Angeles City

[QUOTE=NapaSlapper;1580457]Robbaf,

I'm slightly amused to see what you find so good about a foreigner trying to take on the establishment.


Do not ever think that foreigners have rights in the PI, especially against pinoys in high places who have guns.[/QUOTE]Napa,

Are you another incarnation of Matther Cobb a recent poster since banned as you seem to be all doom and gloom about AC (as MC was) giving us information that many would not know (as MC did though a lot was misinformation) and you have 8 FRs but an AC veteran.

I also like to see the bars owners take on the corrupt police. If the raid is legally warranted so be it. If not why can't someone have the right to file a complaint. There was a report on Margarita Station recently about bar owners complaining to the Chief of Police about his men entering bars, drinking / eating and not paying. So it their right to complain if the facts support the complaint as it seems so for Honey Kos.

[QUOTE=KeyMaster;1580320]I've had my best experiences in Manila and Makati in terms of finding some awesome talent and experiences. That said, I don't think it's easy for most people to maneuver. For the areas that most of us will monger, it's somewhat limited in a lot of ways. It's a little more time consuming and think the costs definitely start going up when you start putting EDSA and Burgos are into the equation with a slightly higher risk that the woman might be a real pro. They may try to change the terms of the arrangement once the deed is over the first time.
It just seems more relaxed there. You just have to balance out how you feel out in the city areas of Manila and Makati. Walking around the area of LA Cafe probably not in most people's interest here, although I do it a lot but I'm not usually impaired in any way by alcohol or other. I'm not saying bad things couldn't happen to me even then, just think it's probably best for a good amount of people here not to do much walking around the streets there.

I just don't think keeping Angeles out of the equation for most people traveling once or twice a year is feasible for the most part if you are trying to get the most bang for your money. Plus Angeles has more daytime options. I have not gone the online DIA or other routes so can't comment on those.[/QUOTE]I hear you, and that was my original impression. Its just that this long string of posts is saying that the "more laid back, point and shoot" atmosphere of AC isn't true anymore.

[QUOTE=NattyBumpo;1580142]I disagree with you about supply and demand. In the PI, Thailand, and Indonesia supply exceeds demand by a wide margin. There are so many women in the P4 P market that most can't lasso a customer every night. Now really good looking girls are always in demand. That is another story, but the average bar girl in AC or Subic is lucky to get 3 customers a week. And then there is low season when times are lean and an average girl is lucky to land one customer a week. Have you seen the dormitories these girls live in? They don't live this way because they want to and are frugal. They have no other economic choice than to live the way they do because of the over supply of available working girls results in their low income. The over supply is why prices are still relatively low.

.[/QUOTE]The determination of supply and demand, as in economics, is a complicated matter. In my last visit to AC in 2007 the place was abuzz with activity. If a head count was done though I would say there were more providers than mongers. Nevertheless, the quantifying of supply and demand is not necessarily a matter of numbers of visible partakers at any one time, the quantities vary. Remember, for all the mongers who are on the ground at a particular time there are many others who travel to the Philippines who are back home in the US and Europe awaiting their turn. My take is that a decision on either side is a matter of speculation in the absence of a study of which I am unaware. What I am certain about is that the demand for doable providers (which is only what I am interested in) outstrips the supply. As far as the cost is concerned, this is influenced by the standard and cost of living in the country. The US, Canada and Europe for example are more expensive for obvious reasons. In Brazil the standard and cost of living rose tremendously in the past ten years or so and so did the cost of P $P.

It is not hard to figure out whether there is more supply or demand. It comes down to whether the price is going up or down. Everything else is just speculation! There was speculation that after the typhoon, the supply side would go up dramatically. Speculation that doe not seem to have happened yet. BF remains about the same, other than increases to cover the cost of law enforcement agencies.

Some will argue whatever but in the end the market dictates the price for value.

All I can say about supply and demand in PI bars is anecdotal based what I saw on the ground in AC, Subic, and Makati. The demand aggregate is seasonal. Supply is pretty constant except around holidays when many girls go home to be with their families. I was in the PI in late April 2014 which is a transition point from high to low season. In most of the bars I frequented at this time the ratio of girls to customers was at least 3 or 4 to 1. For example in Tao at around 10 pm there were at least 30 girls and maybe 10 customers. In Grand Pharaoh (Golden Nile) there were at least 40 girls and maybe 10 customers. In Club Asia there were at least 30 girls and maybe 10 customers. In Shipwrecked (One Eyed Wench) there were maybe 20 girls and probably 10 customers. Now my numbers are raw estimates, but they are good enough to make my point that supply far exceeds demand on any given night and that whenever I walked into an AC Fields bar there were literally scores of available girls to choose from. The question then becomes how many of these available girls were shagable IMHO. In a good bar like GP for example there were at least 10 very attractive girls and a couple of stunners. In a bad bar the number of shagable girls is zero. Tastes vary though on who is attractive.

Additionally I found even more skewed ratios is Subic and Makati. For example I went to Alaska bar one night around 9 pm. There had to be at least 25 girls there and I was the only punter! Now that is skewed. LOL. The girls swarmed me.

In Makati, I spent a lot of time in Stardust where there was at least a 4 to 1 ratio of girls to customers. And lastly, in Bottoms bar, my favorite bar in the PI this trip, there were at least 40 girls and maybe 10 customers while I was in the bar from 9pm to 11pm on more than one night. Now all this is anecdotal, but my rough numbers are accurate.

One final thought: I did not stick around the bars to see the final tallies of how many girls were eventually barfinned on a given evening. There is continual flow of punters entering and leaving bars all night long so the ratio may vary through the course of the evening and the cumulative number of potential customers rises while the number of girls lessens as girls are barfined, but all I care about is the number of bar girls and the available quality when I am on the hunt in prime time. Consistently I saw many, many more girls than punters in most bars and focusing in on say Grand Phaaoh (GN), the number of really attractive and available girls was 10 out of 40 girls total, in my opinion.

Thus I am still pretty sure that many girls do not get barfinned on any given night. Furthermore, as I walked up and down Fields Walking Street I was struck by the low number of punters out there. This is why I conclude it is a buyers market with supply vastly outnumbering demand.

[QUOTE=Dg8787;1580735]It is not hard to figure out whether there is more supply or demand. It comes down to whether the price is going up or down. Everything else is just speculation! There was speculation that after the typhoon, the supply side would go up dramatically. Speculation that doe not seem to have happened yet. BF remains about the same, other than increases to cover the cost of law enforcement agencies.

Some will argue whatever but in the end the market dictates the price for value.[/QUOTE]The law of supply and demand assumes that the market is efficient. That means, the prices will rise or drop until the sweet spot is reached.

But the bar fine is fixed, isn't it? Or is the bar fine negotiable. If the bar fine is fixed, than the laws of supply and demand don't really work that well.

[QUOTE=Manny51;1580768]The law of supply and demand assumes that the market is efficient. That means, the prices will rise or drop until the sweet spot is reached.

But the bar fine is fixed, isn't it? Or is the bar fine negotiable. If the bar fine is fixed, than the laws of supply and demand don't really work that well.[/QUOTE]The law works perfect. Willing seller. Willing buyer. The bar may have a fixed price just as the buyer may have a fixed price. You as buyer do not have to buy. The market is efficient with plenty of supply.

No need to over think this. You want poon? Plenty available. Price is within my target range.

[QUOTE=Dg8787;1580823]The law works perfect. Willing seller. Willing buyer. The bar may have a fixed price just as the buyer may have a fixed price. You as buyer do not have to buy. The market is efficient with plenty of supply.

No need to over think this. You want poon? Plenty available. Price is within my target range.[/QUOTE]I am not overthinking this. You are oversimplifying it.

"Willing buyer, willing seller." All that you are saying is that it is an open market. But if prices are fixed, than its not necessarily an efficient free market.

This isn't a small detail, this is the heart of the issue. People are saying that quality and service are down, and that its not "worth it" anymore. What they are really trying to say, is that even with the lower price, the quality of service is not up to par GIVEN WHAT THEY ARE ASKING FOR. I am sure that if the bar fine were negotiable, people would again say that AC is a good value destination. When people are saying that they would rather go to Manila, what they are saying is that they are willing to pay more because the service is better. The price is right.

For every service, whether the girl is smoking hot are just above average, GFE or not, there is an efficient price point at which the buyer is "satisfied. " When you have to pay the same no matter what, like paying the same ticket price for big and small movies, that's when guys complain.

[QUOTE=Manny51;1580825]I am not overthinking this. You are oversimplifying it.

"Willing buyer, willing seller." All that you are saying is that it is an open market. But if prices are fixed, than its not necessarily an efficient free market.

This isn't a small detail, this is the heart of the issue. People are saying that quality and service are down, and that its not "worth it" anymore. What they are really trying to say, is that even with the lower price, the quality of service is not up to par GIVEN WHAT THEY ARE ASKING FOR. I am sure that if the bar fine were negotiable, people would again say that AC is a good value destination. When people are saying that they would rather go to Manila, what they are saying is that they are willing to pay more because the service is better. The price is right.

For every service, whether the girl is smoking hot are just above average, GFE or not, there is an efficient price point at which the buyer is "satisfied. " When you have to pay the same no matter what, like paying the same ticket price for big and small movies, that's when guys complain.[/QUOTE]With all due respect most things in life are simple. The heart of the matter is I want to get laid and what is the cost and is it available with reasonable effort. Looks and service are subjective. YMMV. I don't place a lot of value in members ratings, since we don't know the conditions and environments, social economics, psychology and / or physical nature of the monger / member.

Yesterday price like everything else is yesterday's price. There are members here that would still complain prices are high even if they were rolled backed to 15 years ago.

I am going there to get laid! Not to analyze the crap out of it. Next thing you know someone is going to measure the cost of stokes per peso!

[QUOTE=Dg8787;1580836]With all due respect most things in life are simple. The heart of the matter is I want to get laid and what is the cost and is it available with reasonable effort. Looks and service are subjective. YMMV. I don't place a lot of value in members ratings, since we don't know the conditions and environments, social economics, psychology and / or physical nature of the monger / member.

Yesterday price like everything else is yesterday's price. There are members here that would still complain prices are high even if they were rolled backed to 15 years ago.

I am going there to get laid! Not to analyze the crap out of it. Next thing you know someone is going to measure the cost of stokes per peso![/QUOTE]But the whole thread of conversation was about changes in the AC scene! If you don't care, and are happy to just be able to get laid at all, then why did you even bother to enter the conversation?

[QUOTE=NattyBumpo;1580749] Tastes vary though on who is attractive.

[/QUOTE]That statement alone hits the nail right on the head. Price really doesn't matter if you want it bad enough. And our tastes are all very different. Just take a look through the photo gallery, plenty of girls (body types) there that I don't find the least bit attractive, but based on the text the person who posted them was very happy. All of our ideas about what's a "stunner" and what's a "2 bagger" is highly subjective.

Case in point: last year I spoon fed a girl to another ISG'are, was an 8 in my book, a 23 year old 40 kg spinner, but he turned her down (and cheap fuck didn't even give her jeepny fare to get home). Later that same day I seen him with a 60+ kg 40 ish year old that looked like a bull dog; not something I'd ever be interested in and yet he was the picture of happiness with her. We met again a few days later and he was still seeing her. He then told me he likes big (read fat, not just chubby) girls. Any age, 18 to 50 was what he told me.

So even if our collective opinion here on the board is that the quality is going down in AC, there's still plenty of punters who'll barfine even the "ugliest" and "chubbiest" (is that a word, LOL) of girls. I doubt AC is any danger of rolling up the side walks and going out of business soon. Speaking of sidewalks, does anyone think the city fathers would have invested in re-paving walking street if they were thinking of shutting it down? IMHO the bars are there to stay, raids will continue as always, either driven for financial gain by the police, by NGO pressure or as a means of a takeover from other bar owners (with the police being in it), the supply of girls will be there as long the economy in the Phils remains suppressed and the "quality" will ebb and flow like the tides.

[QUOTE=Manny51;1580842]But the whole thread of conversation was about changes in the AC scene! If you don't care, and are happy to just be able to get laid at all, then why did you even bother to enter the conversation?[/QUOTE]I am interested in getting laid and the price / value point. The posting has been more the "sky is falling" and not the same anymore. Then it got analytical. I only stated my point of view and what concerns me. I don't care about the so called "changes" as I haven't seen it nor have I experienced it there.

[QUOTE=Dg8787;1580863]I only stated my point of view and what concerns me. I don't care about the so called "changes" as I haven't seen it nor have I experienced it there.[/QUOTE]Fine, then say THAT. But your ACTUAL post in tone was something alone the lines of "you guys don't know how to enjoy life, blah blah. ".

[QUOTE=Manny51;1580887]Fine, then say THAT. But your ACTUAL post in tone was something alone the lines of "you guys don't know how to enjoy life, blah blah. ".[/QUOTE]I didn't say that. I understand now that some people rather disect, analyze and chart for enjoyment along with being an alarmist.

Some people that is.

[QUOTE=WickedRoger;1580695]Napa,

You have 8 FRs but an AC veteran.

I also like to see the bars owners take on the corrupt police. If the raid is legally warranted so be it. If not why can't someone have the right to file a complaint. There was a report on Margarita Station recently about bar owners complaining to the Chief of Police about his men entering bars, drinking / eating and not paying. So it their right to complain if the facts support the complaint as it seems so for Honey Kos.[/QUOTE]Wicked Roger,

I was not aware that every long time visitor to the PI had to be a member of Internationalsexguide and have many posts on said site.

To like the bar owners taking on the police is one thing, to actually do it and not end up dead is another thing all together especially in Angeles city where foreign deaths are so common and life is so cheap.

Eight weeks ago someone else thought they could take on the establishment in PI and alas he is dead now, as we are not allowed to post names or links to other sites ill let you use google to see if I'm right or wrong, oh I forgot, I could not know any thing as I only got a few posts.