German FKK Clubs - Lounge and chat area

[QUOTE=Pessimist;2377042]This YouGov poll shows only a small difference in the percent who support and those who are against.

And this is in US, a more conservative nation on sexual mores than Germany or other EU nations.

Even among women, there is a lot more support than your 0. 1%.

Prostitution and pimping have become dirty words. My own experience with American women especially younger generation is that many are relatively cool to the idea of receiving gifts and allowances and other goodies in an explicit exchange for sex, as long as they like the man OK. In the past, any exchange of sex for pay would be considered prostitution and in turn disgusting and amoral and criminal but those attitudes have shifted in my personal experience.[/QUOTE]Yeah I agree with this. As I've said I've been doing Seeking Arrangement and been with several girls who are clearly not escorts. But are cool having a great time and see the "gift" at the end as just a nice bonus! I've also been coaching some girls. They aren't sure how or when to ask about money. They are just noobs figuring it out. Only the 34 year old divorcee I've been coaching is reticent to go to the room. The younger girls drop right into the idea of casual sex for money — as Long as its never spelled out quid pro quo.

[QUOTE=Pessimist;2377042]This YouGov poll shows only a small difference in the percent who support and those who are against.

And this is in US, a more conservative nation on sexual mores than Germany or other EU nations.

Even among women, there is a lot more support than your 0. 1%.

Prostitution and pimping have become dirty words. My own experience with American women especially younger generation is that many are relatively cool to the idea of receiving gifts and allowances and other goodies in an explicit exchange for sex, as long as they like the man OK. In the past, any exchange of sex for pay would be considered prostitution and in turn disgusting and amoral and criminal but those attitudes have shifted in my personal experience.[/QUOTE][URL]https://today.yougov.com/topics/politics/articles-reports/2016/03/10/prostitution[/URL]

Sorry, the link was not posted earlier.

I agree with Pessimist and Steve on the point that new generation (millennial) can very well accept the ideal of gift and allowance in exchange for sex. That is why I said in one of my previous posts that sugar baby scene is the future of mongering, particularly in the countries where prostitution is illegal like USA.

With regards to the future of German sex industry, I think that the core problem is that those politicians are fighting a defenseless enemy, the sex industry which doesn't have any organization representing them politically unlike say USA. German sex industry with annual revenue of about 15 billions euro doesn't have its single political lobby group or its trade union representing the industry and every FKK club, brothel, monger and so on are on their own. Vast majority of the German parliamentarians are not die-hard opponents of prostitution and they can be either for Nordic model or against Nordic model. But if they don't face any resistance from sex industry, they will go along with a few die-hard politicians who strongly oppose prostitution and want to adopt Nordic model. This is very dangerous for sex industry which may not survive this time.

In term of the article quoted by Kuni042, it is an article published in year 2013. Time has changed a lot.

*.

[QUOTE=MaxSquatter;2376498]What if the beard is a well maintained facial beard? In the united states beards are trendy and girls like them. Do you think shaved faces are preferred by most girls at FKK's against good beards?[/QUOTE]I tried well groomed beard last year, like many guys in USA. Few FKK as well as normal girls loved the look and / or the tickles it gave them during kissing and DATY, but most hated it (cited reasons eg chances of scratches and residual bacteria etc etc besides the silly tickles they didn't like). So I would say it depends, if you find few girls that you like are liking your beard that's all it matters to you. Same as in normal life. But I wouldn't go to another FKK trip with any facial or pubic hair, to be on the safe side to maximize my chances of getting good services with my clean look. Some Romanian girls even suggested to shave my chest hair as their boyfriends, brothers and fathers are doing nowadays, which sounded too extreme to me.

How do you go about messaging them and getting their attention that there will be a gift without saying it explicitly and thereby turning them off?

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2377050]Yeah I agree with this. As I've said I've been doing Seeking Arrangement and been with several girls who are clearly not escorts. But are cool having a great time and see the "gift" at the end as just a nice bonus! I've also been coaching some girls. They aren't sure how or when to ask about money. They are just noobs figuring it out. Only the 34 year old divorcee I've been coaching is reticent to go to the room. The younger girls drop right into the idea of casual sex for money as Long as its never spelled out quid pro quo.[/QUOTE]

Even good beards probably do more harm than good in an FKK where everyone is a stranger. The hygiene and dirty factor is more of a concern I guess if you are an unknown to the girls.

[QUOTE=Gino02;2377252]I tried well groomed beard last year, like many guys in USA. Few FKK as well as normal girls loved the look and / or the tickles it gave them during kissing and DATY, but most hated it (cited reasons eg chances of scratches and residual bacteria etc etc besides the silly tickles they didn't like). So I would say it depends, if you find few girls that you like are liking your beard that's all it matters to you. Same as in normal life. But I wouldn't go to another FKK trip with any facial or pubic hair, to be on the safe side to maximize my chances of getting good services with my clean look. Some Romanian girls even suggested to shave my chest hair as their boyfriends, brothers and fathers are doing nowadays, which sounded too extreme to me.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=MaxSquatter;2377257]How do you go about messaging them and getting their attention that there will be a gift without saying it explicitly and thereby turning them off?[/QUOTE]There are three types of girls on Seeking. 1-Straight up escorts. These are easy to spot because they immediately want to text you and talk about the gift. 2- Girls who are doing this for extra income and have convinced themselves it differs from escorting (and actually it does. An escort will charge you to pay for her dinner. LOL. 3- Newbies trying to figure it out.

In the category of 2 and 3 you get into real conversations. Anything from 20 messages to hundreds. (I have two girls that I have over 500 messages with). Somewhere in the conversation you will start talking about where to eat dinner. So you throw in that xxx is near my hotel. Which clearly is broaching the subject. Best if you can get to text or WhatsApp before discussing dollars.

You can either discuss it online "I always hate this part but is there some particular allowance / gift that seems right to you"?

I prefer when possible to actually discuss at last minute before going to the room. Whisper to her "hey I want to get out of here? If we head back to the room I will want to give you a gift. Did you have something in mind?

You are in both your best and worst position to negotiate here. Worst if you like her and would pay anything. Best if you are prepared to walk she's hopefully found you a fun date and will give you a good price. I like this because u have both had a fair assessment of the goods. She won’t go with u if she doesn’t like u at least some and the dollars will tell how much (and is a true number 2 or 3 girl) And u know what u are willing to pay. I had hoped for and got $300 with my Colombian hottie below - but the second I met her I knew I was willing to pay $400+ if necessary.

Best negotiating line ever with hat tip to Marelobo Mex. I use the above line on my Miami hottie after 3 hours of drinks and dancing (no gift so far) when she says $400. I say "Oh baby that makes me sad. That's the "I don't want to go with you price". I thought you liked me?

Boom. Ok $300. Ok let's go babe! So I spent 4 hours including room time for $300. And she was smokin hot!

Thanks for your advice. Very interesting. My issue is sending the initial message to seem legit and desirable without seeming desperate. Your idea is treat it as a dinner date first but how do you stand out from all the others to get that date? I think you are right about waiting to discuss money because that is a turn off to most. It just seems like a struggle getting attention on that site even though I am fairly young and in good shape. Thanks for your help!

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2377343]There are three types of girls on Seeking. 1-Straight up escorts. These are easy to spot because they immediately want to text you and talk about the gift. 2- Girls who are doing this for extra income and have convinced themselves it differs from escorting (and actually it does. An escort will charge you to pay for her dinner. LOL. 3- Newbies trying to figure it out.

In the category of 2 and 3 you get into real conversations. Anything from 20 messages to hundreds. (I have two girls that I have over 500 messages with). Somewhere in the conversation you will start talking about where to eat dinner. So you throw in that xxx is near my hotel. Which clearly is broaching the subject. Best if you can get to text or WhatsApp before discussing dollars.

You can either discuss it online "I always hate this part but is there some particular allowance / gift that seems right to you"?

I prefer when possible to actually discuss at last minute before going to the room. Whisper to her "hey I want to get out of here? If we head back to the room I will want to give you a gift. Did you have something in mind?

You are in both your best and worst position to negotiate here. Worst if you like her and would pay anything. Best if you are prepared to walk she's hopefully found you a fun date and will give you a good price. I like this because u have both had a fair assessment of the goods. She wont go with u if she doesnt like u at least some and the dollars will tell how much (and is a true number 2 or 3 girl) And u know what u are willing to pay. I had hoped for and got $300 with my Colombian hottie below - but the second I met her I knew I was willing to pay $400+ if necessary.

Best negotiating line ever with hat tip to Marelobo Mex. I use the above line on my Miami hottie after 3 hours of drinks and dancing (no gift so far) when she says $400. I say "Oh baby that makes me sad. That's the "I don't want to go with you price". I thought you liked me?

Boom. Ok $300. Ok let's go babe! So I spent 4 hours including room time for $300. And she was smokin hot![/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=MaxSquatter;2377348]Thanks for your advice. Very interesting. My issue is sending the initial message to seem legit and desirable without seeming desperate. Your idea is treat it as a dinner date first but how do you stand out from all the others to get that date? I think you are right about waiting to discuss money because that is a turn off to most. It just seems like a struggle getting attention on that site even though I am fairly young and in good shape. Thanks for your help![/QUOTE]Engaging a girl on SA is not that different from real life. Show some true interest. Compliment them. Ask them things.

Never use a cut and paste opener and never ask for pics. They will share them when ready. Use lots of emojis like smiles and hearts to express your emotion when speaking.

So a good intro would be (use your own voice):

Wow. I have to say I was struck by your pics. You are soooo my type. 💕.

But I was mostly interested in your profile. It is so interesting that you blah blah blah. I like to do xxx myself.

Please take a look at my profile because I think we may be a great match. Let me know if you want to talk more. I would LOVe to. 🙏128149;.

Like I say it's like real world. Find common ground. Show customized genuine interest. Compliment without being creepy! NEVER ask for pics. Just let it build organically.

I honestly don’t get around to discussing a meetup for several days.

Good stuff. Funny how convoluted it is even when we know what both parties want. Everyone has to play their little games.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2377360]Engaging a girl on SA is not that different from real life. Show some true interest. Compliment them. Ask them things.

Never use a cut and paste opener and never ask for pics. They will share them when ready. Use lots of emojis like smiles and hearts to express your emotion when speaking.

So a good intro would be (use your own voice):

Wow. I have to say I was struck by your pics. You are soooo my type. 💕.

But I was mostly interested in your profile. It is so interesting that you blah blah blah. I like to do xxx myself.

Please take a look at my profile because I think we may be a great match. Let me know if you want to talk more. I would LOVe to. 🙏128149;.

Like I say it's like real world. Find common ground. Show customized genuine interest. Compliment without being creepy! NEVER ask for pics. Just let it build organically.

I honestly dont get around to discussing a meetup for several days.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=MaxSquatter;2377348]Thanks for your advice. Very interesting. My issue is sending the initial message to seem legit and desirable without seeming desperate. Your idea is treat it as a dinner date first but how do you stand out from all the others to get that date? I think you are right about waiting to discuss money because that is a turn off to most. It just seems like a struggle getting attention on that site even though I am fairly young and in good shape. Thanks for your help![/QUOTE]I have been on SA for more than 5 years although in between I took some breaks and tried other sites and even on Tinder. Seeking has been my best sugarbabe site so far and where I had the most amount of success, but other sites provided a few hits here and there.

That said, I have an different approach to yours. I treat this as a volume game. And the volumes are very large in my area. I'm lucky enough to live in an area of more than a couple of million people within 50 mile radius and it is also not super expensive. I. E it is not SF or NYC. Every day I see several dozens of new faces in my search and I look for just slim, 27 and mostly white girls (occasionally a Puerto Rican or Asian or other Latino). No offense, those are my preferred types.

The other issue is that many girls are active only briefly and do not login for days and many of them are so finicky that they delete their account and leave or they simply block you after a couple of innocuous messages. Trying to build up a huge rapport and relationship with a few chosen ones simply doesn't work for me, because those could leave anytime without a trace.

I liken this to catching small fish in an ocean. It is a porous net and the fish are easily slipping out. I have to cast a wide net, and not focus on a few premeditated targets.

I bring up the fact that I will give allowance in the first couple of messages. Almost all the girls are there on the site for money, so this should be made clear. This matters because from my discussions with many girls, a lot of guys are trying to cop free dates and even sex with girls without paying any allowance. Telling her that you will give allowance is an important confidence booster.

I also do not care if the girl is an obvious hooker or a genuine student trying to make a few bucks and then quit sugarbabing. I mean, if I'm happy to bang the WGs in FKKs, why should I discriminate against hookers on [URL]seeking.com[/URL]? If the girl is young, fresh, and attractive she is those things, hooker or not. That said, most of the girls I have fucked are quite amateur and for 90% of them, I was their first sugar daddy.

I also don't try to hide my intention that I'm here for sex. I don't put it in my profile screaming "I want to fuck on the first meet", but when the girl asks what I want, I politely say that I want to get to know her, understand what she is open to and what she likes to do and go from there based on our mutual interests. She gets the point. They say a woman knows whether she wants to fuck a guy or not in the first 30 seconds after meeting him. The seeking equivalent is, a girl knows almost guys are there for sex, but only 50% of girls on seeking will have sex (the remaining want to be strictly platonic, or do pics and videos exchange, or dinners and dates for pay but no sex); the idea is for the guy to know what kinda category she falls into within the first 10 messages. I don't want to waste my time sending 200 messages to a girl who will simply not budge from "strictly platonic" stance.

Almost all the girls will ask what I am seeking within first few messages. Granted, I have had several dozen messages with *a few girls* who are simply not ready for FWB arrangements and are hesitant to even meet for a coffee. But then, I'm not paying for those messages, so I don't mind. But by and large, most girls come to the point in their first 10 messages and we move the discussion to phone or kik (for some reason, kik is the most favored app for these girls on seeking, way more than any other app).

In the end, your success rate and the amount you pay are largely decided by your location. I have used seeking to meet girls I other cities apart from home city when I'm on business travels, and it is very clear that this is largely a regional market, very much like housing. You can find depressed housing prices in a locality and overheated in a different region and same is true for sugarbabes. In that sense, I'm somewhat lucky where I am. My problem is trying to find enough time to juggle so many balls in the air and trying to manage the budget time and money wise.

[QUOTE=Pessimist;2377396]I have been on SA for more than 5 years although in between I took some breaks and tried other sites and even on Tinder. Seeking has been my best sugarbabe site so far and where I had the most amount of success, but other sites provided a few hits here and there.

That said, I have an different approach to yours. I treat this as a volume game. And the volumes are very large in my area. I'm lucky enough to live in an area of more than a couple of million people within 50 mile radius and it is also not super expensive. I. E it is not SF or NYC. Every day I see several dozens of new faces in my search and I look for just slim, 27 and mostly white girls (occasionally a Puerto Rican or Asian or other Latino). No offense, those are my preferred types.

The other issue is that many girls are active only briefly and do not login for days and many of them are so finicky that they delete their account and leave or they simply block you after a couple of innocuous messages. Trying to build up a huge rapport and relationship with a few chosen ones simply doesn't work for me, because those could leave anytime without a trace.

I liken this to catching small fish in an ocean. It is a porous net and the fish are easily slipping out. I have to cast a wide net, and not focus on a few premeditated targets.

I bring up the fact that I will give allowance in the first couple of messages. Almost all the girls are there on the site for money, so this should be made clear. This matters because from my discussions with many girls, a lot of guys are trying to cop free dates and even sex with girls without paying any allowance. Telling her that you will give allowance is an important confidence booster.

I also do not care if the girl is an obvious hooker or a genuine student trying to make a few bucks and then quit sugarbabing. I mean, if I'm happy to bang the WGs in FKKs, why should I discriminate against hookers on [URL]seeking.com[/URL]? If the girl is young, fresh, and attractive she is those things, hooker or not. That said, most of the girls I have fucked are quite amateur and for 90% of them, I was their first sugar daddy.

I also don't try to hide my intention that I'm here for sex. I don't put it in my profile screaming "I want to fuck on the first meet", but when the girl asks what I want, I politely say that I want to get to know her, understand what she is open to and what she likes to do and go from there based on our mutual interests. She gets the point. They say a woman knows whether she wants to fuck a guy or not in the first 30 seconds after meeting him. The seeking equivalent is, a girl knows almost guys are there for sex, but only 50% of girls on seeking will have sex (the remaining want to be strictly platonic, or do pics and videos exchange, or dinners and dates for pay but no sex); the idea is for the guy to know what kinda category she falls into within the first 10 messages. I don't want to waste my time sending 200 messages to a girl who will simply not budge from "strictly platonic" stance.

Almost all the girls will ask what I am seeking within first few messages. Granted, I have had several dozen messages with *a few girls* who are simply not ready for FWB arrangements and are hesitant to even meet for a coffee. But then, I'm not paying for those messages, so I don't mind. But by and large, most girls come to the point in their first 10 messages and we move the discussion to phone or kik (for some reason, kik is the most favored app for these girls on seeking, way more than any other app).

In the end, your success rate and the amount you pay are largely decided by your location. I have used seeking to meet girls I other cities apart from home city when I'm on business travels, and it is very clear that this is largely a regional market, very much like housing. You can find depressed housing prices in a locality and overheated in a different region and same is true for sugarbabes. In that sense, I'm somewhat lucky where I am. My problem is trying to find enough time to juggle so many balls in the air and trying to manage the budget time and money wise.[/QUOTE]Yeah I have to caveat things with the fact that I love having "girlfriends" and I love texting with girls every night. You'the think I was a millennial! So a lot of texting is good for me. I am always bummed if none of my cuties are around or up for a chat any given night.

Also I look for a real date and the escorts are not down to spend four hours with you. They might have a drink but are ready to fuck and get their cash. The non-pros enjoy the date itself (or are exceeding patient). My dates are usually 3-4 hours so you need a girl you have really established on line chemistry with.

[QUOTE=Steve9696;2377413]Yeah I have to caveat things with the fact that I love having "girlfriends" and I love texting with girls every night. You'the think I was a millennial! So a lot of texting is good for me. I am always bummed if none of my cuties are around or up for a chat any given night.

Also I look for a real date and the escorts are not down to spend four hours with you. They might have a drink but are ready to fuck and get their cash. The non-pros enjoy the date itself (or are exceeding patient). My dates are usually 3-4 hours so you need a girl you have really established on line chemistry with.[/QUOTE]I think I would be happy to have lot of dates as well except I have some other personal circumstance which makes too many public dates a little impractical and also while I enjoy the dates I want to know upfront that sex is on the table. Some girls also expect some payment for dates that doesn't involve sex. Clearly that does not interest me. I have time management issues so I like to keep these texting convos a bit short.

But I can totally understand enjoying texting with young pretty girls. Gives a feeling of GFE. If I could, I would do things like movies, museums, outdoor excursions, beach or hiking or boating etc but time is a huge problem. I am glad these things work out better for you.

The SPD (a German political party) in Baden-Wrttemberg wants to criminalize the purchase of sexual services. The members passed a resolution at the party convention in Heidenheim.

https://www.stuttgarter-zeitung.de/inhalt.spd-landesparteitag-in-heidenheim-spd-will-kauf-von-sex-unter-strafe-stellen.dfe17367-b5ae-45f5-9b5b-70307fe2c22c.html


BigBuddy69, Sirioja, Pistons (I assume you are from one of Nordic countries).

I am curious: how difficult and dangerous is it for French men and say Swedish men to buy sex in their countries?, what are the punishments if you get caught? Can you explain a little? Thanks.

[QUOTE=Bfsie;2380681]The SPD (a German political party) in Baden-Wrttemberg wants to criminalize the purchase of sexual services. The members passed a resolution at the party convention in Heidenheim.

https://www.stuttgarter-zeitung.de/inhalt.spd-landesparteitag-in-heidenheim-spd-will-kauf-von-sex-unter-strafe-stellen.dfe17367-b5ae-45f5-9b5b-70307fe2c22c.html.[/QUOTE]How realistic is it for this law to pass though?

I mean with all the FKK and other licensed brothels in Germany, it is unlikely such law will pass and I imagine most members of parliaments are men, so that also help a bit to go against such law. I hope.