Cuba and US Politics

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Castro is still a better person in diary !!! Fuck D BUSH, As usual US policy if you are not my buddy you gotta be my enemy!

Anyway BUSH is surely going down this election

Lover Boy

Jackson,

Thank you for this much needed section. The Havana board was becoming overloaded with politics: so much so that during a period of a few weeks there was more political thought posted than chica information!

Regards, Havanaman

"... you cannot separate Cuba mongering from politics"

Kudos to whoever made this suggestion. Now, let the pontification begin.

Bush will be re-elected, no doubt about it.

And if he will be not - there is going to be NO different at all. They all are small marionettes and the big interests behind roules.

Jackson,

Many thanks for open this new section. I am sick
and tired of fellow mongers talking about politics
and lately "laughing" about El Cubanito.

Fellow mongers should do what I did, if thats
the case: For the time being do not visit Cuba,
until Gloria, Emilio and Cristina give us the okay
to visit. They are responsible ...

Thank you Jackson for another well thought out and needed addition. Politics on this Cuba site have recently become overbearing and unrelenting. Not to mention one sided.

I believe that politics are best left to a separate section like this one you have created.

gracias amigo

Thanks for the new topic:

Here is my two cents. The Miami mafia while influencital from a political standpoint is not wholly to blame for the evnets which we are now facing. Presidents make policy decisons, but it is the staffers in the Dept of State that enforce policy and give it teeth. Castro in his infinite wisdom created many problems in the world in addition to Cuba (e.g. Boliva, Angola, El Salvador and Nicarugua, ect...). What we mongers are feeling right now is the pain from a big dog (the USA), being tired of that pain in the ass. What we are seeing is not something short term in nature. This is a very concerted effort by the USA to isolate Cuba and bring about a regime change that will be more conducive to the USA and its foriegn ploicy. I am an American, and I prefer Cuba because it is cheap and safe. What we need on this borad is to find a way around the problem, because as I said this is NOT a short term problem.

What countries are complying with the US Passport Control request. What countries are not? There must be a solution to the problem lets find it. This will be much easier than trying to change the USA foriegn policy.

Once again, thanks Jackson for creating this forum.

That said, I'm not a great fan of our commander in cheif and plan on voting against him in the next election, mostly for reasons beyond the scope of this discussion ( Read Ashcroft, the Patriot act and the war in Iraq in order).

That said, I think Fidel is a dinosaur who will probably be visited by the angel of death soon but not soon enough. Without the former Soviet Union to back his regime, it is only a matter of his passing before the old regime crumbles and he is gone.

What I don't understand about US policy is why we isolate Cuba- its totally a punative and negative way of reacting to Castro. I think the thing to do is to bring Cuba into the new millenium. Yes, I mean open and unrestricted TRADE. Nothing will force the collapse of the current ideas and scheme of things more quickly than exposing cubans to consumer goods and the world market. Castro may be able to hold his little marxist enclave together by sheer force of will while he lives, but with the island existing right at the border of one of the largest international markets in the world, modern cuba will not be able to resist the jugernaut of the free market and international trade.

My point? that as long as we (the United States) continue a policy of economic isolation and international quarentine against Cuba, we are actually insuring the status quo. Castro will still continue to get enough hard currency from the european commenwealth to shore up his regime, and we will be gridlocked in the status quo. Open trade and open ideas will reform the hearts and minds of the cuban people.

We're siding with has beens who are still sore about losing their property at the fall of Batista- that was 50 years ago, this is now.
We lost the Bay of Pigs, get over it. Nothing will bring Cuba back to the capitalist fold sooner than to open trade and allow tourism (and therein the influx of western ideas through us visiting gringos).

I heard a newscast last night here in Maryland, saying that an oil compant has been doing exploratory drilling in Cuban territory and will have the results later this week. If it pans out, this IMO most likely effectivly end the embarg I think as there will be many
countries wanting access to this crude oil.

Chaz

Warpig2000

In regards Fidel, I do have some news for you, he is
going to live for about 120 years.

Chariiesx,

Here are some other news ... Guess what country wants
access to this crude oil. Yes, you are right the US thru
Canada.

Read about Castro's Sex Tourism rebutal:

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=politicsNews&storyID=5779442

I was pretty surprised when one WSG'er PM'ed me telling me that Fidel encourages prostitution. I told him he was wrong and he said that Bush was saying that Fidel is promoting prostitution. Anyone that has visited Cuba knows this is a flat out lie. Cuba has to be one of the toughest and harshest places for girls to get caught working. Honestly, I wouldn't recommend Cuba as a hobby destination because of the girls possibly going to jail.

Cuba WILL open up. That's a fact. They can't keep things like this forever. Just as the wall came tumbling down...change will happen in Cuba too.

I never talk politics on WSG but I will say that most politicians these days are clowns. I really don't think it matters who's in office these days. Politics is politics. I've always been a Republican but it's hard to say anything positive about Bush. Many fellow Republicans I know aren't voting for him this election either. Even the Bush lovers have to admit that your man is better off not talking. He might have a chance if he just keeps his mouth shut and doesn't say anything.

If you want a good laugh about Bush/Kerry you can view the link below. Good luck. (wait till after any previews of other movie clips...)

[url]www.jibjab.com/thisland.html [/url]

Saint.

That Bush/Kerry- movie is very poular here in Europe in mostley TV- channels. And we all know that that´s the way it is.

I have been to Cuba five times and know that bullshit from Bush is a very big lie. Among many, many other issues.

Saint, that clip is priceless, thank you! As for the issue, it is true, prostitution is severely punished in Cuba. They shot themselves in the foot economically by cracking down on it so harshly over the past few years too. As usual, Bush is full of shit. But so is Fidel, who gives most Cubans no other choice but to sell their bodies for food and shoes.

First time offenders in Cuba are now placed in "education camps" for two years, six for second "offenders."

No problem Doc. Actually I find that most politicians in general are full of hot air. Fidel included. Most of them are thieves too. No telling how many hundreds of millions of dollars Fidel has hidden in Swiss bank accounts. Same as many leaders of Latin American countries.

The scene is really depressing in Cuba. I'm not sure how guys in good conscience can report that Cuba is still among one of the best places to hobby. I really thought it was one of the worst places when you factor in the guilt factor, the sneaking around, the consequences for the girls, quality of girls, etc.

No doubt Cuba is a special place. No one can argue with that. It's just a shame how most have to live there. Things WILL change. Just will take a few more years. I'm still glad I got to go there before things change.

I think we all can have different opinions on Cuba and the politics of Cuba. Some of us are Republicans some of us Democrats, Liberals, Conservatives, et al. The important thing is to discuss things intelligently and more importantly honestly. It's ok to disagree but it's not ok to start lying or spinning words someone else said.

The real shame is that most Americans don't have a clue about Cuba, the living standards of it's citizens, the culture or way of life there. I'm damn proud to be American but I'm not proud of the fact that many Americans can't even find Cuba on a map. (Hell, I think something like 1 in 6 can't even accurately point out Canada and Mexico!!). Out of all my travels around the world I can honestly and regrettably say that Americans are some of the most ignorant, stubborn, unintelligent and arrogant people. The world is a big place but most Americans don't care what happens beyond our borders.

Sad....

Saint,

Good report ...

I am not into politics; however, I love Cuba and specially the
people, they are so humble and also for me its a special place.
I love Cuban Music and thats the primary reason why I used
to go, specially the music played in Oriente, called SON.

In regards your comment about us Americans do not even
have a clue about Cuba, and also could not find it in the map,
its true. Remember years ago a lady friend on mine attending
High School she could not place in the map: Washington State
and DC.

Thanks again ... and hope before I die go again to my lovely
Cuba.

Good insights. I agree that whatever one's political leanings, Americans in general are very ignorant of the rest of the world. When I tell people I've gone to Cuba the typical reply is something like: "But couldn't you get killed there?" Americans (of which I am one) have the most ugly combination of traits: Ignorance of other cultures and their importance, arrogance and profound narcissism. A very very bad combination. I find myself a lot more ashamed than proud these days to be American. But that goes beyond Cuba.

I have extensively studied Cuban history and the history of Cuban-American politics. Bottom line is that American policy is held hostage by two right-wing Cuban-American congressmen, and that that is just fine with Fidel, who clearly cherishes the embargo he publicly decries because he knows it has kept him in power for so long. Ironic, isn't it?

Cuba is a wonderful place, because it has the most wonderful people in the world, in my experience. And they're screwed either way: Having to live miserably under Fidel or turning into another Miami Beach. Hobson's choice.

Calm down boys. You are not all that bad as you say. I know that the most americans have problems with geography and I don`t know why. Possible the schols or maybe something about your history. I think it is a middleclass- and countryproblem. Most of the americans who are travelling are very polite and nice talking to. And so are you guys. You are critisism and look at yoursef from outside which I think is very healthy, whatever country you come from.

Saint. I don´t belive Fidel has one single peso in a swiss bank. One can say many bad words about him, but he is not corrupt. He is an idealist and socialist and struggle against the capitalism - until his death. So what should he do with that money?

Keep up your good writings;-)

I can't understand american foreign policy, especially Bush's (and neigher can most of the wold). But I came across his CV which makes interesting reading,


With a CV like this you too can become the leader of the freeworld!




RESUME


GEORGE W. BUSH
1600 Pennsylvania Avenue
Washington, DC 20520


EDUCATION AND EXPERIENCE:


Law Enforcement:
I was arrested in Kennebunkport, Maine, in 1976 for driving under the
influence of alcohol. I pled guilty, paid a fine, and had my driver's
license suspended for 30 days. My Texas driving record has been "lost"
and is not available.


Military:
I joined the Texas Air National Guard and went AWOL. I refused to take
a drug test or answer any questions about my drug use. By joining the
Texas Air National Guard, I was able to a void combat duty in Vietnam.


College:
I graduated from Yale University with a low C average.
I was a cheerleader.


PAST WORK EXPERIENCE:

I ran for U.S. Congress and lost. I began my career in the oil
business in Midland, Texas, in 1975. I bought an oil company, but
couldn't find any oil in Texas. The company went bankrupt shortly
after I sold all my stock. I bought the Texas Rangers baseball team in
a sweetheart deal that took land using taxpayer money. With the help
of my father and our friends in the oil industry (including Enron CEO
Ken
Lay), I was elected governor of Texas.

ACCOMPLISHMENTS AS GOVERNOR OF TEXAS:

I changed Texas pollution laws to favor power and oil companies,
making Texas the most polluted state in the Union. During my tenure,
Houston replaced Los Angeles as the most smog-ridden city in America.

I cut taxes and bankrupted the Texas treasury to the tune of
billions in borrowed money.

I set the record for the most executions by any governor in American
history.

With the help of my brother, the governor of Florida, and my
father's appointments to the Supreme Court, I became President after
losing by over 500,000 votes.

ACCOMPLISHMENTS AS PRESIDENT:

I am the first President in U.S. history to enter office with a
criminal record.

I invaded and occupied two countries at a continuing cost of over
one billion dollars per week.

I spent the U.S. surplus and effectively bankrupted the U.S.
Treasury.

I shattered the record for the largest annual deficit in U.S.
history.

I set an economic record for most private bankruptcies filed in any
12-month period.

I set the all-time record for most foreclosures in a 12-month
period.

I set the all-time record for the biggest drop in the history of the
U.S.stock market. In my first year in office, over 2 million Americans
Lost their jobs and that trend continues every month.

I'm proud that the members of my cabinet are the richest of any
administration in U.S. history. My "poorest millionaire," Condoleeza
Rice, has a Chevron oil tanker named after her.

I set the record for most campaign fund-raising trips by a U.S.
President.

I am the all-time U.S. and world record-holder for receiving the
most corporate campaign donations.

My largest lifetime campaign contributor, and one of my best
friends, Kenneth Lay, presided over the largest corporate bankruptcy
fraud in U.S. History: Enron.

My political party used Enron private jets and cor porate attorneys
to ensure my success with the U.S. Supreme Court during my election
decision.

I have protected my friends at Enron and Halliburton against
investigation or prosecution. More time and money was spent investigating the Monica
Lewinsky affair than has been spent investigating one of the biggest
corporate rip-offs in history.

I presided over the biggest energy crisis in U.S. history and
refused to intervene when corruption involving the oil industry was
revealed.

I presided over the highest gasoline prices in U.S. history.

I changed the U.S. policy to allow convicted criminals to be awarded
government contracts.

I appointed more convicted criminals to administration than any
President in U.S. history.

I created the Ministry of Homeland Security, the largest bureaucracy
in the history of the United States government.

I've broken more international treaties than any President in U.S.
history.

I am the first President in U.S. history to have the United Nations
Remove the U.S. from the Human Rights Commission.

I withdrew the U.S. from the World Court of Law.

I refused to allow inspector's access to U.S. "prisoners of >war"
detainees, and have refused to abide by the Geneva Convention.

I am the first President in history to refuse United Nations
election inspectors (during the 2002 U.S. elections).

I set the record for fewest numbers of press conferences of any
President since the advent of television.

I set the all-time record for most days on vacation in any one-year
period. After taking off the entire month of August 2001,

I presided over the worst security failure in U.S. history.

I garnered the most sympathy ever for the U.S. after the World Trade
Center attacks and less than a year later made the U.S. the most hated
country in the world---the largest failure of diplomacy in world
history.

I have set the all-time record for most people worldwide to
Simultaneously protest me in public venues (15 million people),
shattering the record for protests against any person in the history
of mankind.

I am the first President in U.S. history to order an unprovoked,
preemptive attack and the military occupation of a sovereign nation. I
did so against the will of the United Nations, the majority of U.S.
citizens, and the world community.

I have cut health care benefits for war veterans and support a cut
in duty benefits for active duty troops and their families in wartime.

In my State of the Union Address, I lied about our reasons for
attacking Iraq and then blamed the lies on our British friends.

I am the first President in history to have a majority of Europeans
(71%) view my presidency as the biggest threat to world peace and
security.

I am supporting development of a nuclear "Tactical Bunker Buster," a
WMD.

- I have so far failed to fulfill my pledge to bring Osama Bin Laden
to justice.


RECORDS AND REFERENCES:

All records of my tenure as governor of Texas are now in my father's
library, sealed and unavailable for public view.

All records of SEC investigations into my insider trading and my
Bankrupt companies are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public
view.

All records or minutes from meetings that I, or my Vice-President,
attended regarding public energy policy are sealed in secrecy and
unavailable for public review.

PLEASE CONSIDER MY EXPERIENCE WHEN VOTING IN 2004!

Doc Bill,

You have all my respect: Well done job on your message.
I am also an american and you are correct now days, its
hard mentioned without given us the bad look.

Havana Moon,

I didn't mean to sound like ALL Americans are blabbering idiots because that's clearly not the case. I only meant that many Americans overall as a nation have those traits. As I mentioned, I'm damn proud to be American. The United States is the best country in the world as far as I'm concerned. In all my travels across the world until the day comes when I don't meet a local telling me they would love to live in the USA then I'll rethink my feelings on the USA. Whether I've been in South America, Cuba, Mexico, Central America, London, Germany, Switzerland, Italy, Prague, etc. many many people tell me their dream is to live in the USA. There is a damn good reason for that.

As far as Fidel being "corrupt". "Corrupt" is a relative term. It means different things to different people. If you really believe that Fidel doesn't have a stash of money hidden away then all the power to you. We can agree to disagree. Kind of like those senior citizens that lived very meager lives. They don't have many worldly possessions, they never spent a lot of money... then at their death you read about them donating 3 million dollars to some University. Go figure.

Jackson,

Great new board. If Kerry wins the election, which looks likely, there's a good chance that he might lift the embargo on Cuba.

Everybody wants to come to America for the MONEY. There are a few on this earth who hold different values, those that are antithetical to "The American Dream." I have met many people from many countries who wouldn't dream of living here (Argentina, Venezuela, France and most Nordic countries, to name a few). This, contrary to popular opinion, is also not the only "free" country on earth. There are many things I love about being American and many very good people here, but I'm sure I won't die here, lets put it that way. In fact the only thing keeping me here now is money: The fact that I make a good living that I couldn't anywhere else, but as soon as I'm cushioned sufficiently I'm outta here. It'll be a nice place to visit!

If Cuba wasn't a brutal communist dictatorship I'd be very happy living there. Yeah, I know, and if my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle.

And on a tangential note, those who think Fidel is an idealist or even a true socialist/communist are wrong. Fidel uses the concepts of socialism and idealism in his rhetoric, but Fidel is only a Fidelist, nothing more, nothing less, and his history bears that out. It has always been all about him, not the people and not any ideals. That is consistent with his character, succinctly described as megalomaniacal narcissism.

Add that to the villiage idiot in the White House and the current state of Cuban-American affairs should come as no surprise to anyone.

I am an immigrant who is now US citizen. Lived in Europe and Africa. I was really excited when I came to the US.

I am richer than when I arrived in the US. But I am now less excited of staying. Reasons are many among them lack of openess about sex, American women, too conservative and if Bush wins in November I am out.

My 2 cents

I have done a fair amount of travelling as i love it and i have to say people around the world in general know very little about Canada my country. The worldly travellers posting here are much more aware than the average world citizen. Heck the Cubans think you live near the North Pole it makes you howl with laughter. The Americans I find on holidays are usually more friendly than the Europeans maybe a language thing not sure.

Fidel uses the state media propoganda tv and newspapers very well as many Cubans are brainwashed with anti-capitalist bull. We are of course stripping the world bare Nike underpaying workers etc meanwhile the Cubans are making 50 cents a day in Cuba rolling cigars that sell for 100 200 300 dollars in the government shops go figure. There are way too many laws in Cuba as well the locals laugh about it like satelite dishes are illegal very few can afford black market rates on dishes why? A foreigner can't live at a friends place in Cuba legally only government sactioned casas and hotels what a ripoff. Cuba is like travelling in a time machine they have sadly been left behind they due very little really except play dominos drink warm cheap rum and have sex. At least thats what I see.

Just got back from Cuba. By far my worst trip ever. Six times in all since 2001 to this complicated little island. Even with the blackouts and the harassment at customs in Havana I missed that place soon as I my plane touched down in the US. A fat homely stewardess on my flight from houston actually thought I was trying to pinch her ass when I tried to get her attention. Unbelievable. But now I remember why I put up with all the shit to go to Cuba. This is the worse I've seen that place since I've been going. More people begging than usual and just less joy all around. People are praying Jorge does not win the next election. Not that it'll make that any difference to their economic prospects but certainly in psychological terms.

Cuerno,

What happened with the customs in Havana? Did they charge you a tax for the stuff you brought? Care to share your thoughts on way things didn't go so well.

I have long held the position, girls in Cuba were secondary, on the far back burner. If dues have been paid and time has been well spent in Cuba, real relationships with 'manos should have, and ought to have been created. The conditions in Cuba have never dampened our spirits when we are together. The girls are temporary, hermanos are for the long haul.

Back in May, a guy was trying to leave the airport in Havana with 38 porno videos of Cubanas. The videos were taken from him and the cops followed up and tracked down all the girls on tape. He was questioned and was able to depart on his flight. The girls who got paid $50-$100 for the shoot, were sent off to prison for three years.

If this guy comes back to Cuba, he will be tracked and followed everwhere he goes. You thought you got hasseled by customs? You haven't seen fingered until this guy steps through the Jose Marti X-Ray machine. Porn is bad news in Cuba. Don't put yourself on the list is get searched everytime you enter Cuba.

There is another guy who posts on UMV who is really proud of his porno work in Cuba. If any of you know him, tell him to take of the photos off the free previews of his pay site. The girls are at risk if they are discovered. BTW, he gives himself strong props on how well he low-balled them. Hint, the DWB.

Another unrelated story from Havana. Two cops had a couple of girls locked in an apartment in Havana. After a couple of days, the girls had enough and started getting loud. The area CDR rep called the police to free the girls, and the police who kept them were fired.

Thanks for the report, Cuerno. That fat stewardess was no doubt hoping you were trying to pinch her ass. In cuba you actually could have and it would have been acceptable. That's one of the many reasons I feel sad when I leave Cuba, even though, like you, I get so sick of all the bullshit and inconvenience I have to tolerate there. The women aren't all so fucked up with their "issues" in Cuba. They have more important things to worry about, like food, and sex is just something you can do for fun, no head trips required.

I'm so sorry but not surprised to hear that things are worsening. They deserve so much better. Seems they are brainwashed into blaming Bush, when the real problem is their own leader.

I'm thinking of returning for the holidays. If anyone is interested in joining or hooking up let me know. I can get a legal pass there, btw.

I definitely would not recommend Cuba as a monger destination for first timers. Especially americans with limited spanish skills. Not that you won't get any but you will wind up paying 50 to 60 a pop for hardcore types. Not worth the risk and the bullshit you will have to wade through. The DR might be a better choice at this point although it sounds like they're having blackout problems of their own. The difference of course is you can walk around in Havana in total darkness and feel relatively safe. I would think twice before trying that in Santo Domingo.

Petrolero,

I seriously doubt this person will be allowed back into cuba. Even if he does he will have a permanent shadow like you said. Well my problems in customs had nothing to do with anything I was trying to sneak in. Although I did have a laptop and a playstation but I don't think those even registered with the scanners they had. They kept asking me if I had any friends in Cuba which of course I did. They asked for specific addresses and at first I refused to tell them. They held my passport and told me to stand on the side while they processed others on the line. When I came up again I gave them an address of a Duena of a casa particular which I didn't really care for and I was on my way. I have been asked this question before but this is the first time they asked for names and addresses which threw me back. Scary but of course you can just give them any address and be done with it. Petrolero you're right I value the real friendships I've made in Cuba more the search for the puta of my dreams. Don't get me wrong that's still part of the attraction but certainly not the only ones. The living is still cheap in the island if you know your way a bit also.

Saint,

You might have to revise your opinion if you came to Australia. I really doubt that many Australians would love to go the US. We get good coverage of events over there and, believe me, from our perspective the situation in the US is not a pretty sight.

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[size=-2][u]EDITOR's NOTE[/u]: [blue]Posting of this report was delayed pending [u]removal of political commentary in the text[/u]. Please remember that the purpose of this Forum is to provide for the exchange of information between men on the subject of finding women for sex. To avoid delays in future reports, please do not post political commentary in the Forum. [i]Thanks![/i][/blue][/size]

Saint,

I agree with Callisto if we are talking of citizens in Europe as well. Maybe it is different in the old socialistic states. But it can change in the future with more love and less guns.

Jackson, didn't you set up this section just for "political commentary?"

Jackson,

In agreement with Doc Bill, I’m intrigued: why was Callisto’s last post deleted?

If it was insulting then OK, otherwise ??

Regards, Havanaman

Cuerno.

I take from your post on the DR you're American also. I think the Ministry of Interior and the Aduana take extra care in questioning Americans. Especially Americans who visit frequently. I used to get the line of questions coming into Cuba when the customs searched my bags, lately the Interior Ministry gets me on the way in and going out at the glass booth.

Where did you stay?

Where else did you stay?

Who are your friends?

Where do you live?

What is your job?

What are the jobs of your friends?

Why do you come to Cuba so much?

How much money did you bring?

What are the names of your friends?

I usually spend a good 15 minutes coming into Cuba with the Interior Ministry, (more time in Varadero than Havana) and 15 minutes on the way out back home.

The last time with their digging into the friends occupations, I said, look, I understand relations between our countries are not good, (the jefe standing over the frontline girl in the booth starts to retreat with his hands up with an apology) and I'm sorry I come to Cuba too much for your comfort level, (again with his hands) but I want you to know I'm not in the CIA, or here to overthrow your government....OK, OK he says you can go. Once you go on the offensive in a polite manner, they back off and let you go on your way. I make sure I'm a little loud so the Canadians next in line can hear. It's a very surreal ordeal everytime I walk in and out of the airports. More with Varadero recently. I don't know what to expect, but I know they will be paying extra special attention to be. Maybe the only American on a plane of Canadians.

The people working there have been great to deal with. They are being told to do their job in a specific manner from above. I end up asking for someone who speaks English, (always a superior, which is what I want) so we can get to the point of the matter. I have never been charged $ or have items taken and stolen from me in Varadero as I have in the airport in Havana.

I think any novice to Cuba with a twenty in hand can find just as good of time as in Sosua. Same as in the past 6-7 years in Havana anyway. Cheaper prior to that time.

Jackson,

Can you elaborate why you deleted some of Callisto post. Thank you.

Petrolero,

That's a good tactic. This was the first time I've been asked so many questions at customs and this is probably because I'm american. They were actuallly apologetic when I came back to be processed and in hindsight I should have been more forceful in objecting to a few of their questions. Paranoia seems to be the order of the day when dealing with us citizens thanks to Jorge.

So it looks like Bush's new Cuba policy may backfire on him come election day. Many Cuban-Americans are very pissed off about having their travel and money-sending limited and will either vote Democratic or, more likely, just stay home. What were the Bushies thinking (not that thought has ever been one of their strong points)? Meanwhile all of it just keeps feeding Fidel's power, which is not what is good for Cubans on either side of the Florida straits. Having followed and studied Cuban-American history for some years, believe me when I say that Fidel wants nothing more than for pinhead to be re-elected. Just my 2 cents.

I know this is going to sound pretty uninformed, but here goes anyways. What exactly is Bush's new Cuba policy? I was just wondering how it's supposed to be any different than the old one.

Was also interested in any thoughts you guys might have regarding Kerry if he gets elected. Does anyone see a normalization of US-Cuba relations in the near future if Kerry replaces Bush?

Not many people realize this, but there's a US diplomatic mission in Cuba. I've been told by a staff member of an American embassy (can't say where, sorry) that except for the name, this is a de facto embassy.

Seems like we're waiting for one of 2 things to happen. Castro kicks the bucket, or the democrats get elected.

Rock

I think Jorge has little to do with their questions. I was asked the same questions when Clinton, Bush and Reagan were at the helm. The police asked the most questions of my socias when Clinton was in office.

It's worth it though. The rush of it all makes it all that more interesting. The best Americans are those with huevos, and I don't meet a lot of visitors down there, but the Americans I have have been kick ass guys. The, "Hey I've got a cooler full of beers in my room" kind of guys.

The American women were, well let's just say they were the same, keep your hands off my tail kind of women. One chick from NYC wanted to know what to see the hot spots in Havana. I told her to come home with me and I'd show her Cuba. She left running away. I meet more extranjeras because my Cuban buddies have a desire to meet them, and they consider butter face blonds stunning. It's easier for me to make the intros in case the cops are watching, or will be.

Wanna bet? Not bad for an idiot, eh?

Jeez I hope not. Not that he'll stop me from my feats of Cuba jumping but 4 more years of booshie is just no goodie.

I don't think being an idiot makes someone unelectable....on the contrary!

Americans must now be more patriotic and vote for this policy:

How does that go, "... land of the free and home of the brave". Sure, but we're not "free" to go to Cuba, and if you're "brave" enough to try, it'll cost you dearly!

You've gotta luv the irony.

did a little fist-pumping when i watched this speech on the floor of the house today. flake has set off for a new republican policy flank, very far from miami in his desire for cuban sea change.

office of congressman jeff flake
news release
for immediate release: wednesday, september 15, 2004
contact : matthew specht (202) 225-2635

congressman flake withdraws amendment lifting cuba travel ban policy effort being mired in election years politics

washington, d.c. - arizona congressman jeff flake, a member of the house international relations committee, today gave the following statement on the floor of the house of representatives regarding his decision to withdraw his amendment that would effectively lift the ban on americans traveling to cuba:

"mr. speaker, for the past four years i have stood to offer this same amendment, an amendment to restore the basic right of americans to travel to cuba. the flake amendment has, for the past three years, enjoyed broad bipartisan support in the congress, and for good reason. for the past 45 years we have attempted to bring about regime change in cuba, only to see
fidel castro outlast nine u.s. presidents. all the while, his countrymen have been denied their most basic human rights.

"a compelling case could be made that our policy of isolating cuba made sense during the cold war. as a pawn of the soviet union, cuba was actively exporting the revolution with its troops around the world. but we are more than a decade removed from the cold war. we face new challenges, challenges that, it can be safely said, don't include the spread of cuban-style communism.

"our challenge is to export freedom to cuba, and for this cause our current policy is as outdated as the cars that ply the highways of havana. how can we promote liberty in cuba with a policy that denies our own citizens the right to travel to the island? how can we foster respect for basic human dignity when we tell cuban americans that they can no longer send soap and
toothpaste to their long-suffering relatives in cuba?

"have we become so blinded by short-term politics that we fail to see the long-term consequences of our policy? in a word, yes. i should note that this blindness does not only affect the republican party. the democratic leadership hasn't offered a vision that is much clearer. unfortunately, neither party can see past florida when trying to decide what to do about cuba.

"with this bill today, and in other bills this year, we will appropriate tens of millions of dollars relating to cuba. it is fitting that we ask, for what purpose? so that think tanks in miami can churn out more reports telling the congress, unsurprisingly, that we ought to continue the current policy, which includes giving them money? so that daily television programs can be produced in miami that cubans will never see?

so that a little-league team in arizona won't be able to play baseball with their peers in cuba? so that faith-based groups in indiana distributing bibles in cuba can be fined for their evangelical zeal? so that a grieving daughter in south carolina won't be able to attend her mother's funeral in cuba? as a republican, i fail to see anything conservative about these policies.

"there is a saying, "no man is an island," yet our policy assumes that fidel castro is cuba's only resident. the people of cuba have suffered decades under his rule. our policies, particularly those enacted just months ago which limit family charity, have only added to their burdens.

continued

"Unfortunately, the timing of this legislation this year does not lend itself to a reasoned and thoughtful debate about our policy toward Cuba. Our efforts in this area have always been bipartisan in nature. But, with elections so close and politics so raw, this debate would not receive the thoughtful deliberation it deserves.

"I want to thank those members of Congress on both sides of the aisle who are working so hard for a more effective and reasonable Cuba policy - those who believe that promoting freedom in Cuba is best achieved by giving Americans more freedom. Our efforts will resume as soon as the electoral
smoke clears.

"It is my understanding that Congressman Davis of Florida will offer an amendment to roll back the new restrictions on family travel by Cuban Americans. My colleagues and I look forward to helping Congressman Davis with his worthy efforts.

"With that, Mr. Speaker, I withdraw my amendment."

All right so my mother in law calls me today, and says that she filled out a letter to the state saying she was with a church group, and needs to do church work in cuba. They in turn send a request to the department of state, and 2 weeks later she is able to get on a flight penalty free. Now she is not religous but just wanted to see the family. So what is to stop mongers from doing the same?

Cheers for Congressman Flake!

Interesting, but I don't expect things to rollback or change anytime soon, especially if Bushie gets (re?)elected. American policy is basically held hostage by three Cuban-American congressmen, which historically is based on a family feud: Castro v. Diaz-Ballart.

Dick Armey, a very conservative Republican, upon retiring a couple of years ago, stated flat out that the only reason the embargo was still in place was to placate Miami's congressmen and Cuban-Americans. The Cubans in Miami have always thought that someday they are going to go back and get back the property they lost. Not gonna happen. There is some change among the younger generation, though, who are more willing to pursue a "detente" with Havana.

There has always been a very strange and silent cooperation of sorts between the US and Cuba. Fidel wants and needs the embargo. It's what's kept him in power. A cursory study of Cuban American history makes clear that every time the US was about to ease it Fidel did something to prevent it (e.g. Angola, Central America, shooting down the Brothers to the Rescue planes, ETC.)

Unfortunately, through all this it's the Cuban people (in Cuba) who get screwed on both sides, which is a real shame given how great they are. Well, as they say in Cuba, "...algun dia!"

Doc,

There is a chance the Miami Cubans may get something back after Castro is dead, which, fortunately, won't be too much longer.

Once he is gone the whole scene will change and it is impossible to predict how it will turn out.

There has always been a very strange and silent cooperation of sorts between the US and Cuba. Fidel wants and needs the embargo. It's what's kept him in power. A cursory study of Cuban American history makes clear that every time the US was about to ease it Fidel did something to prevent it (e.g. Angola, Central America, shooting down the Brothers to the Rescue planes, ETC.)

WTF are you talking about? GO READ A BOOK or better yet EDUCATE yourself, FOO!

Chekist, you're right, it's impossible to predict, but I'm pretty sure they won't get back land they lost over 40 years ago. At least not directly. They'll purchase a lot of it and commercialize it, but even then, I'm not so sure things will change so dramatically after Fidel. Don't you think he has plans for a post-Fidel Cuba?

Thaj, I've gone the same way as your mother-in-law, numerous times. No problems.

Castro and Co. have detailed records of property that were nationalized. The majority of which is still owned by the government. It will take a long time after Castro is gone for people to try and reclaim property. The current laws in place will probably stay in place post Castro.Therefore going through the legal process, which definately they will have to do, will take years and years. And who do you think will be in control of this legal process? Doc Bill, I agree with you 100% regarding the Florida congressmen, but you fail to include Jeb. He by far, I believe is the staunchest anticastro. I mean most of his career has been financed by Cuban-Americians. I think he may be more Cuban-American than most. One thing is for sure, Cuban-Americans who think they will go back to Cuba and control are dead wrong, almost unanmously the Cubans agree that they are the ones who suffered while Cuban Americans lived the good life, who are they to tell us what to do.

As previously stated my father works with the State Dept, and ATF/DEA , and in a meeting today he was told that they do not forsee this travel ban /restriction being feesible much longer, and expect it to be gone by Nov. . Now usually the old man doesnt share this kind of info with me, and sure as shit on the news tonight in Miami, they were already talking about it ending before halloween. If anyone knows something else share it with the rest of us.

Indio,

If you look at the history of the last 10 to 15 years of post Communist governments around the world, one can get a good indicator of what may happen.

Some Americans have gone on to become Presidents of the newly liberated countries, such as in the Baltic states. In other countries, such as the Czech Republic, it is more mixed.

However, given the proximity to the US, the large number of Cubans in the US (and the money they have) it is inevitable that the Miami Cubans will have a deep impact post-Castro Cuba.

As Doc noted, individuals may not get land they lost, but they can always buy it back -- often on the cheap through crooked means. There will likely be a heavy rise in organized crime. This has been rampant in Russia and elsewhere. Also, big time US companies will put on a lot of heat to get their real estate and other property back or get some sort of "concession" to make up for it.

Unlike most Communist governments that have had faceless leaders, Castro has dominated the politcal scene so heavily that when he is gone, there is going to be profound change. You can take that to the bank.

Posted on Sat, Sep. 25, 2004

HOW THEY VOTED

Major roll call votes by area members of Congress this week:

HOUSE

1. FAMILY TRAVEL TO CUBA (HR 5025): Voting 225-174, the House blocked new administration limits on visits by Cuban-Americans with family members in Cuba. The Treasury Department rules permit one 14-day visit every three years and redefine “family” to exclude all but parents and siblings. The previous rules allowed annual visits to aunts, uncles and cousins as well as immediate family. A yes vote was to repeal new limits.

2. FREE CUBA TRADE (HR 5025): Voting 188-225, the House refused to end U.S. economic sanctions on Cuba and thus allow free, two-way trade with the communist state. A yes vote backed free trade.

The Transportation and Treasury Bill has been transformed into a CR, a Continuing Resolution. Meaning the same amount of money spent in the previous fiscal year will be spent until the next CR or a new bill is past after the election. The two measures spoke of in the previous post, died on the vine with the death of the bill until the lame duck session, when they will be brought up again.

Rep. Jeff Flake will bring up his travel provision as an amendment to said bill on the House floor in Nov/Dec.

Mentioned by Doc Bill in another section. Add the cost of the license, times X number of trips and sooner or later, you may or may not end up to <$1000. Whatever's cool with me.

A Santeria group with a religious license to travel unimpeded to Cuba reports a boom in the size of its congregation, drawing criticism and scrutiny.

By Oscar Corral, [email]ocorral@herald.com[/email]. Posted on Sun, Feb. 27, 2005.

Despite the Bush administration's crackdown on exiles' trips back to Cuba, there are still ways to travel to the island without restriction.

One seems to be increasingly popular: Go as a Santero.

Religious groups can get licenses with little trouble. And the head of at least one group that says it practices the Afro-Cuban religion Santeria acknowledged that his congregation has exploded in size since the new travel restrictions kicked in.

Jose Montoya, head of the Sacerdocio Lucumi Shango Eyeife in Miami, said that between 1996 and July 2004, he took about 60 people to Cuba under his religious travel license. Since the restrictions took effect in July, he has taken about 2,500, he said.

''Before, people didn't have a necessity, and Afro Cubans who practice our religions could travel to Cuba without a license, but now they need a license,'' Montoya said. "This is a ticking time bomb. They will give a religious license to anyone.''

Exiles who support the restrictions -- which cut exile trips to Cuba from once a year to once every three years -- say the Santeria groups are abusing their religious privilege.

The U.S. Treasury Department allows unimpeded travel to Cuba for legitimate religious reasons. The department has issued more than 200 licenses to religious groups for travel to Cuba, according to the office of U.S. Rep. Lincoln Díaz-Balart, R-Miami.

Díaz-Balart, a supporter of the new limits, has called for an investigation, which he said is being conducted by the Treasury Department.

''There is abuse and it needs to stop,'' he said. "It is wrong for someone to say that they are seeking a license for religious travel and then to use that license commercially to promote tourism, and I think it's happening.''

Treasury Department spokeswoman Molly Millerwise and other department officials could not be reached for comment.

Tom Cooper, CEO and chairman of Gulf Stream International Airlines, one of the biggest companies still operating flights to Cuba, said he has also noticed a recent increase in the number of people coming to his airline with religious licenses.

RESOURCEFULNESS

''I have my own questions about it,'' Cooper said. "I think the Cuban people are very industrious and ingenious, and I think that they really will find a way to visit their relatives in Cuba.''

During a recent interview in his office at 4315 NW Seventh St., Montoya told The Herald that he has an established track record in Miami's Santeria community and is not abusing his travel license.

Montoya acknowledges that he has no church or temple, and his office is plainly decorated, with no evidence of Santeria. His church, the Sacerdocio Lucumi Shango Eyeife, is listed in Florida corporate records as a for-profit company. He brands himself ''Maximo Sacerdote General,'' or Maximum High Priest.

Montoya said the Treasury Department's religious license places no restrictions on the number of people allowed to travel to Cuba under that license, or the frequency of visits. He provided The Herald a copy of his license.

He also provided The Herald a copy of an application people must fill out if they want to travel to Cuba under his religious license. Applicants must swear that they are part of his religion and get the letter notarized. The application named Heidy Gonzalez as an applicant and showed a telephone number. When The Herald called the number, a man named Braulio Rodriguez said Heidy Gonzalez was a 1-year-old baby and that he was her grandfather.

Rodriguez said he had no idea how her name came to be on an application for travel to Cuba and that as far as he knew, she would not be traveling to Cuba as the application stated.

When quizzed about potential abuses, Montoya pointed to another supposed Santeria group that has a religious travel license, Santa Yemaya Ministries. Montoya said his own research shows that many of the people traveling to Cuba under religious licenses today travel through Santa Yemaya.

Florida corporate records show that Santa Yemaya Ministries was established in October 2003 by Fabio Galoppi. The principal place of business address, according to corporate records, is 9741 NW 31 St., a house in a gated community in Doral. It is listed as a nonprofit company.

The official explanation given by Fabio Galoppi to incorporate Santa Yemaya, according to corporate records, is ''to spread the word of God across the world.'' Santa Yemaya Ministries' website boasts a 15-day travel itinerary in Cuba filled with Santeria tourist stops at places such as Casa Templo and The Yoruba Center.

A woman who described herself as Fabio Galoppi's wife when phoned by The Herald declined to comment. She referred questions to a Pierre Galoppi.

Pierre Galoppi, who owns Estrella de Cuba Travel in West Miami-Dade and PWG Trading Corp., confirmed that Santa Yemaya has a religious travel license. He declined to describe his relationship to Fabio Galoppi.

''I can assure you that our agency and our ministry are in full compliance with all regulations,'' Pierre Galoppi said.

'SENSITIVE INDUSTRY'

When asked how many people travel to Cuba under Santa Yemaya's license, or whether Fabio Galoppi is a Santero, Galoppi declined to comment.

''It's a very sensitive industry,'' he said. "I have no idea how many people we're talking about.''

Pedro Gonzalez-Munne, owner of Cuba Promotions, an agency that promotes travel to Cuba, said he has done business with Pierre Galoppi and is familiar with his enterprise.

''Since the new restrictions kicked in in July to now, PWG Trading has 33 to 34 percent of the total market of people that travel to Cuba,'' Gonzalez-Munne said. "Is this a situation of freedom of religions, or are they using their religion for travel and profit?''

The Santeria travel wars have spilled over into local media. Montoya said community leaders and radio commentators have singled him out for criticism on Miami's Spanish-language radio stations. That has prompted Montoya to buy four full-page ads in El Nuevo Herald since November, defending his travel practices.

''We continue to deny the disinformation campaign that some radio stations have established that intend, for politics, to violate our religious rights,'' said an open letter from Shango Eyeife published in El Nuevo Herald on Jan. 24. "Our institution has nothing to do with other people who possess licenses for our religious practices issued by Treasury.''

RELIGION AS PLOY

Ernesto Pichardo, Miami-Dade's best known Santero, who once took a case about animal sacrifices to the U.S. Supreme Court, said the groups "are not authorized, legitimate religious organizations in Cuba or here.''

''We've started doing homework,'' Pichardo said. "I've gotten people from New York, D.C., all over. They have bought into this little deal of buying into [Montoya's] membership . . . to fly to Cuba on a religious visa.''

Cooper, the Gulf Stream CEO, said air travel to Cuba plunged after the restrictions kicked in. For example, his company used to fly five planes a week with 600 seats to the island. Now he flies only about 123 seats a week. However, in the past month, he said, business has picked up again, partly because of religious-license travel.

Pichardo said a signal that Shango Eyeife and Santa Yemaya may not be legitimate religious groups is that neither has a church or temple in Miami.

He said that he doubts they have churches in Cuba, because the Cuban government has never authorized Santeria.

Gonzalez-Munne said the trend shows that people will do whatever it takes to get to Cuba, and business people are thinking creatively to make it happen.

''People are not traveling because they are Babalaos, let's speak clearly,'' Gonzalez-Munne said, using a term meaning priest. "They are traveling because they have no other way to get to Cuba.''

The Miami Herald

Groups warned to obey travel limits

The U.S. government warned religious organizations not to abuse their travel privileges to Cuba -- a move meant to enforce tightened restrictions on the island.

BY OSCAR CORRAL

[email]pcorral@herald.com[/email]

The U.S. government is cracking down on certain religious organizations that promote licensed travel to Cuba, restricting the number of visitors they can send to ensure that limits on U.S. citizen travel to -- and spending in -- Cuba are enforced.

The Office of Foreign Assets Control sent letters to dozens of organizations that have U.S.-issued religious licenses for travel to Cuba, warning them not to abuse their privileges and announcing investigations into alleged wrongdoing, according to a copy of the letter obtained by The Herald.

The regulators also imposed a limit on the number of people who can travel to Cuba under the auspices of these religious groups: 25 every three months. There were no limits previously.

Regulators acted after reports that some groups that practice Santeria and other religious organizations were allowing people who didn't officially belong to those groups or were not practitioners to visit Cuba under their U.S.-issued religious licenses.

The Herald detailed cases in which some Santeria organizations in Miami with religious licenses were taking thousands of people to Cuba as a way to get around Bush administration travel restrictions.

The numbers of such visitors have boomed since July, when the Bush administration reduced the number of times Cubans can visit their families on the island from once a year to once every three years.

Its purpose was to reduce cash remittances to the island and increase financial pressures on Fidel Castro's government.

PROBE UNDER WAY

'The United States Government has become aware that some organizations may be abusing their licenses by allowing individuals not affiliated with the organizations to travel under the authority of their licenses,' said the letter signed by OFAC Director Robert Werner.

``OFAC is currently investigating reports of abuse of religious licenses and will take appropriate action against groups and individuals that have engaged in transactions outside the scope of a license.'

The 25-person-per-quarter limit doesn't apply to what the government calls 'established churches,' such as the Roman Catholic Church. These organizations get licenses that don't limit the number of travelers to Cuba.

In his letter, Werner warned:

• Groups that hold religious licenses are prohibited from advertising Cuba trips on television, radio or the Internet;

• People or groups traveling under the licenses must be 'involved in religious activities' with the organizations, apart from their travel to Cuba.

'Individuals who associate with your organization primarily for the purpose of traveling to Cuba are not authorized to travel under your license,' Werner said.

'SCANDALOUS' CASE

U.S. Rep. Lincoln Diaz-Balart, R-Miami, calling the abuse of religious travel 'scandalous,' pressured regulators to clamp down after The Herald's report in February.

'The administration is not going to permit the flouting of the law,' Diaz-Balart said. ``I think this is going to end the abuse in so-called religious travel.'

The Office of Foreign Assets Control, part of the Treasury Department, has given about 200 churches and organizations religious licenses to travel to Cuba.

By some estimates, religious travel makes up from 85 to 95 percent of all nonaffiliated travel to Cuba, said Pedro Gonzalez-Munne, owner of Cuba Promotions, an agency that promotes travel to Cuba. Munne defined affiliated travel as people who go with business, sports or educational visas.

IMPACT ON FAMILIES

Munne said that before July, about 250,000 people traveled to Cuba legally from the United States every year. That number has dropped by a third since July.

Munne decried regulators' action as harmful to families.

'This is the last bridge left for people to go see their families,' he said of religious licenses. ``This will increase traffic through third countries.'

Munne also said that the July restriction left people little choice but to find loopholes -- such as using religious licenses -- to see family in Cuba.

Jose Montoya, head of the Sacerdocio Lucumi Shango Eyeife in Miami, said that between 1996 and July 2004, he took about 60 people to Cuba under his religious travel license. Since July, he has taken about 2,500, he said.

'The possibility exists that they are violating the religious rights of people, and going against the Constitution of the United States,' Montoya said in an interview Thursday.

Montoya said he will be more judicious in choosing travelers.

'I don't think I'm going to give it [the license] to everyone,' he said. ``I was not giving it to everyone before, but I'm going to be more strict now.'

GROUP SUSPENDED

Both Montoya and Gonzalez-Munne say that OFAC has suspended the license of another, Doral-based Santero group, Santa Yemaya Ministries, pending an investigation by OFAC.

OFAC declined to comment, and The Herald could not immediately confirm their account.

Montoya said his own research shows that many of the people traveling to Cuba under religious licenses were going through Santa Yemaya.

Diaz-Balart is Enemy #1 for a lot of reasons, but generally for holding relations between the US and Cuba hostage for the sake of his personal family feud (His aunt was Fidel's first wife). There are too many Cuban Americans still living in fantasy land. The truth is this has nothing to do with principal or freedom, but money. They think that when Fidel dies they are just going to walk back into Cuba and retake the property their families lost 45 years ago. That's about as likely as the Palestinians doing the same. Elian Gonzalez' mother did not come here looking for freedom, she came to be with her boyfriend, who was already here. Etc., etc., etc. Miami is the only place I know in this hemisphere with less liberty, less freedom and less truth than Cuba.

Doc Bill,

Point very well made: I couldn't agree more. Sadley no one is telling these things (and more....) to the good people of the USA. I think that is a tragedy, and in the final analysis a loss the the USA and its people.

When things change (I'm sure you will agree that its just a matter of time) there will be some real trouble and also a lot of hurt. I feel for the Cubans as I think they are the ones who will get the "shaft"; the America-Cubans will have little care for their rights. Your example of Palestinians and Israel is very appropriate indeed.

Regards, Havanaman

Thanks Havanaman, and good to hear from you! I hope you worked out that situation you got yourself into awhile back. Anyway, yes, in my studies of Cuban history it is always the Cuban people who got screwed for the benefit of others. I suppose the prime example is the so-called "Spanish-American War," which would more aptly be called "The War to Prevent Cuban Independence at Any Cost." The Americans took all the credit and the Cuban fighters were just brushed aside and ignored (largely because they were Black). I fear that no matter what happens, and I don't think things will change soon or quickly, the good people of Cuba will again get fucked, by within and/or by their brethren in Miami. Anyone who has met and known some of them knows what a tragedy this is.

I would be interested if the OFAC fines climb higher with this measure.

[url]http://www.treas.gov/offices/enforcement/ofac/civpen/penalties/04012005.pdf[/url]

Passenger Lists Sought For Flights Over U.S.

By Sara Kehaulani Goo
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, April 21, 2005; Page A01

The U.S. government plans to force foreign airlines flying over American soil to turn over the names of passengers on board or check the names against U.S. government watch lists in an effort to prevent terrorists from entering U.S. airspace.

Under current rules, overseas carriers are required to provide passenger manifests to U.S. officials within 15 minutes of takeoff if they are to land in the United States, according to the Transportation Security Administration.

Officials have been concerned that terrorists may try to hijack a plane over the United States and crash it into a building, as occurred on Sept. 11, 2001. Officials acknowledge, however, that no credible intelligence exists indicating such a plot.

"We are currently considering a measure that would require foreign carriers to vet their passenger manifests against the 'no-fly' list and 'selectee' lists on overflights," said TSA spokeswoman Yolanda Clark. The no-fly list is a secret list of thousands of names of known or suspected terrorists who may pose a threat to U.S. aviation. The selectee list contains the names of individuals who are not known terrorists but present a possible threat to the airplane.

The proposal has angered European, Mexican and Canadian airlines, which operate most of the 500 estimated daily overflights. If foreign airlines do not comply with the order, which is expected to be issued in coming weeks, they could have to reroute flights, adding time and cost to the journeys. At least one carrier, Aeromexico, claims the rule would violate international aviation agreements.

The TSA's proposal, discussed in recent days with foreign leaders, was prompted by a KLM Royal Dutch Airlines flight from Amsterdam to Mexico on April 8 that was prohibited from flying over American airspace because two passengers were found to be on the U.S. government's no-fly list.

The KLM flight, a specially configured 747 with 278 passengers and 15 horses on board, was five hours into its journey when Mexican authorities alerted U.S. officials about two Saudi passengers on board. TSA officials decided not to allow the plane to continue on its usual route over the United States.

The Canadian government offered the plane an option to land on its territory if the aircraft did not have enough fuel for a return trip, a Canadian official said. But KLM decided to turn the plane around for the five-hour flight back to Amsterdam out "of interest to the passengers and animals," KLM spokesman Hugo Baas said in an e-mail. "The assigned airport was not suitable for handling a 747 in this configuration." KLM is a leading air transporter of horses and operates an animal hospital at Schiphol Airport in Amsterdam.

The two Saudi passengers on the KLM flight were men who trained at the same Arizona flight school as Sept. 11 hijacker Hani Hanjour, according a law enforcement source. The men, according to aviation sources, were questioned by Dutch officials and eventually allowed to fly back to Saudi Arabia. U.S. officials did not interview the men, according to law enforcement and Homeland Security sources.

A Homeland Security official familiar with the proposed rules said U.S. and foreign officials are negotiating over whether airlines or the U.S. government would check passenger names against the watch lists. If any names match those on the lists, airlines would have to undertake new security measures.

For example, if a flight from Canada to Mexico were to have a passenger whose name matched one on the no-fly list, the flight would not be allowed into U.S. airspace. The passenger would have to be removed from the flight, or if the plane happened to already be in the air, it would have to fly around the United States to reach its destination, according to officials familiar with the plans. Similarly, if a passenger's name were to match one on the selectee list, the passenger would have to undergo more thorough security screening before boarding the plane, the sourcesaid.

Aeromexico, which has 18 weekly flights from Mexico City that cross U.S. airspace on their way to Europe, said that the U.S. proposal might violate international transit agreements and that it is consulting with the Mexican transportation department to "present our legal position for this potential requirement."

"This potential directive will restrict our privilege to fly across U.S. territory without landing, and to land for non-traffic purposes," said Fernando Ceballos, Aeromexico's assistant director for airport operations, in an e-mailed statement. If the TSA issues the requirement, he said, it would not be practical to fly around the U.S. coast. "Flying over water along the coast is not an option for Aeromexico as increased flight times would be prohibitive given the type of aircraft we use, our slots and crew requirements."

TSA's spokesman Clark said, "We are working with our international partners to give thoughtful consideration to all aspects of the impact of this measure."

The rule change would affect many of Canada's estimated 1,000 weekly overflights, including domestic flights such as Montreal to Toronto, which fly over the United States because of geography and weather patterns. "We're currently gathering information from air carriers to evaluate the impact that the proposed amendment would have," said Vanessa Vermette, spokeswoman for Transport Canada.

KLM said that it is now checking its passenger lists against U.S. watch lists for its overflights, following the recent incident.

"It is not up to an airline to judge the security measures of individual countries," KLM spokesman Baas said. "However, it is up to the responsible authorities of each country to safeguard that measures do not have negative counter effects on the daily operation of the airlines."
[url]http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A6015-2005Apr20.html?nav=rss_business[/url]

[QUOTE=Doc Bill]The Americans took all the credit and the Cuban fighters were just brushed aside and ignored (largely because they were Black).[/QUOTE]Were the Cuban fighters (Mambises) mostly black!? At the time the black population in Cuba was not that large and most were slaves. I guess that when you have a ball and chain around your ancle, independence is not a priority. The rich and the middle class have always been behind the wars fought in Cuba. Poor people do not have the time and means to fight.

[QUOTE=Havanaman]When things change (I'm sure you will agree that its just a matter of time) there will be some real trouble and also a lot of hurt. I feel for the Cubans as I think they are the ones who will get the "shaft"; the America-Cubans will have little care for their rights.

Regards, Havanaman[/QUOTE]Well Havanaman, I'm one of those "America-Cubans" and I do care for the Cuban people's right. At least the ones I know in USA are like me. What do they have in Cuba that I can't get in USA?

A Cuban-American is just a Cuban who was lucky enough to get the hell out of there. We're not different than those in the island. I'm curious to know what make you think that we (Cuban-Americans) do not care about those in the island.

Hi Rebel Monger,

Yes, the mambises were mostly Black and mostly from the East (Oriente). At the time of that war about 60% of those living on the island of Cuba were Black or mixed, at least according to the Richard Gott history that I recently read. Rich people may be behind the wars but poor people are the ones usually that get to fight them. Also, many of the Blacks were not slaves by that time.

And with all respect to you as an individual the Cuban-American community has been terrible to their brethren in Cuba since the Revolution, particularly by supporting and maintaining an ineffective embargo that only serves to hurt the Cuban people and has ironically kept Fidel in power all these years. See the latest: Thanks to your congressmen from Miami people can't even send money to or visit their relatives much anymore.

I may not be qualified to speak to this as I am not Cuban or Cuban-American, but I think that if they really cared they would end the embargo, send shiploads and planeloads of tourists to Cuba and watch Castro's house of cards disintegrate in no time.

[QUOTE=Doc Bill]Hi Rebel Monger,

Yes, the mambises were mostly Black and mostly from the East (Oriente). At the time of that war about 60% of those living on the island of Cuba were Black or mixed, at least according to the Richard Gott history that I recently read. Rich people may be behind the wars but poor people are the ones usually that get to fight them. Also, many of the Blacks were not slaves by that time.[/QUOTE]Hello Bill,

As you must know by now, I'm Cuban by birth and American by choice. I grew up and was educated in Cuba under fidel's dictatorship, and you can be sure that if blacks had been a majority in the war against Spain, fidel would have been using that fact as propaganda since day one. I never heard that Mambises were mostly blacks. There were quite a few of them, and they were excellent fighters, Antonio & Jose Maceo, Quintin Banderas, Juan Gualberto Gomez are a few that comes to mind, but majority they were not.

About what you say of the rich and fighting, that's true today, but that wasn't the case in the past.

[QUOTE=Doc Bill]And with all respect to you as an individual the Cuban-American community has been terrible to their brethren in Cuba since the Revolution, particularly by supporting and maintaining an ineffective embargo that only serves to hurt the Cuban people and has ironically kept Fidel in power all these years. See the latest: Thanks to your congressmen from Miami people can't even send money to or visit their relatives much anymore.

I may not be qualified to speak to this as I am not Cuban or Cuban-American, but I think that if they really cared they would end the embargo, send shiploads and planeloads of tourists to Cuba and watch Castro's house of cards disintegrate in no time.[/QUOTE]Yes, I would love to see the embargo lifted, so fidel Castro can "borrow" money from USA (like he's been doing with every country) and not paying it back! About the shipload and planeload of tourists, well, you don't seem to know Fidel. Do you think that he would allow something that would compromise his power!? There's no embargo in other countries and I don't see those shiploads and planeloads from those countries being sent there. You send to Cuba what fidel allows. Could you go to Cuba before the fall of the USSR?

You don't know Fidel and how things work in Cuba. But that's understandable if my assumption is right: you've lived all your live as a free man in a democracy. Things are a little bit different in a totalitarian dictatorship.

P.S.: I come here to talk about women and no politics, but sometimes my Cuban side takes over and I can't help it. So, this is it. If you think that Mambises were black, so be it!

Be safe and healthy, ok Doc!?

RM, I'm going to respectfully disagree, based on my studies, but as always I appreciate the dialogue. If only Miami and Havana could do it as well, we wouldn't even be having to have this discussion.

On an unrelated note I just read today that Mario Diaz-Balart, congressman from Miami (and relative of Fidel's ex wife) had donated $5000 to Tom DeLay's legal defense fund. Need I say more?

DeLay allows him to run the House floor on all matters Cuba. He controls the time, decides who will speak, and for how long. Miami controls Cuba policy with Republicans.

Bill Nelson, a vulnerable first term Dem, isn't any different on Cuba policy. In the Bolton hearings, all he wanted to talk about was Cuba. To prove, no Rep will right flank him on tough Cuba policy.

a legacy of dysfunction:
cuba after fidel


abstract when fidel castro departs, cuba will reach a crossroads. a post-castro regime that attempts to remain communist may find itself in a cul-de-sac where old policies and instruments no longer work. if such a regime should falter, a democratic-leaning replacement government is only a remote possibility. the country will face severe and simultaneous challenges on several fronts: an alienated younger generation, a growing racial divide, an aging population, and a deformed economy. cuba’s civil-society and market actors appear to be too embryonic, and democratic political opposition forces too decimated, for democracy to take hold naturally. more likely the military, arguably cuba’s most important institution, will take control.

edward gonzalez, kevin f. mccarthy
rand corporation *
infosearch:
josé cadenas
research dept.
la nueva cuba
may 3, 2005



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now in his late seventies, fidel castro is nearing the end of his political career after more than 45 years in power. once cuba’s communist caudillo — or strongman — departs, his successors will be saddled with daunting political, social, demographic, and economic problems — in short, a vast array of dysfunctional legacies from the fidelista past.

so concludes a recent study overseen by rand corporation researchers edward gonzalez and kevin mccarthy. drawing upon experts within and outside rand, their comprehensive study identifies five major problem areas, some of them of the regime’s own making and others structural in nature, which either have been worsened or are left unresolved under castro’s long tenure.

legacies of caudilloism and totalitarianism

the collapse of the soviet union in 1991 removed or eroded three of the cuban regime’s four pillars of support — soviet largesse, the “revolution” and the social compact it represented for ordinary cubans, and the once omnipotent totalitarian state apparatus. only “fidel,” the founder of the revolution, remains, but once he is gone a communist successor regime will be without its ruling caudillo and remaining source of legitimacy at a time of mounting crises.

the loss of soviet economic support led to the “special period” of heightened austerity in cuba that continues to this day, and to other severe economic and social dislocations, all of which have eroded popular support for the regime. the near collapse of the island’s economy in the early 1990s also weakened the totalitarian state’s grip over society as cubans engaged increasingly in black market and other illicit activities to survive, while still others pressed for greater economic, social, and political freedom. as a result, cuba’s post-totalitarian state saw signs of an embryonic civil society and even challenges to the regime’s lock on political power. thus, in 2002, the varela project gathered more than 11,000 signatures petitioning the government to enact political and economic reforms.

the castro regime reverted to its totalitarian impulses in march 2003. in sentencing 75 dissidents, independent journalists, and other activists to prison terms ranging from 6 to 28 years, it decapitated an emerging civil society of its potential leadership. together with castro’s practice of caudilloism, this legacy of totalitarianism will leave post-castro cuba without the rule of law and other requisites needed to restrain the power of the state, promote a market economy, and foster civil-society organizations that help sustain democracy.

alienated youth

castro’s revolution has drawn much support from the young, and the regime has looked to cuba’s youth as the future promise of the revolution. but relations between the state and cuba’s youth deteriorated throughout the 1990s, as the young faced new levels of austerity, few opportunities for upward mobility, and a host of unfulfilled aspirations. the result has been a disaffected youth, whose retreat from politics may pose problems for not only a successor communist regime but also a democratically oriented one, because each would lack support from this pivotal, alienated sector.

a festering racial divide

after much progress toward erasing racial inequalities, race-based discrimination and inequalities rose sharply in the 1990s. while most cubans have suffered from the special period’s austerity, afro-cubans — especially blacks — have fared the worst. heavily concentrated in the island’s poorest easternmost provinces, afro-cubans have benefited less from tourism and the other activities of the new economy. compared with whites, afro-cubans receive fewer dollar remittances from abroad, are less likely to be small peasant farmers able to sell surplus produce for hard currency, and largely are excluded from lucrative tourist sector jobs. any successor government will have to better the lot of afro-cubans substantially to retain the support they historically have provided to castro.

an emerging demographic bind

in contrast to its living standards, which are more typical of less-developed countries, cuba’s population structure resembles that of the high-income developed world. this contrast will pose a daunting challenge because cuba’s population is rapidly aging just as the supply of young workers is shrinking.

cuba’s population over the next two decades will decline by 22 percent in each of three age groups (0-4, 5-19, and 20-44), while its census of mature working-age individuals (45-64) and pensioners (65-plus) will jump 70 percent or more. this demographic squeeze between the pension and social service needs of a growing elderly population and a declining labor force will make it very difficult for castro’s successors to continue to support the extensive social services that have historically been one of the real accomplishments of the revolution.

deformed economic institutions and an obsolete and inefficient sugar industry
faced with a severe economic contraction in the early 1990s, the castro regime was compelled to enact a few limited economic reforms. but to transition into a global economy, any post-castro government will need to go much further if it is to overcome systemic problems in the following four economic areas:

unproductive labor. cuba’s labor force is highly educated but unproductive, a situation exacerbated by the state’s commitment to full employment and to a national pay schedule. despite the closure of 45 percent of the island’s most inefficient sugar mills in 2002, the castro regime has kept the displaced workers on the state payroll. the national pay schedule has divorced workers’ wages from their productivity, a policy that has created disincentives among the labor force. the new regime will be faced with a long-term task of motivating workers anew through market incentives.

repressed, deformed private sector. after 40-plus years of communism, cuba’s labor force lacks the trained managers, accountants, auditors, bankers, insurers, and other professionals that a robust market economy requires. in 2001, there were only 150,000 micro-enterprises in cuba, a number that had fallen by one-quarter from four years earlier.

corrupt society and state. corruption and favoritism are commonplace in cuba. most materials on the black market are stolen or misappropriated from state enterprises and warehouses. inside deals between individuals and their government contacts are also commonplace.

postponed economic restructuring. cuba also suffers from a distorted industrial structure that is a legacy of its nearly three decades of economic dependence on the soviet union. during that period, cuba concentrated on producing sugar, which it exported to the ussr at exorbitant prices, and relied on imports of soviet oil at well below world market prices. despite the restructuring of the sugar industry that began in 2002, production has plummeted, and a new government will be faced with further scaling down the industry, introducing efficiency measures, and developing a more balanced industrial structure.

cuba’s problematic future and the military’s indeterminate role
cuba’s problems are interconnected and will pose difficult policy choices for any post-castro government. given the internal and external challenges facing a successor regime, and the likelihood that an immediate successor communist regime will be unwilling or unable to introduce the reforms necessary to overcome those challenges, the cuban armed forces (far) are certain to play an important role in the post-castro transition. how constructive far’s role will be remains to be seen, but likely it will be contingent not only on post-castro succession dynamics at play within cuba but also on u.s. policy and the actions of the cuban-american community.


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this product is part of the rand corporation research brief series. rand research briefs present policy-oriented summaries of individual published, peer-reviewed documents or of a body of published work.

this research brief describes work documented in cuba after castro: legacies, challenges, and impediments by edward gonzalez and kevin f. mccarthy, mg-111-rc, 2004, 150 pages, isbn: 0-8330-3535-5 (full document) and cuba after castro: legacies, challenges, and impediments: appendices by edward gonzalez and kevin f. mccarthy, tr-131-rc, 2004, 216 pages, isbn: 0-8330-3573-8 (full document). these documents are available by clicking above or through rand distribution services (phone: 310-451-7002; toll free: 877-584-8642).

copyright © 2004 rand corporation

the rand corporation is a nonprofit research organization providing objective analysis and effective solutions that address the challenges facing the public and private sectors around the world. rand’s publications do not necessarily reflect the opinions of its research clients and sponsors.

rb-9041-rc (2004)





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copyright © 1997-2005 - la nueva cuba
all rights reserved.

Apart from everything else happening, the human spirit lives on and so does the spirit of adventure. 90 miles may not look like much, in the global view, however it’s still far away!

[url]http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,91059-13367111,00.html[/url]


THE REFUGEE WATER TAXI

When a group of Cuban refugees decided to make for America's shores, how to get there was simple - they hailed a cab!Actually, they made it themselves, converting a vintage blue American taxi into a boat and setting sail.Thirteen people, including two children, attempted the 90-mile ocean crossing.Rafael Diaz, 40, and his friends had spent weeks converting the 1949 Mercury.His aunt, who lives in Miami, said they water-proofed it by welding shut the doors.Mastic compound was used to reinforce the seals. A large buoyancy tank shaped like a prow was welded on the front and empty oil drums were put in the boot for added buoyancy.

An outboard motor was attached to the rear bumper and the front wheels provided basic directional control.The immigrants were intercepted by US Coast Guards just 20 miles off Florida.If they had been successful their taxi, a sought-after vehicle in the States, would have fetched thousands of pounds.Old American cars are still common in Cuba, since the US banned exports to the communist island.Previous bids to get to America have involved converted fridges and bathtubs.

I was in cuba at the end of May for a week. 8 guys on a bachelor party with a tour guide. We had a great time. I highly recommend going to any of the beaches in Havanna to meet girls. They are all approachable and you can usually take them home with you after about 10-30 minutes of conversations. The girls at the clubs are too aggressive and too much like pros but I guess it depends on your taste. Often girls you see walking around are not pros that work on a daily basis but would be willing to get together if you talk the time to show interest. Speaking poor spanish seems to be a plus!

I tend to look at ALL the news from as many places as possible before making my mind up. Its the only way we can get to the "truth": not just the "truth" according to the speaker. Heres some interesting news:

From: [url]http://www.aljazeera.com/cgi-bin/review/article_full_story.asp?service_ID=9652[/url]


Undeclared war on Cuba
9/30/2005 2:30:00 PM GMT


"It is unfounded, unfair, and, moreover, deeply illegal"

The number of Americans travelling to Cuba has dropped dramatically, also the number of those the U.S, government fines for visiting the island without permission is on the rise.The Cuban government has launched its annual international campaign against the illegal U.S. embargo, which prohibits all trade between the two countries except for the sale to Cuba of some U.S. food and medicineExpressing grieve for the impact the embargo left on Cuba, Vice Foreign Minister Bruno Rodriguez Parrilla said:"We are talking about an economic war against our country," Rodriguez said."It is unfounded, unfair, and, moreover, deeply illegal."Cuba lost $82-billion in trade since 1960 when the U.S. first imposed the embargo a year after the Cuban revolution thrust Fidel Castro into power.The embargo prohibits any third-country nation doing business with the island. Economists say that if the sanctions are lifted that would bring up to 100 000 new jobs to the country and increased revenues of $6-billion a year. Criminal penalties for violating the embargo range up to ten years in prison, $1 million in corporate fines, and $250,000 in individual fines; civil penalties up to $55,000 per violation may also be imposed.Commenting on the drop in the number of those travelling from the U.S. to Cuba, Rodriguez said visits to the island by Cuban-Americans are down by almost 50%, with 40% fewer other Americans coming.A report released ahead of an upcoming vote on the embargo at the United Nations revealed 57 145 Cuban-Americans returned to visit their native country last year compared with 115 050 in 2003. While the number of non- American tourists went from 85 809 in 2003 to 51 027 last year, the report said, adding that the numbers continued to decrease in 2005.At the same time, those who defy U.S. travel restrictions are more likely to be fined under Bush's government, according to the report.In Q1 2005, the U.S. Treasury Department's Office of Foreign Assets Control fined 307 Americans for unauthorized travel to Cuba, the report said.The embargo, which was originally imposed with the aim of preventing Castro's socialist program from succeeding and serving as a model for other Latin American countries, thus having a domino effect, has been criticised by numerous analysts who said that it has proved its failure since Castro is still in power and the nation is still communist. And although China and Vietnam are also communist nations, the United States still trades with them. Critics say that Washington’s policy hurts average Cubans more than Castro.If the American public knew how much hardship the embargo caused Cubans in their daily life, they would surely demand its end, Rodriguez said.Any company that has business with Cuba is barred from dealing with the United States, and thus, companies are forced to choose between dealing with Cuba or the United States, a much stronger market. The U.S. embargo has been condemned by the UN General Assembly for the 13th time in 2004. Last year's UN resolution calling for the embargo to be lifted was approved by a vote of 179-4, the U.S., Israel, the Marshall Islands and Palau were the only states rejecting the resolution.The only trading partners of Cuba are: Spain, Venezuela, the Netherlands and Canada. Source: Mail&Guardian

Nicaragua's Creeping Coup
Monday, October 3, 2005; Page A16
[url]http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/02/AR2005100200818.html[/url]

MANY PEOPLE outside Latin America probably assume Daniel Ortega's political career ended 15 years ago when his ruinous attempt to install a Marxist dictatorship in Nicaragua ended with an election he decisively lost. The slightly better informed might suppose that his two subsequent electoral defeats, the allegations of corruption and child molestation that haunt him, or his single-digit rating in opinion polls have made him a marginal figure in Nicaraguan politics. Sadly, the truth is otherwise: Thanks to the weakness of the country's new democratic institutions, Mr. Ortega is close to regaining power and to broadening the Latin alliance of undemocratic states now composed by Cuba and Venezuela.

Mr. Ortega's comeback has been accomplished through a brazenly corrupt alliance with a former right-wing president, Arnoldo Aleman, who was sentenced to 20 years in prison in 2003 for looting the national treasury. Mr. Ortega's Sandinista Party supported the prosecution, then abruptly switched sides and formed a pact with Mr. Aleman against President Enrique Bolanos, a member of Mr. Aleman's Liberal Party who bravely chose to tackle government corruption. The left-right alliance has used its majority in the National Assembly to rewrite the constitution and stack the Supreme Court. In the past week it has begun stripping the members of Mr. Bolanos's cabinet of immunity so that they can be prosecuted before Sandinista judges on bogus charges. If this power play succeeds, Mr. Bolanos will be next. Meanwhile, Mr. Aleman, who stole tens of millions from one of Latin America's poorest countries, was freed from house arrest last week.

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Mr. Ortega's goal is to force Mr. Bolanos to accept his constitutional rewrite, which transfers almost all presidential powers to Congress. That would effectively deliver Nicaragua to Sandinista control without one of the elections that Mr. Ortega keeps losing. Scheduled elections next year could then be manipulated. Already, the corrupt alliance has lowered the percentage of the vote a presidential candidate needs to be elected to 35, and criminal charges have been brought against one of the leading candidates. The Sandinistas will have plenty of money to spend, thanks to Hugo Chavez. Mr. Ortega recently announced that he had arranged with Venezuela's self-styled "Bolivarian revolutionary" for a supply of subsidized oil.

Compared with Mr. Chavez's aggressive intervention, attempts by the Bush administration and other outsiders to save Nicaraguan democracy so far look feckless. The new secretary general of the Organization of American States, Jose Miguel Insulza, tried to broker a political compromise but pronounced himself frustrated when Mr. Ortega ignored his appeals to stop undermining Mr. Bolanos's government. The Bush administration managed to win congressional passage of the Central American Free Trade Agreement this summer, but Mr. Ortega has blocked its ratification by Nicaragua.

Deputy Secretary of State Robert B. Zoellick is due to visit Managua this week in what officials say will be an attempt to bolster Mr. Bolanos and persuade Mr. Aleman's right-wing supporters to abandon their self-destructive alliance with the Sandinistas. As happens so often in Latin America during the Bush administration, high-level intervention arrives late. It does have one thing going for it: Eighty percent of Nicaraguans say they oppose the Ortega-Aleman pact. Nicaragua's rescue will depend on people power, inside or outside the polls.

in the first two weeks of oct, a live shot of castro was no where to be found. cuban tv resorted to taped fluff 10 second pieces of everyone's daddy, sporting a warm smile in front of the kids.

i found out in oct from reliable cuban sources, the old man had a brain aneurysm. in a carpeted media story today, we discover the us government has settled on parkinson's disease, with a information lag time of 4-6 weeks.

castro was back in a seat for the tv roundtable discussion about wilma. he hijacked the chat about wilma and turned it into a personal anti-usa rant about everything under the sun, moon, and stars of new orleans.

it was fitting the electric was cut off, and cut him off at 9:30pm, sunday, oct 23. little did he know, he had his own flooding, housing, food, and electric problems on the horizon.

the was no food in the markets for peso cubano, cup for 3 days, in a non-flooded area. the weekend after the storm in vedado, the only food available was bread, cream cheese, and cookies in divisa, cuc.

posted on wed, nov. 16, 2005
castro has parkinson's disease, cia has concluded

two officials said the cia is convinced that cuban leader fidel castro suffers from parkinson's disease. the agency has made a point of alerting u.s. policymakers.

by pablo bachelet and frances robles
[email]pbachelet@herald.com[/email]

washington - the cia has alerted policymakers over the potential eroding of fidel castro's health.

the cia recently concluded that cuban leader fidel castro suffers from parkinson's disease and has warned u.s. policymakers to be ready for trouble if the 79-year-old ruler's health erodes over the next few years.

if true, the cia's assessment of the nonfatal but debilitating condition would mean castro may be entering a period where doctors say the symptoms grow more evident, medicines are less effective and mental functions start to deteriorate.

although castro's brother raúl, head of the armed forces, has been anointed as his successor, cuba analysts fear the possibility of a tumultuous period during which an incapacitated castro refuses to give up power but can no longer project his overpowering personality to cuba's 11 million people.

''for fidel to start shaking in a real and substantial way -- in public -- sends quite a powerful message to people around the world,'' said frank o. mora, a professor of national security strategy at the national war college.

rumors that castro suffers from parkinson's have been around since the mid-1990s. in 1998, he even jokingly challenged journalists to a pistol duel at 25 paces to show the steadiness of his hands.

but the central intelligence agency began briefing senior members of the state department and lawmakers about one year ago that its doctors had become convinced that castro was diagnosed with the disease around 1998, said two longtime government officials familiar with the briefings. both asked for anonymity because leaking the contents of the classified briefing could violate u.s. laws.

''about one year ago, we started seeing some pretty definitive stuff that he had parkinson's,'' said one of them.

there has been no independent confirmation of castro's illness, or any indication of how the cia came to its conclusion. the state department and the cia declined to comment for this story.

but one state department official said there is already evidence that castro's abilities are fading noticeably. he is increasingly slurring his words and going off on tangents in public speeches, although he seems to have good days and bad days. clearly, ''he is not the same person he was five years ago,'' added the official.

others insist that castro is fine, however. ''he enjoys excellent health,'' ricardo alarcón, president of cuba's national assembly, said last month after he was asked about castro's failure to attend the ibero-american summit in spain.

parkinson's symptoms include tremors, stiffness, difficulty with balance and muffled speech, although its exact manifestations vary according to the victim. high-profile individuals stricken with the disease include the late pope john paul ii, former u.s. attorney general janet reno, actor michael j. fox and boxer muhammad ali.

dr. carlos singer, a parkinson's expert at the university of miami, said the disease on average cuts short the lifespan of a patient only by one or two years. ''the issue is not as much how long they can live, it is how much do they suffer in the process,'' he said.

the first five to eight years usually are ''manageable with relatively small doses of medication,'' singer said. after that, symptoms such as stooped postures and difficulties with balance become more evident. and in the advanced stages, about 40 percent of patients develop what one specialist on the disease called ``basically an overall decline in cognitive functions.''

drug eases symptoms

the main drug to ease the symptoms of the disease is levodopa, which replenishes the brain with the dopamine chemical that is deficient in parkinson's. patients can program their activities around the periods when the drug is taking effect, known to doctors as ''on periods.'' but over time, the drug loses its effectiveness.

''as the disease slowly progresses, the medications have to be taken more frequently, at higher doses,'' said paul larson, a neurosurgeon and parkinson's specialist at the university of california, san francisco. 'but you eventually reach a point where the patient is fluctuating between an `on period' and an 'off period' so frequently that you can't, in essence, keep up with just medications.''

possible side effects of levodopa are involuntary movements and facial grimaces, as well as visual hallucinations. as both parkinson's and the drug can cause blood pressure to drop, patients can sometimes faint, singer said.

fainted, nodded off

castro has displayed some signs of ill health in recent years, though perhaps no worse than other 79-year-olds.

castro fainted during a speech in a havana suburb in 2001 and was seen almost collapsing during the inauguration of argentine president néstor kirchner in 2003. a public tumble last year left him with a fractured knee and arm, and former ecuador president lucio gutiérrez wrote in his recent book that he had to prop up a nodding-off castro several times while sitting next to him at an international event.

cuba watchers also noted castro was not shown touring the areas of havana hit by hurricane wilma, something out of character for a man who has personally managed every crisis in cuba since taking power in early 1959, from the 1961 bay of pigs invasion to the elián gonzález affair in 2000.

for u.s. policymakers, the report that castro may suffer from parkinson's has sparked concerns about cuba's political stability down the road.

''it's going to be harder for fidel to go out and perform, and he's been performing the guerrilla theater for 50 years,'' said brian latell, a retired cia analyst on cuba. latell is the author of after fidel, a new book about castro and his brother raúl, the world's longest-serving defense minister and the sole designated successor of castro.

larger questions

damián fernández, director of florida international university's cuban research institute, said the larger questions are how castro's subordinates would react to his mental or physical erosion, and how that could affect raúl's role as cuba's no. 2.

''i envision raúl trying to forge key alliances with subordinates in the military and among civilians to rule very tightly,'' he said. ''but i don't know how this could sustain itself without delivering benefits'' to the cuban people.

that's assuming that raúl, 74, does not die before his brother. that would leave fidel without a clear successor and the powerful military, now controlled by the younger brother, without a widely recognized or respected leader.

the result might be political turmoil as senior government officials jockey for power with a fidel castro too infirm to make vital decisions.

''the revolution could be hanging by a thread,'' latell said.

but that may be some time away. during his recent tv interview with argentine soccer star diego maradona, castro said that rumors of his health were so frequent that ``the day that i die, nobody is going to believe it.''

for somebody with parkinsons he sure hides it pretty well. yesterday in front of the comite he spoke for over 3 and 1/2 hours straight, and then made a 1 hour speech in the plaza de la revolucion. spoke to my auntee last night, and she agreed with me, he has a few more years in him. his homosexual brother will probably die or get assasinated before he does, so the waiting game continues.

I also read that he had Parkinsons.

Life expectancy in Cuba is ranked as 50th in the world, and at 73.84 years for men (78.73 years for women). Our bearded friend is now 80 years old. He has exceeded his countries average. I wish him a few more years.

I say this of course, ignoring any “wrong doings” we may point in his direction; but then which politician / country leader is innocent?

Mr. Arbusto, ex-alcoholic, bible thumper and common electoral cheat is guiltier of even more heinous crimes against humanity than the bearded one…

I wonder which of these two leaders is responsible for more unnecessary deaths?

Regards, Havanaman

[QUOTE=Havanaman]I also read that he had Parkinsons.

Life expectancy in Cuba is ranked as 50th in the world, and at 73.84 years for men (78.73 years for women). Our bearded friend is now 80 years old. He has exceeded his countries average. I wish him a few more years.

I say this of course, ignoring any “wrong doings” we may point in his direction; but then which politician / country leader is innocent?

Mr. Arbusto, ex-alcoholic, bible thumper and common electoral cheat is guiltier of even more heinous crimes against humanity than the bearded one…

I wonder which of these two leaders is responsible for more unnecessary deaths?

Regards, Havanaman[/QUOTE]If you ask [B]that[/B] question, it means that you made your mind already, and of course, I know who your choice for the [B]guiltiest[/B] is! I bet you don't have any idea of how many people (Cubans and not Cubans) have died due to fidel's actions since he took power.
About where Cuba ranks in anything, nobody (not even the Cuban government) knows that. Statistics in the island are a result of [B] what looks good[/B] for the regime, not reality. Of course you won't believe any of that. To you, fidel is [B]perfect[/B]. In reality, for you, he is, without him......

[QUOTE=Rebel Monger]If you ask [B]that[/B] question, it means that you made your mind already, and of course, I know who your choice for the [B]guiltiest[/B] is! I bet you don't have any idea of how many people (Cubans and not Cubans) have died due to fidel's actions since he took power.
About where Cuba ranks in anything, nobody (not even the Cuban government) knows that. Statistics in the island are a result of [B] what looks good[/B] for the regime, not reality. Of course you won't believe any of that. To you, fidel is [B]perfect[/B]. In reality, for you, he is, without him......[/QUOTE]

Well let me see: Wise up and start thinking before making judgements:

[QUOTE=Rebel Monger]If you ask [B]that[/B] question, it means that you made your mind already,......[/QUOTE]

How do you know that I made my mind up: YOU know NOTHING about me. We can all see and know that you are quick to make judgements about others! So we know about you.

Is it by magic that you know these things?


[QUOTE=Rebel Monger] I bet you don't have any idea of how many people (Cubans and not Cubans) have died due to fidel's actions since he took power.......[/QUOTE]

You are 100% right. I have no idea. No one does, except maybe you when you use the same magic you used earlier to know what I am thinking!


[QUOTE=Rebel Monger] About where Cuba ranks in anything, nobody (not even the Cuban government) knows that. Statistics in the island are a result of what looks good for the regime, not reality........[/QUOTE]

Try doing a simple search in yahoo or goggle: just type in the words “life expectancy in cuba”.

Let me help you: [url]http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/rankorder/2102rank.html[/url]

This is a CIA site…. Last time I looked C.I.A. was an American institution…. There are many such sites giving a lot of data about many countries. There are academic institutions which make special studies on age, longevity and socio-economic correlations: just do the searches and you can see the data.

Alternatively just tune in your magic and see what you get before you start to flame… Get my point or do you need it explaining?

[QUOTE=Rebel Monger] To you, fidel is perfect......[/QUOTE]

That’s your magic again isn’t it? You seem to know what I am thinking…. I guess you must be really angry with me right now because I am having some strong thoughts about you!

Of course Fidel is not perfect. He is a shit, just like Arbusto! I have disliked the man since I heard him speak at the Malecon, in the late ‘70’s and many times since then.


[QUOTE=Rebel Monger] In reality, for you, he is, without him......[/QUOTE] I have no idea what you are trying to say here: perhaps if you learned better English instead of wasting peoples time using your magic to know what they are saying, it would be possible to have an intelligent conversation with you…

Regards, Havanaman

latell: succession in cuba may have begun

brian latell, former top cuba analyst for the cia, and now a researcher at um's institute for cuban and cuban-american studies, believes the succession of power from fidel castro to his brother raul may have already begun. he writes this month in his latell report:

"signs of what is probably accelerating succession planning at the highest levels of the castro regime have been multiplying since early this month. as fidel castro’s ability to provide coherent leadership has conspicuously deteriorated, his brother raul seems to be assuming broader responsibilities while also reaching out to improve his image with the cuban people. these developments could even indicate that raul has already assumed critical responsibilities from his brother and is now acting as cuba’s de facto top decision maker.

"raul has been asserting personal control over the communist party apparatus, highlighting its likely enhanced role in the future. he has been focusing intense and sympathetic media attention on himself, while also emphasizing the strength and unity of the armed forces he has run since 1959. he has been out in public much more than has been customary, regularly now appearing on the front page of the official communist party daily, granma. cuban media coverage of the younger castro has reached such unprecedented intensity in fact, that it seems logical to conclude that he has authorized the creation of his own public relations staff. always deferential to fidel’s starring role in the cuban revolution, raul would never in the past have presumed to upstage his brother this way.

"the media blitz began on june 3rd, raul’s 75th birthday, when granma, ran a remarkable, extended paean to the defense minister. under the headline cercania de raul, literally translated as “nearness” to raul, the article was intended in part to project a sympathetic image of a leader who has never been popular with the cuban people. but the spanish language title of the article also suggests a possibly momentous double meaning: cercania de raul might also be translated as the “proximity of raul,” suggesting that his ascent to power in his own right has begun, or is imminent. i do not believe that raul has ever been the subject of such unusual and personalized media attention."

"the granma birthday article was unprecedented in a number of respects. the authors, longtime close personal friends of raul, seemed intent on distinguishing him favorably from fidel, which would have been inconceivable until now. the “modesty and simplicity” that raul demonstrates “in personal interactions” according to the authors, certainly contrasts with fidel’s grandiosity."

"raul, the article emphasized, avoids making “unilateral assessments.” instead –and notably unlike his brother—he always encourages “collective” approaches to solving problems. the implication in this, and other similar references in the article, as well as in a pointed passage in a speech raul delivered to a military audience on june 14th, is probably that he intends to govern at the head of a collective civilian-military team. he seems to be signaling other cuban officials that he does not plan to occupy all of the most important positions of power in the party and government, as fidel does. that is a sound strategy for assuring leadership support for raul’s uncontested succession..."

"...the article concludes with several passages drawn from fidel’s speeches and interviews over the years, in which he certifies his brother as his legitimate and preferred successor. “in my opinion, the colleague that was best prepared and that i knew could very well carry out the task was comrade raul.” and, fidel is also quoted as once having said: “everybody knows we hate nepotism here. (but) i honestly think that (raul) has the sufficient qualities to substitute for me in case i die in this battle".

[url]http://blogs.herald.com/cuban_connection/[/url]

Grey Soul 15,

Thanks for this article and the URL. I agree 100% with Brian Latell's conclusions. I guess along with what's happening in Mexico right now and this Cuban situation, we are entering some very interesting times.

Regards, Havanaman

Fidel to undergo intestinal surgery and has handed power over to his brother Raul according to statement read on Cuban TV tonight.
Fidel is 79, Raul is 75. From my trips to the island, i got the impression Raul was not very popular. there are unconfirmed reports on other boards of civil unrest in Havana, Santa Clara and Santiago.

A member of another forum that I belong to speculated that Fidel may already be DEAD. In which case, we're in unknown territory. There're lots of scores to be settled...

Chingon,

You are very right about Raul... he is known as a sadist, taking great pleasure from the suffering of both individuals and peoples... Unrest is sure to escalate. I wonder if I should reconsider my December trip...LOL

Regards, Havanaman

It would seem the old dog may well return to power... Still, 80 years is avery long time in South America...

Regards, Havanaman


[url]http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-13537248,00.html[/url]

[B]Happy Birthday For Leader[/B]
Updated: 07:46, Sunday August 13, 2006

Fidel Castro was sitting up, walking, talking and even working ahead of his 80th birthday today, according to the Cuban Communist Party's newspaper.
Despite the optimistic assessment, it is thought unlikely Castro will make a public appearance to celebrate the landmark becuse of his current poor health.
The Cuban leader temporarily ceded his powers to his brother Raul two weeks ago.
The official newspaper Granma carried its most optimistic report since intestinal surgery forced Castro to step aside.
Meanwhile, his close friend and political ally, Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, said he would be visiting.
"I'll take him a nice gift, a good cake, and we'll be celebrating the 80 years of this great figure of America and our history," Mr Chavez said.
He also saw Castro in October 2004, two weeks after a fall that shattered the Cuban leader's kneecap and broke his right arm.
The article in the Granma newspaper was the most detailed statement Cuba's government has issued since Castro announced on July 31 that he was temporarily ceding his powers to Raul, his deputy.
The article goes on: "A friend tells ... that he could appreciate how the Chief of the Revolution, after receiving a little physical therapy, took some steps in his room and then, seated in a chair, conversed animatedly."
No official events have been for mark the birthday milestone.
Celebrations have been postponed until December 2, the 50th anniversary of the formation of the Revolutionary Armed Forces.

[QUOTE=Wise Buddy]Maybe Raul is not very popular - but a lot more popular than Mr.Bush and his cuban mercenarios from Florida.

When US troops come to Cuba the will have their new Vietnam and Irak.

And when Fidel Castro dies another maximo leader will come and defend the revolution, and thats a lot better than coca colonialism.

Have fun.

W.B.[/QUOTE]Well it looks like an interesting new year may be coming up in Cuba. Whether it's good or bad we'll see it unfold soon enough. Raul will probably try to follow the chinese model. Open up the cuban market and give the people more power to control their economic destiny. Yet keep a lid on any attempts for reform in any governmental electoral process. Of course keep the police state and socialismo intact. The big question is how will the cuban populace react.

[QUOTE=Chingon]Fidel to undergo intestinal surgery and has handed power over to his brother Raul according to statement read on Cuban TV tonight.

According to [url]http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061129/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/cuba_castro[/url]
several thousands of intellectuals will go to Cuba to celebrate the ailling leaders birthday, yet I wonder if this will have a tightning or loosening effect on the mongering activity on the Island, there is also speculation that Castro is suffering from a cancer that has no cure and will likely not live beyond 2007.
I wonder what the members of the Cuba board think of this.

Peace out.

After Castro dies, How much do you think Cuba is going to change? There are some claiming there is going a big change and some claiming there will be very little (if any) change. Do you think Castro's death is going to make much difference?

From yahoo News and CNN.com 1/15/2007

"Castro reportedly in grave condition

MADRID, Spain - Ailing Cuban leader
Fidel Castro is in "very grave" condition after three failed operations and complications from an intestinal infection, a Spanish newspaper said Tuesday.

The newspaper El Pais cited two unnamed sources from the Gregorio Maranon hospital in the Spanish capital of Madrid. The facility employs surgeon Jose Luis Garcia Sabrido, who flew to Cuba in December to treat the 80-year-old Castro.

In a report published on its Web site, El Pais said: "A grave infection in the large intestine, at least three failed operations and various complications have left the Cuban dictator, Fidel Castro, laid up with a very grave prognosis."

Cuba has released little information on Castro's condition since he temporarily ceded power in July to his brother, Defense Minister Raul Castro, until he could recover from emergency intestinal surgery, prompting much speculation and rumor in the country and around the world.

El Pais' report, which could not immediately be confirmed, was a rare detailed description from a major media outlet about Castro's condition.

The U.S. government had speculated that Castro could suffer from cancer — a supposition denied by Sabrido. Some U.S. doctors believed Castro was suffering from diverticular disease, which can cause bleeding in the lower intestine, especially in people over 60. In severe cases, emergency surgery may be required.

That idea was supported by El Pais, which reported that its sources said Castro had suffered a bout of the disease.

"In the summer, the Cuban leader bled abundantly in the intestine," El Pais reported. "This adversity led him to the operating table, according to the medical sources. His condition, moreover, was aggravated because the infection spread and caused peritonitis, the inflammation of the membrane that covers the digestive organs."

El Pais said that in December, when Garcia Sabrido visited, Castro had an abdominal wound that was leaking more than a pint of fluids a day, causing "'a severe loss of nutrients." The Cuban leader was being fed intravenously, the report said.

A statement attributed to Castro was released on New Year's Eve saying his recovery was "far from being a lost battle."

Cuban officials told visiting U.S. lawmakers last month that Castro does not have cancer or a terminal illness and will eventually return to public life, although it was not clear whether he would return to the same kind of absolute control as before."

I guess he does not have long now. At his age the risks of surgery, indeed the recovery time and complications, all go to mean a greater vulnerability.

The question remains about post Castro Cuba. I do hope that this lovely nation does not become a pseudo-USA state. As sad as it is I feel that that is exactly what will happen. Just think about it: a satellite sex prison, a satellite illegal prison and base of US victimisation and torture just a short flight from the main land..... Can you imagine all those lovely chicas becoming "American Women"....

Shit, I bet someone will create a tourist route to take in all the sights!

Regards, Havanaman

[QUOTE=Havanaman]Shit, I bet someone will create a tourist route to take in all the sights!

Regards,

Havanaman[/QUOTE]Shhh think positively dude.

So do we want communism to die in Cuba?

Because if it does this horror may come try.

Castro has done good to fend of the feminazis from coming over and throw a shit party.

I just wish I knew which direction things are going in.

It is still very possible though that nothing will even happen for the first 5-10 yrs.

Don't forget cuba now have allies in south america that will be willing to stand up and back the revolution. I don't think the US and just barge in like that.

Master Yoda,

You are right about the allies in south america: it makes for very interesting viewing... I agree that the USA can nolonger just barge in...

Regards, Havanaman

Castro's brother as president?

Means nothing right now.

The big difference will come when he passes and some young semi-communist takes over (like foreign minister Perez Roque). This will be the end of Cuba as we know it. We're talking McDonalds, KFC, Starbucks and 10 million American cruiseship tourists in sneakers and ballcaps in the streets of Havana.

I have nothing against Americans, but I fear Cuba will turn into just another Puerto Rico or Bahamas when they are one day allowed to travel to Cuba.

I hope Raul makes it to a 100.

[QUOTE=Jon32]Castro's brother as president?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Jon32]Castro's brother as president?[/QUOTE]We'll see what happens. Nothing democractic but I think Raul will open up the economy and let cubans participate more in private enterprise. It's no secret that he admires the chinese model of socialism.

I agree that Cuba will change, but not quickly. The major issue the US had with Castro was the seizure and nationalization of all private property. Unless this ends, no one will want to risk investing in such an unstable place.

I think things will be much worse in the short term, because as soon as Cubans are allowed to travel, they will leave for the US in droves. Cuba will be a mess similar to the state of Russia for the first 5 years after the the end of the Soviet Union. It may take a decade or so for major commercialization to occur.

[QUOTE=Travelling Gring]Means nothing right now.

The big difference will come when he passes and some young semi-communist takes over (like foreign minister Perez Roque). This will be the end of Cuba as we know it. We're talking McDonalds, KFC, Starbucks and 10 million American cruiseship tourists in sneakers and ballcaps in the streets of Havana.

I have nothing against Americans, but I fear Cuba will turn into just another Puerto Rico or Bahamas when they are one day allowed to travel to Cuba.

I hope Raul makes it to a 100.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Maxx]I agree that Cuba will change, but not quickly. The major issue the US had with Castro was the seizure and nationalization of all private property. Unless this ends, no one will want to risk investing in such an unstable place.

I think things will be much worse in the short term, because as soon as Cubans are allowed to travel, they will leave for the US in droves. Cuba will be a mess similar to the state of Russia for the first 5 years after the the end of the Soviet Union. It may take a decade or so for major commercialization to occur.[/QUOTE]

Cuba will never go the course of the former USSR. They are a proud people, well educated, and keenly aware of what existed pre-1959, and their accomplishments thereafter.

God yes, please keep the ignorant American masses out of Cuba. If that happens I fear I can never return to the pearl of the carribean.

[QUOTE=Darenesq0767]Cuba will never go the course of the former USSR. They are a proud people, well educated, and keenly aware of what existed pre-1959, and their accomplishments thereafter.

God yes, please keep the ignorant American masses out of Cuba. If that happens I fear I can never return to the pearl of the carribean.[/QUOTE]

What I meant was that politically, Cuba will not have a smooth transition into a democracy. The comparison to Russia is valid. When it broke apart in the early 90's, it was very unstable and as soon as they were able, many Russians fled to other countries. Only recently, over a decade later, Russia has emerged as a strong, unified, stable nation, and many Russians are actually returning.

There are two scenarios that can play out here. The first one is that Barak Obama will get elected and remove or just no longer enforce the embargo, while Cuba actually stays the same under Raul. Cubans will still face the same government restrictions so their lives wont really change. Many curious Americans will probably visit, but Cuba will only change slightly because foreigners will still fear risking investment in Cuba. In the short term, the price of Chicas will probably double or triple due to high demand.

The other scenario is that Raul opens up the country with a slow transition to democracy. This would probably be very messy. As soon as the borders are open, tens of thousands of Cubans will flee the country. This will cause tremendous problems because the people leaving will likely be the well educated class such as doctors, lawyers, etc. I dont care how proud you think Cubans are, a doctor making $5000 a year is not going to stay in Cuba. Over the next 10-20 years, Cuba will recover and most likely emerge to its former greatness. Americans will stay away if Cuba is seen as unstable, so this will likely create mongering heaven similar to the situation in the early 90s when the USSR collapsed and Americans were first allowed into Cuba since the revolution. From doing my research on this board, it seems that this period in Cuba will go down in mongering history. Too bad I was only 14 at the time!

The good news is that Disneyworld Havana type commercialization is probably at least 20 years away.

[QUOTE=Maxx]a doctor making $5000 a year is not going to stay in Cuba[/QUOTE]

Then how about a doctor making $400 a year? Which is what a Cuban doctor is actually making. Did you put a zero too much in there or do you think they make 5 kilos? If they did, they would'nt all be trying to switch to jobs behind bars and in taxies.

Interesting points by the way. I agree with some of it. Cuba will never be what it once was and it is only heading in one direction: For the worse. For non-Cubans at least.

I should also add, and most of you probably already know, that the police have been instructed not to approach a girl when she is with a foreigner. They may try to separate you by hissing/whistling at her to come over to them but you should just ignore them and move on as they won't try and stop you.

If you are in a situation where you think the police are watching you, never leave her side, even for a moment (to pay for cigarettes, etc.) or they will grab her when your back is turned and that could be the last you see of her.

[QUOTE=Travelling Gring]Then how about a doctor making $400 a year? Which is what a Cuban doctor is actually making. Did you put a zero too much in there or do you think they make 5 kilos? If they did, they would'nt all be trying to switch to jobs behind bars and in taxies.[/QUOTE]Well unless Cuba finds a LOT of Oil it will not recover as fast as Russia. Today's russia is a petro-state that was able to recapture it's infrastructure and nationalize it's energy and mineing resources. The dominant initial trend will be for the educated poor to leave while the educated rich (in america) take a cautious slow attitude toward re-patriation of their assets always fearing the uneducated poor who would suffer during harsh democrotization / capitalization.

What?

Never seen any cop having any kind of problem approaching a chica while she is talking to me....

[QUOTE=El Chico]I should also add, and most of you probably already know, that the police have been instructed not to approach a girl when she is with a foreigner. They may try to separate you by hissing/whistling at her to come over to them but you should just ignore them and move on as they won't try and stop you.

If you are in a situation where you think the police are watching you, never leave her side, even for a moment (to pay for cigarettes, etc.) or they will grab her when your back is turned and that could be the last you see of her.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=El Chico]I should also add, and most of you probably already know, that the police have been instructed not to approach a girl when she is with a foreigner. They may try to separate you by hissing/whistling at her to come over to them but you should just ignore them and move on as they won't try and stop you.

If you are in a situation where you think the police are watching you, never leave her side, even for a moment (to pay for cigarettes, etc.) or they will grab her when your back is turned and that could be the last you see of her.[/QUOTE]

I disagree. The cops have no problem approaching you.

On two occasions, I have had a cop approach me and my female companion while we were on the street in Havana. He asked for ID.

I actually think I broke a record this June in Havana. Was hanging on Malecón by 23rd one Saturday night. Wasn't really looking for a girl but they kept coming up to me. I stopped counting the 9th time a cop came over to check chicas ID. I wasn't looking for a girl that night, so allthough I smiled and found it ridiculous I kept hanging around to see if they would get tired at some point. They didn't.

So, unless I am looking particularly like a jinetera-magnet, I would have to say that you are way off here: Cops have no problems at all stopping chicas while they are with foreigners. And they have no problem taking the girls out of your hands either...

[QUOTE=Travelling Gring]I actually think I broke a record this June in Havana. Was hanging on Malecón by 23rd one Saturday night. Wasn't really looking for a girl but they kept coming up to me. I stopped counting the 9th time a cop came over to check chicas ID. I wasn't looking for a girl that night, so allthough I smiled and found it ridiculous I kept hanging around to see if they would get tired at some point. They didn't.

So, unless I am looking particularly like a jinetera-magnet, I would have to say that you are way off here: Cops have no problems at all stopping chicas while they are with foreigners. And they have no problem taking the girls out of your hands either...[/QUOTE]

I was driving in Miramar with the daughter of the Casa owner where I was staying. She needed a ride I decided to give her the ride. Well long story short the cops stop me and I they ask her to come out of the car. They gave her the 3rd degree. She really got angry because she was a high officials daughter and this palestino cop gave her all kind of bull.

The next day she went to the local police station and reported him to the authorities with her dad. Who was extremely pissed because they were trating his daughter as a jinetera.

Cops down there they will do whatever they want.

Yes, they will, and your post takes us to the next subject. It used to be that your car was a free zone. For some reason, when a girl was with a foreigner in a car, the 'rule' used to be that the cops would not stop the car because (for some odd reason) the car acted as proof of relationship.

Not anymore, man.

[QUOTE=Travelling Gring]I actually think I broke a record this June in Havana. Was hanging on Malecón by 23rd one Saturday night. Wasn't really looking for a girl but they kept coming up to me. I stopped counting the 9th time a cop came over to check chicas ID. [/QUOTE]The Malecon enforcement is way up. I found the malecon to be a waste of time. It was dead for me. Very few chicas.

Other than the puntos de control (Road Blocks) - I was never stopped by the policia. In fact, the only place I have ever been "Carded" (Stopped for ID) was in Havana. And I was with chica.

I am curious about the checks in other areas and other cities.

Other than the Malecon, is enforcement increasing since the beginning of the year?

I've been renting cars for years there so I don't have much experience on the streets. I do know a lot of girls will never walk with tourists on the streets for fear of being labled a jinatera by the police. After that, they are in the mercy of the police. They off course have stopped me on several occations, for having too many passenjers in the car. It's some kind of infraction. Depending on what type of chicas are in the car. Meaning, if I give two shits about them or not. I'll get out of the car and speak my way out of the infraction, . Lately, bribery has worked! They are catching on to the ways the rest of the world works. Off course if you have a couple of them in the car, you can always say that you are giving them a ride. Very rarely have they done anything to me. Tourists are generally left alone, unless the police believe you to be a cuban american.

what did cuba ever do to us?

by saul landau and nelson p. valdes.

'. they cannot forgive us that we are just so close to them, that we have made a socialist revolution under the very nose of the united states! '

– fidel castro, april 16, 1961.

'and forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive them that trespass against us. '

– english book of common prayer. 1662.

after 53 years, we ask. did the cuban revolution accomplish its goals? likewise, what happened to the us, which has relentlessly tried to block cuba's revolutionary path?

after the january 1959 revolutionary victory washington's elite understood that in fidel castro they might face serious rebelliousness to the accepted and enforced notion: washington rules this hemisphere.

in 1954, washington punished president jacobo arbenz for nationalizing united fruit company property in guatemala (a us-backed coup the'etat) , to again dramatize how the us treated disobedience.

despite the long history of us punishment of insubordinate latin american leaders, castro and compañeros remained focused on goals emerging in the 1860s' revolt against spain: independence; sovereignty; social justice.

when faced with washington's intransigent opposition cuba's leaders accepted the consequences of a kind of insurance policy written for their revolution in moscow. they had no other protectors.

they knew that latin american leaders who failed to toe the us line faced: assassination or military coups.

unlike us influence, the soviets would not own cuban property. the us held the best land in cuba, the biggest sugar mills, mines, telephone and utility companies, banks, politicians, casinos and much more. the soviets never possessed an acre of cuban land. they did, however, expect reciprocal ideological compliance.

from 1959 through the mid 1970s, cubans became more literate and healthier. their social services expanded along with a basically honest government. cuba became an integrated nation state with a sense of purpose. but us policy directors understood: an external threat would compel revolutionaries to organize their defense.

they grasped alexander hamilton's federalist #8: 'safety from external danger is the most powerful director of national conduct. even the ardent love of liberty will, after a time, give way to its dictates. '

in cuba, batista had not permitted free speech or politics; so no dramatic change took place. unlike batista, the revolutionaries had more than personal power to defend. and they understood the possible consequences.

us military forces killed up to 4 million vietnamese (mostly civilians) and lost 58 thousand us troops as cuba's revolution developed. few people today – or then – could explain the purpose of that war.

while engaged in vietnam, cambodia and laos, the cia also backed a string of military coups against democratically elected governments of brazil (1964) , chile (1973) and interfering in political processes of other client states: invading the dominican republic and plotting in argentina and uruguay.

cuban doctors and teachers went abroad to aid others, cuban artists — painting and sculpture, poetry and literature, film, music and dance – made world-wide names for themselves. the cia in africa assassinated congolese liberation leader patrice lumumba and backed merciless dictators. cuban troops helped maintain angolan independence despite serious threats from south african and cia-backed troops invading from the south and east.

in 1994, at his inauguration as south africa's president nelson mandela acknowledged to fidel castro: 'you made this possible. ' he referred to the role of cuban troops in 1987-88 in helping the angolan army administer heavy losses to the south african forces who had invaded southern angola, forcing the apartheid regime to change its strategy from military to political.

during the 1980s, washington backed murderous regimes throughout the world, like those in el salvador, honduras and guatemala; same old policy, but justified by cold war rhetoric.

after the soviets disappeared in 1991, the jubilation in miami exile circles and washington office parties ran at fever pitch: would the cuban revolution collapse in a year – or less?

now. 21 plus years later and still alive, cuba's revolution begins to change its economic and administrative orders. the us media routinely describes cuba as poor, needy, miserable. but in 2012 on cuba's non-violent streets there aren't vast numbers of homeless like those in us cities; and no hungry children (1 of 2 american kids experienced hunger last year).

in 'free and democratic' mexico and central america thousands of gang-drug related murders occur annually. cuba has no drug cartels or children frightened of a drive-by bullet. as us wars killed tens of thousands of iraqi and afghans and thousands of its own troops, cuban doctors repaired the sightless vision of thousands of third world people around the world.

the us holds more political prisoners in cuba — in gitmo — than cuba does, and now has laws allowing the president to assas. oops, execute us citizens he deems 'terrorist' (without court procedures). us citizens can get jailed indefinitely with no recourse to constitutional protections. but washington blithely accuses cuba of human rights violations.

cuba does face a broken economy, a bloated bureaucracy and other serious problems – like no free press. its leaders have begun a reform process, and a broad dialogue has emerged amongst the population.

in washington denial prevails. presidential aspirants on both sides ignore the trillions wasted on destructive wars, rotting infrastructure, spread of poverty, and drop in the standard of living.

cuba policy remains inflexible. hard liners demand ever more time for the policy to work! it's only been 53 years since washington's elite decided to force regime change in havana.

no one asks: what did cuba do to us again?

saul landau, an institute for policy studies fellow, produced will the real terrorist please stand up (cinema libre studio). counterpunch published his bush and botox world.

nelson p. valdés is professor emeritus, u. of new mexico and director of the cuba-l project.

[QUOTE=Kalifornication; 1237094]What Did Cuba Ever Do to Us?

No one asks: What did Cuba do to us again?[/QUOTE]The American Empire has been destroying nations either by brutal sanctions / embargoes or attacking them covertly, as they did in Libya by arming terrorists cough cough "freedom fighters" or overtly as they are doing in Afghanistan and Iraq. We need another superpower to tell these cunts to take a f*ckin hike! There is no democracy in US. Its all a puppet show. All presidents follow their masters behind the curtain. The last one who disobeyed them was J F K. God bless him.

sam i am just counting down the seconds that you and i are deemed un-american (smile / cringe). but rest assured my brother, one of the most american acts one can engage in is that which is protected.for now- by the first amendment to the united states constitution, that fundamental right being the freedom of speech. here are some nice quotes:

it just seems to be a human trait to want to protect the speech of people with whom we agree. for the first amendment, that is not good enough. so it is really important that we protect first amendment rights of people no matter what side of the line they are on.

floyd abrams.

the debate about the war seems pretty robust and free. many publications, from the new yorker to the nation, feel perfectly comfortable printing anti-american articles and that's fine. that's what the first amendment is all about.

rich lowry.

i begin to feel like most americans don't understand the first amendment, don't understand the idea of freedom of speech, and don't understand that it's the responsibility of the citizen to speak out.

roger ebert.

the defense department's plan to ban newspaper reporters from pool coverage of military operations is incredible. it reveals the administration to be out of touch with journalism, reality and the first amendment.

arthur ochs sulzberger.

i can only assume that your editorial writer tripped over the first amendment and thought it was the office cat.

e. b. white.

i'm a crusader. i really believe in the first amendment, and i use it fully, and i pay a price for that.

al goldstein.

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[quote=sammytheman;1237376]the american empire has been destroying nations either by brutal sanctions / embargoes or attacking them covertly, as they did in libya by arming terrorists cough cough "freedom fighters" or overtly as they are doing in afghanistan and iraq. we need another superpower to tell these cunts to take a f*ckin hike! there is no democracy in us. its all a puppet show. all presidents follow their masters behind the curtain. the last one who disobeyed them was j f k. god bless him.[/quote]

Cubans no longer need Exit visa. I. E: letter of invitation!

That would be great if you want to take one back to your country to marry. But seriously, which countries especially in this global economic recession would eagerly give work visas to Cubans! Can anyone think of any country handing out visas to Cubans?

[url]http://youtu.be/e3kDZpzyUOU[/url]

BS.

[QUOTE=BrasilSoccer0; 1373160]Cubans no longer need Exit visa. I. E: letter of invitation!

That would be great if you want to take one back to your country to marry. But seriously, which countries especially in this global economic recession would eagerly give work visas to Cubans! Can anyone think of any country handing out visas to Cubans?

[url]http://youtu.be/e3kDZpzyUOU[/url]

BS.[/QUOTE]Venezuela and Ecuador for sure, for mongers like us this is bad news, they can work abroad and gain some money and go back to the family in Cuba, if you go the followings months to Cuba, the money you spend is surely used to buy a pasaje to travel, all the guys with their novias over there, it can be the last time to fuck her.

Many of them have always been working abroad (doctors) , others, quite a few, have been on other forms of "missions" and this has not changed much. The new law will not change much either. Why, any other nation is looking for skilled non-competitive workers (assuming we are talking about the working abroad issue you speak of). Hence, nothing changes, its still the doctors and other techs. The average Cuban, do they really make enough to purchase a plane ticket let alone a hotel? Sure some do because of their family in Miami, but they are not the girls we are working towards, and generally, they are not our Novia's (except mine). LOL.

[QUOTE=Golds;1373361]Venezuela and Ecuador for sure, for mongers like us this is bad news, they can work abroad and gain some money and go back to the family in Cuba, if you go the followings months to Cuba, the money you spend is surely used to buy a pasaje to travel, all the guys with their novias over there, it can be the last time to fuck her.[/QUOTE]

[URL]http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2014/12/17/cigars-rum-and-credit-cards-what-is-in-us-cuba-agreement/?mod=e2fb[/URL]

So its finally coming. The thaw in relationships has started.

Is this the end of cheap sex in Cuba? That would suck, it's still on my to-do list.

[QUOTE=Hornyscot;1657720][URL]http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2014/12/17/cigars-rum-and-credit-cards-what-is-in-us-cuba-agreement/?mod=e2fb[/URL]

So its finally coming. The thaw in relationships has started.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=ManderinWonger;1657796]Is this the end of cheap sex in Cuba? That would suck, it's still on my to-do list.[/QUOTE]If you read the article and or watch the news on this topic. It says nothing about general tourists allowed to go. You must have another reason for being there.

[QUOTE=TomSf;1658040]If you read the article and or watch the news on this topic. It says nothing about general tourists allowed to go. You must have another reason for being there.[/QUOTE]Change is in the air. And that change will be big. It will bring the good, the bad and the ugly. For the USA Cuba is a fresh market just 90 miles off is SE shore. Cuba is "virgin", its infrastructure, is in need of work and there are no McDonald's (save Guantanamo). For the Cubans, its product at better value. Money will be flowing back and forth, some of which will work its way down to the "average" Cuban, but what will likely result is further class distinction within Cuba. Unless, however, the Cubans, can hold on to their socialist ideals. I for one, hope they do. But my god the pressure that will be brought upon them by the day trippers from Miami. That's going to put a test to their cubanism. For those of you that cling to the fact that, "well its not yet wide open", dream on. Its as good as wide open. Why in hell do you think the Cubans built the largest port in Havana over the past couple of years? Because the plan was set in place long before yesterdays speeches. All and all, I am happy for both the Cuban and America people, what a stupid little argument between neighbors.

[QUOTE=TomSf;1658040]If you read the article and or watch the news on this topic. It says nothing about general tourists allowed to go. You must have another reason for being there.[/QUOTE]Yes, I read the article and watch the news, and Kalifornication nailed it: it's as good as wide open.

From the New York Times today:

"Treasury and Commerce Department officials are moving quickly to tear down regulatory barriers to Americans' ability to travel, conduct financial dealings and export products to Cuba, officials said. The Office of Foreign Assets Control at the Treasury Department will scrap a measure that requires people who are already eligible for travel to Cuba to receive special permission from the government for trips such as those involving family visits, professional, religious or cultural programs and humanitarian projects. New rules will also make it easier to get there, by allowing the direct purchase of airline tickets to Cuba rather than requiring travelers to go through a travel agent and charter a flight. The Treasury Department is also quadrupling the amount of money that can be sent to Cubans each quarter, to $2,000 from $500, and is loosening banking restrictions. "

This means that pretty soon, there will be loads of Americans and their dollars flooding Cuba. My guess is the cost of mongering will go up quickly.

[QUOTE=ManderinWonger;1658286]Yes, I read the article and watch the news, and Kalifornication nailed it: it's as good as wide open.

From the New York Times today:

"Treasury and Commerce Department officials are moving quickly to tear down regulatory barriers to Americans' ability to travel, conduct financial dealings and export products to Cuba, officials said. The Office of Foreign Assets Control at the Treasury Department will scrap a measure that requires people who are already eligible for travel to Cuba to receive special permission from the government for trips such as those involving family visits, professional, religious or cultural programs and humanitarian projects. New rules will also make it easier to get there, by allowing the direct purchase of airline tickets to Cuba rather than requiring travelers to go through a travel agent and charter a flight. The Treasury Department is also quadrupling the amount of money that can be sent to Cubans each quarter, to $2,000 from $500, and is loosening banking restrictions. "

This means that pretty soon, there will be loads of Americans and their dollars flooding Cuba. My guess is the cost of mongering will go up quickly.[/QUOTE]Good assessment. I called Cayman airways and it has already gone up on the ticket prices. I turn on the television this morning and I see American news teams reporting from the malecon. All charters for the families are sold out. Damn! My baby has lost her virginity. I'm glad I've been going for the last few years because those memories will always be my best of Cuba. Let's see if the casa particulars start to increase their prices next along with the girls.

If the US lifts the embargo why wouldn't prices go down on the chicas. Because if the girls are allowed to be seen with tourists it will level off sought of like of the DR prices. Nobody is going to pay 100 us to these girls. In the DR the europeans are tightwads and the americans know the price. Last time I was in DR I was paying like 35 to 45 dolllars. Nobody would pay more.

[QUOTE=Scruffman;1662172]If the US lifts the embargo why wouldn't prices go down on the chicas. Because if the girls are allowed to be seen with tourists it will level off sought of like of the DR prices. Nobody is going to pay 100 us to these girls. In the DR the europeans are tightwads and the americans know the price. Last time I was in DR I was paying like 35 to 45 dolllars. Nobody would pay more.[/QUOTE]You obviously haven't been to Cuba or seen the women. The DR girls can't touch the Cubanas in or out of bed. I did a report in the Sosua section yesterday, check it out. It's like you said " the euro guys are tighwads" and that's all that's in Cuba. Once the Americans come with their free spending ways, prices will go up. Please don't have people think 35-40 is the norm in Sosua because that takes good negotiating. Most girls in Sosua are starting prices at 3000 p and if you really want her most guys pay that.

The Cubanas are smarter than the DR girls. They aren't as lazy as the DR girls. They are just as pretty as the DR girls. They also fuck better than the DR girls. You don't think eventually this will cost a premium?

If the flood gates open too fast you can see a bidding war as these Cubanas could become the hottest out now.

When I started in the DR in 2007 the girls had no price. They wanted a boyfriend and future western union relationship and most succeeded. They would stay with you your whole trip and you would have to pay them to leave. They were proud to have a gringo boyfriend. Now it's 1500-3000 pesos for a couple hours, so the price in the DR has gone up with the arrival of the Americans.

[URL]http://thedisorderofthings.com/2015/08/03/from-cuba-with-love-sex-and-money-in-the-21st-century/[/URL]

[URL]https://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/sanctions/Programs/Documents/cuba_faqs_20170616.pdf[/URL]