimped. So for some girls, we know for sure that they were pimped. I avoid writing names of Abdel girls for their privacy, but veteran mongers since 2010 ish know which girls I am referring to.
Further to my London summary the other day, here is a detailed report you may enjoy. I am always most amazed by girls where it feels totally real throughout. Cambria is one of those girls.
[URL]www.divaescort.com/girls/brunette-bayswater-cambria[/URL]
Met Cambria at 830 on a Sunday night. I had been with her previously a year ago in a duo with Kendall so I knew what to expect. I had booked her specifically because I had been with Rivetta for two shots earlier in the day and needed someone up to the task.
She was dressed in a one piece frilly Danskin like thing and looked great. She is well proportioned and relatively tall, with the figure of a lovely young lady, not a skinny girl. Her face and smile remain amazing. See her video on Diva. That is spot on the real Cambria.
I had brought a Rose because I remembered that is what she had requested a year ago. And by the end of the two hours it was long gone -- when you are with Cambria it is a nonstop party of two. Flirty, sexy, wine, sex -- it's a full on GFE experience in the truest sense.
We settled in with our glasses and just chatted and flirted on the bed. So natural. Eventually we started getting more and more intimate and clothes started coming off. Of course kissing is a very intimate thing and can vary with the chemistry of you and the girl. But for us it was OMG lovely and passionate -- growing more and more passionate as the sex progressed.
We of course started with her working her way down my body to a lovely BBBJ. She did some really nice BLS and I love the part where she puts both lips on the underside and slides up and down while making eye contact. OMG. Really good. Despite being with Rivetta for two shots earlier that day I could feel some unexpected build up and decided to move to DATY. She has a lovely and tasty pussy with pronounced lips (noticing this in the majority of Ro-girls I see fwiw). My oral skills are improving but was unable to bring her to orgasm. But nonetheless we had a super nice time.
After a bit I came up for air and we did Mish and cowgirl first. The Mish was truly to die for, because she has a perfect pussy-fit for me and as a taller girl we can kiss while in Mish, which I adore. The cowgirl was quite epic as well. She of course grinds like many girls, which is more for them, than you. But she is not the lazy type. She will really get some truly solid in and out going and fuck the hell out of you such that you may cum right then and there! (You have been warned!) I do think we have some pretty strong chemistry as in cowgirl she would lean forward so we were face to face and could DFK as she rode. I've never known a girl to go out of her way initiate DFK in this position unless she has developed some amount of passion / connection.
As I had some staying power due to my earlier visit, I managed to survive the epic cowgirl and move to doggie. She likes this very much and we had a good go of it, but I wanted more Mish. So back to Mish we went and had an OMG spectacular time. Full arms extended to pump hard and deep and then on elbows face to face DFK while slowly in and out. There is nothing quite so spectacular as cumming while kissing deeply. Urgent shared hot breath and tongues and pow, pow, pow. A glorious finish.
Of course Cambria is more than just a cum and go. She is a truly lovely person and fun to be with. So we sip more wine and just chat and cuddle till our time expires. The two hours just flew by.
Later in the week I saw another 3 girls (so 5 total), and sure, each girl may stand out for one body part or one service. But for all around GFE in the truest sense, Cambria is tops. If you want to party with your hot girlfriend, and have it feel genuine, she is the one for you.
Legalizing prostitution is a good first step and last step. It is the oldest profession in the world and can never be kept down.
State owned brothels? God, no! Why do we want the government to be fucking up this anymore than what they have already done?
Governments simply need to make this legal and get out of the way. Guys and girls will figure out how to do it what comes naturally.
And there is no reason to track any of this money, any more than tracking the money spent on drinking beer or eating pork. All of these ideas come from radical feminists and I understand how most people are used to such ideas after being bombarded with them for years but they are simply put, bad ideas. Less government is always the best solution.
[QUOTE=Pistons;2313561]A problem with the renting laws in relation to p6 is that it contributes to pimping networks. Basically creating a stronger barrier for the solo entrepreneur. While the pimp networks always finds a way around these barriers.
The best way to tackle pimping would be to loosen up on these petty laws. Fully legalizing p6. Move everything into state owned brothels, and use block chain based payment systems to track where the money ends up.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Fucker2019;2313799]Legalizing prostitution is a good first step and last step. It is the oldest profession in the world and can never be kept down.
State owned brothels? God, no! Why do we want the government to be fucking up this anymore than what they have already done?
Governments simply need to make this legal and get out of the way. Guys and girls will figure out how to do it what comes naturally.
And there is no reason to track any of this money, any more than tracking the money spent on drinking beer or eating pork. All of these ideas come from radical feminists and I understand how most people are used to such ideas after being bombarded with them for years but they are simply put, bad ideas. Less government is always the best solution.[/QUOTE]Again with the "radical feminists?" Have you ever actually spoken with one? Or read what they have written?
In my experience there are 2 feminist points of view that pretty much cover it, and they are largely generational.
Feminists from the 60's and 70's tend to view prostitution as being intrinsically exploitive and sexist. Many will say women, however, shouldn't be prosecuted, because they are victims. In any case, in this view prostitution and pimping must be ended and government should definitely not be in the prostitution business.
Some feminists from the 80's and 90's have a different take. They recognize that some/most forms of sex work can be or are exploitive and sexist. But they want women to have bodily and behavioral autonomy, and tend to encourage sexuality as potentially empowering. So they want women to be protected from abuse, but also to own their own bodies. In this view prostitution must be allowed, but not pimping, and government should definitely not be in the prostitution business.
I've never heard a feminist, "radical" or otherwise, advocate for government run prostitution. Not in the USA at least.
[QUOTE=Pksimar69;2313660]I think the truth is somewhere between and we will never know. I also believe there is. Kind of platform behind but I also think there are many girls that work independent. These girls have connections with many other people that somehow work in the industry but it doesn't necessary mean they are pimped. I think that when a new girl comes to a club she can also be recommended by a WG that already works there. They probably know each other from before, they all start like that. But of course there is also this pimp organisation-platform that pushes and helps girls to get in the clubs.
There will always be a mystery how the system works, even behind the FKK and ownership but at the end of the day why should we care so much?[/QUOTE]Yes in a way, some of the girls are the platform themselves calling friends to join saying how good of business it is in german FKK.
But as for concentration for romanians, I think there is a platform since there are too many romanians in FKK to be just independently coming themselves or calling on friends to come. It is business with business model.
[QUOTE=Neurosynth;2313933]Again with the "radical feminists?" Have you ever actually spoken with one? Or read what they have written?
In my experience there are 2 feminist points of view that pretty much cover it, and they are largely generational.
Feminists from the 60's and 70's tend to view prostitution as being intrinsically exploitive and sexist. Many will say women, however, shouldn't be prosecuted, because they are victims. In any case, in this view prostitution and pimping must be ended and government should definitely not be in the prostitution business..[/QUOTE]I agree with you except for a couple of things.
If you look at some of the original sex worker rights organizations like COYOTE, they obtained significant support from feminists in the 60's and 70's. Many of those same feminists no longer support sex work, or have instead changed their support to the Nordic Model. The explanation, in my opinion, is simply that those women are much older, less attractive, and have earned significant money in the expanding fields of academia, social work, and various "think-tank" endeavors. Many younger feminists were born into wealth that was spread to youngsters at a greater pace than a few decades before. They simply have no reason to support sex work since they have access to income and wealth. The higher-income and wealthy dominate discussions of social issues in the Western World. Everyone else is too busy trying to just get by, including most hookers and Johns.
I agree that most feminists recoil at the thought of state-run, legalized brothels. I have never heard anyone support that who has really studied the issue. Sure there are ridiculous internet comments from the general public that "it works in Nevada", but they haven't really studied how much those places have declined since technology allowed women to work independently and to work in small groups during the last few decades. The legal brothels are now a relic of the industry.
While Fosta / Sesta has been a disaster in the USA, it was largely caused by the proliferation of BackPage and similar low-end advertising venues that allowed drug users and a few trafficked women to advertise. It was completely visible to the general public and was intolerable to law enforcement. So the inevitable happened and a sledgehammer came down on the industry, obviously affecting even those that stayed away from the lower-end of the scene.
It is certainly still possible to book an escort in the USA Who advertises independently, and the expensive Sugar Baby system has proliferated since Fosta / Sesta. Most guys repeat with regulars, but it is very difficult to get the same level of review information as it was before Fosta / Sesta for USA Providers. And prices are even higher than before.
My point is that there is no support that I have ever read about for state-run brothels amongst feminists, sex-workers, or Johns. In North America and Western Europe, anyway, the activity is most tolerated when it is kept out of public view (the exact opposite of state-run brothels). A minority of men and women support sex work, but they often seem to forget that and end up getting their progress knocked back a few years or decades with a sledgehammer when the scene becomes too visible. It certainly happened in the USA With Backpage causing the Fosta / Sesta laws, and almost happened in Canada with the Bedford case (but everyone was saved by the police refusal to enforce / prioritize the Nordic Model).
Not only is there no support for state-run brothels in North America amongst supporters of sex work, there was in fact a Canadian legislator who listed Germany's "mega-brothels" as a reason for Canada to not fully decriminalize sex work. The Bedford case would have decriminalized sex work if the Canadian legislature had not acted and adopted the Nordic Model.
Most traditional feminists are the enemy, but so are most religious folks, and hell, so are the majority of people who simply disapprove of sex for money, probably for no better reason than the fact that they resent anyone getting some enjoyment and / or earning a good living.
The Internet creates a distortion of like-minded people thinking they are a majority, when they are not.
[QUOTE=Neurosynth;2313933]Again with the "radical feminists?" Have you ever actually spoken with one? Or read what they have written?
In my experience there are 2 feminist points of view that pretty much cover it, and they are largely generational.
Feminists from the 60's and 70's tend to view prostitution as being intrinsically exploitive and sexist. Many will say women, however, shouldn't be prosecuted, because they are victims. In any case, in this view prostitution and pimping must be ended and government should definitely not be in the prostitution business.
Some feminists from the 80's and 90's have a different take. They recognize that some/most forms of sex work can be or are exploitive and sexist. But they want women to have bodily and behavioral autonomy, and tend to encourage sexuality as potentially empowering. So they want women to be protected from abuse, but also to own their own bodies. In this view prostitution must be allowed, but not pimping, and government should definitely not be in the prostitution business.
I've never heard a feminist, "radical" or otherwise, advocate for government run prostitution. Not in the USA at least.[/QUOTE]Prostitutes without pimps is more or less a dream, it is also really difficult to define what is a pimp, most of the Romanian girls are married or have a BF, are they pimps?
[QUOTE=Fucker2019;2313799]Legalizing prostitution is a good first step and last step. It is the oldest profession in the world and can never be kept down.
State owned brothels? God, no! Why do we want the government to be fucking up this anymore than what they have already done?
Governments simply need to make this legal and get out of the way. Guys and girls will figure out how to do it what comes naturally.
And there is no reason to track any of this money, any more than tracking the money spent on drinking beer or eating pork. All of these ideas come from radical feminists and I understand how most people are used to such ideas after being bombarded with them for years but they are simply put, bad ideas. Less government is always the best solution.[/QUOTE]I think best solution for brothel like German FKK is to install digital currency from state point of view, so state can track down the income of working girls since German official seems to be so nervous about tax issue of FKK like what happened at Artemis raid.
Since it is legal, digital currency for FKK can be develop and this way state can track down money, house can monitor girls who are popular, and also girls do not need to worry about their money being stolen in their dormitory which happened before in few FKK where girls money box was stolen and lost all the hard earning money.
[QUOTE=Pksimar69;2313660]I think the truth is somewhere between and we will never know. I also believe there is. Kind of platform behind but I also think there are many girls that work independent. These girls have connections with many other people that somehow work in the industry but it doesn't necessary mean they are pimped. I think that when a new girl comes to a club she can also be recommended by a WG that already works there. They probably know each other from before, they all start like that. But of course there is also this pimp organisation-platform that pushes and helps girls to get in the clubs.
There will always be a mystery how the system works, even behind the FKK and ownership but at the end of the day why should we care so much?[/QUOTE]Right, all we care is us securely fucking young beautiful girls one after another without too much up sell LOL!
But it is interesting to know what is going on behind FKK scene.
[QUOTE=MrHo;2313949]Yes in a way, some of the girls are the platform themselves calling friends to join saying how good of business it is in german FKK.
But as for concentration for romanians, I think there is a platform since there are too many romanians in FKK to be just independently coming themselves or calling on friends to come. It is business with business model.[/QUOTE]Did you ever stop to think Romania is one of the poorest European countries, a country with a great separation in social classes, country with a super poor subset frequently labeled as gypsies, and of these groups women are the lowest subset of privilege. These women look around for a way out and chase promises of wealth and easy money regardless of education level. Once they arrive they find themselves in the quicksand of deb and desire.
[QUOTE=Mongerer88;2313951]The Internet creates a distortion of like-minded people thinking they are a majority, when they are not.[/QUOTE]+1.
You make a lot of good points in your well articulated post. I particularly liked the last sentence. It is absolutely true that with the advent of internet and social networks, most of us live in echo chambers where we reinforce each other's opinions, to the point we are all convinced that our view is one the majority view. And we can't conceive how anyone could disagree with our collective view and how wrong they must be to be disagreeing with us.
Pay of sex is still a taboo subject at any family dinner table, office after hours drinks, college classroom, political rally, what have you. At best, it may be tolerated. Hardly any man would own up to using prostitutes. If you are a 22 year old university student, you will be considered a loser that you have to pay for sex. If you are a 30 year old corporate man, you will be considered deviant and worse. If you are a 50 year old man, you are considered a old pervert.
Even many of us might express opinions not supportive of P2P when in group circles. I personally am very careful about steering the conversation away, and will be very guarded in saying anything on this topic. Thankfully, we have forums like this to provide support and information. We owe ISG a huge amount of gratitude on that side.
It is strange but in the US now, it is easier to admit you smoke weed than to admit you paid for sex. Binge drinking and smoking nicotine have always been OK but not paid sex. Until this societal attitude changes, it is tough to see our politics allowing German style FKKs in US.