Phnom Penh

Thanks. I took one out of Martinis my first night here. The experience was okay, but nothing to get wound up about. I went back a couple of nights ago though it was pretty early (around 10) and just couldn't get excited by anyone I saw, whether Vietnamese or Khmer.

There seems to be somewhat of a disagreement about Vietnamese/Khmer girls. Some guys on this board think that the Vietnamese are by far the more greedy and commercial, while others, like Wendella, feel that they give the best service. I'm not sure which I agree with since I've not sampled the Vietnamese take out yet from here, though I did live in Hanoi for a while and had ample experience there.

I might wait until a bit later tonight and then hit Martinis. The karaoke stuff is not really my scene, here or in the Philippines.

GE

[QUOTE=GoodEnough]
There seems to be somewhat of a disagreement about Vietnamese/Khmer girls. Some guys on this board think that the Vietnamese are by far the more greedy and commercial, while others, like Wendella, feel that they give the best service. I'm not sure which I agree with since I've not sampled the Vietnamese take out yet from here, though I did live in Hanoi for a while and had ample experience there.[/QUOTE]

I think the VNs have a stereotype which is only partly deserved as I personally don't feel it makes sense to categorise a whole race. On the whole I find them more clinical, more money-orientated, and less instinctively trustworthy than the Khmer girls. But contrary to type, one of the best punts I had in PP was with a VN girl, who wasn't any of those things. In contrast, I had a VN girl maybe the 2nd night I was there who wouldn't stop talking during sex, and all of it about upgrades and so on, not sweet talk. I just put a hand up and asked her pointedly if she was Khmer or VN (as I think she knew Khmer girls rarely if ever act like this). It shut her up, thankfuly.

[QUOTE=Wendella]VN tend to be better at customer service than the Khmer girls. Not sure which ones you're getting. When in PP, I never bother with those 104 St bars, or others up there. For me it's always Martini plus exploring any new spots I've heard about. Small bars with just a few girls who may or may not be willing to go, for me, is a waste of precious time.[/QUOTE]


Exactly. My last trip I only took 2 Khmer girls back. The first was pretty good, but when I asked the other one for a blowjob, she just looked at me and said "But I'm Cambodian!" I rarely RARELY take Khmer girls out anymore unless I'm confident in their service skills. This includes a lot of questions to the girl, and just a general chemistry we have with each other inside the bar. I never have to worry about any of this bullshit when taking a VN girl.

Goodenough -- don't bother with those little bars. They suck, and not in a good way. Many girls just want you to buy them drinks all night, and they are very VERY coy about everything. I once took a girl out of Rose for longtime and when we got back to my hotel she said that she had to leave at 4 am to visit her sister. Kicked her out immediately. There are cuties in those bars but it's hit and miss with service, and many of the girls are just too lazy to be barfined and do actual work.

Stick to the places where you don't have to deal with the nonsense - Martini's, Sharkey's, and Heart of Darkness. The latter two don't really get happening until around 11 pm. Hell, I've pulled hotties out of Heart at 3 am. You can go in, talk to the girl for a while, and go back to your hotel if you want. No worries. Hell, even Walkabout has a few cuties (VN) upstairs. PP is a good place for mongering. On my first visit I absolutely hated it, but I've been four times now, and I've learned to love it.

The blow job thing is cultural all right, the khmer are very conservative. Things willl change slowly but this is a country where most marriages are still arranged.

If a girl is no longer a virgin, or has a child out of wedlock or has even been divorced then she is a srey koich.

A broken woman or taxi girl.

Of course there is an incredible double standard because all the men play up and if they have money they have multiple wives.

The viets on the other hand seem to have a tradition of blow jobs, people will tell you that they have practiced since childhood with brother, uncle, father whoever-I do belive this is true, however uncomfortable it may make one.

Western type age of consent laws are fairly recent even in our countries, they don't apply here to locals.

As for bad service by khmers, well I don't think the level of service is worse than any other country really. Those who live here have no complaints but we do have much better radar and we do go to places like eden and LCC, why others dislike aggressive service providers beats me.

The golden boss has some lovely girls, further along the riverside from 102 and the casa club near what phnom has seriuosly baeutiful girls including many viets. The casa disco doesn't really get going until midnight but it is a great venue, the boss kicks off earleir.

The rock nightclub on moniving, not far from martinis has a very good karaoke section with tons of girls and if one can speak khmer then the karaokes have many very willing gems. The X2 chain seems very popular and karaoke girls don't have the BJ problem I am told.

If one lives in PP and speaks khmer then every woman is available really, the choice is endless.

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last night i decided that i would check along the river for these "country girls" about whom i had heard from others, and assuming that would not work out, would head to martinis and then, if that failed, back to golden vine to grab the cuties i had taken before.

i went for an hour's stroll along the river to the quai and though there were several adorable females sitting and chatting along the wall, i got no particular encouragement from any of them; a few tentative smiles perhaps, but no eye contact and no tacit signal that these girls were looking for anything but a little quiet time along the river. i did get asked by one of the motorcycle taxi guys there if i wanted a girl, but didn't pursue it. i think i will check out these scene again this evening just in case i went there on an off night, but i don't think there's any joy to be had.

yesterday, while having lunch, there were two very pretty girls who walked into the restaurant shortly after i sat down. i was at an outside table and they selected the table adjacent to mine. i started to talk to them on some pretext or other and they both came to join me at my invitation. one was a university student and the other slightly older, and had finished her studies. i was more or less working on the older girl and we were getting along fine, when suddenly she glanced at her watch, said something to her friend and then turned to me and said: "i have to go inside the restaurant. my fiance will be passing here in a few minutes and i don't want him to see me at the table with you." then she told me that though she was "taken" her friend was not. i decided not to pursue it any further. it had not cost me anything but a few minutes of my time and i enjoyed the conversation. it did however raise the issue for me of how easy it might be to find "normal" women if i had more time. i don't think, at least based on that encounter, that it would be very difficult.

i got to martinis a bit early again, mainly because i was bored and wanted to hang out in a different neighborhood. at 9 o'clock there were a dozen or more ladies rep001tered around, and i got approached by several, including a mamasan, but declined all invitations and decided to sit at the bar, drink a beer and watch the movie sporadically.

by 10, a steady stream of new girls had started to arrive and there were several who caught my eye. one khmer girl in a red dress was especially appealing and i watched as she went into the disco. i followed her in, partially because i had not gone there before and partially to see who else might be lurking on the dance floor. the disco is small, dark, and not very appealing, and my nostrils were immediately assailed by the unmistakable odor of grass, which surprised me slightly. the red dress girl was dancing, but i approached her and asked if she would have a drink with me. she said she would meet me outside in ten minutes.

i left, sat again in the bar area, and noticed three very pretty women by the pool table. true to her word, ms. red dress came out about ten minutes latter and she was indeed lovely. twenty years old and a student. but there was simply no chemistry, and she was more interested in dancing, so i sent her back inside and started to talk to one of the three lovelies by the pool table. one, named linda, was simply gorgeous. a khmer, nineteen years old. again though, while she was friendly and obviously ready to boogie, the chemistry just wasn't there, and i figured that if i took her she would want to leave immediately afterwards to rejoin her friends.

it was shortly afterward that i noticed diana, a beautiful, short khmer girl. we started talking and i decided this time, i was not going to leave much to chance. over a drink, during which she was touching me constantly, i asked her about khmer girls and "yum-yum." she told me that some liked it and some did not, but that she "really liked it." that was all it took. we left about 11. she was extremely cute, bubbly, and just fun to be around and i was starving, so i took her out for a late dinner before heading back to the room.

the subsequent performance(s) were, if not outstanding, certainly high grade. true to her word, the oral sex was enthusiastic, lengthy and unprompted. when i switched to daty, she went wild and that's when it all started to get intense and fun. all in all, an excellent, inexpensive evening; one that i think i will repeat tonight. i have her cell phone number, and she's more than willing to return. on the other hand, i think i've about figured out martinis and how to work it, so i might just go fishing there again.

ge

[QUOTE=Phil Istine] Those who live here have no complaints but we do have much better radar and we do go to places like eden and LCC, why others dislike aggressive service providers beats me.

The golden boss has some lovely girls, further along the riverside from 102 and the casa club near what phnom has seriuosly baeutiful girls including many viets. The casa disco doesn't really get going until midnight but it is a great venue, the boss kicks off earleir.

[/QUOTE]

Thanks Phil. Of course, as indicated, I don't live here and speak no Khmer, so my options are much more limited than yours. I've seen several references to LCC. Can you please explain what it is and how to find it? Regarding the Golden Boss, can you provide a little information on this as well? Is it a bar. A karaoke-type place? Will any tuk-tuk driver be able to find it.

Thanks for the information. It's appreciated greatly.

GE

There is a huge difference between Vietnamese girls in Phnom Penh and ones in Hanoi. They may as well be from different countries. Aside from cultural differences, and there are already drastic differences between the north and south of Vietnam (where all these girls who are in PP come from) -- there is also the way they're trafficked -- the vast majority come from poor parts of the Mekong Delta region, and many if not most (if not nearly all) go through a kind of pipeline. Keep in mind, they're going to Cambodia for the express purpose of working in the sex trade. So where ever they end up, they get trained. That's how they end up with their blow-job skills.

So they actually tend to be 'better performing' because they've been trained to be, and also more hardcore/cutthroat/businesslike/etc. because there's no gray lines for them -- this is purely business for them. No illusions. They didn't come to Cambodia looking for a foreign husband. They came to make money. I think if the Khmer girls had to come illegally into the country and were at the mercy of a system that was intent on turning them into 'good performers' then they'd be as good as the Vietnamese at what they do.

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You guys are causing me to re-think tonight's program. I think I'll try instead to visit LCC, if I can find it, the Golden Boss, if I can find it, and perhaps Tahiti Eden, since I know where to find that. Might also try Casa Disco if my aging body can stay awake long enough without falling apart. Somewhere in there, I need to work in a visit to the Heart of Darkness since it's the only place I meant to go that I haven't yet been.

Just had an offer from an adorable little waitress to be my Khmer teacher. When I told her I would only take lessons if we could live together for a while, she asked me immediately how much I would pay her to live with me. I admire these ladies for always wanting to know the commercial implications first. I told her we would have to negotiate. When I left she called me "Darling." Must be because of my youthful good looks.

GE

LCC is le cyrcee,an acronym i invented as an alternative to the FCC.

The golden boss is north along the river a few hundred meters from st 102,motos will know.

It just a disco I think,casa is close by near wat phnom where there is a karaoke and casino as well.

Since I have an early flight tomorrow back to the Philippines through Singapore, and since I'm too old for all nighters anymore, last night I decided, would be my last out on the town.

I started out at what has now become the familiar Sharkey's about 9, not with any great expectations of meeting someone, but because it's a decent place to listen to music, and I wanted Tex-Mex food. Unsurprisingly, I guess, I met another expat, who has lived here for five years or so, and was more than willing to share his perspectives on the city. He was an interesting guy, who often travels on his motorcycle to the provinces, and who seems content with his life here. His warnings to me sounded pretty much identical to those I give to newbies in the Philippines--cautions about not taking anything with the ladies seriously since in the end it's all about the money. We passed a pleasant hour or so comparing notes between the two countries and aside from the languages, from an expat point of view, the differences appeared few.

About thirty minutes into this conversation, I saw what had to be one of the most beautiful women I have ever seen -- About 5'7", dressed in very short shorts, with legs that wouldn't quit and a rack that was beautifully accentuated by the tight shirt she was wearing. I smiled, she smiled, came over, and had a soda. We spent a little while talking intermittently, and while she was truly gorgeous, little alarm bells were going off in what's left of my brain, warning me that she would probably look at sex pretty much as a spectator sport. Though my new expat friend said that he might be willing to spend $20 just to see her naked--and I can understand why--I decided to pass, since I've already had the starfish experience here and I didn't want to go through it again, no matter how beautiful the starfish.

After finishing the chicken quesadillas and saying goodbye to my new acquaintance, I decided to head out to Heart of Darkness. I knew it was too early, at 10:30, but I wanted to see the place. It's probably one of the more tasteful boites I've seen here, and it's the only place where I got frisked very thoroughly. The place was pretty much empty, with a one beautiful girl at the bar. However, she was obviously with one of the guys shooting pool, and I remember all of the warnings about the potential for unpleasantness at this bar, so I sat around, had a Corona, and left, thinking perhaps to return later when things got a little more exciting. The bar waitress explained that since it had rained most of the day, people might be late arriving.

Started out for the Golden Boss since the tuk-tuk driver said he knew exactly where it was, but changed my mind at the last second and decided to go to Martinis first. Why, I don't know, since I had taken a girl from there the night before as reported. The place was, while not packed, well populated with Vietnamese and Cambodia ladies, and I was sitting at the bar, thinking about what I was going to do. All of a sudden I became aware of a blur out of the corner of my eye, which turned out to be Diana, of last night's fame, running over and hugging me like we were married and had been unwillingly separated for the last several months.

I was not particularly eager to repeat the experience, though it had been excellent, and started to think of a range of excuses as to why it was not a good night for me. But then, she started fooling with my dick under the bar, stroking my leg, and I started to reconsider, switching brains while doing so from the big to the small. In the end, decided "What the hell" and took her back for the night which was, if anything, more intense and enjoyable than the night before.

I never did make it to LCC, the Golden Boss, Tahiti Eden and some of the others, but I've got no regrets. I had a great time and got to see most of the places I had intended to see. I think I'll come back in six months or so and perhaps pick up where I left off. Next time, now that I know the town slightly, I think I'll rent a motorbike.

Thanks again to all who helped make this a memorable trip.

GE

Damn, I tried to make a last minute suggestion to GoodEnough last night hoping to catch him before he left. It looks like it didn't post. Internet was very funky last night, couldn't connect to many sites from here. Oh well. The suggestion was to not go to Casa DISCO but rather to go upstairs to the karaoke between 8.30-9.30 -- its upstairs from the hotel lobby. As you get to the top of the stairs you see the holding room for all the girls. There'd be way way way more available girls right here in this room around this time than would ever appear all night in the disco downstairs. The karaoke would be very happy to let you just view all the girls in a lineup and pick one, and then you could not even stay in the karaoke but take her directly back to your hotel if you want -- just pay a 'barfine' of $15 or so. And if you went into the karaoke, you could just take a room, order 2 drinks and try to get to know the girl before deciding -- the room cost would be the same $15, and then there'd be no barfine if you decided to take her out. You'd just have to pay for your 2 drinks. And no need to turn on the karaoke if you don't want to. Also you mentioned stopping in at Casa later -- if you went to the karaoke much after 9.30, it'd be diminishing returns -- the best girls get picked earliest, of course, so by late hours you'd be looking at the leftovers.

Oh well, next time.

Thanks Wendella for the thought, but I'm happy enough with the way things worked out. I've basically concluded that there's not a lot of difference among the various hostess bars, and not too much difference, at least in terms of quality, between Sharkey's and Martinis. I'm sure the karaoke places would have been more of same and, as it is, the choice was plenty broad enough for me.

For those who may be contemplating coming here for the first time, and who don't mind spending a bit on a hotel (this is not a put down of those who don't fall within this category) I strongly recommend the place that I've been staying for the past seven nights. Bougainvillier is right on Sisowath Quay, in the midst of lots of cafes and late night bars (DV8 is right around the corner). More importantly, it's just a great hotel. The service is excellent and extremely pleasant and the rooms are spacious, immaculate and attractive. I'm in a small suite which costs $96 a night, double occupancy, with a full breakfast included. Single occupancy for the same suite is $84, but the hotel will charge you the difference if you come back with a lady. Of course she gets breakfast too so it's not a total loss.

I had internet in my room which is allegedly $5 extra per day, but the hotel did not charge me. It worked reasonably well for the duration of my stay but was a bit slow at times.

Having lived for years in Paris, I'm pretty much of a Francophile in all respects, and I guess the fact that the hotel is French owned, and operated in very much of a French/Cambodian-colonial style, attracts me as well. For anyone who may be interested, the phone number is: +855-23-220-528 and the email address is: [email]bougainvillierhotel@bougainvillierhotel.com[/email]. It's worth every cent of the cost. Thanks to Giotto of Thailand fame for recommending the place.

GE

[QUOTE=GoodEnough]

Having lived for years in Paris, I'm pretty much of a Francophile in all respects, and I guess the fact that the hotel is French owned, and operated in very much of a French/Cambodian-colonial style, attracts me as well. For anyone who may be interested, the phone number is: +855-23-220-528 and the email address is: [email]bougainvillierhotel@bougainvillierhotel.com[/email]. It's worth every cent of the cost. Thanks to Giotto of Thailand fame for recommending the place.

GE[/QUOTE]
I stayed in the Bougainvillier end of last year, and whilst I mostly agree to what you have said (although I left after two nights, building next to Bouganivillier was under construction and the noise from 8am to 5 pm was unbearable) I should add that the Bougainvillier at least at that time was not that girl friendly. They demand an ID, even if it is absolutely clear that the girl is of legal age; and whilst this sounds pretty reasonable most girls at Sharky's and Martini's (especially the Viet ones) doesn't have one.
Other than that it's been quiet, clean and pleasant alright and the staff was sympathetic with my problems about the construction noise.

Folks,
I gotta head back to Phnom Penh soon and I'm up to some new experiences besides the usual known Highlights.
Last time one of the Tuk-Tuk drivers recommended to look for girls in the area around the Monument. That Tuk-Tuk driver spoke barely English and was a rather questionable figure, but after awhile I agreed and he took me to some ragged-down construction near the monument.
My alarm bells went off, but since I was already there I decided to give it a try - I do not carry a wallet or a phone in PNH and less than 50 $ in cash, so what the heck.
I was asked to sit down in some small and really dirty parlour while the Tuk-Tuk driver conversed with two pimps. No girls to be seen.
They then ushered a girl in - late 20, considerable Overweight and pimples. Total turn-off, I politely refused.
After another 10 minutes as I just got ready to go they showed another girl in which wasn't particulary my style but worth a look - about 21 to 24, slightly chubby, but enormously dressed up with Skirt & stockings, hair dyed dark blonde and hardened like a rock with hairspray.
I showed cautious interest and was offered the girl for 60 $.
Of course I declined (the Tuk-Tuk driver drove me the night before and had to know that I know a bit of the city and the going prices) and started to go. The girl was offered again for 35 $ (which is still too much, on a scale from 1 to 6, 1 being the best, she was a 3). I got out and actually expected trouble which then never came.
Driver tried to talk me into it, but I made clear that I want to go to Martini's THAT moment or never, so eventually got going.
Still, on the way I saw a few girls walking in the shades and may have been interested but figured that Imight have stretched my luck already that night.Does anyone know whether there is something worth going for in the Monument area ?
Any explanation for the outrageous price ? Even Viet pimps never tried to charge me more than 25 before.
Grateful for any insight by the locals, LOL. Kennny