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Seeking Arrangements
Let's use this thread to discuss and share SA experiences, tips, advice, etc.
I was on SA for 18 months in the states and had 25 gals. About half were just gals that wanted to enjoy fancy dinners, being spoiled, going on trips, etc. No monetary transaction was ever involved. But other half involved were explicit monetary arrangements. But its a LOT of work.
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New SA Thread
Midwestern. Thanks for starting this. As I said in that other thread I also have some great experience to share but didn't know how to start a thread on it. So thanks.
I ama relative Newbie at it having just pulled my first girl in June. But I've pulled 15 girls since June and had some awesome experiences, many of which I can and will share here. IMO in the US it's the only way to fly tho I have had a good experience in London and Buenos Aires also.
The key point is it does in fact take a ton of time, which I don't mind. I typically start my search for the perfect girl about a month ahead of visiting a given city and am on SA every night. If you like chatting with girls and finding the gems in the pile of BS like I do (there is something viscerally satisfying about it) then it's not work but part of the fun. I've also ended up with two gal-pals who I pen pal quite intimately with tho we've never met. It's nice to just chat about stuff including their SA and their boyfriends and whatever else. This is just a nice side benefit.
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The good and the bad
The bad:
Many of the gals are losers (potheads, HS dropouts, min wage workers, etc) or have other issues (I met 2 that were bipolar, but many were just really weird).
The undergrads or 20 somethings mostly treat you like a real sugar daddy, and so after a paid date they cannot wait to ditch me and go clubbing with their friends.
If you date a gal long enough, they will eventually know your real identity, either because you'll slip, or run into someone when on a date, or the waiter says, "thanks Mr. David Smith" when getting your credit card back, or the Uber drivers will ask or say your name, etc. It's not easy being incognito for so long.
And in large metropolitan areas, the gals are overwhelmed with queries so it takes a lot of effort to get their attention. Sometimes it takes weeks of back and forth and then maybe you get a date.
Some might want a real relationship eventually and then there will be huge drama.
The good:
At one time, I was dating a 24,26, and 29 year old. All super hot. They all had jobs, but they just wanted to be wined and dined and wanted to travel. I also dated a former mistress of a famous person, someone we all know. Wow, she was hot and sexy. But overall, it can be a great way to find a no strings attached GF.
My MO:
My MO was to meet the gals for a drink and see where it went from there.
I never showed my face on the site.
If they wanted to see my face, I'the suggest meeting for 5-minutes at a safe place of their choosing so they can see what I look like.
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2411525]The bad:
Many of the gals are losers (potheads, HS dropouts, min wage workers, etc) or have other issues (I met 2 that were bipolar, but many were just really weird).
[/QUOTE]I have been off and on SA since 2009. It is like that in the USA Now for sure. However, there are other places that are much better. I really liked what I found in Bogota, and I have done Mexico City. The women there were not as pretty and wanted more, but it was miles better than the USA I didn't have much like with SA in Monterrey, Mexico. The places that interest me that I have not done are Sao Paulo, Medellin, Cartagena, and Lima in that order. Having a SB abroad is tough but with the sex gulag crackdown, that even snared billionaire Robert Kraft, I am done playing in the USA.
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I have never used the site as a customer, I used to work there.
The staff (technical, admin, marketing, management) are all very dedicated to what they do. There are no fake profiles on the site, they have a fairly large team that weeds them out. Every new member request is checked manually by a person, there are no auto-robots running the site. Hence you can expect to pay a premium for what they do. They are very cautious about people who seem to be not who they say they are. Escorts are weeded out ruthlessly as well -- posting a profile picture on SA that can also be found on an escort website is an insta-ban. They do use some technical measures to help identify fakes including storing cookies, tracking IP address usage, etc. Nothing that would break privacy laws but they are very detailed in their approval and deactivation processes.
Security is very high on the priority list. Their servers aren't on any public clouds like AWS or similar where there can be other systems on the site, they self-host everything locked away in special cages in data centres. I have a high level of trust in their IT team, just from a policy point of view they do the right things.
It's a pleasant enough place to work but relatively high pressure. Management are forthright and state their objectives clearly, they offer good support to staff that perform well and staff that don't perform well or aren't up to scratch are shown the door fairly quickly. Generally they seek high calibre people and treat them well if they perform well.
That's probably about all I can say without breaking non disclosure agreements so I'll stop there.
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I find it amazing that you guys are able to use SA successfully abroad. Don't you guys ever have a meet-and-greet and chemistry was not there? It's a waste of an evening, which are valuable when abroad. At home, I don't care about wasting the an evening every once in a while.
[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2411536]I have been off and on SA since 2009. It is like that in the USA Now for sure. However, there are other places that are much better. I really liked what I found in Bogota, and I have done Mexico City. The women there were not as pretty and wanted more, but it was miles better than the USA I didn't have much like with SA in Monterrey, Mexico. The places that interest me that I have not done are Sao Paulo, Medellin, Cartagena, and Lima in that order. Having a SB abroad is tough but with the sex gulag crackdown, that even snared billionaire Robert Kraft, I am done playing in the USA.[/QUOTE].
[QUOTE=Steve9696;2411270]Midwestern. Thanks for starting this. As I said in that other thread I also have some great experience to share but didn't know how to start a thread on it. So thanks.
I ama relative Newbie at it having just pulled my first girl in June. But I've pulled 15 girls since June and had some awesome experiences, many of which I can and will share here. IMO in the US it's the only way to fly tho I have had a good experience in London and Buenos Aires also.
The key point is it does in fact take a ton of time, which I don't mind. I typically start my search for the perfect girl about a month ahead of visiting a given city and am on SA every night. If you like chatting with girls and finding the gems in the pile of BS like I do (there is something viscerally satisfying about it) then it's not work but part of the fun. I've also ended up with two gal-pals who I pen pal quite intimately with tho we've never met. It's nice to just chat about stuff including their SA and their boyfriends and whatever else. This is just a nice side benefit.[/QUOTE]
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2411525]The bad:
Many of the gals are losers (potheads, HS dropouts, min wage workers, etc) or have other issues (I met 2 that were bipolar, but many were just really weird).
The undergrads or 20 somethings mostly treat you like a real sugar daddy, and so after a paid date they cannot wait to ditch me and go clubbing with their friends.[/QUOTE]Is it weird that many women are looking for submissive male. I got quite a few that favorite me with description like dominant, submissive sub, Goddes, powerful or femdom. Also many are looking for Platonic relationship, do you ignore these?
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[QUOTE=WindAngel;2411750]Is it weird that many women are looking for submissive male. I got quite a few that favorite me with description like dominant, submissive sub, Goddes, powerful or femdom. Also many are looking for Platonic relationship, do you ignore these?[/QUOTE]Some women are into BDSM, or they think many guys are into it. Many of these gals have told me that guys often inquire or request it. I guess it's more common when it's p4 p.
I met some gals looking for platonic relationships. Because I was hoping for more. But it never became more. Some gals just want to have a male drinking buddy, or a mentor. The outrageous thing is that they still expected dinners and sometimes some cash. If I were active on SA again, I would ignore those seeking platonic relationships.
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THis is very helpful info and gives me more trust in SA. From my 18 months experience on it, I maybe saw one or two seemingly fake profiles out of thousands, and maybe a few escorts out of thousands, so I can confirm that my experience matches what you describe. I eventually quit the site because I was in a large metropolitan area and so using SA was a lot of time and work. I tried it out in smaller metropolitan areas, and success rate was much higher, but fewer options of course.
[QUOTE=ColinBakerKing;2411561]I have never used the site as a customer, I used to work there.
The staff (technical, admin, marketing, management) are all very dedicated to what they do. There are no fake profiles on the site, they have a fairly large team that weeds them out. Every new member request is checked manually by a person, there are no auto-robots running the site. Hence you can expect to pay a premium for what they do. They are very cautious about people who seem to be not who they say they are. Escorts are weeded out ruthlessly as well -- posting a profile picture on SA that can also be found on an escort website is an insta-ban. They do use some technical measures to help identify fakes including storing cookies, tracking IP address usage, etc. Nothing that would break privacy laws but they are very detailed in their approval and deactivation processes.
Security is very high on the priority list. Their servers aren't on any public clouds like AWS or similar where there can be other systems on the site, they self-host everything locked away in special cages in data centres. I have a high level of trust in their IT team, just from a policy point of view they do the right things.
It's a pleasant enough place to work but relatively high pressure. Management are forthright and state their objectives clearly, they offer good support to staff that perform well and staff that don't perform well or aren't up to scratch are shown the door fairly quickly. Generally they seek high calibre people and treat them well if they perform well.
That's probably about all I can say without breaking non disclosure agreements so I'll stop there.[/QUOTE].
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2 additional suggestions
I also looked at how long the gals have been on the site. If she's been on there for more than a year, then she's probably jaded and maybe she has just become another escort. The new members are the best, because they are excited and you can mold their expectations. One day, I saw a new gal on the site. 24 years old, tall, hot blonde. She even had a masters degree. I contacted her immediately and she agreed to a date and we exchanged contact info. Later that day, she deleted her profile. I asked her why, and she said she was overwhelmed with guys contacting her. Anyway, we had a great relationship for a while. She never asked for money. She just wanted to have fun. She moved back home after grad school and didn't have anyone to go out with, and she was broke because she just started her first job.
If you're worried about using SA in your city, then maybe use it in a nearby city. For example, if you live in Oakland, then meet SA gals in SF. I also did this with success. But of course it takes more time out of your day driving 1 or 2, or more, hours.
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2411623]I find it amazing that you guys are able to use SA successfully abroad. Don't you guys ever have a meet-and-greet and chemistry was not there? It's a waste of an evening, which are valuable when abroad. At home, I don't care about wasting the an evening every once in a while.
.[/QUOTE]In Bogota, there are so many back up plans it is ridiculous. You can just cruise to Santa Fe and get laid for $20 or to a nightclub or spa if it does not work out for a little more, but I was scheduling 1 to 2 meet and greets per day. For the most part, the only time I didn't have sex with the first M&G was by my choice. In one week, I think I had 9 meets, and I rejected two and had some repeats. I was exhausted after my first trip. I know people are pressed for time, but if you have the time, it is a must place visit. I have been seeing flights to Colombia in the $300 range.
In Mexico City, your backup is a twitter escort which takes a little more time and patience than what is available in Colombia, and it is a little more in the $60 to $120 range. There was a lot more GPS among the SBs for sure. I wish I had found a SB that could fuck and suck like the escort Raven Lawson. She is such a high energy nympho. I found one there that I would call a SB that I like, and she was good, but for whatever reason, I thought the Mexico City escorts all provided such a great and intimate experience that I didn't see that much benefit of having a SB there like I did in other places.
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SA Thoughts
Wow this thread suddenly blew up. I'll try to comment on several threads at once.
First of all as I said it takes a lot of time to do it the way I do. But if you just want an escort they are easy to find. They most often will only message you once or twice and then want to go to phone text. And then pretty quickly ask what allowance you offer. So U can use SA for straight up escorts and that's pretty easy.
And I don't use it like Midwestern. In my mind SB is providing sex and more and SD is providing dollars. So I don't have any unpaid SBs. (Minor exception below). It's definitely a paid gig for my girl.
So I try to find pretty new girls and believe me they don't want to be treated like escorts and I their mind they are not. The first 10-20 messages are just friendly chit chat. If they like your sense of humor you are halfway there. At some point you will have to take it over to text. I would not discuss money on SA. The way I normally describe things to a new girl is that I don't want an escort but I also want a complete experience and a complete experience means dinner and drinks and only if chemistry is there then room time also. They we discuss what inwill pay for a complete date. And I make it clear that if the chemistry is not there we will bail after dinner. I even say I will give them $50 for their Uber if they bail. So far I am 15 of 16 with girls going to the room and having a fully satisfactory conclusion. And the one that bailed we were truly into each other and made out and all but she freaked about me being married. So it was not even a total fail and she's in my Rolodex (haha old man word!)
As to overseas I've had two great experiences. I met a girl in Buenos Aires and we spent 21 hours together over 3 days. I gave her $1000. Not all rosy tho because I flew her to London and she broke up with me and fucked other guys on my dime. So that was a bummer! But I ended up finding a Columbian girl in London and negotiated 350£ for 4-5 hours together. And she ends up bringing her hot friend. Dinner dancing and duo sex. Completely epic. And I had told her I would give her 100 if she bails (she balked at the 50 during texting) but she didn't bail! Now to be fair it's up to you to bring the game and close the deal! Just make sure they are having a blast and ur good to go.
Finally I generally agree to avoid Platonic girls and the number of girls looking for money for no sex is staggering and ridiculous. But I contacted one who is a hottie to see if she'the bend the rules and we hit it off soooo good. Turns out she's gay but does Cam girl etc. She's made $450 this week doing cams and photos and walking (non sexually) on a guy and dominating him. So platonic may mean no traditional sex but lots of other stuff possible. I am actually meeting her tomorrow and very excited. (Unpaid buddy date).
To me the best part of SA is the girls decide what they want to do and how far they want to go. There is nothing like a couple hours of dinner, a couple hours of sex and then you realize she is sleeping over because she wants to! Happened twice last month (different girls) and it was awesome both times.
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Good insights, Steve9696.
Did you ever have a long term (monthly) financial arrangement? If so, I would be curious what the arrangement was. I only had one, 5 k per month, and it was because she wanted to see me every day and even gave me a key to her apartment (plus, she had a body of a Hustler centerfold). Other girls were strict about number of dates, so it wasn't worth it.
I agree with everything you say, but one small exception. I would never do a dinner date as a first date. If there's no chemistry, then it's a waste of a couple of hours. Plus, I'm never horny on a full stomach, LOL. So, I always suggest meeting for drinks. We can split after the first drink if there's no chemistry.
And I especially agree with you that one great aspect of SA is that most of these gals might genuinely like you, since they are not emotionless professional escorts. During initial chit chat, the question of what each other is looking for always arises, and I usually want to hear what they're looking for first, because they usually know what they want, while I'm flexible.
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Midwestern, and Steve thanks for the information.
I think there are escorts on the site. Some are pretty easy to spot. Like how you can tell a girl is an escort on Facebook. I also see occasional use of the words snow bunny or snow something in the description. These are the words I used to see on escort ads.
When I set it up, I was thinking about using it in South America but never did anything. I recently started to try it again but switch my location to US west coast. I notice I got many favorites from all over the places as far as Philippines or Eastern Europe which I don't see the point to reply. And I must say some US women are picky in that many want others to accommodate them, not the other way around. It is quite different from South America.
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Usually Dinner Not so Flexible
[QUOTE=Midwestern;2411863]Good insights, Steve9696.
Did you ever have a long term (monthly) financial arrangement? If so, I would be curious what the arrangement was. I only had one, 5 k per month, and it was because she wanted to see me every day and even gave me a key to her apartment (plus, she had a body of a Hustler centerfold). Other girls were strict about number of dates, so it wasn't worth it.
I agree with everything you say, but one small exception. I would never do a dinner date as a first date. If there's no chemistry, then it's a waste of a couple of hours. Plus, I'm never horny on a full stomach, LOL. So, I always suggest meeting for drinks. We can split after the first drink if there's no chemistry.
And I especially agree with you that one great aspect of SA is that most of these gals might genuinely like you, since they are not emotionless professional escorts. During initial chit chat, the question of what each other is looking for always arises, and I usually want to hear what they're looking for first, because they usually know what they want, while I'm flexible.[/QUOTE]Usually I do dinner because I want to. I really enjoy spending the whole evening together and dinner is a great way to start that off. I am usually quite confident we'll have chemistry because we are often chatting for a couple weeks in advance. I can always tell by the chat whether we vibe well or are just going thru the motions. My London dinner was a bit of an exception because I found the Columbianas just the night before. But it worked out great.
But no question dinner adds a bunch of cost too. My Vegas dinners were like $200-250 each night. But I kinda just ignored it and I really enjoy the girls getting a real SD type night out.
I did one non dinner date where she really wouldn't vibe over chat. So we just went for drinks. This was in Miami. Another Columbiana LOL. But we drank and danced and did shots and hookah for a solid three hours before going to the room. This was early in SA for me and I was not setting price beforehand but playing by ear. I was on my way to Brazil so I could afford a fail and figured if she set price too high I'the walk. So after our theee hours in leaned in and said "hey you want to get out of here — if we go to the room I'll want to give you a gift — did you have something in mind?" And she said $400.
This is actually a reasonable and common price in the US and we were together four hours. I would have paid it. But forum friend Marelobomex had given me a priceless line that I used — "Ouch baby. That's the I don't want to go with I price. I thought you liked me. " And she immediately said 300 and off we went (best value to date — she was smokin hot. But what a priceless line. Thanks MM.
Oh and I am not very flexible I am only in town for 3 or 4 days and wAnt to ensure a fuck every night. So I am very careful to vet the girls beforehand Nd know I have a 90% chance of scoring.
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My SA experience so far
I joined SA about two mos ago. FYI, I am in the San Francisco area.
At first I received a lot of favorites and messages. Most were from my area. Some were from Venezuela, Phillipines, Europe and Africa.
So far I have met 9 women. The first mtgs were M&G over drinks where I offered $200 to show I was serious. Recap:
1. Eastern Euro. She appeared about 10 years older than pics. Was 30 min late to a bar that was 5 min from her place. Not seeing her again.
2. Early 20's Filipina. She changed the time by 3 hours while I was halfway to meeting. Made you turn and then I blocked.
3. Mainland Chinese. Late 20's. Hot bod. Boring. Wants $500 per mtg. I'm not interested. Bye!
4. 30 yr old Latina. Very good looking. Have hung out two more times. Platonic and I'm OK with that. A little too fussy and bossy. Probably done with her.
5. Viet. 23. Cute. Hung out twice. Too far to drive. I'm done.
6. Early 30's Colombian. Holy fuck. Hot! Wants $500 for two hours. I'm done.
7. 27 yr old Taiwanese. Cute. Drinks too much. A little psycho. I'm done.
8. 22 yr old in Guadalajara. Cute. Fatter in person. Nice girl. I'm done.
9. 23 yr old Filipina. Very cute. Enjoyed convo. Wants $500 per mtg. No time limit. Will see again because I am horny.
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SA vs Secret Benefits
Which site Seeking Arrangement or Secret Benefits is good in Europe? I'm an SA vet and currently still with my SB for over 3 years. Best addiction of my life. I'm planning a trip to Europe and prefer to meet a non-pro to be my companion while there. I'm talking several days to include overnights. I want a hot, young lady to take to clubs and stuff like that. Suggestions?
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[QUOTE=Vendelo;2412827]I joined SA about two mos ago. FYI, I am in the San Francisco area.
.[/QUOTE]Vendelo, I also used SA in SF. $500 per date is the nodal price point for SF, especially if she's hot. Maybe try some American girls. Many of the foreigners on there have an escort mindset. But the American girls are often just girl next door types, and cannot make ends meet and / or just want to date rich guys. I mentioned that half of my SA gals were without explicit financial arrangements. They just wanted to enjoy the finer things in life, like nice outings, and they would reciprocate with GFE. For explicit P4 P, the price point is also lower with most Americans too, especially in smaller markets. Good luck.
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Yeah $500 Seems Right
[QUOTE=Vendelo;2412827]I joined SA about two mos ago. FYI, I am in the San Francisco area.
At first I received a lot of favorites and messages. Most were from my area. Some were from Venezuela, Phillipines, Europe and Africa.
So far I have met 9 women. The first mtgs were M&G over drinks where I offered $200 to show I was serious. Recap:
1. Eastern Euro. She appeared about 10 years older than pics. Was 30 min late to a bar that was 5 min from her place. Not seeing her again.
2. Early 20's Filipina. She changed the time by 3 hours while I was halfway to meeting. Made you turn and then I blocked.
3. Mainland Chinese. Late 20's. Hot bod. Boring. Wants $500 per mtg. I'm not interested. Bye!
4. 30 yr old Latina. Very good looking. Have hung out two more times. Platonic and I'm OK with that. A little too fussy and bossy. Probably done with her.
5. Viet. 23. Cute. Hung out twice. Too far to drive. I'm done.
6. Early 30's Colombian. Holy fuck. Hot! Wants $500 for two hours. I'm done.
7. 27 yr old Taiwanese. Cute. Drinks too much. A little psycho. I'm done.
8. 22 yr old in Guadalajara. Cute. Fatter in person. Nice girl. I'm done.
9. 23 yr old Filipina. Very cute. Enjoyed convo. Wants $500 per mtg. No time limit. Will see again because I am horny.[/QUOTE]I agree with Midwestern that $500 would not surprise me in SF. $400 is quite common in most big cities. Although I've gotten $300 and even $200 (once) in second tier smaller cities with second tier girls. But definitely $400 minimum for a hottie. And even tho I got three girls in NYC to agree $400 it is clear $500 was more market price.
Now the above of course includes sex. And oh I’ve gotten with three local girls of late just doing drinks rather than dinner. These were the second tier girls where I didn’t really want to spend two hours gazing at them across the table. Worked the same, just a shorter and cheaper experience.
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[QUOTE=Steve9696;2413308]I agree with Midwestern that $500 would not surprise me in SF. $400 is quite common in most big cities. Although I've gotten $300 and even $200 (once) in second tier smaller cities with second tier girls. But definitely $400 minimum for a hottie. And even tho I got three girls in NYC to agree $400 it is clear $500 was more market price.
Now the above of course includes sex. And oh Ive gotten with three local girls of late just doing drinks rather than dinner. These were the second tier girls where I didnt really want to spend two hours gazing at them across the table. Worked the same, just a shorter and cheaper experience.[/QUOTE]Vendelo: Another thing to keep in mind is that SF is a prostitution haven. They are everywhere, including street walkers and in hotel lounges. And, SF is also an AMP haven. FS is available in most of them. So finding a cheap foreigner on SA isn't going to be easy, IMHO. Maybe try Americans and try areas north and south of SF, but not SF proper. If you don't mind traveling a little, I had very good success with SA in Portland, OR. Price point there is 300. And lots to choose from.
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2413272]Vendelo, I also used SA in SF. $500 per date is the nodal price point for SF, especially if she's hot. Maybe try some American girls. Many of the foreigners on there have an escort mindset. But the American girls are often just girl next door types, and cannot make ends meet and / or just want to date rich guys. I mentioned that half of my SA gals were without explicit financial arrangements. They just wanted to enjoy the finer things in life, like nice outings, and they would reciprocate with GFE. For explicit P4 P, the price point is also lower with most Americans too, especially in smaller markets. Good luck.[/QUOTE]Does "without explicit financial arrangements" mean you paid per meeting?
[QUOTE=Midwestern;2413337]Vendelo: Another thing to keep in mind is that SF is a prostitution haven. They are everywhere, including street walkers and in hotel lounges. And, SF is also an AMP haven. FS is available in most of them. So finding a cheap foreigner on SA isn't going to be easy, IMHO. Maybe try Americans and try areas north and south of SF, but not SF proper. If you don't mind traveling a little, I had very good success with SA in Portland, OR. Price point there is 300. And lots to choose from.[/QUOTE]MidW: thanks for the reply. I am actually mongering in the east bay. I've been mongering since '01: aamps, Korean aamps, AMPS, fetish houses.
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When you Hit the Jackpot
Virtually all my SA experiences have been good (17 of 18) but this one tops them all. Thought we need a good FR here so here it is. Long read.
So I had picked out three girls in Vegas and had great dates with all three. I was in touch with all three at least a month in advance and all were great about staying engaged as long distance girlfriends till my visit. This is a key qualifier as an escort will kick you to the curb if you want to chat much or not up for a date that week.
All three went to the room after dinner but wide variation in their experience level at SB so a ton of fun just for variety. They ranged from an SB virgin who I needed to seduce to a clearly confident girl who owned it. And one in between. The best by a mile was Krystal. Best SB experience to date so here it is in its full glory.
So Krystal had sent me a really explicit video the week before our date, which is really unusual. It set the stage for what a confident force of nature she is (reminds me a lot of my Brasileira Thifany). And sure enough Krystal is a confident wildcat of a girl. OMFG she rocked my world. I know a couple of you know Melty in London and it's that kind of super confident sex kitten kind of vibe.
So since Krystal was forward enough to send me pictures of her fucking herself (LOL) I change dinner to the Italian restaurant in my hotel. She's a bit late but she's in my Uber so I know when she arrives and meet her at the hotel lobby.
Wow. Super pretty girl. She's straightened her hair and it looks great that way. Tall girl -- 5-6 or better and spike heels. Displaying a ton of chest. Clearly solid see cups. And on the way to the restaurant she is chatty and bubbly. Like she knows she's the prettiest girl in the place (and she is! I pretty much love her from minute one!
We have a really great dinner. Girl 1 was a bit awkward. Girl 2 was solid. And Krystal is just absolutely great to hang with. There is no lag in the conversation. We talk about everything including her hot sisters. She doesn't try to put on airs or try to keep things private. Just a chatty bubbly open book.
After dinner we walk back into the main bar and casino area and I offer if she wants to get a drink somewhere or go to the room and she says up to me. So let's go to the room baby! Off we go.
There is no pretense at all with Krystal. Its clear she is DTF from minute one. I pour us some wine (man I am going through the Rose!) and we sit on the edge of the bed. Pretty soon we are both leaning in and making out. And then she puts her hand on my dick which is hard by now thru my jeans and says "I really like your dick". This is a bit of a theme. She likes to talk dirty which is not really my thing but it amuses me and she seems to like to do it. And best DFK of the three by far. She's a little hard to figure out, because she definitely has a ton of super experienced moves about her, but she really a regular girl and has a real job. Either way its great.
So I go take a leak and when I come back she asks if she can too -- sure no problem. And out she comes from the bathroom in a black teddy! Fuck! Well it doesn't take us long to get down to business. She's got a great set of see cups, kisses wonderfully, and has a sweet and juicy pussy. She does a pretty big amount of what would appear fake moaning and later screaming, but she is super sloppy, so some of it might be real who knows.
After a bit of DATY I stand up and she slides to the edge of the bed and then onto her knees and says "can I suck your cock?" Or course I say NO. Hahaha kidding. She can such cock for sure. Not as much BLS and licking as I like but she deep throats and is plenty sloppy and vocal -- pretty PSE. At some point she says "will you fuck me baby, I want you to fuck me". While not a fan, the dirty talk growing on me! So I say sure and suit up.
She is soooo sexy when she gets on her back -- those big doe eyes saying fuck me baby and kinda squirming around like she can't get your dick inside here soon enough. I think I'd had a few drinks (and several girls) because I don't remember it all. The mish is really good. Lots of DFK and serious pounding and her being very vocal. "oh my god baby just like that. Go slow and deeper. Oh my god". And a screeching build to apparent O. We move to cowgirl at some point and she fucks me really hard and heavy. Back to mish. We go for like 30 minutes plus.
After I cum, we are laying side by side I go to take the condom off and its not there! WTF? I go uh oh baby I seem to have lost something. She doesn't panic at all. She hops up, goes to the bathroom, and comes back bubbly as can be: "Yep, it was just inside. Theres cum in it so we should be good. But if you want I'll get a morning after pill, they cost like $40 if you don't mind paying -- I'll send you a pic of the receipt". And all this in just the bubbliest happy girl voice. Yeah, not too many girls fish a condom out of their pussy and quote you the price of Plan be. Hahaha! Who cares I kinda love her!
So we just relax comfortably for quite some time, her head on my chest, intertwined. I think we both doze for a bit. At some point, she awakens and her lips are about a foot from my cock and I start getting hard again. And kinda pull her up into DFK and she starts jacking me and we are off to the races again. Some truly great sloppy BJ to start. Some fabulous mish. Doggie. RCG. Loose the condom and do fingering deep while she is on her back and I am mouth fucking her.
We get another condom and go for a while. I mean shit it was probably an hour or more of this. And I feel guilty and while she is on her back looking sooooo sexy I say "sorry babe, but sometimes I am hard to finish" and she says "that's OK baby you can fuck me all night if you want!" OMFG and with that look in her eyes. WTF. A fucking goddess. I will remember her saying that till my deathbed. Unbelievable.
So we fuck some more and then go for BBBJ in several positions -- finally end with her between my legs and I great climax that she swallows without a second thought. This girl is hot chick dynamite.
We talk about her staying but I have a 7 AM call and she has to get up early to go to work also. So we shower and part ways but make plans to go again.
As it turns out I've already booked a repeat with Girl 1 for tonight and she is sooooo sweet I hate to cancel, so I book Krystal for Thursday and she is cool with that. So I get to sample a second date with both ladies. But in Krystal, I've found someone I really vibe with to the point that I would fly her to see me on some travel gig. I hate to waste London on her with so much going on there. But maybe if I travel her in the US I'll see if she'll join me. Anyhow, nice to meet someone I dig that much.
So, Seeking has delivered once again! And what a box of life experiences -- ranging from Girl 2, where I literally had to seduce her and get her horny to get her to break out the pussy -- to Krystal who is a full on rockstar pornstar sex bunny -- and Girl 1 right inbetween barebacking me in the heat of the moment.
OMG What a bunch of fun!
Next day.
So after seeing all three girls, Krystal was the clear winner by a mile. Unfortunately I had already booked Girl 2 again for Wed and I didn't want to cancel on her. I mean this is a bunch of coin for these girls. So I went ahead with that date. It was very good but nothing to write home about -- so I won't.
But my Thursday date with Krystal is one of my all time favorites. She's a keeper. I've only had two girls before who I would fly to London and skip my RoGirls. Thifany (Brazil) and Valentina (Buenos Aires). Krystal is the first stateside girl I would do that with. Plus I could fly her to lame venues like Detroit. I think she'd be down.
So we start by meeting at my hotel and head straight to the room. She was actually about 30 minutes late which offered me a new experience. As I am sipping my Hendricks Tonic in the lounge, a middle aged dude approaches and starts chatting me up. Says I am a handsome and sensitive man and asks for my number. Hahaha! That's a fucking first! LOL.
So Krystal arrives and she's even prettier than I remember. She just breezes in and lights up the place with her bubbly confidence. She has on a super short skirt, so short that it doesn't even come past her jacket. And a "diamond" choker. She is devastating. She is the best looking girl in the hotel and casino by a country mile.
Honestly just walking to the room I feel like a million bucks. She's my girl and everyone else can just stand and drool!
So we head to the room and pour some Rose. Just get on the bed together and drink and chat. So comfortable. Eventually there is soft kissing, turning to passionate DFK and my hand down between her thighs. Where I discover her bad girl black lace panties have a large hole and provide some nice pussy access.
Down I go for some DATY with some nice neck sucking (she loves this) and titty sucking (,her nipples get nicely erect) on the way. Then DATY, at first through the hole, but shortly we lose her panties and I give her some rip roaring DATY including Gspot fingering of course!
Her pussy is super wet and juicy. As Andy and I were just discussing, her being non-pro, it's not excessively washed clean of all smell. It has that perfect young girl pussy smell and when you drive your tongue fully inside there is even more uniquely awesome sauce!
We swap it up and she starts some very good BJ. She doesn't really lick as much as I like but I hesitate to direct her as her in and out is great and sloppy and her lips have just enough black girl in her to make them a joy to watch! Reminds me of Thifany actually. Watching the BJ is a highlight.
She is not shy and she likes to talk dirty. "Do you want to fuck me baby? I want that big dick inside me. " She does a pixie cartoon type of voice. I am not usually a fan of this showmanship but she pulls it off. And yes baby I will now fuck you. Thank you for asking!
We start in cowgirl and boy is she ready to ride. She does all variety of grinding and in and out and chest to chest and fully upright. It's really good but I have enormous stamina given the "hard" week. I do like sometimes to just make it really hard, push as deep as it will go and let her use me as her fuck buddy.
This apparently works as she cums two times spaced about 5 minutes apart. She's super vocal - "oh fuck baby. Shit shit shit. Fuck fuck oH my God I am cumming". It seems a bit made up but she is dripping wet and the second one I felt a couple light pussy clamps so she's definitely having a good time. And fuck she looks great up there riding, perfect see cups bouncing when I am not kneading the fuck out of them.
We swap over to Mish with Plenty of DFK and neck sucking while I fuck her deep. She's left on her heels and diamond choker which just adds to it all. And she is holding her heels with her hands on either side of my head. Super deep. Getting a boner writing this!
At some point I am exhausted and we call it and I ask her to finish by mouth. "Of course baby!" And she launches into some epic BBBJ with CIM and swallow. I love it when they swallow with a smile. Like its yummy. I did drink my pineapple juice so maybe it was!
We rest a bit in each other's arms. Actually I think we both fell asleep for a bit. This is the unrushed part and I love it. We shower together and get dressed and head off for dinner and nightlife. I had told her earlier that I had a surprise for her but she doesn't know what.
As we are exiting the hotel, I detour her into the Swarovski crystal shop. I had scoped it out beforehand and knew everything was affordable and being with this goddess I was super happy to play Real Sugar Daddy and OMG she was over the moon. We jointly picked out an amazing "diamond" necklace with matching earrings.
So we bounce to our Uber, Krystal wearing her new bling, and head to dinner. We are headed to a vibey place called Sake Rok. But when we arrive they say they closed at 10. Boo. But we find another sushi place inside the NYNY hotel And it is super good. Fuck I could look at her all day.
After dinner we bounce to Skyfall, a rooftop bar on the 64th floor of the Delano. Its 11:15 and they close at midnight but what the heck. Highly recommend. A view to die for. We go out on the heated patio and just snuggle and drink. All of Vegas spread at the king's feet. LOL. (we find out later it's a private area we were supposed to pay for but hey we got it free!
As midnight arrives we make it back to the hotel and pretty much crash -- fully clothed on the bed in each other's arms.
We are both fucking wiped out from alot of food and drink and we doze off. At various times I wake up or she stirs too and I have these very conflicted thoughts:
1. I am fucking wiped. It would feel so good to just sleep. I probably can't cum anyhow. I should just call it a night and let sleep take me.
2. Dude you fucking pansy. You have one more chance to fuck the hottest girl in Vegas What the fuck are you thinking!
And these go back and forth in my head as I variously sleep and wake for another hour or so.
Finally, reason prevails and I lean over and kiss her lightly on the cheeks. She stirs but clearly is also super sleepy and considering whether to do it again or not. Well awesome girlfriend that she is she also makes the right decision and swings her leg over me and gets on top and then rises up to fully clothed cowgirl and starts grinding away. I oblige by pushing my now mostly hard dick firmly against her pussy. OK its on!
Round two is much like round one. So she rides cowgirl a long time and gets off again -- she always finishes in cowgirl -- then I mount up in Mish and start some rythmic pounding. I actually try out the Andy move and put a pillow under her butt and fuck on my knees leaning back. I do it waaaay better this time than I did with Girl 1 and I must say the visual of you driving your dick in and out of this goddess is compelling! Thanks Andy! Plus she is strumming her clit good and enjoying being on the bottom.
Eventually tho I feel like I might get soft so I move back into traditional Mish and start a very rythmic pounding again. She starts doing a lot of dirty talk which I usually find offputting. But instead it's really distracting and sexy in a good way and I start to feel the slow build. WTF?
During all the stream of dirty talk -- "oooh fuck me baby. Just like that. Fuck my tight pussy with your big dick" - she throws in "Fuck me Daddy! OMG I just about laugh out loud but I love her zest for making an experience authentic!
Again strangely the dirty talk is working and I am using my trick of not focusing on my dick. I'm looking at her lips. And her slight bunny teeth. That tendon in her neck that is straining sexily. And Wham. We get it done! I am more surprised than anyone! She's a fucking magician and I tell her so.
Now we snuggle back together all naked and exhausted and start dosing again. No rush! And at some point I feel her rouse and she's taking off her necklaces to the bedside table. She's sleeping over! And sure enough we cuddle and spoon and sleep till my alarm hits at 6 AM. She just sleeps on.
As I leave, she rouses a bit when I give her a kiss or two and we say goodbye. Wow! What a girl and what a night! To be repeated for sure. It's just a question of when and where.
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Steve
Maybe I missed it in the long post, but what did these girls look like (including race), and how much did you pay them? Thanks.
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[QUOTE=Vendelo;2414543]Does "without explicit financial arrangements" mean you paid per meeting?
MidW: thanks for the reply. I am actually mongering in the east bay. I've been mongering since '01: aamps, Korean aamps, AMPS, fetish houses.[/QUOTE]Without explicit financial arrangement means I never gave them money. I just paid for our outings and trips. Maybe bought them a present every once in a while. I also did pay per date, and it was usually 500 per date in SF, but for that price point she had to be super hot, so I rarely did it. Price point is lower in other parts of the USA. I also had a monthly arrangement, but those are hard to find for me, because I get bored easily and quickly.
Sounds like you know what you're doing in the East Bay. I might ask for intel next time I'm in your neighborhood.
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Steve9696, Excellent FR. I also tried SA in Vegas, and to my surprise I had decent success. I didn't expect that, given how much work and chaos that SA is in SF. Maybe there's a lot of supply in Vegas. One gal told me that there are almost no decent paying jobs in Vegas, so maybe a lot of these gals, that might be working in a casino, are just trying to score some necessary extra cash. I used SA in another tourist location with much success, so maybe same story. Do you show these gals your picture before your first meetings? What do you promise them before you meet? Also, are you ever tempted to bareback these gals given they're not explicit pros?
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Vegas And Other Stuff
[QUOTE=Midwestern;2414650]Steve9696, Excellent FR. I also tried SA in Vegas, and to my surprise I had decent success. I didn't expect that, given how much work and chaos that SA is in SF. Maybe there's a lot of supply in Vegas. One gal told me that there are almost no decent paying jobs in Vegas, so maybe a lot of these gals, that might be working in a casino, are just trying to score some necessary extra cash. I used SA in another tourist location with much success, so maybe same story. Do you show these gals your picture before your first meetings? What do you promise them before you meet? Also, are you ever tempted to bareback these gals given they're not explicit pros?[/QUOTE]Yes all legit girls want a pic before you meet. In fact real girls ask pretty early on. I always suspect escort when they don't ask for pics. Pro tip: I wanted to use an online pic of me so I have legitimate deniability if it comes back to me. But I don't want it to be searchable. So I used my phone to take a pic of my computer screen with my pic on it. This ensures all the pixels are different and it's quite unsearchable.
When I started I figure agree the amount when you meetup. But I had a couple girls a little disappointed. I've decided it's better to settle the figure first. It's important to phrase it so it's not money for sex. They don't want to feel like escorts (I know U know this midwestern but for others). My three LV girls agreed $400.
And yes I barebacked with girl 1. Was not my idea. But on round two she just ripped the rubber off and mounted up cowgirl. I was powerless to resist! Even tho I did not CIP I asked her to take Plan be just in case and paid for it.
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Girls and Payment
[QUOTE=TheCane;2414621]Maybe I missed it in the long post, but what did these girls look like (including race), and how much did you pay them? Thanks.[/QUOTE]All three girls were smoking hot. Girl 1 a solid 9 face and body. Girl 2 more a seven but the way she dolls up with extensions and eyelashes and all she looks an 8 (looks a nine in pics! And Girl 3 Krystal is a 9 face and 8 body. Summary. All smokin hot!
All three were $400. But for my second date with Krystal I had just gotten a huge bonus and gave her $600. This actually seems more appropriate for the date I asked for which was:
Room and sex.
Dinner out.
Drinks out.
Room and sex.
It was a solid 4 hours without even counting her sleeping over which is an amazing benefit. Girl 1 slept over also. That's the amazing thing with SA. They decide what they want to do and it's not transactional.
Oh and I love my mixed girls:
Girl 1 = Black Filipina Italian
Girl 2 = Korean Vietnamese Mexican
Girl 3 = Black And Ukrainian.
I find mixes have the prettiest result.
PS it takes a lot of searching to find the girls that are pretty new to this. Not one of them was like “my regular price is 500” or any of that. I had to work the conversation delicately. I think u get better deals and better experience from girls where they will let u lead them a bit.
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[QUOTE=Steve9696;2414677]Yes all legit girls want a pic before you meet. In fact real girls ask pretty early on. I always suspect escort when they don't ask for pics. Pro tip: I wanted to use an online pic of me so I have legitimate deniability if it comes back to me. But I don't want it to be searchable. So I used my phone to take a pic of my computer screen with my pic on it. This ensures all the pixels are different and it's quite unsearchable.
When I started I figure agree the amount when you meetup. But I had a couple girls a little disappointed. I've decided it's better to settle the figure first. It's important to phrase it so it's not money for sex. They don't want to feel like escorts (I know U know this midwestern but for others). My three LV girls agreed $400.
And yes I barebacked with girl 1. Was not my idea. But on round two she just ripped the rubber off and mounted up cowgirl. I was powerless to resist! Even tho I did not CIP I asked her to take Plan be just in case and paid for it.[/QUOTE]I agree with you on all your pointers. Though I never show my pic before the meet and greet, so it wastes some of my time. I guess I'm paranoid. In fact, I specifically use Hushed, the app that gives you a phone number to use anonymously. The SA site recommends it in fact. At first, Hushed sucked, because connection was poor and often experienced glitches, but it has worked out their kinks. And you're totally right that if the girl doesn't care what you look like, then they are an escort. And finally, you're exactly right that many of these SA girls can genuinely like you, which is a huge plus.
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[QUOTE=CPalmson;2412994]Which site Seeking Arrangement or Secret Benefits is good in Europe? I'm an SA vet and currently still with my SB for over 3 years. Best addiction of my life. I'm planning a trip to Europe and prefer to meet a non-pro to be my companion while there. I'm talking several days to include overnights. I want a hot, young lady to take to clubs and stuff like that. Suggestions?[/QUOTE]SA works very well in Europe, no problems. I am from Sweden and use SA at home as well as on travel in Europe.
Where in Europe are you going? I mights have some tips. .
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Thanks for the info. I'm coming over in May.
[QUOTE=BlueSwede;2414774]SA works very well in Europe, no problems. I am from Sweden and use SA at home as well as on travel in Europe.
Where in Europe are you going? I mights have some tips. .[/QUOTE]
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[QUOTE=BlueSwede;2414774]SA works very well in Europe, no problems. I am from Sweden and use SA at home as well as on travel in Europe.
Where in Europe are you going? I mights have some tips..[/QUOTE]Thanks for the info. I'm coming in May. London and Frankfurt.
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Good to learn more about all this. Some more questions from a newbie:
Do y'all mainly use when traveling, or even while at home? If so, do you actually bring the girls back to your place, or get a hotel room for the night? And do you use your real name or phone number? I'm guessing no on the phone at the very least?
I can see this potentially being a fun thing to do when traveling, but I'd get pretty paranoid doing it at home.
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Traveling is Best
[QUOTE=RedVBlue;2415081]Good to learn more about all this. Some more questions from a newbie:
Do y'all mainly use when traveling, or even while at home? If so, do you actually bring the girls back to your place, or get a hotel room for the night? And do you use your real name or phone number? I'm guessing no on the phone at the very least?
I can see this potentially being a fun thing to do when traveling, but I'd get pretty paranoid doing it at home.[/QUOTE]Best to just do it when traveling. Two big problems locally finding a place to meet up that is discreet and if you book the hotel it will have your name and probsbly address on it. Better to stick to traveling only. Might consider locally an advanced skill if at all.
If you are a girl enthusiast then having a burner phone is pretty much a must. Treat it like a live grenade tho. Never use your real name with a girl ever. At least that's my advise if you have something to lose.
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[QUOTE=RedVBlue;2415081]Good to learn more about all this. Some more questions from a newbie:
Do y'all mainly use when traveling, or even while at home? If so, do you actually bring the girls back to your place, or get a hotel room for the night? And do you use your real name or phone number? I'm guessing no on the phone at the very least?
I can see this potentially being a fun thing to do when traveling, but I'd get pretty paranoid doing it at home.[/QUOTE]I mainly used it at home. I tried using it while traveling, but it usually takes too much time (I did get lucky once though, while on a short business trip). At home, I either booked a hotel or used their place. I usually didn't use my real name and I downloaded Hushed for calls and texts. When I say I used it at home, it means nearby city. For example, if you live in Oakland, then find gals living in SF or find undergrads at Berkeley. But you need to ask them where they really live. Almost everyone lies on that site. Gals don't reveal where they really live, but neither did I. For most part, there's little to be paranoid about. They know what they are in for, so there should be no awkwardness if you accidentally run into them. My main concern was that she was a colleague or someone from my personal circle. So I had to ask a bunch of questions to make sure she wasn't.
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2411228]Let's use this thread to discuss and share SA experiences, tips, advice, etc.
I was on SA for 18 months in the states and had 25 gals. About half were just gals that wanted to enjoy fancy dinners, being spoiled, going on trips, etc. No monetary transaction was ever involved. But other half involved were explicit monetary arrangements. But its a LOT of work.[/QUOTE]I have been with SA on and off for 4 years. Mostly on, and when I was off, I tried secret benefits and a couple of other sites but SA has been my best site for a while. I am icky enough to be living in a reasonably priced and yet large enough city with more than a million metropolitan population and much larger if including the greater area in a driving distance of 60 to 80 minutes. Prices have ranged between 200 to 300. Occasionally paid up more if the girl is super hot, but 300 dollars is good enough for even very pretty 20 year old slim white girls. I had the least luck with Asian girls, this area is not full of Asians and they still have the platinum pussy attitude here. Some Latino girls are willing to put out for as low as 150 and some other Latino girls have demanded as much as 1,000 which I thought was crazy talk. White girls are generally reasonable, but every now and then you run into the princess attitude.
The biggest problem is the sheer number of fakers, no sex girls, girls looking for online only arrangements, and many outright scammers. It is a lot of work. But I the end it is all rewarding if you get hold of some good girls. The good news is that over time you build your database. Now I have several dozen girls in my stable so to speak. Sure, some of them change numbers and disappear. But many still answer back.
I am married and have a challenging time in balancing my secretive life on SA, occasional FKK visits with normal married life not to mention the job. I will not give away all my secrets how I do this. But time is as critical as money with these constraints.
On the whole, I am quite satisfied with SA and sugar babe sites in general. It can be an expensive hobby but if you can afford it, with some moderate amount of spending capital, you can have a reasonably OK sex encounters with young pretty girls right here in the US. I have live to tell the tale about this.
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[QUOTE=RedVBlue;2415081]Good to learn more about all this. Some more questions from a newbie:
Do y'all mainly use when traveling, or even while at home? If so, do you actually bring the girls back to your place, or get a hotel room for the night? And do you use your real name or phone number? I'm guessing no on the phone at the very least?
I can see this potentially being a fun thing to do when traveling, but I'd get pretty paranoid doing it at home.[/QUOTE]Both. Mostly at home. As I said in another post, I am lucky enough to live in a reasonably priced city. When I travel to San Fran or NYC, the prices over there are invariably higher, much higher in fact. Why pay $600 for a so so girl when I can have a prettier, younger girl for 300 at home? One advantage is that on the road, if it is a business trip, hotel is already paid for but you can always rent a cheap motel for 50-100 close to where I live.
That said, I have used SA many times when I am on the road.
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[QUOTE=Pessimist;2416655]Both. Mostly at home. As I said in another post, I am lucky enough to live in a reasonably priced city. When I travel to San Fran or NYC, the prices over there are invariably higher, much higher in fact. Why pay $600 for a so so girl when I can have a prettier, younger girl for 300 at home? One advantage is that on the road, if it is a business trip, hotel is already paid for but you can always rent a cheap motel for 50-100 close to where I live.
That said, I have used SA many times when I am on the road.[/QUOTE]Do you have any advice on negotiating on price? SA tells the girl not to go to a room at the meet and greet. Do you find most girls not wanting to go to a hotel on the first meeting? Thanks. Still an amateur.
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Home location?
I'the be curious to know what your home city is.
[QUOTE=Pessimist;2416654]I have been with SA on and off for 4 years. Mostly on, and when I was off, I tried secret benefits and a couple of other sites but SA has been my best site for a while. I am icky enough to be living in a reasonably priced and yet large enough city with more than a million metropolitan population and much larger if including the greater area in a driving distance of 60 to 80 minutes. Prices have ranged between 200 to 300. Occasionally paid up more if the girl is super hot, but 300 dollars is good enough for even very pretty 20 year old slim white girls. I had the least luck with Asian girls, this area is not full of Asians and they still have the platinum pussy attitude here. Some Latino girls are willing to put out for as low as 150 and some other Latino girls have demanded as much as 1,000 which I thought was crazy talk. White girls are generally reasonable, but every now and then you run into the princess attitude.
The biggest problem is the sheer number of fakers, no sex girls, girls looking for online only arrangements, and many outright scammers. It is a lot of work. But I the end it is all rewarding if you get hold of some good girls. The good news is that over time you build your database. Now I have several dozen girls in my stable so to speak. Sure, some of them change numbers and disappear. But many still answer back.
I am married and have a challenging time in balancing my secretive life on SA, occasional FKK visits with normal married life not to mention the job. I will not give away all my secrets how I do this. But time is as critical as money with these constraints.
On the whole, I am quite satisfied with SA and sugar babe sites in general. It can be an expensive hobby but if you can afford it, with some moderate amount of spending capital, you can have a reasonably OK sex encounters with young pretty girls right here in the US. I have live to tell the tale about this.[/QUOTE].
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2417084]I'the be curious to know what your home city is..[/QUOTE]Yeah, I have to keep it confidential for obvious reasons. Especially as I said I am married and taking a huge risk with all these extracurricular activities. BTW, I have used SA in some bigger cities too, paid 300 to 350 in Boston multiple times and a bit less than that in Chicago. Florida is cheap if you are traveling there, although some girls in Miami demanded a large amount. By far the worst experience has been in San Fran, I never got anyone to accept less than 500 and many demanded 150 to 200 just to have dinner with me. BTW, I always have a dinner or lunch prior to the sex as I want to assess the vibe and due to entrapment fears, I want to get a read on body language through a dinner prior to the meet. Also, I stick to white girls in the 20-25 age group, slim and pretty. Or fair skinned Latinas. If I relax my race, age or body shape criteria, rates may get cheaper I suspect.
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BTW, I also used hushed. I like it. If needed, I can delete the app off my phone and download back. This matters due to my martial status.
I do have my photo uploaded. I keep it private and open it up to girls who asked for it. If you are not careful pretty soon, several dozens of girls have my photo. So, Every few days, I go back to my profile, turn off access to my photo to everyone with one button, and start opening it again when they ask them. I use the same photo as is in my whatsapp and email and phone messaging, so that if ever it comes to it, I can say that particular photo is already in the open domain. But so far, I have been lucky, and worlds have not collided (Seinfeld reference).
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[QUOTE=Akibono;2417061]Do you have any advice on negotiating on price? SA tells the girl not to go to a room at the meet and greet. Do you find most girls not wanting to go to a hotel on the first meeting? Thanks. Still an amateur.[/QUOTE]Generally, I also want to avoid sex in the first meet. As I said, I am afraid of entrapment (perhaps an irrational fear, but we can't be rational all the time), also a first meet and greet does give a chance to get to know, understand, reflect and if still liking the girl, get back with her. Also, as someone else mentioned, the ones who agree to have sex before even the first meet and greet are more likely professional girls and that is usually not my ideal spec. The genuine student, waitress or bartender, office receptionist or even young single mom types may want to also get to know you before agreeing to fuck. I did have sex on some first dates. But in those situations, we still met for a lunch or dinner, spent some time talking, and we both decided we liked each other enough and went to a room nearby. The agreement happened during the meet, not before the meet.
All of the above is in arrangements that happened in my home city. When I'm on the road, it is a different situation. If you are in a city for only 3 days for business and one of them included a business dinner late into the night, you don't have the luxury of meet and greet and then sex the next day. In those scenarios, I break my rule and go with sex despite my fear of entrapment. We keep the discussion as generic as possible, IE. No mention of sex anywhere in the text messages. But when allowance of a few hundred is discussed, the girl knows sex is on the table. Only one time a girl came to my room and pretended to be shocked that I wanted sex. I said "how did you expect to receive 300 with no sex"?
Anyway, to your question, I think most girls are definitely not wanting to go to a room for the simple reason that 50% or more of "girls" on SA are total scammers and fakes. This is my anecdotal experience. Of the remaining, some are strictly no sex girls, and some have very high expectations in terms of allowance and so on. Again, this is in my sample, which is limited to slim white girls younger than 25 years old. Stats may differ at other age groups, in other cities. The ones who are nice, will have sex at reasonable prices are also careful like we are, and will only have sex after a long discussion, a couple of dates and so on.
As for price negotiation, it is jut about being patient. I hardly ever pay more than 400, try to stay below 300 most of the time if possible; I reach out to many many girls because I feel that if I cast a wide net I may catch what I want at a good price. If I was a single man, I probably would be more flexible but part of my challenge is that I need to keep my expenses low enough so that the missing money is never noticed by my spouse.
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This sounds very much like my MO too. And yeah, casting a wide net is key. Being picky is a waste of time. When I was active on SA, I would send at least half dozen new greetings per day. But you do have to spend some time to read their profiles so that you can write something to stand out. These gals are getting so many messages, so you need to stand out.
[QUOTE=Pessimist;2417305]Generally, I also want to avoid sex in the first meet. As I said, I am afraid of entrapment (perhaps an irrational fear, but we can't be rational all the time), also a first meet and greet does give a chance to get to know, understand, reflect and if still liking the girl, get back with her. Also, as someone else mentioned, the ones who agree to have sex before even the first meet and greet are more likely professional girls and that is usually not my ideal spec. The genuine student, waitress or bartender, office receptionist or even young single mom types may want to also get to know you before agreeing to fuck. I did have sex on some first dates. But in those situations, we still met for a lunch or dinner, spent some time talking, and we both decided we liked each other enough and went to a room nearby. The agreement happened during the meet, not before the meet.
All of the above is in arrangements that happened in my home city. When I'm on the road, it is a different situation. If you are in a city for only 3 days for business and one of them included a business dinner late into the night, you don't have the luxury of meet and greet and then sex the next day. In those scenarios, I break my rule and go with sex despite my fear of entrapment. We keep the discussion as generic as possible, IE. No mention of sex anywhere in the text messages. But when allowance of a few hundred is discussed, the girl knows sex is on the table. Only one time a girl came to my room and pretended to be shocked that I wanted sex. I said "how did you expect to receive 300 with no sex"?
Anyway, to your question, I think most girls are definitely not wanting to go to a room for the simple reason that 50% or more of "girls" on SA are total scammers and fakes. This is my anecdotal experience. Of the remaining, some are strictly no sex girls, and some have very high expectations in terms of allowance and so on. Again, this is in my sample, which is limited to slim white girls younger than 25 years old. Stats may differ at other age groups, in other cities. The ones who are nice, will have sex at reasonable prices are also careful like we are, and will only have sex after a long discussion, a couple of dates and so on.
As for price negotiation, it is jut about being patient. I hardly ever pay more than 400, try to stay below 300 most of the time if possible; I reach out to many many girls because I feel that if I cast a wide net I may catch what I want at a good price. If I was a single man, I probably would be more flexible but part of my challenge is that I need to keep my expenses low enough so that the missing money is never noticed by my spouse.[/QUOTE].
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Sa
With respect to reports below. I try to get through the price per meet before meeting. I say I don't do allowances because my schedule is not predictable. I tell them I'd like to meet at the bar of the hotel and get to know each other first. And, if agreeable come up to my room to get more familiar. Obviously, this is an upscale hotel and that makes them more comfortable. The idea that we would go up to my room speaks for itself on planned activities. And, we meet first before commitment which makes them feel more comfortable.
Meeting for lunch or coffee never fucking ever goes anywhere. Girls know if they're going to fuck you the second they see you. Give them time and they chicken out or some freaking thing happens.
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[QUOTE=FunForMikey;2418280]With respect to reports below. I try to get through the price per meet before meeting. I say I don't do allowances because my schedule is not predictable. I tell them I'd like to meet at the bar of the hotel and get to know each other first. And, if agreeable come up to my room to get more familiar. Obviously, this is an upscale hotel and that makes them more comfortable. The idea that we would go up to my room speaks for itself on planned activities. And, we meet first before commitment which makes them feel more comfortable.
Meeting for lunch or coffee never fucking ever goes anywhere. Girls know if they're going to fuck you the second they see you. Give them time and they chicken out or some freaking thing happens.[/QUOTE]In my city, there are so many fakes and flakes on SA. If you hit up white girls in the 18-25 range with attractive photos and slim bodies, only a small percent even respond back. Of the girls that respond back, some want only an online relationship. Some say that they will meet but will only entertain a platonic arrangement but expect $500 to $1000 a month for purely platonic arrangements. Some girls are willing to do NSA and more but demand a cash app payment sent to them before any first meet. Some agree to meet but want to get paid cash at the meet. Yesterday one girl demanded $50 for a coffee meet and $100 for a lunch meet. She gave a reasonable $250 to $300 for FwB ppm but will not budge on the $50 to $100 initial meet and greet payment.
This is the reality where I live. If you have better luck in your area, good for you. But I have been doing this for 4 years and had several dozen SBs over time, and the above situation has been consistent over time.
The issue is all about the first meet. Once I met a girl, we know each other, it is never a problem from second meet on. We know what we each want and have some amount of trust. But first meet is always tricky.
If I am on the road and already have a hotel, I can ask the girl to meet at my hotel. But in my home city, I am not going to rent a hotel room without knowing the girl will show up for sure. Given how many flakes there are on the site, it would be foolish to rent a room, and hope that the girl will show up. I know guys who have done it and looked like fools being stuck with a room but no girl.
I think if you get a good SB, you should hold onto her. Sure, I like to sample as many girls as possible, but I go to FKKs for this. If I get a really good girl, I try to do at least a few months with her, assuming one or two meets a month. This implies say, ten fucks in a few months? I have fucked some FKK girls many more times than that, such as Megan in Sharks, Lavinia in Oase and so on. I am able to tolerate ten fuck sessions with a good girl spanning a few months.
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I prefer SA gals that live an hour or two away from me. This means that a meet and greet can take up to an entire half day. So I often hope for instant chemistry, so that we can just waltz to the hotel room, so sometimes I roll the dice and book a room for the first date. But like Pessimist says, many times the gal doesn't show up, and I'm stuck with a room. One might think it's easy to just quickly book a room (on an app) after the gal shows up and chemistry is established, but you still have you still check in, which means she'll find out your real identity.
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I'm going to Be.
So I've been reading a lot of Nanpa (Japanese street pickup) of late and it has a lot of very helpful tips for closing the deal with girls in general and therefore SA girls. Without it there is no way I would have closed Jesse in Las Vegas (full story available if anyone is interested) but more recently it's been helping me increase my contact rate on SA!
The idea is after you "open" a girl on the street and I want to get her to drinks or such you don't say "do you want to xxx". You say "I'm going to go do xxx. Want to come". It's a subtle difference but it's a difference.
So on SA I used to try to think up clever things to say and how to catch their attention. The past two days I've just been saying "I'm going to XX to do YYY on Saturday. Want to join me?" And the number of responses has spiked dramatically. Still some ways to go to see which deal I close if any but it is interesting how quick I get interest this way.
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Agree
Maybe take it a tad further. State it as a command. "Meet me at xxxx at xx:00 PM. " I learned this from a friend who was taking psychology courses. He said most of us are indecisive, mostly because we worry too much about making bad decisions, so it relaxes a person to take that nervousness away from them. My success rate is way, way better when I say "let's go to my room" as opposed to "want to go to my room?"
[QUOTE=Steve9696;2418902]So I've been reading a lot of Nanpa (Japanese street pickup) of late and it has a lot of very helpful tips for closing the deal with girls in general and therefore SA girls. Without it there is no way I would have closed Jesse in Las Vegas (full story available if anyone is interested) but more recently it's been helping me increase my contact rate on SA!
The idea is after you "open" a girl on the street and I want to get her to drinks or such you don't say "do you want to xxx". You say "I'm going to go do xxx. Want to come". It's a subtle difference but it's a difference.
So on SA I used to try to think up clever things to say and how to catch their attention. The past two days I've just been saying "I'm going to XX to do YYY on Saturday. Want to join me?" And the number of responses has spiked dramatically. Still some ways to go to see which deal I close if any but it is interesting how quick I get interest this way.[/QUOTE].
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[QUOTE=Pessimist;2417305]Generally, I also want to avoid sex in the first meet. As I said, I am afraid of entrapment (perhaps an irrational fear, but we can't be rational all the time), also a first meet and greet does give a chance to get to know, understand, reflect and if still liking the girl, get back with her. Also, as someone else mentioned, the ones who agree to have sex before even the first meet and greet are more likely professional girls and that is usually not my ideal spec. The genuine student, waitress or bartender, office receptionist or even young single mom types may want to also get to know you before agreeing to fuck. I did have sex on some first dates. But in those situations, we still met for a lunch or dinner, spent some time talking, and we both decided we liked each other enough and went to a room nearby. The agreement happened during the meet, not before the meet..[/QUOTE]Finally going on my first date. I find the process quite awkward since I am new to this. My main concern is not being stuck with a skanky ho or being robbed. In the states, you have to worry more about scams. We agreed to meet at a place for a bite or drink and then go up to the hotel. How is payment typically handled? I presume you pay at the beginning, but I am a bit concerned that the gal will grab the money and run and I will have to face her pimp. But I also understand that the girl does not want to be stiffed too. I never have problems with escorts because they know the drill. I am going to put the money out and she can take it when she leaves. I think that is a good compromise. What do you think are some risks I am not aware of? I am single so I am not worried about them knowing my name, but I am a bit concerned about my car since plates can easily be traced. Don't want strangers showing up at my place. Not cool.
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Wow. So wrong!
[QUOTE=Akibono;2430764]Finally going on my first date. I find the process quite awkward since I am new to this. My main concern is not being stuck with a skanky ho or being robbed. In the states, you have to worry more about scams. We agreed to meet at a place for a bite or drink and then go up to the hotel. How is payment typically handled? I presume you pay at the beginning, but I am a bit concerned that the gal will grab the money and run and I will have to face her pimp. But I also understand that the girl does not want to be stiffed too. I never have problems with escorts because they know the drill. I am going to put the money out and she can take it when she leaves. I think that is a good compromise. What do you think are some risks I am not aware of? I am single so I am not worried about them knowing my name, but I am a bit concerned about my car since plates can easily be traced. Don't want strangers showing up at my place. Not cool.[/QUOTE]Dude if you are worried about these things you are doing it all wrong. A quality SA has none of these worries! She doesn't have a pimp for fuck sake! She's just a regular girl getting a bit of extra cash. Not a hardened pro. She is way more scared about the encounter than you should ever be. At least these are the girls I find worthy on SA. And you can spot the pros a mile away.
As far as money with the right girl I get a thank you note and write a personal note and include the cash. She doesn't want to feel like a hooker. So help her out! And I never put it in plain sight. Always under the ice bucket or something. She hasn't seen any inkling of a dollar until we are fully wrapped up! Shit my London girl I forgot. And she didn't even ask till 4.5 hours later we were in the hall "did you have a gift for me?
These are the girls that are the gems on SA. If I had to worry about all the shit you list I would never do SA.
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I agree with Steve
At Akibono, SA gals are not supposed be escorts. If you're looking for an escort, look elsewhere. SA gals are supposed to be NSA GFs. If you don't get that vibe from your date, then take a pass.
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Some ideas
[QUOTE=CPalmson;2412994]Which site Seeking Arrangement or Secret Benefits is good in Europe? I'm an SA vet and currently still with my SB for over 3 years. Best addiction of my life. I'm planning a trip to Europe and prefer to meet a non-pro to be my companion while there. I'm talking several days to include overnights. I want a hot, young lady to take to clubs and stuff like that. Suggestions?[/QUOTE]I was going through these conversations and I thought I could give some tips on this idea.
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2431062]At Akibono, SA gals are not supposed be escorts. If you're looking for an escort, look elsewhere. SA gals are supposed to be NSA GFs. If you don't get that vibe from your date, then take a pass.[/QUOTE]Thanks both of you for the input. I am still getting familiar with the system. I do not have enough experience to tell the difference between a gal that is trying to avoid the scammers who want things for free and those that want to scam you. I am experienced enough to know how to be careful. I have never had a problem with a European escort. But in the USA and Canada what is advertised is often what does not show up. I have experienced a demand for payment when you refuse them. I am sure after a few M and G I can handle the situation. How do you tell the difference between the professionals and those that just know how the system operates? Do you always negotiate the gifts in advance? If you do, how do you avoid making the situation feel like an escort?
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Sugar Baby Site
Hello Fellow Mongers (newbie).
Has anyone used this site [URL]https://sugarbook.com[/URL] to get SB's in Europe?
Thanks.
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Read this entire thread
Lots of good advice in this thread already. All of Steve's advice are particularly good. But many others have also provided their valuable information on their experience too.
[QUOTE=Akibono;2431116]Thanks both of you for the input. I am still getting familiar with the system. I do not have enough experience to tell the difference between a gal that is trying to avoid the scammers who want things for free and those that want to scam you. I am experienced enough to know how to be careful. I have never had a problem with a European escort. But in the USA and Canada what is advertised is often what does not show up. I have experienced a demand for payment when you refuse them. I am sure after a few M and G I can handle the situation. How do you tell the difference between the professionals and those that just know how the system operates? Do you always negotiate the gifts in advance? If you do, how do you avoid making the situation feel like an escort?[/QUOTE].
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1 photos
Your Fears Are Not Unwarranted (Robbing Crews)
[QUOTE=Akibono;2430764]What do you think are some risks I am not aware of? I am single so I am not worried about them knowing my name, but I am a bit concerned about my car since plates can easily be traced. Don't want strangers showing up at my place. Not cool.[/QUOTE]See the attached photo where I got myself into a situation that I had no idea of how to escape.
More on that in just a minute.
I know this is an international site, but most guys forget the distinction. What happens in Europe on SA will not work the same in the US. Prostitution is 100% illegal in the US, and most of the scammers and robbing crews on these SB websites are banking on the fact that you will not go to the authorities should they catch you slipping and set you up. I mean, it's illegal right? How much sympathy would you expect the cops to have for you?
Another thing guys fail to realize about SB websites is that you and the female are diametrically opposed:
-Her goal is to get as much out of you as possible without having to do anything for it. Let alone have sex! Most of them would love for you to Cash App them money without them ever having to meet you in person.
-Your goal is to get sex from her without shelling out a bunch of money on gifts and useless dinner dates just to finally get to bang her. Kinda sounds exactly like regular dating, right?
For the REAL SBs on those websites, they basically want a guy that would be someone they would see being someone they would actually be in a boyfriend / girlfriend relationship with, with the added benefit of this person giving them money. Think the Billionaire character in the 50 Shades of Gray movie who has the three 6's all women want: 6-pack, 6-feet tall, 6-figures.
A fat slob that wants to give her money for her honey? "I'm not a pr0 stitut3!
Back to my story.
My main protocol on SA is to never ever agree to meet with any female on SA without FIRST video chatting with her either via FaceTime, Google Hangouts, or Duo because I do not post any photos that show my face (I am also not going to send Snaps via Snapchat back and forth, the conversation has to be in real-time). This cuts down significantly on scammers who are using fake profiles and pretending to be the females in the photos to dupe suckers into sending photos of themselves (yes, there are gangs on those sites profiling "Whales". More on that later).
I only discuss monetary "help" and potential meeting dates / times / locations via video chat, and this has always been fool-proof. Until it isn't.
The broad in the text messaging screenshot attached: We video chat and she seems to be at home alone at the time. Works a normal job and we schedule a time to meet around her work schedule.
(Also key: always try to do these meetings during the early daylight hours, as you will see why in a minute).
We agree to meet at a Starbucks in my area (a very nice part of town).
I get there early and pick a spot in the back of the place near the restrooms. Closer to the meeting time for her to arrive, I look towards the front of the store and there are a handful of Latino males and females pacing out front. They caught my attention so quickly because the looked very much out of place there. One of the younger guys is looking into the store from outside and we lock eyes. They eventually come into the store and go to the counter. The males are paired up with the females and it is made to look like they are all on a date. They sit at a long table not too far from where I was positioned.
I then get a text from the girl I am supposed to be meeting and she says "I'm here". I then reply "I'm inside".
She then texts back the following:
"he said he's inside".
"Wrong person".
"Sorry I didn't mean to send that".
I then freeze the fuck up. "Damn, what's my next move?
100% sure at this point that the Latino crew is with the chick I am supposed to meet (she was a latina). I then get on my cell phone and pretend to be talking to someone. The girl I am meeting finally comes in and walks over to me and sits, looking hella embarrassed by the fact that she's given up the game.
"Who were you talking to?" I say. She replies "I didn't mean to send that. " And that's it. Since again I am certain she is with the young Latino crew, something in my mind tells me to remove this chick from the situation. I immediately get up and say "there's too many people in here. LE't go for a walk" and start to head for the door. She follows promptly behind me.
To shorten this story up a bit, we walk on the strip of this Starbucks and I talk to her as if we are still trying to determine when would be good day and time for her to come over and how much she wanted for it. But I knew I was going to block this scamming h03's number as soon as I could get clear of her. Good thing working in my favor was that she nor they had any idea what I drove there in since I arrived super early (and she was late).
We come back from a bit down the sidewalk of the main street and I stop in front of a BBQ joint that is also on the same strip but a but further down. I tell her "cool, I'll hit you up and we can talk more as we get closer to the date of us meeting. " I give her a hug and then tell her "I'm going to get some lunch!" And then I disappear into the BBQ joint.
Now at this point I am still trying to plot my escape. I had no idea if the Latinos where watching from Starbucks or not. From the restaurant I stand inside and look at my phone like I am waiting on a friend to arrive. I see the scammer girl get into her car and leave, and I keep my eyes on the Starbucks from the restaurant. A little bit later I see the young Latino group all leave out of Starbucks and start to head in the direction of the restaurant. They pause about halfway, linger for a bit, and then go back into the Starbucks. At this point I haul ass to my car, jump in, put it in gear, roll quickly out of the parking lot and blow through the red light.
Just in case I was being tailed, I went out of my way to make wild, sudden turns onto new streets, bust you-turns, and take a much longer route back to my place.
Parting advice for newbs:
Never EVER show your face on those SB websites. All of my photos on Seeking Arrangements have my face blurred or blacked out. Some of those SB websites will not let you hide your face; I would not use those sites at all. You are setting yourself up to be robbed once the robbing crews know what "Big Bank Hank" looks like. Remember how escorts used to hide their faces on Backpage or Craigslist? YOU are the prize on the SB sites. You need to do the same.
Also, never EVER agree to meet a female in person unless you video chat via FaceTime or Google Hangouts or Duo FIRST. Obviously it does not save you from scammers 100% of the time as I have demonstrated in the above story, but my experience has been that it filters out a lot of chaff. Any chick that runs away when you tell them to video chat with you first is 100% a scam chick or not the chick in the photos.
If they ask me to send a photo, I tell them video chat only. Do not send a photo of yourself! I would say at least 85% of the younger female profiles who are less than 25 yrs old are probably Pookie's or Paco's trying to see if you are stupid enough to give away as much personal details about yourself as possible in order for them to figure out where you live and what you drive.
And don't be so much of a chump that you would send money to a chick you've never met in person! I have had females on SA tell me that they need to be compensated to talk to me via video chat or for meeting me in person. If a chick tells you she needs to be compensated for meeting you or talking with you via video chat to determine if the two of you could potentially help one another out, tell that h0 e to get lost!
Hope someone out there gets value from this post and use it to avoid getting got.
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OMG Do Not Follow This Advice
[QUOTE=SavePros321;2432465]See the attached photo where I got myself into a situation that I had no idea of how to escape.
More on that in just a minute.
I know this is an international site, but most guys forget the distinction. What happens in Europe on SA will not work the same in the US. Prostitution is 100% illegal in the US, and most of the scammers and robbing crews on these SB websites are banking on the fact that you will not go to the authorities should they catch you slipping and set you up. I mean, it's illegal right? How much sympathy would you expect the cops to have for you?
Another thing guys fail to realize about SB websites is that you and the female are diametrically opposed:
-Her goal is to get as much out of you as possible without having to do anything for it. Let alone have sex! Most of them would love for you to Cash App them money without them ever having to meet you in person.
-Your goal is to get sex from her without shelling out a bunch of money on gifts and useless dinner dates just to finally get to bang her. Kinda sounds exactly like regular dating, right?
For the REAL SBs on those websites, they basically want a guy that would be someone they would see being someone they would actually be in a boyfriend / girlfriend relationship with, with the added benefit of this person giving them money. Think the Billionaire character in the 50 Shades of Gray movie who has the three 6's all women want: 6-pack, 6-feet tall, 6-figures.
A fat slob that wants to give her money for her honey? "I'm not a pr0 stitut3!
Back to my story.
My main protocol on SA is to never ever agree to meet with any female on SA without FIRST video chatting with her either via FaceTime, Google Hangouts, or Duo because I do not post any photos that show my face (I am also not going to send Snaps via Snapchat back and forth, the conversation has to be in real-time). This cuts down significantly on scammers who are using fake profiles and pretending to be the females in the photos to dupe suckers into sending photos of themselves (yes, there are gangs on those sites profiling "Whales". More on that later).
I only discuss monetary "help" and potential meeting dates / times / locations via video chat, and this has always been fool-proof. Until it isn't.
The broad in the text messaging screenshot attached: We video chat and she seems to be at home alone at the time. Works a normal job and we schedule a time to meet around her work schedule.
(Also key: always try to do these meetings during the early daylight hours, as you will see why in a minute).
We agree to meet at a Starbucks in my area (a very nice part of town).
I get there early and pick a spot in the back of the place near the restrooms. Closer to the meeting time for her to arrive, I look towards the front of the store and there are a handful of Latino males and females pacing out front. They caught my attention so quickly because the looked very much out of place there. One of the younger guys is looking into the store from outside and we lock eyes. They eventually come into the store and go to the counter. The males are paired up with the females and it is made to look like they are all on a date. They sit at a long table not too far from where I was positioned.
I then get a text from the girl I am supposed to be meeting and she says "I'm here". I then reply "I'm inside".
She then texts back the following:
"he said he's inside".
"Wrong person".
"Sorry I didn't mean to send that".
I then freeze the fuck up. "Damn, what's my next move?
100% sure at this point that the Latino crew is with the chick I am supposed to meet (she was a latina). I then get on my cell phone and pretend to be talking to someone. The girl I am meeting finally comes in and walks over to me and sits, looking hella embarrassed by the fact that she's given up the game.
"Who were you talking to?" I say. She replies "I didn't mean to send that. " And that's it. Since again I am certain she is with the young Latino crew, something in my mind tells me to remove this chick from the situation. I immediately get up and say "there's too many people in here. LE't go for a walk" and start to head for the door. She follows promptly behind me.
To shorten this story up a bit, we walk on the strip of this Starbucks and I talk to her as if we are still trying to determine when would be good day and time for her to come over and how much she wanted for it. But I knew I was going to block this scamming h03's number as soon as I could get clear of her. Good thing working in my favor was that she nor they had any idea what I drove there in since I arrived super early (and she was late).
We come back from a bit down the sidewalk of the main street and I stop in front of a BBQ joint that is also on the same strip but a but further down. I tell her "cool, I'll hit you up and we can talk more as we get closer to the date of us meeting. " I give her a hug and then tell her "I'm going to get some lunch!" And then I disappear into the BBQ joint.
Now at this point I am still trying to plot my escape. I had no idea if the Latinos where watching from Starbucks or not. From the restaurant I stand inside and look at my phone like I am waiting on a friend to arrive. I see the scammer girl get into her car and leave, and I keep my eyes on the Starbucks from the restaurant. A little bit later I see the young Latino group all leave out of Starbucks and start to head in the direction of the restaurant. They pause about halfway, linger for a bit, and then go back into the Starbucks. At this point I haul ass to my car, jump in, put it in gear, roll quickly out of the parking lot and blow through the red light.
Just in case I was being tailed, I went out of my way to make wild, sudden turns onto new streets, bust you-turns, and take a much longer route back to my place.
Parting advice for newbs:
Never EVER show your face on those SB websites. All of my photos on Seeking Arrangements have my face blurred or blacked out. Some of those SB websites will not let you hide your face; I would not use those sites at all. You are setting yourself up to be robbed once the robbing crews know what "Big Bank Hank" looks like. Remember how escorts used to hide their faces on Backpage or Craigslist? YOU are the prize on the SB sites. You need to do the same.
Also, never EVER agree to meet a female in person unless you video chat via FaceTime or Google Hangouts or Duo FIRST. Obviously it does not save you from scammers 100% of the time as I have demonstrated in the above story, but my experience has been that it filters out a lot of chaff. Any chick that runs away when you tell them to video chat with you first is 100% a scam chick or not the chick in the photos.
If they ask me to send a photo, I tell them video chat only. Do not send a photo of yourself! I would say at least 85% of the younger female profiles who are less than 25 yrs old are probably Pookie's or Paco's trying to see if you are stupid enough to give away as much personal details about yourself as possible in order for them to figure out where you live and what you drive.
And don't be so much of a chump that you would send money to a chick you've never met in person! I have had females on SA tell me that they need to be compensated to talk to me via video chat or for meeting me in person. If a chick tells you she needs to be compensated for meeting you or talking with you via video chat to determine if the two of you could potentially help one another out, tell that h0 e to get lost!
Hope someone out there gets value from this post and use it to avoid getting got.[/QUOTE]Look I am sorry you had a scary experience. But using that one experience to paint all of SA is just wrong. The one good piece of advice in the above is never send money. Any girl who asks for money upfront instant block. The rest of it will assure you a horrible SA experience. You do not need to video chat. You don't need to meet in a Starbucks, unless you want to guarantee you won't be laid that day.
I've done 17 US based SA since June and none have been anything other than nice girls, except for one that I knew was a straight up hooker from our interactions. And her only problem was she was late and lazy. Of course I had screened out any scammers and cash girls. I don't doubt that it CAN happen; but I think the chances are very very low.
I am sure others here who have been using it successfully will agree.
Oh and I do agree with u though that real SA girls are not willing to fuck a fat slob for money. In fact the moment it smells vaguely like sex for money u are done. You have to have at least decent looks and some game if u wanna close the hotties and they wont meet u without a pic. I would never post on SA but will text an unsearchable pic after we are comfy.
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At SavePros321,
In addition to what Steve said, it's possible the gal was texting a friend who was worried about her meeting a stranger. Almost all of my SA dates later told me that they had a friend who had their back during our date (for example, their friend was close by, to make sure she was safe). I kinda did the same. When I went to a gal's place, I took a picture of the address and sent it to a friend, in case I disappeared without checking back in. And my first dates were always in a crowded place on purpose. Anyway, your post is also valuable, as it's a fair warning. We all should be on guard, that's for sure. To any noob to SA, definitely read this entire thread. It won't take longer than 30 minutes to obtain the experience of our collective years on SA.
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2432520]Almost all of my SA dates later told me that they had a friend who had their back during our date (for example, [b]their friend was close by, to make sure she was safe[/b]).[/QUOTE]Oh, you mean Jaquan and his goon squad, LOL?
Guys, all I am asking is for dudes to not be so desperate for female companionship that you bury your head in the sand and toss aside all sensibilities. Remember, when Backpage and Craigslist shut down, pimps didn't all of a sudden decide they no longer need to eat. Seeking Arrangement is very much a Pay for Play website that managed to dodge getting shut down by the Feds. Why would they not take advantage of this and flood the zone with the girls they control?
An added bonus? Men are all posting their net worth on the website for everyone to see. Even more? The John has multiple photos of his silly grinning face posted as well!
Said the Cop to the Robber: "Why did you rob the bank?
Robber: "Because that's where the money is!
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Scams
How often does the person not match their photos? Any other things to worry about?
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[QUOTE=Akibono;2433898]How often does the person not match their photos? Any other things to worry about?[/QUOTE]I was actively on SA for about 18 months. Met almost 100 gals. No one used a fake pic, but almost everyone used their best pic that was often photoshopped, and so prepare to be a little disappointed when you meet them in person.
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Age is Key
While YMMV and you can surely find a gem in most age groups if you look hard enough, the following is conventional wisdom followed by my experience.
Flow of girl to woman -.
Early 20's. Very open. Experimental. Trying new things.
Late twenties. Prepping for marriage. Maybe regret? More careful.
Early thirties. Totally not open for anything. Ready to settle.
Late thirties. May open back up but with possible mommy baggage.
This has been spot on with my experience:
22-24 is the sweet spot. Had more 23 and 24 year olds than all other ages combined.
19-21 is open to the idea but too flaky. Last minute cancellation and flake outs.
Only had 2 over 24 success. All others were fails.
Oh and fail means no SNL (single night lay). My exact results since June are:
Success: 23, 23, 26, 21, 23, 24, 23, 23, 24, 27, 24, 23, 21, 24, 23, 23
Fail: 26, 32, 34
Anyhow hope this helps someone!
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Forties
[QUOTE=Steve9696;2435578]While YMMV and you can surely find a gem in most age groups if you look hard enough, the following is conventional wisdom followed by my experience.
Flow of girl to woman -.
Early 20's. Very open. Experimental. Trying new things.
Late twenties. Prepping for marriage. Maybe regret? More careful.
Early thirties. Totally not open for anything. Ready to settle.
Late thirties. May open back up but with possible mommy baggage.[/QUOTE]You left out one group. That would be the 40+ women. Ready to drop them panties and throw them legs wide open again! Hahaha! Don't know how many 40+ women are on SA. But, I'm just saying in general LOL! Plenty of 40+ women trying to make up for "lost time" and ready to be more sexually liberated.
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Agree on 40+
[QUOTE=TheCane;2435591]You left out one group. That would be the 40+ women. Ready to drop them panties and throw them legs wide open again! Hahaha! Don't know how many 40+ women are on SA. But, I'm just saying in general LOL! Plenty of 40+ women trying to make up for "lost time" and ready to be more sexually liberated.[/QUOTE]They are on SA, and they are the most hassle free. At least 5 of the two dozen gals that I had relations with on SA were in their 40's. They were all fantastic in the sack, 3 of them had great big fake boobs, and they were all also great fun to hang out with because they were closer to my age.
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2435809]They are on SA, and they are the most hassle free. At least 5 of the two dozen gals that I had relations with on SA were in their 40's. They were all fantastic in the sack, 3 of them had great big fake boobs, and they were all also great fun to hang out with because they were closer to my age.[/QUOTE]Been reading up on the public info on SA. I trust the info here. Either they are grossly wrong or they are distorting the numbers. I cannot believe the average SB allowance is 3 K. Plus, the amount ppm is ridiculous. If a SD can afford 3 K / month, that is 36000 a year after taxes. There just aren't that many guys who have that sort of disposable income. And if they did, they would certainly not be trolling on that site. Plus, stories of SB meeting SD who send limos and planes to pick them up are almost laughable. How many Dorian Grey's are out there? Perhaps, that creates an unrealistic expectation from the SBs. I can't imagine a person who is going to hand over 300 just to meet and talk. That does not even include the time and the expensive meals. I'm no cheap Charlie, but if you pay 400-500 per meet, that does not even include a minimum of 100 for a room and maybe another 100 for entertainment. At 700 per meet, that is not particularly good value. I can find some high end escorts in Europe for less with better attitude. I know the SBs say they are not escorts, but their emphasis on money says just the opposite. You can't have it both ways. I suspect there are a lot of desperate SBs out there at this time. Their regulars are not seeing them because they are at home with their wives and not travelling, everything is locked down, and there is no reason to put your health at risk. You have no idea if they have been isolating or seeing others. Simply not worth the risk.
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Unrealistic expectations
It's a YMMV type of situation for sugar babies too. Some of these girls are worth the 3 K + but they prioritize instant gratification, so we do too. Some aren't but hey, they can all be princesses if they believe.
So I also don't believe in the average allowance stated, but there are still girls on another level who are smart enough to be patient and know how to make their way into a man's heart (read as bank account).
[QUOTE=Akibono;2437803]Been reading up on the public info on SA. I trust the info here. Either they are grossly wrong or they are distorting the numbers. I cannot believe the average SB allowance is 3 K. Plus, the amount ppm is ridiculous. If a SD can afford 3 K / month, that is 36000 a year after taxes. There just aren't that many guys who have that sort of disposable income. And if they did, they would certainly not be trolling on that site. Plus, stories of SB meeting SD who send limos and planes to pick them up are almost laughable. How many Dorian Grey's are out there? Perhaps, that creates an unrealistic expectation from the SBs. I can't imagine a person who is going to hand over 300 just to meet and talk. That does not even include the time and the expensive meals. I'm no cheap Charlie, but if you pay 400-500 per meet, that does not even include a minimum of 100 for a room and maybe another 100 for entertainment. At 700 per meet, that is not particularly good value. I can find some high end escorts in Europe for less with better attitude. I know the SBs say they are not escorts, but their emphasis on money says just the opposite. You can't have it both ways. I suspect there are a lot of desperate SBs out there at this time. Their regulars are not seeing them because they are at home with their wives and not travelling, everything is locked down, and there is no reason to put your health at risk. You have no idea if they have been isolating or seeing others. Simply not worth the risk.[/QUOTE]
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Many Thoughts
[QUOTE=Akibono;2437803]Been reading up on the public info on SA. I trust the info here. Either they are grossly wrong or they are distorting the numbers. I cannot believe the average SB allowance is 3 K. Plus, the amount ppm is ridiculous. If a SD can afford 3 K / month, that is 36000 a year after taxes. There just aren't that many guys who have that sort of disposable income. And if they did, they would certainly not be trolling on that site. Plus, stories of SB meeting SD who send limos and planes to pick them up are almost laughable. How many Dorian Grey's are out there? Perhaps, that creates an unrealistic expectation from the SBs. I can't imagine a person who is going to hand over 300 just to meet and talk. That does not even include the time and the expensive meals. I'm no cheap Charlie, but if you pay 400-500 per meet, that does not even include a minimum of 100 for a room and maybe another 100 for entertainment. At 700 per meet, that is not particularly good value. I can find some high end escorts in Europe for less with better attitude. I know the SBs say they are not escorts, but their emphasis on money says just the opposite. You can't have it both ways. I suspect there are a lot of desperate SBs out there at this time. Their regulars are not seeing them because they are at home with their wives and not travelling, everything is locked down, and there is no reason to put your health at risk. You have no idea if they have been isolating or seeing others. Simply not worth the risk.[/QUOTE]There are quite a few thoughts in this post. First surely it is a questionable idea to visit ANYONE right now. But if doing so a true SB who is low volume would be your best bet.
You can't compare value in the US to elsewhere. Value in the US is HORRIBLE. Worst in the world in my experience. I can have a better looking high performing girl in Brazil for 1/4 (or less) US prices.
BUT if you are confined to the US then SA is your best bet. You will get a longer date with a prettier girl than for the same price to a hooker. $400 is pretty standard, tho in the South I have 3 girls I can see for $300. I was able to push the later ones down once I had the first at $300.
Yes the private jet and $3000/ mo is surely rare. But does happen. A friend knows a stripper in Detroit who scored a daddy who flew her everywhere. And Melty who was a great $200 girl in London is currently touring the world clearly as an SB. So some girls do score it but it's rare.
On the $300 for platonic yeah it seems a stretch but I know a girl who's been doing dinners and getting gifts all with no sex. This won't last I don't think. She also walks on a guy for $200. He drives 4 hours to see her. LOL. No sex. So some "odd" arrangements do exist. Tho clearly the exception.
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[QUOTE=Steve9696;2437972]There are quite a few thoughts in this post. First surely it is a questionable idea to visit ANYONE right now. But if doing so a true SB who is low volume would be your best bet.
You can't compare value in the US to elsewhere. Value in the US is HORRIBLE. Worst in the world in my experience. I can have a better looking high performing girl in Brazil for 1/4 (or less) US prices.
BUT if you are confined to the US then SA is your best bet. You will get a longer date with a prettier girl than for the same price to a hooker. $400 is pretty standard, tho in the South I have 3 girls I can see for $300. I was able to push the later ones down once I had the first at $300.
Yes the private jet and $3000/ mo is surely rare. But does happen. A friend knows a stripper in Detroit who scored a daddy who flew her everywhere. And Melty who was a great $200 girl in London is currently touring the world clearly as an SB. So some girls do score it but it's rare..[/QUOTE]I gave Been using SA with mixed results. The rates quoted ares correct.
1. Austin / Houston $400-500.
2. San Antonio prices are more reasonable $300-350, now that I am Austin full time San Antonio is only 1:15 drive so I have been started meeting more girls. You would think Austin would be better, but I have had much better luck in San Antonio and the girls usually better looking, makes no sense, but true. I hate Houston so I just go there for work and do not mess with those girls anymore.
I was shocked, but there are multiple guys that pay the $300-500 for PPM and there is no sex involved, not for me. Many girls have confirmed this, but those arrangements just last for a few months, from what they say. Crazy!
There are a lot of girls getting more then $3000, I would say $3000 would be minimum for anything decent. I would pay note, but there would have to be zero drama involved and most of these girls are just not capable of this.
With all this downtime from the Flu I have had a lot of time to reflect on SA. I would say more good then bad, but there is a lot of BS and Scams, but when you find a good arrangement it can be real fun. Also, I have had an issue with a lot of girls being alcoholics or use drugs heavily. This cause a way too much drama. I will probably take a small hit on my income, from the economic downturn, but I will no longer pay more then $400 and probably will be closer to $300. My main issue is I just do not have to travel to Europe, so that is kind of not practical, I just miss too much work. So I will probably use SA to fill in the gaps and stick with Tijuana and MTY.
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My 2 cents
My 2 cents based on recent posts. Yes, prices on SA are high, but you're paying for a real part time GF, not a pro that offers GFE. A lot of SBs will actually be exclusive with you. If you're not into that, then SA is not for you. SD means you're someone who either has money or is willing to splurge, otherwise we are as guilty as the scammer SBs on SA. And I did once give someone 3 k per month. She was worth it for a variety of reasons, and one reason was that she lived alone and so we stayed at her place a lot, which saved me a lot of money. I'm not rich, but NSA boinking a hottie on a regular basis is important to me, so I was willing to give her a huge portion of my disposable income. One way that I can justify it is that I know arrangements don't last too long. Eventually, she broke our arrangement because a surgeon offered her 5 k per month. Finally, many of these gals just want to enjoy the finer things in life, like trips, wining and dining, etc. , and I ended up giving no cash to about half of the SBs that I had relationships with. That said, these "freebie" gals are very hard to find, and eventually they bring drama. Anyway, all of this searching on SA takes a LOT of time, It's almost like a full time job, so I eventually quit. In the states, I now just use rubmaps. Good intel on there for most locations. Is rubmaps still operating or did it get shut down? I haven't been to the states in a couple of years.
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[QUOTE=ColinBakerKing;2411561]There are no fake profiles on the site, they have a fairly large team that weeds them out. Every new member request is checked manually by a person[/QUOTE]Thank you for posting. Do they do any verification on the man. Location / salary / age / photo / Facebook / Linkedin?
I might be tempted to use a lookalike photo, incorrect date of birth, incorrect location so wouldn't want them to check these things.
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[QUOTE=LeyenLouvain;2438861]Thank you for posting. Do they do any verification on the man. Location / salary / age / photo / Facebook / Linkedin?
I might be tempted to use a lookalike photo, incorrect date of birth, incorrect location so wouldn't want them to check these things.[/QUOTE]They say, that the screen, but many fake profiles, so always assume worst.
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[QUOTE=LeyenLouvain;2438861]Thank you for posting. Do they do any verification on the man. Location / salary / age / photo / Facebook / Linkedin?
I might be tempted to use a lookalike photo, incorrect date of birth, incorrect location so wouldn't want them to check these things.[/QUOTE]I think almost everyone uses incorrect date of birth and slightly incorrect location. Most girls over 30 will shave some years off their age. Most guys over mid-40's will also shave some years off their age too. From my experience, almost everyone lies about location and uses a nearby location. Most guys also lie about their wealth. Most guys also exaggerate their height. Many girls lie about their body shape. Some gals lie about their education. Almost every gal will use either a photoshopped pic, or a pic that is from some years ago. This is why you need to do a meet and greet. Hoping for instant gratification is not what this site is supposed to be about (but you can get lucky of course). Finally, as for posting a fake pic, well, that one is a toughie. I don't think guys need to post any pic because we are the ones paying them, not other way around. If the girl won't agree to meet you without seeing your pic, just move on to the next gal. Using a fake pic may be rejected by the SA admins anyway, especially if you use a pic from the internet.
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2439007]I think almost everyone uses incorrect date of birth and slightly incorrect location. Most girls over 30 will shave some years off their age. Most guys over mid-40's will also shave some years off their age too. From my experience, almost everyone lies about location and uses a nearby location. Most guys also lie about their wealth. Most guys also exaggerate their height. Many girls lie about their body shape. Some gals lie about their education. Almost every gal will use either a photoshopped pic, or a pic that is from some years ago. This is why you need to do a meet and greet. Hoping for instant gratification is not what this site is supposed to be about (but you can get lucky of course). Finally, as for posting a fake pic, well, that one is a toughie. I don't think guys need to post any pic because we are the ones paying them, not other way around. If the girl won't agree to meet you without seeing your pic, just move on to the next gal. Using a fake pic may be rejected by the SA admins anyway, especially if you use a pic from the internet.[/QUOTE]In my experience, you are quite correct.
We all tweak information and pictures a bit, in the direction needed.
I use to move the discussion to Whatsapp or similar ASAP and after that, I use to send the girl a picture I shoot, holding a hand written note saying for example "Hi Cindy! Where "Cindy" is her name (of course) and asking her to do the same.
I happened only once that the girl refused to do that.
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2439007]I think almost everyone uses incorrect date of birth and slightly incorrect location. Most girls over 30 will shave some years off their age. Most guys over mid-40's will also shave some years off their age too. From my experience, almost everyone lies about location and uses a nearby location. Most guys also lie about their wealth. Most guys also exaggerate their height. Many girls lie about their body shape. Some gals lie about their education. Almost every gal will use either a photoshopped pic, or a pic that is from some years ago. This is why you need to do a meet and greet. Hoping for instant gratification is not what this site is supposed to be about (but you can get lucky of course). Finally, as for posting a fake pic, well, that one is a toughie. I don't think guys need to post any pic because we are the ones paying them, not other way around. If the girl won't agree to meet you without seeing your pic, just move on to the next gal. Using a fake pic may be rejected by the SA admins anyway, especially if you use a pic from the internet.[/QUOTE]Good post. If you want to give a general idea of what you look like, you can always just blur or blackout your face using apps like Blur Photo (iPhone). As I mentioned before, it's like how escorts used to hide their faces on an escort site; they have the goods that you want. On SB websites, it is the man that has the goods (money) that the women want (especially now since a lot of them are or will be out of work due to all that is going on). You as the man have the upper hand in this situation. Use it to your advantage.
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[QUOTE=BlueSwede;2439088]In my experience, you are quite correct.
We all tweak information and pictures a bit, in the direction needed.
I use to move the discussion to Whatsapp or similar ASAP and after that, I use to send the girl a picture I shoot, holding a hand written note saying for example "Hi Cindy! Where "Cindy" is her name (of course) and asking her to do the same.
I happened only once that the girl refused to do that.[/QUOTE]I always tell them that in order to see what I look like they will have to video chat with me either via FaceTime or something like Google Duo (does Whatsapp have video chat?
Don't fall for exchanging photos via text. She could just send you a fake photo, and if you sent a real photo of you then you look like a chump. Video chat is the best verification tool we've been blessed with in this lifetime.
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Caution
[QUOTE=BlueSwede;2439088]In my experience, you are quite correct.
We all tweak information and pictures a bit, in the direction needed.
I use to move the discussion to Whatsapp or similar ASAP and after that, I use to send the girl a picture I shoot, holding a hand written note saying for example "Hi Cindy! Where "Cindy" is her name (of course) and asking her to do the same.
I happened only once that the girl refused to do that.[/QUOTE]Clearly this helps establish they are legit. But for those that need to be discreet, having a picture of you holding a girls name floating around is discretion suicide. So I would be cautious with this method.
I personally have had no problem with a girl not matching her pics in my 20 ish dates to date. But I should say the girls I meet with are very "real" and would never meet up without the guy sending as pic. In fact I can usually tell an escort because she doesn't ask for pics as early as a fresh girl would. But clearly no pic works for midwestern so YMMV. And of course I'm trying to get 23 year olds and they have a ton of options.
My pic advice is use a public facing pic from like Facebook or somewhere, but TAKE A PICTURE of it and send that. That way if there is ever a leak you have plausible deniability because it's public and yet untraceable because you took a snap of it and it's a whole different set of pixels than what Facebook and Google image indexer has.
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Steve's advice about pics is a very good one. But definitely only show your pic when it is requested. Don't just display it for anyone to see. I also had a pic on my bio, but only showed it when I was sure the person was not someone that I knew from work or from my circle of friends. It would be embarrassing if my coworker or my friend's daughter saw my pic on that site. I realize that you can look at their pics to make sure they are someone you don't know, but you should ask additional questions to make sure you don't run in the same circles. I had one date that actually used to work for the same company that I worked for, and so we did know many people in common. That said, one thing to keep in mind is that eventually, any regular SB will find out your true identity somehow. This was another reason why I eventually quit the site.
[QUOTE=Steve9696;2439155]Clearly this helps establish they are legit. But for those that need to be discreet, having a picture of you holding a girls name floating around is discretion suicide. So I would be cautious with this method.
I personally have had no problem with a girl not matching her pics in my 20 ish dates to date. But I should say the girls I meet with are very "real" and would never meet up without the guy sending as pic. In fact I can usually tell an escort because she doesn't ask for pics as early as a fresh girl would. But clearly no pic works for midwestern so YMMV. And of course I'm trying to get 23 year olds and they have a ton of options.
My pic advice is use a public facing pic from like Facebook or somewhere, but TAKE A PICTURE of it and send that. That way if there is ever a leak you have plausible deniability because it's public and yet untraceable because you took a snap of it and it's a whole different set of pixels than what Facebook and Google image indexer has.[/QUOTE].
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[QUOTE=Akibono;2430764]Finally going on my first date. I find the process quite awkward since I am new to this. My main concern is not being stuck with a skanky ho or being robbed. In the states, you have to worry more about scams. We agreed to meet at a place for a bite or drink and then go up to the hotel. How is payment typically handled? I presume you pay at the beginning, but I am a bit concerned that the gal will grab the money and run and I will have to face her pimp. But I also understand that the girl does not want to be stiffed too. I never have problems with escorts because they know the drill. I am going to put the money out and she can take it when she leaves. I think that is a good compromise. What do you think are some risks I am not aware of? I am single so I am not worried about them knowing my name, but I am a bit concerned about my car since plates can easily be traced. Don't want strangers showing up at my place. Not cool.[/QUOTE]Sorry, was not checking this thread as there is not a whole lot of traffic. I usually spend most of my time in the German FKK threads. But I am not sure I agree with your implication about pimp. I don't think I had any arrangement with a prostitute. I tend to meet them at least once or even multiple times for lunches or drinks / coffee etc. I think you will get to know what type of girl she is, and whether she is a prostitute. Yes, they have sex for money but prostitute is not what I would call them in that they are not ready to have sex with multiple partners they do not get attracted to, just for the money.
Anyway, except once or twice, I have never given money to the girl before sex. When I did give the money upfront, it was on the road in a different city from my home town, and I was turned off and never saw her again. Most do not have any problem, and almost none of them count the money either. There is an implicit trust. By the same token, I do not ask for a detailed list of sex acts she will be OK with or not OK with. This is not going to the room with a FKK girl, and asking if she will kiss, or provide BBBJ in the 50 E price. I don't even think I asked them if they are OK with sex. When we meet and talk, and she asks what I am looking for, I will say I am hoping to get to know her more and perhaps we can spend some quiet time in the next meet and I suggest we can meet for a second lunch and go to a hotel. She will understand what I have in mind.
Also, is it so easy to trace you with your plates? I thought only Law enforcement had access to that info.
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[QUOTE=Akibono;2433898]How often does the person not match their photos? Any other things to worry about?[/QUOTE]Photos match. Some look worse than their photos, but a whole bunch of girls also look much better than their photos. These are not professional girls and don't have carefully photoshopped pics. One of my girls had really GND pics on the site and she was much better in person. I told her as we were leaving the room that she looks much better than her photos and she texted me later that night I made her week with my compliment. She is a pretty simple girl, not a lot of pretense. On our next meet, I took a photo of her with my iPhone and texted her saying if she continued to be on the site, she should use it. Once I had a Ukrainian girl who was in my city for a few months of exchange school. She was absolutely stunning in person but her photos were just blah.
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[QUOTE=TheCane;2435591]You left out one group. That would be the 40+ women. Ready to drop them panties and throw them legs wide open again! Hahaha! Don't know how many 40+ women are on SA. But, I'm just saying in general LOL! Plenty of 40+ women trying to make up for "lost time" and ready to be more sexually liberated.[/QUOTE]Yeah, there are quite a few. I tend to do my searches with specific age, body type, ethnicity and other attributes but if I relaxed the criteria, the number of seeking women tends to increase more than ten fold. Normally, I have on any given night, roughly 120 to 180 women with strict criteria online at the moment I am (less than 25, slim / curvy, white or Latino, etc). This is in my home town.
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I have been SA for a number of years. I disagree with the pricing info presented. First, I am patient. I indicate my interest to hundreds of girls, especially because I am seeking white or Latino girls in the 20-25 group that are slim and reasonably pretty faces. I tend to chat for sometime to get to know them. I'm sure some are lying and BS'ing but it is easy to get a sense of if they are total liars. A girl can't tell me she is studying Finance or Chemistry or Political Science at the local university in town and for me not to sniff out if she is a prostitute instead who never finished high school. I am not one of those who interrogate FKK girls when they say they are Spanish or Italian whether they are actually that, or Romies as they most likely are. But truth matters somewhat on SA. Anyway, between chatting on the site, texting later on phone, and meeting for a lunch, I get a good sense of the girl. I happen to be in a reasonably inexpensive city. Still large enough. The range is always 200 to 300. The only times I went above 300 was when I traveled outside my city, especially in the expensive ones like Boston. I gave the stunning Ukrainian girl 250 for example, and I spent nearly 6 hours each time we met. A couple of hours of sex, and the rest in restaurants, drinks etc. She was 22 and absolutely one of the most wonderful lovers I have ever had, true GFE. Unfortunately, she went back to her home after a few weeks but those were special weeks for me. Yes, many girls do ask for more but I politely decline. Some come back with a better offer, some may walk away. That's alright. The key to SA is to be patient. I cannot overemphasize that. You have all the time in the world. And there are plenty of girls. No single girl is a must do girl. Be polite, be firm, be prepared to walk away. With some girls I spent multiple platonic dates and felt really nice about them, and then prices did not match and I had to walk away. In those situations it can feel terrible because you feel like you made a connection. But I say, be firm and walk away. Stay with your pricing discipline.
I have never given any cash for a platonic date like first time meet and greet coffee. This is again one of those things I am very firm on.
The thing is that in your first few months, this can be frustrating. You may have a sense of urgency, that you did not close enough deals so to speak. Don't rush. You will live for a long time (god and corona willing). After you have been on SA for multiple years, you will accumulate a large number of contacts and things become easier.
Right now, things are horrible in the US. In the last few weeks, millions are losing jobs. Sugar babes are in absolute panic. I am being very cautious and not looking to meet, as I am not that young anymore and could be risky. Some sugar babes are also scared a bit to meet. But the quantity and quality of sugar babes seeking has exploded up. Even if I was not reading newspapers, I feel like I could have read the economic state of union in the country by looking at the sugar babe site LOL.
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2439854]Steve's advice about pics is a very good one. But definitely only show your pic when it is requested. Don't just display it for anyone to see. I also had a pic on my bio, but only showed it when I was sure the person was not someone that I knew from work or from my circle of friends. It would be embarrassing if my coworker or my friend's daughter saw my pic on that site. I realize that you can look at their pics to make sure they are someone you don't know, but you should ask additional questions to make sure you don't run in the same circles. I had one date that actually used to work for the same company that I worked for, and so we did know many people in common. That said, one thing to keep in mind is that eventually, any regular SB will find out your true identity somehow. This was another reason why I eventually quit the site..[/QUOTE]Hi.
I'm curious about your sentence that any SB will eventually find your true identity. Why do you feel that way and did that happen to you. You didn't say *a few SBs may* find your identity, you said *any regular SB will*.
Did this happen to you in your own arrangements?
I had several dozens of arrangements over a few years, some lasting just a few meets and some lasted many months but don't believe that my identity was ever compromised. I do have a lot to lose as I am married and it can be expensive and painful in many ways for my identity to come out but touch wood that hasn't happened yet.
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SBs can find your identity if they want to and try hard.
Yes, several SBs eventually discovered my true identity. Here's how. (1) Sometimes, when I was drunk, I would use my real name accidentally, especially when I was telling a story that happened to me. I think most people don't realize how often they refer to themselves in the third person. (2) One time, on the TV of the hotel, it had my name on it, something like, "Welcome Midwestern. We hope you enjoy your stay. " (3) The bartender or waitress, when returning my credit card, would say, "Thank you Mr. Midwestern. Hope you have a nice rest of the evening. Please come again. " Jeezus, this happened a lot.
(4) You may run into someone that knows you. That happened once. (5) One time, when I opened a new social app on my phone, it was flooded with possible contacts. Apparently, one of my SBs also got a message saying that "Your contact Midwestern has joined blah blah blah. Would you like to connect to him?" I have no idea how that happened, but I guess apps can speak to each other. I was using a different app to communicate with her. (6) Eventually, you reveal too much about yourself, so a clever gal can start putting pieces together and do an internet search. I know this is true because several of my SBs viewed my LinkedIn profile. I asked one of them about it, and she said that it was easy to figure out who I was.
[QUOTE=Pessimist;2439878]Hi.
I'm curious about your sentence that any SB will eventually find your true identity. Why do you feel that way and did that happen to you. You didn't say *a few SBs may* find your identity, you said *any regular SB will*.
Did this happen to you in your own arrangements?
I had several dozens of arrangements over a few years, some lasting just a few meets and some lasted many months but don't believe that my identity was ever compromised. I do have a lot to lose as I am married and it can be expensive and painful in many ways for my identity to come out but touch wood that hasn't happened yet.[/QUOTE].
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2440431]Yes, several SBs eventually discovered my true identity. Here's how. (1) Sometimes, when I was drunk, I would use my real name accidentally, especially when I was telling a story that happened to me. I think most people don't realize how often they refer to themselves in the third person. (2) One time, on the TV of the hotel, it had my name on it, something like, "Welcome Midwestern. We hope you enjoy your stay. " (3) The bartender or waitress, when returning my credit card, would say, "Thank you Mr. Midwestern. Hope you have a nice rest of the evening. Please come again. " Jeezus, this happened a lot.
(4) You may run into someone that knows you. That happened once. (5) One time, when I opened a new social app on my phone, it was flooded with possible contacts. Apparently, one of my SBs also got a message saying that "Your contact Midwestern has joined blah blah blah. Would you like to connect to him?" I have no idea how that happened, but I guess apps can speak to each other. I was using a different app to communicate with her. (6) Eventually, you reveal too much about yourself, so a clever gal can start putting pieces together and do an internet search. I know this is true because several of my SBs viewed my LinkedIn profile. I asked one of them about it, and she said that it was easy to figure out who I was..[/QUOTE]That's unfortunate. I have been quite careful to hide my identity so far. Not sure if any one figured me out but if they did, they have not told me yet. Recently, I met this girl for a pre arrangement get to know lunch. As I signed the check and was leaving, she claimed she wanted to sit there for a few more minutes and look at her messages and I should leave. I was not happy because I had signed the credit card bill and had my name on it and she could easily figure me out. I walked up to the waitress a few tables from me and asked her to take away my signed check right away and as soon as I got into my car, I blocked that girl on both my phone and SA. Bye bye, don't need any such risks.
Some girls have voluntarily disclosed their real identities. I met a few sugar babes in their own homes and fucked on their own beds. But I made it clear they can expect no such reciprocity from me.
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Definite Watchouts — Snapchat Insta and Facebook Especially
[QUOTE=Midwestern;2440431]Yes, several SBs eventually discovered my true identity. Here's how. (1) Sometimes, when I was drunk, I would use my real name accidentally, especially when I was telling a story that happened to me. I think most people don't realize how often they refer to themselves in the third person. (2) One time, on the TV of the hotel, it had my name on it, something like, "Welcome Midwestern. We hope you enjoy your stay. " (3) The bartender or waitress, when returning my credit card, would say, "Thank you Mr. Midwestern. Hope you have a nice rest of the evening. Please come again. " Jeezus, this happened a lot.
(4) You may run into someone that knows you. That happened once. (5) One time, when I opened a new social app on my phone, it was flooded with possible contacts. Apparently, one of my SBs also got a message saying that "Your contact Midwestern has joined blah blah blah. Would you like to connect to him?" I have no idea how that happened, but I guess apps can speak to each other. I was using a different app to communicate with her. (6) Eventually, you reveal too much about yourself, so a clever gal can start putting pieces together and do an internet search. I know this is true because several of my SBs viewed my LinkedIn profile. I asked one of them about it, and she said that it was easy to figure out who I was.
.[/QUOTE]These are all real risks. The social accounts one is deadly if you ever use your real phone with them (never do of course). I only discovered this recently. Those apps look through your contacts and suggest friends based on that. I was surprised to learn 5+ girls real names when I installed Facebook on my burner phone recently. Plus two via instagram and one via Snapchat.
Obviously I have no interest and don't even tell them since they will need to disown you at that point.
I do have my first SB inviting me to her place which is nice. I don't see how they risk it but I guess you take a lot of life risks at 23. We're all lucky to be alive I'd wager.
Oh and here is an easy mistake to make! I was curious to check out one girl who clearly was a white color professional not my usual hairdresser. So I looked at her linked in. Damn. Only realized after I did it I probably just outed myself, cuz she’ll see I looked at her profile. Damn. Got to be more careful.
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[QUOTE=Steve9696;2440600]These are all real risks. The social accounts one is deadly if you ever use your real phone with them (never do of course). I only discovered this recently. Those apps look through your contacts and suggest friends based on that. I was surprised to learn 5+ girls real names when I installed Facebook on my burner phone recently. Plus two via instagram and one via Snapchat.
Obviously I have no interest and don't even tell them since they will need to disown you at that point.
I do have my first SB inviting me to her place which is nice. I don't see how they risk it but I guess you take a lot of life risks at 23. We're all lucky to be alive I'd wager.
Oh and here is an easy mistake to make! I was curious to check out one girl who clearly was a white color professional not my usual hairdresser. So I looked at her linked in. Damn. Only realized after I did it I probably just outed myself, cuz shell see I looked at her profile. Damn. Got to be more careful.[/QUOTE]There is a lot of ways she can find your name if you are not careful. Put the name, geographical location, and approx age, and you are easily unmasked. Even more so if you own property. A few dollars on any of the search agencies will uncover lots about you. I found out a sb's real name by a money transfer app. With that fact and approx. Location, I actually found out her address without her knowing.
Anyone can request a DMV record by a license plate. This is how you find hit and run drivers. The DMV will give out the information and will notify you who requested the info, but that person could just be her boyfriend. If you want to remain anon, you have to be very prepared, and it will cost you. Hiding behind a Corp. Is effective.
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Agree that it is easy for the gal to know your real identity
As I outlined in my previous post, yes, I totally agree with you that it is easy for the gal to know your real identity. It is almost impossible to hide it if you are going to spend quality time (e. G. , dinners, drinks, site-seeing, shows, etc.) with any SB. If you are just meeting for naughty fun only, then maybe it's possible. To me, it was just unbelievable how many of them viewed my LinkedIn profile, which meant that eventually they figured out my real name. As I sit here typing, I am counting the number of SBs that I know 100% for sure eventually figured out my real identity and it's 9 out of 23. And 2 of them gave me big drama later unfortunately. Maybe the only ones that didn't know my real identity were the real losers, like the uneducated drug addicts. As for the SBs, almost all of them didn't care if I knew who they really were. Most of them just told me their real name, which I was able to confirm later using an internet search. I think for them, because they are not pros, they need to feel some emotional connection with whoever they are boffing, which is why they didn't mind letting me know their real identity.
[QUOTE=Akibono;2440682]There is a lot of ways she can find your name if you are not careful. Put the name, geographical location, and approx age, and you are easily unmasked. Even more so if you own property. A few dollars on any of the search agencies will uncover lots about you. I found out a sb's real name by a money transfer app. With that fact and approx. Location, I actually found out her address without her knowing.
Anyone can request a DMV record by a license plate. This is how you find hit and run drivers. The DMV will give out the information and will notify you who requested the info, but that person could just be her boyfriend. If you want to remain anon, you have to be very prepared, and it will cost you. Hiding behind a Corp. Is effective.[/QUOTE].
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I always give cash, don't use any money transfer apps. I don't know how many tracked me down with my car plates but if they did, none of them followed me later on nor gave me any drama, didn't notice any peeping Toms into my LinkedIn. Perhaps I have just been lucky or careful or both. But this is over several dozens of meets over the years, so it is not just a coincidence. In general, almost all of my arrangements have been pleasant experiences. Yes, a few were mildly annoying, some stood me up, some played hard to get etc but that is to be expected. Some told me they do weed, and 420 friendly is fairly commonly listed in their bios but I don't think I have been with too obviously drugged up zombies. On the whole, my experiences have been quite positive and I'm not a shill for the site or anything. If you are not comfortable, or too concerned about having your identity blown, yes stick to FKKs or some other sex tourist spots. Only you would know how much risk is acceptable to you.
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Agree that SA can be worth it
[QUOTE=Pessimist;2440953]I always give cash, don't use any money transfer apps. I don't know how many tracked me down with my car plates but if they did, none of them followed me later on nor gave me any drama, didn't notice any peeping Toms into my LinkedIn. Perhaps I have just been lucky or careful or both. But this is over several dozens of meets over the years, so it is not just a coincidence. In general, almost all of my arrangements have been pleasant experiences. Yes, a few were mildly annoying, some stood me up, some played hard to get etc but that is to be expected. Some told me they do weed, and 420 friendly is fairly commonly listed in their bios but I don't think I have been with too obviously drugged up zombies. On the whole, my experiences have been quite positive and I'm not a shill for the site or anything. If you are not comfortable, or too concerned about having your identity blown, yes stick to FKKs or some other sex tourist spots. Only you would know how much risk is acceptable to you.[/QUOTE]I agree. I had great times with some SBs, and many of them were way hot and outside of my league normally. But I eventually quit the site because it was taking up a lot of my time, as it was almost like a full time job searching for SBs. I eventually decided that for me a quick romp in an AMP was the best way to go while in the states. But that said, I haven't been to the states in a couple of years, so I no longer what the best options are for the states anymore.
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Sugaring
I've been following this discussion and I thank you all for sharing valuable info. I'm fairly new to it all, and I've had a couple of casual arrangements. I'm just curious, from what you've observed, what are the chances of finding a truly exclusive sugar arrangement? Or is that type of thing all in the past now?
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[QUOTE=PrickPriority;2442222]I've been following this discussion and I thank you all for sharing valuable info. I'm fairly new to it all, and I've had a couple of casual arrangements. I'm just curious, from what you've observed, what are the chances of finding a truly exclusive sugar arrangement? Or is that type of thing all in the past now?[/QUOTE]I have never asked for nor sought exclusivity. But in my view, many girls did not have more than one arrangement at a given time anyway. Many have their normal life and were supplementing their normal income with a little extra from being a sugar babe. If you want a girl to be exclusive to you, you should definitely ask. If the girl is willing to have sex with you, she will seriously consider your request. She may use your request to extract a bit more money from you but I don't think she would dump you just because you asked for exclusivity. In fact many girls even say in their profiles that they want monogamous arrangements.
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From my experience, most of them want exclusivity
[QUOTE=PrickPriority;2442222]I've been following this discussion and I thank you all for sharing valuable info. I'm fairly new to it all, and I've had a couple of casual arrangements. I'm just curious, from what you've observed, what are the chances of finding a truly exclusive sugar arrangement? Or is that type of thing all in the past now?[/QUOTE]I met a few that were treating dates as possible one-offs and so I treated those dates the same way. But for most of the gals, they wanted only one SD. Of course, if you only see them a couple of times a month, then they'll look for another SD, just like any normal GF would look for a new BF if she feels unwanted.
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What a difference 6 weeks make?
The number of really pretty girls that are saying "lost my job due to quarantine, will do anything for some financial help" has gone up exponentially, almost as fast as the virus infections did. LOL.
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Seeking
I have been using that site for about 3 years now mostly in philly erea tons of college girls on there and they are legit I went ti their dorms LOL the average price I'm getting is 300 but I do get 200 ones for a really cute 19 to 23 yr old college cutie when I hit 24 to 39 year olds they push for 400 up they been in the game and know what's up I have gotten free ones on there from lonely girls who want a semi decent boyfriend also. NYC erea start at 400 up for a girl that's a 7 up I have gotten models at that price had one from England was here for photo shoots Saw all the work and took her to the photo shoot also.
I travel the world to monger but in the USA SA is hands down the best.
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How much are the girls in Berlin and the rest of Germany usually asking for a date on seeking arrangement? Obviously now is not a good time to date for health reasons but how much Were the girls asking for before the Corona crisis?
In Berlin, Barcelona, and London it's already possible For locals to get a date Not using seeking arrangement for a few hours for 150-200 euros. And in Montral It cost pretty much the same 300 Canadian dollars Which Equals approximately US Dollars $214. Some girls on Seeking arrangement may actually be a little bit more expensive But some girls have lower prices too .
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[QUOTE=RomeoJoe;2444165]I have been using that site for about 3 years now mostly in philly erea tons of college girls on there and they are legit I went ti their dorms LOL the average price I'm getting is 300 but I do get 200 ones for a really cute 19 to 23 yr old college cutie when I hit 24 to 39 year olds they push for 400 up they been in the game and know what's up I have gotten free ones on there from lonely girls who want a semi decent boyfriend also. NYC erea start at 400 up for a girl that's a 7 up I have gotten models at that price had one from England was here for photo shoots Saw all the work and took her to the photo shoot also.
I travel the world to monger but in the USA SA is hands down the best.[/QUOTE]I am thinking about getting back on in Austin and San Antonio. I will only pay $300, moving forward, but I will wait for restaurants to open up. I am not worried about the Virus. I prefer the first meeting to be in public for obvious reasons.
I am having a lot of success in MYY, meeting some great girls.
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[QUOTE=Frank11;2444328]How much are the girls in Berlin and the rest of Germany usually asking for a date on seeking arrangement? Obviously now is not a good time to date for health reasons but how much Were the girls asking for before the Corona crisis?
In Berlin, Barcelona, and London it's already possible For locals to get a date Not using seeking arrangement for a few hours for 150-200 euros. And in Montral It cost pretty much the same 300 Canadian dollars Which Equals approximately US Dollars $214. Some girls on Seeking arrangement may actually be a little bit more expensive But some girls have lower prices too.[/QUOTE]Prices in London were pretty high. It being an expensive city, even just OK looking girls gave high quotes. I ended up not taking any meets.
In Germany and Spain, I was able to obtain meets for 200 Euros or a bit less. In itself that is not too cheap, as local fuck houses and bordellos are able to provide sessions at that price or even less. But the sugar babe sessions were longer, in my own hotel room, and included unlimited DFK, ball licking and other such things and I was happy with the quality. Another thing I enjoy in own hotel room is a nice fresh shower together. A few girls let me do AO fuck in shower which is also a huge positive.
Prices may be a bit less now given the tough economic conditions. I can easily imagine that many girls are desperate for money. If you didnot see a big dent in personal fortune due to stock markets dip, your money will go much farther these days than even 3 months ago.
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Ao?
At pessimist. I have seen this expression AO fuck, but I never 100% know what it meant. Adults only? Anal only?
[QUOTE=Pessimist;2444618]Prices in London were pretty high. It being an expensive city, even just OK looking girls gave high quotes. I ended up not taking any meets.
In Germany and Spain, I was able to obtain meets for 200 Euros or a bit less. In itself that is not too cheap, as local fuck houses and bordellos are able to provide sessions at that price or even less. But the sugar babe sessions were longer, in my own hotel room, and included unlimited DFK, ball licking and other such things and I was happy with the quality. Another thing I enjoy in own hotel room is a nice fresh shower together. A few girls let me do AO fuck in shower which is also a huge positive.
Prices may be a bit less now given the tough economic conditions. I can easily imagine that many girls are desperate for money. If you didnot see a big dent in personal fortune due to stock markets dip, your money will go much farther these days than even 3 months ago.[/QUOTE].
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Ao = Bareback
[QUOTE=Midwestern;2444694]At pessimist. I have seen this expression AO fuck, but I never 100% know what it meant. Adults only? Anal only?
.[/QUOTE]It's a German phrase. It means bareback fucking. Short for two German words that start with A and O but they escape me as I don't speak German.
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2444694]At pessimist. I have seen this expression AO fuck, but I never 100% know what it meant. Adults only? Anal only?.[/QUOTE]Sorry, it is an expression I picked up on German FKK. It means sex without condom. I would never take such a chance with a prostitute but have done with a few sugar babes.
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Forgot to say, AO. Alles ohne, IE all without.
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[QUOTE=Steve9696;2444739]It's a German phrase. It means bareback fucking. Short for two German words that start with A and O but they escape me as I don't speak German.[/QUOTE]Alles ohn: everything without.
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Ao
Steve and Jimmy Boy, thanks for the enlightenment. Speaking of AO, that's another benefit of SA, IMHO. Since these gals are not pros, the risks associated with AO are less, especially if you and your SB are exclusive, which is what I often aim for. Incidentally, I have discovered that more gals are willing to do AO after these lockdowns. Well, that's been true in Shanghai, where things are almost back to normal. Some MP gals are even willing to do AO at their shops, because they are desperate for money. I am torn about this, of course. I know that no pussy is worth the risk, but I just love the feeling of AO and it's hard to go back to covered if one has been doing AO on occasion.
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[QUOTE=Pessimist;2444741]Sorry, it is an expression I picked up on German FKK. It means sex without condom. I would never take such a chance with a prostitute but have done with a few sugar babes.[/QUOTE]Yeah, this is another appealing aspect of SA. Being able to bareback. These days, I have almost no interest in CFS.
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Exclusives
[QUOTE=Pessimist;2442411]I have never asked for nor sought exclusivity. But in my view, many girls did not have more than one arrangement at a given time anyway. Many have their normal life and were supplementing their normal income with a little extra from being a sugar babe. If you want a girl to be exclusive to you, you should definitely ask. If the girl is willing to have sex with you, she will seriously consider your request. She may use your request to extract a bit more money from you but I don't think she would dump you just because you asked for exclusivity. In fact many girls even say in their profiles that they want monogamous arrangements.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=Midwestern;2442635]I met a few that were treating dates as possible one-offs and so I treated those dates the same way. But for most of the gals, they wanted only one SD. Of course, if you only see them a couple of times a month, then they'll look for another SD, just like any normal GF would look for a new BF if she feels unwanted.[/QUOTE]I see. Thank you. Also given the chance to make more money, I don't think many of them would go for one SD. BBFS is one of my motivations for the monogamous arrangements but mainly I just don't want to worry about catching anything right now. Looking to turn my wishful thinking into action maybe next month, but I bet I'll have to rummage through a lot more useless profiles because of the chaos.
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I've been following and gathering info from this thread for many weeks as I've been learning the ropes of SA. I have also read some reviews about other sites like Sugardaddie, SecretBenefit and WhatsYourPrice. I think WYP and SA are owned by the same owner. Has any of you tried those ones out? SA seems to be the most expensive one.
I'm a newbie to this kind of arrangement thing. My understanding is that getting into a relationship with a babe on SA is kind of like renting a GF for lack of better words. Right? As I read it somewhere, in an ideal arrangement, you and your date would be like in a real GF / BF relationship only when you're together. When you're apart, you live separate lives and respect each other privacy. It's like she's playing a GF role when you two spend time together. Is that how you characterize it?
With that in mind, when you're having fun together with your SA 'GF', wouldn't you intimately involved in DFK, BBBJ, even bb in everything as if you're in a real romantic relationship? Yes? That would be a great incentive of finding someone from SA as if she's your 'exclusive' GF that you can do bb with. Otherwise, it would be better off to find an escort or visit FKK clubs. Do you see it that way? Have you guys been with an SA girl who would not allow DFK or bb all the way?
[QUOTE=Pessimist;2444741]Sorry, it is an expression I picked up on German FKK. It means sex without condom. I would never take such a chance with a prostitute but have done with a few sugar babes.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Midwestern;2444778]Since these gals are not pros, the risks associated with AO are less, especially if you and your SB are exclusive, which is what I often aim for. [/QUOTE]
I'm curious if you made sure that she's on some kind of birth control or asked her to take the morning after pills or something. Otherwise, wouldn't you worry that if she ends up getting pregnant, she would go after you for child support? As you may have followed the news, Hunter Biden got sued for child support by a stripper because he got her pregnant.
[QUOTE=Steve9696;2432500]Oh and I do agree with u though that real SA girls are not willing to fuck a fat slob for money. In fact the moment it smells vaguely like sex for money u are done. You have to have at least decent looks and some game if u wanna close the hotties and they wont meet u without a pic. I would never post on SA but will text an unsearchable pic after we are comfy.[/QUOTE]Did you imply that if a guy is unattractive or below average look, he would have no luck on SA with a young college hottie even if he is highly successful with a lot of cash laying around? That would suck. In an FKK, you can be a fat slob and can still fuck a 8 or above. It's not like that on SA? I thought the SA ladies have an implicit understanding (without saying or admitting) that they exchange intimacy for gift $. No?
[QUOTE=Akibono;2440682]There is a lot of ways she can find your name if you are not careful. Put the name, geographical location, and approx age, and you are easily unmasked. Even more so if you own property.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Midwestern;2440921]I totally agree with you that it is easy for the gal to know your real identity. It is almost impossible to hide it if you are going to spend quality time (e. G. , dinners, drinks, site-seeing, shows, etc.) with any SB. If you are just meeting for naughty fun only, then maybe it's possible. To me, it was just unbelievable how many of them viewed my LinkedIn profile, which meant that eventually they figured out my real name.[/QUOTE]I understand perfectly that if you're married or in a committed relationship, you want to keep your SA activities secret. I got that. On the other hand, if you're not married, single without dependents, not in any kind of relationship, and not famous, what's the down side of letting your SA girls know who you are? In that case, why would you be so paranoid about that? Are you afraid of being judged or being robbed? I assume you would never bring her home, and she would not know where you live anyway. Am I too naive? Regarding to LinkedIn, you can disable profile view for any member who is not within your network. You have control over that.
[QUOTE=Midwestern;2439854]But definitely only show your pic when it is requested. Don't just display it for anyone to see. I also had a pic on my bio, but only showed it when I was sure the person was not someone that I knew from work or from my circle of friends. It would be embarrassing if my coworker or my friend's daughter saw my pic on that site. [/QUOTE]If your coworkers recognize you on SA, then they can be just as guilty or embarrassed (or whatever adjective you have in mind) as you're by being on that site to begin with. Agree? You may be stigmatized, judged, or embarrassed for being on SA by them just as much as they would be by you since you're all on the same site. It goes both way. Doesn't it? Just like the old saying goes, don't throw stones when you live in a glass house. That's how I see it.
[QUOTE=Pessimist;2418601]In my city, there are so many fakes and flakes on SA. If you hit up white girls in the 18-25 range with attractive photos and slim bodies, only a small percent even respond back.[/QUOTE]That made me wonder. You mean white girls in that age range are mostly faked or have higher expectation, demand, or requirement? Would it be very likely that these girls select their potential SDs based on certain physical attributes such as age, ethnicity, height, look, but NOT just based on the SD's spending power which is the whole concept of SA? It's pretty much a two way street sort of thing. Right? If the ladies are that selective because they get too many messages, that tells me that there are more men than women on SA which is opposite from what SA has advertised for. What's your observation?
[QUOTE=Midwestern;2418630]So I often hope for instant chemistry, so that we can just waltz to the hotel room, so sometimes I roll the dice and book a room for the first date. [/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Pessimist;2418601]If I am on the road and already have a hotel, I can ask the girl to meet at my hotel.[/QUOTE]I can not imagine any intelligent college educated girl would go to the room upon first meet. If she is truly a regular girl and not a hardened pro, I just can not believe she would go to the room with a guy whom she just met on the first date regardless of how the chemistry turns out to be. A decent girl would not just do that. I have a feeling that some SA ladies are probably escorts. In fact, I believe even more that many are probably professional SBs who use the SA site for making money as an ongoing part-time job to supplement their incomes. They're technically not escorts per se, but they are professional SBs. There is a slight distinction here. Wouldn't you agree?
[QUOTE=SavePros321;2432528]Men are all posting their net worth on the website for everyone to see.[/QUOTE]Come on dude! You can not possibly believe those net worth. LOL. I'll take it with a grain of salt. I bet most college educated girls won't take that literally either. When I sign up, I'll probably post my net worth as if I'm a millionaire even though I'm not. LOL.
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Moneysign. Wow, so many questions I like it that while asking your questions, you wrote up your own synopsis of the thread reports. Good job.
I have used SecretBenefit and Sugardaddie. I liked the quality, quantity, and pricing structure of SA the most and have stayed with them for the most amount of time. Occasionally I have delayed renewal when my 3 month subscription ran out, but have always come back inside a few weeks. I don't like the SecretBenefit fee structure, and have felt that the quality was lacking and the good ones were already known to me through SA. Keep in mind that many girls may register on multiple sites. The benefits of being on multiple sites for them is obvious but for the guys it is deminimus as we will end up paying subscription fee many times over and yet will not see a vastly increased selection.
Also, sugar babe economics are vastly different from an FKK club. I prefer FKKs with 200 pretty girls. It is a place to take 25 fuck sessions in a week vacation, cum 15 times and do a lot of 50 Euro sessions. When you were a kid and went to the candy store, you probably wanted to bite a piece of each type of candy. That is what an FKK is for me. Sample as many sluts as possible. Sugar babe sites are different. A large amount of work goes into it before you ever get to fuck a girl. There are endless number of clicks through sites, texting back and forth (with those who reply back — more than 50% of the girls never reply back to your initial text, because they are receiving literally 100 messages a day, promising the moon and stars from a lot of guys, probably many guys are fakes and cheats themselves), eventually agreeing to meet for some sort of get to know type drink / lunch, and if you can come to a good agreement then the fuck. If you are single, you may host her her at your place, she *may* host you at her place, or else you have to rent a hotel (for married guys, hotel is the only option unless you have some kinda open marriage). BTW, many girls are indeed flakes. Even after you agree on the details and you agree to meet at the hotel, and you rent a room and text her the room number, she may get cold feet and drop out at the last minute and you have paid room rent for nothing, plus wasted a large amount of time. This sort of thing does not happen with a girl you are repeating, but a first time fuck is never a guaranteed thing until you have your dick in her pussy. This is an advantage of FKK over sugar babe stuff, there is no chance you will not fuck a girl after you both agreed to the terms.
In general, sugar babe logistics are definitely more complicated if you are married. I have freely admitted I am married. I will not give away my secrets how I manage this side of my life, nor will I tell you how I sneak away to FKKs for weeks in a year. I have zero intention of my comfy life falling apart because I am too forthcoming on this site; logistics are definitely easier to plan if you are single. You may have more money available to pay for fuck activity in general. You may also not care about your identity disclosure, but that is for each person to decide. Girls blackmailing you for child support or other stuff is a risk, a SMALL risk but A risk in my view, but if she does not know your identity she does not have this option. So that is one reason to keep it a secret, to the extent possible. BTW, I fucked only *a few*girls bareback, not all of them.
Girls will turn you down, because this is an arrangement, not a brothel. These girls are not prostitutes, cannot emphasize that enough. There may be a few prostitutes on these sites, but most of the girls are not. If I had to do a breakdown, I would say 20% of the girls are absolute scam artists who Are on the site just to scam some easy money from first timers and gullible men, 20% to 30% are girls who will not meet and want to sell pictures and videos for money, 10% to 20% may be girls who are willing to meet but will be only platonic initially or forever, and the rest are willing to have sex. But even among the girls who are willing to fuck, they will be choosy because they can afford to be. Many guys are chasing them, especially the more attractive ones. BTW, these percentages are based on my own approaches to the girls and I only approach girls with specific characteristics (age 25, white / Fair skinned Latino, slim bodies, pretty face, no excessive tats). I don't know what those percentages would be if I relaxed my specs.
You need to decide how much you want to spend per month or in total and then have a plan. Can you host her for the fuck session whenever that happens? (Some girls may prefer the first fuck session to be in a hotel because you might turn out to be psycho in bed). If your budget is a couple of grand a month, you can reasonably expect 4 to 6 sessions in a month. Obviously, not having to pay for hotel rent will save you $50 to $150 per rental. Where will you do your first time meet and greet? If you have to take her to expensive dinners, that activity itself will set you back several hundred dollars a month. Some guys try to impress girls with how much wealth they have and take the girls to very high end diners or concerts etc (typically the ones who are not that well off are the ones trying to impress the most. I know this because when I was younger and had less money, I wanted to impress people. Now, I have a lot more and don't give a fuck what people think of me and my spending habits because I feel secure in my own skin now).
If you are going to be happy with a single girl in a regular / long term arrangement, you can stretch your budget. I have received offers from young college pretty girls who asked for $1000 to $1200 per month and in return they would meet once or twice a week. Some are willing to host. If you can find two such girls, you can stretch your budget and have 2 to 3 fuck sessions a week and still come under $2 K to $2. 5 K a month. You can see why this makes sense to a college girl. If she finds you reasonably attractive, you are effectively paying her room rent and some spending money and in return she has her own sexual needs taken care of. Not a bad choice, as she may have been fucking an immature classmate who may also be a fat slob and makes her pay for his lunch. Seen from the eyes of a college girl, a 40 year old guy who is in shape and has good manners and some worldly success and money to spend is a good fuck buddy, and the money you give is icing on the cake.
A lot of this obviously depends on where you live. Kansas City is less expensive than SF or Boston. If you are lucky enough to make $300 K annually and are single in Kansas City, yes you can have a lot of fun.
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My Perspective
[QUOTE=MoneySign;2445297]I've been following and gathering info from this thread for many weeks as I've been learning the ropes of SA. I have also read some reviews about other sites like Sugardaddie, SecretBenefit and WhatsYourPrice. I think WYP and SA are owned by the same owner. Has any of you tried those ones out? SA seems to be the most expensive one.
I'm a newbie to this kind of arrangement thing. My understanding is that getting into a relationship with a babe on SA is kind of like renting a GF for lack of better words. Right? As I read it somewhere, in an ideal arrangement, you and your date would be like in a real GF / BF relationship only when you're together. When you're apart, you live separate lives and respect each other privacy. It's like she's playing a GF role when you two spend time together. Is that how you characterize it?
With that in mind, when you're having fun together with your SA 'GF', wouldn't you intimately involved in DFK, BBBJ, even bb in everything as if you're in a real romantic relationship? Yes? That would be a great incentive of finding someone from SA as if she's your 'exclusive' GF that you can do bb with. Otherwise, it would be better off to find an escort or visit FKK clubs. Do you see it that way? Have you guys been with an SA girl who would not allow DFK or bb all the way?
I'm curious if you made sure that she's on some kind of birth control or asked her to take the morning after pills or something. Otherwise, wouldn't you worry that if she ends up getting pregnant, she would go after you for child support? As you may have followed the news, Hunter Biden got sued for child support by a stripper because he got her pregnant.
Did you imply that if a guy is unattractive or below average look, he would have no luck on SA with a young college hottie even if he is highly successful with a lot of cash laying around? That would suck. In an FKK, you can be a fat slob and can still fuck a 8 or above. It's not like that on SA? I thought the SA ladies have an implicit understanding (without saying or admitting) that they exchange intimacy for gift $. No?
I understand perfectly that if you're married or in a committed relationship, you want to keep your SA activities secret. I got that. On the other hand, if you're not married, single without dependents, not in any kind of relationship, and not famous, what's the down side of letting your SA girls know who you are? In that case, why would you be so paranoid about that? Are you afraid of being judged or being robbed? I assume you would never bring her home, and she would not know where you live anyway. Am I too naive? Regarding to LinkedIn, you can disable profile view for any member who is not within your network. You have control over that.
If your coworkers recognize you on SA, then they can be just as guilty or embarrassed (or whatever adjective you have in mind) as you're by being on that site to begin with. Agree? You may be stigmatized, judged, or embarrassed for being on SA by them just as much as they would be by you since you're all on the same site. It goes both way. Doesn't it? Just like the old saying goes, don't throw stones when you live in a glass house. That's how I see it.
That made me wonder. You mean white girls in that age range are mostly faked or have higher expectation, demand, or requirement? Would it be very likely that these girls select their potential SDs based on certain physical attributes such as age, ethnicity, height, look, but NOT just based on the SD's spending power which is the whole concept of SA? It's pretty much a two way street sort of thing. Right? If the ladies are that selective because they get too many messages, that tells me that there are more men than women on SA which is opposite from what SA has advertised for. What's your observation?
I can not imagine any intelligent college educated girl would go to the room upon first meet. If she is truly a regular girl and not a hardened pro, I just can not believe she would go to the room with a guy whom she just met on the first date regardless of how the chemistry turns out to be. A decent girl would not just do that. I have a feeling that some SA ladies are probably escorts. In fact, I believe even more that many are probably professional SBs who use the SA site for making money as an ongoing part-time job to supplement their incomes. They're technically not escorts per se, but they are professional SBs. There is a slight distinction here. Wouldn't you agree?
Come on dude! You can not possibly believe those net worth. LOL. I'll take it with a grain of salt. I bet most college educated girls won't take that literally either. When I sign up, I'll probably post my net worth as if I'm a millionaire even though I'm not. LOL.[/QUOTE]Here are a few of my thoughts on these topics with around 20 SA girls:
Bareback with SA girls. No I don't think this is likely. At least any girl I want to see is smart and not desperate. Not going to risk it. Had it once in the heat of the moment but we agreed she'the take morning after pill. But yes absolutely DFK and BBBJ would be standard.
Birth Control. This is why I don't bareback. Not worried about diseases. These are low volume girls (again the ones I choose) but fuck who wants a girl to get pregnant. Like you say could ruin your life or her life or both. No chance I am risking this.
Personal Attractiveness. Clearly if you just get a hooker on SA it doesn't matter. But if you are playing the non pros it does. I'm pretty reasonable looking and fit for my age. But I have had girls ghost me after sending a pic. And clearly at dinner they will decide if they are going to the room with you. I want to be sure that goes my way.
SNL (single night lay) — You are talkings from a different generation when you say nice girls don't have sex on the first date with strangers. Girls in 20-25 bracket do it all the time. NICE GIRLS! Of my 20 this past year only 1 was a straight up pro. 4-5 were strippers and therefore semi-pro. And the remainder were just nice girls in or just out of college. All these were dinner and drinks and then sex on a single night date. I promise these are nice girls with real jobs (most are out of work now tho).
Responsiveness. I have no problem getting responses from 21-25 year olds which is my sweet spot. I don't really go for white girls often — Latina and Asian is my thing. But it's all about how you engage them. Chat them up. Get to know them. Always end with a question to keep the dialog going etc.
Money. I am sure guys lie about money both directions. I cut my net worth in half. LOL.
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Nice Points. Adding a bit.
So I have been using SA for about 3 years or so and I've used it mostly in Europe. Obviously YMMV, but having tried it in US and Europe, I prefer the EU scene much more! The bitches in the US (Denver and Phoenix mostly) seemed to have an elitist attitude concerning the whole exchange. I tried things locally in the US after using SA primarily (and successfully) in Prague, Berlin, London, Ukraine, and Vienna. This definitely turned me off to SA in the US. I'm one of those guys that has choices on SA. 80-90% of the girls I write will write me back. Therefore, I don't mind blocking a ***** if she comes off too strong and too demanding. The dynamic of the relationship has to be set from the very beginning. Be cool, but let the women know that they are dealing with someone level-headed, not desperate, or a pushover. I was talking to a girl in Denver and we seemed to be getting along. She wanted to meet for lunch and she seemed "into it", like I would probably be banging her that night. We agreed on time and place. In my mind, we would meet there. Simple stuff. She wrote me a text saying, "Hey, call me an uber at 12:30, so I can be there by 1". This is the very beginning of our relationship, you ask questions, not make demands. Blocked her and banged another SA chick that night instead.
You guys have stated plenty of facts, so I won't add to your great descriptions. The one thing I will say to anyone out there using SA is to leave your desperation at home. If you are using SA, then you have the funds to afford it, and therefore are not counted among the guys looking for 30 min sessions for 50 euros (nothing wrong with it. I've done those too. Just not my pref). I bring this up as a reminder that we all influence the market. If you are super generous and you would like to pay this SA girl $100 just to meet for coffee (no bang, just coffee), don't do it! I've seen more and more girls asking for money simply for the initial meet and greet. Who the fuck is paying these girls just to have the pleasure of dining or drinking with them?? Most are scams, but the fact is that this works on some less experienced or desperate mongers. So mongers, please do your research on the city you choose and let's keep prices from getting out of hand. I once had a girl in Hamburg tell me she wanted 700 euro per meet. I laughed and told her that she was probably new and had bad expectations. I then told her that I don't pay more than 300 - 350 for the first meet (paid after banging her brains at the end of the night or next morning. Never before). She agreed and everything went well, fucked her, recorded the session for later playback and even came in her mouth. She cut her rate by 50%. There are some more experienced girls that won't change their ask, so for them take it or leave it. In their case, they are probably a pro and you don't' want them anyway.
AO = hell no! I love AO just like the next guy, but for me, the risk is too high. I had a SB in London that I was banging about 3 times a month when I would come to town. She was in college, didn't' really want money, and preferred gifts instead. Everything worked out. Our first meet, I didn't have any condoms (rookie mistake) and she literally said to me, "I mean, I'm clean. So, it's OK. " She said these beautiful words out of a mouth that just removed itself from my dick and she was beautiful with long hair black hair, big firm tits, skinny! Man, I miss her. Hahahah. I digress. I chose not to and she spent the night and just gave me blowjobs all night. After banging her for a couple of months, giving her a few gifts, sending flowers, and just dining out (total over 3 months /8-9 meetings was about 1500) having a great time, she calls me one day and tells me to get tested because she found that someone gave her a nice little gift and she was afraid that she may have wrapped it up and gave it to me. Luckily, every session was wrapped up. BBBJ, but always CFS. This situation was enough for me to stay rigid when it comes to covered vs not covered. To each his own though.
BBBJ. Yes, you should be getting that with an SB!
Ball licking. Yes! You should be getting that with an SB!
DFK. Yes! You should definitely be getting this with an SB!
Going out. Yes! (I bring this up because I had a girl in London that only wanted ot meet at the Hotel. She said that she grew up in London and didn't want to run into anyone. 9 M people and they all know her. LOL).
Showers. Yes!
Anal. YMMV.
Submission. YMMV.
Multiple pops. Yes!
CIM. YES.
CIF. Maybe (YMMV).
If you are not getting the above, excluding YMMV, then you should get rid of the pro that you have, because she is not a SB.
Just my. 02. I just found this thread, so it's nice to see other mongers' experiences.
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2444778]Steve and Jimmy Boy, thanks for the enlightenment. Speaking of AO, that's another benefit of SA, IMHO. Since these gals are not pros, the risks associated with AO are less, especially if you and your SB are exclusive, which is what I often aim for. Incidentally, I have discovered that more gals are willing to do AO after these lockdowns. Well, that's been true in Shanghai, where things are almost back to normal. Some MP gals are even willing to do AO at their shops, because they are desperate for money. I am torn about this, of course. I know that no pussy is worth the risk, but I just love the feeling of AO and it's hard to go back to covered if one has been doing AO on occasion.[/QUOTE]I happened to have a couple of AO full services with WGs here in Germany in the past. By the way, I didn't ask for it nor did the ladies charge me extra fees for the service. It's just happened like that.
All in all, I would no longer trade off a few minutes of bareback sex with all that can potentially come with it. I was also very nervous the subsequent days, and I've promised myself to think with my brain not with my johnson.
With that being said, I'm not 100% sure that freebies and, especially, SB/semi-pros are necessarily safer. Of course, statistically it's easier to catch something from a WG who takes 5+ d*cks per day than freebies or semi-pros. However, so far I got a - luckily not serious and easily treatable - STD from a freebie years ago. Moreover, my guess is that the average semi-pro is more likely to have AO sex with multiple men than the average WG. I guess this a risk that to some extent one has to take into account with this lifestyle.
My 2 cents, ofc.
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Seeking baby's
90 percent of the girls on there under 25 wanted bareback CIM or cig also had anal from 2 who wanted to try these are girls trying to make you fall in love with them they think if you getting it raw from them your hooked now every girl over 27 wanted protection from me but all BBBJCIM I make sure they legit girls not escorts usually after a conversation you can tell what they are.
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Agree Plus
Clearly LshRoomer is an experienced SD and that's good info. I totally agree with your list of standard vs YMMV services. Pretty much spot on with my experience. I have to say it's a pleasant surprise but yes Ball Licking and Sucking from pretty much every SB. Not like where tons of pros say they don't do that or it’s extra.
Also get not only CIM but swallow from quite a few. Love that. And sleepover from a few also.
It's really sooooo much better than an escort when it's done right.
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I'm the choir sir!
[QUOTE=Steve9696;2445533]Clearly LshRoomer is an experienced SD and that's good info. I totally agree with your list of standard vs YMMV services. Pretty much spot on with my experience. I have to say it's a pleasant surprise but yes Ball Licking and Sucking from pretty much every SB. Not like where tons of pros say they don't do that or its extra.
Also get not only CIM but swallow from quite a few. Love that. And sleepover from a few also.
It's really sooooo much better than an escort when it's done right.[/QUOTE]Steve 9696,
Spoken like a true professional. I was doing the escort thing for a while, trying all types. I tried the 30 min girls, the "high class" escorts, the massage parlor girls, the 1 hour escorts, the cheap outcall escorts and I found that the experience varied too widely. It was too impersonal and one ***** actually tried to upsell me kissing. That's ridiculous. First I'd probably not kiss a girl with high mileage and second, I def wouldn't pay for it. LOL. While on the Prague thread a few years ago, I was introduced to "sponsoring" as the monger called it and from there, everything changed. The better escort experiences, for me, were with longer sessions (2+ hours). The 1 hour or 30 min sessions were too impersonal and just didn't' "feel" right. The escorts were rigid, sometimes barely talked, too mechanical, wanted to wrap everything, and just didn't' produce a good experience for me. Some would ask for extra for CIF, then completely destroy experience (by reaction). So this made me curb my hobby frequency. After trying SA for the first time, I saw that it was a different ballgame. Long sessions; they already know what you look like and vice versa (so no weird preference issues); I have never had a bait and switch but I'm sure it has happened to someone out there. The girls are more free to have a good time and "clock watching" are words in another language that these girls gladly haven't been taught. I know a lot of guys in the Prague thread like the Privats, which are nice. They don't' really use SA, however, if you compare price, a privat girl is 60/ HR and she is fucking a lot (a lot) of guys that day. An SB will want about 300/350 for 6 hours to overnight and more than likely, you are the only guy she banged that day. If you chilled with her from 8 until 2 (normal for me), that's approximately 50/ HR, which is cheaper than a privat girl and you have the added benefit of chatting with her before you meet in order to determine if you like her personality, if her English is good enough for social situations (drinks for an hour), determine what she likes to do (I usually like to smoke shisha and it's good know if the girl is into it), and to generally get a feel for her vibe. In my opinion, this makes the bang so much better, as there is another component besides her physical attraction that you can add to your blood flow. LOL. You'll know if she likes to have her hair pulled, of if she is into some crazy shit. An escort may have the service available, but unless you get to know her, it may be difficult to know what she actually 'likes' to do.
In the end, if you are going to be in this hobby, you have to keep your options open (I think). I met 2 escorts in Prague that I like and I usually hit them up or they hit me up when I'm in town. They were super cool during our first session and now, it's more seamless to be together. I don't' even know their rates. LOL. Bc we go to dinner and / or drinks then back to my hotel / airbnb to finish the night off (usually 3-5 hours total). Usually when I ask, "how much do you need? I get numbers around 150 - 300 (never more), so in the end, I'm getting an average rate of about 50/ HR, which I know is about a third of what the escorts charge in Prague for a single hour.
With that being said, yes, SA is waaaaay better. When I travel to EU, I usually hit up a regular (depending on the city) or I'm on a mission to find a new SB. At this point, I have to renew my roster, so I'm waiting for COVID to be over in order to meet some new regulars.
Just my. 02.
Safe Mongering guys.
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Great discussions
Great discussions and intel in this thread. Agree with Steven that if it's done right, then SA is great. In a nutshell, you get all the great parts of having a GF and none of the bad parts, IF it's done right. But if you usually have to shell out some money for it, and it takes a LOT of time to find the good SBs and the right arrangements.
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[QUOTE=LshRoomer;2445481]So I have been using SA for about 3 years or so and I've used it mostly in Europe. Obviously YMMV, but having tried it in US and Europe, I prefer the EU scene much more! The bitches in the US (Denver and Phoenix mostly) seemed to have an elitist attitude concerning the whole exchange. I tried things locally in the US after using SA primarily (and successfully) in Prague, Berlin, London, Ukraine, and Vienna. This definitely turned me off to SA in the US. I'm one of those guys that has choices on SA. 80-90% of the girls I write will write me back. Therefore, I don't mind blocking a ***** if she comes off too strong and too demanding. The dynamic of the relationship has to be set from the very beginning. Be cool, but let the women know that they are dealing with someone level-headed, not desperate, or a pushover. I was talking to a girl in Denver and we seemed to be getting along. She wanted to meet for lunch and she seemed "into it", like I would probably be banging her that night. We agreed on time and place. In my mind, we would meet there. Simple stuff. She wrote me a text saying, "Hey, call me an uber at 12:30, so I can be there by 1". This is the very beginning of our relationship, you ask questions, not make demands. Blocked her and banged another SA chick that night instead..[/QUOTE]Hi,
Very nice report. Thank you. One of the senior members here, BFsie, lives in Germany and is a long time user of sugar babe sites in that country from the FKK threads. Not sure if he uses SA or other sites. I have used SA in DE only in the recent past and not very much. First, if I am in DE, my focus is on trying to attend FKks as much as possible. Even if I am within 60 to 90 miles of Hessen and NRW clubs, I will make every attempt to attend the club in the evenings. However, Artemis has declined in the recent years and that gave me a chance to use SA a couple of times.
You are right about your observation that the number of girls in the US asking for money upfront is obscenely high. Uber is one thing, many girls ask, no make it demand, $100 just to have initial meet and greet dinner. "You need to prove to me that you are not a fake or fraud" is their line. Wtf. Suppose I am a fake. Then, being a fake of course I would not give any cash upfront. Suppose I am not a fake. Then, why the fuck do I need to prove that I am not a fake, since that is something I already know. Some body should slap some sense into these fucking girls.
That said, again as I said in many posts, with patience and a lot of due diligence, it is very easily possible to get sessions in the $200 to $300 range in the US depending on where you are. These days girls are desperate and if I was willing to ignore social distancing rules, I could easily obtain sessions with quite pretty girls for $200 or even a bit less based on how the dialog is going in the last few weeks.
It seems you are able to obtain good value in London. That has not been my experience; However I tried just a couple of times. I don't go to London that often. Perhaps I should give it a real try on my next visit.
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Interesting Point and yes, try London again!
[QUOTE=Pessimist;2445548]Hi,
Very nice report. Thank you. One of the senior members here, BFsie, lives in Germany and is a long time user of sugar babe sites in that country from the FKK threads. Not sure if he uses SA or other sites. I have used SA in DE only in the recent past and not very much. First, if I am in DE, my focus is on trying to attend FKks as much as possible. Even if I am within 60 to 90 miles of Hessen and NRW clubs, I will make every attempt to attend the club in the evenings. However, Artemis has declined in the recent years and that gave me a chance to use SA a couple of times.
You are right about your observation that the number of girls in the US asking for money upfront is obscenely high. Uber is one thing, many girls ask, no make it demand, $100 just to have initial meet and greet dinner. "You need to prove to me that you are not a fake or fraud" is their line. Wtf. Suppose I am a fake. Then, being a fake of course I would not give any cash upfront. Suppose I am not a fake. Then, why the fuck do I need to prove that I am not a fake, since that is something I already know. Some body should slap some sense into these fucking girls.[/QUOTE]Pessimist,
I've actually never been to an FKK. I've been to showpark in Prague, but not a proper German FKK. The experience does appeal to me, but every time I consider going, the thought comes to mind that I'll be having a drink, see a nice looking girl, chat her up for a bit, then head back to bang her based on her menu of offerings. Based on the day, I may have to wait until 2 or 3 other guys are done with her first LOL! Even still, the thought of FKK does pique my curiosity. I may just go next time I'm in Germany just to cross it off the list. Are there any FKKs that you guys recommend (forgive me for the question, I do realize I'm in the SA thread)?
I'm glad that I'm not the only one noticing the practice of asking $$ just for a quick coffee. That's why in my first post, I pleaded with my fellow mongers to not give into this piss poor practice. Without us, these girls would have to take another path. Therefore, we should be the one dictating (or influencing) the price, not them. And for new guys, I say again. Paying to meet her in order to "prove" you are not fake is a big NO NO! Don't do it! Move on! Don't fuck up the market for the rest of us and set bad expectations! As more of us mongers pay these crazy prices ( 500 for a night), we are sending a message that the prices can / should increase. I'm sure we don't want to send that message.
OK. Back to what I was saying. Don't get stuck on one piece of pussy. And never give her the cash at the beginning of your date. Most SBs will not ask you directly for the cash, they expect you to "take care" of them financially after the act is done at the end of the night or the next morning or later in the day, if you see her back to back. I've had girls that I've seen on Thursday, they left Friday morning, then we saw each other again Friday night and that's when I gave them some euros. When I think of paying beforehand (a no no. Bc remember, she is not an escort), it makes me think of one girl in Germany that ended up not going well. On our first date, we had drinks and then retired to my room. While chatting and drinking, she mentioned that she didn't' have a winter coat (this was December like 3 yrs ago). I pulled out 100 right there and told her, "OMG, go buy a jacket". I was free with the $$ bc I was looking to make her a regular and give a quick example of how we should "take care of each other". To me, it's a simple deal. I'll hook you up financially when needed and take you to places that you could never afford, and in exchange, we take care of each other's physical / fantasy needs. - I digress. Anyway, she refused the money. Then after making out a bit, she mentioned that she didn't know if I was "real" and she would only know if I gave her $500 right then, before we bang. LOL. I was thinking with my little head and actually said okay and left the room to find an ATM. Don't laugh guys, I was a bit less experienced at this point. While trying to find an ATM (not easy), it gave me time to think. I'm so glad it took us a while to find one! I changed my mind and told her that I'd be more comfortable with 3 instead of 5. She got upset (rightfully so, I was a dick and changed my mind at the last minute while literally in front of the ATM. Hahahah) and from there the date was over. I called her a cab and checked it off as experience +1. She was a solid 7.5, but the long bright red hair added to her sex appeal and I wanted to see what she could do in bed. Oh well, I saved the cash and had a great time a few days later in London.
Onto London. I can imagine that you could have had mixed results in London. For me, my London girl "chats" have been hit or miss, based on their expectations, and I can see how that would turn someone off with London. However, when chat evolves into a real meeting, I've seen nothing but greatness in London. Girls were always cool, they were willing, not demanding, and able to experiment. Money was never an issue and I had one that I literally never gave $$, just gifts and outings. The funny thing is of all the chicks that I've met in London, none of them were actually from the UK. LOL. So I would say to give it a try, but be patient, to find a good SB. When you find a good one, the $$ exchanges easier; it's not based on when you see her, it's more a flow of benefits. Ahahahaha.
Safe mongering!
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SA in Shanghai?
All this SA discussion has me missing it. I only used it in the states. But now that I do not see myself in the states any time soon, maybe I will try it in Shanghai. Anyone try SA in China? In Shanghai? If so, can you share your experiences?
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2445774]All this SA discussion has me missing it. I only used it in the states. But now that I do not see myself in the states any time soon, maybe I will try it in Shanghai. Anyone try SA in China? In Shanghai? If so, can you share your experiences?[/QUOTE]I just checked SA searching Shanghai area (100 miles) - there are 20 to 25 girls currently online and roughly 100 girls who logged in the last 24 hours. Photos look good. Not at all clear to me how many of them speak good English or any English. Many of them have their bio write up in Chinese only. A few listed friends with benefits as one of their seeking attributes.
I have no real experience using the service in Shanghai. I personally would be very wary of using pay for sex services in commie China with zero recourse to any due legal process. That's just me. To the extent possible, I avoid ever traveling to that country.
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Money Upfront and FKK
On the topic of "I need some money to see you" RUN AWAY fast. Look I don't buy into the ruining the market thing. Markets will do what they do. But I know that any girl that asks for cash for a platonic meet and greet is NOT someone you want to see. In fact as soon as they ask for cash upfront you can be 90% sure they are a scammer — never going to be down for a real date with sex. Why should they when they can get $100 from a bunch of rubes for doing nothing! Instant block!
I am also not a fan of the coffee date. First date is ALWAYS at least drinks but more likely dinner and drinks — and go to the room that night. My experience is close the deal in that first date window. Get a vibe going and some drinks flowing and clothes will be shed shortly!
To Lshroomers FKK question you simply must do it. You don't do it for the sex. I guarantee your SB sex is better because it's more real. But you do it for the EXPERIENCE. There is nothing on earth like the FKK and a buffet of beautiful women (well the Boates if São Paulo can be equally satisfying) and you haven't really lived life fully as a man if you have not done FKK ImO.
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[QUOTE=LshRoomer;2445665]Pessimist,
I've actually never been to an FKK. I've been to showpark in Prague, but not a proper German FKK. The experience does appeal to me, but every time I consider going, the thought comes to mind that I'll be having a drink, see a nice looking girl, chat her up for a bit, then head back to bang her based on her menu of offerings. Based on the day, I may have to wait until 2 or 3 other guys are done with her first LOL! Even still, the thought of FKK does pique my curiosity. I may just go next time I'm in Germany just to cross it off the list. Are there any FKKs that you guys recommend (forgive me for the question, I do realize I'm in the SA thread)?
I'm glad that I'm not the only one noticing the practice of asking $$ just for a quick coffee. That's why in my first post, I pleaded with my fellow mongers to not give into this piss poor practice. Without us, these girls would have to take another path. Therefore, we should be the one dictating (or influencing) the price, not them. And for new guys, I say again. Paying to meet her in order to "prove" you are not fake is a big NO NO! Don't do it! Move on! Don't fuck up the market for the rest of us and set bad expectations! As more of us mongers pay these crazy prices ( 500 for a night), we are sending a message that the prices can / should increase. I'm sure we don't want to send that message.
OK. Back to what I was saying.[/QUOTE]Actually, I didn't have any result in London, LOL. This is how it works for me: If I go to Europe, I generally try to take a side tour and make a trip to FKK at least for a couple of days. As such, I am not looking to spend too many days in London. Be there for the absolute minimum number of days for business and try to make beeline to FKKs LOL. And when in London, it is also possible that I may have a business dinner with colleagues, which leaves even less time for sugar babes. I try to look up girls on SA in London and see if I can negotiate a deal before I even step in London, but till now, such negotiations have not gotten anywhere. Since I am only there for a couple of days, it becomes a one time thing and the girls have asked for too much money so far. And I am not willing to fork over that much because I may be heading to FKks the next day and I can bang chicks for 50.
If I spend a couple of weeks in London on business, I will probably become more serious about finding sugar babes in London. But that has not happened yet.
I think you should try to attend FKK at least once. The first time you step into one of those places is unlike anything you may have ever seen. These days the experience has become a bit jaded but 8/9 years ago, girls were less pushy, and service was quite good. To be in a place where you have 100 totally naked chicks and knowing that you can fuck any of them on the spot for 50 is an awesome feeling. I end up doing 15 to 25 sessions per a normal trip (4 to 6 days) or fewer if it is just a short stop for a day or two. It is a good idea to try one of the larger clubs in NRW or Hessen for your first visit.
I can't tell you one is better than the other. I would say sugar babes and FKK are different experiences. That is something you need to find for yourself.
You give give advice about not giving into sharky sugar babes. I have been doing this for 4 years now. I would say though, "destroying the market by paying too much" typically does not happen too much. This is a very fragmented market. In my city alone, there are several thousand girls on SA over wide range of races, ages, body types, other attributes. I don't think they are talking to each other too much. Most girls know a couple of other girls who are on SA, that's it. What I notice is that many girls have no idea what is a realistic expectation. Some ask for $500 per session but quickly come down to $200. That sort of thing never happens in a FKK. In a club, there is transmission of information from experienced girls to new girls, there is a somewhat rigid to loosely elastic pricing structure, etc. I think it really pays to be patient and negotiate with many girls. Eventually you will receive good offers, and over time you accumulate a fairly large stable of girls. I revisit girls from even a couple of years ago, and they don't hold a grudge that we did not get together in a while. If they still need money, some are willing to have a quick one time session. This is the advantage of being on the site for a long time.
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Top Notch SA Girl Report Out
As we all suffer through the drought, perhaps you will enjoy this previously unpublished SA girl report out. Enjoy!
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Of my three NYC girls I surely must write this one up as my finest complete dating experience ever. (At the time).
So Emily is Vietnamese and super cute. She's in college in NYC -- her senior year but is from LA. She has a true valley girl sort of free spirit about her, like everything in the world is new and amazing.
We really got lucky to go on a date together. Because I'd been surfing NYC for weeks and thought I was done. Then on the Friday before I find her. I accidentally overlooked her age range maxing out at 45 and sent her a ping and was surprised when she responded. But then we have instant chemistry and witty banter. It's interesting how this just totally works with some girls and you get mutually infatuated over the wire. It's really great. Probably best chemistry since Valentina.
At some point I casually threw in something about meeting and she was all over it. But she suggested coffee and possibly a later meet up. I told her I had to politely decline because I was too busy for two meetings (the truth) and I thought we were done. So she says she's not opposed to a single dinner meeting but she's new and how would that work.
This is actually good because I can explain how I agreed terms with other girls and this involves mentioning room time. So we get that elephant out of the room. I tell her I would gift her in the hundreds but I sent girls who asked 500 packing. With this loose framework we agree to meet.
I pick out a lovely high end Italian place with a view of the Brooklyn Bridge. Last minute she asks if I can call her an Uber which is a bit of a pro move so I form some unfounded doubts. When she arrives, these doubts are quickly cast aside. She is such a genuine vivacious young force of nature. Just bubbly and so excited to be treated like a princess.
We have a lovely dinner together and it is so much fun to be introducing this girl to the high-end dinner date. She's over the moon about the food and the view and everything else. She's never had Tiramisu which she adores after ordering. Just magical to see her thousand watt smile across from me all evening.
I guess conversation must have just flowed beyond even expectations Because before we knew it it was 10:15. Two hours absolutely flew by. So we decide to go for a drink in Brooklyn and will walk the 20 minutes to a speakeasy I found on Google.
We start by just lingering outside on the dock looking at the Brooklyn Bridge. Very romantic holding hands etc but I don't recall kissing her. Still very comfortable. We walk hand in hand the mile or so to the bar which we can't find but end up in another one. It's OK but I think we are both thinking about the room and don't stay more than 15 minutes. And we walk to the hotel.
The night before with Ashley I got surprised by the screening check they set up at night at the hotel, where you have to pass thru a security check of key cards. I had Ashley trailing me so as to not attract late night colleague attention and had to make the last minute decision to motion her up to me and get her thru the check. I was prepared for this with Emily and gave her a key in the Uber. So it went fine being slightly separated and we were soon in the room together.
Emily had only been with three guys before lifetime. But one was a boyfriend of seven years. So at 23 she was an endearing mix of experienced and inexperienced. Properly liquored up she was not too nervous but a bit giggly and apologetic about not being a good kisser. True to her word it was pretty mediocre to start but she was a quick learner and soon matched my style. It was super nice once we got passionate.
We start making out fully clothed standing near the bed. I almost always start this way. But we got naked quickly as she wore this amazing dress. It was kind of like a suit with one button and no bra. So with the flick of a button she is in nothing but panties. And wow. A banging hot body. Rather full firm Bcups and a great ass. Really really good.
We start on the bed with me pulling her down on top of me and are making out naked. It's kinda sweet but I have to direct her hand down to my junk to let her know she should be hands on at this point. LOL. These newbies are delightful!
But when she gets to BBBJ it's very good. Later she says she learned to treat it like a popsicle (schoolgirl laugh goes here). I provide some direction moving her to BLS. This seems unfamiliar territory for her but she does an OK job and so fun to be with a BLS virgin. Just the "newness" of being with her is intoxicating.
I remember getting on top of her naked and really kissing her passionately. And working my way down. Plenty of tit sucking. What a nice pair. And she enjoys the circular motion. And lots of licking and teasing. By the time I reach her pussy she is a sloppy mess.
And boy is she in for a ride. I lick and suck and finger her Gspot and she squirms and bucks and has several Os Over a twenty plus minute session. When I come up for air she is totally sweaty and spent and says, "Well I guess I've never had that done right before! That was really something!" LOL. Glad to be of service ma'am!
We fuck in all the usual positions with Mish kissing being spectacular and really good doggie. What a nice body. But we head back to the BBBJ for a finish. She's got great on-shaft technique and I rise to the occasion to give her a hot mouth load that she swallows with grace. This just another benefit of the right SA girls you are boyfriend for the night and they treat you like one.
The afterglow is great and we have the best pillow talk ever. We stare deeply into each other's eyes for long periods. I do recall her saying "I'm not an escort am I?" and kinda have to White lie "no baby this is different. We both want to be here and the gift is just a side effect" It's sweet that she wants to remain on the sweet girl side of the line if she can.
I try to convince her to spend the night and had I pushed hard I think she would have. But in the end she decides to go. We call her an Uber and I track it till she gets home. What a sweetheart. Overall including dinner and romance and the bedroom, this is the best date I've ever had. (At the time. Krystal in Las Vegas blew the roof of my world a few months later!
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[QUOTE=Steve9696;2446177]As we all suffer through the drought, perhaps you will enjoy this previously unpublished SA girl report out. Enjoy!!.[/QUOTE]That is the secret to a girl making a lot of money. If she can make you feel that way, then the sky is your credit limit. But not that many women really enjoy the deed. That is why they are rare.
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[QUOTE=Pessimist;2445806]I just checked SA searching Shanghai area (100 miles) - there are 20 to 25 girls currently online and roughly 100 girls who logged in the last 24 hours. Photos look good. Not at all clear to me how many of them speak good English or any English. Many of them have their bio write up in Chinese only. A few listed friends with benefits as one of their seeking attributes.
I have no real experience using the service in Shanghai. I personally would be very wary of using pay for sex services in commie China with zero recourse to any due legal process. That's just me. To the extent possible, I avoid ever traveling to that country.[/QUOTE]Thanks, Pessimist. I also took a quick peak at the Shanghai profiles on SA, and your assessment is spot on. After looking at a couple of pages, I quickly remembered how tiresome it was being on SA, so I just quit after 15 minutes. That said, I did see a couple of white gals that piqued my interest, but right now it's still semi-strict in Shanghai. Security at apartment complexes haven't loosened up completely, and hotels are on extra alert. Still plenty of scrutiny and screening, man. So, this really undermines my ability to take full advantage of SA anyway. But when I am finally back in the states, I may take up SA again. The reports that you guys are posting are kinda drawing me back.
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Gals that just want to date successful men
You guys ever come across profiles where the gals say they have good jobs and are not escorts, but they are on SA just because they want to date successful men? If so, what were your experiences with these gals?
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2446426]You guys ever come across profiles where the gals say they have good jobs and are not escorts, but they are on SA just because they want to date successful men? If so, what were your experiences with these gals?[/QUOTE]Girls love to find rich dudes with exotic cars and huge house, to show their social status (mostly on Instagram). They know they can use their looks and sex to get the easy Men comfortably.
Long time ago I met this girl who had somewhat similar bio, and when we met for dinner, she was more interested in knowing my bank balance rather than me. I knew it instantly I am not going to date her ever. She needed expensive gifts (which will cost way more that some pay to top escorts), a guy who can buy her an expensive apparent in great neighborhood, and I know many guys who do that. So yes there are girls, on SA or in clubs who don't ask money directly for sex but aim for long term investment.
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2446425]Thanks, Pessimist. I also took a quick peak at the Shanghai profiles on SA, and your assessment is spot on. After looking at a couple of pages, I quickly remembered how tiresome it was being on SA, so I just quit after 15 minutes. That said, I did see a couple of white gals that piqued my interest, but right now it's still semi-strict in Shanghai. Security at apartment complexes haven't loosened up completely, and hotels are on extra alert. Still plenty of scrutiny and screening, man. So, this really undermines my ability to take full advantage of SA anyway. But when I am finally back in the states, I may take up SA again. The reports that you guys are posting are kinda drawing me back.[/QUOTE]Are you currently in Shanghai? I did not realize. I would love to know your experiences in that region, either on SA or in general with paid sex. I am just naturally quite scared of doing anything illegal in a communist country. But I hear prostitution is not uncommon in China. I know that apps like Tantan have some number of semi professional girls. The other thing I would be curious about is prices in China. As you know, one group which has gained a reputation as playing spoilers in the market are the Asian mongers in FKKs. They fly in, give 250 Euros for a service that is supposed to cost 50 or 100 and now the girls are expecting such exorbitant amounts from all other men. So, I am curious if SA girls in China have super inflated expectations. It appears to me that there is a lot of money sloshing around in that part of the world, and a pretty girl can rake in a lot.
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2446426]You guys ever come across profiles where the gals say they have good jobs and are not escorts, but they are on SA just because they want to date successful men? If so, what were your experiences with these gals?[/QUOTE]Yeah, girls who say such things are somewhat common. Have I actually been with them and was I able to verify if their stories were accurate? Can't remember too many. I know that one girl I have been seeing for a few months has a degree in biology from one of the best universities in this part of the country and taking some Masters classes but she has anxiety issues, has not found any meaningful job. She is very sweet and definitely not an escort. At the same time, she is not on SA just to date men, and she needs help but she is shy and after 5 lunch dates, I still have not had sex with her yet. We were going to get to that soon, and this virus hit LOL. Just her luck and my luck, as she needs the money and I am quite attracted to her.
I have also run into some mid 20's women who say they are in marketing or other jobs, a few who are flight attendants, and others in similar careers. If I expand my search to mid 30's, I may be able to find more of these women with their own successful careers but I do stop in mid / late 20's even while searching and really prefer to be with girls under 25, if possible.
If the intent of your question is whether there are good looking successful women who are using SA as some sort of Tinder to find dates that could morph into relationships down the line and where they are not poking to get paid for every meet and hookup, I suppose there are a few. I have seen such profiles but I personally do not have experience with them first hand, because I am mainly looking for hookups with younger girls and I make it clear that relationship is out of the question from the very first chat.
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Jobs vs Success
[QUOTE=Midwestern;2446426]You guys ever come across profiles where the gals say they have good jobs and are not escorts, but they are on SA just because they want to date successful men? If so, what were your experiences with these gals?[/QUOTE]I think you are asking about girls with white color jobs who want to dabble. I have only come across on of those. She was 34 and worked pretty high level in Finance. But I made the mistake of a coffee date plus she really doesn't have the incentive of the other girls since she's completely independent. So between her job and her age we didn't seal the deal.
That said only 1 of my 20 ish SBs I would say is a straight up escort. Most have (had?) a job of some sort and this was a sideline. Of course these are the girls I look for so no surprise. Here are the professions that I remember. And the ones that are college students are not fake college girls. I got to know them well enough that they are what they say they are.
23 - engineering student.
26 - legal assistant.
26 - construction office manager.
24 - yoga instructor and shibari specialist.
23 - fashion student.
26 - criminology student and stripper.
23 - hairdresser and stripper.
20 - college student.
24 - IT technician.
23 - waitress (high end; trains staff).
I think those who say SA girls are hookers have not spent much time with good SA girls. (And of course there are plenty of hookers too. I just avoid them.) They are just hot girls, not afraid of their sexuality, experimenting (and thus 21-24 is my sweet spot) and picking up some cash on the side.
And the side benefit that I was never expecting is I now have a regular go to in these lean times. After our second hotel date she invited me to her place. So we can enjoy Covid-free sex. 😋
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2446426]You guys ever come across profiles where the gals say they have good jobs and are not escorts, but they are on SA just because they want to date successful men? If so, what were your experiences with these gals?[/QUOTE]All the time, and it is better if they have work. For the most part, I like the women who have jobs and are not dependent on me totally. Students are more available time wise than those who work. I have tried out strippers as SBs and that has been a disaster. If you keep them as hooker types, strippers are fine even above average but they suck as SBs and not in a good way.
I have been more focused on Latin American women and have been really happy with the ones who are students and work. The Latin women put so much more effort into pleasing their man it is not funny. I have three right now they send me porno type sex videos every week.
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Shanghai
[QUOTE=Pessimist;2446439]Are you currently in Shanghai? I did not realize. I would love to know your experiences in that region, either on SA or in general with paid sex. I am just naturally quite scared of doing anything illegal in a communist country. But I hear prostitution is not uncommon in China. I know that apps like Tantan have some number of semi professional girls. The other thing I would be curious about is prices in China. As you know, one group which has gained a reputation as playing spoilers in the market are the Asian mongers in FKKs. They fly in, give 250 Euros for a service that is supposed to cost 50 or 100 and now the girls are expecting such exorbitant amounts from all other men. So, I am curious if SA girls in China have super inflated expectations. It appears to me that there is a lot of money sloshing around in that part of the world, and a pretty girl can rake in a lot.[/QUOTE]Yeah, I'm an expat in Shanghai. I cannot speak Mandarin, so my mongering is limited to what I can pickup from the ISG forum on Shanghai, and the intel in that forum is pretty good. I contribute a lot to that forum. Steve, in this thread, is also a great contributor to that forum. If you ever come to Shanghai, then I can show you some of the ropes. There are definitely dos and don'ts, especially don'ts. Regarding prices, well, I've only been in China for 9 years, and while I've been here, the prices have more than doubled. For example, a massage and happy ending is about $60 for massage and $40 for tip. This price is pretty much identical to USA Prices for similar experience. Escort prices range a lot. The old days where there were plenty of cheap options, such as BBSs, are over. But yeah, the government was cracking down on stuff, such as saunas. And raids on MPs were becoming more common. However, because of the coronavirus lockdown, it feels like LE and local authorities have lengthened the leash a bit, to allow MP owners and their gals to recover from their financial hardships.
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SBs with jobs that don't want explicit P4 P
Thanks guys, for the replies to my question. Maybe I will peruse SA in Shanghai some more. The main reason why I posted this question is because I noticed that some white gals in SA Shanghai are stating that they have jobs, and they are just on the site to find someone successful to date while they are posted in Shanghai. Their profiles look more interesting than the Chinese gals' profiles. They genuinely seem bored, and looking for someone to play with. For the Chinese gals on SA Shanghai, they are older than the typical SA gal, and they look marriage minded.
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Thank you for all your responses which are quite informative. Many of you brought up the risk of STD which is a legitimate concern. (I've never done AO in FKK as the risk is not justified.) What struck me is that none of you seemed to bring up getting STD tests together with your SBs. I remember when I was in college, my roommate and his GF used to get tested together when they're dating. I guess it's not an unusual thing to do. Isn't it? I wouldn't mind doing that. I'm not saying go get tested at the beginning of the relationship. After going on few intimate dates / nights to gain trusts from each other, you and your SA GF become kind of like 'real' GF / BF. Right? If you decide to continue the arrangement, you can then easily convince each other to get tested together so you can engage in AO next time you meet. What am I missing here? Why not get tested at the beginning of a date and share the results in your next meet up. If you both are clean, voila! You can enjoy AO all the way with a piece of mind. Am I out of my mind or what?
[QUOTE=LshRoomer;2445481]
BBBJ. Yes, you should be getting that with an SB!
Ball licking. Yes! You should be getting that with an SB!
DFK. Yes! You should definitely be getting this with an SB!
Going out. Yes! (I bring this up because I had a girl in London that only wanted ot meet at the Hotel. She said that she grew up in London and didn't want to run into anyone. 9 M people and they all know her. LOL).
Showers. Yes!
Anal. YMMV.
Submission. YMMV.
Multiple pops. Yes!
CIM. YES.
CIF. Maybe (YMMV).
If you are not getting the above, excluding YMMV, then you should get rid of the pro that you have, because she is not a SB.
[/QUOTE]Well taken! You forgot to mention giving DATY which, I assume, is an automatic given. Right? I suppose you can throw in some fingering activities in there as well. LOL.
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[QUOTE=MoneySign;2446637]Thank you for all your responses which are quite informative. Many of you brought up the risk of STD which is a legitimate concern. (I've never done AO in FKK as the risk is not justified.) What struck me is that none of you seemed to bring up getting STD tests together with your SBs. I remember when I was in college, my roommate and his GF used to get tested together when they're dating. I guess it's not an unusual thing to do. Isn't it? I wouldn't mind doing that. I'm not saying go get tested at the beginning of the relationship. After going on few intimate dates / nights to gain trusts from each other, you and your SA GF become kind of like 'real' GF / BF. Right? If you decide to continue the arrangement, you can then easily convince each other to get tested together so you can engage in AO next time you meet. What am I missing here? Why not get tested at the beginning of a date and share the results in your next meet up. If you both are clean, voila! You can enjoy AO all the way with a piece of mind. Am I out of my mind or what?
Well taken! You forgot to mention giving DATY which, I assume, is an automatic given. Right? I suppose you can throw in some fingering activities in there as well. LOL.[/QUOTE]It is a question of risk tolerance, which is a personal matter.
Some of us have more tolerance than others. Some guys here may always drive under the speed limit, perhaps some drive consistently at 15 miles above the limit, and so forth.
I have been going to FKKs for several yers and have always received BBBJ in addition to giving DATY. Short of bareback sex, I normally don't refrain from other sexual activities in these clubs. I tend to enjoy more than a dozen sessions, often upto 2 dozen sessions, with very few repeat girls when I am on these FKK trips. I imagine this is a pattern that is common to many mogers here. These girls are fucking more than 10 different guys a day, and numbering into several hundred different guys per year. If guys are comfortable doing that, you can imaginne our risk tolerance is much higher than a guy who needs testing before initiating any kind of sexual acitivity with a new girl.
Now, if you are saying "why not get tested, and then have bareback sex", that is a fair point. However, I will say that bareback sex always carries some amount of risk. Unbeknown to you, she may be fucking other guys (sugar daddies or boy friends or one night stands), and from her pov you may be doing the same. So, even if you get tested once, it hardly means subsequent sex sessions are risk free (unless you plan to get tested before every fuck session, which of course is not practical). So, as I said at the start, every guy has to decide how much is risk is OK for him and deal with consequences as they arise. In my case, I have been lucky so far and after several hundreds of girls all of who gave me BBBJ (and a very small number of sugar babes that I fucked AO), I am still disease free, fingers crossed.
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Yes. You are Out of Your Mind.
[QUOTE=MoneySign;2446637]Thank you for all your responses which are quite informative. Many of you brought up the risk of STD which is a legitimate concern. (I've never done AO in FKK as the risk is not justified.) What struck me is that none of you seemed to bring up getting STD tests together with your SBs. I remember when I was in college, my roommate and his GF used to get tested together when they're dating. I guess it's not an unusual thing to do. Isn't it? I wouldn't mind doing that. I'm not saying go get tested at the beginning of the relationship. After going on few intimate dates / nights to gain trusts from each other, you and your SA GF become kind of like 'real' GF / BF. Right? If you decide to continue the arrangement, you can then easily convince each other to get tested together so you can engage in AO next time you meet. What am I missing here? Why not get tested at the beginning of a date and share the results in your next meet up. If you both are clean, voila! You can enjoy AO all the way with a piece of mind. Am I out of my mind or what?
Well taken! You forgot to mention giving DATY which, I assume, is an automatic given. Right? I suppose you can throw in some fingering activities in there as well. LOL.[/QUOTE]Obviously as others say we each have our risk tolerance. I think the chance of STD with a part time SB (is not a real pro) are very very low. But the chance of accidental pregnancy is not low and the consequences very high! You can ruin one or both of your lives pretty quickly with that. I'the give that a lot more thought than than the STD thing.
Additionally "let's get tested" is going to send any good SB packing. To any worthy girl this is the equivalent of saying "I think you are a cheap ****". May as well slap her in the face while you are at it. Sure relationship killer with any girl I would want to be with. I cannot imagine insulting a girl in this way.
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[QUOTE=Steve9696;2446744]Obviously as others say we each have our risk tolerance. I think the chance of STD with a part time SB (is not a real pro) are very very low. But the chance of accidental pregnancy is not low and the consequences very high! You can ruin one or both of your lives pretty quickly with that. I'the give that a lot more thought than than the STD thing.
Additionally "let's get tested" is going to send any good SB packing. To any worthy girl this is the equivalent of saying "I think you are a cheap ****". May as well slap her in the face while you are at it. Sure relationship killer with any girl I would want to be with. I cannot imagine insulting a girl in this way.[/QUOTE]I agree completely. The risk of a pregnancy and a paternity suit is not worth the risk. You could be on the hook for 21 years of child support. Since this is not a prostitute, you will have little sympathy in a court. The entrapment defense will not work because you chose not to use protection.
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Getting std tests
I agree that getting STD testing done on your SB is probably a waste of time. First, if she's a college student, then she's regularly banging college guys. Remember how everyone was boinking each other in college? Well, it's now a LOT more liberal, especially in the age of Tinder. She's probably letting them bareback her and taking it CIM or CIP or whatever. Second, if she's older, then she probably already has or had an STD, like HPV, given that she's sexually liberal, and given that she's on SA. Third, it'll be a buzz kill for her. Fourth, trying to remain anonymous is key. Getting an STD test done together may jeopardize that anonymity. Eventually, you're not going to marry the SB, so it'll be best if you can disappear with confidence when the time is right. I made the mistake of revealing my identity with a few SBs and they created huge drama for me later on, and I still continue to suffer a little bit because of it.
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2446598]Yeah, I'm an expat in Shanghai. I cannot speak Mandarin, so my mongering is limited to what I can pickup from the ISG forum on Shanghai, and the intel in that forum is pretty good. I contribute a lot to that forum. Steve, in this thread, is also a great contributor to that forum. If you ever come to Shanghai, then I can show you some of the ropes. There are definitely dos and don'ts, especially don'ts. Regarding prices, well, I've only been in China for 9 years, and while I've been here, the prices have more than doubled. For example, a massage and happy ending is about $60 for massage and $40 for tip. This price is pretty much identical to USA Prices for similar experience. Escort prices range a lot. The old days where there were plenty of cheap options, such as BBSs, are over. But yeah, the government was cracking down on stuff, such as saunas. And raids on MPs were becoming more common. However, because of the coronavirus lockdown, it feels like LE and local authorities have lengthened the leash a bit, to allow MP owners and their gals to recover from their financial hardships.[/QUOTE]Yesterday I sent messages to a handful of girls in Beijing. When I checked out Beijing, there were 15 to 20 online SA at that moment and nearly 125 who had logged in the prior 24 hours. I have to say, the average girl on SA in Beijing vicinity is generally young (I did not use any age or other filters), slim, and quite good looking. I have no idea if they are lying or have used photoshop or uploaded old photos from their youth or what, but just based on their profile alone they look nice. I did not lie in my messages; just said "nice profile, what type of arrangement are you seeking, what is your allowance or gift expectation?" I did not say I will be in Beijing in the near term or anything like that. Surprisingly, 70% to 80% of the girls I pinged replied back to me. This is a much higher percent than I normally experience in my home city in the US. Every single girl (except one) replied back in Mandarin and I had to use Google translate to read it. One said "you are not in Beijing now, sorry I am not interested" (still, she was polite enough to reply). One said "Stable relationship is not less than 3 W per month, suitable to add WeChat" -- she also gave her wechat name at the end which I deleted for this post. Needless to say, I do not have wechat and have no interest anyway. I have no idea what she means by 3 W per month. A couple just gave me access to their photos with no messages, a couple gave me just their wechat names and no other messages, and one said "Are you in a hurry? I rarely read this" (actually, I just saw that this one actually replied in English directly. The only one who did).
So, that is my market survey of SA Beijing scene LOL. I personally have no interest in Beijing of course or any city in China. I do have to say, the majority of the girls look like models, so skinny. Perhaps Asian girls are naturally like that? In my home city, the # of such slim girls can be counted on hands. All these beef fed mid west girls. Know how to twerk their ample booty LOL.
I renewed my 3 month SA subscription in early Feb I think. It should expire soon. Normally, I renew within a week or sometimes even immediately upon expiry. The last 2+ months have been a total waste, and while I keep chatting with new sugar babes for relief of tedium, I am obviously not meeting anyone, least of all new sugarbabes from SA, so that is most of the $240 wasted. I will not renew when this expires until the quarantine is fully behind us and I am comfortable meeting any, and also when restaurants and hotels etc are fully open.
I am curious how much it costs to subscribe to SA in China? For example, Tinder is more expensive than Tantan from my understanding. So, I am curious about SA fee. Personally, SA charges way too much in my view - $80 a month if buying for 3 months, $90 if paying each month. Is significantly more than any dating site is charging. But I don't know if this pricing is the same in all countries.
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Thanks for checking it out. Based on what you found, the following is possible: (1) Many of those gals are non-pros and are legit, as it is common for older rich guys to have SBs, even out in the open. I have heard girls openly admitting to being an SB or a mistress without feeling ashamed at all. In fact, they were proud, as it verified how attractive they were. (2) Some of the profiles may be run by pimps. This was common with Craigslist and WeChat gals. And so the pics are fake and the gals that show up are pros. But overall, yes, lots of skinny cute gals in China.
[QUOTE=Pessimist;2447064]Yesterday I sent messages to a handful of girls in Beijing. When I checked out Beijing, there were 15 to 20 online SA at that moment and nearly 125 who had logged in the prior 24 hours. I have to say, the average girl on SA in Beijing vicinity is generally young (I did not use any age or other filters), slim, and quite good looking. I have no idea if they are lying or have used photoshop or uploaded old photos from their youth or what, but just based on their profile alone they look nice. I did not lie in my messages; just said "nice profile, what type of arrangement are you seeking, what is your allowance or gift expectation?" I did not say I will be in Beijing in the near term or anything like that. Surprisingly, 70% to 80% of the girls I pinged replied back to me. This is a much higher percent than I normally experience in my home city in the US. Every single girl (except one) replied back in Mandarin and I had to use Google translate to read it. One said "you are not in Beijing now, sorry I am not interested" (still, she was polite enough to reply). One said "Stable relationship is not less than 3 W per month, suitable to add WeChat" -- she also gave her wechat name at the end which I deleted for this post. Needless to say, I do not have wechat and have no interest anyway. I have no idea what she means by 3 W per month. A couple just gave me access to their photos with no messages, a couple gave me just their wechat names and no other messages, and one said "Are you in a hurry? I rarely read this" (actually, I just saw that this one actually replied in English directly. The only one who did).
So, that is my market survey of SA Beijing scene LOL. I personally have no interest in Beijing of course or any city in China. I do have to say, the majority of the girls look like models, so skinny. Perhaps Asian girls are naturally like that? In my home city, the # of such slim girls can be counted on hands. All these beef fed mid west girls. Know how to twerk their ample booty LOL.
I renewed my 3 month SA subscription in early Feb I think. It should expire soon. Normally, I renew within a week or sometimes even immediately upon expiry. The last 2+ months have been a total waste, and while I keep chatting with new sugar babes for relief of tedium, I am obviously not meeting anyone, least of all new sugarbabes from SA, so that is most of the $240 wasted. I will not renew when this expires until the quarantine is fully behind us and I am comfortable meeting any, and also when restaurants and hotels etc are fully open.
I am curious how much it costs to subscribe to SA in China? For example, Tinder is more expensive than Tantan from my understanding. So, I am curious about SA fee. Personally, SA charges way too much in my view - $80 a month if buying for 3 months, $90 if paying each month. Is significantly more than any dating site is charging. But I don't know if this pricing is the same in all countries.[/QUOTE].
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[QUOTE=Pessimist;2447064]I have no idea what she means by 3 W per month. [/QUOTE]That usually means 30 K which is a lot in this case so I am not sure.
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[QUOTE=Nounce;2447155]That usually means 30 K which is a lot in this case so I am not sure.[/QUOTE]30 k RMB is about $5000. She is probably interested in being an "er nai. " This means kept mistress in Chinese. It's common for rich guys to have them. My friends in China, both men and women, tease me that I don't have one. They say it must mean that I am poor. I once thought about having an er nai. These gals are usually looking for a rented apartment and a spending allowance. Many MP gals are er nais, and their asking rate is about $600 per month for rent and about $900 per month for spending allowance. So, the quoted 30 k RMB is a lot. She must be young and pretty to ask for that much, but it's a reasonable ask if she is both young and pretty.
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Brazilian
For anybody who might be interested in a Brazilian sugar baby. Or just a plain, straight-up tute! I can recommend porn star Elisa Sanches if tats don't bother you: [URL]https://www.riosexsite.com/[/URL].
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[QUOTE=TheCane;2447253]For anybody who might be interested in a Brazilian sugar baby. Or just a plain, straight-up tute! I can recommend porn star Elisa Sanches if tats don't bother you: [URL]https://www.riosexsite.com/[/URL].[/QUOTE]How much do those girls cost, hourly or whatever basis?
I remember from reading your posts that you like Brazilian girls, is that right? I typically go for skinny White girl look. When choose Latinos, I have tended to pick Skinny fair skinned Colombian girls and Venezuelan girls when available in the US. Haven't had a chance to sample too many Argentinians. The type I like looks like this.
[URL]https://www.eurogirlsescort.com/escort/chantal/91028/?list=vusnbr[/URL]
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STD testing papers are feel good measures
[QUOTE=Midwestern;2446931]I agree that getting STD testing done on your SB is probably a waste of time. First, if she's a college student, then she's regularly banging college guys. Remember how everyone was boinking each other in college? Well, it's now a LOT more liberal, especially in the age of Tinder. She's probably letting them bareback her and taking it CIM or CIP or whatever. Second, if she's older, then she probably already has or had an STD, like HPV, given that she's sexually liberal, and given that she's on SA. Third, it'll be a buzz kill for her. Fourth, trying to remain anonymous is key. Getting an STD test done together may jeopardize that anonymity. Eventually, you're not going to marry the SB, so it'll be best if you can disappear with confidence when the time is right. I made the mistake of revealing my identity with a few SBs and they created huge drama for me later on, and I still continue to suffer a little bit because of it.[/QUOTE]STD testing papers are feel good measures, the fact that someone has paper to show you now means nothing about what that person did the night before or few days before, even six month before because it takes time to get symptoms. I have had many sugar babies in NYC and I have used SA when I travel throughout USA and overseas. Majority of the arrangements I had bareback, I don't see everyone but whoever I see I use my best judgement (I avoid, junkies and other glaring issues, no anal) and take the risk when I play, been doing that for decades, BBBJ, BBFS all the way.
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[QUOTE=AddisDude;2447553]STD testing papers are feel good measures, the fact that someone has paper to show you now means nothing about what that person did the night before or few days before, even six month before because it takes time to get symptoms. I have had many sugar babies in NYC and I have used SA when I travel throughout USA and overseas. Majority of the arrangements I had bareback, I don't see everyone but whoever I see I use my best judgement (I avoid, junkies and other glaring issues, no anal) and take the risk when I play, been doing that for decades, BBBJ, BBFS all the way.[/QUOTE]In which cities did you have the best success when you were traveling? In terms of price, easy availability, number and quality of girls, etc. What sort of price range have you experienced between cities.
Always good to compare notes, especially because I did not see your posts in this thread before.
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[QUOTE=Pessimist;2447622]In which cities did you have the best success when you were traveling? In terms of price, easy availability, number and quality of girls, etc. What sort of price range have you experienced between cities.
Always good to compare notes, especially because I did not see your posts in this thread before.[/QUOTE]I have been lurking around but I do participate here and there. I live in the North East USA, so NYC, Philadelphia and DC area is within driving distance for me. NYC has a lot of broke aspiring actors models that need side hustle to pay rent. I had the best success in Miami and Los Angeles. I am not sure why but a lot of girls willing to come to your hotel room if you start talking to them few days in advance of your travel. I have used it in Toronto, London and very good time.
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Brazil
[QUOTE=Pessimist;2447409]How much do those girls cost, hourly or whatever basis? I remember from reading your posts that you like Brazilian girls, is that right? I typically go for skinny white girl look.[/QUOTE]It really depends on the girl. You can contact them on WhatsApp to see what they are asking for. One reason I like Brazil is due to the diversity in the looks of the girls. From blondes to brunettes to redheads, and from black to white to everything in between: [URL]https://www.riosexsite.com/[/URL].
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SA girls on lockdown and unemployment
I'm currently in Central Florida and I've had exceptional success on SA in the past. All girls and all BBBJWS and BBFS even BBFSCIP and for the most part relatively cheap as in an average of $150 per encounter but a few a little higher. Usually takes a few weeks of chatting to get them trusting and ready to meet has been my experience and then it's off to the races. All of my experiences have been with real college girls and local industry workers such as restaurants, hotels, theme parks etc and just heard about it from their friends and want some extra cash. However it seems dry now because obviously all the girls are scared to come outside because of the covid and I am sensing that the lack of urgency for money is missing because of the stimulus checks and unemployment money is more than they were making anyways. The girls are chatting but still holding strong on sitting at home. What are you guys feeling about the effects of the stimulus on the SA girls in the USA?
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[QUOTE=AddisDude;2447787]I have been lurking around but I do participate here and there. I live in the North East USA, so NYC, Philadelphia and DC area is within driving distance for me. NYC has a lot of broke aspiring actors models that need side hustle to pay rent. I had the best success in Miami and Los Angeles. I am not sure why but a lot of girls willing to come to your hotel room if you start talking to them few days in advance of your travel. I have used it in Toronto, London and very good time.[/QUOTE]Thank you. What sort of price ranges have you seen / paid in these various cities? I assume you did PPM in all your travels, and perhaps a combination of PPM and longer term allowance near your home base?
Interesting that you have used SA significantly in the larger, megalopolis type areas. Have you tried it in smaller cities, say half a million to 1. 5 million type cities? In my experience, they are less expensive and girls are less demanding. Of course, 80%+ of my girls have been in my home base and surroundings and I am lucky that it is a relatively inexpensive area and I still make decent money and that helps.
I lived in LA for a couple of short years a while ago but that was in my pre-SA days. Back then I had less money. I wish I had more in those days. LA does indeed have some super hot chicks -- something about all the aspiring actress pretty girls who flock to the city and end up working as strippers, waitresses or in porn, LOL.
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[QUOTE=SmallWorld21;2447863]I'm currently in Central Florida and I've had exceptional success on SA in the past. All girls and all BBBJWS and BBFS even BBFSCIP and for the most part relatively cheap as in an average of $150 per encounter but a few a little higher. Usually takes a few weeks of chatting to get them trusting and ready to meet has been my experience and then it's off to the races. All of my experiences have been with real college girls and local industry workers such as restaurants, hotels, theme parks etc and just heard about it from their friends and want some extra cash. However it seems dry now because obviously all the girls are scared to come outside because of the covid and I am sensing that the lack of urgency for money is missing because of the stimulus checks and unemployment money is more than they were making anyways. The girls are chatting but still holding strong on sitting at home. What are you guys feeling about the effects of the stimulus on the SA girls in the USA?[/QUOTE]Interesting to know, thanks for sharing. I had quite a bit of success in Miami, Ft Laud, Palm Beach regions on business travels. Orlando is strictly theme park related travels being the family man I'm LOL, but never thought of it as a mongering destination. Who would have thought all those princess costume chicks were banging sugar daddies in the night? I had a couple of encounters with Tampa Bay Area strippers who were quite hot though. I can believe that prices are low over there, as it is an inexpensive area. Still, $150 for BBFS sounds pretty attractive. Congrats on your success there.
As for stimulus, my experience is actually the opposite. Many girls sound desperate. I am being careful and not meeting anyone at the moment, but one girl just asked me earlier today if I wanted to meet tonight. In the last week alone, 3 girls wanted to meet and at reasonable prices.
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[QUOTE=Pessimist;2447864]Thank you. What sort of price ranges have you seen / paid in these various cities? I assume you did PPM in all your travels, and perhaps a combination of PPM and longer term allowance near your home base?
Interesting that you have used SA significantly in the larger, megalopolis type areas. Have you tried it in smaller cities, say half a million to 1. 5 million type cities? In my experience, they are less expensive and girls are less demanding. Of course, 80%+ of my girls have been in my home base and surroundings and I am lucky that it is a relatively inexpensive area and I still make decent money and that helps.
I lived in LA for a couple of short years a while ago but that was in my pre-SA days. Back then I had less money. I wish I had more in those days. LA does indeed have some super hot chicks -- something about all the aspiring actress pretty girls who flock to the city and end up working as strippers, waitresses or in porn, LOL.[/QUOTE]I travel for work so most of my travels are big cities, so unfortunately no experience in smaller cities. My price range here in the USA ranges from 150 to 250 I have paid 300 rarely, I start chatting ahead of time and meet them at cafe near my hotel and take it from there. Closer to home I have SBs rotating. When I do travel overseas where prostitution is legal, I don't bother turning any dating app, tinder, SA or any of that stuff. I meet girls at clubs, stripclubs, street and take them back to hotel.
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[QUOTE=SmallWorld21;2447863]I'm currently in Central Florida and I've had exceptional success on SA in the past. All girls and all BBBJWS and BBFS even BBFSCIP and for the most part relatively cheap as in an average of $150 per encounter but a few a little higher. Usually takes a few weeks of chatting to get them trusting and ready to meet has been my experience and then it's off to the races. All of my experiences have been with real college girls and local industry workers such as restaurants, hotels, theme parks etc and just heard about it from their friends and want some extra cash. However it seems dry now because obviously all the girls are scared to come outside because of the covid and I am sensing that the lack of urgency for money is missing because of the stimulus checks and unemployment money is more than they were making anyways. The girls are chatting but still holding strong on sitting at home. What are you guys feeling about the effects of the stimulus on the SA girls in the USA?[/QUOTE]It will take some time to feel the economic pain so give it time.
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[QUOTE=AddisDude;2448072]I travel for work so most of my travels are big cities, so unfortunately no experience in smaller cities. My price range here in the USA ranges from 150 to 250 I have paid 300 rarely, I start chatting ahead of time and meet them at cafe near my hotel and take it from there. Closer to home I have SBs rotating. When I do travel overseas where prostitution is legal, I don't bother turning any dating app, tinder, SA or any of that stuff. I meet girls at clubs, stripclubs, street and take them back to hotel.[/QUOTE]It is actually a very good price for you to do ppms at 150 to 250 in big cities. Definitely better than what I have done, as my range is 200 to 300 with a handful exceeding 300. Perhaps I have been too soft. Congratulations for getting such nice deals!
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150-250 in big US cities?
[QUOTE=AddisDude;2448072]I travel for work so most of my travels are big cities, so unfortunately no experience in smaller cities. My price range here in the USA ranges from 150 to 250 I have paid 300 rarely, I start chatting ahead of time and meet them at cafe near my hotel and take it from there. Closer to home I have SBs rotating. When I do travel overseas where prostitution is legal, I don't bother turning any dating app, tinder, SA or any of that stuff. I meet girls at clubs, stripclubs, street and take them back to hotel.[/QUOTE]This price range is quite a surprise. But I don't doubt you at all. It's just that in my experience, the price was around 500 for big cities and around 250 in smaller cities. Can I ask which big cities you have gotten this price range? The only big city that I can think of where this price range is possible is Las Vegas, which is a place with a ton of supply. Also, what kind of girls do you go after? From what I understand, black girls and older girls can often be had for less money. Thanks, man.
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2448202]This price range is quite a surprise. But I don't doubt you at all. It's just that in my experience, the price was around 500 for big cities and around 250 in smaller cities. Can I ask which big cities you have gotten this price range? The only big city that I can think of where this price range is possible is Las Vegas, which is a place with a ton of supply. Also, what kind of girls do you go after? From what I understand, black girls and older girls can often be had for less money. Thanks, man.[/QUOTE]It aggravates me because I travel overseas and 150 gets you a 10 in Brazil or Dominican republic that will translate to 500 in the States. It requires work, I have paid $150 & $300 but those are rare even for me but 200-250 is my standard rate for girls around 7-8 ish, if a girl asks for 350, she will settle for 300 or 250 but she will be offended if you offer her 150 or 200, you feel it out when have your conversation. There is a huge misconception about big cities being expensive, in fact, one time I traveled to smaller town in for work near Knoxville Tennessee and I paid the most there, less to pick from. Big cities are flooded with SB's, NYC is saturated with broke aspiring models who need to see multiple SD's just to pay their monthly dates. Having said that, paying what they asked for makes your life easier and you have less headache, negotiation can be a turn off for her and walk away, I could have paid that extra 50 or 100 which I can afford but blew a deal arguing because I was being stubborn. It is not the best strategy but it works for me, I have monthly budget for fun and I like to see several girls, I don't plan on spending it on one girl I don't care what she looks like. As the saying goes, the only thing better than pussy is "new pussy".
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[QUOTE=Pessimist;2448152]It is actually a very good price for you to do ppms at 150 to 250 in big cities. Definitely better than what I have done, as my range is 200 to 300 with a handful exceeding 300. Perhaps I have been too soft. Congratulations for getting such nice deals![/QUOTE]$150 is rare, I have had few but most is 200-250 for me, of course they will ask for more but you can talk them down. Usually, call them, talk for a bit, tell them where you are staying and in town for business, if she asks for $300, I will say well I am in town for a business I would to see if you $250, most of the time they cave in. Don't negotiate over text because they will say no because they might not even think you are real or serious.
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Nice
[QUOTE=AddisDude;2448279]$150 is rare, I have had few but most is 200-250 for me, of course they will ask for more but you can talk them down. Usually, call them, talk for a bit, tell them where you are staying and in town for business, if she asks for $300, I will say well I am in town for a business I would to see if you $250, most of the time they cave in. Don't negotiate over text because they will say no because they might not even think you are real or serious.[/QUOTE]That's a good negotiation tactic, not to bargain over text. I agree with you 100%.
As for the prices. I'm usually in the 300 euro range, sometimes less. I've seen plenty ask for 500 euro but that's crazy. That's a bit too high, and for what? They are not offering a service that you can't find elsewhere. LOL.
In the US (not much experience), I've offered 600 for the week and this worked. I was able to see her 3 times. I know this comes out to 200/ meet, but keep in mind she asked for 400 per meeting. LOL. It's like once you throw in a "deal", they get distracted by the possibility of something more long term (as they should).
But hearing that you guys are getting 150 - 200 in Miami, Ft Lauderdale, etc is quite interesting. Something I need to look into. Keep the good info flowing.
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My experiences
I've been a member for many years on this site, here are my experiences. Hits and flops.
1. Student in Bangalore, India. Wanted to shop. 19 years old. Short and a little chubby but cute face. Great in the bed but greedy as fuck. Didn't meet her again. Shopping damages - 350 $.
2. An graffiti artist in Berlin 23 years. Amazing girl. Too good in the bed. Was with me for 2 days. 500 euros. She said I can give whatever I pleased. Still in touch after it's been many years. I'll definitely meet her again.
3. A girl in Delhi, India 21 years. Make up artist by profession. Met her multiple times and bare backed her too.
4. A techie in Hyderabad. Crazy experience. Amazing attitude. It was a long term relationship and did bareback many times. She found a BF and we decided to split.
5. Student in Prague 19 yrs old. Met her for lunch. Good attitude and she doesn't fuck on first date. Flaked later. No damages other than lunch.
6. German girl in Prague 24 years. Straight to the bed. Hot in the bed. Damage 150.
7. Czech girl in Hyderabad, India 23 years. Only platonic, had to pay for drinks and dinner many times but not high maintenance. Gave her a MacBook as a parting gift when she was leaving India. She was in tears. Went to Prague to meet her and we are still in touch.
8. A photography intern in Mumbai 21 years old. Super cute but shy in the bed. High maintenance for an LTR. Split up with her after 2-3 months.
9. Currently in touch with a Ukrainian hottie 23 years old. Super cute. We were supposed to meet in Barcelona during the Easter Break. Covid spoiled the plans. We will meet once this lockdown eases.
Have many more experiences and I'll take some more space and time to post.
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South American girls
Has anyone had South American SBs? I mean those who live in South America, not the US ones. How much money do Brazilian, Colombian, Venezuelan, Argentinean girls ask for? Given that the average salary in Venezuela is (was?) 33 $, I think that they should be very cheap.
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Great post. Any experience in bayarea? Typical costs.
[QUOTE=SfoCowboy;2448607]I've been a member for many years on this site, here are my experiences. Hits and flops.
1. Student in Bangalore, India. Wanted to shop. 19 years old. Short and a little chubby but cute face. Great in the bed but greedy as fuck. Didn't meet her again. Shopping damages - 350 $.
2. An graffiti artist in Berlin 23 years. Amazing girl. Too good in the bed. Was with me for 2 days. 500 euros. She said I can give whatever I pleased. Still in touch after it's been many years. I'll definitely meet her again.
3. A girl in Delhi, India 21 years. Make up artist by profession. Met her multiple times and bare backed her too.
4. A techie in Hyderabad. Crazy experience. Amazing attitude. It was a long term relationship and did bareback many times. She found a BF and we decided to split.
5. Student in Prague 19 yrs old. Met her for lunch. Good attitude and she doesn't fuck on first date. Flaked later. No damages other than lunch.
6. German girl in Prague 24 years. Straight to the bed. Hot in the bed. Damage 150..[/QUOTE]
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I have experience only in US and W EU. To the question posed by Darth Coder, I am wondering if there is always a neat relationship between local economy and wages and SB prices. Addis Dude says below that he has paid less in big cities than what I paid in my not so big home city. Sfo Cowboy says he paid $350 to a babe in India, which is one of the poorest countries with per capita income of $200 a month. In fact, Sfo says he paid more to his babes in India than what he paid out in Europe. So, to your question Darth, I am not sure if there is a direct correlation -- paid sex prices do seem to vary based on multiple factors including supply / demand, and not strictly based on local wages. I imagine why someone paid $350 in India -- which is a high enough price even in US and for which I can session with a lovely model type young blonde -- is because so few women may be willing to fuck for money in India, especially in the educated, middle class range.
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[QUOTE=DarthCoder;2448612]Has anyone had South American SBs? I mean those who live in South America, not the US ones. How much money do Brazilian, Colombian, Venezuelan, Argentinean girls ask for? Given that the average salary in Venezuela is (was?) 33 $, I think that they should be very cheap.[/QUOTE]I was planning a trip to Med. Colombia this year until the virus halted everything.
From doing research on the Columbia forum & chatting with guys on there, a solid 7/8 girl would be high end $100 US for todo la noche or all night. Pretty much after the first meet up, it was all bareback sex too. Condoms are an afterthought. I'm fixed & unless god is in a miracle mood, I'm not having any more kids. I spent a bit of time as I want a better experience with a instagram type model and am willing to pay for it, from my research $100 to $200 per day will get you a solid 8.5 to 9 girl in Columbia.
For Brazil, Sao Paulo looks like the best option for model quality girls. I'd go to Scandelo, skip seeking arrangements & do a girl in the club, get her # and turn her into a SB. High end for a model quality girl is around 800 reals, with the exchange rate at 5.5 reals to $'s this is around $150 US. I've seen bareback mentioned quite a bit there, so imagine condoms are optional for a lot of the girls. Most of the girls working at Scandelo are not hard hookers but just smoking hot Brazilian girls who are trying to make ends meet.
Also it depends on your language skills, I'm conversationally fluent in Spanish & have lived in Spain for several years, so for me language in Colombia isn't a problem.
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I used to live in the Bay Area and I found someone outside of SA; a student. Lasted a long time and we remain friends now.
[QUOTE=SamPeter71;2448725]Great post. Any experience in bayarea? Typical costs.[/QUOTE]
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The cost was on the higher side in India as it is difficult to get a well educated girl for a low price. Also, I spend time with the girls. Evening dinner and drinks till the morning. No rush at all.
[QUOTE=Pessimist;2448735]I have experience only in US and W EU. To the question posed by Darth Coder, I am wondering if there is always a neat relationship between local economy and wages and SB prices. Addis Dude says below that he has paid less in big cities than what I paid in my not so big home city. Sfo Cowboy says he paid $350 to a babe in India, which is one of the poorest countries with per capita income of $200 a month. In fact, Sfo says he paid more to his babes in India than what he paid out in Europe. So, to your question Darth, I am not sure if there is a direct correlation -- paid sex prices do seem to vary based on multiple factors including supply / demand, and not strictly based on local wages. I imagine why someone paid $350 in India -- which is a high enough price even in US and for which I can session with a lovely model type young blonde -- is because so few women may be willing to fuck for money in India, especially in the educated, middle class range.[/QUOTE]
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[QUOTE=DarthCoder;2448612]Has anyone had South American SBs? I mean those who live in South America, not the US ones. How much money do Brazilian, Colombian, Venezuelan, Argentinean girls ask for? Given that the average salary in Venezuela is (was?) 33 $, I think that they should be very cheap.[/QUOTE]I had a Peruvian girl as my SB for my entire time in Peru on business. I paid her 100 USD for every weekend spent with me in Cusco. It was great. We are still in touch a few years later. She would travel all the way from Arequipa to Cusco to stay with me. I paid the travel cost too and for all meals and stuff if we ate out but that's expected. If we stayed in she cooked for me, cleaned my AirBNB apartment. One weekend she even brought a friend along for a threesome. I paid the friend the same. They were both 21 year old university students and spoke fluent English, my Spanish is non existent!
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[QUOTE=SamPeter71;2448725]Great post. Any experience in bayarea? Typical costs.[/QUOTE]It can vary. In San Francisco I hooked up with an Irish art student for 300 USD for the night including having lunch at a restaurant, then back to my hotel for a fun evening. I ordered sushi using Uber Eats, bought champagne from the shop next door (shockingly for a supposed 4 star hotel they didn't have alcohol in their room service! We fucked. She slept and then left early in the morning, not staying for breakfast. Was fun but not a great lay so didn't see her again. Had another arrangement with a really hot American-Iranian girl and we were meant to meet at a famous steakhouse but she didn't show up. She had wanted 500. I had agreed because she was very hot. I was also in negotiations with a really stunning blonde stripper who was from Texas I think originally but in SF. We first agreed on 500 but on the day she was to come to stay 24 hours she called and said she wanted 800. I didn't want to pay that much so I respectfully declined. Other really beautiful girls in the Bay Area quoted a 1000-2000 USD for a weekend and some wanted a monthly allowance. SBs can be fun and part of it is in the chase itself. I have to say some girls in the Bay Area are absolutely stunning -- what I call 11's. But they know it and their demands reflect it!
I think with Covid19 SBs might be the best approach at the moment.
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Bay Area
[QUOTE=SamPeter71;2448725]Great post. Any experience in bayarea? Typical costs.[/QUOTE]Most of my SA experiences were in the Bay Area. Typical PPM was $500. Perhaps not coincidentally, this was also the going rate for the relatively high-end escorts in SF. I guess the PPM SBs quickly figured out market prices. Many of the gals are looking for long term arrangements, probably because their rent is a high fixed cost. For long term arrangements, they are looking for 3 k minimum per month, for 3-4 meets per month. To me, that was ridiculous. And it takes a lot of search time, especially with the Bay Area gals. From what many of these gals told me, there's a lot of young very rich techie nerds in the Bay Area, and they are super horny and have absolutely no problems paying SBs. So, there's a lot of competition for an SD. If you expand your search to within 25 or 50 miles of the Bay Area, you will find some gems. But prices are still high, and of course the travel time becomes ridiculous. Also, keep in mind that the cost of living is high in the Bay Area, so all SBs will try to get as much money as possible. I got lucky a few times though. You have to find the ones that are relatively new to SA, but this advice probably applies to SBs everywhere. I tried SA in other USA Cities and found the price points to be lower and finding SBs to be easier. So, I think the Bay Area is just one of the anomalies in terms of difficulty and pricing. With pricing, don't forget that restaurants, uber, and hotels are all more expensive in the Bay Area as well. Finally, there's plenty of college gals on there. I met several Berkeley gals. But they treated the relationship too formally for my taste. And, they took longer to meet, maybe because there's a lot of interest out there for them. And, they also flaked a LOT, which is not surprising, as college students are super busy with social activities, and there's so much stuff to do in the Bay Area, after all, it's not like they go to school on a traditional college campus (like Penn State or Michigan State or Texas Tech etc.) where there is almost nothing to do. So, I eventually gave up on the college gals in the Bay Area. And besides, I actually found the gals that were at least past their mid-20s to be more fun, as we had more to talk about.
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2448844]Most of my SA experiences were in the Bay Area. Typical PPM was $500. Perhaps not coincidentally, this was also the going rate for the relatively high-end escorts in SF. I guess the PPM SBs quickly figured out market prices. Many of the gals are looking for long term arrangements, probably because their rent is a high fixed cost. For long term arrangements, they are looking for 3 k minimum per month, for 3-4 meets per month. To me, that was ridiculous. And it takes a lot of search time, especially with the Bay Area gals. From what many of these gals told me, there's a lot of young very rich techie nerds in the Bay Area, and they are super horny and have absolutely no problems paying SBs. So, there's a lot of competition for an SD. If you expand your search to within 25 or 50 miles of the Bay Area, you will find some gems. But prices are still high, and of course the travel time becomes ridiculous. Also, keep in mind that the cost of living is high in the Bay Area, so all SBs will try to get as much money as possible. I got lucky a few times though. You have to find the ones that are relatively new to SA, but this advice probably applies to SBs everywhere. I tried SA in other USA Cities and found the price points to be lower and finding SBs to be easier. So, I think the Bay Area is just one of the anomalies in terms of difficulty and pricing. With pricing, don't forget that restaurants, uber, and hotels are all more expensive in the Bay Area as well. Finally, there's plenty of college gals on there. I met several Berkeley gals. But they treated the relationship too formally for my taste. And, they took longer to meet, maybe because there's a lot of interest out there for them. And, they also flaked a LOT, which is not surprising, as college students are super busy with social activities, and there's so much stuff to do in the Bay Area, after all, it's not like they go to school on a traditional college campus (like Penn State or Michigan State or Texas Tech etc.) where there is almost nothing to do. So, I eventually gave up on the college gals in the Bay Area. And besides, I actually found the gals that were at least past their mid-20s to be more fun, as we had more to talk about.[/QUOTE]My own first hand data points from SF bay area are in sync with your description and price points you enumerated.
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[QUOTE=SfoCowboy;2448818]The cost was on the higher side in India as it is difficult to get a well educated girl for a low price. Also, I spend time with the girls. Evening dinner and drinks till the morning. No rush at all.[/QUOTE]You can get low price only when you search for a long time with patience and hit and trial. Regarding your Delhi girl experience was she a Muslim girl by any chance. Because I also know of a similar profile with same profession.
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Thanks for sharing. I think we may be better off taking one-week trip to Bogota / Medellin every month with this kind of money.
[QUOTE=Midwestern;2448844]Most of my SA experiences were in the Bay Area. Typical PPM was $500. Perhaps not coincidentally, this was also the going rate for the relatively high-end escorts in SF. I guess the PPM SBs quickly figured out market prices. Many of the gals are looking for long term arrangements, probably because their rent is a high fixed cost. For long term arrangements, they are looking for 3 k minimum per month, for 3-4 meets per month. To me, that was ridiculous. And it takes a lot of search time, especially with the Bay Area gals. From what many of these gals told me, there's a lot of young very rich techie nerds in the Bay Area, and they are super horny and have absolutely no problems paying SBs. So, there's a lot of competition for an SD. If you expand your search to within 25 or 50 miles of the Bay Area, you will find some gems. But prices are still high, and of course the travel time becomes ridiculous. Also, keep in mind that the cost of living is high in the Bay Area, so all SBs will try to get as much money as possible. I got lucky a few times though. You have to find the ones that are relatively new to SA, but this advice probably applies to SBs everywhere. I tried SA in other USA Cities and found the price points to be lower and finding SBs to be easier. So, I think the Bay Area is just one of the anomalies in terms of difficulty and pricing. With pricing, don't forget that restaurants, uber, and hotels are all more expensive in the Bay Area as well. Finally, there's plenty of college gals on there. I met several Berkeley gals. But they treated the relationship too formally for my taste. And, they took longer to meet, maybe because there's a lot of interest out there for them. And, they also flaked a LOT, which is not surprising, as college students are super busy with social activities, and there's so much stuff to do in the Bay Area, after all, it's not like they go to school on a traditional college campus (like Penn State or Michigan State or Texas Tech etc.) where there is almost nothing to do. So, I eventually gave up on the college gals in the Bay Area. And besides, I actually found the gals that were at least past their mid-20s to be more fun, as we had more to talk about.[/QUOTE]
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No. She is not a Moslem girl.
[QUOTE=Gamer76;2448874]You can get low price only when you search for a long time with patience and hit and trial. Regarding your Delhi girl experience was she a Muslim girl by any chance. Because I also know of a similar profile with same profession.[/QUOTE]
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More experiences
1. Medico from Hyderabad, India. In for the experience. From a very well off family. Partied and had little fun. No sex. Did shopping once. Damages 150 $. Went out on multiple dinner dates.
2. Exchange student in Hyderabad India, had a good time, only shopping. Did multiple times and also bareback. She moved back to Boston, we did a trip to Vegas last May. Only in for fun and some shopping. No serious damages.
3. Back packer from the Netherlands, bought flight tickets from Mumbai to Bangalore. Showed her the city, took her out for dinner etc. Two days of unlimited fun without any allowance. Great experience.
4. Columbian girl in Berlin, she was a student. Flaked after dinner.
5. Student from Mumbai, India, got her placed in a job after studies. Amazing time in the bed, bareback many times. Shopping damages only. About 200-300 $ depending on what she buys.
More to come some other time. Cheers!
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I met this amazing student when I lived in the Bay Area, not through SA. I think I was too lucky to find her. Damages pretty low. Had her for more than 15 months. We are great friends. Used to give her 1000 $ a month and shopping sometimes. Great in looks and bed. Did bareback only after 2-3 months. We remain great friends. She works for a large tech company now. I spend my weekends with her whenever I visit there. She doesn't take any allowance now. She is kind of nerdy. Too many stories to write about here.
[QUOTE=Midwestern;2448844]Most of my SA experiences were in the Bay Area. Typical PPM was $500. Perhaps not coincidentally, this was also the going rate for the relatively high-end escorts in SF. I guess the PPM SBs quickly figured out market prices. Many of the gals are looking for long term arrangements, probably because their rent is a high fixed cost. For long term arrangements, they are looking for 3 k minimum per month, for 3-4 meets per month. To me, that was ridiculous. And it takes a lot of search time, especially with the Bay Area gals. From what many of these gals told me, there's a lot of young very rich techie nerds in the Bay Area, and they are super horny and have absolutely no problems paying SBs. So, there's a lot of competition for an SD. If you expand your search to within 25 or 50 miles of the Bay Area, you will find some gems. But prices are still high, and of course the travel time becomes ridiculous. Also, keep in mind that the cost of living is high in the Bay Area, so all SBs will try to get as much money as possible. I got lucky a few times though. You have to find the ones that are relatively new to SA, but this advice probably applies to SBs everywhere. I tried SA in other USA Cities and found the price points to be lower and finding SBs to be easier. So, I think the Bay Area is just one of the anomalies in terms of difficulty and pricing. With pricing, don't forget that restaurants, uber, and hotels are all more expensive in the Bay Area as well. Finally, there's plenty of college gals on there. I met several Berkeley gals. But they treated the relationship too formally for my taste. And, they took longer to meet, maybe because there's a lot of interest out there for them. And, they also flaked a LOT, which is not surprising, as college students are super busy with social activities, and there's so much stuff to do in the Bay Area, after all, it's not like they go to school on a traditional college campus (like Penn State or Michigan State or Texas Tech etc.) where there is almost nothing to do. So, I eventually gave up on the college gals in the Bay Area. And besides, I actually found the gals that were at least past their mid-20s to be more fun, as we had more to talk about.[/QUOTE]
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[QUOTE=SamPeter71;2448954]Thanks for sharing. I think we may be better off taking one-week trip to Bogota / Medellin every month with this kind of money.[/QUOTE]Brazil is looking pretty tasty right now the exchange rate has soared to 5. 83 reals to the dollar, the dollar is at a all time high. A super model type girl in Scandalo is 800 reals for all night.
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Prices in US
[QUOTE=Pessimist;2448854]My own first hand data points from SF bay area are in sync with your description and price points you enumerated.[/QUOTE]I find a strong correlation between escort pricing on P411 and what SBs charge. Of course the SB is two to four hours (or more) and the escort is for just an hour for the same price.
Here is a sampling. Each price a different girl:
Detroit $300 (could have gotten lower — first go at this).
LA $300 $400.
Miami $300.
Nashville $200 300 300.
NYC $400 400 400 (but 2 of 3 were disappointed—$500 is more right).
Las Vegas $400 400 400.
I would say the Detroit girl, the $200 Nashville girl and the $300 LA girl were second tier. All the rest top shelf.
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Wow! That's really great to hear. On my bucket list!
[QUOTE=SeekingHead;2449129]Brazil is looking pretty tasty right now the exchange rate has soared to 5. 83 reals to the dollar, the dollar is at a all time high. A super model type girl in Scandalo is 800 reals for all night.[/QUOTE]
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My learnings from sugar dating -.
1. These girls need money, the more you give the more they ask. Especially in a long term relationship.
2. If you find one who isn't greedy hold on to her; it won't last forever but 1-2 years is a great time frame.
3. Take time in finding the right girl, don't bargain on cash. My request to those girls. I don't bargain your allowance but I ask for more time. Most of the girls agree to spend more time. Some might cut the allowance instead.
4. When you get into long term, be clear to the girl that you'the pay ppm for the first few meetings. Once your comfortable only then you go for long term.
5. I mostly dated students; could guide them in their careers. They fall for it big time.
6. Nerdy girls are the best.
[QUOTE=Steve9696;2449167]I find a strong correlation between escort pricing on P411 and what SBs charge. Of course the SB is two to four hours (or more) and the escort is for just an hour for the same price.
Here is a sampling. Each price a different girl:
Detroit $300 (could have gotten lower first go at this).
LA $300 $400.
Miami $300.
Nashville $200 300 300.
NYC $400 400 400 (but 2 of 3 were disappointed$500 is more right).
Las Vegas $400 400 400.
I would say the Detroit girl, the $200 Nashville girl and the $300 LA girl were second tier. All the rest top shelf.[/QUOTE]
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Do most of you guys lie about your income and what happens when the girls go over to your house and see your Toyota in the driveway? How do you keep with appearances if you don't have them? It seems to me like both of you are trying to con each other KNOWING exactly what you are doing.
Has Covid affected SA in a positive or negative way?
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I quoted less than what I earn. Also, I used to take a good car but not a fancy car. Try to rent one. Never took them home on first dates even though I'm single. A Lexus would be good enough. I avoided taking my personal car many times.
In India, I hire a cab with a driver for 8 hours to chauffeur me around. Can rates are pretty low. I never had issues with looks. It's about how well you're groomed. I always insist on a video call before meeting for the first time. If not I avoid.
[QUOTE=Artisttyp;2449180]Do most of you guys lie about your income and what happens when the girls go over to your house and see your Toyota in the driveway? How do you keep with appearances if you don't have them? It seems to me like both of you are trying to con each other KNOWING exactly what you are doing.
Has Covid affected SA in a positive or negative way?[/QUOTE]
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Yes and.
[QUOTE=SfoCowboy;2449171]My learnings from sugar dating -.
1. These girls need money, the more you give the more they ask. Especially in a long term relationship.
2. If you find one who isn't greedy hold on to her; it won't last forever but 1-2 years is a great time frame.
3. Take time in finding the right girl, don't bargain on cash. My request to those girls. I don't bargain your allowance but I ask for more time. Most of the girls agree to spend more time. Some might cut the allowance instead.
4. When you get into long term, be clear to the girl that you'the pay ppm for the first few meetings. Once your comfortable only then you go for long term.
5. I mostly dated students; could guide them in their careers. They fall for it big time.
6. Nerdy girls are the best.[/QUOTE]Some good points in here. All of mine have been ST so I don't have any LT experience to bring to the table. I do think the girls look more for $$ than time. One of my very best hotties was in London. She wanted 400 I think. And I had said 200. (pounds). She came back and said 250 and I'll stay as long as you like. Hitting 250 was critically important to her. Her time was not. This is very different from an escort where literally time is money.
Girls in their early twenties SAY they want advice. But they don't really. They are free spirits and anytime you give her advice that might be a difficult choice she will just get pouty for you acting like her dad. She wants a sophisticated gentleman boyfriend but not one who gives them tough love like their dad. Even a pen pal SB I have who is platonic so I don't mind giving her tough love she totally ignores it and then suffers later. LOL. I did edit her resume a bunch, though, which she appreciated and accepted. It was a train wreck. LOL.
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Lies we tell on our SA profiles
[QUOTE=Artisttyp;2449180]Do most of you guys lie about your income and what happens when the girls go over to your house and see your Toyota in the driveway? How do you keep with appearances if you don't have them? It seems to me like both of you are trying to con each other KNOWING exactly what you are doing.
Has Covid affected SA in a positive or negative way?[/QUOTE]
Usual lies that SDs tell:
(1) height (by an inch or two, especially guys under 6 feet tall).
(2) income / wealth.
(3) photo (photo is usually a few years old.
(4) age (only if we are in our 50's and beyond).
(5) location (usually, we pick a nearby location.
(6) body type.
Usual lies that SBs tell:
(1) education (about half of them do not have as much education as they claim).
(2) photo (heavily photo shopped).
(3) location (they usually pick a nearby location).
(4) smoking (those addicted to cigarettes or pot usually just they are light smokers).
(5) age (if in 30's, will shave a few years, if in 40's, will shave almost a decade).
(6) body type.
But the gals really do NOT care what you drive, how you dress, what your home looks like, etc. All they care about is what you will pay them and what kind of time you can show them (if you can take them out to nice restaurants, hotels, outings).
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Converting ST to LT arrangements
[QUOTE=SfoCowboy;2449171]My learnings from sugar dating -.
1. These girls need money, the more you give the more they ask. Especially in a long term relationship.
2. If you find one who isn't greedy hold on to her; it won't last forever but 1-2 years is a great time frame.
3. Take time in finding the right girl, don't bargain on cash. My request to those girls. I don't bargain your allowance but I ask for more time. Most of the girls agree to spend more time. Some might cut the allowance instead.
4. When you get into long term, be clear to the girl that you'the pay ppm for the first few meetings. Once your comfortable only then you go for long term.
5. I mostly dated students; could guide them in their careers. They fall for it big time.
6. Nerdy girls are the best.[/QUOTE]All good points, but point (4) is tricky. If you are paying 500 PPM, and then later convert to LT arrangement, both of you will be doing the mental accounting all the time. She will try to achieve an average of at least 500 per date, while you are trying to get the average below 500 per date. Also, she will be more prone to canceling dates, usually at the last minute. Well, this is what happened to me, at least. The only times that LT arrangements worked out for me were when we had instant and genuine chemistry. When they like you so much that they want to see you all the time, and don't want you to leave. In other words, it felt like a real GFE from the start. And so they became LT from the start and financial arrangements were not never explicitly discussed (most of the time, but not always). One gal gave me a key to her place after I spent the night on our first date.
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[QUOTE=Artisttyp;2449180]Do most of you guys lie about your income and what happens when the girls go over to your house and see your Toyota in the driveway? How do you keep with appearances if you don't have them? It seems to me like both of you are trying to con each other KNOWING exactly what you are doing.
Has Covid affected SA in a positive or negative way?[/QUOTE]A few things:
A. Girl seeing my house will be a disaster beyond repair. Will never happen to me. I am fiercely protective of my identity and if a girl will somehow figure me out and knocks on my door I will refuse to talk and call police or take my gun out and tell her to get the fuck out of my property as she is trespassing.
B. There is very little correlation between net worth and the car one drives. The senior partners in my small firm all are worth more than $10 M and two are above $25 M and none drive anything fancy. One recently bought a lower end Tesla and he was sheepish about it.
I personally drive a $20 grand car but I said this before, it costs me $60 grand a year for my kids' private school. We spend our money how we choose to. I could not give a flying fuck what people think of me most of the time because I already have a lot of financial security and very comfortable in my own skin and don't need to impress a girl that I am paying to fuck.
I cut my stated net worth on the site to less than half, although to be honest if my wife finds this and drags me to court it will indeed be cut more than half. In fact I falsified pretty much every piece of info I listed on the site.
I never had a sugar babe who cared about net worth anyway. They are getting ppm or sometimes a weekly allowance. They know we are not getting married. I make it very clear upfront that a relationship is out of question.
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[QUOTE=Pessimist;2449243]A few things:
A. Girl seeing my house will be a disaster beyond repair. Will never happen to me. I am fiercely protective of my identity and if a girl will somehow figure me out and knocks on my door I will refuse to talk and call police or take my gun out and tell her to get the fuck out of my property as she is trespassing.
B. There is very little correlation between net worth and the car one drives. The senior partners in my small firm all are worth more than $10 M and two are above $25 M and none drive anything fancy. One recently bought a lower end Tesla and he was sheepish about it.
I personally drive a $20 grand car but I said this before, it costs me $60 grand a year for my kids' private school. We spend our money how we choose to. I could not give a flying fuck what people think of me most of the time because I already have a lot of financial security and very comfortable in my own skin and don't need to impress a girl that I am paying to fuck.
I cut my stated net worth on the site to less than half, although to be honest if my wife finds this and drags me to court it will indeed be cut more than half. In fact I falsified pretty much every piece of info I listed on the site.
I never had a sugar babe who cared about net worth anyway. They are getting ppm or sometimes a weekly allowance. They know we are not getting married. I make it very clear upfront that a relationship is out of question.[/QUOTE]I have a net worth over a million & I had a 2001 Volkswagen Passat as a daily driver till the AC died in Savannah in 2018. I still miss that car as it was a blast to drive, I had a the 5 speed manual model with leather, bought it brand new in 2001.
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[QUOTE=Pessimist;2449243]
A. Girl seeing my house will be a disaster beyond repair. Will never happen to me. I am fiercely protective of my identity and if a girl will somehow figure me out and knocks on my door I will refuse to talk and call police or take my gun out and tell her to get the fuck out of my property as she is trespassing.
I never had a sugar babe who cared about net worth anyway. They are getting ppm or sometimes a weekly allowance. They know we are not getting married. I make it very clear upfront that a relationship is out of question.[/QUOTE]Sigh. Pessimist, you are living in a dream world. You get a phone number, license plate, and you can check out anyone on line. I bet just from your license plate that I could find out how much you paid for your car, where you live, and how much you paid for your house in a matter of minutes. Your privacy is an illusion these days.
I never had a problem with a SB and my home life ever. The main thing is that you find women who are trustworthy and believe it or not, most are. The last thing most women want to do is fuck up a relationship. To be honest, the women I was after were so hot getting a rich, successful guy was not a problem for any of them. That is what you should be after, the most selective women there are. They have so many options it is ridiculous.
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2449212]
But the gals really do NOT care what you drive, how you dress, what your home looks like, etc. All they care about is what you will pay them and what kind of time you can show them (if you can take them out to nice restaurants, hotels, outings).[/QUOTE]Yes, MW, I agree. The only ones who are not like that are the ones who are naive.
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So do most encounters happen in hotels?
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[QUOTE=Artisttyp;2449298]So do most encounters happen in hotels?[/QUOTE]Are you talking about the first encounter? If so, then how would that work? You book the hotel before you meet? This would be ideal, so that you guys can just waltz into the room after a few drinks. BUT, what if there's no chemistry when you meet, or what if she does not even show up? This happens often for first meetings, and then it means you booked the room for nothing. Or, you could book the hotel after chemistry is established. If so, then you will have to book the hotel on an app (or at the front desk) and then pick up the keys at the front desk. But then the gal will instantly know your real identity when you guys are checking in to get the keys. And besides, the whole process of checking into a hotel takes a while, so it is kind of a buzz kill. So this is why I just do a meet and greet for the first meeting. To establish chemistry. I will boink them later. There have been numerous occasions where I got lucky on the first encounter and we just went back to her place. BTW, if I were traveling, then yeah, make the encounter at the hotel. You are staying there anyway. So, there is no waste if she does not show or you don't like each other.
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[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2449291]Sigh. Pessimist, you are living in a dream world. You get a phone number, license plate, and you can check out anyone on line. I bet just from your license plate that I could find out how much you paid for your car, where you live, and how much you paid for your house in a matter of minutes. Your privacy is an illusion these days.
I never had a problem with a SB and my home life ever. The main thing is that you find women who are trustworthy and believe it or not, most are. The last thing most women want to do is fuck up a relationship. To be honest, the women I was after were so hot getting a rich, successful guy was not a problem for any of them. That is what you should be after, the most selective women there are. They have so many options it is ridiculous.[/QUOTE]Yeah, I agree, it is impossible to hide your identity. I have said this before. I have been super careful, like using taxis, paying with cash, using a app with for calling and texting, etc. , but gals can still find my identity. I know this to be a fact because some viewed me on LinkedIn. I even asked a few of them how they found my true identity, and they usually replied that it wasn't difficult. But most gals never found my true identity. It's not that they are trustworthy. Instead, it's that most of them don't give a shit who I really am.
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[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2449291]I never had a problem with a SB and my home life ever.[/QUOTE]Let me guess, you are not married.
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Good point. It's tricky, yes. We need to negotiate clearly and if we see any sign of drop outs in the last minute we know that the time is up. It's better we cut our losses and exit. This is where our judgement comes in.
Once I finalise an arrangement I block the girl on sa. I have a different ID with a different city to check if the girl is still active on the site. If she is still active that means she is still wanting a better deal. We need to take an appropriate decision accordingly. I cut one girl in 2 months as I knew she was hunting for a better deal. I got out of it. We need to handle it appropriately.
Personally, I prefer a young exclusive students. They take time to finalise but once done they have little time to hunt for a better deal. Nerdy girls like to keep their grades up. The girl I had in California used to bring her books and laptop and study at my place over the weekends. I'm single and she used to have a spare key of my home. I knew her full identity and her character before I did this. This was after 6 months or so into the arrangement. She was a gem. Complete girl friend material.
Also, California is expensive for this. I felt that Latina students in Barcelona were economical.
[QUOTE=Midwestern;2449235]All good points, but point (4) is tricky. If you are paying 500 PPM, and then later convert to LT arrangement, both of you will be doing the mental accounting all the time. She will try to achieve an average of at least 500 per date, while you are trying to get the average below 500 per date. Also, she will be more prone to canceling dates, usually at the last minute. Well, this is what happened to me, at least. The only times that LT arrangements worked out for me were when we had instant and genuine chemistry. When they like you so much that they want to see you all the time, and don't want you to leave. In other words, it felt like a real GFE from the start. And so they became LT from the start and financial arrangements were not never explicitly discussed (most of the time, but not always). One gal gave me a key to her place after I spent the night on our first date.[/QUOTE]
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A burner phone with no apps other than WhatsApp and Uber help. I try my best to hide true identity but as I'm single it's not going to make a difference to me if they know my identity. I still need my privacy. No one found my real identity as far as I know unless I voluntarily shared.
[QUOTE=Midwestern;2449308]Yeah, I agree, it is impossible to hide your identity. I have said this before. I have been super careful, like using taxis, paying with cash, using a app with for calling and texting, etc. , but gals can still find my identity. I know this to be a fact because some viewed me on LinkedIn. I even asked a few of them how they found my true identity, and they usually replied that it wasn't difficult. But most gals never found my true identity. It's not that they are trustworthy. Instead, it's that most of them don't give a shit who I really am.[/QUOTE]
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I rarely chased models / aspiring models for LTR. There was this amazing girl from Mumbai, a model I met and we hung out a few times for drinks. She agreed for 1500 $ a month LTR. 6-8 meets a month with each meeting lasting from evening till next morning or over a weekend. She agreed for 250 $ a night for the first 4 meets. Somehow she became greedy and told me that she needs money and wants a monthly allowance to be given in advance. I politely dropped off. Girls who cannot keep their commitment are a strict no go.
My personal choice is students. Not 9/10 but more like 7/8.
[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2449291]Sigh. Pessimist, you are living in a dream world. You get a phone number, license plate, and you can check out anyone on line. I bet just from your license plate that I could find out how much you paid for your car, where you live, and how much you paid for your house in a matter of minutes. Your privacy is an illusion these days.
I never had a problem with a SB and my home life ever. The main thing is that you find women who are trustworthy and believe it or not, most are. The last thing most women want to do is fuck up a relationship. To be honest, the women I was after were so hot getting a rich, successful guy was not a problem for any of them. That is what you should be after, the most selective women there are. They have so many options it is ridiculous.[/QUOTE]
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[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2449291]Sigh. Pessimist, you are living in a dream world. You get a phone number, license plate, and you can check out anyone on line. I bet just from your license plate that I could find out how much you paid for your car, where you live, and how much you paid for your house in a matter of minutes. Your privacy is an illusion these days.
I never had a problem with a SB and my home life ever. The main thing is that you find women who are trustworthy and believe it or not, most are. The last thing most women want to do is fuck up a relationship. To be honest, the women I was after were so hot getting a rich, successful guy was not a problem for any of them. That is what you should be after, the most selective women there are. They have so many options it is ridiculous.[/QUOTE]Well, all I can say is that I have been on SA and other sugar sites for 4 years. A large majority of my arrangements, which have now reached several dozen girls in total in that time frame, are in my home city vicinity and less than 60 miles of me. I do drive my own car, sometimes have given a ride to some sugar babes in my car. Till now, my identity has not been blown. If someone figured me out, they never blurted it to me and for sure no one has knocked on my door step. If some girl wants to create mischief and trouble and makes the effort to track me down, perhaps she can. I don't deny it. Perhaps the other due diligence I do, the sense you have for girls which makes you weed out who could be such miscreants, is helping me. I would and't know, but so far I have been lucky or prudent or both. I am just saying that if ever a girl comes to my door step, that's what I will do, which is have zero dialog with her, slam the door, and either threaten or call the police. I also tend not to have extended very long term arrangements and there is only a minimal amount of emotional attachment on both sides. So, that may be another factor that's been helpful.
On these sites, we all have varying degrees of experience. I realize some people had their identity blown. I don't know how that happened, what they did and did not do, but you can't assume that everyone has the same experience. For some of us with families, identity protection is paramount. It may happen that we will have identity blown, but if we expect that identity will be compromised we will not even enter these arrangements. It is like, you know there is a danger of car accident every time you drive, but if you think the danger is almost a certainty in some specific area, you will avoid that area.
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[QUOTE=SfoCowboy;2449350]I rarely chased models / aspiring models for LTR. There was this amazing girl from Mumbai, a model I met and we hung out a few times for drinks. She agreed for 1500 $ a month LTR. 6-8 meets a month with each meeting lasting from evening till next morning or over a weekend. She agreed for 250 $ a night for the first 4 meets. Somehow she became greedy and told me that she needs money and wants a monthly allowance to be given in advance. I politely dropped off. Girls who cannot keep their commitment are a strict no go.
My personal choice is students. Not 9/10 but more like 7/8.[/QUOTE]Same thing happened to me, she was insulted that I would not pay her in advance, no way these girls are too crazy. She later asked to start the arrangement again, but was always asking for more or crazy demands.
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[QUOTE=Artisttyp;2449298]So do most encounters happen in hotels?[/QUOTE]Usually my first meet up with sex is in a hotel, this way if they are batshit crazy, they don't know where I live. First meet & greet, a couple of days later a dinner date, get a drink either at the hotel bar or someplace close, & then to the hotel room. After the first meetup, it's usually my house.
I like to host for a # of reasons.
1.) I don't live in a complete baller pad, but I have a 5 bedroom 4 k square foot house in the north Atlanta burbs, with a walkout basement, jacuzzi, & a king sized bed in my room.
2.) I like to smoke weed and have sex, I like to avoid risk while driving with weed as it's illegal in my state.
3.) When I pay her to leave after a few hours, I can go back upstairs to the bedroom & go to sleep, no 1/2 hour trip home.
4.) No 12 o'clock checkout, if I put a all nighter in with a girl.
The current girl is completely fine with this arrangement & this is what I look for.
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2449307]Are you talking about the first encounter? If so, then how would that work? You book the hotel before you meet? This would be ideal, so that you guys can just waltz into the room after a few drinks. BUT, what if there's no chemistry when you meet, or what if she does not even show up? This happens often for first meetings, and then it means you booked the room for nothing. Or, you could book the hotel after chemistry is established. If so, then you will have to book the hotel on an app (or at the front desk) and then pick up the keys at the front desk. But then the gal will instantly know your real identity when you guys are checking in to get the keys. And besides, the whole process of checking into a hotel takes a while, so it is kind of a buzz kill. So this is why I just do a meet and greet for the first meeting. To establish chemistry. I will boink them later. There have been numerous occasions where I got lucky on the first encounter and we just went back to her place. BTW, if I were traveling, then yeah, make the encounter at the hotel. You are staying there anyway. So, there is no waste if she does not show or you don't like each other.[/QUOTE]Good Info Thanks.
So when SEX does happen it is usually at her place or a hotel or do you ever bring an SA date back to your own home?
It seems like hotel cost plus date plus allowance is not too far off from taking a 3/4 day mongering trip eventually. Am I missing something?
I'd be willing to do something like 1 k per month. Maybe 1 session a week for an hour or two full service. Yes / No?
And what about Covid. Has it not ruined SA for the time being or has it evolved more since Covid?
Thanks.
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If you find a reliable girl in SA then it's safer in these covid times. If you're thinking just wham bam thank you mam then your best bet would be a mongering trip. I look for a GFE mostly. The SA girls are less fucked and you have better chances of having a good time in the bed. I've done bareback with many of the SA girls and I'd never do that with an escort. I've experienced FKKs and it's a cool concept for pick and fuck.
[QUOTE=Artisttyp;2449401]Good Info Thanks.
So when SEX does happen it is usually at her place or a hotel or do you ever bring an SA date back to your own home?
It seems like hotel cost plus date plus allowance is not too far off from taking a 3/4 day mongering trip eventually. Am I missing something?
I'd be willing to do something like 1 k per month. Maybe 1 session a week for an hour or two full service. Yes / No?
And what about Covid. Has it not ruined SA for the time being or has it evolved more since Covid?
Thanks.[/QUOTE]
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[QUOTE=Artisttyp;2449401]Good Info Thanks.
So when SEX does happen it is usually at her place or a hotel or do you ever bring an SA date back to your own home?
It seems like hotel cost plus date plus allowance is not too far off from taking a 3/4 day mongering trip eventually. Am I missing something?
I'd be willing to do something like 1 k per month. Maybe 1 session a week for an hour or two full service. Yes / No?
And what about Covid. Has it not ruined SA for the time being or has it evolved more since Covid?
Thanks.[/QUOTE]I have written about Corona and the impact it has had on Sugar babe attitudes in this thread.
$1 K per month is not a whole lot, especially if you expect a weekly fuck. If you can meet the girl at your own place, it is possible. Perhaps if you can snag some girls as Addis Dude did for $150, it is possible. In my experience, 200 to 300 has been more common. If you have to spend any money on hotels, it cuts into the budget for the girl. Of course, this also depends on who is the girl. 20-25 age group slender white girls with pretty faces command a high premium. If you are seeking Latino, Black girls, or older girls, or not such model looking types, you can stretch your budget. I have to say Asians in the US tend to have inflated expectations and Never had any Indian girls but SFO experience kinda makes sense to me as a Indian girls do tend to have princess attitude to sex.
Find a good girl, try her a couple of times and then ask her for a monthly arrangement at $1 K. Tell her that you are at the limit of your budget. If she declines, try someone else.
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Thank You for all the responses. An interesting thread indeed.
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[QUOTE=Pessimist;2449428]I have written about Corona and the impact it has had on Sugar babe attitudes in this thread.
$1 K per month is not a whole lot, especially if you expect a weekly fuck. If you can meet the girl at your own place, it is possible. Perhaps if you can snag some girls as Addis Dude did for $150, it is possible. In my experience, 200 to 300 has been more common. If you have to spend any money on hotels, it cuts into the budget for the girl. Of course, this also depends on who is the girl. 20-25 age group slender white girls with pretty faces command a high premium. If you are seeking Latino, Black girls, or older girls, or not such model looking types, you can stretch your budget. I have to say Asians in the US tend to have inflated expectations and Never had any Indian girls but SFO experience kinda makes sense to me as a Indian girls do tend to have princess attitude to sex.
Find a good girl, try her a couple of times and then ask her for a monthly arrangement at $1 K. Tell her that you are at the limit of your budget. If she declines, try someone else.[/QUOTE]Allowances vary greatly depending upon where you live. My current girl is $1200 a month & I see her usually 2 x a week for 3 to 5 hours, it's like having a girlfriend come over. She is a 25 year old white, grad student, 5'1 about 130 lbs, cute a solid 7. She wouldn't be my first pick at a bar but I would take her home every night with no complaints. I used to live in Savannah Ga. & was in Jacksonville quite a bit for work, $150 to 200 ppm was pretty standard for a 6/7 girl. A solid 7/8 college aged girl was $200 to $250. I had a solid 9 girl who was only 144 cm tall & 40 kg, she would have been a solid 9. 5 if she was 152 cm tall, I did one ppm at $400 with her. Complete GFE all bareback, we had sex 2 x for around 3 hours. I immediately scooped her up on a $2 k a month allowance where she was basically a girlfriend for 6 months.
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[QUOTE=Artisttyp;2449401]Good Info Thanks.
So when SEX does happen it is usually at her place or a hotel or do you ever bring an SA date back to your own home?
It seems like hotel cost plus date plus allowance is not too far off from taking a 3/4 day mongering trip eventually. Am I missing something?
I'd be willing to do something like 1 k per month. Maybe 1 session a week for an hour or two full service. Yes / No?
And what about Covid. Has it not ruined SA for the time being or has it evolved more since Covid?
Thanks.[/QUOTE]It is easier for me because I travel, so always I have hotel room, I have conversation in advance, book a meeting at cafe next to my hotel and off to business in my room. Dinner, bull shitting about future prospect is very important, if she doesn't see potential then she will try to get the max she can immediately out of you. Dinner date first time only, after that just book the room by the hour and do your deed, keep in mind you always have negotiation power, she needs money to pay her bills you can always masturbate and go to sleep.
My experience Black, Latina / Spanish and white girls (no experience with Asian / Indian), personal preference I like girls with some ass to smack on. I avoid girls with inflated sense of entitlement demanding $$$ to be seen next to you. I can afford it but I refuse to do it. I am here for the experience of the variety not to prove a point to someone for banging some delusional self-absorbed chick. I see multiple girls my rule is girls who are pleasant and who really need the help looks 7-8 ish. I got a 19 year old gorgeous latina girl, who doesn't go out much was extremely grateful for a nice dinner and 150 dollars because that is how much she makes working all day at her minimum wage job. If you offer a girl $1200 a month to see her twice a week, that is essentially $150 per session. Like I said that is very rare 90% of my payment is 200-300. DO not text a random SB offering 150-200 per session most will be offended and won't respond back to you. However when the women meet you and discuss and see the potential for monthly arrangement they will accept your offer. I have a budget for, sugar relationship, strip clubs, and other entertainment I usually pay 1200/1500 a month per SB, I spend somewhere between 5,000 to 7,000 a month for this hobby, very discipline always on budget.
Everyone is different but I like variety because I always get bored and would want to sample new girl no matter how great she looks. As the saying goes, the only thing better than pussy is new pussy.
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[QUOTE=AddisDude;2449508]It is easier for me because I travel, so always I have hotel room, I have conversation in advance, book a meeting at cafe next to my hotel and off to business in my room. Dinner, bull shitting about future prospect is very important, if she doesn't see potential then she will try to get the max she can immediately out of you. Dinner date first time only, after that just book the room by the hour and do your deed, keep in mind you always have negotiation power, she needs money to pay her bills you can always masturbate and go to sleep.
My experience Black, Latina / Spanish and white girls (no experience with Asian / Indian), personal preference I like girls with some ass to smack on. I avoid girls with inflated sense of entitlement demanding $$$ to be seen next to you. I can afford it but I refuse to do it. I am here for the experience of the variety not to prove a point to someone for banging some delusional self-absorbed chick. I see multiple girls my rule is girls who are pleasant and who really need the help looks 7-8 ish. I got a 19 year old gorgeous latina girl, who doesn't go out much was extremely grateful for a nice dinner and 150 dollars because that is how much she makes working all day at her minimum wage job. If you offer a girl $1200 a month to see her twice a week, that is essentially $150 per session. Like I said that is very rare 90% of my payment is 200-300. DO not text a random SB offering 150-200 per session most will be offended and won't respond back to you. However when the women meet you and discuss and see the potential for monthly arrangement they will accept your offer. I have a budget for, sugar relationship, strip clubs, and other entertainment I usually pay 1200/1500 a month per SB, I spend somewhere between 5,000 to 7,000 a month for this hobby, very discipline always on budget..[/QUOTE]Sounds similar to my situation, I was traveling quite a bit last year for work, this year I'm in Atlanta & there are plenty of clients here so no travel. I only have a $3 k a month budget which is plenty to play on around this area, like you I am very disciplined on my budget. I never touch my savings, always hit my $1500 a month savings contribution & have my 401 k maxed at $19 k a year, I have over $800 k in savings & retirement while in my 40's, plus a house paid off.
What part of the world are you in?
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Atlanta
[QUOTE=SeekingHead;2449632]Sounds similar to my situation, I was traveling quite a bit last year for work, this year I'm in Atlanta & there are plenty of clients here so no travel. I only have a $3 k a month budget which is plenty to play on around this area, like you I am very disciplined on my budget. I never touch my savings, always hit my $1500 a month savings contribution & have my 401 k maxed at $19 k a year, I have over $800 k in savings & retirement while in my 40's, plus a house paid off.
What part of the world are you in?[/QUOTE]Other than SA in Atlanta, what are the other options? I used to go to Atlanta a lot for work. I mostly used rub maps. Found some great AMPS. But on my most recent trip, I had difficulty finding AMPS that offered FS. And when I did find them, they were asking for ridiculous tip amounts. Or is SA the best option in Atlanta? Man, there are so many hot women in Atlanta.
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SA or P411
[QUOTE=Midwestern;2449748]Other than SA in Atlanta, what are the other options? I used to go to Atlanta a lot for work. I mostly used rub maps. Found some great AMPS. But on my most recent trip, I had difficulty finding AMPS that offered FS. And when I did find them, they were asking for ridiculous tip amounts. Or is SA the best option in Atlanta? Man, there are so many hot women in Atlanta.[/QUOTE]As discussed SA is the best option by far in the US if:
You have time to search.
You have time for a date.
Are not objectionable in some way.
The only other real alternative I know is P411. Of course you have to be a member. And I think they closed that up with all the sesta / fosta nonsense. I can browse ATL for you if you like. Just send me a PM.
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[QUOTE=AddisDude;2449508]I usually pay 1200/1500 a month per SB, I spend somewhere between 5,000 to 7,000 a month for this hobby, very discipline always on budget.
Everyone is different but I like variety because I always get bored and would want to sample new girl no matter how great she looks. As the saying goes, the only thing better than pussy is new pussy.[/QUOTE]What is SB?
I usually spend around $1500 a month down in Tijuana. That would be my budget.
I have no problem with lower tier girls if the service is good.
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[QUOTE=WindAngel;2449312]Let me guess, you are not married.[/QUOTE]LOL. Good guess. I was married, happily divorced now. I tried to cover my tracks, but the ex hunted everything down.
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[QUOTE=Artisttyp;2449812]What is SB?
I usually spend around $1500 a month down in Tijuana. That would be my budget.
I have no problem with lower tier girls if the service is good.[/QUOTE]SB = sugar baby.
A good SB arrangement is basically a younger girl you are paying to be your part time girlfriend. In all of my successful arrangements there was a connection where I liked the girl & wanted to spend time outside of sex with her. A typical night with my current girl is she comes over for a late dinner around 7:30, we have dinner & wine. After dinner we transition to the jacuzzi for some relaxation, smoke some weed, BBBJ, come back inside, drinks, weed, move to bedroom & uncovered sex for about 2 hours. I kick her out around 1 o'clock.
The advantages of a SB vs. A provider are, most SB's are the girl next door struggling with rent. This means a very low risk for STD's & sex is bareback. Every girl I have been with for more than a couple of times is really into the sex & it's a GFE. The experience is much better than a escort who is looking to turn you over as quick as possible in the US.
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2449748]Other than SA in Atlanta, what are the other options? I used to go to Atlanta a lot for work. I mostly used rub maps. Found some great AMPS. But on my most recent trip, I had difficulty finding AMPS that offered FS. And when I did find them, they were asking for ridiculous tip amounts. Or is SA the best option in Atlanta? Man, there are so many hot women in Atlanta.[/QUOTE]As for full service massage options, Atlanta surprisingly is a desert. If you become a regular at a Korean "KAMP" then it's on the menu but it's $250 usually.
I have a girl for $150 I go to for a light massage plus awesome BBBJ, she will swallow if you ask, takes her time for regulars. Most of the BBBJ's I get are around 30 minutes, I'll eat a edible about 90 minutes beforehand so I'm pretty stoned when I see her. Downside is looks & she had a double mastectomy due to breast cancer. So if your looking for a GFE type experience its not there but for the price & exceptional BBBJ I keep going back.
Strip Clubs Tattletales & Follies are usually full service in the club & you can grab numbers for out of club. I've found strippers to be good experiences if your willing to party & spend money on party supplies. I have had a few strippers I met in the club where I have developed friendships with who are down to go out for a night on the town for $$$ & you picking up the bar tab & admission to dance clubs.
Follies is the closet thing to Sodom and Gomorrah in the US right now, weed is smoked openly in the club, couch dances are $10 per song where you go sit in the back area. Jr is encouraged to make an appearance & most girls will give you a handjob to completion. VIP is usually $152 for 15 minutes, BBBJ is a normal event. If I'm in the area around lunch, I'll text a few girls to see if they working, setup a club "date" then eat on buford highway, then run over to Follies after lunch for my date. I'll usually hit follies about every 6 months for a baller night & bring about $600 which is good for a couple of bangs in the club, plus drinks & weed.
Tattletales much more upscale than Follies, Follies is much more hood, Not the decor & overall decor of the club, but the clientele. Tattletales is much more white suburbia where if you smoked weed openly you would be bounced ASAP. Daytime is king for action in the club, only downside are way too many well off geriatric regulars who will drop $300 to 500 a visit. So most good looking girls have regulars and getting their attention & keeping it requires a bit of stripper game & $$s. Once you have taken the same girl a couple of times to VIP & dropped $300 on the girls, get the digits so you can setup dates in the club with them, then you are good. Once you are in with one girl she has a 1/2 dozen friends who need assistance also. I did this quite a bit in Savannah as there was no in the club action, but almost all girls were good outside the club. One of my first Sugar babies was a stripper who I would go see in the club for a couple of drinks & a VIP dance.
SA is by far the best option in Atlanta, for between $200 to $350 ppm you can get a 6 to solid 8 girl next door. When I was traveling to Atlanta I had a solid 8 girl who I would meet when in town for $250, GFE we used condoms the first couple of times, but on the 3rd date I slipped it in without a condom & rawdogged her, never used a condom with her again.
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Motivated by this thread I have been fooling around
I am in Los Angeles. I have received quotes from two top tier girls (at least if their photos are accurate but both had a bunch of them). One asked for $500 and the other $700 for a hook up.
I got involved in a text exchange with a thirty year old. She asked me what I like. I told her. She replied, "But missionary would be good for us, right?" I told her I liked oral better. Then she left the text conversation. I getting some amusement out of it. Many college age girls want to do platonic video chats which doesn't excite me.
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[QUOTE=BigBossMan;2449921]I am in Los Angeles. One asked for $500 and the other $700 for a hook up.
[/QUOTE]Those are pretty much standard escort prices in most big American cities.
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[QUOTE=Artisttyp;2449924]Those are pretty much standard escort prices in most big American cities.[/QUOTE]I just got quoted $400 after I offered $250 to a 23-year old.
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[QUOTE=Artisttyp;2449812]What is SB?
I usually spend around $1500 a month down in Tijuana. That would be my budget.
I have no problem with lower tier girls if the service is good.[/QUOTE]Hey Artisttyp.
What would that translate to in Peru? $500 or less?
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Interesting experience bro. I'the never do it bareback first time. May be there is always a first time.
[QUOTE=SeekingHead;2449899]SB = sugar baby.
A good SB arrangement is basically a younger girl you are paying to be your part time girlfriend. In all of my successful arrangements there was a connection where I liked the girl & wanted to spend time outside of sex with her. A typical night with my current girl is she comes over for a late dinner around 7:30, we have dinner & wine. After dinner we transition to the jacuzzi for some relaxation, smoke some weed, BBBJ, come back inside, drinks, weed, move to bedroom & uncovered sex for about 2 hours. I kick her out around 1 o'clock.
The advantages of a SB vs. A provider are, most SB's are the girl next door struggling with rent. This means a very low risk for STD's & sex is bareback. Every girl I have been with for more than a couple of times is really into the sex & it's a GFE. The experience is much better than a escort who is looking to turn you over as quick as possible in the US.[/QUOTE]
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I found the prices in USA to be on the higher side compared to many other countries.
Europe is good. I tried in Barcelona, Berlin, Prague, Vienna etc. Cheapest in Barcelona in my experience. I'm going to try Belarus and Ukraine next year.
[QUOTE=BigBossMan;2449921]I am in Los Angeles. I have received quotes from two top tier girls (at least if their photos are accurate but both had a bunch of them). One asked for $500 and the other $700 for a hook up.
I got involved in a text exchange with a thirty year old. She asked me what I like. I told her. She replied, "But missionary would be good for us, right?" I told her I liked oral better. Then she left the text conversation. I getting some amusement out of it. Many college age girls want to do platonic video chats which doesn't excite me.[/QUOTE]
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[QUOTE=SfoCowboy;2449939]I found the prices in USA to be on the higher side compare to many other countries.
Europe is good. I tried in Barcelona, Berlin, Prague, Vienna etc. Cheapest in Barcelona in my experience. I'm going to try Belarus and Ukraine next year.[/QUOTE]How much is it in Barcelona? How about the rest of Europe?
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[QUOTE=SeekingHead;2449632]Sounds similar to my situation, I was traveling quite a bit last year for work, this year I'm in Atlanta & there are plenty of clients here so no travel. I only have a $3 k a month budget which is plenty to play on around this area, like you I am very disciplined on my budget. I never touch my savings, always hit my $1500 a month savings contribution & have my 401 k maxed at $19 k a year, I have over $800 k in savings & retirement while in my 40's, plus a house paid off.
What part of the world are you in?[/QUOTE]I live in Delaware, driving distance from NYC, Philadelphia to DC, I drive up and down and play the entire north east field. I own rental properties all over managed by property management companies and I work for consulting firm which requires me to I travel throughout USA and international.
I am a big saver, I don't have bad habits, not a big spender or have any other issues except for I have diagnosed myself a sex addict but I enjoy it.
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[QUOTE=DownUnderMonger;2449934]Hey Artisttyp.
What would that translate to in Peru? $500 or less?[/QUOTE]That would depend what my expenses are. Out of the $1500 at least $300 or 400 goes to just getting set up apartment / transport Etc. I guess some months I climb into the 2 k range but I am definitely getting a lot of strange for that money.
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[QUOTE=Artisttyp;2449942]That would depend what my expenses are. Out of the $1500 at least $300 or 400 goes to just getting set up apartment / transport Etc. I guess some months I climb into the 2 k range but I am definitely getting a lot of strange for that money.[/QUOTE]LOL just the pussy costs. We'll all have different setting up costs. Where are you staying for $300-$400 a month? I'm budgeting $1000.
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I spent a weekend with a Latina chick. From Friday afternoon till late Sunday. All for 300 euros. 7-8/10; a student from Argentina. 21 years old. Repeated her again. This time bare back. Same cost. Food and drinks for the two days costed extra. I think anywhere between 200-500 euros you'd get a good chic for a weekend. I usually don't negotiate for short term. I met the girl on a Tuesday for drinks. Kissed and touched at no cost. Found chemistry and then did her twice. When I go back to Bcn I'll meet her again.
In Berlin it was 500 for the weekend...Prague was 200 for an evening and night..Vienna was 300..I should have spent more time scouting for a better deal but I didnt have time..
The girls in Ukraine and Belarus will spend a whole week for 5-7 hundred dollars...thats the sense Im getting talking to them...English is an issue..they dont speak it much. But I found 3-4 girls with whom Im talking and I hope to travel sometime to both these countries...
[QUOTE=DownUnderMonger;2449940]How much is it in Barcelona? How about the rest of Europe?[/QUOTE]
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This is the best time to find something at a reasonable cost. No travellers or tourists means less demand for these chics. Talk to them smoothly and you'the get them at a good price. Till business and leisure travel picks up, it will be like this. Try picking Latina students. Must be struggling for rents.
[QUOTE=BigBossMan;2449921]I am in Los Angeles. I have received quotes from two top tier girls (at least if their photos are accurate but both had a bunch of them). One asked for $500 and the other $700 for a hook up.
I got involved in a text exchange with a thirty year old. She asked me what I like. I told her. She replied, "But missionary would be good for us, right?" I told her I liked oral better. Then she left the text conversation. I getting some amusement out of it. Many college age girls want to do platonic video chats which doesn't excite me.[/QUOTE]
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[QUOTE=SfoCowboy;2449954]This is the best time to find something at a reasonable cost. No travellers or tourists means less demand for these chics. Talk to them smoothly and you'the get them at a good price. Till business and leisure travel picks up, it will be like this. Try picking Latina students. Must be struggling for rents.[/QUOTE]I am not smooth at this point. I don't have my patter down. I usually tell the prostitutes exactly what I want up front in Europe and South America. If they don't want to do it, I can move on to the next one. I don't think the more casual SA women think of themselves as prostitutes. I want to move things forward so I don't waste time but I think I am moving too fast and wasting time anyway because I am losing them. I also close to 70 so I am usually out of their profile range. Even the ones that are willing date older usually say 60 in their profile but they will usually respond to me. My pool might be smaller than a guy who is fifty. It might be worth it too spend the $400 and get my rocks off and slow down. I was in Spain when the everything closed so it has been two months of porn.
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Slow Down A Bit
[QUOTE=BigBossMan;2449959]I am not smooth at this point. I don't have my patter down. I usually tell the prostitutes exactly what I want up front in Europe and South America. If they don't want to do it, I can move on to the next one. I don't think the more casual SA women think of themselves as prostitutes. I want to move things forward so I don't waste time but I think I am moving too fast and wasting time anyway because I am losing them. I also close to 70 so I am usually out of their profile range. Even the ones that are willing date older usually say 60 in their profile but they will usually respond to me. My pool might be smaller than a guy who is fifty. It might be worth it too spend the $400 and get my rocks off and slow down. I was in Spain when the everything closed so it has been two months of porn.[/QUOTE]There are definitely pros on SA. But the non pros — which I like better — you cannot treat like a pro. Never discuss sex for money. Nor any specific sex act. Establish a rapport and then see if they want to meet up. I usually then say here is how I see our date going. And describe a nice dinner or drinks and say because we like each other we'the want some private time. They generally say that sounds good. I then ask if they had a particular gift in mind. And then you are negotiating the price of the total date having never said the words sex or money. The final $$ should NOT be done on SA In my opinion. Always by text.
The word PPM. Pay per meet. Is commonly used and if you can tell a girl is a pro or semi-pro you can discuss PPM without offending. I again do this offline. SA ostensibly discourages PPM even tho that is mostly what is going on.
And BTW $700 is too high anywhere in the US IMO but $500 is not out of the question in a top tier city with a top tier girl.
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[QUOTE=DownUnderMonger;2449945]LOL just the pussy costs. We'll all have different setting up costs. Where are you staying for $300-$400 a month? I'm budgeting $1000.[/QUOTE]I keep a little fuck pad down in Mexico for $200 a month. It cuts down a lot on hotel costs.
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One of the terms I use for sex is adult time. 99% of all women get what you want but like the fact you don't say sex as it cheapens them.
ASAP move off of SA & to text, I use the line in my opening of why I want to move to text. I tell them Seeking arrangements monitors our messages & for privacy I want ot move to text. This works 95% of the time.
Whatsapp & google voice are the preferred texting methods. Get a burner google voice account, lately I've been thinking about getting a fake business card & fake linked in account.
Outside of NYC, LA, & San Francisco, these are the common rates.
$150 to 200 for a 5/6 MILF to mid 30's women.
$200 to 300 for a college or 20 something 6/7/8.
$300 to $400 for a 8/9.
$400 plus for a model type.
If your in a bigger city add $50 & if in a rural area subtract $25 to 50.
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[QUOTE=Steve9696;2449963]There are definitely pros on SA. But the non pros which I like better you cannot treat like a pro. Never discuss sex for money. Nor any specific sex act. Establish a rapport and then see if they want to meet up. I usually then say here is how I see our date going. And describe a nice dinner or drinks and say because we like each other we'the want some private time. They generally say that sounds good. I then ask if they had a particular gift in mind. And then you are negotiating the price of the total date having never said the words sex or money. The final $$ should NOT be done on SA In my opinion. Always by text.
The word PPM. Pay per meet. Is commonly used and if you can tell a girl is a pro or semi-pro you can discuss PPM without offending. I again do this offline. SA ostensibly discourages PPM even tho that is mostly what is going on.
And BTW $700 is too high anywhere in the US IMO but $500 is not out of the question in a top tier city with a top tier girl.[/QUOTE]Generally, I agree with most of what you said. I most definitely agree with the need to avoiding any mention of sex in messages, even indirectly or tangentially. I ask the girl what her allowance expectation is, and any sensible girl will realize that they don't get paid $200 or more for a meet unless sex is involved. I ask them what are they open to. The girls get the hint and tell me if they are "open to anything" or they want to be strictly platonic. In any case, this will get clarified during the face to face meet, and I never meet the girl for the first time at a hotel room for sex until we have had some in person chat / intro. When I am on the road in a different city, sometimes I have to violate this rule and it does make me somewhat uneasy tbh.
I used to mention ppm in my earlier years, but I have now cut out usage of ppm in my texts or SA messages. For one, it does suggest exchange of sex for money, even if I don't mention the word sex. Instead I say "weekly allowance" and later in clarify that meeting once a week. Of course it can imply we will meet every single week, but I will dispel that notion either during the meet and greet or in some other message.
My concern is not only about SA peering into my messages but also entrapment and if any LE is tracking my messages. I have not heard of any such incidents but pays to appear as harmless as possible.
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This is why I avoid SA in USA. LE can be crazy at times and you never know whom you're meeting.
[QUOTE=Pessimist;2450030]Generally, I agree with most of what you said. I most definitely agree with the need to avoiding any mention of sex in messages, even indirectly or tangentially. I ask the girl what her allowance expectation is, and any sensible girl will realize that they don't get paid $200 or more for a meet unless sex is involved. I ask them what are they open to. The girls get the hint and tell me if they are "open to anything" or they want to be strictly platonic. In any case, this will get clarified during the face to face meet, and I never meet the girl for the first time at a hotel room for sex until we have had some in person chat / intro. When I am on the road in a different city, sometimes I have to violate this rule and it does make me somewhat uneasy tbh.
I used to mention ppm in my earlier years, but I have now cut out usage of ppm in my texts or SA messages. For one, it does suggest exchange of sex for money, even if I don't mention the word sex. Instead I say "weekly allowance" and later in clarify that meeting once a week. Of course it can imply we will meet every single week, but I will dispel that notion either during the meet and greet or in some other message.
My concern is not only about SA peering into my messages but also entrapment and if any LE is tracking my messages. I have not heard of any such incidents but pays to appear as harmless as possible.[/QUOTE]
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[QUOTE=SfoCowboy;2450051]This is why I avoid SA in USA. LE can be crazy at times and you never know whom you're meeting.[/QUOTE]Haha, but you have written up your experiences in US on SA, right?
If you live in US, you don't have many choices. SA is good, because arrangement is a legally gray area. It is a one to one situation, you can gradually build up to sex and not necessarily in the first meet, and in that sense it is OK situation arguably. If you meet a girl a few times, exchange gifts, and have sex, well none of that is illegal. It is more of a problem if you negotiate a transaction of money for sex, and no other relationship. The idea is to include as much of other stuff as possible so that it does not appear to be a transaction only.
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[QUOTE=BigBossMan;2449959]I am not smooth at this point. I don't have my patter down. I usually tell the prostitutes exactly what I want up front in Europe and South America. If they don't want to do it, I can move on to the next one. I don't think the more casual SA women think of themselves as prostitutes. I want to move things forward so I don't waste time but I think I am moving too fast and wasting time anyway because I am losing them. I also close to 70 so I am usually out of their profile range. Even the ones that are willing date older usually say 60 in their profile but they will usually respond to me. My pool might be smaller than a guy who is fifty. It might be worth it too spend the $400 and get my rocks off and slow down. I was in Spain when the everything closed so it has been two months of porn.[/QUOTE]Majority of the SA girls are delusional prostitutes who have convinced themselves they are better than prostitutes, they also want validation, for some of them, it is important that they are spending time with someone of the perceived higher status is even more important as the money. Talk to them, make them feel good and tell them about future possibilities you can introduce them to the finer things in life they will fall for it.
The problem with that is it requires more time and that can be exhausting, sometimes it is better to deal with the honest prostitute and get it over with.
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[QUOTE=AddisDude;2450153]Majority of the SA girls are delusional prostitutes who have convinced themselves they are better than prostitutes, they also want validation, for some of them, it is important that they are spending time with someone of the perceived higher status is even more important as the money. Talk to them, make them feel good and tell them about future possibilities you can introduce them to the finer things in life they will fall for it.
The problem with that is it requires more time and that can be exhausting, sometimes it is better to deal with the honest prostitute and get it over with.[/QUOTE]You are so correct, I had some 6-7's, tell me that they deserved $8000-10 a month, completely delusional. The problem is there is many guys that never meet with the girls, they communicate strictly on-line, and can pretend to be anyone they want to be. The other issues is many guys can hang financially for a couple of weeks or months, they start throwing money around like candy. They worry about the ramifications when the funds run dry.
I am also surprised know one has issues with girls being completely wasted on drugs or alcohol. Most of the girls I dealt with either had a drug problem or issues with alcohol. It was real sad and I just can not stay up all nigh partying I have responsibilities.
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[QUOTE=SfoCowboy;2450051]This is why I avoid SA in USA. LE can be crazy at times and you never know whom you're meeting.[/QUOTE]I'm in the Atlanta area, what I do if I have any suspicion of a girl being LE, is to do the meet in greet in one county & then the actual date in another. I highly doubt LE is running a multi county task force targeting SD's. It would take way too many resources, most policing int he US regarding drugs & prostitution is done for news stories so the political masters of LE can show how tough on crime they are. Now there are drug investigations but these are done by task forces who are targeting major drug players. I just don't see task forces focusing on SD's.
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Verification
I found one for $250 and but then cancelled because she would not give any secondary verification. She would not even send a current selfie. What is the minimum that guys require to even meet someone?
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[QUOTE=AddisDude;2450153]Majority of the SA girls are delusional prostitutes who have convinced themselves they are better than prostitutes, they also want validation, for some of them.[/QUOTE]That is definitely true for the USA and for Mexico but for South America, I have found that is not the case.
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L. A or Hollywood
I've used SB in San Francisco but never in LA or Hollywood. Was wondering how much the going rate was in those places?
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[QUOTE=Sebastiane;2450198]I've used SB in San Francisco but never in LA or Hollywood. Was wondering how much the going rate was in those places?[/QUOTE]I paid $300 on a few occasions when I was in the area for business. Last time was 1.5 years ago.
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Small LA Sample
[QUOTE=Sebastiane;2450198]I've used SB in San Francisco but never in LA or Hollywood. Was wondering how much the going rate was in those places?[/QUOTE]I only have a couple datapoints. Both were straight to room kind of engagements. With just an hour or two notice. One was a 5-6 I'the say, (my 8 bailed last minute). She was $300 and two spectacular BBBJ with CIM swallow. Second was super cute 7-8. $400 but went CBJ and only allowed one shot. Still a pretty great time. Very cute. Banging body.
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Yes and No
[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2450164]You are so correct, I had some 6-7's, tell me that they deserved $8000-10 a month, completely delusional. The problem is there is many guys that never meet with the girls, they communicate strictly on-line, and can pretend to be anyone they want to be. The other issues is many guys can hang financially for a couple of weeks or months, they start throwing money around like candy. They worry about the ramifications when the funds run dry.
I am also surprised know one has issues with girls being completely wasted on drugs or alcohol. Most of the girls I dealt with either had a drug problem or issues with alcohol. It was real sad and I just can not stay up all nigh partying I have responsibilities.[/QUOTE]Some are delusional but I kick them to the curb. Case in point today. Nice Brazilian in Miami — super quick to "what are you looking for". She wanted $800 and wouldn't budge. Sao she had a lot of rent and bills. I wished her every success with someone else!
Haven't had any problems with drugs or drink. All solid girls who drink and enjoy it but no sloppy drunks or druggies. All good.
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I think focusing on negative experiences on SA misses the point. It is internet. In particular, it is a free subscription for anyone listed as girl seeking guy. Pretty much anyone can join with a fake email as girl seeking a guy. Swipe a few pics of pretty young blondes from somewhere and you are in business. I would not be shocked if a good percent of girls seeking guys were in fact a bunch of guys trying to fo a couple of easily duped poor slobs and relieve them of a few hundred. It does appear at least a few guys send money to girls they had never seen or met through Venmo. As the saying goes, a fool and his money are easily parted.
I said before but in my estimation only a fraction of girls, perhaps 20%, that are genuine, look their age and like their pics and not looking to cheat, not looking for platonic nor online only and will have sex for a fair price. Perhaps even less than 20%.
Focusing on "girls" quoting excess amounts is a waste of time and emotion. They are dime a dozen per day. Such girls don't even register in my mind. You should forget them immediately and block any negative emotion and move on.
Up to the time you actually meet the girl in person and spent some amount of time getting to know, it is purely a transaction. It is a transaction even after that but at least you can say to yourself "OK I like this girl". Till then, think you are talking to Siri or some artificial bot.
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Great posts, guys.
I just want to say thanks.
I have been seeing and repeating with about 9 independent escorts in the USA For the past several years, and I have long been bewildered by the countless comments on ISG over the years about the worthlessness of commercial sex in the USA.
All the providers I see in the USA are as hot and perform the same services as ladies I see outside the USA In fact, I find many of the services I want to actually be more easily available in the USA Than in some foreign locations, particularly some parts of Central and South America.
The only difference is that the USA Sex workers are significantly more expensive than their foreign sisters. That is of course a big deal to a lot of people, but I still like the comparisons to be of looks and services, letting everyone decide on price based on their own budget decisions.
USA Law enforcement has never focused on Sugar Babies or independent escorts that do screening.
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[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2450164]
I am also surprised know one has issues with girls being completely wasted on drugs or alcohol. Most of the girls I dealt with either had a drug problem or issues with alcohol. It was real sad and I just can not stay up all nigh partying I have responsibilities.[/QUOTE]I totally agree with you. There are many losers on SA. But this is why they are on SA. I had so many dates show up stoned, or didn't show up at all because they passed out from drinking. It was frustrating as hell. Some of the potheads that I met were super hot, and so I tried to make it work, but they always wanted to get high, so I eventually couldn't take it anymore. Same for the alcoholics. Always wanted to day drink, or drink to the point of passing out. Had to quit on them too eventually. I eventually just filtered out anyone that mentioned light smoker or smoker.
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SA gals versus pros
[QUOTE=AddisDude;2450153]Majority of the SA girls are delusional prostitutes who have convinced themselves they are better than prostitutes, they also want validation, for some of them, it is important that they are spending time with someone of the perceived higher status is even more important as the money. Talk to them, make them feel good and tell them about future possibilities you can introduce them to the finer things in life they will fall for it.
The problem with that is it requires more time and that can be exhausting, sometimes it is better to deal with the honest prostitute and get it over with.[/QUOTE]I totally agree with you, but I never viewed SA as another source of pros. I viewed SA as something different. If you find the right SB, then she will be like a genuine GF. Just got to pay them for their time, that's all. For pros that provide GFE, they are faking it. For the right SBs and situation, they will genuinely like you, but they just need you to help them with some cash.
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[QUOTE=BigBossMan;2450196]I found one for $250 and but then cancelled because she would not give any secondary verification. She would not even send a current selfie. What is the minimum that guys require to even meet someone?[/QUOTE]With this type of minimum verification, meeting them has many negative possibilities. Maybe her BF and friends will suddenly come out of nowhere and mug you. Maybe it's an LE sting. Maybe she's just a pro. Or maybe she is just ugly. For me, I need to see several pictures of her on her profile, and then I need to text back and forth with her for a bit, to establish a bit of a connection. When we finally do agree to a meeting, I always make sure it's a very public place, like a Starbucks or a bar on a main drag, or any place where there's something else for me to do if the date ends up being a waste of time.
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2450266]I totally agree with you. There are many losers on SA. But this is why they are on SA. I had so many dates show up stoned, or didn't show up at all because they passed out from drinking. It was frustrating as hell. Some of the potheads that I met were super hot, and so I tried to make it work, but they always wanted to get high, so I eventually couldn't take it anymore. Same for the alcoholics. Always wanted to day drink, or drink to the point of passing out. Had to quit on them too eventually. I eventually just filtered out anyone that mentioned light smoker or smoker.[/QUOTE]Well said, I have experienced all these and more. I am not sure If I even want to try again, I will wait for the quarantine to end in Mexico. I just do not feel like dealing with the drama again, with American chicks. Mexican and Euro chicks are so much more fun and enjoyable to be around.
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Just Chatting
[QUOTE=Midwestern;2450272]With this type of minimum verification, meeting them has many negative possibilities. Maybe her BF and friends will suddenly come out of nowhere and mug you. Maybe it's an LE sting. Maybe she's just a pro. Or maybe she is just ugly. For me, I need to see several pictures of her on her profile, and then I need to text back and forth with her for a bit, to establish a bit of a connection. When we finally do agree to a meeting, I always make sure it's a very public place, like a Starbucks or a bar on a main drag, or any place where there's something else for me to do if the date ends up being a waste of time.[/QUOTE]Wow. Maybe I am too trusting but so far so good. I just feel like chatting is mostly sufficient to establish intent. I've had two I suppose where they screwed up the meetup. One was so late as to not be worth it. And other "had car troubles" during the trip to meetup. But these were both local and therefore more prone to lameness. Otherwise I feel I have gotten truly real girls at very good prices. No bait and switch. No concerns about mugging or LE. Actually in London I accidentally left $2000 in cash in an envelope on the table by accident while showering. My two Columbian hotties completely ignored it. Unwise that. But yes the glass remains half full.
I am just the opposite of Midwestern. Never a coffee date. Always dinner or drinks and straight to room. Generally 2-4 hours total. Unless she stays the night. Which always warms my heart.
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The SB I had in USA wasn't through SA. I signed up for SA after I moved out of USA and was looking to have a similar experience to that I had with my sb. I visit USA for business and I keep meeting my old sb in SF. I'm not an American and I don't want to be on the other side of LE! Europe is a safe bet.
[QUOTE=Pessimist;2450137]Haha, but you have written up your experiences in US on SA, right?
If you live in US, you don't have many choices. SA is good, because arrangement is a legally gray area. It is a one to one situation, you can gradually build up to sex and not necessarily in the first meet, and in that sense it is OK situation arguably. If you meet a girl a few times, exchange gifts, and have sex, well none of that is illegal. It is more of a problem if you negotiate a transaction of money for sex, and no other relationship. The idea is to include as much of other stuff as possible so that it does not appear to be a transaction only.[/QUOTE]
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[QUOTE=BigBossMan;2450196]I found one for $250 and but then cancelled because she would not give any secondary verification. She would not even send a current selfie. What is the minimum that guys require to even meet someone?[/QUOTE]Video chats either via FaceTime or Google Meet or Duo. No silly shit like Snapchat or Skype.
Asking them to video chat will weed out lots of scammers (like fake profiles of women who are not actually the women in the photos), but it still doesn't guarantee you aren't dealing with a scammer or someone working with robbing crews (see my long story a few pages back).
My information and advise is USA specific. Seems most guys here are having much better luck with SA in places other than the US where prostitution is legal.
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Do You think $50 or $100 would do it?
One woman wrote me this note.
"When can you meet for a dinner intro? And how much will you compensate for a NON-physical meet & greet?
Asian girl.
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[QUOTE=BigBossMan;2450437]One woman wrote me this note.
"When can you meet for a dinner intro? And how much will you compensate for a NON-physical meet & greet?
Asian girl.[/QUOTE]Man, these chicks are something else! I wouldn't pay their asses a damn thing just for showing up to meet and greet. But, I guess some guys are thirsty enough that they will. Then if a guy like me comes along and I say "no", then these self-absorbed girls want to call me "cheap". No, I'm not desperate for some pussy, and you're full of yourself! The sugar baby thing isn't for me! Reminds me of tutes asking me to tip them just because they spent some of their invaluable time to chatting with me.
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[QUOTE=BigBossMan;2450437]One woman wrote me this note.
"When can you meet for a dinner intro? And how much will you compensate for a NON-physical meet & greet?
Asian girl.[/QUOTE]Not my style. I tell them I never give any money for first time meet and greet. If they refuse, they refuse. There are plenty of other girls. Move on.
If you give even 50, and inclusive of dinner and drinks, could become more than $100, probably $125 to $150, depending on where you go. You take off 2 to 3 hours, spend $125 or more, just for a dinner date? What if she simply takes your 50 and never meets you again? I am not desperate for dinner dates.
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[QUOTE=TheCane;2450440]Man, these chicks are something else! I wouldn't pay their asses a damn thing just for showing up to meet and greet. But, I guess some guys are thirsty enough that they will. Then if a guy like me comes along and I say "no", then these self-absorbed girls want to call me "cheap". No, I'm not desperate for some pussy, and you're full of yourself! The sugar baby thing isn't for me! Reminds me of tutes asking me to tip them just because they spent some of their invaluable time to chatting with me.[/QUOTE]Well, it is perfectly your prerogative to use sugar babe sites or not use them. You can reject them without trying out even once, nothing wrong with that. But see another post from me below. Essentially, it costs nothing for a girl who lists herself as seeking a guy to join these sites. SA says for every guy seeking a girl on the site, there are several girls seeking guys. Why is that? Do you see several girls, good looking girls at that, pursuing and hitting upon men in bars, restaurants, grocery stores, and other such places? No. These girls are on the site for money. That should set one's expectations regarding the behavior, motivation and other such things from girls. It does not mean you should treat them as WG or disrespect them. But always keep that in mind.
If a waitress at a restaurant or a cashier at a store does not provide the best service, or talks to you less than politely, you will never say I will boycott all restaurants or grocery stores. At worst, you might boycott that specific joint. Why form an opinion about all sugar babes based on what we hear about some girls behaving in a certain way with certain guys?
Personally, I think that's an over reaction based on prior naive expectations.
The only way to think about Sugar babe sites is that they are exchanges, matching girls and guys. Some of these girls are total scammers, but some are genuine and will have sex with you in return for money. You can also find girls willing to have sex in the real world, if you have the game, looks and confidence. For the sugar daddies, these sites are an easier place to score, that's all.
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Definitely No $$
[QUOTE=Pessimist;2450442]Not my style. I tell them I never give any money for first time meet and greet. If they refuse, they refuse. There are plenty of other girls. Move on.
If you give even 50, and inclusive of dinner and drinks, could become more than $100, probably $125 to $150, depending on where you go. You take off 2 to 3 hours, spend $125 or more, just for a dinner date? What if she simply takes your 50 and never meets you again? I am not desperate for dinner dates.[/QUOTE]If she asks this question she just told you the answer she does not want to have sex with you. She wants you to pay to meet her. Blech! Don't do it.
I have offered to pay a bit but it's an either or proposition. I explain how the date should go and for a complete date I would give $300 or whatever allowance. But if we don't vibe we can part no foul and I will pay your Uber or whatever. Indirectly this has set up in her mind if I bail I get $25 and if I go to the room I get $300. So far always gone with the $300 option.
Even had a Colombian hottie in London I had to go to $100 if she decides to bail. But her friend and me and her had a blast at dinner and had a four hour complete date instead. It was pretty great. Worth every penny. Not saying I’d recommend this practice but it worked out well here. Got the girl, got her friend thrown in and had a great time.
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[QUOTE=SavePros321;2450369]Video chats either via FaceTime or Google Meet or Duo. No silly shit like Snapchat or Skype.
Asking them to video chat will weed out lots of scammers (like fake profiles of women who are not actually the women in the photos), but it still doesn't guarantee you aren't dealing with a scammer or someone working with robbing crews (see my long story a few pages back).
My information and advise is USA specific. Seems most guys here are having much better luck with SA in places other than the US where prostitution is legal.[/QUOTE]Yep, this was one of my biggest mistakes. Video Chat or FaceTime should me must. I wasted a lot of time and this would eliminate most of the scammers.
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Hot Columbiana Duo in London
Don't believe I've previously posted this. I assume we could all use some actual sex stories in this lean time. Field report on my first use of SA in London. Second was even better. Oh and this is where I left $2000 on the table by accident and they didn't touch it.
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For my final night I've decided even tho I love going dancing with Paula and having sex with an escort before or after, I really want the full package where the dancing LEADS TO the bedroom. So I start hitting Seeking Arrangement hard, actually starting in the Uber after I leave Paula. Right after I arrive at my hotel that night I hit upon a Colombian hottie but I don't hear back till she texts me back around 3 am.
I know this is a super risky move going to SA since it's hit or miss, and it could be a fail at the dinner table or in the room but I want to take the risk to have the reward of a blowout final night. And (spoiler alert!) a blowout it is.
So I explore all the options (limited) but manage to engage Tana (the Colombiana) in a dialogue that leads to pay dirt. She agrees to see me for 350 for 4-5 hrs of unrushed fun. Dinner dancing and room time. This seems high based on my SA experience to date, but my alternative had been Noleta at straight up Diva pricing of 450 for what would have to be a rushed 3 hours (or 600 for 4 hours yikes!) so I am Ok with her price.
Well the price turns out to be 1/2 off because she says it's her friends birthday and can she come too? At first I think she is trying to upsell me to 700 but she confirms no price change. A two for one deal. Two girls for four hours for 350 . Now THATS a deal (in London) OK baby, it's on!
And I would say we have a top 5 "full experience" kind of night. They both show up at VietFood (where I am repeating) and Tana is clearly a solid 9+. She's a little slim for me, but her face and hair are boner-producing perfection. OMG way prettier than her pics. And Liliana not as much. A 7 without her glasses and a six with them. But what a lovely sweet girl and she loves to dance. And way more affectionate than Tana holding hands and snuggling up against me at various points. They are a great team Tana brings the optics and Liliana brings the GFE. LOL.
We have a nice intro dinner where I teach them how to use chopsticks and they do quite well. I am a pretty good dinner companion and we fall into it effortlessly. Just three old friends having dinner. Great fun and great food. Honestly the best I've eaten in ten years.
We have a grand time at Bar Soho and GAY. I mean who doesnt love being the guy dancing with two of the hottest chicks in the club. And I admit I like just spoiling them a bit dropping cash for dinner and drinks. But we are now 2. 5 hours in and Tana suggests we go to the room, which is a good idea because we'll be 3 hours in by the time we reach the hotel. Possibly the highlight of the whole thing is the pedal cab ride home! (They have these bicycle powered rickshaws throughout Soho). We have cracked a bottle of wine and are drinking it from the bottle and they are cranking the Colombian tunes and singing along. Me as the creamy filling between the two hotties. OMG the funnest thing.
The sex is great but in a funny way. We're cuddling on the bed, Tana in just her thong (wow!) and Liliana fully clothed. I don't think much about this till later but that was odd for Liliana to stay clothed. She's got a slight baby pooch so she may not want to be naked with Tana the slim goddess right beside her.
Well we get me naked and Tana goes for the condom for the BJ. I wave her off and say that’s not gonna work. Well rather than arguing about it, she talks with Liliana the GFE friend in Spanish and next thing u know Liliana is giving me a spectacular BBBJ. Totally works for me cuz Liliana is the BBBJ specialist (fully clothed) as Tana is the optics dancing now fully naked above me.
Eventually Tana fully engages for the sex part and it's quite great. She is soooo fucking beautiful and if you like slim, her body is a perfect ten. Looking at her eyes and smile while you fuck her in mish is legendary. And rare excellent pussy feel in all three positions did lazy dog rather than traditional. Oh and she added in some RCG and ACG for variety. In the end a BJHJ combo finish with Liliana strong on BLS (first of the week!) and Tana alternately kissing me deeply and just looking at me super sexy, enjoying me enjoying Lilianas excellent BBBJ (OWO). OMG did I say Tana was beautiful? That girl is dynamite.
A good 20 minute cuddle in a Liliana, Steve, Tana sandwich after climax. Sweet girls and 4 hours in total. I was completely and deeply satisfied.
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Background Checks?
Two of the woman have sent me background check apps. Anybody have experience with these things. It is probably just a way that they can get a commission right?
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Wow Really
[QUOTE=BigBossMan;2450490]Two of the woman have sent me background check apps. Anybody have experience with these things. It is probably just a way that they can get a commission right?[/QUOTE]I don't know what your search criteria is or how you are finding these women but I have NEVER had such a thing suggested. A scam perhaps? Real girls are too naive for that and pros to seasoned to care. I think it's got to be scammers. Message me with the city and their profile name and I would be happy to look and see what I think.
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Background Checks 2
[QUOTE=Steve9696;2450492]I don't know what your search criteria is or how you are finding these women but I have NEVER had such a thing suggested. A scam perhaps? Real girls are too naive for that and pros to seasoned to care. I think it's got to be scammers. Message me with the city and their profile name and I would be happy to look and see what I think.[/QUOTE][URL]https://optimumscreening.com/SA?oid=977&pid=5140716&memberid=5140716[/URL]
You get a badge on your profile if pay for this screening.
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Realist
[QUOTE=Pessimist;2450469]Well, it is perfectly your prerogative to use sugar babe sites or not use them. You can reject them without trying out even once, nothing wrong with that. It does not mean you should treat them as WG or disrespect them. But always keep that in mind. If a waitress at a restaurant or a cashier at a store does not provide the best service, or talks to you less than politely, you will never say I will boycott all restaurants or grocery stores. At worst, you might boycott that specific joint. Why form an opinion about all sugar babes based on what we hear about some girls behaving in a certain way with certain guys? Personally, I think that's an over reaction based on prior naive expectations.[/QUOTE]Dear Pessimist,
Thank you for letting me know that it is my prerogative. I did not realize that until you so astutely pointed it out. Now that you have, I will act accordingly. Thank you for enlightening me. But who said anything about treating them like a tute? Certainly I did not (I actually treat the tutes quite well mind you). I'm already savvy enough to know we're not talking about in your face prostitution here. Or, eh are we? No, what I'm talking about is not being treated like a simp and disrespected by them, which is exactly what they're doing by thinking I'm supposed to pay them some money just for showing up for a first meet and greet, on top of being a gentleman and paying 100% for drinks, dinner and whatever else that would contribute to a pleasant evening of getting to know one another. I'm not doing that for anybody, be it a tute, a sugar baby, or a "regular" girl. Pay them just to show up to eat the food and down the drinks I also paid for. And by the looks of it, it would seem that some of the men here who do partake in the sugar babes see it as I do.
And lastly, sometimes it's OK to live and learn vicariously you know. You don't have to go out and engage in everything every single time to understand with informed knowledge (as opposed to naivete) that it's not for you. For your own enlightenment, please know that I've researched the sugar baby scene very, very well (for several years my friend) and have viewed (documentaries and programs) and read (all over the internet including here) enough about it (from both the perspectives of the sugar daddies and the sugar babies) to know that it's not for me. Hey how about some props for knowing me for me better than anybody else possibly could? I'm well-educated, I'm well-traveled, and I tend not to shoot from the hip, especially when it comes to how I'm going to spend (or not spend) my money on the ladies. But even if I did shoot from the hip and acted with uninformed naivete, as you say. It would be my prerogative. We understand each other on this. Thank you for shopping!
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[QUOTE=BigBossMan;2450490]Two of the woman have sent me background check apps. Anybody have experience with these things. It is probably just a way that they can get a commission right?[/QUOTE]There was one "jurisdiction" I used to work where the girls regularly asked for "references". WTF is this? A job search? Now, I know why they were doing it, and it could be the same reason for why you're being asked this. Law enforcement knows that so much of the sugar baby scene is nothing more than a cover for prostitution, and it would not surprise me one bit if some of these girls have gotten stung, or they know somebody who has been stung. Or, they're just plain paranoid. As I indicated in a previous post, I have studied this whole scene quite well (really), and I've been waiting for the stories to start coming out. LE begins to target sugar baby sites and starts taking people down. Like they eventually did Craig's List. Sugar babies and sugar daddies. These women could be legit and fear that you are LE. I know one thing. I wouldn't be sending them a damn thing! For real! Out of their f'in minds to ask. Be careful out there men!
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Do Not
[QUOTE=BigBossMan;2450497][URL]https://optimumscreening.com/SA?oid=977&pid=5140716&memberid=5140716[/URL]
You get a badge on your profile if pay for this screening.[/QUOTE]Wow. Definitely do NOT do this. You are trying to stay anonymous. The last thing you need is a background screening. I have no photo and no validation whatsoever. Never had a girl ask for more than a pic of what I look like. Even though I've only had 20 ish dates I've surely exchanged chat with hundreds and pics with over a hundred and never ever been asked for more than pics.
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Yes, video chat is a must!
[QUOTE=SavePros321;2450369]Video chats either via FaceTime or Google Meet or Duo. No silly shit like Snapchat or Skype.
Asking them to video chat will weed out lots of scammers (like fake profiles of women who are not actually the women in the photos), but it still doesn't guarantee you aren't dealing with a scammer or someone working with robbing crews (see my long story a few pages back).
My information and advise is USA specific. Seems most guys here are having much better luck with SA in places other than the US where prostitution is legal.[/QUOTE]
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LOL! Background screening. Ha ha ha. No ways I'm going to do.
[QUOTE=Steve9696;2450514]Wow. Definitely do NOT do this. You are trying to stay anonymous. The last thing you need is a background screening. I have no photo and no validation whatsoever. Never had a girl ask for more than a pic of what I look like. Even though I've only had 20 ish dates I've surely exchanged chat with hundreds and pics with over a hundred and never ever been asked for more than pics.[/QUOTE]
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I usually give a small gift like a perfume for meet and greet. Nothing too fancy.
[QUOTE=Steve9696;2450470]If she asks this question she just told you the answer she does not want to have sex with you. She wants you to pay to meet her. Blech! Don't do it.
I have offered to pay a bit but it's an either or proposition. I explain how the date should go and for a complete date I would give $300 or whatever allowance. But if we don't vibe we can part no foul and I will pay your Uber or whatever. Indirectly this has set up in her mind if I bail I get $25 and if I go to the room I get $300. So far always gone with the $300 option.
Even had a Colombian hottie in London I had to go to $100 if she decides to bail. But her friend and me and her had a blast at dinner and had a four hour complete date instead. It was pretty great. Worth every penny. Not saying Id recommend this practice but it worked out well here. Got the girl, got her friend thrown in and had a great time.[/QUOTE]
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F*ck that
[QUOTE=Steve9696;2450514]Wow. Definitely do NOT do this. You are trying to stay anonymous. The last thing you need is a background screening. I have no photo and no validation whatsoever. Never had a girl ask for more than a pic of what I look like. Even though I've only had 20 ish dates I've surely exchanged chat with hundreds and pics with over a hundred and never ever been asked for more than pics.[/QUOTE]I totally agree with Steve. Do not agree to a background check. Don't even bother explaining why you won't do it. It's a convo that is just a waste of your time. Just move along to the next gal.
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[QUOTE=Steve9696;2450291]
I am just the opposite of Midwestern. Never a coffee date. Always dinner or drinks and straight to room. Generally 2-4 hours total. Unless she stays the night. Which always warms my heart.[/QUOTE]Just a clarification. I *always* use Steve's method when I *already* have a hotel room. For example, if I am on a business trip. I have to admit, it's more hit than miss. Especially if we are meeting for drinks, which relaxes inhibitions. So, if you already have a room, then I totally agree that Steve's approach is the way to go. Otherwise, a coffee date is a waste of time, especially if she does not insist on it or suggests it.
BUT, when I am at home, then I *always* do a coffee date first. Otherwise, what can I do? Book a hotel room and then hope that we will have naughty fun on the first date? Nope. Too many no-shows and sometimes when they do show, the chemistry just wasn't there. So, I paid for a room for nothing. Or, if first date does go well, then book a room on an app and head to the room? Nope. I need to show up at the front desk to go through the whole process of checking in, and this likely entails my losing my anonymity.
Please correct me if I am doing it wrong.
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Do not pay for meet and greet
I paid for a meet and greet a few times. It never led to anything. They continued to want to get paid for platonic dates. At first, I thought it might be worth it because maybe it will be a fun date. But then I realized that the kind of gals that want $100 just for a platonic date are not the kind of girls that are going to be fun to begin with. So I totally stopped doing it.
The funny thing is that if you question them about it, then they will say that they have been scammed so many times and so now they need proof that we are really rich and have sincere intentions for an arrangement, and they will often say "if you are really rich, then why do you care about a measly $100?" I have to admit, this is a compelling line, but just move to the next gal.
Besides, it's all about setting expectations. If you want to be generous, then do it later, after you feel like it is genuinely merited and worth it.
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Compelling?
[QUOTE=Midwestern;2450526]The funny thing is that if you question them about it, then they will say that they have been scammed so many times and so now they need proof that we are really rich and have sincere intentions for an arrangement, and they will often say "if you are really rich, then why do you care about a measly $100?" I have to admit, this is a compelling line, but just move to the next gal.[/QUOTE]Not to me it isn't, and the question is beside the point as far as I'm concerned. You don't get rich by doling out your money for little or nothing in return. Too many people simply don't have the right level of appreciation for this, especially people who have never had any money. Now, if she intends to put out, then why does she need a "measely" $100 just for showing up when she could have a much more generous gift back in the room? Pray tell girlie LOL!
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[QUOTE=TheCane;2450502]Dear Pessimist,
Thank you for letting me know that it is my prerogative. I did not realize that until you so astutely pointed it out. Now that you have, I will act accordingly. Thank you for enlightening me. But who said anything about treating them like a tute? Certainly I did not (I actually treat the tutes quite well mind you). I'm already savvy enough to know we're not talking about in your face prostitution here. Or, eh are we? No, what I'm talking about is not being treated like a simp and disrespected by them, which is exactly what they're doing by thinking I'm supposed to pay them some money just for showing up for a first meet and greet, on top of being a gentleman and paying 100% for drinks, dinner and whatever else that would contribute to a pleasant evening of getting to know one another. I'm not doing that for anybody, be it a tute, a sugar baby, or a "regular" girl. Pay them just to show up to eat the food and down the drinks I also paid for. And by the looks of it, it would seem that some of the men here who do partake in the sugar babes see it as I do.
And lastly, sometimes it's OK to live and learn vicariously you know. You don't have to go out and engage in everything every single time to understand with informed knowledge (as opposed to naivete) that it's not for you. For your own enlightenment, please know that I've researched the sugar baby scene very, very well (for several years my friend) and have viewed (documentaries and programs) and read (all over the internet including here) enough about it (from both the perspectives of the sugar daddies and the sugar babies) to know that it's not for me. Hey how about some props for knowing me for me better than anybody else possibly could? I'm well-educated, I'm well-traveled, and I tend not to shoot from the hip, especially when it comes to how I'm going to spend (or not spend) my money on the ladies. But even if I did shoot from the hip and acted with uninformed naivete, as you say. It would be my prerogative. We understand each other on this. Thank you for shopping![/QUOTE]Wow. You seem to be excessively sensitive. A lot of wasted sarcasm. Good that you have studied sugar babe sites. If you have never used the sites though, studying is just studying. It is as if a virgin said "I studied a lot of sex, even watched a lot of tapes". However, even in this post you talk as if money for the meet and greet is mandatory. I just said there are no rules when it comes to sugar babe sites and indeed no rules for the whole sugar babe scene. By implying that there is anything like a set rule or mandatory gift giving ("being treated like a simp and disrespected by them, which is exactly what they're doing by thinking I'm supposed to pay them some money just for showing up for a first meet and greet" you are already showing that your "studies" were still incomplete. Hopefully, this particular thread is helpful in furthering your studies. Good luck and congratulations for being well traveled and well educated my friend! Always a rare pleasure to meet such people in forums like this.
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2450526]I paid for a meet and greet a few times. It never led to anything. They continued to want to get paid for platonic dates. At first, I thought it might be worth it because maybe it will be a fun date. But then I realized that the kind of gals that want $100 just for a platonic date are not the kind of girls that are going to be fun to begin with. So I totally stopped doing it.
The funny thing is that if you question them about it, then they will say that they have been scammed so many times and so now they need proof that we are really rich and have sincere intentions for an arrangement, and they will often say "if you are really rich, then why do you care about a measly $100?" I have to admit, this is a compelling line, but just move to the next gal.
Besides, it's all about setting expectations. If you want to be generous, then do it later, after you feel like it is genuinely merited and worth it.[/QUOTE]I am afraid I need to disagree with you on your second paragraph MW. Again, this is strictly my take. You are an experienced sugar daddy, whatever works for you works for you. But those type of arguments from a girl "prove to me you are real, prove to me you are rich" are a huge turnoff and I tend to block them when I receive such replies. First, we need to prove nothing, least of all to girls who are ready to fuck for money. Secondly, throwing $100 does not prove one is rich. Even if I had $100 M, I would not pay $20 for a stick of chewing gum for example. You pay what something is worth, and I have a very strict principle that I will pay nothing for a meet and greet. I am paying for the drink or lunch, and that is enough.
Some girls say they don't have a car and ride and ask for Uber money. That is a legitimate request as it is indeed true that some of them have no money and no car. I offer them that I can pick them wherever they want to be picked, and we can drive to a restaurant near their house. Some object and say they cannot get into a car with a person they have not met yet. I tell them there is little I can do. If they cannot risk getting into a car with someone they do not know, I am not going to give money to a person I do not know yet.
I think giving money for a first time meet and greet is a slippery slope. But then again, this is my personal view.
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2450524]
Please correct me if I am doing it wrong.[/QUOTE]That is how I do it. If I have a hotel room, I just pretend that I am lousy with directions and meet the girl in the hotel bar or restaurant.
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2450526]I paid for a meet and greet a few times. It never led to anything. They continued to want to get paid for platonic dates. [/QUOTE]There are many girls on SA that are offering this on their profile. I really doubt they are getting too much business. Most men who are hitting the SD sites have successful lives filled with powerful and intelligent women, we have no shortage of platonic dates.
That being said, their are some stunners whom if they are accompanying us to a function or event then they should get payment for that as a service.
For hotel in my home town I have a couple of pre-approved hotel destinations that I have already researched. They are cool with me arriving early for my requirements, so that gives me the use of the room during the day, usually I can access a room from 10 am.
This week when I met a girl for the first time for a coffee date I already had two hotels researched in the immediate area. As soon as I saw that beautiful slender woman in heels I knew I would be exercising my hotel option. We turned up at the hotel, I checked in and paid cash. Yes, I give my real name on checkin. Paying cash keeps it off any bank statements.
PP.
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Early Hotel Access
[QUOTE=PilotPaul;2450569]There are many girls on SA that are offering this on their profile. I really doubt they are getting too much business. Most men who are hitting the SD sites have successful lives filled with powerful and intelligent women, we have no shortage of platonic dates.
That being said, their are some stunners whom if they are accompanying us to a function or event then they should get payment for that as a service.
For hotel in my home town I have a couple of pre-approved hotel destinations that I have already researched. They are cool with me arriving early for my requirements, so that gives me the use of the room during the day, usually I can access a room from 10 am.
This week when I met a girl for the first time for a coffee date I already had two hotels researched in the immediate area. As soon as I saw that beautiful slender woman in heels I knew I would be exercising my hotel option. We turned up at the hotel, I checked in and paid cash. Yes, I give my real name on checkin. Paying cash keeps it off any bank statements.
PP.[/QUOTE]So yeah agree the local hotel that I am paying for is the most complex part. Easy when traveling. Fortunately a girl I am seeing from time to time invited me to her place after two hotel visits. But I am trying out a new girl and the hotel situation presents itself again.
I am curious about how you discussed your 10 AM arrival for your requirements with the hotel? I would think most chains would not be down with "I need a room for a couple hours of fucking at 10 AM". So how did you phrase this and get such an early checkin?
Ps Great to see this thread active and flourishing! For the first couple months felt like me and Midwestern talking into the void. Great to see it gaining momentum and good information exchange. BTW my Miami $1000 shot off the bow girl seems to be going to accept $400. Although I have a couple girls who didn’t irk me in that way that I like better at this point. We’ll see.
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[QUOTE=PilotPaul;2450569]There are many girls on SA that are offering this on their profile. I really doubt they are getting too much business. Most men who are hitting the SD sites have successful lives filled with powerful and intelligent women, we have no shortage of platonic dates.
That being said, their are some stunners whom if they are accompanying us to a function or event then they should get payment for that as a service.
For hotel in my home town I have a couple of pre-approved hotel destinations that I have already researched. They are cool with me arriving early for my requirements, so that gives me the use of the room during the day, usually I can access a room from 10 am.
This week when I met a girl for the first time for a coffee date I already had two hotels researched in the immediate area. As soon as I saw that beautiful slender woman in heels I knew I would be exercising my hotel option. We turned up at the hotel, I checked in and paid cash. Yes, I give my real name on checkin. Paying cash keeps it off any bank statements.
PP.[/QUOTE]Sugar dates are a different matter. Yes, some guys like to show off by going to a party with an attractive young date. The girl expects to get paid for it. That is one of the sub segments of sugar babes, not all of them can pull it off. You want someone who is attractive, articulate, will not make a fool of herself and by extension you at the party, will not blurt out that you paid for her in front of your boss and colleagues and so on. I see it as a risky gambit for the guy, but for the girl it can be a good situation.
That is however, a different situation from what we were talking about, which is about paying the girl for that first meet, just to meet. That to me is a no no. I am fine if a guy and girl meet, decide to have a strictly platonic arrangement. After all, in FKKs, many guys go to the rooms with girls just to chat, listen to music, look at photos, play cards or what have you. That is their prerogative. But I will not pay to meet a girl where we discuss the terms of the arrangement. Never. Drinks and food yes, but no money or gifts just to meet.
Some hotels and motels do allow early check in and w / o extra payment. Depends on how full they are. Personally, I book in the afternoons or late evenings, 10 AM sex is too early for me.
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[QUOTE=PilotPaul;2450569]There are many girls on SA that are offering this on their profile. I really doubt they are getting too much business. Most men who are hitting the SD sites have successful lives filled with powerful and intelligent women, we have no shortage of platonic dates.
[/QUOTE]PP, a lot of the women who put down platonic are not. They just want to keep the creeps away. When SA listed allowance, one lady put down $20,000 a month just to keep the creeps away. I paid her $300 PPM.
I can get a feel from the profile if platonic means platonic, and I bet you could too. This is in contrast to WYP. I thought WYP would be a place where women could know I was a man of means, but no, it means crazy bitches who really expected me to dole out $100+ just to meet with them for dinner. Out of 11 dates from what's your price, I sealed the deal with one woman, granted she was hot as shit but the yield from WYP was God awful.
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[QUOTE=Steve9696;2450634]
I am curious about how you discussed your 10 AM arrival for your requirements with the hotel? I would think most chains would not be down with "I need a room for a couple hours of fucking at 10 AM". So how did you phrase this and get such an early checkin?
[/QUOTE]You would be surprised, Steve. I am nothing with Marriott like a silver whatever but I ask for and always get early and late checkin just by asking.
I have one friend who is like Ambassador type level at Starwoods and that means if the hotel is full, they will kick out someone with a reservation to accommodate him. I never heard of that before.
On a similar note, I was really frustrated with American Airlines and their AAdvantage plan. It is really getting to be a pain in the ass and an expense to use miles. Anyway, a friend of mine was bragging about getting to gold status with them as it gets your bags to fly free. I am going to focus on that now.
With you (and I) flying to South America so much, it does not take much to get to a higher level status, and it may be worth the few extra $$ to fly direct on a better airline than say Spirit and rack up the status points.
I was at a Bogota Marriott where you get access to their free food and snack bar and it was great. I paid $50 for two nights to eat all the meals there, and the food was good, and it gave us a lot more time to spend together in the bedroom.
Bottom line is you should check out the perks of these reward plans. Long term being loyal to one hotel chain and airline may pay off in other ways than immediate cash savings.
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This is perfect.
[QUOTE=Midwestern;2450524]Just a clarification. I *always* use Steve's method when I *already* have a hotel room. For example, if I am on a business trip. I have to admit, it's more hit than miss. Especially if we are meeting for drinks, which relaxes inhibitions. So, if you already have a room, then I totally agree that Steve's approach is the way to go. Otherwise, a coffee date is a waste of time, especially if she does not insist on it or suggests it.
BUT, when I am at home, then I *always* do a coffee date first. Otherwise, what can I do? Book a hotel room and then hope that we will have naughty fun on the first date? Nope. Too many no-shows and sometimes when they do show, the chemistry just wasn't there. So, I paid for a room for nothing. Or, if first date does go well, then book a room on an app and head to the room? Nope. I need to show up at the front desk to go through the whole process of checking in, and this likely entails my losing my anonymity.
Please correct me if I am doing it wrong.[/QUOTE]
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Naive
[QUOTE=Pessimist;2450532]Wow. You seem to be excessively sensitive. A lot of wasted sarcasm.[/QUOTE]You suggested that my reaction was based on nothing but pure naivete. You were not correct, as the reactions of plenty of others on the matter who do in fact have lots of experience with the sugar babies shall attest. People can choose to agree or disagree over the issue, but somebody who sees it differently than you do isn't necessarily being naive. As a worldly man, I may be many things, but naive is not one of them.
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For local SBs, I eventually just picked gals that had their own place
For me, the cost of hotels for meetups started to add up. So, eventually, I primarily dated SBs based on whether or not they had their own place for our meetups. Granted, most of these gals did not have their own place because they were too poor, or they had roommates. But if you can find these gals, it saves a lot on costs.
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[QUOTE=Pessimist;2450535]I am afraid I need to disagree with you on your second paragraph MW. Again, this is strictly my take. You are an experienced sugar daddy, whatever works for you works for you. But those type of arguments from a girl "prove to me you are real, prove to me you are rich" are a huge turnoff and I tend to block them when I receive such replies. First, we need to prove nothing, least of all to girls who are ready to fuck for money. Secondly, throwing $100 does not prove one is rich. Even if I had $100 M, I would not pay $20 for a stick of chewing gum for example. You pay what something is worth, and I have a very strict principle that I will pay nothing for a meet and greet. I am paying for the drink or lunch, and that is enough.
Some girls say they don't have a car and ride and ask for Uber money. That is a legitimate request as it is indeed true that some of them have no money and no car. I offer them that I can pick them wherever they want to be picked, and we can drive to a restaurant near their house. Some object and say they cannot get into a car with a person they have not met yet. I tell them there is little I can do. If they cannot risk getting into a car with someone they do not know, I am not going to give money to a person I do not know yet.
I think giving money for a first time meet and greet is a slippery slope. But then again, this is my personal view.[/QUOTE]I agree with you on every point. I was just saying that they (in their minds) may have a legit reason for asking to get paid at the meet and greet, but that it did not matter to me. I now *never* pay for a meet and greet. Like I said, I tried it a few times, but never again. And yes, I too have been asked about paying for their uber, but if they are that poor then I will either pick them up or I will let them suggest a very public meeting spot within their walking distance.
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Uber
[QUOTE=Midwestern;2450765]I agree with you on every point. I was just saying that they (in their minds) may have a legit reason for asking to get paid at the meet and greet, but that it did not matter to me. I now *never* pay for a meet and greet. Like I said, I tried it a few times, but never again. And yes, I too have been asked about paying for their uber, but if they are that poor then I will either pick them up or I will let them suggest a very public meeting spot within their walking distance.[/QUOTE]I actually love sending an Uber for the girl. Sure it adds $50 roundtrip or something but it feels badass to send a car. Plus since it's on your Uber (I have a separate Uber acct for this) you can track her arrival. None of this "I am half way there" BS. And you can meet her at the curb when she pulls up. It's just kinda awesome. And being the sappy guy I am I track them till they are home safe. Just feels awesome all around IMO.
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[QUOTE=Steve9696;2450774]I actually love sending an Uber for the girl. Sure it adds $50 roundtrip or something but it feels badass to send a car. Plus since it's on your Uber (I have a separate Uber acct for this) you can track her arrival. None of this "I am half way there" BS. And you can meet her at the curb when she pulls up. It's just kinda awesome. And being the sappy guy I am I track them till they are home safe. Just feels awesome all around IMO.[/QUOTE]Good point, I usually offer to pay half, but I do not fight over UBER anymore.
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Don't you have to give her your name?
[QUOTE=Steve9696;2450774]I actually love sending an Uber for the girl. Sure it adds $50 roundtrip or something but it feels badass to send a car. Plus since it's on your Uber (I have a separate Uber acct for this) you can track her arrival. None of this "I am half way there" BS. And you can meet her at the curb when she pulls up. It's just kinda awesome. And being the sappy guy I am I track them till they are home safe. Just feels awesome all around IMO.[/QUOTE]For this to work, don't you have to give her your name? Even if you don't, the driver knows your name, and so she could just ask for it from him.
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Where's the trust?
[QUOTE=Midwestern;2450779]For this to work, don't you have to give her your name? Even if you don't, the driver knows your name, and so she could just ask for it from him.[/QUOTE]You can actually enter another person's name when you order an uber ride. With that said, I would have other more important concerns about letting someone into my house if I do not even trust her with my first name.
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Fake Name Uber
[QUOTE=Midwestern;2450779]For this to work, don't you have to give her your name? Even if you don't, the driver knows your name, and so she could just ask for it from him.[/QUOTE]The account is set up under my Steve aliás. So yeah when I get in they say "are you Steve" and I go huh? Oh yeah. Steve. That's me!
They have a thing now where you can put peoples names and addresses in. So when I send an Uber for Krystal I assume they ask for Krystal tho I never checked.
It can be a bit of a pain on pick-up because the driver goes to the wrong building or whatever and there is drama hooking them up. But that's only sometimes. I still like it on balance.
When I first call it I screen cap the driver and route page and text it to her. And then give her arrival updates as I sip my G&T.
P.S. Obviously I have a real credit card with my real name asssocisted with paying the Uber bill so some guys may not like that part. I decided I like the tradeoff. I originally made the account for myself since Uber tracks all your trips and you cannot delete history. Only later started using it for pickups.
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[QUOTE=Steve9696;2450788]The account is set up under my Steve alis. So yeah when I get in they say "are you Steve" and I go huh? Oh yeah. Steve. That's me!
They have a thing now where you can put peoples names and addresses in. So when I send an Uber for Krystal I assume they ask for Krystal tho I never checked.
It can be a bit of a pain on pick-up because the driver goes to the wrong building or whatever and there is drama hooking them up. But that's only sometimes. I still like it on balance.
When I first call it I screen cap the driver and route page and text it to her. And then give her arrival updates as I sip my G&T.
P.S. Obviously I have a real credit card with my real name asssocisted with paying the Uber bill so some guys may not like that part. I decided I like the tradeoff. I originally made the account for myself since Uber tracks all your trips and you cannot delete history. Only later started using it for pickups.[/QUOTE]You guys and trying to stay anonymous. SA is not secure at all. A lot of these girls are desperate and crazy. I think being overly cautious about your identity can trigger a girl to do some research. I thing you should be as honest as possible, try not to give off any red flags. I would say any decent PI could figure your identity out for couple hundred bucks, probably less from an SA profile and phone number.
I am not talking about you Steve, your know what you are doing, but some of these other guys take it too another level.
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[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2450791]You guys and trying to stay anonymous. SA is not secure at all. A lot of these girls are desperate and crazy. I think being overly cautious about your identity can trigger a girl to do some research. I thing you should be as honest as possible, try not to give off any red flags. I would say any decent PI could figure your identity out for couple hundred bucks, probably less from an SA profile and phone number.
I am not talking about you Steve, your know what you are doing, but some of these other guys take it too another level.[/QUOTE]I have been on SA and other sugar babe sites for four years, have had several dozens of arrangements, both in my home city and on the road and have never had anyone either tell me, email me, text or phone me to intimate that they know my real identity.
How many arrangements have you had, how long have you been on SA or other such sites, and how many times has your identity been blown? How many girls employed PIs to pursue you?
It would be helpful to know some real numbers. I have presented my numbers. You implied it is easy to have identity blown. Was it guess work or did it actually happen to you?
Also, what exactly do you mean by "be as honest as possible"? Are you saying that you should tell her your real name, home address and and whatever else because she could figure them out anyway? I tell them very honestly that the nickname I use is not my real name, that she can never hope to have any relationship with me and it is strictly monetary and any other info about me is not her real business. That is as honest as I can ever be.
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[QUOTE=Steve9696;2450634]
I am curious about how you discussed your 10 AM arrival for your requirements with the hotel? I would think most chains would not be down with "I need a room for a couple hours of fucking at 10 AM". So how did you phrase this and get such an early checkin?
.[/QUOTE]I am glad I found this thread having been in ISG for a few years and SA for the past 1. 5 years.
My hotel conversation goes like this:
ME: Hi, do you have a room for tonight?
THEM: Let me check. Yes, we have a queen room for two for a promotion rate of $xx. Would you like to book that?
ME: Yes that sounds good. Is there any chance the room will be available early? I need to freshen up before a few meetings later.
Or.
ME: I'm in the area now, any chance I can get access to the room this morning.
If the hotel has less than full occupancy the previous night it is more likely. Earlier in the week is also more likely to be successful, especially Monday mornings.
My current SA status is that I'm in the interview period for a new girl to carry me through the next few months. Genuine girls do get snapped up quickly or they get burned off by the idiots. So it's important to move fast. This week I've trialled two SB candidates and next week it looks like two others. I pay them for the trial fuck of course. I will settle on one for ongoing weekly meets at her place.
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Great Thread Action
[QUOTE=PilotPaul;2450956]I am glad I found this thread having been in ISG for a few years and SA for the past 1. 5 years.
My hotel conversation goes like this:
ME: Hi, do you have a room for tonight?
THEM: Let me check. Yes, we have a queen room for two for a promotion rate of $xx. Would you like to book that?
ME: Yes that sounds good. Is there any chance the room will be available early? I need to freshen up before a few meetings later.
Or.
ME: I'm in the area now, any chance I can get access to the room this morning.
If the hotel has less than full occupancy the previous night it is more likely. Earlier in the week is also more likely to be successful, especially Monday mornings.
My current SA status is that I'm in the interview period for a new girl to carry me through the next few months. Genuine girls do get snapped up quickly or they get burned off by the idiots. So it's important to move fast. This week I've trialled two SB candidates and next week it looks like two others. I pay them for the trial fuck of course. I will settle on one for ongoing weekly meets at her place.[/QUOTE]Good tips. Yeah I am thrilled to see this thread so active. Thanks to Midwestern for starting it. I go to ISG everyday to read the latest. Used to go to German FKK Chat but it's all Corona virus now. Bangkok there is a little still happening. Medellin thread is still killing with a couple guys banging chicks right and left. But it's great to see this thread with vibrant and useful activity.
That reminds me — tip of the day. We all know SA girls can be selective — I always want to look my best. Secret weapon is Lumify eye drops. Viagra makes my eyes super red which makes me look the part of dirty old man where I prefer "seasoned suitor"! Anyhow one drop in each eye and literally in two minutes your eyes are bright white. It's amazing.
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[QUOTE=Pessimist;2450951]I have been on SA and other sugar babe sites for four years, have had several dozens of arrangements, both in my home city and on the road and have never had anyone either tell me, email me, text or phone me to intimate that they know my real identity.
How many arrangements have you had, how long have you been on SA or other such sites, and how many times has your identity been blown? How many girls employed PIs to pursue you?
It would be helpful to know some real numbers. I have presented my numbers. You implied it is easy to have identity blown. Was it guess work or did it actually happen to you?
Also, what exactly do you mean by "be as honest as possible"? Are you saying that you should tell her your real name, home address and and whatever else because she could figure them out anyway? I tell them very honestly that the nickname I use is not my real name, that she can never hope to have any relationship with me and it is strictly monetary and any other info about me is not her real business. That is as honest as I can ever be.[/QUOTE]Off and on for about 5 years. Usually I get pissed off and quit. I get tired of the lies and b. S. I have probably met 40-60 girls, with some good success.
Honestly, I real do lot like messing with American girls, they just do not measure up to Latins and Euros. The more I avoid American Chicks the happier I am. I am not sure I will get back on in the states. I do use in Mexico, with some great success. I am meet a much higher quality person and much less b. S.
Yes, just give them your first name and if there is something you do no want to talk about just tell them that. I know that several girls have looked me up on Social Media, I am not active on Social Media so no big deal. Again, be as honest as you can, it will prevent headaches down the road. If you are real that paranoid about your identity, then I would not us SA, as I said it is just not secure. Arrangements are a huge paper trail. Get an Escort, go to Tijuana or Germany.
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[QUOTE=Pessimist;2450951]I have been on SA and other sugar babe sites for four years, have had several dozens of arrangements, both in my home city and on the road and have never had anyone either tell me, email me, text or phone me to intimate that they know my real identity.
How many arrangements have you had, how long have you been on SA or other such sites, and how many times has your identity been blown? How many girls employed PIs to pursue you?
It would be helpful to know some real numbers. I have presented my numbers. You implied it is easy to have identity blown. Was it guess work or did it actually happen to you?
Also, what exactly do you mean by "be as honest as possible"? Are you saying that you should tell her your real name, home address and and whatever else because she could figure them out anyway? I tell them very honestly that the nickname I use is not my real name, that she can never hope to have any relationship with me and it is strictly monetary and any other info about me is not her real business. That is as honest as I can ever be.[/QUOTE]I know I chimed on this issue a few times already, but I'll chime in again. Sorry.
Here are my stats. I have had 23-25 arrangements. I would say that about one-quarter discovered my real identity *on their own*. Here's how I know. First, several of them viewed me on LinkedIn. If you have LinkedIn, you know when someone views your profile. Second, a couple of them added me or contacted me on their chat apps, like WhatsApp or something similar to that. Apps can "talk" to each other and share contact lists.
So, I was found, even though I tried hard to be anonymous. I never use my own car, I always use cash, I never bring any cards with my name on it, and I use Hushed, which allows me to chat and call anonymously. I guess if I had a burner phone, then the second way they discovered my identity could have been prevented.
But I honestly think that if any gal wants to figure out who I really am, then they can. But I guess this depends on your web presence and how much you use social media. For example, if you use LinkedIn or Facebook or Twitter whatever, then you are easy to find. And, if you have a significant web presence, then you are easy to find. I am a nobody, but there maybe dozens of websites that have my name on it, and many with my picture on it. In fact, I specifically asked one gal, who found my LinkedIn after a brief meet and greet, how she discovered my true identity, and she just said, "it was pretty easy. ".
So, all that said, I think the key is to not lie unnecessarily. Do not lie about your marital status, do not make false promises, and do not lie about what you're looking for. For example, don't lead them on into thinking this might lead to marriage, for example. This way, they will have no reason to hunt you down later. But do lie about your name.
Finally, you might eventually think that some of the gals are trustworthy and you may eventually voluntarily reveal your real identity, thinking that it's okay. This is a mistake. I did voluntarily tell a few of them my real name. Here's what happened. Three later went psycho on me (bad outcome). One became a pretty good friend (good outcome). Two eventually disappeared from my life (good outcome). So, 3 out 6 had a bad outcome. I honestly think these are representative and typical odds. So, given these odds, then is it worth it? I don't think so. Keep in mind that the gals on SA are not the most emotionally and mentally stable gals, on average. So, it is in our best interest to remain anonymous. Also, keep in mind that because most of these gals are not pros, some of them will eventually develop real feelings for you. These are the gals that will bring drama to you later. So best to stay anonymous.
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Psycho?
[QUOTE=Midwestern;2451008]Finally, you might eventually think that some of the gals are trustworthy and you may eventually voluntarily reveal your real identity, thinking that it's okay. This is a mistake. I did voluntarily tell a few of them my real name. Here's what happened. Three later went psycho on me (bad outcome).[/QUOTE]Wondering what that means? Are you able to elaborate? It would be interesting to know what happened.
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2451008]I know I chimed on this issue a few times already, but I'll chime in again. Sorry.
Here are my stats. I have had 23-25 arrangements. I would say that about one-quarter discovered my real identity *on their own*. Here's how I know. First, several of them viewed me on LinkedIn. If you have LinkedIn, you know when someone views your profile. Second, a couple of them added me or contacted me on their chat apps, like WhatsApp or something similar to that. Apps can "talk" to each other and share contact lists.
So, I was found, even though I tried hard to be anonymous. I never use my own car, I always use cash, I never bring any cards with my name on it, and I use Hushed, which allows me to chat and call anonymously. I guess if I had a burner phone, then the second way they discovered my identity could have been prevented.
But I honestly think that if any gal wants to figure out who I really am, then they can. But I guess this depends on your web presence and how much you use social media. For example, if you use LinkedIn or Facebook or Twitter whatever, then you are easy to find. And, if you have a significant web presence, then you are easy to find. I am a nobody, but there maybe dozens of websites that have my name on it, and many with my picture on it. In fact, I specifically asked one gal, who found my LinkedIn after a brief meet and greet, how she discovered my true identity, and she just said, "it was pretty easy. ".
So, all that said, I think the key is to not lie unnecessarily. Do not lie about your marital status, do not make false promises, and do not lie about what you're looking for. For example, don't lead them on into thinking this might lead to marriage, for example. This way, they will have no reason to hunt you down later. But do lie about your name..[/QUOTE]Lots of great information here. How do you end an allowance or a longer term ppm without a girl getting jealous? After all, she has gotten used to a nice lifestyle.
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2451008]I know I chimed on this issue a few times already, but I'll chime in again. Sorry.
Here are my stats. I have had 23-25 arrangements. I would say that about one-quarter discovered my real identity *on their own*. Here's how I know. First, several of them viewed me on LinkedIn. If you have LinkedIn, you know when someone views your profile. Second, a couple of them added me or contacted me on their chat apps, like WhatsApp or something similar to that. Apps can "talk" to each other and share contact lists.
So, I was found, even though I tried hard to be anonymous. I never use my own car, I always use cash, I never bring any cards with my name on it, and I use Hushed, which allows me to chat and call anonymously. I guess if I had a burner phone, then the second way they discovered my identity could have been prevented.
But I honestly think that if any gal wants to figure out who I really am, then they can. But I guess this depends on your web presence and how much you use social media. For example, if you use LinkedIn or Facebook or Twitter whatever, then you are easy to find. And, if you have a significant web presence, then you are easy to find. I am a nobody, but there maybe dozens of websites that have my name on it, and many with my picture on it. In fact, I specifically asked one gal, who found my LinkedIn after a brief meet and greet, how she discovered my true identity, and she just said, "it was pretty easy. ".
So, all that said, I think the key is to not lie unnecessarily. Do not lie about your marital status, do not make false promises, and do not lie about what you're looking for. For example, don't lead them on into thinking this might lead to marriage, for example. This way, they will have no reason to hunt you down later. But do lie about your name.
Finally, you might eventually think that some of the gals are trustworthy and you may eventually voluntarily reveal your real identity, thinking that it's okay. This is a mistake. I did voluntarily tell a few of them my real name. Here's what happened. Three later went psycho on me (bad outcome). One became a pretty good friend (good outcome). Two eventually disappeared from my life (good outcome). So, 3 out 6 had a bad outcome. I honestly think these are representative and typical odds. So, given these odds, then is it worth it? I don't think so. Keep in mind that the gals on SA are not the most emotionally and mentally stable gals, on average. So, it is in our best interest to remain anonymous. Also, keep in mind that because most of these gals are not pros, some of them will eventually develop real feelings for you. These are the gals that will bring drama to you later. So best to stay anonymous.[/QUOTE]I use fake name, gmail, under the same fake name, burner phone and refillable virtual gift card and cash. In my experience SB / SD relationship will eventually ends and SB's, will miss the $$ when it ends (it might be about me but they get upset at the loss of income). Nothing bad ever happened to me but I know a friend who was blackmailed by his SB.
Having said all that, if they really want to find me they can take my pic and google search face recognition might catch it. Or they can dig through your wallet while you are sleeping if you have them overnight in hotel (I have done it but rarely). Do your best to be careful that is all.
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Burner phone is a must if you want to hide your identity. Also, please go to Truecaller website and get your number removed from the list there. Try your best to hide your identity as much as possible.
I've had no issues if people figured out my identity. But my first choice would be to be anonymous.
[QUOTE=AddisDude;2451134]I use fake name, gmail, under the same fake name, burner phone and refillable virtual gift card and cash. In my experience SB / SD relationship will eventually ends and SB's, will miss the $$ when it ends (it might be about me but they get upset at the loss of income). Nothing bad ever happened to me but I know a friend who was blackmailed by his SB.
Having said all that, if they really want to find me they can take my pic and google search face recognition might catch it. Or they can dig through your wallet while you are sleeping if you have them overnight in hotel (I have done it but rarely). Do your best to be careful that is all.[/QUOTE]
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An interesting discussion. I've had a SB who found out my real identity (not that I hid anything from her) and tried to blackmail! Luckily, I called her bluff!
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I have hushed on my burner / second phone. I rarely use WhatsApp, and hushed is a text app. I do have LinkedIn and FB but no one looked me up on LinkedIn and I have no idea who is searching for me on FB. How can you tell? I do have my privacy settings for my FB as searchable only for friends of friends (my own page is visible only to friends).
I also never had any arrangement ever become that intense or long lasting. It always was physical and somewhat emotionally detached. Perhaps if I was to get attached to a girl that might eventually change her behavior, but on their own, no one ever did. And I am married, and this is strictly a physical thing for me, and while I like their company and some small chit chat, I am not really interested in any of them beyond the sex.
If someone was malicious and wanted to blackmail me then they could try it, I don't deny it. But most of these girls are not that sophisticated or that connected, don't even have that much money to pay for PIs etc. On their own, it is difficult to carry out such things. If they were already a part of a mafioso type gang, yes but then I would have to have the misfortune of picking them. Since it is always me approaching the girl on SA and not the other way, my luck would have to be terrible to run into such girls. There might be some such girls, but majority of them are just normal broke girl types, in it for some quick money and not looking to do blackmail etc per my own experience.
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[QUOTE=Sebastiane;2451145]An interesting discussion. I've had a SB who found out my real identity (not that I hid anything from her) and tried to blackmail! Luckily, I called her bluff![/QUOTE]What was the nature of the blackmail? I can see someone like me is under a higher amount of pressure due to marital status. If you are single, what can she do or say to blackmail? To embarrass you in front of family or work place colleagues? Then they would have to track you down not just individually but also know who is your family and where they are, if such a disclosure in front of family really embarrasses you and so on. I mean, what if you are not close to your family. If you are a 55 year old guy and some girl claims in front of everyone that she had sex with you, you might wear it as a badge of pride for all she knows.
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[QUOTE=Pessimist;2451176]I have hushed on my burner / second phone. I rarely use WhatsApp, and hushed is a text app. I do have LinkedIn and FB but no one looked me up on LinkedIn and I have no idea who is searching for me on FB. How can you tell? I do have my privacy settings for my FB as searchable only for friends of friends (my own page is visible only to friends).
I also never had any arrangement ever become that intense or long lasting. It always was physical and somewhat emotionally detached. Perhaps if I was to get attached to a girl that might eventually change her behavior, but on their own, no one ever did. And I am married, and this is strictly a physical thing for me, and while I like their company and some small chit chat, I am not really interested in any of them beyond the sex.
If someone was malicious and wanted to blackmail me then they could try it, I don't deny it. But most of these girls are not that sophisticated or that connected, don't even have that much money to pay for PIs etc. On their own, it is difficult to carry out such things. If they were already a part of a mafioso type gang, yes but then I would have to have the misfortune of picking them. Since it is always me approaching the girl on SA and not the other way, my luck would have to be terrible to run into such girls. There might be some such girls, but majority of them are just normal broke girl types, in it for some quick money and not looking to do blackmail etc per my own experience.[/QUOTE]I agree 99% of girls on SA just want $$ (excluding the scammers) and if you have short term gigs here and there PPM, you can avoid the drama. As for facial recognition on FB will identify the people on facebook and attempt to tag them or recommend their name for you to tag them (if the SB is savvy she can do it but I doubt they would), if you just take picture of random people on the street and attempt to post them on FB My friend was blackmailed, he had a short term arrangement which ended, like I said sometimes it is not even emotional connection, they just want money. She knew he worked for the city government employee in a manager position and he was married, she threaten to send pictures they took to his wife / coworkers unless he gives her $$ Another blackmailing they use is I am pregnant pay for abortion. In my case it has nothing to do with attachment emotions, I had few long term arrangement and they get dependent on the income stream and they feel entitled when that income stops abruptly.
These are extreme cases, the average SD / SB relationship can be drama free but if you are seeing multiple girls all over the place like I do, then it is best to prepare for the worse.
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Until this thread I had done my best to disengage the SB-SD from the transactional sex for cash preferring to pay them once per week on a Monday, regardless of when during the week we had met. In hindsight I can now see tat this has led to some problems as the girl (and I'm thinking of one specific diva) lost the relationship of what she had to do in order to be paid. My idea of paying on a regular day is that she can be confident she gets paid and is not questioning or hassling me.
If there is any consolation in this, because we ended with me having paid for the week of fun ahead (and she was so much fun) in my mind and her mind she still owes me a week of sex. Consequently she doesn't message or blackmail me.
I have a new girl getting into the cycle this week, she's asking for regular payment on a Monday, I'll only being giving the allowance after we meet. I'm sure I'll be getting her catch-up requests from 9:05 am Mondays.
I think SA is really a lot like Uber.
Uber put under-utilized cars into the market.
SA puts under-utlized pussy into the market. The pussy that has been sitting at home while hubby is at work.
PP.
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[QUOTE=AddisDude;2451189]I agree 99% of girls on SA just want $$ (excluding the scammers) and if you have short term gigs here and there PPM, you can avoid the drama. As for facial recognition on FB will identify the people on facebook and attempt to tag them or recommend their name for you to tag them (if the SB is savvy she can do it but I doubt they would), if you just take picture of random people on the street and attempt to post them on FB My friend was blackmailed, he had a short term arrangement which ended, like I said sometimes it is not even emotional connection, they just want money. She knew he worked for the city government employee in a manager position and he was married, she threaten to send pictures they took to his wife / coworkers unless he gives her $$ Another blackmailing they use is I am pregnant pay for abortion. In my case it has nothing to do with attachment emotions, I had few long term arrangement and they get dependent on the income stream and they feel entitled when that income stops abruptly.
These are extreme cases, the average SD / SB relationship can be drama free but if you are seeing multiple girls all over the place like I do, then it is best to prepare for the worse.[/QUOTE]What happens if your friend had claimed to his own workers he was the subject of extortion using a photoshopped image (a lie of course, but he controls that message) and goes to cops and lodges a complaint that he is being blackmailed. I think blackmail is still a crime, and she or her partners would do serious prior on term, no? A simple threat that he would go to the cops would at least make them reconsider that threat.
Most sugar babes have no money as well and a sugar daddy has more money and can afford legal counsel.
I agree all of this would be highly taxing, emotionally, potentially financially also. OTOH once you start giving into blackmail, there is no telling how long it could last and when it would start.
For married folk, this would be a lot more painful as suspicions and accusations would be enough to sink marriage.
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Burned Once But Blackmail?
[QUOTE=AddisDude;2451189]I agree 99% of girls on SA just want $$ (excluding the scammers) and if you have short term gigs here and there PPM, you can avoid the drama. As for facial recognition on FB will identify the people on facebook and attempt to tag them or recommend their name for you to tag them (if the SB is savvy she can do it but I doubt they would), if you just take picture of random people on the street and attempt to post them on FB My friend was blackmailed, he had a short term arrangement which ended, like I said sometimes it is not even emotional connection, they just want money. She knew he worked for the city government employee in a manager position and he was married, she threaten to send pictures they took to his wife / coworkers unless he gives her $$ Another blackmailing they use is I am pregnant pay for abortion. In my case it has nothing to do with attachment emotions, I had few long term arrangement and they get dependent on the income stream and they feel entitled when that income stops abruptly.
These are extreme cases, the average SD / SB relationship can be drama free but if you are seeing multiple girls all over the place like I do, then it is best to prepare for the worse.[/QUOTE]I will admit I got burned once by a girl I truly liked and flew to London (having spent 21 hrs together over three days) only to have her ditch me. But blackmail seems so far fetched with the girls I've been with. They are nice college or early career girls. They aren't evil. They are too busy having lives to think about doing anything else. I am sure there is a wide variance across SA but I pick girls who have real lives and blackmail would be so far out of their zone.
I will say I don't like to play next to the poverty line. I had one girl who started to hit me up for diapers and formula money. I knew going in she was pretty low brow but that was insta block. I think your best off with girls that have a job or go to college or have some family support. You want to be the icing on the cake not the flour.
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We need to do a lot of due diligence before having a girl for LTR. That's time consuming but we have no choice.
Cheers!
[QUOTE=PilotPaul;2451199]Until this thread I had done my best to disengage the SB-SD from the transactional sex for cash preferring to pay them once per week on a Monday, regardless of when during the week we had met. In hindsight I can now see tat this has led to some problems as the girl (and I'm thinking of one specific diva) lost the relationship of what she had to do in order to be paid. My idea of paying on a regular day is that she can be confident she gets paid and is not questioning or hassling me.
If there is any consolation in this, because we ended with me having paid for the week of fun ahead (and she was so much fun) in my mind and her mind she still owes me a week of sex. Consequently she doesn't message or blackmail me.
I have a new girl getting into the cycle this week, she's asking for regular payment on a Monday, I'll only being giving the allowance after we meet. I'm sure I'll be getting her catch-up requests from 9:05 am Mondays.
I think SA is really a lot like Uber.
Uber put under-utilized cars into the market.
SA puts under-utlized pussy into the market. The pussy that has been sitting at home while hubby is at work.
PP.[/QUOTE]
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My experience with students has been the best. Models are too greedy and they keep milking you.
[QUOTE=Steve9696;2451240]I will admit I got burned once by a girl I truly liked and flew to London (having spent 21 hrs together over three days) only to have her ditch me. But blackmail seems so far fetched with the girls I've been with. They are nice college or early career girls. They aren't evil. They are too busy having lives to think about doing anything else. I am sure there is a wide variance across SA but I pick girls who have real lives and blackmail would be so far out of their zone.
I will say I don't like to play next to the poverty line. I had one girl who started to hit me up for diapers and formula money. I knew going in she was pretty low brow but that was insta block. I think your best off with girls that have a job or go to college or have some family support. You want to be the icing on the cake not the flour.[/QUOTE]
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[QUOTE=Pessimist;2451178]What was the nature of the blackmail? I can see someone like me is under a higher amount of pressure due to marital status. If you are single, what can she do or say to blackmail? To embarrass you in front of family or work place colleagues? Then they would have to track you down not just individually but also know who is your family and where they are, if such a disclosure in front of family really embarrasses you and so on. I mean, what if you are not close to your family. If you are a 55 year old guy and some girl claims in front of everyone that she had sex with you, you might wear it as a badge of pride for all she knows.[/QUOTE]We took some intimate pictures together and she threatened to send them to my boss at work unless I paid her $$ I called her bluff and told her to go ahead. She didn't but I blocked her after that.
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[QUOTE=SfoCowboy;2451324]My experience with students has been the best. Models are too greedy and they keep milking you.[/QUOTE]Yes exactly, the difference being models tend to be already working or making a bit of money, I would say not so much but a little to sustain themselves, but students are altogether new and they don't have any source of income. Another factor could be models are from their profession already knowing about selling their body for making money and they know how to handle their clients and making money, but students are completely novice and max they have any sexual experiences would be with their BF. I see it in that way.
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[QUOTE=SfoCowboy;2451323]We need to do a lot of due diligence before having a girl for LTR. That's time consuming but we have no choice.
Cheers![/QUOTE]LTR is only preferable if you have built a rapport with a girl and she has not been influenced by other mongers or SD who may intentionally or not may have tried to spoil her attitude or rates. I find LTR should be only done when a new profile comes up. It's not so fun with already existing old profiles.
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This is spot on, but it's all so true in general too
[QUOTE=Vicky98;2451346]LTR is only preferable if you have built a rapport with a girl and she has not been influenced by other mongers or SD who may intentionally or not may have tried to spoil her attitude or rates. I find LTR should be only done when a new profile comes up. It's not so fun with already existing old profiles.[/QUOTE]The noobs on SA are often the best catches. I used to sometimes just check for first-day noobs to SA. I remember one 24 year super hottie who just joined the site and I immediately chatted her up and we exchanged contact info and eventually agreed to a date. Later that day, her profile disappeared. When we had our date, I asked her why her profile disappeared and she said she got an avalanche of guys, including a lot of creeps, contacting her and it overwhelmed her so she shut her profile down. She and I dated for a couple of months. She never asked for a dime. I just paid for all our dates. Eventually the relationship just fizzled out. Last I heard from her, she was in law school.
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Thanks Steve
[QUOTE=Steve9696;2451240]I will admit I got burned once by a girl I truly liked and flew to London (having spent 21 hrs together over three days) only to have her ditch me. But blackmail seems so far fetched with the girls I've been with. They are nice college or early career girls. They aren't evil. They are too busy having lives to think about doing anything else. I am sure there is a wide variance across SA but I pick girls who have real lives and blackmail would be so far out of their zone.
I will say I don't like to play next to the poverty line. I had one girl who started to hit me up for diapers and formula money. I knew going in she was pretty low brow but that was insta block. I think your best off with girls that have a job or go to college or have some family support. You want to be the icing on the cake not the flour.[/QUOTE]Thanks for all the good advice sir!
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Good thoughts!
[QUOTE=Vicky98;2451346]LTR is only preferable if you have built a rapport with a girl and she has not been influenced by other mongers or SD who may intentionally or not may have tried to spoil her attitude or rates. I find LTR should be only done when a new profile comes up. It's not so fun with already existing old profiles.[/QUOTE]
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Some girls are really in it because the prefer older men. I met this girl in Barcelona, Latina from Argentina. Amazing experience. She felt that guys her age don't appeal to her for various realms. She is not a greedy girl at all. I'm waiting to go back to Bcn and she is waiting for me too.
[QUOTE=Vicky98;2451344]Yes exactly, the difference being models tend to be already working or making a bit of money, I would say not so much but a little to sustain themselves, but students are altogether new and they don't have any source of income. Another factor could be models are from their profession already knowing about selling their body for making money and they know how to handle their clients and making money, but students are completely novice and max they have any sexual experiences would be with their BF. I see it in that way.[/QUOTE]
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Issue with long term or any allowance for that matter is that you are expected to give money on a weekly or monthly basis (or pay her monthly rent and some other expenses, whatever help you are providing) regardless of how many times a month you are meeting her. So, say you agree you $250 a week with one meet per week. Then immediately the girl will be wanting that $250 a week. Say, you are on business travel for a couple of weeks. The girl is back in your home town and still expects to receive $500 for those two weeks. You might feel that you didn't get any value for your money. If she gives you a few more meets to make up, it will be a different matter but she might say "I am busy, I have school work, I can't meet more than once this week".
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[QUOTE=SfoCowboy;2451419]Some girls are really in it because the prefer older men. I met this girl in Barcelona, Latina from Argentina. Amazing experience. She felt that guys her age don't appeal to her for various realms. She is not a greedy girl at all. I'm waiting to go back to Bcn and she is waiting for me too.[/QUOTE]How old was she?
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[QUOTE=Pessimist;2451448]Issue with long term or any allowance for that matter is that you are expected to give money on a weekly or monthly basis (or pay her monthly rent and some other expenses, whatever help you are providing) regardless of how many times a month you are meeting her. So, say you agree you $250 a week with one meet per week. Then immediately the girl will be wanting that $250 a week. Say, you are on business travel for a couple of weeks. The girl is back in your home town and still expects to receive $500 for those two weeks. You might feel that you didn't get any value for your money. If she gives you a few more meets to make up, it will be a different matter but she might say "I am busy, I have school work, I can't meet more than once this week".[/QUOTE]For the very same reason we have to be really smart to adjust our compensation according to our capacity in the very first conversation only, and we can better negotiate well with the newer profiles, not with the older ones.
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[QUOTE=Sebastiane;2451342]We took some intimate pictures together and she threatened to send them to my boss at work unless I paid her $$ I called her bluff and told her to go ahead. She didn't but I blocked her after that.[/QUOTE]You could have brought up the fact that this is extortion. And with your proof from her messages, she could go to jail for several years. But this may escalate things even further. Not sure. But in any event, I would save the messages, in case you need them later as a counter threat.
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She is 21.
[QUOTE=Vicky98;2451493]How old was she?[/QUOTE]
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It takes a lot of time, trials and errors to find a girl for LTR. You got to be willing to accept that it won't be a hit every time. Once I found a wonderful girl with all the right qualities required to be a good LTR but I got a feeling that she could get emotionally attached. I cut it short as soon as I got that feeling.
[QUOTE=Pessimist;2451448]Issue with long term or any allowance for that matter is that you are expected to give money on a weekly or monthly basis (or pay her monthly rent and some other expenses, whatever help you are providing) regardless of how many times a month you are meeting her. So, say you agree you $250 a week with one meet per week. Then immediately the girl will be wanting that $250 a week. Say, you are on business travel for a couple of weeks. The girl is back in your home town and still expects to receive $500 for those two weeks. You might feel that you didn't get any value for your money. If she gives you a few more meets to make up, it will be a different matter but she might say "I am busy, I have school work, I can't meet more than once this week".[/QUOTE]
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Girl Statistics
[QUOTE=SfoCowboy;2451568]She is 21.[/QUOTE]I read an article in Wired about women and older men. They have studied this some and found that about 50-60% of girls will not date much older men. About 35-40% are indifferent to age. And about 10-15% prefer men significantly older than themselves. This sounds about right to me actually. I've fairly often had the conversation with girls about how men in their 20's are totally selfish and immature. And I can't help but agree having been one.
I’ve also seen a huge difference in maturity between 19-21 year old girls and 23-24 year old. Maybe this should not be surprising. But the 21 year olds are 10x more likely to flake than a 23 year old. There is a crucial maturing that somehow occurs in those couple of years.
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[QUOTE=Steve9696;2451602]
Ive also seen a huge difference in maturity between 19-21 year old girls and 23-24 year old. Maybe this should not be surprising. But the 21 year olds are 10x more likely to flake than a 23 year old. There is a crucial maturing that somehow occurs in those couple of years.[/QUOTE]For most 21 year olds, almost all of their friends are around their age. So, they are still immature. But for most 23 year olds, most of their friends are NOT around their age. This is because they are finally out of college and working, and so they will have colleagues (and thus friends) of all different ages, or if they are in grad school, then they will have classmates who are NOT straight out of undergrad. This is why 24 is the minimum age person that I will date. I tried dating college gals, but they are just barely more mature than high school gals, and so I couldn't take it any more. A 21 year old is still being taken care of my mom and dad. But for many 24 year olds, they are now making money and paying rent and taxes, etc.
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I've had my own cases of girls flaking out. But I got better with time in filtering. I'm in my late 30's.
[QUOTE=Steve9696;2451602]I read an article in Wired about women and older men. They have studied this some and found that about 50-60% of girls will not date much older men. About 35-40% are indifferent to age. And about 10-15% prefer men significantly older than themselves. This sounds about right to me actually. I've fairly often had the conversation with girls about how men in their 20's are totally selfish and immature. And I can't help but agree having been one.
Ive also seen a huge difference in maturity between 19-21 year old girls and 23-24 year old. Maybe this should not be surprising. But the 21 year olds are 10x more likely to flake than a 23 year old. There is a crucial maturing that somehow occurs in those couple of years.[/QUOTE]
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Good tips. I tend to pick students who are usually from a different country and who are in need. Less restrictions and better strike rate.
[QUOTE=Midwestern;2451610]For most 21 year olds, almost all of their friends are around their age. So, they are still immature. But for most 23 year olds, most of their friends are NOT around their age. This is because they are finally out of college and working, and so they will have colleagues (and thus friends) of all different ages, or if they are in grad school, then they will have classmates who are NOT straight out of undergrad. This is why 24 is the minimum age person that I will date. I tried dating college gals, but they are just barely more mature than high school gals, and so I couldn't take it any more. A 21 year old is still being taken care of my mom and dad. But for many 24 year olds, they are now making money and paying rent and taxes, etc.[/QUOTE]
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Thread ended?
[QUOTE=Midwestern;2451610]For most 21 year olds, almost all of their friends are around their age. So, they are still immature. But for most 23 year olds, most of their friends are NOT around their age. This is because they are finally out of college and working, and so they will have colleagues (and thus friends) of all different ages, or if they are in grad school, then they will have classmates who are NOT straight out of undergrad. This is why 24 is the minimum age person that I will date. I tried dating college gals, but they are just barely more mature than high school gals, and so I couldn't take it any more. A 21 year old is still being taken care of my mom and dad. But for many 24 year olds, they are now making money and paying rent and taxes, etc.[/QUOTE]
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Please contribute to my new thread
I started a new thread to discuss mongering in the age of COVID19. I hope you will contribute to it. I am hoping it will provide good intel. Thanks.
[URL]http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4164-Mongering-in-the-age-of-COVID19[/URL]
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Take the Long Shot
While I can't say this has turned into a meeting yet don't be afraid to approach girls who seem "off target". Sometimes girls will say they are looking for something long term or with just one guy. If she looks worth it I will often throw a line in. Something like I know she's looking for long term and totally respect that but I'm going to be in town and if she'the like to have a couple nights of awesome fun then hit me up.
I probably get an 80% uptake on conversation. Right now I am talking with an AMAZING girl where I just popped in and said I know we aren't really a match because I am just passing thru but just had to say how dazzling you are. Didn't expect a response. Really just wanted to complement her. And she fired back. She's a super interesting girl and we are chatting nightly and planning a meetup in the future. So you never know. Just go for it.
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[QUOTE=Pessimist;2451448]Issue with long term or any allowance for that matter is that you are expected to give money on a weekly or monthly basis (or pay her monthly rent and some other expenses, whatever help you are providing) regardless of how many times a month you are meeting her. So, say you agree you $250 a week with one meet per week. Then immediately the girl will be wanting that $250 a week. Say, you are on business travel for a couple of weeks. The girl is back in your home town and still expects to receive $500 for those two weeks. You might feel that you didn't get any value for your money. If she gives you a few more meets to make up, it will be a different matter but she might say "I am busy, I have school work, I can't meet more than once this week".[/QUOTE]Allowance is a sucker's game. And for the exact reasons you have lined out. When you start talking allowance they are expecting money upfront.
And for the other scenario you mentioned, you don't even have to be on business travel. Once she has your money, she has those excuses at the ready ("it's that time of the month", "my dog is sick", etc).
Pay Per Meetup (PPM) is the best way to go always.
And $250 per week for one meetup per week? Those are straight up escort pricing. You might as well save yourself some time and use a website like P411.
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1 photos
Good News on SA
Looks like Seeking is going to introduce video chat right into their website. Should save you a lot of time from dealing with fake profiles and having to try to move women over to Google Duo or FaceTime (which would require you to give out your personal number).
See attached.
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They do go off fast
I notice on the SA website that there is a large number of girls that will be on the site for just a few days.
Maybe they get a guy and go offline.
Maybe they get offended by all the idiots that send dick-pics.
Maybe they realise they have to work for the cash.
Maybe they don't like sex with strangers for the money on offer.
Maybe they are just investigating and decide it's not for them.
When I am looking I do prefer girls to have been on the site for a few days already.
It would be interesting to know how many girls actually succeed.
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[QUOTE=Steve9696;2451602]I read an article in Wired about women and older men. They have studied this some and found that about 50-60% of girls will not date much older men. About 35-40% are indifferent to age. And about 10-15% prefer men significantly older than themselves. This sounds about right to me actually. I've fairly often had the conversation with girls about how men in their 20's are totally selfish and immature. And I can't help but agree having been one.[/QUOTE]Isn't Wired a feminist rag? I would not listen to any studies done by old cat ladies who have slammed hard into "The Wall". Dido for male feminist.
On the one hand, this may apply to apply to regular traditional boyfriend girlfriend "regular folk" dating situations for people looking to get married and start a family.
But since we are on a forum talking about P4P and dealing with women looking to level up or at least supplement their current economic situation, this does not apply.
Just remember back in your early 20's: most guys are broke as fuck at this stage in their life until their late 20's to early 30's. There was nothing you could offer a chick at that time other than hard dick and bubble gum.
Most men are at their financial Apex around 45 years old. In terms of security, these are the men women most desire.
Don't believe me? Take a look at most of the female profiles on Seeking. A lot of them have their age filters set to 30+.
This tells us that most younger women (18-28) view the men in their age range or younger to be broke.
Try it yourself: throw up a profile on Seeking as a 21 yr old "Entrepreneur" (LOL) and see how well you fair. Because of the age range you will probably be filtered out by 90% of the women on the app.
Do younger women prefer to sleep with men their own age or slightly older (or younger)? Sure!
But don't tell me she wouldn't miss the chance to trade up to the 48 yr Exec with the Lambo and private jet who tells her that she can quit her job tomorrow and travel the world with him for the next 3-6 months.
Long story short:
Are you an older guy that wants to fuck young hotties? Just have money!
Since most the guys here are playing the SB game, it is assumed that you have a good amount of (disposable income). Carry on as per usual.
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[QUOTE=PilotPaul;2452380]I notice on the SA website that there is a large number of girls that will be on the site for just a few days.
Maybe they get a guy and go offline.
Maybe they get offended by all the idiots that send dick-pics.
Maybe they realise they have to work for the cash.
Maybe they don't like sex with strangers for the money on offer.
Maybe they are just investigating and decide it's not for them.
When I am looking I do prefer girls to have been on the site for a few days already.
It would be interesting to know how many girls actually succeed.[/QUOTE]Who knows they are! Could be anyone. Could be scammers, could even be guys who picked up a few photos off the internet and posing as girls to siphon some easy money from unsuspecting guys. Could be girls who heard about this site, thought they could make some dough and giving it a shot. Could be genuine sugar babes seeking some real connections.
My rule of thumb is that until you meet a girl face to face for even a brief meet and greet, the girl in cyberspace is not that different from an AI bot.
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[QUOTE=SavePros321;2452385]Isn't Wired a feminist rag? I would not listen to any studies done by old cat ladies who have slammed hard into "The Wall". Dido for male feminist.
On the one hand, this may apply to apply to regular traditional boyfriend girlfriend "regular folk" dating situations for people looking to get married and start a family.
But since we are on a forum talking about P4P and dealing with women looking to level up or at least supplement their current economic situation, this does not apply.
Just remember back in your early 20's: most guys are broke as fuck at this stage in their life until their late 20's to early 30's. There was nothing you could offer a chick at that time other than hard dick and bubble gum.
Most men are at their financial Apex around 45 years old. In terms of security, these are the men women most desire..[/QUOTE]Funny story: I think I said this before here, I falsified almost all my personal data on SA. I reduced both my age, my net worth and annual income, and some of the other details as well. Anyway, this one girl that I was interested in said to me that I am too young and not rich enough and hence she is not interested in talking to me and then blocked me. Funnily enough, a few days prior to that, another girl demanded to know how I made this much money at a young age, and said I was lying about my networth and also blocked me.
LOL.
Can't please them all.
But yes, you are right, many girls do not want with too young sugar daddies although a few girls DO say they donot want any guy above 30 or 35. Ideal age is 40, you are not going to be rejected by anyone.
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[QUOTE=SavePros321;2452372]Looks like Seeking is going to introduce video chat right into their website. Should save you a lot of time from dealing with fake profiles and having to try to move women over to Google Duo or FaceTime (which would require you to give out your personal number).
See attached.[/QUOTE]I am not sure if this is good news, there are some serious privacy issues. I am not as paranoid as some on this thread, but I am careful. I probably will avoid this service.
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[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2452528]I am not sure if this is good news, there are some serious privacy issues. I am not as paranoid as some on this thread, but I am careful. I probably will avoid this service.[/QUOTE]Agree. It is a serious nuisance. It keeps flashing right at the top. If you are on a phone and screen is slow due to a bad connection or what and accidentally touch the video chat, you might be on with someone you didn't want to be talking to at that moment.
I am wondering if they are gong to include some sort of payment service, like a Venmo in the service soon. It is a logical addition to video chat. Many girls ask for payment for video chats already and SA might be wanting to capture the economics of it. That will suck. Girls will be pestering for money and the site will attract even more fakes.
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[QUOTE=Sebastiane;2451342]We took some intimate pictures together and she threatened to send them to my boss at work unless I paid her $$ I called her bluff and told her to go ahead. She didn't but I blocked her after that.[/QUOTE]Sebastiane / Fellow Monger.
I hate hearing about someone getting blackmailed, especially a fellow monger! Not sure what info you gave her, but whatever it was, it was too much:
I, like you, am a fan of pictures and videos with my girls. I have a little library of pics (not all intimate, some just having fun) and videos that I keep for memories.
None of us should be put in a position where our lives are compromised. We should never be at the mercy of one of these girls that decides to be crazy and get more involved in our life than we would like or allow (interaction iwth kids / wife / job / parents / boss, etc). To each his own, but I've been burned and now I follow a few rules when stepping into the SA world, mainly because we don't know how stable these girls are, or what they are capable of after you bang them out.
Again, these are rules that I follow that work for me. They enable me to guard my ID and sever ties seamlessly if necessary. In the end, you should do whatever works for you.
When doing SA or escorting (don't do this often) here are my monger tools:
1. Old Phone (yes, I use a different phone for ALL things monger related) - keeps all your apps: whatsapp, telegram, gvoice, gmail, uber, airbnb, skype.
1 a. Yes, whatsapp, telegram, etc should all be related to your monger gmail / gvoice accounts. All tied together, easy to cut. Again. New accounts for all that stuff, reuse nothing from personal.
1 b. Take all your pics and vids with this phone too and secure the hell out of it. Distinct pw, etc.
1 c. It's a pet peeve of mine, but turn off all notifications, especially notifications to a locked screen. You don't want anyone that finds your monger phone seeing compromising messages from your favorite girl in Prague.
2. Google voice number. Use this for whatsapp / telegram / instagram / uber / texting (US).
3. VPN. I already use this in my personal life, so it's not an added expense. Some girls don't like guys that only come to town once every 2 months for a day or two, some are okay with it. VPN allows you to "be in town" on SA whenever you like giving you access to all girls, even the ones that don't like the "only here for 2-3 days business guys" (like me). Once they meet you, they won't care once the $$ starts flowing.
4. SIM. This is mainly because I travel. It's cheap to buy a 10 g SIM or refresh your SIM for 6 eu. Can't beat that.
Rules I follow:
1. Names on your SA account, gmail, uber account (important; discussed further down), facebook, instagram, and whatsapp accounts should correspond.
2. Never use your real name! Never!
2 a. Never use your real name! . even after you have met her and like her and banged her 20 times. Don't do it. The more you bang her, the more of a connection (usually), and you don't want a stalker on your hands. This happened to me, but in the end, I was able to cut ties because of my setup.
3. Pics. I love them. I take them all the time, but with my phone. Always my phone, never hers! I've taken tons of pics, and can choose to share or not. Only one girl has actually asked for our video. There was no issue because only her face, pussy, and tits were in the video.
4. Uber. I uber alone, I send ubers for them, we take them together, etc. (Again, this is not my everyday uber acct). The uber app on my "monger phone", is tied to my monger number and uses my monger name (see the pattern). Sooo when you get in the car with your girl and the driver says, "Genghis Khan, right", you can confirm with an assuring nod, and at that point, your girl's confidence in your identity is cemented a bit more. Important for curious girls (that like to go digging) or potential stalkers (I've had both) and Yes, this has helped!
5. Facebook (use or don't) - Obv, use your monger name and email if you do (same for instagram). I was talking to girl for 30 minutes over whatsapp and she already hit my facebook profile snooping around.
6. SA profile pic shouldn't be overly visible. I'm wearing shades in mine.
7. Passport (I'm usually abroad) and credit cards should be in a safe place away from prying eyes. Not laying on the desk for her to take a quick peak while you are taking a piss and then look you up on Linkedin. This never happened to me, but I've heard stories. Careful with the wallet if she stays over. Put that somewhere safe too. Most will never look through your stuff (hasn't happened to me) but the ones that will have the potential to cause some serious issues in your life. Just saying.
8. Where you work? Tell her your industry, don't lie. Tell her about some of your customers, it's ok. Hell, even tell her that you are in town for work and that you are the best accountant (for example) in the world. But. Don't mention your company or leave anything company related in sight when she is at your place. If "sharing" starts to happen, then misdirection can be better than avoiding a topic. I want the girl to be comfortable and open. It will make sex so much better once we arrive at our destination. I've had those sessions smoking hookah with a girl, we are both drunk and getting more familiar with each other (opening up). She will start to tell you personal things about herself. Psychologically, this encourages you to do the same. That's fine. I share, but I mention big companies like Best Buy, or Walmart, or Microsoft all the time.
9. Many will disagree with me with this one. I Do Not Engage in the hobby in my city. This is easy for me because I travel alot. I only partake in the hobby away from my home city.
10. Never hit it raw. I know many guys here have had great experiences, but for me, it's not worth the risk.
Again, not making suggestions here, I'm just detailing my setup that's the result of bad experiences, prying eyes, snooping girls, stalkers, and greedy demanding bitches. I'm still learning the game, but I want to remain as flexible and safe as possible.
Safe mongering!
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I couldn't agree more
[QUOTE=Pessimist;2452391]Who knows they are! Could be anyone. Could be scammers, could even be guys who picked up a few photos off the internet and posing as girls to siphon some easy money from unsuspecting guys. Could be girls who heard about this site, thought they could make some dough and giving it a shot. Could be genuine sugar babes seeking some real connections.
My rule of thumb is that until you meet a girl face to face for even a brief meet and greet, the girl in cyberspace is not that different from an AI bot.[/QUOTE]I'm with you Pessimist.
Until I see a girl in person, she is not real. Simple.
I haven't had any meeting flakes luckily, but SBs turning someone down due to age or perceived richness is interesting. I think that's why it's good to find girls that are new to the scene or that have a reasonable perspective on arrangements. Someone mentioned to stay away from models. This is my rule too. They usually expect too much and want to give too little. I have found success at all ages, but 90% of my girls have been in some kind of school, either grad or undergrad. I had one HS girl contact me, but that's just too weird for me, so I turned her down. She was 18 and willing to travel, but no, it just didn't feel right.
I like to be sure of the girl and meet as soon as reasonably possible after we have decided on an arrangement. I've found that prolonged talk loses their attention, while requesting a meeting really soon stresses their comfort. There's a place in the middle that I've found takes a day or 2 after moving over to whatsapp (for me, it's always European SBs, so I only use whatsapp). If it takes too long after moving to whatsapp, I've seen them just ghost. It seems there are a lot of guys out there only collecting pics and numbers and the girls need to separate you from that group. As I write, I'm kinda in that group right now (damn). LOL. I have a girl in hamburg that I haven't met yet but she has sent me pics. I think she is probably tolerant bc she is new and knows that COVID messed up everything.
Just my $. 02.
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[QUOTE=LshRoomer;2452692]Sebastiane / Fellow Monger.
1. Old Phone (yes, I use a different phone for ALL things monger related) - keeps all your apps: whatsapp, telegram, gvoice, gmail, uber, airbnb, skype.
1 a. Yes, whatsapp, telegram, etc should all be related to your monger gmail / gvoice accounts. All tied together, easy to cut. Again. New accounts for all that stuff, reuse nothing from personal.
2. Google voice number. Use this for whatsapp / telegram / instagram / uber / texting (US).
3. VPN. I already use this in my personal life, so it's not an added expense. Some girls don't like guys that only come to town once every 2 months for a day or two, some are okay with it. VPN allows you to "be in town" on SA whenever you like giving you access to all girls, even the ones that don't like the "only here for 2-3 days business guys" (like me). Once they meet you, they won't care once the $$ starts flowing.[/QUOTE]Great tips and could save a lot of time and lawyers fees in the long run.
1 Question how do you pay for Uber? I presume the credit card linked to Uber is not the card with your 'Real'name. So how do you get a mongering one as most card providers want ID before issuing a card now.
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[QUOTE=Mackapaka;2452707]Great tips and could save a lot of time and lawyers fees in the long run.
1 Question how do you pay for Uber? I presume the credit card linked to Uber is not the card with your 'Real'name. So how do you get a mongering one as most card providers want ID before issuing a card now.[/QUOTE]Mackapaka,
That's a good question. Unfortunately, I haven't found a way around this one. Uber needs a card / phone number / email on file. I've never tried with a prepaid card, so I'm not sure if that would work.
Here is the change that I make. I use uber all over the world via my personal account. In the app, you can change your name. So for the 2nd uber account on the 2nd phone, you would configure it with your monger name. Most people never pay attention to this setting and simply go with their default government name (I would too if I weren't in the sugar world. This world requires more caution). The driver interaction with Uber never references your CC, only your configured name. So when I put "Genghis Khan" as my name, that is what the driver sees and asks for when I enter the car. For me, this is a reasonable risk. Nothing is ever 100% secure. On that same note, if you are really suspicious of the girl (and still decide to see her), use cabs. I've done this too, but mainly when it was faster to grab a cab than call an uber.
And a resounding Hell Yeah to no drama and no lawyer fees!
And guys, on another note. Unless you know her and have some degree of trust. Give them their $$ at the end of the date. Not while you are still out, not before your date, not once you get to your apartment. A girl mentioning that she doesn't do anything physical on the 1st meet after she has money in hand is a scam. This beckons the question of why didn't she say anything before receiving the cash. Not cool! After the deal has been sealed, then let the cash flow, not before. Too many girls are turning to scamming for a quick buck and we got to shut that down!
My $. 02.
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Yes and Make Her Comfortable
[QUOTE=LshRoomer;2452725]Mackapaka,
That's a good question. Unfortunately, I haven't found a way around this one. Uber needs a card / phone number / email on file. I've never tried with a prepaid card, so I'm not sure if that would work.
Here is the change that I make. I use uber all over the world via my personal account. In the app, you can change your name. So for the 2nd uber account on the 2nd phone, you would configure it with your monger name. Most people never pay attention to this setting and simply go with their default government name (I would too if I weren't in the sugar world. This world requires more caution). The driver interaction with Uber never references your CC, only your configured name. So when I put "Genghis Khan" as my name, that is what the driver sees and asks for when I enter the car. For me, this is a reasonable risk. Nothing is ever 100% secure. On that same note, if you are really suspicious of the girl (and still decide to see her), use cabs. I've done this too, but mainly when it was faster to grab a cab than call an uber.
And a resounding Hell Yeah to no drama and no lawyer fees!
And guys, on another note. Unless you know her and have some degree of trust. Give them their $$ at the end of the date. Not while you are still out, not before your date, not once you get to your apartment. A girl mentioning that she doesn't do anything physical on the 1st meet after she has money in hand is a scam. This beckons the question of why didn't she say anything before receiving the cash. Not cool! After the deal has been sealed, then let the cash flow, not before. Too many girls are turning to scamming for a quick buck and we got to shut that down!
My $. 02.[/QUOTE]Pretty much exactly the same setup as Lshroom. Burner phone, 2nd Uber, consistent use of alias etc. As far as paying, as I mentioned before the girls I go with don't want to feel like hookers. So once we talk "gift" via text (days or weeks before meetup) we never discuss again. I always put the money in a card with a hand written note about what a nice time I had. This never comes out beforehand and is never discussed. I've never been asked. We just have sex and it's all good. At the end I will put it in view or near her purse when she's in the bathroom and that is that. Never before. And never discussed. And never given. That's my way.
P.S. I was once with an escort in New Zealand. And we had 2 sessions about a week apart. The second one was so passionate and comfortable that we both forgot about the money! It was two hours later she texted and said babe I think U forgot something! LOL.
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[QUOTE=LshRoomer;2452725]
Here is the change that I make. I use uber all over the world via my personal account. In the app, you can change your name. So for the 2nd uber account on the 2nd phone, you would configure it with your monger name. Most people never pay attention to this setting and simply go with their default government name (I would too if I weren't in the sugar world. This world requires more caution). The driver interaction with Uber never references your CC, only your configured name. So when I put "Genghis Khan" as my name, that is what the driver sees and asks for when I enter the car. For me, this is a reasonable risk. Nothing is ever 100% secure. On that same note, if you are really suspicious of the girl (and still decide to see her), use cabs. I've done this too, but mainly when it was faster to grab a cab than call an uber.
[/QUOTE]Uber could be very compromising. I make a habit of changing my account on a regular basis. I request that they delete the old account which takes them 3 months to destroy the history.
As trendy as Uber is, I am also happy to catch taxis and pay cash.
PP.
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Good ideas on Uber account set up. In India, Uber allows you to pay by cash! You can escape the credit card bit as well.
[QUOTE=LshRoomer;2452725]Mackapaka,
That's a good question. Unfortunately, I haven't found a way around this one. Uber needs a card / phone number / email on file. I've never tried with a prepaid card, so I'm not sure if that would work.
Here is the change that I make. I use uber all over the world via my personal account. In the app, you can change your name. So for the 2nd uber account on the 2nd phone, you would configure it with your monger name. Most people never pay attention to this setting and simply go with their default government name (I would too if I weren't in the sugar world. This world requires more caution). The driver interaction with Uber never references your CC, only your configured name. So when I put "Genghis Khan" as my name, that is what the driver sees and asks for when I enter the car. For me, this is a reasonable risk. Nothing is ever 100% secure. On that same note, if you are really suspicious of the girl (and still decide to see her), use cabs. I've done this too, but mainly when it was faster to grab a cab than call an uber.
And a resounding Hell Yeah to no drama and no lawyer fees!
And guys, on another note. Unless you know her and have some degree of trust. Give them their $$ at the end of the date. Not while you are still out, not before your date, not once you get to your apartment. A girl mentioning that she doesn't do anything physical on the 1st meet after she has money in hand is a scam. This beckons the question of why didn't she say anything before receiving the cash. Not cool! After the deal has been sealed, then let the cash flow, not before. Too many girls are turning to scamming for a quick buck and we got to shut that down!
My $. 02.[/QUOTE]
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Many of you have suggested asking the SA ladies what they're open to before meeting up to avoid wasting time and money. Don't they already kind of provide some hints in their profiles "Seeking" section when they use tags like "Discretion" or "Friends with benefits" (FWB) which is a hint of sex. I've viewed many SA profiles and noticed that some specify FWB while others use the term 'Platonic' which to me is an indication that they're not opened to sex. Is that how you see it?
I have not seen that many 8's or above on SA. I've noticed a lot of female on SA feel a sense of entitlement. Some profile descriptions even explicitly stated that they want to set up some kind of virtual financial arrangement without ever meeting up face-to-face. That must be a joke or scam. They don't seem to understand the meaning of "mutually beneficial". Platonic relationship is not mutually beneficial and is a ripped off. Those SBs interested only in platonic or virtual arrangement are looking for a handout or are gold diggers. Do you guys usually filter out those profiles with the tag 'Platonic' or just don't bother to talk to them even though some of them look pretty hot? FWB is a good hint for you to contact them. Right? Some profiles show both FWB and platonic in their "Seeking". I assume in this case they're open to either way depending on the guys. Many profiles don't even specify what they're seeking at all. What do you all think?
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How about Some Sex!
Lots of great tips and discussion as it should be. Particularly for this underutilized USA gem known as SA. How about some actual sex tho? OK. Here you go!
———.
Met Maria on SA a good two months ago. Most girls won't text this long. Probably 9 out of 10 start strong but then fade after 4 or 5 days. I've found the rare ones that hang with you for a long time are quite fun when you meet up because you feel close already.
Maria and I started plotting about a week back to finally meet up. This being a local meetup I had the hotel question that was recently discussed to contend with. Should I book ahead but what if it's a bust? I'm pretty confident we are going to the hotel but then if it's already booked will she see this as over confidence and feel a bit used. Don't want that either. Sigh.
Finally I think of the Covid excuse and decide it's worth a shot — I ask if we can meet at the hotel to be safe. And she says "if you are comfortable, why not just come to my place?" OK babe it's on! (And saved $125! Sweet!
Maria's apt is actually quite nice. Small but with nice amenities and reasonable furnishings. We have a small embrace and I feel inspired to give her a quick kiss — but I get the cheek. This is no escort. She's going to need a bit of a warmup.
We sit at the cafe table and crack open the bottle of Sangria I've brought. She is not drinking much and is pretty nervous but she's smiling and trying to be very attentive and attractive. I am doing most of the talking but she seems to be enjoying the conversation. I'm wishing she would drink more. LOL.
After maybe 20 minutes of Chit chat I am plotting how to get this party started and that requires closing the gap. So I ask her to put on some music, which she does. Somehow the conversation segues to dancing and I say let's dance and take her hand and pull her into a slow dance embrace. Looking into each other's eyes is the ticket. It just starts to feel natural and not forced.
A kiss. A little deeper kiss. Meeting eyes. A deep French kiss and it's on. My hands start to roam and there is no resistance. Hands on tits. Hand under her skirt feeling the edge of her panty line. Feeling her pussy over her panties. Well I guess I'm doing it right because she suggests we adjourn to the bedroom. Where did shy girl go? Heheheh.
We can still hear the music which provides a great beat for extra curricular activities. We start by just making out a ton. She's not a top 5 kisser (rarefied air that!) but very good. We are both getting more passionate by the minute as clothes are shed.
We start on BBBJ and it's solid if a bit vanilla. She does have great Latina lips to watch and she can take it all the way to the base. Impressive. Lots of in and out. We can (and do) add more variety later.
After maybe ten nice minutes of that we swap it up and I work on her. She's very appreciative as she moans and builds via clit work and some nice fingering and gspot. I can never quite get an earth shattering O but she seems to enjoy it plenty.
Back to BJ for a bit to get me plenty hard and I break out the BareSkin for the coming engagement. Mounting up cowgirl first (I almost always let them start) she rides a good long time and really enjoys herself. Sometimes riding high in the saddle tits bouncing and sometimes chest to chest so she can make out with me. I can feel the passion in her kisses.
Finally we swap over to mish which is very very nice. She's got her legs spread wide and is holding them with her hands so it's full and solid engagement. Some arms extended really driving home and some super nice chest to chest making out. I actually cum while kissing deeply which I don't do often but truly love.
Between rounds we sip Sangria and have a truly nice conversation about everything and nothing. Feels very real. After maybe a half hour I excuse myself to the bathroom and come back ready to rumble!
She is reclining on the pillows so I get right on top and start kissing her deeply. She returns my kiss passionately and it's on again. In this position naked junk to naked Lady parts I assume girls start thinking "is he going to try to bareback me" I never do but I like making them wonder. LOL.
Instead we swap up to more BBBJ. Me on my knees feeling her pussy while she takes it to the hilt in her mouth. I'the given her a bit of direction earlier and she's a good student. So yes a ton of in and out but she's starting to mix it up. Sideways lips up and down the underside. Some good solid BLS. Really quite good tho I am not near cumming.
She's a real trooper and keeps BJing for like 20 minutes no complaints. Honestly it feels great. Just hard to cum a second time. We finally switch to me on back and her between my legs. I like this position best I think and she continues to work. Finally I decide to help a bit and with her on BLS and me on handjob we crank out a nice one. Super slow build so pretty spectacular finish.
We cuddle and chat a bit more and then wrap things up. She's a bit heavier than ideal but what a pretty face. And a really nice girl. Likely repeat.
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FWB and 8's Etc.
[QUOTE=MoneySign;2452901]Many of you have suggested asking the SA ladies what they're open to before meeting up to avoid wasting time and money. Don't they already kind of provide some hints in their profiles "Seeking" section when they use tags like "Discretion" or "Friends with benefits" (FWB) which is a hint of sex. I've viewed many SA profiles and noticed that some specify FWB while others use the term 'Platonic' which to me is an indication that they're not opened to sex. Is that how you see it?
I have not seen that many 8's or above on SA. I've noticed a lot of female on SA feel a sense of entitlement. Some profile descriptions even explicitly stated that they want to set up some kind of virtual financial arrangement without ever meeting up face-to-face. That must be a joke or scam. They don't seem to understand the meaning of "mutually beneficial". Platonic relationship is not mutually beneficial and is a ripped off. Those SBs interested only in platonic or virtual arrangement are looking for a handout or are gold diggers. Do you guys usually filter out those profiles with the tag 'Platonic' or just don't bother to talk to them even though some of them look pretty hot? FWB is a good hint for you to contact them. Right? Some profiles show both FWB and platonic in their "Seeking". I assume in this case they're open to either way depending on the guys. Many profiles don't even specify what they're seeking at all. What do you all think?[/QUOTE]Yes absolutely FWB is your best hunting ground but you will also get the hookers there and might miss some gems if you are exclusively search FWB. My all time favorite who was absolutely a wildcat in bed and clearly down for sex from moment one did not list FWB. Some girls don't want to appear slutty so they don't. So Just understand it's a good clue but you might miss a gem if you are not careful.
I find platonic not worth pursuing. True they are not strictly platonic sometimes but it's a pretty good indicator it's going to be too hard a sell. Never closed the deal with a platonic tagged girl; but developed two rather close platonic penpal relationships that continue to this day (no pay) and I really enjoy these relationships.
There are plenty of 8's and up on SA but it depends on the city. Here are some stats for me:
Vegas: Two eights and a seven.
Miami: Eight.
Detroit: Five. LOL. I was undeterred. Nice girl.
NYC: Eight, seven, six.
Buenos Aires: Eight.
London: Two borderline eight nines.
Southeast USA: No eights in sight. Tons of big fat ugly 2's tho! OMG who dates these girls?
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[QUOTE=MoneySign;2452901]Many of you have suggested asking the SA ladies what they're open to before meeting up to avoid wasting time and money. Don't they already kind of provide some hints in their profiles "Seeking" section when they use tags like "Discretion" or "Friends with benefits" (FWB) which is a hint of sex. I've viewed many SA profiles and noticed that some specify FWB while others use the term 'Platonic' which to me is an indication that they're not opened to sex. Is that how you see it?
I have not seen that many 8's or above on SA. I've noticed a lot of female on SA feel a sense of entitlement. Some profile descriptions even explicitly stated that they want to set up some kind of virtual financial arrangement without ever meeting up face-to-face. That must be a joke or scam. They don't seem to understand the meaning of "mutually beneficial". Platonic relationship is not mutually beneficial and is a ripped off. Those SBs interested only in platonic or virtual arrangement are looking for a handout or are gold diggers. Do you guys usually filter out those profiles with the tag 'Platonic' or just don't bother to talk to them even though some of them look pretty hot? FWB is a good hint for you to contact them. Right? Some profiles show both FWB and platonic in their "Seeking". I assume in this case they're open to either way depending on the guys. Many profiles don't even specify what they're seeking at all. What do you all think?[/QUOTE]Well, even FwB is not a definitive sign that the girl is open to sex. I have run into girls that do have FwB as one of their tags and then told me they are looking for strictly online arrangements. "Why did you say FwB in your profile?" Because, in her mind, sexy videos, pics also count as benefits. I don't mind all of these though. I do wade through tons of girls, and I assume that the conversion ratio (of girls I introduce myself to those that end up having sex with me) is a small percent. Also, you have to remember there are all kinds of men on SA, including those who want just dates, guys who are looking for fetishes such as feet stuff (but not sex), guys who are into S&M but again no sex, guys who just want pics and videos or even just a lot of chatting, and so on. I actually like that they exist and are active on SA. If SA were to be strictly a pay for sex site as Craigslist had become over time or backpage, it would be full of LE and would be shut down.
It is not a surprise that many men seek more than just sex. It even happens in FKKs. Quite a few guys go to the room and have just a covered BJ and no fucking, or do some kinky stuff but not sex, some have sex for 15 min and spend 3 hours playing cards or watching photos, etc. Many men have emotional needs and like to fulfill them either in FKks or with SA girls or wherever else. I am looking for just normal sexual activity with my SA girls or in FKKs, but I do recognize many men have other needs.
I do engage with girls who say they are seeking strictly platonic. I approach any girl whose pics and other specs are attractive to me. I assume what they say in their profile writeup and tags is just a initial marketing schpiel and everything is up for negotiation. If she sticks to the strictly platonic line even after some amount of back and forth, I slowly move away. However, I never ever tell a girl I am looking for sex in any msg but the girl will get the drift.
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[QUOTE=Pessimist;2452922]Well, even FwB is not a definitive sign that the girl is open to sex. I have run into girls that do have FwB as one of their tags and then told me they are looking for strictly online arrangements. "Why did you say FwB in your profile?" Because, in her mind, sexy videos, pics also count as benefits. I don't mind all of these though. I do wade through tons of girls, and I assume that the conversion ratio (of girls I introduce myself to those that end up having sex with me) is a small percent. Also, you have to remember there are all kinds of men on SA, including those who want just dates, guys who are looking for fetishes such as feet stuff (but not sex), guys who are into S&M but again no sex, guys who just want pics and videos or even just a lot of chatting, and so on. I actually like that they exist and are active on SA. If SA were to be strictly a pay for sex site as Craigslist had become over time or backpage, it would be full of LE and would be shut down.
It is not a surprise that many men seek more than just sex. It even happens in FKKs. Quite a few guys go to the room and have just a covered BJ and no fucking, or do some kinky stuff but not sex, some have sex for 15 min and spend 3 hours playing cards or watching photos, etc. Many men have emotional needs and like to fulfill them either in FKks or with SA girls or wherever else. I am looking for just normal sexual activity with my SA girls or in FKKs, but I do recognize many men have other needs.
I do engage with girls who say they are seeking strictly platonic. I approach any girl whose pics and other specs are attractive to me. I assume what they say in their profile writeup and tags is just a initial marketing schpiel and everything is up for negotiation. If she sticks to the strictly platonic line even after some amount of back and forth, I slowly move away. However, I never ever tell a girl I am looking for sex in any msg but the girl will get the drift.[/QUOTE]Right on Pessimist!
I had a girl in London once. After we got to know each other, she sent me a few sexy pics wearing S&M lingerie. When I asked her about it, she mentioned that she had met a few guys that just wanted her to step on their balls or tie them up. Whenever we were together, it was a normal chill session with dinner, drinks, and banging her all night (normal stuff, maybe a bit rough. LOL) and then in the morning. My point is that you have some girls on SA that will suite the many taste of the men they meet.
Concerning platonic, I usually stray away from profiles that have platonic in them. If there is a mention of anything platonic in her profile or during our conversation, I cut her off that second. I know it can be considered harsh but the girls have similar practices. I've had a girl mention 600 eu per meet and when I suggested that that was a bit high, boom, she ghosted me. No responses. I had not considered what Money wrote concerning girls that have platonic and FWB in their profiles. I suppose a gem could be found in those profiles? In the end, I just look at the pics and hit up a girl that appeals to me. The girls I end up with are usually 7-9's. The 9 and 10's are not worth my time as they want too much for too little and they seem to have a sense of entitlement. My aim has been to rope up new girls that are cool to hang out with, and not greedy. There was one girl that I chatted with for some time that told me that she didn't expect for me to buy her stuff. LOL. Never had a chance to meet in person. She was a german 8 ish, which is probably a 7 elsewhere (Not dissing her. I say this as someone that likes german girls). It really comes down to how you hit if off with the girl, her intentions, her experience, and her comfort with experimentation.
I prefer girls that like to go to nice dinners, smoke hookah, hit a cognac / cigar bar (I don't' smoke cigars, but the environment is awesome for the first chat), hit the town, and just want to have a true financial based fwb relationship. To me, this doesn't mean I give you 400 eu every time I see you. This has worked out really well and with those kinds of requirements, the girls I find are usually really cool and not trying to get her hands on my wallet the moment we meet.
Keep the thread going guys, there is a lot of good info and questions being circulated.
My $. 02.
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Breaking up is hard to do
Lots of the girls on SA seem happy with ghosting if the conversation is not going the way they like, easy come, easy go right? A bit like Tinder it's easy to break the link and everything stops. That's the beauty of using kik which doesn't have a link to you or even your burner phone number.
There is a certain amount of excitement for us males to just fuck some exotic beauty then decide she's not that exciting or her house is too far away, or the connection is just not right. I'm fine blocking girls before we meet but how to make a clean exit without making her feel like shit. I don't want her running me down if she sees me crossing the road one day.
A) Brisbane MILF, seen her twice but has logistical problems. Suggested I would not be seeing her again so copped a barrage of abuse.
B) Colombian student, nice, friendly, slack BBBJ. Still asking for $$ even I don't see her.
Anyone got a good method that doesn't turn them into crazy stalkers?
PP.
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Assume that these chics will try to stalk you online.
Have burner phone, little or no social media presence, not using your real name, registering your burner number on true caller with your fake name, getting your primary number removed from Truecaller, not installing any social app on your mobile. These are quite a few. It's a skill that you develop over years. Most importantly, be damn careful while selecting a chic. Use your filters.
[QUOTE=PilotPaul;2453034]Lots of the girls on SA seem happy with ghosting if the conversation is not going the way they like, easy come, easy go right? A bit like Tinder it's easy to break the link and everything stops. That's the beauty of using kik which doesn't have a link to you or even your burner phone number.
There is a certain amount of excitement for us males to just fuck some exotic beauty then decide she's not that exciting or her house is too far away, or the connection is just not right. I'm fine blocking girls before we meet but how to make a clean exit without making her feel like shit. I don't want her running me down if she sees me crossing the road one day.
A) Brisbane MILF, seen her twice but has logistical problems. Suggested I would not be seeing her again so copped a barrage of abuse.
B) Colombian student, nice, friendly, slack BBBJ. Still asking for $$ even I don't see her.
Anyone got a good method that doesn't turn them into crazy stalkers?
PP.[/QUOTE]
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Ghosting and $$ Asks
[QUOTE=PilotPaul;2453034]Lots of the girls on SA seem happy with ghosting if the conversation is not going the way they like, easy come, easy go right? A bit like Tinder it's easy to break the link and everything stops. That's the beauty of using kik which doesn't have a link to you or even your burner phone number.
There is a certain amount of excitement for us males to just fuck some exotic beauty then decide she's not that exciting or her house is too far away, or the connection is just not right. I'm fine blocking girls before we meet but how to make a clean exit without making her feel like shit. I don't want her running me down if she sees me crossing the road one day.
A) Brisbane MILF, seen her twice but has logistical problems. Suggested I would not be seeing her again so copped a barrage of abuse.
B) Colombian student, nice, friendly, slack BBBJ. Still asking for $$ even I don't see her.
Anyone got a good method that doesn't turn them into crazy stalkers?
PP.[/QUOTE]Actually I've learned that ghosting is a kindness and often the lesser of two evils. I first experienced this being on the receiving end of a non-ghosting. Fairly early on with a new girl (who I am penpal friends with still strangley) we exchanged pics. And rather than ghosting she said "I've thought about it and I don't think I could get with someone as old as you. " Ouch. Fuck me in the ass. That hurt! A good solid ghosting would have been much better. So even tho ghosting seems unwelcome it's really the kindest send off.
When a girl asks for $$ while we are apart I shut that down instantly. Not a lot of explanation just "No babe. I don't do long distance dollars. Only in person. " I guess it's may be local but same thing — "I only do gifts when we are together". That said, ghosting works here too. Ask for $ get ghosted. Seems she should get the message.
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Ghosting is a pain when they back off in the last minute. There is one girl who ghosted me once and I never gave her a second chance. She keeps sending whatsapp messages that we should meet etc but I told her that I ain't going to meet her.
[QUOTE=Steve9696;2453090]Actually I've learned that ghosting is a kindness and often the lesser of two evils. I first experienced this being on the receiving end of a non-ghosting. Fairly early on with a new girl (who I am penpal friends with still strangley) we exchanged pics. And rather than ghosting she said "I've thought about it and I don't think I could get with someone as old as you. " Ouch. Fuck me in the ass. That hurt! A good solid ghosting would have been much better. So even tho ghosting seems unwelcome it's really the kindest send off.
When a girl asks for $$ while we are apart I shut that down instantly. Not a lot of explanation just "No babe. I don't do long distance dollars. Only in person. " I guess it's may be local but same thing "I only do gifts when we are together". That said, ghosting works here too. Ask for $ get ghosted. Seems she should get the message.[/QUOTE]
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Last Minute Ghost
[QUOTE=SfoCowboy;2453162]Ghosting is a pain when they back off in the last minute. There is one girl who ghosted me once and I never gave her a second chance. She keeps sending whatsapp messages that we should meet etc but I told her that I ain't going to meet her.[/QUOTE]Oh yeah. Clearly last minute ghosting is uncool. Any last minute tearup is uncool. Never had it with an SA girl but had an escort cancel literally last minute — uncle in an accident. Didn't buy that for two seconds. Was not happy. But only time it happened and she was an Indy. So you get what you pay for.
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[QUOTE=Steve9696;2453090]Actually I've learned that ghosting is a kindness and often the lesser of two evils. I first experienced this being on the receiving end of a non-ghosting. Fairly early on with a new girl (who I am penpal friends with still strangley) we exchanged pics. And rather than ghosting she said "I've thought about it and I don't think I could get with someone as old as you. " Ouch. Fuck me in the ass. That hurt! A good solid ghosting would have been much better. So even tho ghosting seems unwelcome it's really the kindest send off.
When a girl asks for $$ while we are apart I shut that down instantly. Not a lot of explanation just "No babe. I don't do long distance dollars. Only in person. " I guess it's may be local but same thing "I only do gifts when we are together". That said, ghosting works here too. Ask for $ get ghosted. Seems she should get the message.[/QUOTE]This is a fair statement. I was told too old too, that's reality! But money can soothe many things.
In my instance though consider that the girl is still keen to see me, perhaps already planning how to spend this $$ Hell she might even think her BBBJ were great, which they wee not. Just want to finish with her still feeling good.
PP.
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[QUOTE=PilotPaul;2453228]This is a fair statement. I was told too old too, that's reality! But money can soothe many things.
In my instance though consider that the girl is still keen to see me, perhaps already planning how to spend this $$ Hell she might even think her BBBJ were great, which they wee not. Just want to finish with her still feeling good.
PP.[/QUOTE]Don't these ladies realize that it's the older men who have the good, steady flow of money they need? Well the foreign ones around the world outside of the developed western countries do! Going to start getting picky and try to have it all LOL!
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SA is Amazing
I continue to be amazed by how much opportunity there is on SA. I have two cities coming up on my travel schedule when the smoke clears. In city 1 I've had lots of great conversations. But they usually fade after a few days. But I have one smoking hot cutie who chats with me nearly nightly. Sometimes just hey and how ya doing but often more. We have been chatting about three weeks now. Hope we can hold it together.
But here's the thing if we don't there is always another! I was chatting recently with a girl in City 2 and wow she slays me. And the conversation was amazing. Chatty and flirty but a smart girl too. But then apparent ghosting or fade out. I asked her about it and she says thinks it's just not for her. Ok no harm no foul. Not an hour later I snag a new hottie and we are hitting it off great. Shows how persistence pays because she blew me off three weeks ago. But I reengaged and she's looking promising. But guess what? If she tanks there is one right behind her!
It's simply amazing. Of course I love the chase. If you just want to pay some money and fuck, then SA will drive you crazy! I love it tho.
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Cutting to the chase
Yeah, chatting and chase are fun, but how often did you chat someone up real good and then only to find there's no chemistry when you finally meet in person? As soon as I get someone's attention that suits my tastes, I almost always say, "let's meet tonight. " If there's no chemistry at the meeting, then I feel like it saves me a lot of time.
[QUOTE=Steve9696;2453272]I continue to be amazed by how much opportunity there is on SA. I have two cities coming up on my travel schedule when the smoke clears. In city 1 I've had lots of great conversations. But they usually fade after a few days. But I have one smoking hot cutie who chats with me nearly nightly. Sometimes just hey and how ya doing but often more. We have been chatting about three weeks now. Hope we can hold it together.
But here's the thing if we don't there is always another! I was chatting recently with a girl in City 2 and wow she slays me. And the conversation was amazing. Chatty and flirty but a smart girl too. But then apparent ghosting or fade out. I asked her about it and she says thinks it's just not for her. Ok no harm no foul. Not an hour later I snag a new hottie and we are hitting it off great. Shows how persistence pays because she blew me off three weeks ago. But I reengaged and she's looking promising. But guess what? If she tanks there is one right behind her!
It's simply amazing. Of course I love the chase. If you just want to pay some money and fuck, then SA will drive you crazy! I love it tho.[/QUOTE].
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SD age
[QUOTE=TheCane;2453240]Don't these ladies realize that it's the older men who have the good, steady flow of money they need? Well the foreign ones around the world outside of the developed western countries do! Going to start getting picky and try to have it all LOL![/QUOTE]I think some gals just think that at a certain old age for us, it's just a little creepy. Some gals, not all. This is why I think saying that you're in your 40's is the sweet spot.
Speaking of which, I noticed that I cannot revise my age on SA. Is there a way to do it? I couldn't figure it out.
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Just not showing up is the real pain
[QUOTE=SfoCowboy;2453162]Ghosting is a pain when they back off in the last minute. There is one girl who ghosted me once and I never gave her a second chance. She keeps sending whatsapp messages that we should meet etc but I told her that I ain't going to meet her.[/QUOTE]It is simply unbelievable to me how many gals just didn't show up for the date or the meet-and-greet. This is why I stopped making hotel reservations in advance.
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Yep
[QUOTE=Steve9696;2453272]It's simply amazing. Of course I love the chase. If you just want to pay some money and fuck, then SA will drive you crazy! I love it tho.[/QUOTE]This is what I gather. Reminds me of long, long ago when I used to be on sites like Match, eHarmony, etc, but I think it would be far worse on SA. All the wasted time, the ghosting, doctored photos, non-commitment to meet, last minute cancellations for bogus reasons, and then when you do meet, no chemistry. I find the whole sugar baby scene to be quite intriguing, but knowing how I am and what works best for me, I have refrained from dipping a toe into it. But, I was thinking last night. What if places like Brazil and Germany never return to what they were before the pandemic? Or what if all the FKKs and Termas and pick-up joints like Scandallo just close period? Now what are you going to do? Well, I don't know. I'll deal with that if and when it happens. But, I doubt my solution will be to turn to the sugar babes for "help" hehehe!
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That's so fucking true. I never book a hotel in advance when I'm meeting a girl for the first time.
[QUOTE=Midwestern;2453289]It is simply unbelievable to me how many gals just didn't show up for the date or the meet-and-greet. This is why I stopped making hotel reservations in advance.[/QUOTE]
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No Shows Rare
[QUOTE=Midwestern;2453289]It is simply unbelievable to me how many gals just didn't show up for the date or the meet-and-greet. This is why I stopped making hotel reservations in advance.[/QUOTE]Hmmm. This is not been my experience. I have had two no shows out of 20 ish dates which doesn't seem high to me. Both were local. I've never had a "travel" no show. One that flaked was 19 and I was kinda nervous going that low. I find less than 22 to be flakier so no more of that. And the other was super late to the point that I just said forget it. But most girls have been really solid.
My success rate here could be affected by the fact that most girls I see I've been texting a long time with so we both have emotional investment. And I usually send an Uber, which cuts down logistical excuses significantly.
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[QUOTE=Steve9696;2453407]
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And the other was super late to the point that I just said forget it. But most girls have been really solid.
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[/QUOTE]Wondering how late was she? I usually gets super pissed if girl is late. It just kills my mood. Lately this chick who was supposed to see me at 2 pm came around 4 pm. This was a regular of mine, and after this I haven't seen her again and have no plans for future to see again either.
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Good inputs. Talking to a girl for longer time and building some chemistry helps. Sending an Uber is definitely a good idea.
Cheers!
[QUOTE=Steve9696;2453407]Hmmm. This is not been my experience. I have had two no shows out of 20 ish dates which doesn't seem high to me. Both were local. I've never had a "travel" no show. One that flaked was 19 and I was kinda nervous going that low. I find less than 22 to be flakier so no more of that. And the other was super late to the point that I just said forget it. But most girls have been really solid.
My success rate here could be affected by the fact that most girls I see I've been texting a long time with so we both have emotional investment. And I usually send an Uber, which cuts down logistical excuses significantly.[/QUOTE]
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2453289]It is simply unbelievable to me how many gals just didn't show up for the date or the meet-and-greet. This is why I stopped making hotel reservations in advance.[/QUOTE]MW, I had that issue until I made the women text me on the day that they were supposed to arrive and before I do anything. If you even say on a Monday, say let us meet Tuesday, I had a ridiculously high no show rate.
I also have a plan be so if the woman does not show up, I will have a fun activity. I also prefer meeting over coffee to meeting over a meal. I know pretty quickly if a woman is sugar baby material or not.
Meeting over a meal just drags to me especially in the USA. Abroad, I meet the women at my hotel bar or restaurant. There is no cost there at all. Practically speaking, I have limited time abroad, the women know that, and I look to seal the deal more quickly.
Steve's idea with an Uber is a good one. Also, I prefer not to mention a set amount of money abroad. I prefer that women give themselves to me for non-monetary reasons and trust that I will take care of them. That would never work in the USA. I have never seen a woman on SA not agree to a price first, but I encourage men not to do pricing abroad especially where prostitution is legal or accepted. By doing so, you are often defining the woman as a prostitute.
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I found Europe to be very nice for finding SBs. I mentioned earlier that Barcelona was the best for me till date in terms of value for money. I did not try any SB through sa in USA and I'll keep it that way.
[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2453423]MW, I had that issue until I made the women text me on the day that they were supposed to arrive and before I do anything. If you even say on a Monday, say let us meet Tuesday, I had a ridiculously high no show rate.
I also have a plan be so if the woman does not show up, I will have a fun activity. I also prefer meeting over coffee to meeting over a meal. I know pretty quickly if a woman is sugar baby material or not.
Meeting over a meal just drags to me especially in the USA. Abroad, I meet the women at my hotel bar or restaurant. There is no cost there at all. Practically speaking, I have limited time abroad, the women know that, and I look to seal the deal more quickly.
Steve's idea with an Uber is a good one. Also, I prefer not to mention a set amount of money abroad. I prefer that women give themselves to me for non-monetary reasons and trust that I will take care of them. That would never work in the USA. I have never seen a woman on SA not agree to a price first, but I encourage men not to do pricing abroad especially where prostitution is legal or accepted. By doing so, you are often defining the woman as a prostitute.[/QUOTE]
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[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2453423]MW, I had that issue until I made the women text me on the day that they were supposed to arrive and before I do anything. If you even say on a Monday, say let us meet Tuesday, I had a ridiculously high no show rate..[/QUOTE]It comes down to investment. If the girl has only had to send you a few messages at a time that suits her, maybe she even just cut / pastes standard replies, then she has not 'invested' anything in you. She will happily burn you off for whomever is at the top of her queue. The risk is all on us to arrange hotel, turn up on time etc.
I always put it onto the girl to be the one to text me on the day. If she doesn't text then she probably wasn't worth it.
I always laugh when a SB profile says her "time is valuable". She is the one out of work and desperate for cash and yet it the is the SD who can generate free cash within a short time.
It has been a long time since I had a no show in the west.
PP.
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[QUOTE=PilotPaul;2453722]It comes down to investment. If the girl has only had to send you a few messages at a time that suits her, maybe she even just cut / pastes standard replies, then she has not 'invested' anything in you. She will happily burn you off for whomever is at the top of her queue. The risk is all on us to arrange hotel, turn up on time etc.[/QUOTE]I agree and disagree. You're right that if the girl invested some time into you, then she is more likely to show up for the first date. However, there is "a reason" why many of these girls are on SA. For many of them, that reason is because they are not capable people in general. Here are some reasons why some of the gals did not show up for our dates: (1) She accidentally got drunk and passed out. (2) She lost her pet chameleon and had to spend all day looking for it. (3) She got lost. (4) An emergency suddenly popped up. **BTW, reason (4) is a lie almost 100% of the time.
If she were a capable and smart person, then she would show up for our date. After all, it's a date with someone who finds her to be attractive and interesting, and it is with someone that she also presumably finds to attractive and interesting AND is also rich. Why would a competent girl, who needs money, NOT show up? It's because she is a flake. This is just part of the cost of being on SA and hooking up with SBs.
Like I've been saying, if you have time (lots of time), then SA is really, really awesome, but if you don't have time, then pros are more efficient.
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2453763]I agree and disagree. You're right that if the girl invested some time into you, then she is more likely to show up for the first date. However, there is "a reason" why many of these girls are on SA. For many of them, that reason is because they are not capable people in general. Here are some reasons why some of the gals did not show up for our dates: (1) She accidentally got drunk and passed out. (2) She lost her pet chameleon and had to spend all day looking for it. (3) She got lost. (4) An emergency suddenly popped up. **BTW, reason (4) is a lie almost 100% of the time.
If she were a capable and smart person, then she would show up for our date. After all, it's a date with someone who finds her to be attractive and interesting, and it is with someone that she also presumably finds to attractive and interesting AND is also rich. Why would a competent girl, who needs money, NOT show up? It's because she is a flake. This is just part of the cost of being on SA and hooking up with SBs.
Like I've been saying, if you have time (lots of time), then SA is really, really awesome, but if you don't have time, then pros are more efficient.[/QUOTE]According to the girls, there are many scamming men as well on the site. Guys who ask them to meet at a certain place for lunch or dinner but never show up; guys who promise <whatever goodie and never deliver; guys who cheat in other ways.
A while ago, I had sex with a lovely SA girl in a European. City. When I gave her the 200 E that we had agreed upon, she was so happy and said in two prior arrangement meets guys had fucked her and somehow cheated her out of her money. She was so happy, she kept texting me the next 2 days while I was still in the city requesting if we could meet again.
We always hear one sided stories on this site. Girls may have a different take. I hate ghosting as much as anyone else as it had happened to me more than I care for, but we need to take these into stride and remember that SA is just a meeting exchange and there are several thousands of questionable characters on both sides on that side.
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[QUOTE=Pessimist;2453836]According to the girls, there are many scamming men as well on the site. Guys who ask them to meet at a certain place for lunch or dinner but never show up; guys who promise <whatever goodie and never deliver; guys who cheat in other ways.
We always hear one sided stories on this site. Girls may have a different take. I hate ghosting as much as anyone else as it had happened to me more than I care for, but we need to take these into stride and remember that SA is just a meeting exchange and there are several thousands of questionable characters on both sides on that side.[/QUOTE]Yep 100% true. All the girls I talk with say they are overwhelmed with guys who are douches and scammers. I think I get 1000 brownie points for just not being a douche.
Early on in her SB adventures a girl I know very naive went on a date with a guy and didn't agree a price. They had dinner, she slept over and he pointed her to the subway in the morning. No gift. Not one penny. She was so shamed and flustered and didn't know how to confront him about the gift so she just left. Sure, her fault for not being clear. But she was new to it and just a trusting soul. And the dbag took advantage.
So yeah the girls endure their fair share of shit also maybe more.
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+1
[QUOTE=Steve9696;2453407]Hmmm. This is not been my experience. I have had two no shows out of 20 ish dates which doesn't seem high to me. Both were local. I've never had a "travel" no show. One that flaked was 19 and I was kinda nervous going that low. I find less than 22 to be flakier so no more of that. And the other was super late to the point that I just said forget it. But most girls have been really solid.
My success rate here could be affected by the fact that most girls I see I've been texting a long time with so we both have emotional investment. And I usually send an Uber, which cuts down logistical excuses significantly.[/QUOTE]Same here Steve 9696! I haven't experienced a no-show "yet". I'm sure it is bound to happen at some point. I'm a big fan of vetting the girl beforehand. I like certain types of girls personality wise and I'm picky as hell. If a girl doesn't fit the bill, or says or does something strange during our initial chats, I usually let that slide. But a repeat occurrence will probably lead to me ghosting her.
I only use SA when I'm traveling, so I have never had the hotel quandary. I have had some girls show up late, but this doesn't bother me, as I'm usually having a drink and in a nice vibe with an edible LOL. That being said, I do like to have a backup. I usually notify the 2nd girl that we should play it by ear in case I get out of work "late". This has helped significantly in the past. I met a not cool girl in Berlin, and was able to rebound after drinks with a much cooler number 2. All bc of the setup. If you don't call, no problem. You got caught up at work. If the first girl sucks, the backup is waiting (don't wait too long though. This has backfired on me too). The backup isn't always an SA girl. Sometimes, it may be an escort that I've built a rapport with (only 3 cities can I use this scenario). They know that you are busy and work late, so they don't get upset when you can't make it bc you are banging girl #1.
+1 again with Steve 9696. The girls that "pass my test" usually are the ones that like to chat and look forward to your digital flowers over whatsapp and your random pleasantries. This probably cuts down on the "weirdness" as they know your appearance, your personality, your motivation (I always make it clear that you need to be able to hang out. If we are going straight to the bed, then I'm not interested.) and there is some emotional investment built up before you actually meet.
Do you guys see a pattern of any kind regarding the typical no shows? Ex: Young, older, american girls, college girls, don't talk much over whatsapp. Anything.
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Agree that many guys are douches are SA
[QUOTE=Pessimist;2453836]According to the girls, there are many scamming men as well on the site. Guys who ask them to meet at a certain place for lunch or dinner but never show up; guys who promise <whatever goodie and never deliver; guys who cheat in other ways.[/QUOTE]Yep, I know about this. If you are (1) a normal guy, (2) looking for normal fun, and (2) deliver on what you promise (e. G. , payment or whatever else you agreed to), then you are actually pretty rare on SA. So, because there are many douchebags on SA, the gals can get jaded and hardened pretty quickly, and so these douchebags just end up ruining it for guys like us. This is one reason why I like the noobs on SA. But for the seasoned SB on SA, many of them just play a numbers game. They may agree to a bunch of dates, but only finally show up to the ones that seem the most promising. So, I will revise my previous stance on this. Earlier, I said some SBs don't show because they are losers. To be more correct, I should have said that some SBs don't show because they are either losers or because they are savvy and experienced at playing the numbers game.
I should also add that my no-show problem mostly occurs in big cities. In smaller cities, the gals almost always show up for the date.
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2453763]I agree and disagree. You're right that if the girl invested some time into you, then she is more likely to show up for the first date. However, there is "a reason" why many of these girls are on SA. For many of them, that reason is because they are not capable people in general. Here are some reasons why some of the gals did not show up for our dates: (1) She accidentally got drunk and passed out. (2) She lost her pet chameleon and had to spend all day looking for it. (3) She got lost. (4) An emergency suddenly popped up. **BTW, reason (4) is a lie almost 100% of the time.
[/QUOTE]You are very right. Had one girl on Monday, supposed to message for an initial coffee, when I check with her on Tuesday it turns out she had some home catastrophe and never recovered. Who knows, maybe she was a bit hangover or had a better offer.
Some girls are harder work than others. He social ones I am sure do get laid more often. The hard work ones maybe give up or maybe stay with the one SD for longer.
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Incall or outcall contact
Anyone has any in call or outcall contact?
I am not single so don't have time or wine or dine the girl. Just need quick in-and-our service for a pre-agreed set price.
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[QUOTE=BrooklynCyclone;2454031]Anyone has any in call or outcall contact?
I am not single so don't have time or wine or dine the girl. Just need quick in-and-our service for a pre-agreed set price.[/QUOTE]You are looking for an escort. Wrong forum buddy.
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[QUOTE=BrooklynCyclone;2454031]Anyone has any in call or outcall contact?
I am not single so don't have time or wine or dine the girl. Just need quick in-and-our service for a pre-agreed set price.[/QUOTE]Sorry, this is a direct violation of SA letter and spirit.
1. If a current SA subscriber does accept your request and send the contact for a girl at a preset price, the girl is nothing more than a prostitute and that subscriber is a pimp. Yes, one does not have to receive monetary compensation to be called a pimp, prestige, a future favor owed, and other intangible motives can also be counted as compensation and yes the guy is still a pimp in my view.
2. SA site explicitly prohibits prostitution. I personally have never had any arrangements with girls who I knew to be prostitutes. We can debate all night long, but there is a finite amount of front end chat / discussion / meet / negotiation of terms / expectations of repeat meets etc before a girl and guy have sex. It is not "agree on price, a flat fixed price for all men, fuck and go, and no expectations of repeat meets". If SA were to be such a site, I would leave in a jiffy. There are other sites for those things and I have not subscribed to them. That is not to say I am against prostitution, I am clearly a patron of FKKs in DE for several years, but the key is legal.
3. Practically speaking, if any girl that I had personally had an arrangement with in the past or talking to now -- if I passed around her contact to friends and acquaintances and people I hardly know on the internet as if she was a prostitute for ready hiring, almost all of them would block me instantaneously, and likely report me to SA moderator and to any others they can think of. This is based on what I know of them personally.
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Look at P411
[QUOTE=BrooklynCyclone;2454031]Anyone has any in call or outcall contact?
I am not single so don't have time or wine or dine the girl. Just need quick in-and-our service for a pre-agreed set price.[/QUOTE]You should look into P411. Not sure if they are accepting new members. It's a little scary at first. You have to give them your drivers license details and they do a quick discreet employment check. Supposedly they don't keep any info other than a few keys to unique identify you.
Did this 5 years ago maybe and no issues after initial setup. Hey he great thing about is it's a vetted marketplace. The guys are known to be safe and non LE for the girls and the girls likewise vetted and not LE. There are no reviews. Just "okays" but it's very assuring to know the provider is legit. I have had some very nice experiences.
And I would Highly recommend ChristineGFE in Phoenix who has her own website. But she will need P411 or otherwise need to verify you before she invites you to her rather nice apartment.
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[QUOTE=BrooklynCyclone;2454031]Anyone has any in call or outcall contact?
I am not single so don't have time or wine or dine the girl. Just need quick in-and-our service for a pre-agreed set price.[/QUOTE]Because our normal channels are closed at the moment, everyone is looking for the convenience of a known deal without having to do the leg work. The SA scene has exploded recently as a way to put men and (mostly) women together within the rules of the new normal.
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Plenty o Hookers
[QUOTE=PilotPaul;2454217]Because our normal channels are closed at the moment, everyone is looking for the convenience of a known deal without having to do the leg work. The SA scene has exploded recently as a way to put men and (mostly) women together within the rules of the new normal.[/QUOTE]Oh I should have said SA works perfectly well for "no time to wine and dine". There are tons of girls on there that take $300 or $400 for An hour of standard hooker services. I just don't seek them out.
Search Friend with Benefits. Have some light convo. Take her offline to text. Ask her her Ppm. Simple.
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[QUOTE=Steve9696;2454222]Oh I should have said SA works perfectly well for "no time to wine and dine". There are tons of girls on there that take $300 or $400 for An hour of standard hooker services. I just don't seek them out.
Search Friend with Benefits. Have some light convo. Take her offline to text. Ask her her Ppm. Simple.[/QUOTE]It is perfectly acceptable to do one's own search after purchasing SA subscription, talk to anyone you fancy and do a ppm one time meet and fuck or whatever.
From Brooklyn's post, I understood that he didn't have his own subscription to SA and merely wanting the contact of one or a few girls who were already vetted, provide ppm services and he was looking for the contact of such girls. I think it would be objectionable for any subscriber to pass on contacts in such a manner.
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[QUOTE=Steve9696;2454222]
Search Friend with Benefits. Have some light convo. Take her offline to text. Ask her her Ppm. Simple.[/QUOTE]Perhaps the OP was hoping not to pay the membership and thus does not have messaging.
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I agree with you. SA contacts are not for sharing. Will make us pimps in some form or the other.
[QUOTE=Pessimist;2454128]Sorry, this is a direct violation of SA letter and spirit.
1. If a current SA subscriber does accept your request and send the contact for a girl at a preset price, the girl is nothing more than a prostitute and that subscriber is a pimp. Yes, one does not have to receive monetary compensation to be called a pimp, prestige, a future favor owed, and other intangible motives can also be counted as compensation and yes the guy is still a pimp in my view.
2. SA site explicitly prohibits prostitution. I personally have never had any arrangements with girls who I knew to be prostitutes. We can debate all night long, but there is a finite amount of front end chat / discussion / meet / negotiation of terms / expectations of repeat meets etc before a girl and guy have sex. It is not "agree on price, a flat fixed price for all men, fuck and go, and no expectations of repeat meets". If SA were to be such a site, I would leave in a jiffy. There are other sites for those things and I have not subscribed to them. That is not to say I am against prostitution, I am clearly a patron of FKKs in DE for several years, but the key is legal.
3. Practically speaking, if any girl that I had personally had an arrangement with in the past or talking to now -- if I passed around her contact to friends and acquaintances and people I hardly know on the internet as if she was a prostitute for ready hiring, almost all of them would block me instantaneously, and likely report me to SA moderator and to any others they can think of. This is based on what I know of them personally.[/QUOTE]
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Yeah No
[QUOTE=PilotPaul;2454249]Perhaps the OP was hoping not to pay the membership and thus does not have messaging.[/QUOTE]Oops duh. If that was the point of the question all the other posts have covered this well. In brief, No. So wrong in so many ways.
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Thesis
It takes a while to read this, but it is really good.
A female Canadian law student did her Master's Thesis on Sugaring, and she really asked good questions to the ladies and explored their thinking, which involves a mindset that they are on a higher caste than an escort. Being someone who loves escorts, I disagree with that conclusion, but being someone who repeats a lot with specific escorts, I understand the benefits of getting to know someone over time.
[URL]https://curve.carleton.ca/system/files/etd/5186cf8e-fca9-4e98-8bc5-36239cf1cdf3/etd_pdf/6661a3fe8ba3152811f0f9272f783855/daly-sugarbabiesandsugardaddiesanexplorationof.pdf[/URL]
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[QUOTE=Mongerer88;2454338]It takes a while to read this, but it is really good.
A female Canadian law student did her Master's Thesis on Sugaring, and she really asked good questions to the ladies and explored their thinking, which involves a mindset that they are on a higher caste than an escort. Being someone who loves escorts, I disagree with that conclusion, but being someone who repeats a lot with specific escorts, I understand the benefits of getting to know someone over time.
[URL]https://curve.carleton.ca/system/files/etd/5186cf8e-fca9-4e98-8bc5-36239cf1cdf3/etd_pdf/6661a3fe8ba3152811f0f9272f783855/daly-sugarbabiesandsugardaddiesanexplorationof.pdf[/URL][/QUOTE]Thank you. Will read through it, as you say it is a long enough book to read cover to cover. I am curious why you disagree that sugar babes are different from escorts (if it is the higher caste part you disagree with, then I am fine because I do not believe in any caste aspect to this). Not sure if you have actively use sugar babes and how those experiences were and did you think there was no difference whatsoever between hiring an escort and getting to be with a sugar babe? I have used both, and I think they are day and night apart. Not that one is better or more moral, etc, just very different. As someone who has used prostitutes extensively, I am not defensive about sugar babes nor do I "feel a need to defend their honor". Just that every thing feels very different. The amount of time it takes to snag one, the large amount of front end chat / discussion / meet and greet, the wooing, etc. The fact that I can be rejected, and I have been rejected tons of times. The fact that many sugar babes, especially the good ones have so many choices and can choose what they want, and reject all of the men if none suit their requirements. The fact that there is no preset pricing -- between sugar babes, by the same sugar with different men if she chose to be with more than one man, or even between the same sugar babe-SD combo which can change week to week. The fact that so many sugar babes do remain strictly online, or strictly platonic and still obtain a good amount of business. We can go on and on.
The Canadian sugar babe brings up the emotional side of the equation into discussion. That is a different beast altogether, but again sets SB-SD arrangement apart from a traditional escort / tute relationship. I have been strictly physical relationship type, but I know that many men engage with these girls for a variety of needs, and only a fraction of them involve sexual needs.
I would define SB-SD arrangement as one where they come together in a marketplace, and decide to form a loose contract that involves quid pro quo -- the exchanged goods and services that flow in either direction could be a variety of things, and cover a wide gamut. Each individual contract can be and usually is different.
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[QUOTE=Mongerer88;2454338]It takes a while to read this, but it is really good.
A female Canadian law student did her Master's Thesis on Sugaring, and she really asked good questions to the ladies and explored their thinking, which involves a mindset that they are on a higher caste than an escort. Being someone who loves escorts, I disagree with that conclusion, but being someone who repeats a lot with specific escorts, I understand the benefits of getting to know someone over time.
[URL]https://curve.carleton.ca/system/files/etd/5186cf8e-fca9-4e98-8bc5-36239cf1cdf3/etd_pdf/6661a3fe8ba3152811f0f9272f783855/daly-sugarbabiesandsugardaddiesanexplorationof.pdf[/URL][/QUOTE]BTW, this is a very good read. I have yet to finish the whole thing. He sections related to legality of sugar dating, how LE might view this, the views of some legal scholars and practical issues involved are all fascinating to read. Thank you for forwarding this very interesting work.
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Southern California Experience
I been playing with two women.
They are both educated and vegans. There is not an ounce of fat on either one. One is an Instagram influencer and a college student. I get off on her intellectually. The other is an actress who has IMDB credits.
The college student kept saying we can be friends. We can be friends until I found her number. I guaranteed her four sessions at $500 per session. She can pull out if she wants. So now it's FWB. In bed, she is inexperienced.
The actress told me she gets $600 per session from her last sugar daddy. But she also knows massage. So she comes over for $250 for two hours. She has been making out with me for the last part of the massage. She dresses sexy. She is around 30 so she just might let me fuck her one day just because she likes me. The making out became closer to heavy petting last time.
Both women are foreigners. The Eurogirl told me that she could bring Europe to me when I said that I was sad I couldn't travel to Europe this year.
So I am finding Southern California to be very expensive. But these women are quality. They can really hold a conversation. They would be interesting just to date. I think better than I found in the FKKs or in Spain. I don't get the impression that they are fucking a large multiple of guys. But they could be great actresses.
Anyway I am spending my vacation money on them. They took a while to find on Seeking. There are more than a few hookers on there at least in Southern California. I am a senior citizen so playing with young attractive intelligent women is fun.
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Forgot to say -- I found it interesting that there are 7,000 sugar mommies and 100,000 male sugar babes. In contrast, there are 509 K female sugar babes and 115 K male sugar daddies. Sugar mommies really do have their pick, don't they? A ratio of 14 to 1! For us male daddies, it is only 4. 4 babes to one daddy, hehe. Also, the ratio has become worse for us over time -- in 2012, per this report, there were 22 K daddies and 205 K babes, now it is 115 K daddies and 509 K babes. I guess word has gotten out and a lot of daddies have joined the site. That said, I am not sure if this woman Sarah Daly has counted only paying subscriber daddies or all daddies. Many men simply register on the site, ogle the photos and never have the messaging ability. I would not count them if it were up to me.
I have observed that in my 4+ years, the number of babes have increased in my home city. That gives me satisfaction because I feel like I have more choices. What I do not see though is how many other men are there on the site competing with me for attention from the same girls. This study makes it clear that in fact, the ratio of men / women has become worse for us men. This is assuming that the trends in USA mimic the trends in Canada which is the basis for this thesis.
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Props Big Boss Man!
If I recall it was just a few weeks back when you were dabbling and asking advice. And now you have engaged! Bravo! And welcome to the club. It's warm and wet inside. 😋.
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I wasn't being critical, I just view this entire industry as a game. Different people enjoy different aspects of the game, but I have observed over time (especially on other some other boards) that some guys seem to feel a superiority by having a successful Sugar Daddy relationship, in comparison to guys who see a tremendous number of traditional sex workers for short-time sessions. I just figure that we all enjoy different aspects of the experience and that we are all the same. No one being better than anyone else, so I can't accept that perception of superiority. A number of escorts have posted their amusement about this very topic. They have friends who are Sugar Babies who occasionally forget and make snide comments about how they don't have sex with just anyone.
I used to occasionally see a touring escort in Chicago who worked with a big agency there that offered incall and outcall. Our travel paths crossed from time to time. She was half Brazilian and half-Japanese. A cool girl and a great fuck. She lived in Las Vegas and flew to Chicago once every month or two. She was popular enough in Chicago that she saw enough guys to constitute Debbie Does Chicago. In Vegas, it was a different story. She didn't want to work too much since she had family, but she managed to get to know concierge folks at the most expensive hotels and clubs. She said she had become popular among the Japanese "whales" and she got an outrageous hourly rate when the concierge guys privately set her up for extended dates with the most select clientele. Pretty sure she didn't tell the whales that she re-enacts Debbie Does Chicago every month or two. She gave them the impression of Exclusivity that they wanted and paid for.
Limited Availability and Exclusivity are very good marketing tools. And for that matter, so is anticipation and hype. And so is the feeling of winning in a Game of Chance. I think Sugaring has all of that, and I am glad people enjoy it. We all find the aspects of The Game that gives each of us the most enjoyment. But I think it is all A Game.
[QUOTE=Pessimist;2454413]Thank you. Will read through it, as you say it is a long enough book to read cover to cover. I am curious why you disagree that sugar babes are different from escorts (if it is the higher caste part you disagree with, then I am fine because I do not believe in any caste aspect to this). Not sure if you have actively use sugar babes and how those experiences were and did you think there was no difference whatsoever between hiring an escort and getting to be with a sugar babe? I have used both, and I think they are day and night apart. Not that one is better or more moral, etc, just very different. As someone who has used prostitutes extensively, I am not defensive about sugar babes nor do I "feel a need to defend their honor". Just that every thing feels very different. The amount of time it takes to snag one, the large amount of front end chat / discussion / meet and greet, the wooing, etc. The fact that I can be rejected, and I have been rejected tons of times. The fact that many sugar babes, especially the good ones have so many choices and can choose what they want, and reject all of the men if none suit their requirements. The fact that there is no preset pricing -- between sugar babes, by the same sugar with different men if she chose to be with more than one man, or even between the same sugar babe-SD combo which can change week to week. The fact that so many sugar babes do remain strictly online, or strictly platonic and still obtain a good amount of business. We can go on and on..[/QUOTE]
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My experience with SA
I've been using SA off and on since August with mixed results. Lots of scammers. Don't ever send any money to somebody before you meet them. I drop anybody who asks for money ahead of time. Lately, lots of mediocre sex. If I wanted mediocre and unfulfilling sex there are easier venues to get it, cheaper as well. I have met one redhead who is really sweet and if she wasn't such a flake I might ask her if she wants to be a bit more. I've met another lady with a body that really turns me on, but she is really bad at sex. In fact I've been really disappointed in the quality of sex I've been finding lately.
Other things, there are a lot of Filipinas and Venezuelans who have been marking me as a favorite. Mostly they want to sell photos and videos. Not really my thing, but it's aggravating when they get all pissed off about it.
I've actually had some nice exchanges with other ladies even though we haven't gotten together. There's one in Kiev I plan to contact before my next trip there.
All in all, the quality of women seems to be going down, but the number who are getting hungry because of the shutdown has gone up. It's a bit of a tossup whether I want to meet some of them or just go to the Asian Massage place a few blocks away. I will say it looks like a good way to contact women before leaving on a trip, so overall it has been worth it.
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SA scams
I've been on the SA as a premium member for 3 days and already ran into SA scams. I've heard of SA for some years now and after reading this group, I got the nerve to sign up.
Webcam Scam:
One hot looking chick favorited me. Profile says she wants online only during the COVID-19 crisis. I asked if she does webcams shows and she said she does. Negotiated $60 for 30 minutes including her using toys. She asked my donation be in the form of an Amazon gift card and I give half first. I told her let's just do the show and a few hours later we connected through Skype. She said she was getting ready on her end. Asked for me to send the Amazon gift card to her first. I stalled her asking her to start the came first. She insisted. But I replied, "No dude is going to send cash before seeing you on the camera". I waited 10+ minutes but all communications stopped. Then she deleted her SA profile. Waste of maybe 1 HR total of my time from initial chat to end of Skype chat.
GAGA-HI Scam:
Got like two or three Asian chicks favorite me. Conversation is cute and sweet. But eventually they ask for you to sign up on an Asian dating website [URL]www.gagahi.com[/URL]. I'm pretty sure this is a scam and they get referral money for it.
General Suspicious Behavior:
Hot girls that just signed up to SA the same day or days prior add me to their favorites. They can be all over the world too. I won't even entertain them now having learned my lesson.
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Thanks so much for your report. You're a new SA Sugar Daddy and already getting all this hot action? Congrats. I've started 3 days and already bummed out. I'm up in and. Cal.
I would definitely give $600 PPM for this hot SB. Check out that ass!
[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmh62d6XD7[/URL]
[QUOTE=BigBossMan;2454423]I been playing with two women.
They are both educated and vegans. There is not an ounce of fat on either one. One is an Instagram influencer and a college student. I get off on her intellectually. The other is an actress who has IMDB credits.
The college student kept saying we can be friends. We can be friends until I found her number. I guaranteed her four sessions at $500 per session. She can pull out if she wants. So now it's FWB. In bed, she is inexperienced.
The actress told me she gets $600 per session from her last sugar daddy. But she also knows massage. So she comes over for $250 for two hours. She has been making out with me for the last part of the massage. She dresses sexy. She is around 30 so she just might let me fuck her one day just because she likes me. The making out became closer to heavy petting last time.
Both women are foreigners. The Eurogirl told me that she could bring Europe to me when I said that I was sad I couldn't travel to Europe this year.
So I am finding Southern California to be very expensive. But these women are quality. They can really hold a conversation. They would be interesting just to date. I think better than I found in the FKKs or in Spain. I don't get the impression that they are fucking a large multiple of guys. But they could be great actresses..[/QUOTE]
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Thesis on sugaring
Thanks for posting this. I like reading this stuff. I just finished skimming the whole thing. However, I was a bit disappointed with the thesis, but not because it wasn't a good thesis (I thought it was very good, but good from an academic criteria), but because I didn't learn that much from it. Most of it is academic, meaning that it presents a lot of statistics (some flawed, but I won't bother going into details on this) and the discussions were largely theoretical (I know this is typical for an academic thesis, but for self-serving reasons I was hoping to learn something practical and useful). As for the analyses, it is based on a textual analysis of the forums on SA and supplemented by interviews with 2 SBs. For anyone that does research, it is well known that interviewing only 2 people is too small a sample, which is obvious, BUT, more importantly, there is also a major self-selection bias problem (I. E. , we are only getting the insights from 2 SBs that would volunteer to be interviewed, and so we are not getting insights from a representative random population of SBs, which would obviously be more meaningful and insightful). So, for me, I actually learned more about SA on this ISG thread, and from my own discussions with the SBs that I met and am still friends with.
[QUOTE=Mongerer88;2454338]It takes a while to read this, but it is really good.
A female Canadian law student did her Master's Thesis on Sugaring, and she really asked good questions to the ladies and explored their thinking, which involves a mindset that they are on a higher caste than an escort. Being someone who loves escorts, I disagree with that conclusion, but being someone who repeats a lot with specific escorts, I understand the benefits of getting to know someone over time.
[URL]https://curve.carleton.ca/system/files/etd/5186cf8e-fca9-4e98-8bc5-36239cf1cdf3/etd_pdf/6661a3fe8ba3152811f0f9272f783855/daly-sugarbabiesandsugardaddiesanexplorationof.pdf[/URL][/QUOTE]
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[QUOTE=Mongerer88;2454441]I wasn't being critical, I just view this entire industry as a game. Different people enjoy different aspects of the game, but I have observed over time (especially on other some other boards) that some guys seem to feel a superiority by having a successful Sugar Daddy relationship, in comparison to guys who see a tremendous number of traditional sex workers for short-time sessions. I just figure that we all enjoy different aspects of the experience and that we are all the same. No one being better than anyone else, so I can't accept that perception of superiority. A number of escorts have posted their amusement about this very topic. They have friends who are Sugar Babies who occasionally forget and make snide comments about how they don't have sex with just anyone.
I used to occasionally see a touring escort in Chicago who worked with a big agency there that offered incall and outcall. Our travel paths crossed from time to time. She was half Brazilian and half-Japanese. A cool girl and a great fuck. She lived in Las Vegas and flew to Chicago once every month or two. She was popular enough in Chicago that she saw enough guys to constitute Debbie Does Chicago. In Vegas, it was a different story..[/QUOTE]Yes, I agree with pretty much all you said. If a girl can create a feeling of luxury and exclusivity, the price hike can be considerable. I have seen you post on German FKK threads, so you know this. Prices in Swiss clubs are nearly 2 to 3 times the prices in German clubs. A number of girls have a rotating door between Germany and SUI, and some guys patronize both sets of clubs. I can understand why you would pay 150 for the same girl in Swiss clubs if you could fuck her for 50 in DE. If it is that you just happened to be in SUI for a couple of days for business and don't care about excess price, then that is fine but we are talking about sex tourists who intentionally fly to Swiss clubs seeking out some specific girls who used t work in DE clubs. I find that irrational.
I have occasionally looked into escorting with porn stars. But I can't justify their price tags, which are 4 to 6 times what I pay to a normal sugar babe who is just as good looking. From the POV of a porn star, she went into porn precisely because she can get her name out and command a large premium. But I refuse to pay such a premium.
As for guys feeling superior about sugar babes vs escorts. That is something to be ignored. Human beings always have a need for self affirmation. Whatever it is that they do, they feel that is superior, better. I think we should cut people some slack and let them feel better about themselves if it causes no harm to anyone else.
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Simple Rule
[QUOTE=Wupoer;2454469]I've been on the SA as a premium member for 3 days and already ran into SA scams. I've heard of SA for some years now and after reading this group, I got the nerve to sign up.
Webcam Scam:
One hot looking chick favorited me. Profile says she wants online only during the COVID-19 crisis. I asked if she does webcams shows and she said she does. Negotiated $60 for 30 minutes including her using toys. She asked my donation be in the form of an Amazon gift card and I give half first. I told her let's just do the show and a few hours later we connected through Skype. She said she was getting ready on her end. Asked for me to send the Amazon gift card to her first. I stalled her asking her to start the came first. She insisted. But I replied, "No dude is going to send cash before seeing you on the camera". I waited 10+ minutes but all communications stopped. Then she deleted her SA profile. Waste of maybe 1 HR total of my time from initial chat to end of Skype chat.
GAGA-HI Scam:
Got like two or three Asian chicks favorite me. Conversation is cute and sweet. But eventually they ask for you to sign up on an Asian dating website [URL]www.gagahi.com[/URL]. I'm pretty sure this is a scam and they get referral money for it.
General Suspicious Behavior:
Hot girls that just signed up to SA the same day or days prior add me to their favorites. They can be all over the world too. I won't even entertain them now having learned my lesson.[/QUOTE]Simple rule. Ignore anyone who favorites you. Don't respond. Just delete the chat. Any girl worth being with will NOT be pursuing you. You make the first move and ignore all who come to you first.
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Better than You
[QUOTE=Pessimist;2454574]Yes, I agree with pretty much all you said. If a girl can create a feeling of luxury and exclusivity, the price hike can be considerable. I have seen you post on German FKK threads, so you know this. Prices in Swiss clubs are nearly 2 to 3 times the prices in German clubs. A number of girls have a rotating door between Germany and SUI, and some guys patronize both sets of clubs. I can understand why you would pay 150 for the same girl in Swiss clubs if you could fuck her for 50 in DE. If it is that you just happened to be in SUI for a couple of days for business and don't care about excess price, then that is fine but we are talking about sex tourists who intentionally fly to Swiss clubs seeking out some specific girls who used t work in DE clubs. I find that irrational.
I have occasionally looked into escorting with porn stars. But I can't justify their price tags, which are 4 to 6 times what I pay to a normal sugar babe who is just as good looking. From the POV of a porn star, she went into porn precisely because she can get her name out and command a large premium. But I refuse to pay such a premium.
As for guys feeling superior about sugar babes vs escorts. That is something to be ignored. Human beings always have a need for self affirmation. Whatever it is that they do, they feel that is superior, better. I think we should cut people some slack and let them feel better about themselves if it causes no harm to anyone else.[/QUOTE]Haha there is even a level above this. Japanese Nanpa / POA. These guys have some amazing tips and techniques on how to close the deal. And I've found these useful on occasion— like the girl in Vegas who said "I can't sleep with a guy I just met" and yet we were fucking 20 minutes later. LOL. But I digress. Point is sometimes I participate in their forum because I find it interesting. But I invariably get looked down on because SB is cheating and real men never pay. LOL. Okay if that makes you feel better. Meanwhile I will use my $$ to every advantage I can!
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[QUOTE=Wupoer;2454471]Thanks so much for your report. You're a new SA Sugar Daddy and already getting all this hot action? Congrats. I've started 3 days and already bummed out. I'm up in and. Cal.
I would definitely give $600 PPM for this hot SB. Check out that ass!
[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmh62d6XD7[/URL][/QUOTE]It took more than three days. The younger woman met me then we went back and forth for about three weeks. She just wanted to be friends. I did not want to be engaged in a bunch of tease. I recommend watching the movie "That Obscure Object of Desire" to show what tease can do to a man.
Then I found a number she was willing to do FWB. But even she then pushed for $600. I sense she is a little short of cash right now. We will see how the second meeting goes. Maybe the sex will get better as she becomes more comfortable. I am also using the technique of paying her on Monday morning so it doesn't feel as transactional. She could ghost me and keep the $500. I am trying to build trust and the friendship part which seems important to her.
The older one was not going to her page on Seeking but then she saw that I liked her after about three weeks. She seems a little more sensual.
It is almost unfortunate that two shook out at the same time because now I will be over budget for June. I might have to drop one in July. I have not perfected anything yet.
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Men
[QUOTE=Steve9696;2454606]But I invariably get looked down on because SB is cheating and real men never pay. LOL.[/QUOTE]Real men have a glass of milk with their dinner if that's what they want to drink. And they pay for pussy, and will openly state that they do so in the appropriate forums. Society attempts to shame us and sexually enslave us, but we have found a way to be sexually free. Only phony men try to hide and deny what they do, while putting on a 100% front for society as a "family" man. I've fucked more pretty girls in the ass than these men will get even pussy. And I'm talking about over the course of their entire lifetimes! I was talking to a guy on another site, who was telling me about a swinger party that he attended with his wife and a male friend. He said that I should go, and how his friend had fucked 8 women in the ass, and how he was envious as he had not done that many women in the butt in his entire middle-aged life. Just looked at my screen and shook my head and laughed! Ha! I guess it's true that you become what your priorities are LOL! The bottom line is that we mongers don't let the sexual mores of society keep us down and sexually enslaved. There is a way to go about mongering that is safe, moral, sanitary and correct, and we can't let the uptight, stifled pinheads and blockheads of society tell us no, or try to make us feel bad about ourselves. Even marriage is a screwed up institution if you ask me. So, they can talk all they want to about "real men don't pay". But we're getting some "real sex". And a lot of it too LOL! I know that much. Well maybe not right at the moment, but you know what I mean. Carry on men! Be it SA or whatever. Keep getting it!
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Meet the Author
[QUOTE=Mongerer88;2454338]It takes a while to read this, but it is really good.
A female Canadian law student did her Master's Thesis on Sugaring, and she really asked good questions to the ladies and explored their thinking, which involves a mindset that they are on a higher caste than an escort. Being someone who loves escorts, I disagree with that conclusion, but being someone who repeats a lot with specific escorts, I understand the benefits of getting to know someone over time.
[URL]https://curve.carleton.ca/system/files/etd/5186cf8e-fca9-4e98-8bc5-36239cf1cdf3/etd_pdf/6661a3fe8ba3152811f0f9272f783855/daly-sugarbabiesandsugardaddiesanexplorationof.pdf[/URL][/QUOTE]I couldn't resist finding out more details about Ms Daley -- pretty impressive & a redhead to boot!: [URL]https://carleton-ca.academia.edu/SarahDaly[/URL].
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[QUOTE=BigBossMan;2454610]
Then I found a number she was willing to do FWB. But even she then pushed for $600. I sense she is a little short of cash right now. We will see how the second meeting goes. Maybe the sex will get better as she becomes more comfortable. I am also using the technique of paying her on Monday morning so it doesn't feel as transactional. She could ghost me and keep the $500. I am trying to build trust and the friendship part which seems important to her.
.[/QUOTE]It will definitely get better each time. Don't forget also — suppose you know this — that women and men are completely different. Once we cum we want to be left alone. But my experience with women is if you can make her cum she will do anything you want after that. So make sure to make her happy. And the rest will follow. And don't be afraid to direct a bit. These Newbie girls are generally quite submissive. I am pretty much 100% for having to say "can you lick and suck down here" indicating my balls. And 100% success for them diving in with gusto.
Good luck in your adventures.
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[QUOTE=Steve9696;2454604]Simple rule. Ignore anyone who favorites you. Don't respond. Just delete the chat. Any girl worth being with will NOT be pursuing you. You make the first move and ignore all who come to you first.[/QUOTE]Good advice. Also, suspicious is their join date is the same day! Or just a few days prior. I think, even if reaching out to a girl, I would be apprehensive on such a short join date.
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[QUOTE=Droog;2454443]I've been using SA off and on since August with mixed results. Lots of scammers. Don't ever send any money to somebody before you meet them. I drop anybody who asks for money ahead of time. Lately, lots of mediocre sex. If I wanted mediocre and unfulfilling sex there are easier venues to get it, cheaper as well. I have met one redhead who is really sweet and if she wasn't such a flake I might ask her if she wants to be a bit more. I've met another lady with a body that really turns me on, but she is really bad at sex. In fact I've been really disappointed in the quality of sex I've been finding lately.
Other things, there are a lot of Filipinas and Venezuelans who have been marking me as a favorite. Mostly they want to sell photos and videos. Not really my thing, but it's aggravating when they get all pissed off about it.
I've actually had some nice exchanges with other ladies even though we haven't gotten together. There's one in Kiev I plan to contact before my next trip there.
All in all, the quality of women seems to be going down, but the number who are getting hungry because of the shutdown has gone up. It's a bit of a tossup whether I want to meet some of them or just go to the Asian Massage place a few blocks away. I will say it looks like a good way to contact women before leaving on a trip, so overall it has been worth it.[/QUOTE]Thanks for your account of your SA experience. The number of flakes and scams is frightening.
Also the Covid crisis is having strange effects. On the one hand, girls may be apprehensive about meeting up physically. On the other hand, many girls in this age group have lost a lot of income and the crisis isn't even over yet. These could be ghetto girls to even quality educated girls like dental assistants. My last dental visit had a hot Filipino assistant I wanted to bang the first time I saw her.
I'm with you. I can get quality Asian (Korean "k-girl") pussy where I am that is consistently good and very often bareback too. I do that weekly. So not even sure why I'm on SA other than trying to arbitrage a unique world-wide environment and trying to get some quality white girl action.
My current strategy is to filter for FWB and NSA specifically. Filter *out* Platonic, Marriage Minded, etc. Get some flirting in the SA chat, then get her offline and ask for PPM pay per meet. I'm not just up for wham-bam but that would be nice. If there's compatibility, I'm more than willing to go to dinners and outings later -- that doesn't happen with the k-girls. For me, like most men, the physical side has to be there first so I want a girl that shows willingness with PPM.
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[QUOTE=Steve9696;2454136]You should look into P411. Not sure if they are accepting new members. It's a little scary at first. You have to give them your drivers license details and they do a quick discreet employment check. Supposedly they don't keep any info other than a few keys to unique identify you.
Did this 5 years ago maybe and no issues after initial setup. Hey he great thing about is it's a vetted marketplace. The guys are known to be safe and non LE for the girls and the girls likewise vetted and not LE. There are no reviews. Just "okays" but it's very assuring to know the provider is legit. I have had some very nice experiences.
And I would Highly recommend ChristineGFE in Phoenix who has her own website. But she will need P411 or otherwise need to verify you before she invites you to her rather nice apartment.[/QUOTE]I looked in P411 yesterday. But I saw some very negative reviews about it. For starters, P411 doesn't even pretend that its *not* a prostitution site. In the US, prostitution is illegal yet the P411 takes you full details (name, address, DOB, income, employment.). If P411 gets raided and hit with a search warrant, then they have a treasure trove of personal information on Johns. P411 is registered and hosted in the USA so they are subject to searches if a court orders it. They should register outside of the USA to at least mitigate that part of it like a. Ch domain that many monger sites are starting to use.
Also, can you usea P411 verification on your SA profile so girls can easily check that?
What SA needs is an *income verification* in addition to their background check. The income verification is just like that would be done when applying for a mortgage or re-finance. Send them recent pay stubs along with all current bank & investment statements. That would give girls a better selection criteria. As any broke dude (decent or not) can claim a $2 M networth and multiple real estate properties.
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2454478]Thanks for posting this. I like reading this stuff. I just finished skimming the whole thing. However, I was a bit disappointed with the thesis, but not because it wasn't a good thesis (I thought it was very good, but good from an academic criteria), but because I didn't learn that much from it. Most of it is academic, meaning that it presents a lot of statistics (some flawed, but I won't bother going into details on this) and the discussions were largely theoretical (I know this is typical for an academic thesis, but for self-serving reasons I was hoping to learn something practical and useful). As for the analyses, it is based on a textual analysis of the forums on SA and supplemented by interviews with 2 SBs. For anyone that does research, it is well known that interviewing only 2 people is too small a sample, which is obvious, BUT, more importantly, there is also a major self-selection bias problem (I. E. , we are only getting the insights from 2 SBs that would volunteer to be interviewed, and so we are not getting insights from a representative random population of SBs, which would obviously be more meaningful and insightful). So, for me, I actually learned more about SA on this ISG thread, and from my own discussions with the SBs that I met and am still friends with.[/QUOTE]I think the portions of her thesis related to LE interest in SA were interesting. I also liked reading a moderately academic perspective on this topic. It was never to going give us practical tips, I mean she is a woman writing her Masters thesis. Not a guy using SA to fuck girls. Her focus was always going to be not in a direction aligned with ours, right? I agree it would have been better if she had talked to more sugar babes but then again my guess is, she did not receive replies from many sugar babes when she told them what she was looking for. I also don't know why she did and't attempt to speak to any guys and how her advisors thought her thesis was complete w / o getting any input from guys who are 50% of the transaction she is trying to understand.
Honestly if you have used the sugar babes sites for a few months and had real sexual relationships with a few girls, you know what to do, what works for you, what you like and don't. Not sure even tips from any other men will be helpful or needed. It is interesting to read about the experiences of other men, but as far as being helpful, not really. That's my view, anyway.
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[QUOTE=Wupoer;2454654]Good advice. Also, suspicious is their join date is the same day! Or just a few days prior. I think, even if reaching out to a girl, I would be apprehensive on such a short join date.[/QUOTE]They could be legit though. Their old account was banned because they were talking price. I'd ask questions, I've been successful with "new accounts".
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[QUOTE=DownUnderMonger;2454695]They could be legit though. Their old account was banned because they were talking price. I'd ask questions, I've been successful with "new accounts".[/QUOTE]I see. But how would they get caught discussing this things? I guess SA monitors all private comminations on the website which is why we want to move to external chats right away?
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I read some of you said that there are tons of girls on SA during this quarantine time because many are desperate for some financial help. I'm not sure if I'the agree with that since many ladies have been on that sites for few years. Few new ones don't seem to fit my type. It seems to me that many of you don't seem to be very selective based on physical attributes. For me, my preference is generally white up to 25 yo with athletic build and at least 5'5" tall, and I haven't seem to find that many. Perhaps, I'm just too darn picky about my preference. My philosophy is that if you're going to pay for an arrangement, you might as well pay for the best you can get. I generally pursue the ones that are considered to be way out of my league in my normal life.
When you read SA profiles saying that they're open to traveling to you and with you as long as there is genuine connection, do they usually mean staying and sleeping together overnight? I read somewhere that many SBs insist on staying in separate rooms when traveling together. That would be a hell NO. Have you guys ever gone on trips with your SA ladies? If so, how much did they ask for? Do you usually stay away from those explicitly stating that they want emotional connection? I've seen many seeking tags like that.
You guys are rightfully suspicious about some profiles. I've noticed that sometimes my profile got favorited by female members who never viewed my profile. I find that very strange. How's that possible? That makes no sense to me. How could a member favorite you or send you message blindly without viewing your profile? That usually raises a red flag for me. Have you people noticed that? That seems very fishy. Is it possible SA website purposely create some dummy attractive profiles as baits to get more guys pay for the subscription? If true, that would be a very dishonest business practice. Last year, [URL]Match.com[/URL] dating site got sued for sending robo messages from faked attractive members to lure new members to pay for premium membership. That's no good.
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[QUOTE=MoneySign;2454737]I read some of you said that there are tons of girls on SA during this quarantine time because many are desperate for some financial help. I'm not sure if I'the agree with that since many ladies have been on that sites for few years. Few new ones don't seem to fit my type. It seems to me that many of you don't seem to be very selective based on physical attributes. For me, my preference is generally white up to 25 yo with athletic build and at least 5'5" tall, and I haven't seem to find that many. Perhaps, I'm just too darn picky about my preference. My philosophy is that if you're going to pay for an arrangement, you might as well pay for the best you can get. I generally pursue the ones that are considered to be way out of my league in my normal life.
When you read SA profiles saying that they're open to traveling to you and with you as long as there is genuine connection, do they usually mean staying and sleeping together overnight? I read somewhere that many SBs insist on staying in separate rooms when traveling together. That would be a hell NO. Have you guys ever gone on trips with your SA ladies? If so, how much did they ask for? Do you usually stay away from those explicitly stating that they want emotional connection? I've seen many seeking tags like that..[/QUOTE]With all due respect, you should not be making comments about people you do not know. " It seems to me that many of you don't seem to be very selective based on physical attributes". That is a highly inflammatory statement, about many men on this site you have no clue about. Furthermore, if you are not having success wherever you live, that is hardly the same situation all over the world. I have said many times that SA is not necessarily one global market but a collection of several regional and city markets. Each has its own characteristic and some markets are much better than others.
You have several questions. It is OK to ask questions if you had asked them in a respectful manner. But you begin your comment with how your standards are high and put down others on the site with you must not have high standards and then ask for how we are managing our affairs on SA. I have to say you have a curious way of asking for help.
"My philosophy is that if you're going to pay for an arrangement, you might as well pay for the best you can get. I generally pursue the ones that are considered to be way out of my league in my normal life. " Let me see. A hot super model type girl would be most certainly out of your league. If you sell your house, empty your retirement account and give everything to her, she might spend a night with you or a weekend.
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Favoriting
[QUOTE=MoneySign;2454737]I read some of you said that there are tons of girls on SA during this quarantine time because many are desperate for some financial help. I'm not sure if I'the agree with that since many ladies have been on that sites for few years. Few new ones don't seem to fit my type. It seems to me that many of you don't seem to be very selective based on physical attributes. For me, my preference is generally white up to 25 yo with athletic build and at least 5'5" tall, and I haven't seem to find that many. Perhaps, I'm just too darn picky about my preference. My philosophy is that if you're going to pay for an arrangement, you might as well pay for the best you can get. I generally pursue the ones that are considered to be way out of my league in my normal life.
When you read SA profiles saying that they're open to traveling to you and with you as long as there is genuine connection, do they usually mean staying and sleeping together overnight? I read somewhere that many SBs insist on staying in separate rooms when traveling together. That would be a hell NO. Have you guys ever gone on trips with your SA ladies? If so, how much did they ask for? Do you usually stay away from those explicitly stating that they want emotional connection? I've seen many seeking tags like that..[/QUOTE]Yes, I've also noticed them favoriting without so much looking at my profile. I'm guessing they do a a filter search on SDs. When the list comes back, they just click on the "heart" icon on each and every SD that comes up in the list.
Been thinking about it and it does makes sense but just for them. Because the SB now shows up on the top of the SD's list, in his e-mail alerts, and SA website alerts for all for *free*! Otherwise they would have pay for the option of "boosting" their profile which puts them at the top of all SD's search results regardless of whether they fit into his filter. Boost costs:
* 1 Boost for 24 hrs ($9.99).
* 5 Boosts ($7.99/ ea).
* 10 bosts ($5.99/ ea).
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[QUOTE=Pessimist;2454739]Let me see. A hot super model type girl would be most certainly out of your league. If you sell your house, empty your retirement account and give everything to her, she might spend a night with you or a weekend.[/QUOTE]A breathing woman with two arms and two legs is most likely out of his league.
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P411
After the government took down backpage, P411 stopped accepting credit cards. It was necessary to send a bank check to Canada to join up. I think they now take US credit cards again, but their operations are not in the USA.
The real problem with them is that so many of their girls were way too high end for me. $300-$400 an HR is my limit.
[QUOTE=Wupoer;2454658]I looked in P411 yesterday. But I saw some very negative reviews about it. For starters, P411 doesn't even pretend that its *not* a prostitution site. In the US, prostitution is illegal yet the P411 takes you full details (name, address, DOB, income, employment.). If P411 gets raided and hit with a search warrant, then they have a treasure trove of personal information on Johns. P411 is registered and hosted in the USA so they are subject to searches if a court orders it. They should register outside of the USA to at least mitigate that part of it like a. Ch domain that many monger sites are starting to use.
Also, can you usea P411 verification on your SA profile so girls can easily check that?
What SA needs is an *income verification* in addition to their background check. The income verification is just like that would be done when applying for a mortgage or re-finance. Send them recent pay stubs along with all current bank & investment statements. That would give girls a better selection criteria. As any broke dude (decent or not) can claim a $2 M networth and multiple real estate properties.[/QUOTE]
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[QUOTE=Wupoer;2454782]Yes, I've also noticed them favoriting without so much looking at my profile. I'm guessing they do a a filter search on SDs. When the list comes back, they just click on the "heart" icon on each and every SD that comes up in the list.
Been thinking about it and it does makes sense but just for them. Because the SB now shows up on the top of the SD's list, in his e-mail alerts, and SA website alerts for all for *free*! Otherwise they would have pay for the option of "boosting" their profile which puts them at the top of all SD's search results regardless of whether they fit into his filter. Boost costs:
* 1 Boost for 24 hrs ($9.99).
* 5 Boosts ($7.99/ ea).
* 10 bosts ($5.99/ ea).[/QUOTE]In my opinion, it hardly matters whether a girl has favorited you or not, whether she had looked at your profile or not. I think I said this like 3 or 4 times so far: until you physically meet a girl face to face, spent a few minutes talking and getting to know her, a girl is just some electrons moving around in ether. She is not real until then. Could be a guy in China or Serbia, using a few photos to lure you into sending money on Venmo, for all we know. Could be an AI bot.
I think there is really no reason to become paranoid about one type of girls vs other. When you begin chatting, you will know gradually if they sound real or not. If eventually you meet them for a coffee or dinner or lunch or drink, then you will know for sure. Your biggest investment is your time. So, you should learn to enjoy this tete a tete with these girls, even if you know in your heart that some or many of them are scammers and not real. It is a back and forth flirtation. Just keep in mind that a very large percent of those interactions will fizzle out.
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[QUOTE=Pessimist;2454823]In my opinion, it hardly matters whether a girl has favorited you or not, whether she had looked at your profile or not. I think I said this like 3 or 4 times so far: until you physically meet a girl face to face, spent a few minutes talking and getting to know her, a girl is just some electrons moving around in ether. She is not real until then. Could be a guy in China or Serbia, using a few photos to lure you into sending money on Venmo, for all we know. Could be an AI bot.
I think there is really no reason to become paranoid about one type of girls vs other. When you begin chatting, you will know gradually if they sound real or not. If eventually you meet them for a coffee or dinner or lunch or drink, then you will know for sure. Your biggest investment is your time. So, you should learn to enjoy this tete a tete with these girls, even if you know in your heart that some or many of them are scammers and not real. It is a back and forth flirtation. Just keep in mind that a very large percent of those interactions will fizzle out.[/QUOTE]True. But the chick should at least look at the SD's profile which a bot or scammer wouldn't do or care much about. In the end, I may go further. *Nothing* above even matters! Not until I see my bare dick splitting her lower lips open! LOL.
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I place zero emphasis on the profile. I know that my profile is fiction, so I assume the SB might be also. Things get resolved in the chats.
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[QUOTE=Pessimist;2454823]In my opinion, it hardly matters whether a girl has favorited you or not, whether she had looked at your profile or not. I think I said this like 3 or 4 times so far: until you physically meet a girl face to face, spent a few minutes talking and getting to know her, a girl is just some electrons moving around in ether. She is not real until then. Could be a guy in China or Serbia, using a few photos to lure you into sending money on Venmo, for all we know. Could be an AI bot.[/QUOTE]Exactly. This is why I just say, "let's meet" almost immediately. I try to chat with them as little as possible. Chemistry is really established in person, not while chatting.
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[QUOTE=PilotPaul;2455006]I place zero emphasis on the profile. I know that my profile is fiction, so I assume the SB might be also. Things get resolved in the chats.[/QUOTE]Really?
So do you put in your SA profile that you're 6'6" corporate executive? Your profile photo and albums show you leaned against one of your Ferraris in front of your beach side villa or mega yacht?
But guys at that level probably don't need to be on SA. Or they hire a "Booker" or agent to get girls for them. That's what I'd do. So when I get back from work or that stressful business negotiation, there's already a fine ass bikini model ready for me to release my stresses in her preferably in all three holes. Time is so precious at that level of wealth!
Unfortunately, this is what most girls think that SD are isn't it?
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[QUOTE=Wupoer;2455078]Really?
So do you put in your SA profile that you're 6'6" corporate executive? Your profile photo and albums show you leaned against one of your Ferraris in front of your beach side villa or mega yacht?
But guys at that level probably don't need to be on SA. Or they hire a "Booker" or agent to get girls for them. That's what I'd do. So when I get back from work or that stressful business negotiation, there's already a fine ass bikini model ready for me to release my stresses in her preferably in all three holes. Time is so precious at that level of wealth!
Unfortunately, this is what most girls think that SD are isn't it?[/QUOTE]My Profile is mostly correct. Also, I do not read there profiles, I will figure everything out in text messages and VideoChats. Made a mistake of not doing that in MTY this weekend, caused some issues. Moving forward no VideoChat no meeting. Time is money.
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It's a Mix Really
[QUOTE=Wupoer;2455078]Really?
So do you put in your SA profile that you're 6'6" corporate executive? Your profile photo and albums show you leaned against one of your Ferraris in front of your beach side villa or mega yacht?
But guys at that level probably don't need to be on SA. Or they hire a "Booker" or agent to get girls for them. That's what I'd do. So when I get back from work or that stressful business negotiation, there's already a fine ass bikini model ready for me to release my stresses in her preferably in all three holes. Time is so precious at that level of wealth!
Unfortunately, this is what most girls think that SD are isn't it?[/QUOTE]I really think it's a mix. My profile is mostly real. I hedge my age and height down a bit as do my net worth. And the city is nearby fiction but for the most part it's pretty accurate. Saves unnecessary cycles. Most girls I've been with their profile is pretty accurate. But remember I like very real girls so there is probably a correlation there.
On this "she is not real till you meet her" and "meetups are everything" line of thinking I have to disagree. Since 90% of my meetups are one night in a distant town I have to KNOW going in that she is everything I believe her to be and that we are going to the room that night not some future night because I won't be there!
So far I believe I am 95% on target. Twice I've found a girl to be a bit heavier than I thought. But other than that all the personality have been spot on with the online vibe and the progression to the room natural and spectacular. To me the online vibe is the key to the whole affair. Again tho this could be because I need to date and close in a single night.
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[QUOTE=Wupoer;2455078]Really?
So do you put in your SA profile that you're 6'6" corporate executive? Your profile photo and albums show you leaned against one of your Ferraris in front of your beach side villa or mega yacht?
But guys at that level probably don't need to be on SA. Or they hire a "Booker" or agent to get girls for them. That's what I'd do. So when I get back from work or that stressful business negotiation, there's already a fine ass bikini model ready for me to release my stresses in her preferably in all three holes. Time is so precious at that level of wealth!
Unfortunately, this is what most girls think that SD are isn't it?[/QUOTE]"This is what most girls think that SD are isn't it?
I don't think so.
It seems like that is what some men posting here on ISG think about the mindset of most girls on SA.
I think many girls on SA are reasonably realistic. I caveat this observation with the disclaimer that I personally had between 50 to 100 arrangements and physically met some more girls for drink / dinner etc but which did not progress to a real arrangement. Considering that SA has several million girls, I have not sampled even a very small fraction of 1%, and of course mine is also a biased sample with criteria that works for me (white girls, in the 20's, slim body / pretty face, in my locational vicinity).
Anyway, being realistic, they know many men lie. Many also know there are far fewer super rich people than claim to be. A few girls even have such lines in their profile as "I know most of you men are as broke as my 20 year old girl friends" (LOL). But it is also true they know your money is not their money, that you are not going to get married or anything, and they just want a guy who will show upon time, is not a crazy maniac who will assault them, is able to give them the $500 they agreed on, and they would much rather have a guy who will give $500 per meet than $200 (where I live) And the entire point of spending endless hours on SA is to see those hot pretty girls who will put out for 200 and not have to shell out 500. If I am willing to spend 500, I don't need to spend as much time sifting through profiles, chatting endlessly and so on.
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If looking for a one-off, then SA is not worth it
[QUOTE=Steve9696;2455118]
On this "she is not real till you meet her" and "meetups are everything" line of thinking I have to disagree. Since 90% of my meetups are one night in a distant town I have to KNOW going in that she is everything I believe her to be and that we are going to the room that night not some future night because I won't be there![/QUOTE]Steve, man, you know I mean you no disrespect when I say this, as you and I go a long way back, but I have to say that SA is not worth it when looking for a one-nighter on the road.
First, finding a match on SA takes a very long time. Second, they flake on the first date often. This is just not worth it if I am on a business trip for a few nights. I previously tried this a lot on my trips to FL, MA, WA, Vegas, OR, MO, KS, MI, IL, NY, CO, GA, etc. And I only got lucky once (I almost got lucky twice, but when she figured out that it was a one-off, she bailed just before we were supposed to meet).
If you say that I need to spend more time on sealing the deal to ensure she shows up, then I won't argue against it, but then the extra prep time makes it even less worthwhile for me. Also, what kind of SA gals are agreeing to one-offs? They have to be semi-pros, man, and that's not what people are generally looking for on SA, as you know.
I just wanted to put this out there, for noobs to SA, so that they are not under the impression that SA is an easy place to find hookups when on the road. If you're looking for hookups on the road, then my go-to is rub maps. Is that still a thing in the USA, or did that get shut down?
Anyway, like I said at the beginning, I mean no offense, Steve. Just wanted to put a different opinion out there, for discussion.
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2455155]Steve, man, you know I mean you no disrespect when I say this, as you and I go a long way back, but I have to say that SA is not worth it when looking for a one-nighter on the road.
First, finding a match on SA takes a very long time. Second, they flake on the first date often. This is just not worth it if I am on a business trip for a few nights. I previously tried this a lot on my trips to FL, MA, WA, Vegas, OR, MO, KS, MI, IL, NY, CO, GA, etc. And I only got lucky once (I almost got lucky twice, but when she figured out that it was a one-off, she bailed just before we were supposed to meet).
If you say that I need to spend more time on sealing the deal to ensure she shows up, then I won't argue against it, but then the extra prep time makes it even less worthwhile for me. Also, what kind of SA gals are agreeing to one-offs? They have to be semi-pros, man, and that's not what people are generally looking for on SA, as you know.
I just wanted to put this out there, for noobs to SA, so that they are not under the impression that SA is an easy place to find hookups when on the road. If you're looking for hookups on the road, then my go-to is rub maps. Is that still a thing in the USA, or did that get shut down?
Anyway, like I said at the beginning, I mean no offense, Steve. Just wanted to put a different opinion out there, for discussion.[/QUOTE]Hi MW,
I have a slightly different take from you. As you said, I also mean no disrespect. You are the founder of this particular thread after all, and in general I have found you to be very respectful, experienced, genuine, overall nice person. Not a common set of traits on internet.
I agree with you that it takes a long time to close the deal with SA girls. So, in that sense, it is not an easy thing to find one nighter deals when on the road.
On the other hand, there are some puts and takes in this matter.
First, the hotel is paid for, if it is a business trip. I don't know about others, but being a married man, I most certainly don't meet my sugarbabes at my own home, ever. I meet them at a rented hotel room 80-90% of the time, and occasionally some sugar babes allowed me to fuck them on their own beds. This is in my home town. So, when on the road, a hotel room is already covered. Which means my budget is extended a bit more.
You can start talking to the girls in the city you will be visiting well before you get there. Ideally, one week prior to when you land is a good start. If you ping up a girl in the target city a month from now, and she says "Ok, I like you, do you want to meet tomorrow?" and you reply "well, no, I will be there in a month", she will say "why the fuck are you wasting my time so far in advance". A week is enough time, and if you hit up enough number of girls, you will have at least 5 to 7 good leads. Then it is a matter of settling details.
It also depends on how free are your nights in the target city. If say, you have a lot of business dinners, you will arrive in your hotel room late in the evening. Then the most you can hope for is just a fuck session, no "get to know each other meet and greet dinner first". If she is less good looking than I and her pictures, or something else does not check out well, you have less chance to back out. For me, a huge benefit of meet and greet dinner is to evaluate for myself if I want to go ahead with the girl or if I want to gracefully back out.
(Another reason I like meet and greets. It gives a sense of some thing more than a pure sex for money feel. I am always a bit leery of LE, and like to surround all my fuck sessions with something more than just sex. At least in my mind, if I meet once or twice before the sex for dinners and drinks or even a movie, then it can be argued that it is something of a normal life type. Anyway, I rationalize it as such, I could be wrong.).
Now, one thing that does work in your favor when on the road: you can come straight to the point and tell her that you are in town for just a couple of nights. The girl will know it is a serious deal, that you are not beating around the Bush. Remember, many girls say several guys flake out as well. I. e. Guys keep stringing them that they will meet but never meet, or if they meet they keep wanting endless meets before a sex session that leads to money payment to the girl. Secondly, your hotel room if you are in town for business is likely to be better than motel 6 and girls like that. It will feel much better to be meeting the girl at a Hilton or even a Marriott than road side motel. (That said, if it is my own dime and if it is a just a two hour sex session, I will not rent a Hilton just to impress the girl). So, the girls who are actually serious SBs and needing money quickly will agree to the terms and will meet you. Remember, if they flake out, you didnot lose much because the hotel room is already paid for, and not by you!
My problem is that I live in a relatively less expensive part of the country and when I travel for business I visit the bigger expensive cities like Boston, NYC, SF etc. Obviously sugar babes in my home town are less expensive than in these money pits. So, I am always a bit leery about "do I really want to shell out 100 to 200 more for the same quality girl"? I am normally disciplined, and if I find good deals I will take them otherwise it is a pass. But never in a desperation or hurry to fuck. One exception is when I travel on business to South East, particularly to Florida. I have found reasonably good deals in Miami, Ft Laud area, also Tampa. Yet to test Orlando and Jax. Atlanta was reasonably good also.
I also had better luck in Europe than in US. Not surprisingly European chicks cost less and give more (BLS, endless amounts of kissing, occasional bareback). However, in Germany I always use Fkks, especially in Frankfurt and NRW.
Still, I will say, 80% of my sugar babe hunting is in my home city, and I am lucky it is a big enough region and yet not too expensive. So, there are plenty of good looking sugar babes and their expectations are not too inflated.
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Cost-benefit analysis of trying to find one-offs on SA while on the road
Pessimist,
Likewise, and I respect your viewpoints as well, even when we disagree.
You're right that on the road you have a nice hotel already booked, and so this cuts down both direct and indirect costs. This, I admit, is a very good point.
You're tips on sealing the deal are good.
You're right that it depends on how free your nights are.
You're right that you can cut to the chase, since you are in town only for a few nights.
But for me, it's still not worth it. Someone on here suggested having a backup plan, in case the SA date doesn't work out. That's a good suggestion. And I do this when I am at my home base. But when I am on the road, I now just look for "another" plan, instead of a backup plan. Hell, sometimes I just bring an SB with me.
For me, (1) the time it takes to find a match, (2) the no-show rate, (3) given that the types of gals that agree to a one-off are not the types of gals that I am looking for anyway, and (4) the time wasted when they don't show, just doesn't make it worthwhile when on the road. At the home office, I have more time on my hands, and I can do the meet-and-greets to establish chemistry in person, and I can find someone who is nowhere near a semi-pro.
I just didn't want people to think that SA is an ideal place to find hookups on the road. YMMV, but I guess that always goes without saying.
[QUOTE=Pessimist;2455172]Hi MW,
I have a slightly different take from you. As you said, I also mean no disrespect. You are the founder of this particular thread after all, and in general I have found you to be very respectful, experienced, genuine, overall nice person. Not a common set of traits on internet.
I agree with you that it takes a long time to close the deal with SA girls. So, in that sense, it is not an easy thing to find one nighter deals when on the road.
On the other hand, there are some puts and takes in this matter.
First, the hotel is paid for, if it is a business trip. I don't know about others, but being a married man, I most certainly don't meet my sugarbabes at my own home, ever. I meet them at a rented hotel room 80-90% of the time, and occasionally some sugar babes allowed me to fuck them on their own beds. This is in my home town. So, when on the road, a hotel room is already covered. Which means my budget is extended a bit more.
You can start talking to the girls in the city you will be visiting well before you get there. Ideally, one week prior to when you land is a good start. If you ping up a girl in the target city a month from now, and she says "Ok, I like you, do you want to meet tomorrow?" and you reply "well, no, I will be there in a month", she will say "why the fuck are you wasting my time so far in advance". A week is enough time, and if you hit up enough number of girls, you will have at least 5 to 7 good leads. Then it is a matter of settling details.
It also depends on how free are your nights in the target city. If say, you have a lot of business dinners, you will arrive in your hotel room late in the evening. Then the most you can hope for is just a fuck session, no "get to know each other meet and greet dinner first". If she is less good looking than I and her pictures, or something else does not check out well, you have less chance to back out. For me, a huge benefit of meet and greet dinner is to evaluate for myself if I want to go ahead with the girl or if I want to gracefully back out.
(Another reason I like meet and greets. It gives a sense of some thing more than a pure sex for money feel. I am always a bit leery of LE, and like to surround all my fuck sessions with something more than just sex. At least in my mind, if I meet once or twice before the sex for dinners and drinks or even a movie, then it can be argued that it is something of a normal life type. Anyway, I rationalize it as such, I could be wrong.).
Now, one thing that does work in your favor when on the road: you can come straight to the point and tell her that you are in town for just a couple of nights. The girl will know it is a serious deal, that you are not beating around the Bush. Remember, many girls say several guys flake out as well. I. e. Guys keep stringing them that they will meet but never meet, or if they meet they keep wanting endless meets before a sex session that leads to money payment to the girl. Secondly, your hotel room if you are in town for business is likely to be better than motel 6 and girls like that. It will feel much better to be meeting the girl at a Hilton or even a Marriott than road side motel. (That said, if it is my own dime and if it is a just a two hour sex session, I will not rent a Hilton just to impress the girl). So, the girls who are actually serious SBs and needing money quickly will agree to the terms and will meet you. Remember, if they flake out, you didnot lose much because the hotel room is already paid for, and not by you!
My problem is that I live in a relatively less expensive part of the country and when I travel for business I visit the bigger expensive cities like Boston, NYC, SF etc. Obviously sugar babes in my home town are less expensive than in these money pits. So, I am always a bit leery about "do I really want to shell out 100 to 200 more for the same quality girl"? I am normally disciplined, and if I find good deals I will take them otherwise it is a pass. But never in a desperation or hurry to fuck. One exception is when I travel on business to South East, particularly to Florida. I have found reasonably good deals in Miami, Ft Laud area, also Tampa. Yet to test Orlando and Jax. Atlanta was reasonably good also.
I also had better luck in Europe than in US. Not surprisingly European chicks cost less and give more (BLS, endless amounts of kissing, occasional bareback). However, in Germany I always use Fkks, especially in Frankfurt and NRW.
Still, I will say, 80% of my sugar babe hunting is in my home city, and I am lucky it is a big enough region and yet not too expensive. So, there are plenty of good looking sugar babes and their expectations are not too inflated.[/QUOTE]
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2455155]Steve, man, you know I mean you no disrespect when I say this, as you and I go a long way back, but I have to say that SA is not worth it when looking for a one-nighter on the road.
First, finding a match on SA takes a very long time. Second, they flake on the first date often. This is just not worth it if I am on a business trip for a few nights. I previously tried this a lot on my trips to FL, MA, WA, Vegas, OR, MO, KS, MI, IL, NY, CO, GA, etc. And I only got lucky once (I almost got lucky twice, but when she figured out that it was a one-off, she bailed just before we were supposed to meet).
If you say that I need to spend more time on sealing the deal to ensure she shows up, then I won't argue against it, but then the extra prep time makes it even less worthwhile for me. Also, what kind of SA gals are agreeing to one-offs? They have to be semi-pros, man, and that's not what people are generally looking for on SA, as you know.
I just wanted to put this out there, for noobs to SA, so that they are not under the impression that SA is an easy place to find hookups when on the road. If you're looking for hookups on the road, then my go-to is rub maps. Is that still a thing in the USA, or did that get shut down?
Anyway, like I said at the beginning, I mean no offense, Steve. Just wanted to put a different opinion out there, for discussion.[/QUOTE]I have to agree, he does make SA out to be a little easier, then what it is. I also have a lot of respect for Steven and I have learned a lot from his reports SA works much better in Latin America, Europe and Russia, then the states. I am not sure I will even use it the states anymore, I just get pissed off and I end of losing out on work, because of the girls drama / b. S. SA can be a lot of work, but occasionally you hit the jackpot. I had a couple of no shows in MTY this weekend. And slight catfish, I sent her packing with taxi money, this weekend in MTY, from SA. Some of this was my fault for no Video Chat, I will not make that mistake again. Then I hit the Jackpot, Saturday at 8 pm 23 Grad Student shows up and the rest of the night was history. Told Porno Experience, we spent the night together, Anal Included, we had sex 5-6 times total including 2 times in the morning, all for $200. She was a sold 6.5-7.5, perfect body. The weekend before I hung out with a sold 8 for the weekend for $300, super nice and great girls both our keepers, not bad for hooking up during the Quarantine.
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SNL w Nice Girls Possible
I think the advice here is clear. YMMV and it depends on what you are looking for and how much effort you put in. And it depends a bit on your definition of Semi-pro. If you mean a girl who has a regular job but sometimes has sex with a guy she likes moderately and gets money on the back end then every girl on SA but an SA virgin (had two of those) is a semi-pro. Those are my perfect girls.
For guys looking to have an SNL (Single Night Lay) here is what has worked for me:
I put in a ton of time. As in two hours a night every night. It's my hobby. I love chatting and flirting with pretty girls. You can keep that fucking game where you chase a white ball around.
Girls are ALWAYS in the 21-25 age bracket. Right now I have it set for 22-24 which is even better. The world has changed even in the last ten years. It is common for girls this age to go hookup in a bar and have sex that first night. It is considered normal and natural for a huge number of girls that age. And let's be honest the girls we are talking to are on SA!
I ALWAYS make it clear the first date involves sex. I don't say it out loud or on the site. But I have a patter that makes it clear we will be going on a complete date or no $$$ (just Uber). 95% of the time I agree allowance by text. The wording thru this part is super important.
I do leave the possibility of more out there. I am honest about it but I do leave the idea of future meetups and travel on the table. This is the honest truth because I will absolutely fly a girl that I am smitten with and have in the past.
Be charming at dinner or drinks. If you are fun and engaging you have won half the battle.
I take a very strong lead. You can learn a lot more about this on Attraction Japan which I found really helpful since prior to SA my last date was 35 years ago! When I suggested "let's get out of here" to one local girl (I was having to rush a bit) she said "wow your really confident aren't you!" And I said yep Let's Go. And off we went to the hotel.
I suppose there are two messages here and they are not in conflict. Midwestern is saying it's not easy and takes some game. I am saying yep absolute but it's totally possible. 19 for 21 this past year and the two fails were 27 and 32 years old early off-target dates.
Ps I am never looking to only see a girl one time. I am always looking for that girl I crush on and can’t be without. The next Thifany. So I am honest when I say it could lead to more. Even tho it rarely does I am always hopeful.
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2455182]Pessimist,
Likewise, and I respect your viewpoints as well, even when we disagree.
You're right that on the road you have a nice hotel already booked, and so this cuts down both direct and indirect costs. This, I admit, is a very good point.
You're tips on sealing the deal are good.
You're right that it depends on how free your nights are.
You're right that you can cut to the chase, since you are in town only for a few nights.
But for me, it's still not worth it. Someone on here suggested having a backup plan, in case the SA date doesn't work out. That's a good suggestion. And I do this when I am at my home base. But when I am on the road, I now just look for "another" plan, instead of a backup plan. Hell, sometimes I just bring an SB with me..[/QUOTE]Yes, I agree with everything you said. The ROI so to speak is low. As you observe, it takes a lot of effort to snag a good SB. You are right to say that if a man is going to spend all that much effort and time to secure a good SB, why not do it with someone he is likely to keep seeing for multiple times rather than one single time. On the other hand, even just within FKKs, there are some guys who will not repeat with girls. They are in the clubs for a week and would much rather fuck 25 different girls than to fuck 5 good girls 5 times each. So, for guys who are wanting to sample as many new pussies as possible, have the thrill of saying "I fucked a couple of girls in all the major cities", or who are simply bored in the evenings and would rather occupy it with some fornication activity, SA provides a quick venue. If you focus on girls who have listed FWB in their profile and make them a good offer, you can get it done. But yes, it is much more satisfying to find a few good girls and keep repeating with them for a few months and then find new ones again.
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Very good points!
[QUOTE=Midwestern;2455182]Pessimist,
Likewise, and I respect your viewpoints as well, even when we disagree.
You're right that on the road you have a nice hotel already booked, and so this cuts down both direct and indirect costs. This, I admit, is a very good point.
You're tips on sealing the deal are good.
You're right that it depends on how free your nights are.
You're right that you can cut to the chase, since you are in town only for a few nights.
But for me, it's still not worth it. Someone on here suggested having a backup plan, in case the SA date doesn't work out. That's a good suggestion. And I do this when I am at my home base. But when I am on the road, I now just look for "another" plan, instead of a backup plan. Hell, sometimes I just bring an SB with me.
For me, (1) the time it takes to find a match, (2) the no-show rate, (3) given that the types of gals that agree to a one-off are not the types of gals that I am looking for anyway, and (4) the time wasted when they don't show, just doesn't make it worthwhile when on the road. At the home office, I have more time on my hands, and I can do the meet-and-greets to establish chemistry in person, and I can find someone who is nowhere near a semi-pro.
I just didn't want people to think that SA is an ideal place to find hookups on the road. YMMV, but I guess that always goes without saying.[/QUOTE]Very good points both ways.
I was introduced to SA in the Prague forum about 2 years ago. The person that wrote a quick indirect reference statement simply mentioned that it took a degree of effort to seal the deal. We all know this to be true. The chatting, ghosting, and picture trading is endless and you do have to find those girls that show heightened interest or ask why don't you write them often in order to increase your probability for success.
I travel for business often and usually to the same places, so even though I don't live there, the girls know that I won't be a single time deal. In terms of lodging, I haven't had this issue. I am usually traveling (business / personal) so I always have suite booked. When the girl thinks that she will see you fairly often, she usually doesn't care that you don't' live there. With that kind of presence, you are most likely not categorized as a traveler that they will only see once every 6 months. All of my SA experience has been in Europe except 2 trips which were both in the US. I found that the girls in the US are harder to actually meet with and it's quite difficult to nail down a schedule even with advanced notice. One girl even made me promise her that I wouldn't stand her up bc she was getting a baby sitter. I had to tell her that she was too late (I really wanted to bang this chick too. A skinny redhead). I was leaving the next day. With European girls, I have found the opposite. Sometimes I'll be at dinner or having a drink and one will hit me up to chill that very night. This has happened twice and both times were unexpected. I had been talking to both over whatsapp and they knew I was in town but we never made a meeting time official. Next thing you know I'm in a cab to pick her up.
I agree with Pessimist that if you have the time, the game, and you have made your intentions clear from the beginning, road SA meetings are not difficult at all. Actually I would recommend it, if you are going to Europe, and want a taste of the local vibe without dealing with escorts (escorts have pros and cons). As I suggested before, it's good to have a backup plan for those times when the SB is just not what you expected or she is weird during your meeting. The possibility to call an audible has to exist.
In my profile I make it clear that the girl needs to be reliable and flexible. This is something that I vet pretty heavily during our beginning conversations, especially after being burned in Denver (a whole week's worth of mismatched free time). So personally, I haven't experienced no-shows or lack of response. In terms of comms, if you start chatting with an SB 7-10 days before meeting, I've found this to be the sweet spot. There is enough time to vet your roster, start the whatsapp conversations, develop some degree of connection, and allow her to look forward to meeting you. I made the mistake of starting the chat with girls 3 weeks before I was supposed to be in town. They quickly lose interest and feel like you are wasting their time. They start asking if you are really coming or not!
I like to meet and greet too, but it needs to turn into me banging her that night. I like to use the meet and greet as a feeler. If we are both having a good time and we like our vibe, then let's seal the deal. If not, then let's end our association (backup needed). I don't really like to simply meet just to see if we click, and then attempt to seal the deal another day, though this does happen sometimes.
Just my respectful $. 02.
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[QUOTE=Pessimist;2455257]Yes, I agree with everything you said. The ROI so to speak is low. As you observe, it takes a lot of effort to snag a good SB. You are right to say that if a man is going to spend all that much effort and time to secure a good SB, why not do it with someone he is likely to keep seeing for multiple times rather than one single time. On the other hand, even just within FKKs, there are some guys who will not repeat with girls. They are in the clubs for a week and would much rather fuck 25 different girls than to fuck 5 good girls 5 times each. So, for guys who are wanting to sample as many new pussies as possible, have the thrill of saying "I fucked a couple of girls in all the major cities", or who are simply bored in the evenings and would rather occupy it with some fornication activity, SA provides a quick venue. If you focus on girls who have listed FWB in their profile and make them a good offer, you can get it done. But yes, it is much more satisfying to find a few good girls and keep repeating with them for a few months and then find new ones again.[/QUOTE]IMHO, it's better to have a few go to girls in every city that you frequent. They get excited when you come to town because they know that you will take them out to the expensive places they can't afford or give them some WAM (walk around money). If you find a few good girls, it really does make the whole outing that much better. I had a special girl from Spain that I met in London. I would see her every time I was in town. She got upset one time bc I didn't tell her I was in town for a few days. She was a semi-pro, in University, living on campus, and wanted that expensive lifestyle that she sees in videos. Things were easy with her. We knew what each other liked, how we liked sex, what kind of drinks, etc. It really makes the whole experience more like a girlfriend that you can only see once or twice a month.
I can't wait for COVID to be over, so I can replenish my ranks and start the search all over again. I have some new cities that I want to add to my list.
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[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2455218]I have to agree, he does make SA out to be a little easier, then what it is. I also have a lot of respect for Steven and I have learned a lot from his reports SA works much better in Latin America, Europe and Russia, then the states. I am not sure I will even use it the states anymore, I just get pissed off and I end of losing out on work, because of the girls drama / b. S. SA can be a lot of work, but occasionally you hit the jackpot. I had a couple of no shows in MTY this weekend. And slight catfish, I sent her packing with taxi money, this weekend in MTY, from SA. Some of this was my fault for no Video Chat, I will not make that mistake again. Then I hit the Jackpot, Saturday at 8 pm 23 Grad Student shows up and the rest of the night was history. Told Porno Experience, we spent the night together, Anal Included, we had sex 5-6 times total including 2 times in the morning, all for $200. She was a sold 6.5-7.5, perfect body. The weekend before I hung out with a sold 8 for the weekend for $300, super nice and great girls both our keepers, not bad for hooking up during the Quarantine.[/QUOTE]I don't disagree with you but we have to keep things in perspective. It is tough (er) to purchase sex in USA and more expensive. It is also a country that generally has higher wages which means girls have other options. We don't have a lot of impoverished but pretty / white / young / slim Romanian girls flooding our country and offering to sell booty for an easy price (as is the case in many parts of Europe). And unfortunately, we have an obesity problem and many girls are out of shape even at a young age. I have not tried it yet but if I relaxed the criteria on young / slim / white / pretty, I can achieve a higher hit ratio and at a lower price, in my estimation. I have had a few Hispanic girls and they tended to be easier and less pricey. Yes, it is easier to snag girls in EU but then again when I am in Europe I have other options too and I am trying to make the most of the time I have in EU. What is a guy to do if he happens to live in US permanently? SA is one of the better options.
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[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2455218]I have to agree, he does make SA out to be a little easier, then what it is. I also have a lot of respect for Steven and I have learned a lot from his reports SA works much better in Latin America, Europe and Russia, then the states. I am not sure I will even use it the states anymore, I just get pissed off and I end of losing out on work, because of the girls drama / b. S. SA can be a lot of work, but occasionally you hit the jackpot. I had a couple of no shows in MTY this weekend. And slight catfish, I sent her packing with taxi money, this weekend in MTY, from SA. Some of this was my fault for no Video Chat, I will not make that mistake again. Then I hit the Jackpot, Saturday at 8 pm 23 Grad Student shows up and the rest of the night was history. Told Porno Experience, we spent the night together, Anal Included, we had sex 5-6 times total including 2 times in the morning, all for $200. She was a sold 6.5-7.5, perfect body. The weekend before I hung out with a sold 8 for the weekend for $300, super nice and great girls both our keepers, not bad for hooking up during the Quarantine.[/QUOTE]That's hot man. Congrats. MTY is in Monterrey Mexico? I just started with SA in California and its tiring. Covid crisis and now riots crisis not helping. I thought the college girls would be done wrapping up their final exams and be hungry for cash.
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[QUOTE=Steve9696;2455256]
I do leave the possibility of more out there. I am honest about it but I do leave the idea of future meetups and travel on the table. This is the honest truth because I will absolutely fly a girl that I am smitten with and have in the past.[/QUOTE]THIS is very good advice when trying to hook up on the road. Whenever I tried to meet SBs on the road, I always told them that I would be coming back regularly. This kept them interested. If I told them I was only in town for a few days, then I almost always got ignored immediately. Maybe this is one reason why you were successful, but I have no doubts that you also got game.
[QUOTE=Pessimist;2455257]Yes, I agree with everything you said. The ROI so to speak is low. As you observe, it takes a lot of effort to snag a good SB. You are right to say that if a man is going to spend all that much effort and time to secure a good SB, why not do it with someone he is likely to keep seeing for multiple times rather than one single time.[/QUOTE]YES, this is exactly what I am trying to say, but I didn't say it as clearly as you did.
[QUOTE=LshRoomer;2455328]I found that the girls in the US are harder to actually meet with and it's quite difficult to nail down a schedule even with advanced notice. One girl even made me promise her that I wouldn't stand her up bc she was getting a baby sitter. I had to tell her that she was too late (I really wanted to bang this chick too. A skinny redhead). I was leaving the next day. With European girls, I have found the opposite. Sometimes I'll be at dinner or having a drink and one will hit me up to chill that very night. This has happened twice and both times were unexpected. I had been talking to both over whatsapp and they knew I was in town but we never made a meeting time official. Next thing you know I'm in a cab to pick her up.
I agree with Pessimist that if you have the time, the game, and you have made your intentions clear from the beginning, road SA meetings are not difficult at all. Actually I would recommend it, if you are going to Europe,.[/QUOTE]From what I have read in this thread, it appears that the US is one of the most difficult places to find SA hookups, so whatever I said about finding a single night lay on the road may only apply to the US.
[QUOTE=LshRoomer;2455331]IMHO, it's better to have a few go to girls in every city that you frequent. They get excited when you come to town because they know that you will take them out to the expensive places they can't afford or give them some WAM (walk around money). If you find a few good girls, it really does make the whole outing that much better. [/QUOTE]Definitely!
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[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2455218]I have to agree, he does make SA out to be a little easier, then what it is. I also have a lot of respect for Steven and I have learned a lot from his reports SA works much better in Latin America, Europe and Russia, then the states. I am not sure I will even use it the states anymore, I just get pissed off and I end of losing out on work, because of the girls drama / b. S. SA can be a lot of work, but occasionally you hit the jackpot. I had a couple of no shows in MTY this weekend. And slight catfish, I sent her packing with taxi money, this weekend in MTY, from SA. Some of this was my fault for no Video Chat, I will not make that mistake again. Then I hit the Jackpot, Saturday at 8 pm 23 Grad Student shows up and the rest of the night was history. Told Porno Experience, we spent the night together, Anal Included, we had sex 5-6 times total including 2 times in the morning, all for $200. She was a sold 6.5-7.5, perfect body. The weekend before I hung out with a sold 8 for the weekend for $300, super nice and great girls both our keepers, not bad for hooking up during the Quarantine.[/QUOTE]Yeah, finding good SBs is not easy, and it is very time consuming. So, if I am going to spend the time searching, then I am definitely looking for good ROI (return on investment) in or near my home turf rather than a SNL (single night lay) on the road. But like Steven says, if you enjoy the hunt and are good at it, then the SNL can be great and the memories can contribute to the ROI.
Like you, I too have hit the jackpot, and also like you I got burned and wasted a lot of time on SA too.
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Newbie seeking help
[QUOTE=Steve9696;2455256]I think the advice here is clear. YMMV and it depends on what you are looking for and how much effort you put in. And it depends a bit on your definition of Semi-pro. If you mean a girl who has a regular job but sometimes has sex with a guy she likes moderately and gets money on the back end then every girl on SA but an SA virgin (had two of those) is a semi-pro. Those are my perfect girls.
For guys looking to have an SNL (Single Night Lay) here is what has worked for me:
I put in a ton of time. As in two hours a night every night. It's my hobby. I love chatting and flirting with pretty girls. You can keep that fucking game where you chase a white ball around.
Girls are ALWAYS in the 21-25 age bracket. Right now I have it set for 22-24 which is even better. The world has changed even in the last ten years. It is common for girls this age to go hookup in a bar and have sex that first night. It is considered normal and natural for a huge number of girls that age. And let's be honest the girls we are talking to are on SA!.[/QUOTE]Hi guys,
I have been reading up on this forum for a while and have to say really great information out here. I am considering going the arrangement route for my future rather than endless dating and getting nowhere. I would like to get some advice on it.
First off, SA profiles, do you guys post your own photos on SA, if so, are they like hidden or with blurred faces? Also in profile, are you guys clear on what's sort of arrangement you are looking for?
Secondly arrangement, Steve, I think you sort of mentioned a bit here on this post, but how do you discuss what you are expecting from the date and the arrangement allowance? Typically, what would be a going rate in western US, is it like 500 or lower than that? There are so many different type of girls on SA, I would like to know how you discuss the allowance with the girl, right on the date itself or prior to meetup. I am planning to do this while I am in town and while traveling hoping to seal the deal during that night itself (which seems pretty common from most of the posters experience).
Thanks.
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[QUOTE=Wupoer;2455370]That's hot man. Congrats. MTY is in Monterrey Mexico? I just started with SA in California and its tiring. Covid crisis and now riots crisis not helping. I thought the college girls would be done wrapping up their final exams and be hungry for cash.[/QUOTE]Yep, MTY is Monterrey. You are correct, all this Bull Shit the Virus / rioting is not helping anyone.
One observation guys are at a huge advantage if they are on the road and staying in Hotel in Great Location. Makes things much easier, and you can probably expense part of the adventure. SA works, but like everyone takes some work.
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Dood, RTFF
Man, there are over 400 posts on here, with people selflessly sharing their experiences, and you can't take the time to RTFF? You're basically asking us to spoon feed you, but more importantly, you're asking us to REPEAT ourselves. Come on, man. Just spend a couple of hours and start from the very first post and get up to speed. We post all this shit for you, man. Your two questions have already been answered, in detail and in depth, and also debated. If you RTFF, then you're going to be SA expert in LESS than a day. That's big ROI. Trust me.
[QUOTE=Kaaliamac;2455466]Hi guys,
I have been reading up on this forum for a while and have to say really great information out here. I am considering going the arrangement route for my future rather than endless dating and getting nowhere. I would like to get some advice on it.
First off, SA profiles, do you guys post your own photos on SA, if so, are they like hidden or with blurred faces? Also in profile, are you guys clear on what's sort of arrangement you are looking for?
Secondly arrangement, Steve, I think you sort of mentioned a bit here on this post, but how do you discuss what you are expecting from the date and the arrangement allowance? Typically, what would be a going rate in western US, is it like 500 or lower than that? There are so many different type of girls on SA, I would like to know how you discuss the allowance with the girl, right on the date itself or prior to meetup. I am planning to do this while I am in town and while traveling hoping to seal the deal during that night itself (which seems pretty common from most of the posters experience).
Thanks.[/QUOTE].
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2455484]Man, there are over 400 posts on here, with people selflessly sharing their experiences, and you can't take the time to RTFF? You're basically asking us to spoon feed you, but more importantly, you're asking us to REPEAT ourselves. Come on, man. Just spend a couple of hours and start from the very first post and get up to speed. We post all this shit for you, man. Your two questions have already been answered, in detail and in depth, and also debated. If you RTFF, then you're going to be SA expert in LESS than a day. That's big ROI. Trust me..[/QUOTE]Man, like I said, I respect what you guys have written here and shared the experience. I have already read through most of the forum posts since the beginning. I am not asking to be spoon feed either. There were basically two questions. One about your profile photos and the other bit about how you go about discussing the arrangement ppm. Anyway apologies if I asked too much. No worries.
I hope to share my experience soon as I go along this journey.
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Lessons from My First Attempt
It is looking like the 22-year old hustled me. She kept saying she was not a hooker. I tried to make the relationship non-transactional putting half the money into her account before we met. I also guaranteed her $2500 for June. I was going to put in $500 every Monday morning. On the next date she would have to get naked and perform oral sex. I tried to play the long game.
Blaming the curfew and that she was very upset and not sleeping, she canceled the meeting. She suggested facetiming instead and we can definitely meet when this is all over. Then she asked me if I could pay her rent this month. I just said "no' and that there was no more money until she became a "good girl" and started following instructions. She did not reply. She has also been silent on her social media. So it's her move now. She knows what she has to do. The rule of not paying until services are performed probably still holds even if you are trying to become friends. At least with hookers, I don't have any illusion about becoming their friend. Another live and learn moment. $600 to learn that Seeking is not that much different from finding hookers. I did get some entertainment value out of it. I stopped thinking about a married woman with whom I was interacting with as part of a regular Zoom meeting I am participating in. I am no longer trying to figure out how I can get into an affair with her. So there was value in pursuing a different woman. She did put in time trying to get to know me which a hooker would not do.
I think the thirty-year old actress massage girl might be the better bet. I knew I had to drop of one of them anyway. The 22-year old is a little more entertaining conversationally.
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[QUOTE=BigBossMan;2455533]It is looking like the 22-year old hustled me. She kept saying she was not a hooker. I tried to make the relationship non-transactional putting half the money into her account before we met. I also guaranteed her $2500 for June. I was going to put in $500 every Monday morning. On the next date she would have to get naked and perform oral sex. I tried to play the long game.
Blaming the curfew and that she was very upset and not sleeping, she canceled the meeting. She suggested facetiming instead and we can definitely meet when this is all over. Then she asked me if I could pay her rent this month. I just said "no' and that there was no more money until she became a "good girl" and started following instructions. She did not reply. She has also been silent on her social media. So it's her move now. She knows what she has to do. The rule of not paying until services are performed probably still holds even if you are trying to become friends. At least with hookers, I don't have any illusion about becoming their friend. Another live and learn moment. $600 to learn that Seeking is not that much different from finding hookers. I did get some entertainment value out of it. I stopped thinking about a married woman with whom I was interacting with as part of a regular Zoom meeting I am participating in..[/QUOTE]OMG! I feel sorry for you. But you have been reading the forum here. Why did you ever pay?! Rule#1 Until you meet her physically, she is not even a real girl, you may have given your money to a dude, or her pimp or whoever it may be but you will not know. Rule #2 Don't ever give any money until you are at least in the room and you had some foreplay and until she has taken off her clothes. Preferably wait to give money till after you had sex, but if she truly insists then say that you want to make out and see her naked then give her the money. If she refuses, tell her to leave the room.
A girl will take free money and run every single time, even if your deal was $10 grand a month and not $2500. As far as she cares, she already got some money. If she finds someone like you once every 2 days, she is making several thousand dollars a month w / o lifting her finger. And she has no clue what kind of person you are, if you would have given the rest of the 2500 as you promised. Why take a risk? She got the money, she runs away with it. Happens 100% of the time.
It was a costly lesson for you. I would not form a negative view about SA based on this one episode if I were in your situation. To be brutally honest, this is a rookie mistake but your mistake. From your # of posts, you are a senior monger. You will not make mistakes like this again.
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Good Leasons And.
[QUOTE=BigBossMan;2455533]It is looking like the 22-year old hustled me. She kept saying she was not a hooker. I tried to make the relationship non-transactional putting half the money into her account before we met. I also guaranteed her $2500 for June. I was going to put in $500 every Monday morning. On the next date she would have to get naked and perform oral sex. I tried to play the long game.
Blaming the curfew and that she was very upset and not sleeping, she canceled the meeting. She suggested facetiming instead and we can definitely meet when this is all over. Then she asked me if I could pay her rent this month. I just said "no' and that there was no more money until she became a "good girl" and started following instructions. She did not reply. She has also been silent on her social media. So it's her move now. She knows what she has to do. The rule of not paying until services are performed probably still holds even if you are trying to become friends. At least with hookers, I don't have any illusion about becoming their friend. Another live and learn moment. $600 to learn that Seeking is not that much different from finding hookers. I did get some entertainment value out of it. I stopped thinking about a married woman with whom I was interacting with as part of a regular Zoom meeting I am participating in. I am no longer trying to figure out how I can get into an affair with her. So there was value in pursuing a different woman. She did put in time trying to get to know me which a hooker would not do.
I think the thirty-year old actress massage girl might be the better bet. I knew I had to drop of one of them anyway. The 22-year old is a little more entertaining conversationally.[/QUOTE]So it's good that you went in eyes wide open and sounds like you can afford it. But yeah never ever ever ever money before. Ever. As soon as she expects a dime it's ghost time. Wrong girl. And you just never know — I had a girl in Medellin on chat. Every night for a week or two. So fun. So loving. Then comes the my mom lost her job. Can we do videos and you send me money? Nope sorry babe. Last I heard from her.
And don't try to set up something long term. Just start slow and evolve.
Final advice. Watch out for that 32 year old. That is the dead zone. Likely had kids. Often not down to fuck on the first date. If you are good looking enough and by that I mean non objectionable and have some text and date game stick with the under 26 crowd. BTW 28 is the new 38. All the over 30 girls are going with 28 these days (not 29 LOL).
And keep lots of irons hot. I am typically texting with five girls any given day. You never know which will pop and which will sputter. It's a numbers game.
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Damn
[QUOTE=BigBossMan;2455533]It is looking like the 22-year old hustled me. She kept saying she was not a hooker. I tried to make the relationship non-transactional putting half the money into her account before we met. I also guaranteed her $2500 for June. I was going to put in $500 every Monday morning. On the next date she would have to get naked and perform oral sex. I tried to play the long game.
Blaming the curfew and that she was very upset and not sleeping, she canceled the meeting. She suggested facetiming instead and we can definitely meet when this is all over. Then she asked me if I could pay her rent this month. I just said "no' and that there was no more money until she became a "good girl" and started following instructions. She did not reply. She has also been silent on her social media. So it's her move now. She knows what she has to do. The rule of not paying until services are performed probably still holds even if you are trying to become friends. At least with hookers, I don't have any illusion about becoming their friend. Another live and learn moment. $600 to learn that Seeking is not that much different from finding hookers. I did get some entertainment value out of it. I stopped thinking about a married woman with whom I was interacting with as part of a regular Zoom meeting I am participating in. I am no longer trying to figure out how I can get into an affair with her. So there was value in pursuing a different woman. She did put in time trying to get to know me which a hooker would not do.
I think the thirty-year old actress massage girl might be the better bet. I knew I had to drop of one of them anyway. The 22-year old is a little more entertaining conversationally.[/QUOTE]Big Boss Man.
Steve hit the nail on the head. Never ever ever pay before you penetrate one of their holes. Even more so if you are trying to become friends. Friends are free. Once I feel your juices, then the cash can flow, not before. Seriously though, there are a lot of bad girls out there looking to take advantage of guys looking for an SB / SD relationship. I've come across a few, but luckily kept my wits about me. There was one girl, in the suite with me, kissing on the bed and told me that she needs 500 euro (pre-bang) in order to know I'm serious. Guys, this is no-good! I almost paid her too, but as I look back, I'm glad that I didn't. All other girls that I have met were all cool with compensation afterwards and that has become the norm. Hell, even with escorts I try to follow the same pattern. I usually do 2-4 hour sessions and try to meet them outdoors at a bar or hookah lounge. I feel them out while we are out in the city and pay them once we get back to my hotel / apartment (if I don't ditch them beforehand). This method gives you the option to call an audible if the girl is strange, detached, doesn't smile (romanian girls), or seems disinterested. It's better to find out that there is no compatibility before paying rather than after. This applies to SA and escorts.
The Long Game. I'm sure you see by now that it has to just happen, so don't force it. SA is my goto for 75% of interactions. However, I have an escort that turned out to be very similar to an SA girl. I give her cash at the end, she calls me sometimes just to hang out (when I'm in town) and the per hour rate is probably close to about 50 euro (when I call her! Inverse is free). I had no idea this was going to happen when I met this Ukrainian MILF. Turned into something more than a quick session (love Ukrainian chicks!
Keep all of them! Keep a roster man, you are going to need it. Boil all of those messages with all those chick down to about 3-8 solid girls that you can actually meet. I do this whenever traveling and usually have about 4 girls that I have to find a way to meet during the time I'm in town. Deciding which girl to see, how many times, what to do with whom is part of the fun. Sometimes it's the most unexpected ones that blow your mind.
02.
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It's harsh, but he's right!
[QUOTE=Kaaliamac;2455466]Hi guys,
I have been reading up on this forum for a while and have to say really great information out here. I am considering going the arrangement route for my future rather than endless dating and getting nowhere. I would like to get some advice on it.
First off, SA profiles, do you guys post your own photos on SA, if so, are they like hidden or with blurred faces? Also in profile, are you guys clear on what's sort of arrangement you are looking for?
Secondly arrangement, Steve, I think you sort of mentioned a bit here on this post, but how do you discuss what you are expecting from the date and the arrangement allowance? Typically, what would be a going rate in western US, is it like 500 or lower than that? There are so many different type of girls on SA, I would like to know how you discuss the allowance with the girl, right on the date itself or prior to meetup. I am planning to do this while I am in town and while traveling hoping to seal the deal during that night itself (which seems pretty common from most of the posters experience).
Thanks.[/QUOTE]Kaaliamac!
Welcome to the party pal! (Bruce Willis voice. Movie reference) Seriously, once you have some experiences, be sure to share because as Midwestern mentioned, there is a benefit for all of us, regardless of experience level.
Though the words sound harsh, he's right, you got to RTFF!
There are a lot of mistakes to be made in the sugar world. RTFF. And see our mistakes, suggestions, opinions, and general know how. The questions you ask are expansive and require more than a single sentence to answer. Some guys use SA in their hometown, some don't (like me). Some guys will not show a pic on SA, some don't' care. Some mix it up and keep the clear face pics hidden, bc you are definitely going to show her your face before you meet. Basically what I'm saying is that there are a lot of pros and cons and opinions to every method and most of that is discussed here.
The only way I even know about SA is because I was RTFF in the Prague forum and came across 2 post that casually mentioned SA as sponsoring (is what the monger called it). From there, my experiences increased in quality and variety and my fun while traveling increased significantly.
So. Scroll back to the beginning, have a beer or cognac and RTFF.
I have a set of rules that I follow that might help you. Check out post #329.
Safe mongering man.
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[QUOTE=BigBossMan;2455533]It is looking like the 22-year old hustled me. She kept saying she was not a hooker. I tried to make the relationship non-transactional putting half the money into her account before we met. I also guaranteed her $2500 for June. I was going to put in $500 every Monday morning. On the next date she would have to get naked and perform oral sex. I tried to play the long game.[/QUOTE]While you think you were playing the long game, you were never in the game. She sounds like a lovely girl that gets guys to pay money for nothing. You were just one of the guys on HER roster. She was likely never going to be meeting you. Words are cheap. All the risk was on you.
I've seen similar on a few profiles and messages here. One girl I had moved from SA onto phone text. Here line was "It's so hard to meet this weekend with our busy schedules, let's do phone sex today for $300 and then your first session with me is free". What can be better than that? It's true we couldn't agree on a time and I would get her naked on video for maybe 30 minutes with her toys then free sex. All except she was never going to be providing anything after the cash hit her bank.
Yes, there are girls that will honour their promises after getting the cash BUT in the majority of cases any girl requiring money up front is either a professional, has been burnt before or is too untrusting to make the session worthwhile.
My local SB that I was with Monday, three hours in bed and she knows she will find an envelope in the side pocket of her handbag.
My alternate SB2 is on pause this week due to the above SB1. When I told SB2 I would not see her she still asked for allowance. I reversed the line "No money no honey" and asked "When I don't pay can I still have sex with you?" She quickly retreated.
Happy hunting.
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But Seeking IS different from finding hookers
[QUOTE=BigBossMan;2455533]It is looking like the 22-year old hustled me. She kept saying she was not a hooker. I tried to make the relationship non-transactional putting half the money into her account before we met. I also guaranteed her $2500 for June. I was going to put in $500 every Monday morning. On the next date she would have to get naked and perform oral sex. I tried to play the long game.
$600 to learn that Seeking is not that much different from finding hookers.
I think the thirty-year old actress massage girl might be the better bet. I knew I had to drop of one of them anyway. The 22-year old is a little more entertaining conversationally.[/QUOTE]If you just want to bang a hot chick, then definitely find a hooker. But if you want a GF, then go with SA. You just help her out financially. If you ask out a regular girl, would she ever ask you for money before the first date? Of course not. All the money talk comes after you guys establish chemistry.
What's the difference between a regular GF, an SA GF, and a hooker? Well, you guys know what a regular GF is, and you guys know what a hooker is. So, I'll just explain what I consider to be an SA GF. An SA GF is someone that will spend 4 to 12 hours with you, per date, where the dates are fun and sex is always included. An SA GF genuinely likes you! But she doesn't know your real name, and she doesn't expect it to lead to marriage. In fact, she doesn't care if you are married. The only catch is that you have to help her out financially.
To make sure they are not scammers, I don't waste too much time chatting with them. I just say, "let's meet. " You cannot get a good feel for a person until you've met them and spent face to face time with them. When you are just chatting on the computer, it's easy for the gal to be the perfect girl for you and to fake the chemistry. I just meet them, and if the date goes well, then I will ask them what they want in terms of finances. I will usually not agree to a long term arrangement until after a couple of PPMs, and most of the time, I just stick to the PPMs even if I really like them.
But this said, I admit that it takes up a lot of time meeting them face-to-face, but I think it's worth it. This way, you will know right away when to cut bait.
Finally, another way to not get scammed is to look for genuine stories on SA profiles. If you just see a pretty face and good body, and her profile just says she wants to enjoy life or some similar frilly BS, then I usually take a pass. I look for stuff like, "I just started a new business and I need some help paying for my daily necessities. " A lot of my SA hookups were with gals just starting out in a new entry level job, or in between jobs, or just graduated, or just starting a new business, or just divorced, etc. , and they just needed some financial help.
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Also.
Hopefully you guys are not wasting your time on any profiles that only have one photo.
I'm not talking about one photo is visible and the rest are private: I'm talking about one photo and one photo only on the profile.
I wish SA would make it a requirement that all profiles have to have a minimum of 3 (different) photos in order to be shown.
Those 1 pic only accounts are just spam accounts. I don't take any female seriously who only has one damn photo on her profile. I treat them the same as I would on Tinder: Next!
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[QUOTE=BigBossMan;2455533]It is looking like the 22-year old hustled me. She kept saying she was not a hooker. I tried to make the relationship non-transactional putting half the money into her account before we met. I also guaranteed her $2500 for June. I was going to put in $500 every Monday morning. On the next date she would have to get naked and perform oral sex. I tried to play the long game.
$600 to learn that Seeking is not that much different from finding hookers.
[/QUOTE]Man, you are a scammers's wet dream! This guy is guaranteeing all kinds of big bucks without even getting a sniff of the panties!
This is why I tell you guys to never ever show your face on these SB sites. Now all the guys in Nigeria and Bangalore know that this one sends money to any hot piece of ass without requiring a meeting first!
If I ever lose my job I will supplement my income by just putting up profiles of hot 22 yr olds on SA to get goobers to send me money with nothing but a digital pinky-swear required of me.
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[QUOTE=MiamiBoy1;2455674]Hi guys,
Just got here yesterday. Flew in from Miami, the plane was 99% full, mostly with Mexicans returning back home. The temperature was taken upon arrival, I was also asked a few questions by the immigration officers in a separate room, took about 15-20 minutes and they let me in. The city is half empty, most businesses are shut down as I had expected. No surprise here. The weather is great and I am enjoying my walks around the city and parks. I assume the scene here is dead, but at the same time I know there are many working girls who can't wait to get back to business. I was wondering if there are any reputable escort agencies as well as individuals who are still in the biz and doing outcalls. Any suggestions? I'm not that desperate to get laid, in fact mongering is not the reason I'm here, but it would be great to find 1 or 2 working girls and just stick to them, have them come over every other day or occasional TLN. I do not trust websites like mileroticos. Too much bait and switch. I have tried Tinder but no success so far (is there a different app that girls use?
Thanks![/QUOTE]I'm glad to hear you got into Mexico without any problems. I am returning in August. Definitely ready to get away. I have been to GDL a few times and headed to Puebla this trip. Seeking Arrangements has been very good to me on these trips. Mostly students looking to pick up some extra money. The membership is high at $90 a month. Juan Carter is a wealth of knowledge as well. Good luck. I would be very interested in how your trip goes.
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[QUOTE=SavePros321;2455734]Hopefully you guys are not wasting your time on any profiles that only have one photo.
I'm not talking about one photo is visible and the rest are private: I'm talking about one photo and one photo only on the profile.
I wish SA would make it a requirement that all profiles have to have a minimum of 3 (different) photos in order to be shown.
Those 1 pic only accounts are just spam accounts. I don't take any female seriously who only has one damn photo on her profile. I treat them the same as I would on Tinder: Next![/QUOTE]You have a disrespectful and condescending tone, in this comment and the one above this.
And I need to call bull& on your idea that any girl that has just one photo is automatically a scammer? There are millions of guys and girls all across SA all across the globe. Have you sampled and tested ALL of them? I have personally had some good arrangements with girls who happened to have just one photo. And I have run into tons of scammers who have 10 glossy spreads. If anything, some one who has very glamorous, model looking, in gorgeous bikini, with a fabulous background, high quality camera photos is more likely to be a scammer or at least a professional who is doing this purely for commercial reasons. The slightly shy, first timer or semi hesitant student type girl stepping into the waters in a somewhat careful manner is likely to be covered up, not too many photos for privacy reasons and photo quality may not be good.
One of my best ever arrangements was with a European girl who had a single photo, was in my town for a few months, and photo quality was crappy. She did not look all that great in the photo and she did not want to meet me at all and I too was not particularly keen. When we finally met, she looked super gorgeous, the meet went so well and we had a torrid affair for nearly 2 months, one of the best sex ever; she was a few months short of 22, blonde, amazing bod and cute face and nice breath and tasty pussy, spoke good English but sexy foreign access and was just awesome in bed. I almost cried when she went back to her home country as I knew I would have huge difficulty finding someone equally good and so far I have and't. So, I would never have these silly rules like "all one photo girls are scammers" etc. And most importantly, to anyone wanting to try out SA or any other sugar babe sites for that matter, I would try them out on your own, form your own views, use your own brain, and enjoy the process. This thread and other mongers writing here are good for interesting anecdotes and entertainment, but their experiences will never be your experiences. Stop listening to anyone claiming to be experts and do what comes naturally, using your own brain.
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[QUOTE=Pessimist;2455832]And I need to call bull& on your idea that any girl that has just one photo is automatically a scammer?.[/QUOTE]Where did I say anything about 1 pic profiles being "scammers"?
[QUOTE=SavePros321;2455734]Those 1 pic only accounts are just spam accounts. I don't take any female seriously who only has one damn photo on her profile.[/QUOTE]At least get my quote correct!
And I stand by what I said. Again, my information is you S A specific. Any dating profile that you come across on Tinder, Bumble, SA, etc, where the female profile one and only one photo is either:
A) A spam account.
B) Someone trying to "Catfish".
C) Someone who doesn't give a shit enough to care about dating. So why would you waste your time on someone who doesn't even give a shit enough to upload more photos of themselves?
Sorry you didn't know this. I mean, you can even google the shit yourself and find people saying the exact same thing (only I am smart enough to know this stuff instinctively and didn't need anyone to tell me something so obvious:
[B]How to Spot Fake Online Profiles[/B]
3. They only have one photo.
"Having only one photo can be a major red flag, especially if the person is extremely attractive in that one photo."
[URL]https://onlineprofilepros.com/spot-fake-online-profiles/[/URL]
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[QUOTE=SavePros321;2455738]Man, you are a scammers's wet dream! This guy is guaranteeing all kinds of big bucks without even getting a sniff of the panties!
This is why I tell you guys to never ever show your face on these SB sites. Now all the guys in Nigeria and Bangalore know that this one sends money to any hot piece of ass without requiring a meeting first!
If I ever lose my job I will supplement my income by just putting up profiles of hot 22 yr olds on SA to get goobers to send me money with nothing but a digital pinky-swear required of me.[/QUOTE]I played my hand and I lost. Big deal. I will treat them as prostitutes from now on. I thought there was a difference between an arrangement and an escort. I have met her in person. I thought she would be great to have as a sugar baby. This woman is a good-looking UC student. She kept saying she did not want to be a working girl. One report on ISG said that an UC Berkeley woman received $3000 a month. I was trying for $2000. I will not give her any more money but she is still texting me once a day. Right now she is at one of the local demonstrations. I am probably a fall back position for her now. Have fun with your $30 dollar tattooed hookers with a kid in Medellin if that is your thing. I will probably meet you down there one day.
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[QUOTE=LshRoomer;2455328]It took a degree of effort to seal the deal. We all know this to be true. The chatting, ghosting, and picture trading is endless and you do have to find those girls that show heightened interest or ask why don't you write them often in order to increase your probability for success.[/QUOTE]OK total respect to fellow mongers out there and whatever floats your boat is your thing and it's not for me to judge but good heavens there seem to be a lot of deluded fools on this thread (perhaps you aren't deluded but you actually enjoy the experience of being taken for a fool, if so I apologise).
I usually post on another specific forum, but bored with this WuFlu lockdown I started looking around to see how the rest of the world lives and I came upon this thread.
The more I read the farther my chin dropped toward the floor. I could barely believe the naivety that I was reading on a forum dedicated to having sex with prostitutes.
Look guys, these "SBs" of which you speak are prostitutes, very expensive prostitutes and prostitutes that play hard to get and take a lot of time and effort to have sex with, you know what that makes them? Very bad prostitutes.
I don't wish to single out one poster but this post summed it up for me, why on earth should you have to go to all that trouble to have sex with a woman whom you are paying to have sex with?
I used to go through all that effort as a young man desperately seeking to have sex with a woman I fancied, the dates, the dressing up, the trying to impress, the attempt to prove I have game, the spending money on expensive dinners in the sad hope that she might find me acceptable to her, the disappointment when she decided I didn't meet her high standards or that she actually had a better offer that night. But see, I wasn't paying these women money to have sex, I wanted sex at the end of it without payment.
Then I discovered prostitutes and my world became clearer. I want sex? I pay for it and I get it on my terms and she does my bidding. No more desperately trying to please, I have what she wants and if she wants it I better get what I want no questions asked, no begging, and as I am the customer I will set the terms of the deal.
See how simple that is guys?
What in the name of absolute fcuk are you putting yourselves through all these hoops for to get what everyone else here is getting with minimal effort?
Did you not suffer enough rejection in your lives as young adolescents? Are you desperately trying to recreate that teenage angst as older men?
Are you trying to prove something to yourselves about your alpha male status? Because I hate to break it to you, you're all coming across as pussy-whipped cukcs. You're putting up with all the shit of middle-class, middle-aged, married American guys desperate to have sex with hot young women and paying top dollar for all the aggravation.
Wake up guys, you clearly have money to burn, take the easy option and just pick an honest, professional wh () re instead of these woman who are treating you worse than your wives.
Do you feel good knowing that after you pay hundreds of dollars to fcuk them they go home and share the money with the sort of deadbeat, jock losers that used to bully you at school? Is this some sort of reverse revenge thing going on?
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[QUOTE=BigBossMan;2455879]I played my hand and I lost. Big deal. I will treat them as prostitutes from now on. I thought there was a difference between an arrangement and an escort. I have met her in person. I thought she would be great to have as a sugar baby. This woman is a good-looking UC student. She kept saying she did not want to be a working girl. One report on ISG said that an UC Berkeley woman received $3000 a month. I was trying for $2000. I will not give her any more money but she is still texting me once a day. Right now she is at one of the local demonstrations. I am probably a fall back position for her now. Have fun with your $30 dollar tattooed hookers with a kid in Medellin if that is your thing. I will probably meet you down there one day.[/QUOTE]Not my place to tell a grown man what to do with his money.
Anytime I see those kinds of numbers floated around, I then ask myself:
"What is it that one woman could do for me for that amount of money?
I know that:
- If I wanted to spend $3000 on sex, I could find 10 college babes who would be more than happy to take $300 per meet up. Or 2 chicks that I really dig who I can give $300 to 5 times each.
- I could spend $3000 on YouTube, Instagram, and Facebook ads and make $30,000.
- Don't even get me started on Medellin. My last trip I banged 20 different women and only spent $1500 on the endeavor.
I could go on, but nothing leads me to the conclusion that any one woman would be worth $3000 for any reason whatsoever.
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[QUOTE=Hilo77;2455885]OK total respect to fellow mongers out there and whatever floats your boat is your thing and it's not for me to judge but good heavens there seem to be a lot of deluded fools on this thread (perhaps you aren't deluded but you actually enjoy the experience of being taken for a fool, if so I apologise).
I usually post on another specific forum, but bored with this WuFlu lockdown I started looking around to see how the rest of the world lives and I came upon this thread.
The more I read the farther my chin dropped toward the floor. I could barely believe the naivety that I was reading on a forum dedicated to having sex with prostitutes.
Look guys, these "SBs" of which you speak are prostitutes, very expensive prostitutes and prostitutes that play hard to get and take a lot of time and effort to have sex with, you know what that makes them? Very bad prostitutes.
I don't wish to single out one poster but this post summed it up for me, why on earth should you have to go to all that trouble to have sex with a woman whom you are paying to have sex with?
I used to go through all that effort as a young man desperately seeking to have sex with a woman I fancied, the dates, the dressing up, the trying to impress, the attempt to prove I have game, the spending money on expensive dinners in the sad hope that she might find me acceptable to her, the disappointment when she decided I didn't meet her high standards or that she actually had a better offer that night. But see, I wasn't paying these women money to have sex, I wanted sex at the end of it without payment.[/QUOTE]Hey,
This guy gets it, LOL. One of the best posts that I've read in a long while.
I don't have anything further to add.
But in all fairness: professional wh () res have deadbeat, jock losers too, LOL.
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[QUOTE=Hilo77;2455885]OK total respect to fellow mongers out there and whatever floats your boat is your thing and it's not for me to judge but good heavens there seem to be a lot of deluded fools on this thread (perhaps you aren't deluded but you actually enjoy the experience of being taken for a fool, if so I apologise). [/QUOTE]It is just another game and I am bored. I usually go to Europe in the summer and probably will not go this year. I get tired of prostitutes too. With Covid 19, it would be a little better if the girl is maybe only fucking one other guy. You can find straight out hookers in my town on Seeking.
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[QUOTE=Hilo77;2455885]
Do you feel good knowing that after you pay hundreds of dollars to fcuk them they go home and share the money with the sort of deadbeat, jock losers that used to bully you at school? Is this some sort of reverse revenge thing going on?[/QUOTE]For me I know that SA provides me with better 'bang' for my mongering buck. My current girl sticks around for 4 hours of sexual activity for $300 whereas a similar professional would be asking $2,000. On my business trips where I have take a SB for a set weekly fee of $700 and had a sexual companion for 7 nights.
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[QUOTE=Hilo77;2455885]
Look guys, these "SBs" of which you speak are prostitutes, very expensive prostitutes and prostitutes that play hard to get and take a lot of time and effort to have sex with, you know what that makes them? Very bad prostitutes.
[/QUOTE]Hilo, normally I wouldn't respond to a such a rant, but you put some thought into your screed, so I thought I'd reply.
On SA, there are gals that provide GF experiences that are much better than regular prostitutes, and some gals that provide hellish experiences much worse than regular prostitutes. In this thread, we are merely discussing on how to find the former. That's all.
I hooked up with 24-25 SBs, and this is out of about 50-60 meet-and-greets. None of them were prostitutes. Zero. No exaggeration. You might think I got fooled by some of them, but I didn't. Half of the 24-25 never even asked me for a dime. My SBs included a law student, an accountant, a restaurant owner, a Berkeley undergrad, a PhD student, a website designer, a stage hand, a recent divorcee, several people starting a new business, etc. They weren't lying. We talked about all this shit while we were shooting whisky or drinking wine. We all know there are young gals that are into older and successful guys. How else are we going to easily make the connection, other than via SA? Many of these SBs genuinely liked me. Again, I wasn't fooled. I can tell when a gal really likes me. But there definitely are prostitutes on SA and other undesirables, but we mostly try to avoid them. They are pretty easy to spot.
BTW, no one ever said we were giving up prostitutes to find SBs. While I was active on SA, I continued to sleep with prostitutes on a weekly basis.
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[QUOTE=SavePros321;2455890]Hey,
But in all fairness: professional wh () res have deadbeat, jock losers too, LOL.[/QUOTE]For sure, but as I am not paying upwards of a grand to sleep with her in between the free sex she's giving deadbeat jock it kinda doesn't bother me who else she's banging.
Furthermore as I haven't spent weeks desperately trying to convince her what a great guy I am so she will be nice to me and let me give her money, I actually don't care about the fact that she thinks more highly of the guy who doesn't give her money and expects her to screw him for free.
The fact that a wh () re thinks I am a first class asshole has never bothered me, but if I had spent weeks and hundreds of dollars to convince her I was a nice guy it might hurt a bit.
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2455939]Hilo, normally I wouldn't respond to a such a rant, but you put some thought into your screed, so I thought I'd reply.
On SA, there are gals that provide GF experiences that are much better than regular prostitutes, and some gals that provide hellish experiences much worse than regular prostitutes. In this thread, we are merely discussing on how to find the former. That's all.
I hooked up with 24-25 SBs, and this is out of about 50-60 meet-and-greets. None of them were prostitutes. Zero. No exaggeration. You might think I got fooled by some of them, but I didn't. Half of the 24-25 never even asked me for a dime. My SBs included a law student, an accountant, a restaurant owner, a Berkeley undergrad, a PhD student, a website designer, a stage hand, a recent divorcee, several people starting a new business, etc. They weren't lying. We talked about all this shit while we were shooting whisky or drinking wine. We all know there are young gals that are into older and successful guys. How else are we going to easily make the connection, other than via SA? Many of these SBs genuinely liked me. Again, I wasn't fooled. I can tell when a gal really likes me. But there definitely are prostitutes on SA and other undesirables, but we mostly try to avoid them. They are pretty easy to spot.
BTW, no one ever said we were giving up prostitutes to find SBs. While I was active on SA, I continued to sleep with prostitutes on a weekly basis.[/QUOTE]Fair enough, so you use it as a dating site to meet a better class of girlfriend, most of us would use Tinder for that and not expect to pay to screw the dates, but each to his own.
But at the end of the day you have not contradicted anything I have said, the SBs have made it clear by the very fact that they are on SA that they view the relationships they seek as transactional. They are looking for "older and successful" guys (you are one of these presumably) to have sex with and to get paid for doing so. Sure they are intelligent lasses, they know how to stroke "older and successful" guys' egos and will never say that outright, but the fact that they are on SA is a pretty big neon flashing sign.
I can tell that you are not so naive as to believe you are the only "older and successful" guy that these recent divorcees and Berkely undergrads are shooting wine and whiskey with. You are cool with that, you enjoy the GFE while having your ego stroked, that's nice. I enjoy it when I am in a brothel and the h**ker pretends like she is my girfriend for the hour, it's a bonus if it happens and she'll get a nice tip at the end of it.
The fact remains, however, that you are paying a hell of a lot of money and going through huge efforts to sleep with (ok, semi) prostitutes, and that just amazes me.
But like I say, each to their own.
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2455939]Hilo, normally I wouldn't respond to a such a rant, but you put some thought into your screed, so I thought I'd reply.
On SA, there are gals that provide GF experiences that are much better than regular prostitutes, and some gals that provide hellish experiences much worse than regular prostitutes. In this thread, we are merely discussing on how to find the former. That's all.
I hooked up with 24-25 SBs, and this is out of about 50-60 meet-and-greets. None of them were prostitutes. Zero. No exaggeration. You might think I got fooled by some of them, but I didn't. Half of the 24-25 never even asked me for a dime. My SBs included a law student, an accountant, a restaurant owner, a Berkeley undergrad, a PhD student, a website designer, a stage hand, a recent divorcee, several people starting a new business, etc. They weren't lying. We talked about all this shit while we were shooting whisky or drinking wine. We all know there are young gals that are into older and successful guys. How else are we going to easily make the connection, other than via SA? Many of these SBs genuinely liked me. Again, I wasn't fooled. I can tell when a gal really likes me. But there definitely are prostitutes on SA and other undesirables, but we mostly try to avoid them. They are pretty easy to spot.
BTW, no one ever said we were giving up prostitutes to find SBs. While I was active on SA, I continued to sleep with prostitutes on a weekly basis.[/QUOTE]Sorry, I have to disagree girls on SA are definitely prostitutes. They may be slightly higher classes. Remember most everyone on the site is lying in one form or another and it is definitely transactional.
Have to disagree with you on this one.
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Are we all looking for the same things? Are we not diverse?
For me, there is more to it than just the sex. I have been watching movies about artists and models. Specifically how a young woman can be a muse and reignite passions in an older man. The two movies that the 22-year old and I both had watched were "La Belle Noiseuse" and "Breakfast at Tiffany's". She understood her role. She was able to compare herself to Holly Golightly and tell me how she was different. During the Covid-19 pandemic, I have been taking a writing class. In fact, I wrote a short story about our first meeting. I submitted it for publication already. In the story, I compare her to a gypsy in one paragraph. So even the scammer part of her is intriguing to me. I recognized it immediately. For me, I have to feel like a fool to be able to write about it. How many guys here have been made a fool by a beautiful woman? Don't we all have a Bezukhov pursuing a Helene story in our lives?
Like I told her, it would have been easier to meet her in her own country where there are legal brothels. There I could go get my rocks off and then take her to dinner and have a conversation. Of course, she is not going to go to dinner with a man forty-five years her senior just because she enjoys it. At least, I don't think she would. On the other hand, I don't want to pay for her education without a sexual component. So we came to an impasse.
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Different strokes
[QUOTE=Hilo77;2455981]For sure, but as I am not paying upwards of a grand to sleep with her in between the free sex she's giving deadbeat jock it kinda doesn't bother me who else she's banging.
Furthermore as I haven't spent weeks desperately trying to convince her what a great guy I am so she will be nice to me and let me give her money, I actually don't care about the fact that she thinks more highly of the guy who doesn't give her money and expects her to screw him for free.
The fact that a wh () re thinks I am a first class asshole has never bothered me, but if I had spent weeks and hundreds of dollars to convince her I was a nice guy it might hurt a bit.[/QUOTE]In an effort to avoid any bickering back and forth, distorting the goal of the forum, I'll try to keep my opinion (bc it is just my opinion) brief.
Hilo77, my fellow monger.
You came off strong, but I'll keep it respectful. We have a stark difference of opinion.
First, you are wrong that SA girls, as a whole, are prostitutes.
With that being said, I do realize that under the strict definition of prostitute (money for sex), then they would be considered as such. And I think that was your larger point. If you are paying, just like a prostitute, then why would you go through all this work with chatting, getting to know her, and drinking with her, just to do the same action that comes 10 x easier at a brothel. This is a good point, which has been discussed in this forum at least 100 times. If you RTFF, you would easily see that one of the purposes of this forum was to discuss another avenue that doesn't include the local brothel or FKK club. So I'm not sure why someone would go to a forum focused on eating carbs (for example) and start to deride the contributors for sharing pasta, cake and bread recipes!
Dude, RTFF. No one here is recommending to drop thousands for a good night out, or to pay these chicks before you meet or bang them, or to pay too much. We are saying the exact opposite. It's funny to me when people have opinions from something out of context, when all you have to do is RTFF. Recommendations have been to avoid chatting too long with a new SA girl before meeting, minimizing the effort pre-bang, so I'm not sure where you get your comment about spending weeks trying to convince. We have been suggesting to keep yourself safe, don't allow these chicks to scam you, guard your identity, get the most out of your experience (this is why all of us including you, are here) and avoid anyone that even resembles a pro. Midwestern made a good point. We are pointing out the techniques to find good performers for GFE.
It appears that you are viewing the hobby from a singular perspective (bust and go), while ridiculing those that behave counter to what you perceive as "the best way" to enjoy the hobby. If the guys here, including me, are having a fucking great time, for cheap (yes cheap. About 40/ hour, maybe less) and sometimes free, then the goal has been met. Not going to entertain your jock comments. Those were funny though. Not to beat the dead horse but before you go tell everyone they are doing it wrong, RTFF and get context.
Cost. Thousands? WTF are you talking about? Your opinion is misguided again. In EU, I'd be paying 150 and up per hour (maybe less for incall) for a regular escort (cold, mechanical, banged 10 guys that day). I don't' know about you but I want to bust 3 nuts at least, without being rushed. I'll easily chill with a SB for 6-8 hours for 300 eu (sometimes less or none). This is approximately 37 eu per hour. You can't get that cheap at an FKK. You may attempt to add in the cost of dinners, hookah lounges, skybars, and drinks, etc. I can't speak for the other guys, but I would be at these places anyway, with or without the girl, so it's not an added expense. For what many of us are looking for, we are probably paying less than you!
The experience. This the biggest deal for me. I'm all about GFE. Bust a nut and go doesn't appeal to me, doesn't float my boat, and I simply don't like it. I think I speak for many of the guys here, but I hated the cold encounters, scams, mechanical sex, clock watching, and the general aloofness that comes along when dealing with escorts / prostitutes. GFE is difficult to find consistently with prostitutes, if at all. There are some. I have a few escorts that I still use that provide great services, but this is not common and probably based somewhat on rapport. If you don't want GFE, then the sugar bowl probably isn't for you. SBs give those who want GFE on demand (when traveling, etc) a viable, more consistent option. Some may even bang without exchanging money, which again shits on your "they are all prostitutes" comment. The little bit of time that you take to get to know your SB (usually about a few days) before your outing will almost guarantee (there are exceptions) you a GFE session. Subsequent visits may be cheap, will be more relaxed, and from what I've seen, become more enjoyable. I personally have met girls on SA that I haven't paid at all and still banged. I implore you to show me a prostitute willing to do this.
Ignoring the other comments. Look dude. We all get sex from many venues. Home, on the road, wherever. Some paid. Some free. Some an exchange (I did IT work one time for a CIF BJ. LOL). Some people are into fetishes. Some are vanilla. Everyone swims in their own lane. I want GFE without a relationship (don't have time for that) and it needs to be somewhat real and consistent. That's what my search is for and this forum has been helpful in that regard. If I were a brothel guy, my aim would be different. I personally don't see how brothel guys bang a girl that just finished with another guy, and you see that guy walking away? But, it's not for me to judge. It's my preference. Let those guys have their fun. For me, SBs are a waaaay better use of my funds. 200 - 300 ensures a whole night full of fun, when I don't' have time to court a normal girl. So are SBs pretty much prostitutes? Yeah, some, kinda, not really, it's blurry. Would I group a regular SB together with an FKK girl or a regular escort? Hell no!
02.
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Age and SB?
Reading this thread with great fascination and respect for some of the titans of ISG contributing. I'm intrigued but wonder if I've aged out from using this option. If a guys is in his mid 60's (But could pass for 10 years younger) does this mean he's out of the running for many SBs? I've found on some of my mongering trips that sometimes the real young ones (18-22) turn me down. I assume that, while Dad is a fantasy, they just aren't down with blowing grandpa LOL. I have other good attributes. I've got a Dad bod but am not obese. I'm kind, intelligent, funny and most important generous if I get what I want. I'm also with Steve that the chase sounds fun. My home area is way overpriced but when I start traveling domestically I might give it a try.
Another thing, I'm finding early 20's chicas I don't really vibe with. Often more comfortable with 25-35 yo.
I get the feeling that a lot of you guys who are touting SA are 40-50's. What say you about this?
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Can you travel from city to city in Mexico right now?
Planning a trip to Mexico for late June, I want to try the SA route in Cancun to start. Another member recommended I meet girls on SA from CDMX and invite them to stay with me in Cancun for a few days. I speak horrible Spanish. Is this doable? If CDMX opens up, I also want to spend a few days there as well. Any thoughts on how easy or hard it is to pull from SA? Any thoughts or opinions would be appreciated.
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[QUOTE=HarvestBoi;2456070]Reading this thread with great fascination and respect for some of the titans of ISG contributing. I'm intrigued but wonder if I've aged out from using this option. If a guys is in his mid 60's (But could pass for 10 years younger) does this mean he's out of the running for many SBs? I've found on some of my mongering trips that sometimes the real young ones (18-22) turn me down. I assume that, while Dad is a fantasy, they just aren't down with blowing grandpa LOL. I have other good attributes. I've got a Dad bod but am not obese. I'm kind, intelligent, funny and most important generous if I get what I want. I'm also with Steve that the chase sounds fun. My home area is way overpriced but when I start traveling domestically I might give it a try.
Another thing, I'm finding early 20's chicas I don't really vibe with. Often more comfortable with 25-35 yo.
I get the feeling that a lot of you guys who are touting SA are 40-50's. What say you about this?[/QUOTE]Hi HB,
I am younger than you. So, I can't speak with any certainty related to older men. I will say though that at least some girls will be open minded. You should give it a try. You are saying anyway that you are looking for 25-35 age group. By that age, especially 30+, many girls have taken some hard knocks in life, are realistic. Some may be single moms, some may be stuck in low end jobs like receptionists, etc. These past months have been tough for many girls. They are looking for help. As long as you are kind, intelligent, not too pushy / clingy, normal, you will have a good amount of success. You are old enough that you will not be cheated, you can spot the scammers, you will not get too emotionally attached. Be patient, don't be too conscious of your age. It is only in your head, the girl is likewise inwardly focused and wondering if she is attractive enough for you because she knows you may have other choices.
Being in a overpriced city is unfortunate. Decide beforehand what your budget range is and stay patient and disciplined.
And please do tune out the naysayers and nabobs of negativity from here. A couple of recent posters were rude, clueless and I doubt very much that they had any experience whatsoever with real arrangements to be posting any sensible comments. I have been doing this for 4+ years, have been in arrangements with several dozens of girls / women and by and large they were nice, positive and fulfilling and I am quite positive that they were not with prostitutes. I have only pity for fools who think they know anything about me, the girls I had been with, to be making blanket claims about all guys and girls on a site that has millions of members of both genders. Safely ignore them, give it a try, and stay disciplined most importantly.
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Pussy Never Free
The discussions lately on this forum has been so good! Thanks gents!
But let us not forget that pussy is never free. Be it SA or Tinder. A man is always expected to pay usually monetarily and let's not forget cost of time.
To me, it is clear that SeekingArrangement specializes in pairing the older mature men with younger women. Older men have a lot of maturity and worldly knowledge that a younger woman could benefit from not just from his money. Both of these things can help set the young woman up on a proper trajectory in life. This is why the older man and younger woman is a more natural pairing since both have what each other needs. The opposite scenario of an older woman and younger man does *not* hold as true. The older women usually lack the physical attributes that (most) younger males could get on his own. Let's face it. Woman do *not* age typically as well as men physically. For one, the vagina takes a beating through its lifetime with childbirth being just one of the assaults a vagina endures!
Don't get me wrong. I'm on SA for pussy myself but I would offer lending hand to my young woman if she wants from my worldly and industry experience. Just as long as she satisfies my physical needs. That doesn't happen with the k-girls I see weekly. With k-girls, there are both language and cultural barriers. With k-girls its 1 HR and that's it.
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[QUOTE=HarvestBoi;2456070]
I get the feeling that a lot of you guys who are touting SA are 40-50's. What say you about this?[/QUOTE]I am 55+.
When I'm home here in my own country I set my filters at 30-40. I get tired of being lectured by starlets that have no idea of life. Early thirties the sex is the best, 40 has been classy when their body is in good shape.
When I'm overseas in Philippines I only date 20-25 year olds.
I generally will not be seeing any girl over 140 lbs, 70 kgs regardless of age.
As I age I will continue to use money to resolve any age differences.
PP.
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SD age
[QUOTE=HarvestBoi;2456070]Reading this thread with great fascination and respect for some of the titans of ISG contributing. I'm intrigued but wonder if I've aged out from using this option. If a guys is in his mid 60's (But could pass for 10 years younger) does this mean he's out of the running for many SBs?
I get the feeling that a lot of you guys who are touting SA are 40-50's. What say you about this?[/QUOTE]I am in my 50's, but I pretend to be in my 40's on SA. I do this simply because it looks like many SBs filter out guys at 50 and above. But to pull this off, you really have to look like you're whatever age that you say you are.
FWIW, I filter out SBs below 24 years old. Don't get me wrong, I love spending time in the sheets with a 19 year old, but I absolutely hate hanging out and talking with a 19 year old, because we have almost nothing in common to talk about, and given that I consider these SBs to be GFs, I want them to be at least 24 so that we can have fun together outside of the bedroom. So, maybe if you filter out the younger gals, then this puts you less out of the running.
Some of my SBs told me that they had SDs in their 60's and even 70's. But from what they told me, these older guys were not cheap. They lavished the gals with gifts, trips, and shopping. I am not saying that you have to do the same thing. I am just sharing what I was told.
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HB Dive In!
[QUOTE=HarvestBoi;2456070]Reading this thread with great fascination and respect for some of the titans of ISG contributing. I'm intrigued but wonder if I've aged out from using this option. If a guys is in his mid 60's (But could pass for 10 years younger) does this mean he's out of the running for many SBs? I've found on some of my mongering trips that sometimes the real young ones (18-22) turn me down. I assume that, while Dad is a fantasy, they just aren't down with blowing grandpa LOL. I have other good attributes. I've got a Dad bod but am not obese. I'm kind, intelligent, funny and most important generous if I get what I want. I'm also with Steve that the chase sounds fun. My home area is way overpriced but when I start traveling domestically I might give it a try.
Another thing, I'm finding early 20's chicas I don't really vibe with. Often more comfortable with 25-35 yo.
I get the feeling that a lot of you guys who are touting SA are 40-50's. What say you about this?[/QUOTE]HB. Dude. So great to have you join the party. Ignore the recent trolls SA is the only worthy game in town in the USA. Especially if you like the game as I know you do. Age is manageable. 25-35% of girls age doesn't really matter much and 15% prefer significantly older. I do think hair color matters. You can be 75 and as long as your hair isn't full on gray or white they will overlook a lot of the rest. Gray hair seems to be a psychological barrier to some. Of course money overcomes many ills.
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[QUOTE=LshRoomer;2456056]In an effort to avoid any bickering back and forth, distorting the goal of the forum, I'll try to keep my opinion (bc it is just my opinion) brief.
Hilo77, my fellow monger.
You came off strong, but I'll keep it respectful. We have a stark difference of opinion.
First, you are wrong that SA girls, as a whole, are prostitutes.
So are SBs pretty much prostitutes? Yeah, some, kinda, not really, it's blurry. Would I group a regular SB together with an FKK girl or a regular escort? Hell no!
02.[/QUOTE]Thank you for the well-written reply, it's a bit too long for me to answer the points individually but I do take exception to your implication that I did not read the forum. It was reading the forum that had me so drop-jawed in amazement.
All the points I raised related to posts made in the past 10 or so pages. Go back through them and read them if you don't believe me, it's all there, guys blowing hundreds, even thousands of dollars, others proudly proclaiming how they spend weeks lining up their dates, others admitting that they get stood up on a regular basis etc.
The levels of misty-eyed sentimentality and gullibility on display here (do I even need to draw your attention to the post just below yours?) leaves one stunned at how some of these guys even manage a checking account never mind how they got to be the successful rich captains of industry that they paint themselves as.
Perhaps you are filtering out posts that don't suit the idea of sophisticated, older men playing mentor to young, but mature girls who are just seeking to be initiated and guided by a wise and beneficent man of the world. Look that's nice, if that's what your fantasy is, have at it and more power to your elbow.
But you will forgive me if I read a lot of sad old guys with more money than sense chasing after a bunch of semi-pros (we can call them courtesans, gentlemen's companions, high class escorts or part-time models, if that makes it sound better) and getting increasingly desperate as the Holly Golightly of their dreams appears to be holding off for an extra hundred bucks or she ain't going to show when they arrive in her home town on their much-anticipated monthly mid-week business trip.
Like I say, I am sorry if I sound like I am raining on anyone's parade, if this is the fantasy world you want to create please enjoy it but be aware of who and what you are dealing with here guys. They're prostitutes, sure they're not standing on a street corner in a red PVC skirt and thigh high boots or sitting bored in a bikini in an Amsterdam shop window but that is nonetheless what they are, no matter how much you try to convince yourselves otherwise.
You are paying way over the odds to have decent sex with the sort of women people in the rest of the world can screw without complication for fifty bucks and still have a fun time (just for reference sake for $500 I think I could book a suite at the Sheraton in my town and get four semi-pro students, secretaries or bank clerks aged 19-22 and have a great evening. They can buy their own dinner on the way home).
I guess that's America for you, it's grim but such is life in the Land of the Free.
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[QUOTE=HarvestBoi;2456070]I've got a Dad bod but am not obese. I'm kind, intelligent, funny and most important generous if I get what I want. [/QUOTE]In the dating world, women are always talking about the "Prefect Trifecta" or the three 6's.
They all want a man who has the these 3 attributes:
- 6 feet tall (or taller).
- 6-pack (abs).
- 6 figures (money).
If you can manage 2 of the 3 then you should be good. But if you really want to have a competitive edge, drop the dad bod.
Look into the Ketogenic diet. It's damn near impossible to not lose weight on Keto unless you are not actually doing the Keto diet correctly.
Also, look up Gianluca Vacchi (the rich Italian guy always dancing with his younger girlfriend on Instagram).
He's 52 years old (looks much older actually) but he's gray all over.
He's 5'8, but he has two of the three 6's:
- 6-pack.
- 6-figures (actually 7-8 figures).
Model that guy and make it your own.
Hell, look at Jeff Bezos. Dude used to be a skinny pencil-neck but now is buff as fuck. He's 56 and the chick he left his wife for is a smoke show! (even at 50 yrs old).
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[QUOTE=Njoean197;2456081]Planning a trip to Mexico for late June, I want to try the SA route in Cancun to start. Another member recommended I meet girls on SA from CDMX and invite them to stay with me in Cancun for a few days. I speak horrible Spanish. Is this doable? If CDMX opens up, I also want to spend a few days there as well. Any thoughts on how easy or hard it is to pull from SA? Any thoughts or opinions would be appreciated.[/QUOTE]Yes, you can travel from city to city just know the flights are few and far between and you can be easily bumped.
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[QUOTE=HarvestBoi;2456070]Reading this thread with great fascination and respect for some of the titans of ISG contributing. I'm intrigued but wonder if I've aged out from using this option. If a guys is in his mid 60's (But could pass for 10 years younger) does this mean he's out of the running for many SBs? I've found on some of my mongering trips that sometimes the real young ones (18-22) turn me down. I assume that, while Dad is a fantasy, they just aren't down with blowing grandpa LOL. I have other good attributes. I've got a Dad bod but am not obese. I'm kind, intelligent, funny and most important generous if I get what I want. I'm also with Steve that the chase sounds fun. My home area is way overpriced but when I start traveling domestically I might give it a try.
Another thing, I'm finding early 20's chicas I don't really vibe with. Often more comfortable with 25-35 yo.
I get the feeling that a lot of you guys who are touting SA are 40-50's. What say you about this?[/QUOTE]If you haven't traveled, I think you will find the success you are looking for in Latin America (or possibly other regions in the world). For me (age 51), SA in Colombia is a goldmine of opportunity. Money doesn't talk there, it yells. In the US, SA where I am at (DC) is tough (in terms of effort) unless I reduce / change my preferences. I prefer the freshness of 18-19 year olds and with a bit of effort, I can get those much more easily in Colombia. I have also sponsored girls (mostly college students) in the 20-24 range in Medelland and they were great sexually and personality-wise. Latin women seem to have a built-in GFE-chip (by and large anyway) so SA is exactly the right tool in that environment. Sponsored sex is widespread culturally in that region so you are not fighting the uphill battle that you may get in feminist\ized countries.
Disclaimer: Being a nice guy has its merits in the right situations but I would not go to the third world unless you are capable of bringing out your inner caveman / asshole when needed.
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Do Not Feed the Troll
Random thoughts for this AM:
1. Internet 101 - DNFTT.
2. Indonesia is not the USA.
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[QUOTE=Njoean197;2456081]Planning a trip to Mexico for late June, I want to try the SA route in Cancun to start. Another member recommended I meet girls on SA from CDMX and invite them to stay with me in Cancun for a few days. I speak horrible Spanish. Is this doable? If CDMX opens up, I also want to spend a few days there as well. Any thoughts on how easy or hard it is to pull from SA? Any thoughts or opinions would be appreciated.[/QUOTE]I use SA all the time, here in the states and abroad. Its expensive at $90 a month membership. I typically get a 30 day membership get a few connections made, then let the membership got for a while. Here is my experience with SA. Typically I find university students wanting some extra money. These are usually normal girls with a life. They are beautiful and I haven't had any problems with bait and switch. You can pick girls that speak English if you want that too. I typically get a membership a few weeks before a planned trip, make contacts with the ones I like and weed down to a few before I go. I will get their whatsapp so we can text and exchange better photos. You can get a better feel of what the chica is like. I'm not usually shy with them, I am up front about what I like and I ask them the same. We come to an agreement and schedule time together. I have met some really nice girls this way. I still have some that I continue to text with in Mexico and in Columbia.
I have pretty much done away with the street scene, strip joints and massage polars (except if I'm in Bangkok or Pattaya.) I will do the occasional agency in GDL, but SA is my go to in Mexico. In Colombia, its Colombian Cupid. It works exactly the same way.
Now I do have to say you do have to put in some effort with SA. It takes time to qualify the chicas and some will flake out on you. That's why I start only 2 to 3 weeks out to give me time to establish a connection with the ones I like and keep them interested and cull the rest. Its a lot easier to order in from an agency or go to a strip club, but the effort is well worth it in my opinion.
Let me know how it goes.
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[b][u]EDITOR'S NOTE[/u]:[/b] [blue]This report was redacted or deleted to remove sections of the report that were [u]largely argumentative[/u]. Please read the Forum FAQ and the Forum's Posting Guidelines for more information. [i]Thank You![/i][/blue]
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[QUOTE=HarvestBoi;2456070]Reading this thread with great fascination and respect for some of the titans of ISG contributing. I'm intrigued but wonder if I've aged out from using this option. If a guys is in his mid 60's (But could pass for 10 years younger) does this mean he's out of the running for many SBs? I've found on some of my mongering trips that sometimes the real young ones (18-22) turn me down. I assume that, while Dad is a fantasy, they just aren't down with blowing grandpa LOL. I have other good attributes. I've got a Dad bod but am not obese. I'm kind, intelligent, funny and most important generous if I get what I want. I'm also with Steve that the chase sounds fun. My home area is way overpriced but when I start traveling domestically I might give it a try.
Another thing, I'm finding early 20's chicas I don't really vibe with. Often more comfortable with 25-35 yo.
I get the feeling that a lot of you guys who are touting SA are 40-50's. What say you about this?[/QUOTE]I am almost 63 years old and very much overweight and I have used SA quite a bit. Quite a few girls will not want to go with you but plenty enough will, I have had plenty of good experiences with SA girls and a few bad ones too. I receive several private messages every week from new girls on SA and my profile states my age and my photos depict exactly who and what I am so I don't think you will have a problem sourcing girls.
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[QUOTE=Hilo77;2456153]
You are paying way over the odds to have decent sex with the sort of women people in the rest of the world can screw without complication for fifty bucks and still have a fun time (just for reference sake for $500 I think I could book a suite at the Sheraton in my town and get four semi-pro students, secretaries or bank clerks aged 19-22 and have a great evening. They can buy their own dinner on the way home).
[/QUOTE]So I priced business fare to Jakarta for July which would be $6000. Then I reviewed the Jakarta thread and Hilo77 recommends not going to Jakarta for at least three months. So apparently I can't rent a suite at the Jakarta Sheraton and invite 4 college students up for $500 right now.
So I choose to play where I live and try to find someone semi-exclusive. Hopefully she is only fucking two or three other guys. So I have $6000 in airfare with which to play for the next three months and then I can travel to Jakarta although I would probably go to Europe instead.
So I am choosing to play the fool and spend $2000 a month on Holly Golightly because I find her intriguing. If we could find a groove, I think she would be a good sugar baby.
So yesterday she made a date for this morning. I wrote a friend that I thought there was a good chance she is not going to make it. This morning she postponed it until tomorrow.
So we are playing a little control game right now. I keep telling her she needs to start being a good girl. Maybe a light spanking is in order if she makes it over tomorrow.
I will bail if she cancels tomorrow. But I only have one other in the mix right now. I guess the Korean apartment girls are the best and cheaper option in my town. I need a reference to get into that world.
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2455939]You might think I got fooled by some of them, but I didn't. Half of the 24-25 never even asked me for a dime. My SBs included a law student, an accountant, a restaurant owner, a Berkeley undergrad, a PhD student, a website designe.[/QUOTE]Just want to add that if the girl is a premiumn member and also is college verified, then she is likely still a student. They are easy to find.
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Sugar Mommy
I sign on to look for sugar mommy. It's a different world but not for the better. These are what I found
*The featured members are always the same
*The new members and members online now are always the same.
*They put their numbers on their profile asking you to text them
*They are all rich. The net worth of the first few on my Recently Active are 5 million (45), 2 million(42, $300 everyday), 5 million (37, first 5 who text gets $500)
*It is fair to say most are older and fat
*In a span of one hour, I have at least 4 favorited me. All gave me numbers to text them or contact them via kik. Some offer money, the highest is 2000/wk.
*Sugar baby free account can't search by body type, ethnicity, relationship, income, net worth, profile text.
*The cost of sugar baby premium account is $19.95
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[QUOTE=PlayerHater;2456189]If you haven't traveled, I think you will find the success you are looking for in Latin America (or possibly other regions in the world). For me (age 51), SA in Colombia is a goldmine of opportunity. Money doesn't talk there, it yells. In the US, SA where I am at (DC) is tough (in terms of effort) unless I reduce / change my preferences. I prefer the freshness of 18-19 year olds and with a bit of effort, I can get those much more easily in Colombia. I have also sponsored girls (mostly college students) in the 20-24 range in Medelland and they were great sexually and personality-wise. Latin women seem to have a built-in GFE-chip (by and large anyway) so SA is exactly the right tool in that environment. Sponsored sex is widespread culturally in that region so you are not fighting the uphill battle that you may get in feminist\ized countries.
Disclaimer: Being a nice guy has its merits in the right situations but I would not go to the third world unless you are capable of bringing out your inner caveman / asshole when needed.[/QUOTE]Great Post. I was not a big fan of MDE and would not go back, but I understand why some guys real like it. I have found my Gold Mine in MTY. There is no middle ground here, but there are some Major Gems, that are totally down to earth, and not expensive compared to other parts of the world. It is so good here, I probably will not do SA in the states anymore, 6 hour drive, but well worth it. I am banging a super hot girl, 5.7', buck 105. Sweet, fun, and loves to party. I Also have a couple of total Porno Girls. I love the Skinny girls and destinations with no of Sex Tourist. There were just too many Sex Tourist in MDE and Kiev as well. At the end they were also very low end Sex Tourist, that made it even worse.
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I now understand Hilo's POV
I didn't realize that Hilo mostly mongers in Jakarta until you pointed it out. Now I understand his POV. I used to monger in Thailand, where young pros are plentiful and they are everywhere and so they are super easy to find, and they are super friendly, super willing, so eager to please, and offering plenty of GFE, and it can be all had for VERY cheap.
If I were still mongering in Thailand, then I might also think that SA is a waste of money, and I would definitely think that using SA in Thailand would be stupid. I've also been to Indonesia (Batam, Jakarta, Bali, etc.) and the mongering scene is similar in many ways.
But at some point, I would want something different. Even right now, I am looking for new experiences. I think Hilo hasn't gotten to that point yet, and perhaps he never will. I met a lot of mongers in SE Asia, and they are pretty happy being set in their ways.
As for the new experience that I've been seeking lately. Last year, I hooked up with a married lady in her 40's and we had a short affair. No money ever changed hands. She was just a neglected wife, and so she was HUNGRY for affection. Wow, we had some passionate love making. So now, I've been hitting on gals that are 40-something, to try to repeat that experience. I am sure Hilo would tell me that I am stupid because he is banging 20 year olds.
[QUOTE=Steve9696;2456223]Random thoughts for this AM:
1. Internet 101 - DNFTT.
2. Indonesia is not the USA.[/QUOTE]
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5 photos
Cancun Trip
[QUOTE=Njoean197;2456081]Planning a trip to Mexico for late June, I want to try the SA route in Cancun to start. Another member recommended I meet girls on SA from CDMX and invite them to stay with me in Cancun for a few days. I speak horrible Spanish. Is this doable? If CDMX opens up, I also want to spend a few days there as well. Any thoughts on how easy or hard it is to pull from SA? Any thoughts or opinions would be appreciated.[/QUOTE]A few ISG gringos have told me of great success with SA in CDMX. One guy says he typically offers them $2,000 for a date of a few hours that includes dinner and sex. Some, he says, spend the night. He hardly ever sees escorts anymore and I don't know if he even visits ISG. If so, maybe he will respond. Luna spent six days with me in February on the Yucatan peninsula, including Cancun, but we have a close relationship. I wouldn't want to spend a long time with any girl until I knew her to be a good companion. I suppose most girls would feel the same but money talks. I speak enough Spanish to get along but plenty of guys get by with Google translate. English speaking escorts are very rare.
Try not to miss CDMX, it is a great town. Check your mail, I will send you a direct message.
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[QUOTE=Bdb013;2456283]I use SA all the time, here in the states and abroad. Its expensive at $90 a month membership. I typically get a 30 day membership get a few connections made, then let the membership got for a while. Here is my experience with SA. Typically I find university students wanting some extra money. These are usually normal girls with a life. They are beautiful and I haven't had any problems with bait and switch. You can pick girls that speak English if you want that too. I typically get a membership a few weeks before a planned trip, make contacts with the ones I like and weed down to a few before I go. I will get their whatsapp so we can text and exchange better photos. You can get a better feel of what the chica is like. I'm not usually shy with them, I am up front about what I like and I ask them the same. We come to an agreement and schedule time together. I have met some really nice girls this way. I still have some that I continue to text with in Mexico and in Columbia.
I have pretty much done away with the street scene, strip joints and massage polars (except if I'm in Bangkok or Pattaya.) I will do the occasional agency in GDL, but SA is my go to in Mexico. In Colombia, its Colombian Cupid. It works exactly the same way.
Now I do have to say you do have to put in some effort with SA. It takes time to qualify the chicas and some will flake out on you. That's why I start only 2 to 3 weeks out to give me time to establish a connection with the ones I like and keep them interested and cull the rest. Its a lot easier to order in from an agency or go to a strip club, but the effort is well worth it in my opinion.
Let me know how it goes.[/QUOTE]Just registered on SA, but haven't paid the premium yet. Expected to see many hot woman, but after I did the search, pretty much nothing that would caught my eye came up. Most of the girls are average in the looks department. Is it worth $90/ month? I don't know, but since there are no other options, I may give it a try. It looks like SA is for older guys, looking for a long-term mutually beneficial relationships. I'm in my mid 30's, and have only 2-3 weeks left in CDMX, and my mongering budget is limited.
Just had a terrible session with an independent girl from.
Mileroticos, bait and switch, never again. Never trusted this website, but again, because of Covid19 I could not find any other options. Still no success on Tinder, Badoo, FB.
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Update. First Time in this World
"God helps three kinds of people: fools, children, and drunkards".
Holly Golightly came over on Saturday night. On the messaging app, she told me she is very considerate of people's time. When she was 30 minutes late, she told me that she is always late. That will become an issue as time goes by. Another drawback is that she still lives with her parents. She moved back in during the Covid-19 crisis. She stayed at my place over 2 hours.
The sexual experience was the equilvalent to a one hour room at Sharks. French, FIV, toy play, BBBJ and covered sex. She is petite young woman so it was the tightest pussy I have felt in a long time.
I enjoy talking to her. She is an intelligent young woman.
I would have been more comfortable at the $400 level but I can go $500 a week for the rest of the year if I am not traveling. A good test will be if she considers it PPP or a weekly allowance. If she might come over twice in a week perhaps. Doubtful. She is quite busy. She has a job and she goes to school full time. She also has intermittent modeling gigs.
From what I gather from the conversation, she had previous sugar daddys. One lived in London while she lived in Central Europe. What would a London guy pay for a Eurogirl? She was probably only 18 at the time.
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My Thoughts on SA
I was curious so I posted a profile. It has only been up for two days but I am getting responses nonetheless.
Immediately it reminds me of the old Backpage / CL but with a $90 joiners fee and the guise of being an upscale website for professionals. The joke is many and I repeat many of the supposed sugar babies look like average civilian tramps barely worthy the $80 they used advertise for on BP or CL. Add to that hotel costs or risk having them in your home.
As far as the USA it is worthless to me since I live next door to Tijuana. However I can definitely see SA being a goldmine while traveling overseas. I will definitely do that the next time I go somewhere SA oriented.
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Congrats Man!
[QUOTE=BigBossMan;2456955]"God helps three kinds of people: fools, children, and drunkards".
Holly Golightly came over on Saturday night. On the messaging app, she told me she is very considerate of people's time. When she was 30 minutes late, she told me that she is always late. That will become an issue as time goes by. Another drawback is that she still lives with her parents. She moved back in during the Covid-19 crisis. She stayed at my place over 2 hours.
The sexual experience was the equilvalent to a one hour room at Sharks. French, FIV, toy play, BBBJ and covered sex. She is petite young woman so it was the tightest pussy I have felt in a long time.
I enjoy talking to her. She is an intelligent young woman.
I would have been more comfortable at the $400 level but I can go $500 a week for the rest of the year if I am not traveling. A good test will be if she considers it PPP or a weekly allowance. If she might come over twice in a week perhaps. Doubtful. She is quite busy. She has a job and she goes to school full time. She also has intermittent modeling gigs.
From what I gather from the conversation, she had previous sugar daddys. One lived in London while she lived in Central Europe. What would a London guy pay for a Eurogirl? She was probably only 18 at the time.[/QUOTE]First SA score. Congrats! Yeah you probably could have done better on price but if you can afford it the extra $100 is no big deal especially as an SA virgin. Key will be for her to not be a clock watcher. I usually get 3-4 hours with a girl (not all sex of course) and some sleep over no extra charge. Might be fun to take her on a drinks or dinner date say and if she says that would be more that's a huge red flag.
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[QUOTE=BigBossMan;2456955]Another drawback is that she still lives with her parents. She moved back in during the Covid-19 crisis. She stayed at my place over 2 hours.
I would have been more comfortable at the $400 level but I can go $500 a week for the rest of the year if I am not traveling. A good test will be if she considers it PPP or a weekly allowance. If she might come over twice in a week perhaps. Doubtful. She is quite busy. She has a job and she goes to school full time. She also has intermittent modeling gigs.[/QUOTE]Her living at home can be an advantage. I had a 24 year old SB that lived at home, and so she always wanted to be out and was eager for meetups. She even liked staying overnights at a hotel so that she could get stay up late and get wasted, and then get to be hungover the next day in peace.
As for the weekly allowance, as long as you guys don't do the mental accounting, with you trying to make sure you get the average price per meet down while she tries to get the average price per meet up, then $500/ week is a very good price. But if she's busy, then you may have to revert to PPM. If you guys are not in a big USA City, then the price can be $300 PPM or even less. Maybe you mentioned it already, but can you say where you live?
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[QUOTE=Artisttyp;2456968]I was curious so I posted a profile. It has only been up for two days but I am getting responses nonetheless.
As far as the USA it is worthless to me since I live next door to Tijuana. However I can definitely see SA being a goldmine while traveling overseas. I will definitely do that the next time I go somewhere SA oriented.[/QUOTE]I can see why you would say it is worthless given how close you are to Tijuana, but the whole idea about being a SD is that it is not just about the pussy. Don't get me wrong. I am not paying for any girl who is bad in bed, but I am looking for one who makes me feel good out of the bedroom too.
I met one gal in Mexico City, and she is cute and sweet. I pay her $120 and go at it with her all night. I am not bare with her, but I have had BB with other women there. Unlike most of the stripper / hooker types in Tijuana, I enjoy hanging out with her.
Given how cheap airfares are within Mexico, you can go to Tijuana and fly wherever for cheap in Mexico. Given the economic problems with Covid, there are more high quality women than ever before on SA in Mexico and elsewhere.
My goal is to have a network of SBs in Mexico like I do in Colombia and fly them to wherever I want to be in Mexico.
I was just in Mexico and scored a Colombian there because I so miss my Colombian women. She had not had sex in months and I could tell. She needed a bit of educating on being a SB but once she understood it, she was all in. I may be taking her and her Colombian roommate to Puerto Vallarta for an unlimited 4 days of threesomes, but I am going to check out some SB prospects in Mexico City first.
And I have been using the time to fortify relationships with women in South America. When I do make it to Colombia, I have four new SB prospects waiting on me a stewardess, a virgin, a woman who won a Miss Colombia pageant in her city, and a woman who was going to go pro in rugby.
And in Brazil, I may have the best looking of them all, a woman sending me daily videos who IMO has the body of Jenna Jameson but is even better looking than she was. She sent me a picture of her dancing, and it reminded me of Shakira.
And in the USA, I have had SBs who won fitness competitions, whose friends compared them to super models, and a fitness nut who dated the richest guy in her state. Finding women like this takes time, and I do not care how much money you have, getting a woman like this to be your SB takes game.
A friend of mine could not believe what I was doing. He said, "How do you have so many beautiful women? They all know about each other, and they all still love you. " I told him that I was consistent in how often I saw them and what I paid them, treated them well when I was with them, and most importantly, was honest with them. Many guys think that they can trick these women, and the best looking women have had every line or trick run on them. They love it when someone is honest with them.
You are right about SA and Backpage. I have been on SA a long time, and the quality of the women in the USA has gone way downhill. That is one of the reasons I have started looking to find SBs elsewhere.
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2457065]
As for the weekly allowance, as long as you guys don't do the mental accounting, with you trying to make sure you get the average price per meet down while she tries to get the average price per meet up, then $500/ week is a very good price. But if she's busy, then you may have to revert to PPM. If you guys are not in a big USA City, then the price can be $300 PPM or even less. Maybe you mentioned it already, but can you say where you live?[/QUOTE]MW, I was doing $400 a meet around where I live. Thing is that I have more time flexibility now and am single so I can travel.
Going to Mexico I am paying $200 for all day and $50 to $100 an hour.
I am seeing Brazilians and Peruvians wanting the same as Mexicans.
With Colombia, I am paying $100 for all day and $60 for an hour, and I could probably go even lower than that, but I do not want to.
In general, I am getting better for less in Latin America, and there is also something about an older guy and younger gal being more accepted in Latin America than here.
Mark Cuban said in any business that you have the innovators, imitators, and then the idiots. IMO Colombia and Brazil are at the innovator stage. Most of the women I have spoken to there have not been on SB-SD dates or just a handful. In Mexico, it is at the imitator stage. Most of the women have had one SD before and been on a handful of dates.
The USA Is at the idiot stage. The women in the USA Have typically gone out on a double digit number of dates and had several SBs, and the influx of idiots of both sexes has been unbearable.
In the escort arena, I remember paying a few hundred bucks and getting classy beauty queens. Now it is like the escort world is filled with overweight beasts who expect the same rates. When they do not get it, men talk them down using slimy techniques by giving them fake reviews or using pimp like techniques.
That is what got me into the SB world.
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2457065]Maybe you mentioned it already, but can you say where you live?[/QUOTE]I live in the Los Angeles-Long Beach-Anaheim MSA.
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[QUOTE=BigBossMan;2457078]I live in the Los Angeles-Long Beach-Anaheim MSA.[/QUOTE]$500 for PPM may be that price point in your area. $500 was the modal price for PPM where I lived, which was SF, but given that FS was widely available at AMPS in SF and North Bay for 50-60 house feel plus 120-140 tip, I almost couldn't justify the high PPM prices of SBs in SF. Especially since I had to also fork over $$ for the hotels when meeting the SBs. Anyway, good luck and keep us posted.
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[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2457071]
Mark Cuban said in any business that you have the innovators, imitators, and then the idiots. IMO Colombia and Brazil are at the innovator stage. Most of the women I have spoken to there have not been on SB-SD dates or just a handful. In Mexico, it is at the imitator stage. Most of the women have had one SD before and been on a handful of dates.
The USA Is at the idiot stage. The women in the USA Have typically gone out on a double digit number of dates and had several SBs, and the influx of idiots of both sexes has been unbearable.[/QUOTE]LOL, well said. This is why I tried to find noobs on SA. When I was active on SA, I would search every day for gals that just joined the site on that very day and quickly zoom in for the grab. This way, I could mold them into what I was looking for. Eventually, it was too much work and I quit SA about 3. 5 years ago. Back then, SA was already starting to decline. Based on the info in this thread, it looks like it continued to decline. I am only speaking to the USA Market. I never tried SA anywhere else.
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Steve 9696: empty your inbox
I tried to send you a PM, but your inbox is full. I guess you're too popular on here. PM me when you see this and when you have time.
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SA Still Quality
[QUOTE=Midwestern;2457104]LOL, well said. This is why I tried to find noobs on SA. When I was active on SA, I would search every day for gals that just joined the site on that very day and quickly zoom in for the grab. This way, I could mold them into what I was looking for. Eventually, it was too much work and I quit SA about 3. 5 years ago. Back then, SA was already starting to decline. Based on the info in this thread, it looks like it continued to decline. I am only speaking to the USA Market. I never tried SA anywhere else.[/QUOTE]Agree the noobs are fun. While it is possible that SA used to be better, I wouldn't know as I've only used it for a year. But I would say the quality is still very good. My dates have all been quality 7's and 8's with an occasional 6 (or 5?) early on. Very good quality.
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Last Year Highlights
Just a feel for some of my highlights this past year. In roughly rank order.
Krystal - 23 Las Vegas. Ukrainian Black mix. Solid 8-8. 5. Wildcat in bed. Experienced girl but ooooh s playful and fun. First date was dinner and room time. Four hours. Second date was room time dinner room time and sleepover. 10 hours. Want to repeat. She's stayed in touch but quiet lately.
Emily - 23 NYC. Viet. Solid 8. Total newbie. Never had a high end dinner date. Never had proper DATY LOL. 4-5 hrs. Stayed in touch for months but now ghosted.
Cayla - 22-23 London. Viet. Solid 8. Met at my room but not an escort at all. Turned 23 during her visit. No lie. Drinks and chat for a couple hours. 4. 5 hrs total. Dying to repeat. And we plan to.
Tana and Lilliana - 22 and 25 London. Colombian. 9 and a 7. Duo. Dinner dancing and room time. 4 hours.
Alexa - 23 Vegas. Filipina Italian mix. 9. First date was Dinner and room time and sleepover. 12 hrs. Second date straight to room for drinks and more. 2. 5 hrs.
As you can see, from my POV there is no dearth of talent. And to those “everybody on SA is an escort” folks, try getting an 8 escort for 4 hrs for $400 all in. Or to sleepover for free. Good luck! These girls want to be there and make their own decisions not just coin operated. And the feeling I got when I heard Krystal taking off her necklace to the nightstand indicating a sleepover was worth every penny and way more.
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Brazilian SA fling in the era of Corona. Rio
Got chatting with a few 23 to 27 year old via SA last month, as I got stuck in Ipanema Rio with the lockdown. Initially found I got stuck with progress when the inevitable "its lockdown. Can't go out" responses came it. I was so fucking bored and was therefore determined to get the right girl to visit me in my airbnb, bearing in mind it couldn't be a pro, with my own fear of catching the lurgy. Anyway, latched onto a gorgeous 23rd year old Morena university girl who lived in a place called Bon Successo. Chatted to her for what felt like forever. But it was about 7 days. Eventually got her to agree a visit over to me at 5 pm, with princess pick up by Uber Black etc, just to "get to know each other" for a couple of hours.
I always wonder how you guys get these girls into bed. Like do you have a fail safe routine? Like a 1-2-3 dribble LOL. Anyway, promised her a lovely meal and just some conversation. About 1.5 hours in, suggested we open a bottle of the Brazilian version of Moet Rose, which I had pre-kept in the freezer for the last 40 minutes to ensure a great chilled drink. About 40 minutes after that we were hugging on the sofa and joking around, I started kissing the back of her neck, and hugging her and putting her on top of me for bouncing around. I find light simulated sexual movements get them horny. As the bottle emptied, I laid her flat, and started kissing her all over and quickly managed to take off her loose fitting stretchy jeans, and go for DATY. That really fired her up, and we fucked until the moon rose that evening. Brazilian SA works great!
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[QUOTE=Steve9696;2457231]Just a feel for some of my highlights this past year. In roughly rank order.
As you can see, from my POV there is no dearth of talent. And to those everybody on SA is an escort folks, try getting an 8 escort for 4 hrs for $400 all in. Or to sleepover for free. Good luck! These girls want to be there and make their own decisions not just coin operated.[/QUOTE]Yes, there is still talent to be had in the SB and escort market. Just for comparison's sake in 2008 when I first started, there was a woman whose friend compared her to a supermodel, and she was my second date. I also met a blonde on what's your price in 2011 that could stop traffic. These women were 10's across the board in terms of performance, looks, and personality.
With the covid crash, the responses I am getting in Latin America are stunning. I have a virgin, a beauty queen, a professional rugby player with no body fat, and a blonde Brazilian entrepreneur who has a Jenna Jameson body and moves like Shakira waiting on me once the travel ban is lifted.
Maybe there are women like that available in the USA but not that at the prices I like. Granted, if you are married or cannot travel, I get it, but if you can, I would forget about the USA sex prison.
Steve, I read about your story with the Brazilian 10 and loved it. It inspired me to go back and look at Sao Paulo. I haven't tried the SB market there and the girl I am chatting with there maybe the best looking yet.
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Just Don't Overcommit!
[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2457261]Yes, there is still talent to be had in the SB and escort market. Just for comparison's sake in 2008 when I first started, there was a woman whose friend compared her to a supermodel, and she was my second date. I also met a blonde on what's your price in 2011 that could stop traffic. These women were 10's across the board in terms of performance, looks, and personality.
With the covid crash, the responses I am getting in Latin America are stunning. I have a virgin, a beauty queen, a professional rugby player with no body fat, and a blonde Brazilian entrepreneur who has a Jenna Jameson body and moves like Shakira waiting on me once the travel ban is lifted.
Maybe there are women like that available in the USA but not that at the prices I like. Granted, if you are married or cannot travel, I get it, but if you can, I would forget about the USA sex prison.
Steve, I read about your story with the Brazilian 10 and loved it. It inspired me to go back and look at Sao Paulo. I haven't tried the SB market there and the girl I am chatting with there maybe the best looking yet.[/QUOTE]Glad you liked the Thifany story. Still trying to repeat that. Came close with a girl from BA but she stomped my heart instead (we did spend 21 blissful hours together so I still consider it a win).
On São Paulo I am conflicted. I too saw some nice SA girls online. But Scandallo is sooooo good. I'the hate to tie up with an SB and forego Scandallo. Maybe just a date or two but keep remaining nights free. Or get a Scandallo girl and make her your SB for the week. I bet this is possible. Karina wanted me to drive to the beach with her and her friend but I was too tired. Whatever you do, don't skip the girl buffet. Sure order an entree but don't skip the buffet! LOL.
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SA Girls are So Ironic
So I saw a hottie on SA in a city I am visiting. Looks great. Love her profile. Has a Friend with Benefits tag. Golden.
Then way at the bottom it says "I do not participate in prostitution. ".
So I think damn. But wait that's confusing. FWB but no pro. Thinking there is no harm in chatting I hit her up. I ask her her dream date. She says "doesn't matter as long as I get paid ". LOL. These girls!
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[QUOTE=Maluca;2457250]
I always wonder how you guys get these girls into bed. Like do you have a fail safe routine? Like a 1-2-3 dribble LOL. Anyway, promised her a lovely meal and just some conversation. About 1.5 hours in, suggested we open a bottle of the Brazilian version of Moet Rose, which I had pre-kept in the freezer for the last 40 minutes to ensure a great chilled drink. About 40 minutes after that we were hugging on the sofa and joking around, I started kissing the back of her neck, and hugging her and putting her on top of me for bouncing around. I find light simulated sexual movements get them horny. As the bottle emptied, I laid her flat, and started kissing her all over and quickly managed to take off her loose fitting stretchy jeans, and go for DATY. That really fired her up, and we fucked until the moon rose that evening. Brazilian SA works great![/QUOTE]Way to go Maluca! Yeah, I think the Covid is a double edged sword. There are more high quality women than ever, but the virus may be scaring some off from intimacy.
As for a fail safe routine, it is a good idea. Thing is that you make sure that they text you on the day of the meet, and if you get them an Uber, I have never had one back out.
But it was much more of a problem in the USA than in Latin America. Shit, I cannot remember a Latin American girl flaking out on me. Of all my trips, I had one time where the girl wanted to wait until the second date for sex and one time I had to wait because I was so exhausted.
In Mexico, honestly, from just a sex POV, the hookers were better values. In Colombia, outside of Santa Fe, the SA girls were better values than the hookers. In the USA, I am not counting on having sex the first time so I have a backup SB or will go to a club if I get stood up.
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[QUOTE=Maluca;2457250]
I always wonder how you guys get these girls into bed. Like do you have a fail safe routine? Like a 1-2-3 dribble LOL. Anyway, promised her a lovely meal and just some conversation. About 1.5 hours in, suggested we open a bottle of the Brazilian version of Moet Rose, which I had pre-kept in the freezer for the last 40 minutes to ensure a great chilled drink. About 40 minutes after that we were hugging on the sofa and joking around, I started kissing the back of her neck, and hugging her and putting her on top of me for bouncing around. I find light simulated sexual movements get them horny. As the bottle emptied, I laid her flat, and started kissing her all over and quickly managed to take off her loose fitting stretchy jeans, and go for DATY. That really fired her up, and we fucked until the moon rose that evening. Brazilian SA works great![/QUOTE]Way to go Maluca! Yeah, I think the Covid is a double edged sword. There are more high quality women than ever, but the virus may be scaring some off from intimacy.
As for a fail safe routine, it is a good idea. Thing is that you make sure that they text you on the day of the meet, and if you get them an Uber, I have never had one back out.
But it was much more of a problem in the USA than in Latin America. Shit, I cannot remember a Latin American girl flaking out on me. Of all my trips, I had one time where the girl wanted to wait until the second date for sex and one time I had to wait because I was so exhausted.
In Mexico, honestly, from just a sex POV, the hookers were better values. In Colombia, outside of Santa Fe, the SA girls were better values than the hookers. In the USA, I am not counting on having sex the first time so I have a backup SB or will go to a club if I get stood up.
Between this report and Steve's talking about Scandallo, I got to get back down to Brazil. Sao Paulo has more 10's than any other city on the planet.
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Dude you have it!
[QUOTE=Maluca;2457250]Got chatting with a few 23 to 27 year old via SA last month, as I got stuck in Ipanema Rio with the lockdown. Initially found I got stuck with progress when the inevitable "its lockdown. Can't go out" responses came it. I was so fucking bored and was therefore determined to get the right girl to visit me in my airbnb, bearing in mind it couldn't be a pro, with my own fear of catching the lurgy. Anyway, latched onto a gorgeous 23rd year old Morena university girl who lived in a place called Bon Successo. Chatted to her for what felt like forever. But it was about 7 days. Eventually got her to agree a visit over to me at 5 pm, with princess pick up by Uber Black etc, just to "get to know each other" for a couple of hours.
I always wonder how you guys get these girls into bed. Like do you have a fail safe routine? Like a 1-2-3 dribble LOL. Anyway, promised her a lovely meal and just some conversation. About 1.5 hours in, suggested we open a bottle of the Brazilian version of Moet Rose, which I had pre-kept in the freezer for the last 40 minutes to ensure a great chilled drink. About 40 minutes after that we were hugging on the sofa and joking around, I started kissing the back of her neck, and hugging her and putting her on top of me for bouncing around. I find light simulated sexual movements get them horny. As the bottle emptied, I laid her flat, and started kissing her all over and quickly managed to take off her loose fitting stretchy jeans, and go for DATY. That really fired her up, and we fucked until the moon rose that evening. Brazilian SA works great![/QUOTE]Dude you have the 1 2 3 down. Break out the wine. Close the gap with a kiss. Get handsy. Get some clothes off. Work tits down to pussy and DATY and there you go — Ur in! 1 2 3. Don't be shy to put her hand on your dick if you feel she needs a litttle encouragement. This works wonders too. Rinse repeat! Go get em Maluca!
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Stop wasting time and money on the women!
[QUOTE=Steve9696;2457342]Dude you have the 1 2 3 down. Break out the wine. Close the gap with a kiss. Get handsy. Get some clothes off. Work tits down to pussy and DATY and there you go Ur in! 1 2 3. Don't be shy to put her hand on your dick if you feel she needs a litttle encouragement. This works wonders too. Rinse repeat! Go get em Maluca![/QUOTE]I prefer not to waste any time or money on them. I usually tell them, "on the floor now, *****!" and they give it up for me!
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2457065]
As for the weekly allowance, as long as you guys don't do the mental accounting, with you trying to make sure you get the average price per meet down while she tries to get the average price per meet up, then $500/ week is a very good price. But if she's busy, then you may have to revert to PPM. If you guys are not in a big USA City, then the price can be $300 PPM or even less. [/QUOTE]She is already trying to get the price up. She sent me a clothes catalogue with her favorites tagged. "Could you buy this for me?" I replied "No. " This is when the adage "You don't pay them to stay, you pay them to leave." comes into play. It helps me stick to the budget and stay in the reality that this relationship is temporary.
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[QUOTE=BigBossMan;2457496]She is already trying to get the price up. She sent me a clothes catalogue with her favorites tagged. "Could you buy this for me?" I replied "No. " This is when the adage "You don't pay them to stay, you pay them to leave." comes into play. It helps me stick to the budget and stay in the reality that this relationship is temporary.[/QUOTE]LOL. I get it. I felt like in the USA I was paying almost a bribe. It was legally and emotionally cheaper to pay for sex than deal with the bullshit that followed a "real" relationship. Anytime you buy an American girl something in that catalog like say shoes, she has at least 20 fucking pairs in the closet but nothing in her bank account. Buying gifts for American women was all cost and no benefit.
I will say that gift giving does pay off in countries where the people are not as rich. I have been giving out money, typically not very much, to people in poorer countries like Brazil, Peru, and Colombia, and the gifts have been very appreciated.
One of my Colombian gals was the only one working in her family. Her parents are not working because they are in nonessential jobs. Anyway, their washing machine went bad, and my gal found a good deal on a machine for $300 and asked if I could help. Her poor mother and she were having to wash all their clothes by hand, so I gave her $250. She put in the rest, got the machine, and she was sooo happy.
If you have dealt with American women, I could understand the guys here saying "You are such a sucker", but this gal is what a SB is supposed to be. When I offer to get her an Uber, she tells me the bus is cheaper and to save my money. When I am in town, she does my laundry, cooks me meals, insists on giving me a 30 minute back rub per day, and packs my suitcase when I leave. If she does not send me a weekly sex video, I am like, "Are you okay?" And sexually, the word no is not in her vocabulary. So in my world, I pay American women to leave but Latin women to stay. LOL.
The people, even though they are way poorer than the USA, for some reason are happier than we are. It is why I miss Colombia so much. I make my living here but I spend as much time in Colombia as I can. Not being able to travel there is killing me!!
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Very interesting posts!
Some really interesting posts here. Thanks for some tips!
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Spot On
Love this modified line. LOL. So apt.
I pay American women to leave but Latin women to stay.
Hey I have noticed something lately happening enough that I'the call it a trend. I'the say it happens more with pros or near pros. But when you chat a bit and then go to text messaging, they block you on SA. You are still having a fine conversation on regular text but SA is blocked. I have some theories on why they do this. Anyone else seeing this? Only happened once last year and now like 3 times in the last week. Like they all read an article on how to manage guys on SA. LOL. Anyone else seeing this?
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[QUOTE=Steve9696;2457521]Love this modified line. LOL. So apt.
I pay American women to leave but Latin women to stay.
Best Quote Ever, goes for European women as well.
Hey I have noticed something lately happening enough that I'the call it a trend. I'the say it happens more with pros or near pros. But when you chat a bit and then go to text messaging, they block you on SA. You are still having a fine conversation on regular text but SA is blocked. I have some theories on why they do this. Anyone else seeing this? Only happened once last year and now like 3 times in the last week. Like they all read an article on how to manage guys on SA. LOL. Anyone else seeing this?[/QUOTE]I am also having the same issue, they do not want you to see there online activity.
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I also block the girls after moving to texting. What I also do is that I have a fake I'the with a different location to check the online activity of the girl. Just in case they say they are exclusive and still remain active.
[QUOTE=Steve9696;2457521]Love this modified line. LOL. So apt.
I pay American women to leave but Latin women to stay.
Hey I have noticed something lately happening enough that I'the call it a trend. I'the say it happens more with pros or near pros. But when you chat a bit and then go to text messaging, they block you on SA. You are still having a fine conversation on regular text but SA is blocked. I have some theories on why they do this. Anyone else seeing this? Only happened once last year and now like 3 times in the last week. Like they all read an article on how to manage guys on SA. LOL. Anyone else seeing this?[/QUOTE]
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[QUOTE=Steve9696;2457521]Love this modified line. LOL. So apt.
I pay American women to leave but Latin women to stay.
Hey I have noticed something lately happening enough that I'the call it a trend. I'the say it happens more with pros or near pros. But when you chat a bit and then go to text messaging, they block you on SA. You are still having a fine conversation on regular text but SA is blocked. I have some theories on why they do this. Anyone else seeing this? Only happened once last year and now like 3 times in the last week. Like they all read an article on how to manage guys on SA. LOL. Anyone else seeing this?[/QUOTE]I have seen the same from the more professional operators, including myself. One can say "Oh I have deleted / deactivated my account so I can concentrate on you. ".
I keep a separate document of the girl's name, profile name with URL, cell number and kik. Sometimes even if they have deactivated or hidden their account you can still see activity via the direct URL link.
The direct URL will have various states, depending upon the status in the database:
Will return.
The not found page showing "This member's profile can no longer be found. The member might have deactivated their account, been suspended, blocked you, or been blocked by you."
Their profile without picture but updated access times.
Their profile with pic and location but not returned in search.
Their profile with pic and new location (active elsewhere).
The 2 & 3 status I think might just be gaps in the SA security infrastructure.
As others have said, it is worth having a second account. I do not complete the profile or have pic. This means SA doesn't show this account in searches or show this profile as a viewer of the girls' profiles.
It is worth noting that girls and we are not entering into exclusive arrangements.
PP.
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Great Idea
[QUOTE=SfoCowboy;2457787]I also block the girls after moving to texting. What I also do is that I have a fake I'the with a different location to check the online activity of the girl. Just in case they say they are exclusive and still remain active.[/QUOTE]Ooh. That's a great idea since it's free to browse. I don't obsess over it but it would be nice to check up if I want.
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I just assume they are not being exclusive, even if they say they are.
[QUOTE=SfoCowboy;2457787]I also block the girls after moving to texting. What I also do is that I have a fake I'the with a different location to check the online activity of the girl. Just in case they say they are exclusive and still remain active.[/QUOTE]I've had a few SBs tell me that they quit SA for me. But a couple of months later, I see their profile back up on SA. Sometimes using a different profile. At first, it hurt, but now I just expect it. And besides, when I was active on SA, I rarely had fewer than 3 regular SBs myself, so who am I to complain?
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Agree with you but if they claim to be exclusive I'll know their bluff.
[QUOTE=Midwestern;2457872]I've had a few SBs tell me that they quit SA for me. But a couple of months later, I see their profile back up on SA. Sometimes using a different profile. At first, it hurt, but now I just expect it. And besides, when I was active on SA, I rarely had fewer than 3 regular SBs myself, so who am I to complain?[/QUOTE]
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Riddle
[QUOTE=SfoCowboy;2457989]Agree with you but if they claim to be exclusive I'll know their bluff.[/QUOTE]Q: How do you know when a pro or an SB is lying?
A: When their lips are moving. LOL.
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Don't Ask Don't Tell Don't Stalk
[QUOTE=SfoCowboy;2457989]Agree with you but if they claim to be exclusive I'll know their bluff.[/QUOTE]I know it's hard for non-SD dudes to understand but you develop feelings for someone you are not just fucking and kicking out the door. The more you spend time together the stronger the bond. And that leaves you in a position to be hurt.
I learned the hard way with Valentina and to some extent Thifany to take a don't ask don't tell don't stalk policy. It really doesn't matter if she is exclusive and perhaps naive to expect. But I don't want to KNOW if she's not. So don't ask don't tell. What you don't know won't hurt you. At least this is my approach.
And Thifany taught me the don't stalk addition. What I mean by that is don't follow them on social media. Guess what. They have a life and are having a great time without you! Of course Thif was getting married and it was hard to see how happy she was with her guy. Now I don't stalk. I got suggested by Facebook to follow Valentina and her Facebook pic is her with her studly new beau. Fuck that hurt even 9 months later. So don't ask don't tell and don't stalk is my policy. FWIW.
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[QUOTE=Steve9696;2458068]I know it's hard for non-SD dudes to understand but you develop feelings for someone you are not just fucking and kicking out the door. The more you spend time together the stronger the bond. And that leaves you in a position to be hurt.
I learned the hard way with Valentina and to some extent Thifany to take a don't ask don't tell don't stalk policy. It really doesn't matter if she is exclusive and perhaps naive to expect. But I don't want to KNOW if she's not. So don't ask don't tell. What you don't know won't hurt you. At least this is my approach.
And Thifany taught me the don't stalk addition. What I mean by that is don't follow them on social media. Guess what. They have a life and are having a great time without you! Of course Thif was getting married and it was hard to see how happy she was with her guy. Now I don't stalk. I got suggested by Facebook to follow Valentina and her Facebook pic is her with her studly new beau. Fuck that hurt even 9 months later. So don't ask don't tell and don't stalk is my policy. FWIW.[/QUOTE]Great advice, I practice the same plan. The hot girl I am with in MTY is kind of hinting she wants more. Thinking about it, but I am not sure I want a relationship, I am just having too much fun. Great advice to to follow them on social media, not hard for me since I follow no one. I only use if for work purposes.
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[QUOTE=Steve9696;2458068] It really doesn't matter if she is exclusive and perhaps naive to expect. But I don't want to KNOW if she's not.[/QUOTE]The reason it does matter for me is if I can move to a bareback sex with her. As log as I'm confident she's only bareback me each week then I am happier with that. If she wants to continue seeing other guys then she should continue to insist on protection.
It's always a risk I know and why would she tell me anyways.
PP.
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Bareback Question
[QUOTE=PilotPaul;2458146]The reason it does matter for me is if I can move to a bareback sex with her. As log as I'm confident she's only bareback me each week then I am happier with that. If she wants to continue seeing other guys then she should continue to insist on protection.
It's always a risk I know and why would she tell me anyways.
PP.[/QUOTE]Of course bareback is awesome. I don't really worry the disease part much but what about pregnancy? That would be an awful mess with an SB. Do you have a vasectomy or something that gives you confidence on this aspect?
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[QUOTE=Steve9696;2458192]Of course bareback is awesome. I don't really worry the disease part much but what about pregnancy? That would be an awful mess with an SB. Do you have a vasectomy or something that gives you confidence on this aspect?[/QUOTE]I have a vasectomy and make sure you go back to the 6 month followup and have your sperm checked for swimmers. If there are no swimmers at this point, then your doctor is paying your child support thru malpractice insurance.
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Bareback
[QUOTE=Steve9696;2458192]Of course bareback is awesome. I don't really worry the disease part much but what about pregnancy? That would be an awful mess with an SB. Do you have a vasectomy or something that gives you confidence on this aspect?[/QUOTE]One of the main reasons why I joined SA 5 or 6 years ago is because I missed barebacking so much.
I was in SF a lot, and that's a place where AMPS everywhere. I was doing CFS about 3 x per week, but eventually that got boring. First time with an SB, the bareback felt incredible. I got hooked.
But like I said, I quit SA after almost 2 years on it, because it was so time consuming. And so I resume covered action with pros.
But a year later, I was with a retired pro (she now owns a few small businesses and has a BF), and in the heat of the action, she begged that we do it raw, and we did, and it felt amazing. I've been barebacking this retired pro ever since. But she lives in another city, so we only see each other a few times a year.
About a year ago, I was seeing one of my regular incalls, and in the heat of the moment, we start raw dawging and again it was heaven. I started barebacking her on a regular basis, but how fucking stupid is that? To raw dog an active pro? But I couldn't help it, as it felt incredible. But I eventually quit seeing her, because if she is barebacking a disgusting old man like me, then she's probably barebacking a lot of other guys too.
And now, covered action just feels so fucking lame now. On most days, I would rather get a handjob instead of CFS.
This is why I started trying to hook up with with married migrant workers. I started doing this last year. I got the idea from a housekeeper. I heard her on her cell phone talking about her local boyfriend, even though she's married with kids back home. This made me realize that there must be tens of thousands (maybe hundreds of thousands) of horny migrant workers in my city, doing the minimum wage jobs such as waitress, security guard, janitor, etc. I started flirting with so many of them. Sure, most of them laugh at me, but a good portion are flattered by the attention. I've got some good stories on this, but I digress.
I didn't get the snip snip, and so I have swimmers, so I am really, really, really fucking stupid. But what can I do? I cannot live without whoring and drinking, and the whoring part is a hundred times better uncovered. Maybe the coronavirus saved my life, LOL, since I cannot engage in uncovered whoring these days.
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Maybe SBs and mistresses are the only way to go for now
With the 2nd wave hitting the USA, and even with Beijing (which may be the strictest place on earth) getting another localized outbreak over the weekend, we may not be able to monger like we used to for a couple of more years. Maybe SBs and mistresses are the only way to go for now. I might have to reopen my SA account.
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When you guys did bb with your SBs, did you normally end with CIP or withdraw the last few seconds as they do in porn? I'm curious if you regularly reminded your SBs if they're on birth ctrl? I can only assume you guys did bb when you've already done CFS with your SBs few times first. Right? Otherwise, I can't fathom any SB would allow you to do bb upon the first meet, nor would any SD be crazy enough to do bb without knowing little bit sexual histories of his SB.
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I did bareback after a few meets and after making sure of that the baby is on a pill. It takes a lot of due diligence and trust to go bareback.
[QUOTE=MoneySign;2458345]When you guys did bb with your SBs, did you normally end with CIP or withdraw the last few seconds as they do in porn? I'm curious if you regularly reminded your SBs if they're on birth ctrl? I can only assume you guys did bb when you've already done CFS with your SBs few times first. Right? Otherwise, I can't fathom any SB would allow you to do bb upon the first meet, nor would any SD be crazy enough to do bb without knowing little bit sexual histories of his SB.[/QUOTE]
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The End of My First Go Around
Holly Golightly broke two dates with me this week. She told me that $500 a week does not really change things for her. She still has to work in other words. I also think that the relationship was too close to being a prostitute for her. Since all the restaurants and entertainment venues are closed, it was just her coming over to my house and having sex. I think she was uncomfortable with the idea of it. She imagines it to be more a girlfriend-type arrangement. For me, I am not ready to take that step with her. There is a 46-year age difference. I didn't want to be seen in public places with her around my town. As Mick Jagger sang, "Don't want you out in my world, just be my backstreet girl. ".
It was the my first go at this type of thing. I overpaid but nothing that were really hurts. She was the type that I would enjoy a regular relationship. She was an attractive nerd. Given that she is turning down a reliable $2000 a month, she might have better offers. I have an issue with an alcoholic brother who I support so I have a budget limitations.
She did talk about wanting to travel. She mentioned weekend trips to various venues. She is an Instagram model with 16000 followers. Much of her Instagram is filled with pictures of her trips wearing new clothes. I might keep texting her every three days or so just to keep the irons hot and if I get an idea for a weekend trip as things open up, I might propose one to her. She was the one that brought vacationing together up in the conversation. The sex was good. Like I previously commented, it was equivalent to an hour room at FKK Sharks.
I am glad I did it. It took a bunch of time and money to get her in bed. But in the age of Covid-19, I have time and money.
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[QUOTE=MoneySign;2458345]When you guys did bb with your SBs, did you normally end with CIP or withdraw the last few seconds as they do in porn? I'm curious if you regularly reminded your SBs if they're on birth ctrl? I can only assume you guys did bb when you've already done CFS with your SBs few times first. Right? Otherwise, I can't fathom any SB would allow you to do bb upon the first meet, nor would any SD be crazy enough to do bb without knowing little bit sexual histories of his SB.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=Midwestern;2458303]I didn't get the snip snip, and so I have swimmers, so I am really, really, really fucking stupid. But what can I do? I cannot live without whoring and drinking, and the whoring part is a hundred times better uncovered. Maybe the coronavirus saved my life, LOL, since I cannot engage in uncovered whoring these days.[/QUOTE]MS, these two posts are both negative towards men. Any guy not checking a STD history is crazy, and any guy whoring around is stupid. We are trained to think that way, and when I was running around at first, I felt the same way. All I know is that getting pussy is the one thing that really made me happy, that made the anger within me be quiet for a while. Then I read the Bible or rather what Jesus is reportedly to have really said, scientific studies, and studied brain chemistry to figure out why I was the way I was. I was really conflicted. I felt like I was an asshole but in my heart, I knew I was not. What I learned was that I was normal and society was crazy.
Look at 1950's TV. The father was hard working, smart, wise. Today, with the exception of government workers who are portrayed as heroes, almost every guy on TV is some knockoff of Homer Simpson. Homer has the job but he just eats donuts and sleeps at his job while the wife, the angel, without a job is busting her ass at home. I worked damned hard to get where I was and I resent it when other people come along and imply that I did not.
Did you know in 1900 cocaine, heroin, and prostitution were all legal in the United States? What changed all that? Women got to vote.
From 1200 to 1400, the Roman Catholic Church ran brothels. The popes and preachers would make us mongers look like pikers. One in seven or 30,000 women were registered prostitutes with the church or one in every seven women in Rome. Monogamy was not born out of the bible but born out of syphilis coming from the new world to the old. Italy saw its first case in 1494, two years after Columbus. In 1550, the Anglican church put in the phrase "forsaking all others" and monogamy was THE way to have state approved sex.
Monogamy is not a big deal in other parts of the world. A man can have four wives in the Arabic world, and men are a lot more free to be men in the Far East.
Then there is brain chemistry. There was this little rat called the prairie vole. Scientists believed it was one of the only monogamous mammals there was. What scientists found is that the chemical reward for these voles was greater with their wives than with a new partner. Think about that for a second. If God is all powerful, why didn't he do that with us? Why are we constantly searching for new pussy and are chemically rewarded for dong so? Because God wants us too!! And it is not just us. Every male species gets tired of old pussy. It turns out there are no monogamous mammals!
So after all this money is spent on what makes this little rat monogamous, scientists did DNA testing on the offspring. It turns out that 25% of the baby rats were illegitimate. Whoops!
When scientists allowed monkeys to use coins for fruit, the monkeys soon learned to engage in prostitution. In fact, and this is the part that cracked me up, scientists demonized and punished monkeys for that behavior.
So you are one of society's planners and you have to get approval from the women, who make up 53% of the votes, right? What do you do? You demonize men right? You would be crucified if you told them men fucking as many and as much new pussy as possible is normal. So you elevate STDs for fear right? To scare them to do what you want? What makes a disease sexual in nature versus another disease? Most of that is politics. I swear I got strep throat from kissing a girl so why are warts a STD but strep is not? Because children get strep throat right? STDs are man made distinctions.
You won't hear about the fact that people who have sex live longer than those who do not. You will not hear that when you expose yourself to another person you are exposing yourself to new antigens and making your immune system smarter. That is what they used to do with measles. Prior to the measles vaccine, Children were told to expose themselves to measles earlier in life so they didn't get later when it was more dangerous.
Meanwhile, condoms, which never were meant for STDs but to prevent pregnancy, were elevated into having safe sex. You do not hear the dangers of latex allergies and condom use though do you? Condom use was said to be safe sex. Is it really if you look at the evidence?
And while it is "well known" that condoms prevent STDs, when you get specific about diseases and percentages, that conventional wisdom about condoms and STDs falls apart. There were studies done on the effectiveness on condoms and STDs. In fact, there was one huge one that changed my mind about condom use, but it was buried because it did not fit the political narrative. So what diseases do condoms prevent and what is the evidence that they do? I am not going to argue about it or try to convince you. Look at up yourself. Maybe I am wrong.
In fact, the whole STD thing gives government power. If someone infects you, then the government can step in. If we accept responsibility for the infection and take care of it on our own, then we do not need the government right?
So what really happened when women got power? It was supposed to be about female empowerment, but it really was not. It was about giving women the ability to deflect responsibility.
It kind of cracks me up about the testing part. Why would you test for HIV and not strep throat when you do testing on women? You know a ton of people who have had strep throat but you don't know anyone who got HIV from heterosexual sex do you?
I am sorry but I do not accept that I am an irresponsible, crazy asshole. I lived with that shame for a long time, and I am done with it.
What you are really saying MS is that you would like to engage in bareback sex but are afraid to do so. I get it. If you educate yourself and get to the bottom of things yourself, you probably won't be. Maybe you feel guilt with seeing working girls. I don't. It is normal. This society is the one that is fucked up.
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Exclusive email account?
Hi guys. I've been thinking about trying out SA for a few years now but was mongering on trips to Cuba and Columbia and day trips to Tijuana and the Hong Kong Club (I live very close to Mexico). I am going to register and take a look at the girls now that those activities have been shut down. I have read most of this forum. How important is it to set up a separate email account? I am single and self employed so not concerned with keeping my ID secret. Also in light of the covid, is this a good or bad time for finding SB's. Thanks in advance for any info.
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How badly do you need it? Better to bang known chics after making sure that they are safe. Means that you should have known them and had a clear sense of their health.
[QUOTE=AmorPorFavor;2458457]Hi guys. I've been thinking about trying out SA for a few years now but was mongering on trips to Cuba and Columbia and day trips to Tijuana and the Hong Kong Club (I live very close to Mexico). I am going to register and take a look at the girls now that those activities have been shut down. I have read most of this forum. How important is it to set up a separate email account? I am single and self employed so not concerned with keeping my ID secret. Also in light of the covid, is this a good or bad time for finding SB's. Thanks in advance for any info.[/QUOTE]
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[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2458455]MS, t
So you are one of society's planners and you have to get approval from the women, who make up 53% of the votes, right? What do you do? You demonize men right? You would be crucified if you told them men fucking as many and as much new pussy as possible is normal. So you elevate STDs for fear right? To scare them to do what you want? What makes a disease sexual in nature versus another disease? Most of that is politics. I swear I got strep throat from kissing a girl so why are warts a STD but strep is not? Because children get strep throat right? STDs are man made distinctions.
You won't hear about the fact that people who have sex live longer than those who do not. You will not hear that when you expose yourself to another person you are exposing yourself to new antigens and making your immune system smarter. That is what they used to do with measles. Prior to the measles vaccine, Children were told to expose themselves to measles earlier in life so they didn't get later when it was more dangerous.
Meanwhile, condoms, which never were meant for STDs but to prevent pregnancy, were elevated into having safe sex. You do not hear the dangers of latex allergies and condom use though do you? Condom use was said to be safe sex. Is it really if you look at the evidence?
And while it is "well known" that condoms prevent STDs, when you get specific about diseases and percentages, that conventional wisdom about condoms and STDs falls apart. There were studies done on the effectiveness on condoms and STDs. In fact, there was one huge one that changed my mind about condom use, but it was buried because it did not fit the political narrative. So what diseases do condoms prevent and what is the evidence that they do? I am not going to argue about it or try to convince you. Look at up yourself. Maybe I am wrong..[/QUOTE]The feminazi is a bit of a myth that is blamed for everything. Ever wonder why Trump still got all those women votes in 2016 even with his reputation with women? While some women are against prostitution, the ones with good looks knows what they have. They understand the perks that come when you are attractive. These include promotions and preferential treatment by successful men. So, while they are against prostitution on the outside, they do not really oppose it because it benefits them. Sugar babies knows this concept. They just pretend they are not doing for the money.
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[QUOTE=BigBossMan;2458432]Holly Golightly broke two dates with me this week. She told me that $500 a week does not really change things for her. She still has to work in other words. I also think that the relationship was too close to being a prostitute for her. Since all the restaurants and entertainment venues are closed, it was just her coming over to my house and having sex. I think she was uncomfortable with the idea of it. She imagines it to be more a girlfriend-type arrangement. For me, I am not ready to take that step with her. There is a 46-year age difference. I didn't want to be seen in public places with her around my town. As Mick Jagger sang, "Don't want you out in my world, just be my backstreet girl. ".
It was the my first go at this type of thing. I overpaid but nothing that were really hurts. She was the type that I would enjoy a regular relationship. She was an attractive nerd. Given that she is turning down a reliable $2000 a month, she might have better offers. I have an issue with an alcoholic brother who I support so I have a budget limitations.
She did talk about wanting to travel. She mentioned weekend trips to various venues. She is an Instagram model with 16000 followers. Much of her Instagram is filled with pictures of her trips wearing new clothes. I might keep texting her every three days or so just to keep the irons hot and if I get an idea for a weekend trip as things open up, I might propose one to her. She was the one that brought vacationing together up in the conversation. The sex was good. Like I previously commented, it was equivalent to an hour room at FKK Sharks.
I am glad I did it. It took a bunch of time and money to get her in bed. But in the age of Covid-19, I have time and money.[/QUOTE]You are reading the tea leaves wrong. She knows exactly what she is geting into. With 16000 followers, you are not the only person she is seeking. You need to up your game. Instead of 2000 a month, try 3000-3500. Unfortunately, these prima donnas are high maintenance. She is what you call a well-kept woman.
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Definitely Stay Anonymous
[QUOTE=AmorPorFavor;2458457]Hi guys. I've been thinking about trying out SA for a few years now but was mongering on trips to Cuba and Columbia and day trips to Tijuana and the Hong Kong Club (I live very close to Mexico). I am going to register and take a look at the girls now that those activities have been shut down. I have read most of this forum. How important is it to set up a separate email account? I am single and self employed so not concerned with keeping my ID secret. Also in light of the covid, is this a good or bad time for finding SB's. Thanks in advance for any info.[/QUOTE]Truly better to try to stay anonymous. Sure she's fine now. But what if your SB turns south and stalks you or tries to make difficulty? No sense inviting trouble. Girls are used to fake names and contacts. They do the same. So yes set up a "girls" account and pick a name you will go by consistently.
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2458303]
This is why I started trying to hook up with with married migrant workers. I started doing this last year. I got the idea from a housekeeper. I heard her on her cell phone talking about her local boyfriend, even though she's married with kids back home. This made me realize that there must be tens of thousands (maybe hundreds of thousands) of horny migrant workers in my city, doing the minimum wage jobs such as waitress, security guard, janitor, etc. I started flirting with so many of them. Sure, most of them laugh at me, but a good portion are flattered by the attention. I've got some good stories on this, but I digress.
[/QUOTE]Would you share some of the stories? I'm curious to see how this has been working for you.
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I won't get fooled again. Sure I won't.
[QUOTE=BigBossMan;2458432]Holly Golightly broke two dates with me this week. She told me that $500 a week does not really change things for her. She still has to work in other words. I also think that the relationship was too close to being a prostitute for her. Since all the restaurants and entertainment venues are closed, it was just her coming over to my house and having sex. I think she was uncomfortable with the idea of it. She imagines it to be more a girlfriend-type arrangement. For me, I am not ready to take that step with her. There is a 46-year age difference. I didn't want to be seen in public places with her around my town. As Mick Jagger sang, "Don't want you out in my world, just be my backstreet girl. ".
It was the my first go at this type of thing. I overpaid but nothing that were really hurts. She was the type that I would enjoy a regular relationship. She was an attractive nerd. Given that she is turning down a reliable $2000 a month, she might have better offers. I have an issue with an alcoholic brother who I support so I have a budget limitations.
She did talk about wanting to travel. She mentioned weekend trips to various venues. She is an Instagram model with 16000 followers. Much of her Instagram is filled with pictures of her trips wearing new clothes. I might keep texting her every three days or so just to keep the irons hot and if I get an idea for a weekend trip as things open up, I might propose one to her. She was the one that brought vacationing together up in the conversation. The sex was good. Like I previously commented, it was equivalent to an hour room at FKK Sharks.
I am glad I did it. It took a bunch of time and money to get her in bed. But in the age of Covid-19, I have time and money.[/QUOTE]After being stood twice, she calls me this morning saying she can be there in a 30 minutes. I have no plans. Sundays are like every other day under Covid-19. I say okay. So I guess the $500 is enticing enough for her. She asked me if it was okay to hang out at my house while she does her homework. I am thinking it might be okay. One girl during Covid-19 is enough risk. This one is not perfect but she is fun enough. I am willing to keep it going.
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Excellent screed
[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2458455] I felt like I was an asshole but in my heart, I knew I was not. What I learned was that I was normal and society was crazy.
What you are really saying MS is that you would like to engage in bareback sex but are afraid to do so. I get it. If you educate yourself and get to the bottom of things yourself, you probably won't be. Maybe you feel guilt with seeing working girls. I don't. It is normal. This society is the one that is fucked up.[/QUOTE]This is one of the best written screeds on this forum that I've ever read. I usually skim long posts, but I read every single word of yours. So, you bareback pros all the time? Because of you, I may go back to barebacking that pro that I used to bareback regularly.
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[QUOTE=AmorPorFavor;2458457]Hi guys. I've been thinking about trying out SA for a few years now but was mongering on trips to Cuba and Columbia and day trips to Tijuana and the Hong Kong Club (I live very close to Mexico). I am going to register and take a look at the girls now that those activities have been shut down. I have read most of this forum. How important is it to set up a separate email account? I am single and self employed so not concerned with keeping my ID secret.[/QUOTE]For a site like SA, you should definitely use an anonymous email account. Think about the Ashley Madison fiasco. Some hacker uncovered tens of thousands (or was it milllions?) of registered users' email accounts, and threatened to make them all public. Remember that?
Recently, there's this scam: [URL]https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/blog/2020/04/scam-emails-demand-bitcoin-threaten-blackmail[/URL].
I was ALSO a target of the above scam. I got an email to my anonymous email account saying that my password is XYZ (which was correct!) and they said they know that I am a registered user of a sex site. Unless I gave them bitcoins, they were going to send an email to all of my contacts to let them know about my indiscretions.
So, any time you do something that you don't want people to know about, use an anonymous email and a unique password for it.
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[QUOTE=SonicBoom1;2458503]Would you share some of the stories? I'm curious to see how this has been working for you.[/QUOTE]I am an expat in Shanghai. China only has a few first tier cities, such as Shanghai and Beijing. Over a hundred million Chinese people migrate from their shitty rural hometowns to work in Shanghai or Beijing or Shenzhen or Guangzhou. Most married couples work separately, especially given the fact that one of them might have a decent job at home or is needed at home.
A few years ago, I overheard my house keeper (she's from another town) telling her friend on the phone that she had a local boyfriend, even though she was married with a husband and kids back home. This made me realize that many of these migrant workers must be hungry for attention and affection. So, I started hitting on them, such as waitresses, department store attendants, janitors, security guards, etc. They are generally quite receptive! They are even surprised that a foreigner would be interested in them. I guess it's not that surprising, as they probably have really low self esteem.
I've had a couple of affairs with them, and it's free as long as you have a place to meet. These gals aren't lookers of course. And we are talking about gals in their 30's and 40's. But they are horny as hell. I am currently working on a few right now. One already says she likes me. She has a husband and 3 kids back home. She actually gave me a peck on the cheek the last time I saw her. Another says she likes me too, but she is a little freaked out because she's never had a foreigner like her before.
My MO usually goes like this. There are women that I see almost every day, such as the security guards at the subway station, or the store assistant that works at the fruit store, or the waitress of the restaurant that I eat at a few times per week. I just smile at them. Or exchange an extended greeting. In China, we text each other using WeChat. Once I am familiar with someone, I will just ask for their WeChat. It's no big deal to anyone. And so, I will start texting them. I can't speak Chinese for shit, but WeChat has a translation function. Anyway, I just text bland shit, like "where are you from?" or "it is so hot today" and etc. Then, after a few weeks of this, I will just text them to say that I like them. They are always astonished. And then I start flirting with them.
Here's a story from last year. I was texting with someone for a few months. And then I told her that I liked her. She just laughed it off. But I kept telling her that I liked her. The next time I saw her, we chatted, and then I said I had to run, but before I did, I gave her a quick friendly hug. That night, I told her again that I liked her. And to my surprise, she said she liked me too. The next time I saw her, we kissed when no one was looking. That night, I said I liked her. She again said she liked me too. I said "what should we do?" She replied, "maybe meet a a hotel?" BAM!! Just like that. I couldn't believe it. Anyway, over the course of the next 6 months, we met up for about once per week. The sex was so passionate. Basically, I would just stick it in, and we would make out for a couple of hours. She's in her mid-40's, been married for OVER 20 years, and didn't have sex in 6 years. Right now, she's stuck in her hometown, but I am hoping she will return this summer.
Once I discovered this source of sex, I started collecting WeChats from migrant workers like crazy. I basically repeat what I did above. I am now even more brazen sometimes. I just text them and ask if we can meet for sex. It's amazing how often the women are interested. I would say 1 out 4 are interested. Like I said above, they are bored and lonely and hungry for attention and affection, and they are super flattered by my interest, especially because a lot of them probably have low self esteem. They probably get yelled at every day by their bosses. I bet my MO would work in a lot of places that have migrant workers. I know that in Singapore, the Filipino maids are often looking for hookups, just to give another example city.
My only problem right now is that I have a few women that are in play, but I don't have a place to meet them for the rendezvous, especially given how strict the hotels and apartment complexes are, due to COVID.
Anyway, hope this helps. And to everyone else, sorry to go off topic.
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2458551]I am an expat in Shanghai. China only has a few first tier cities, such as Shanghai and Beijing. Over a hundred million Chinese people migrate from their shitty rural hometowns to work in Shanghai or Beijing or Shenzhen or Guangzhou. Most married couples work separately, especially given the fact that one of them might have a decent job at home or is needed at home.[/QUOTE]This is similar with filipna foreign workers. I us ea similar strategy but I like ot keep distance from my regular haunts. Even here in my home town I will not flirt with waitresses on my regular haunts and instead find new haunts based on this objective.
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That's hot. When you originally wrote "migrant worker", I thought you were talking about Mexicans in the United States! That changes the context a lot! So are you worried you might get one of these milfs pregnant though? Or are you snipped? Feel free to PM if you got more details. I want to retire in Asia and do this and more.
[QUOTE=Midwestern;2458551]I am an expat in Shanghai. China only has a few first tier cities, such as Shanghai and Beijing. Over a hundred million Chinese people migrate from their shitty rural hometowns to work in Shanghai or Beijing or Shenzhen or Guangzhou. Most married couples work separately, especially given the fact that one of them might have a decent job at home or is needed at home.
A few years ago, I overheard my house keeper (she's from another town) telling her friend on the phone that she had a local boyfriend, even though she was married with a husband and kids back home. This made me realize that many of these migrant workers must be hungry for attention and affection. So, I started hitting on them, such as waitresses, department store attendants, janitors, security guards, etc. They are generally quite receptive! They are even surprised that a foreigner would be interested in them. I guess it's not that surprising, as they probably have really low self esteem.
I've had a couple of affairs with them, and it's free as long as you have a place to meet. These gals aren't lookers of course. And we are talking about gals in their 30's and 40's. But they are horny as hell. I am currently working on a few right now. One already says she likes me. She has a husband and 3 kids back home. She actually gave me a peck on the cheek the last time I saw her. Another says she likes me too, but she is a little freaked out because she's never had a foreigner like her before.
My MO usually goes like this. There are women that I see almost every day, such as the security guards at the subway station, or the store assistant that works at the fruit store, or the waitress of the restaurant that I eat at a few times per week. I just smile at them. Or exchange an extended greeting. In China, we text each other using WeChat. Once I am familiar with someone, I will just ask for their WeChat. It's no big deal to anyone. And so, I will start texting them. I can't speak Chinese for shit, but WeChat has a translation function. Anyway, I just text bland shit, like "where are you from?" or "it is so hot today" and etc. Then, after a few weeks of this, I will just text them to say that I like them. They are always astonished. And then I start flirting with them.
Here's a story from last year. I was texting with someone for a few months. And then I told her that I liked her. She just laughed it off. But I kept telling her that I liked her. The next time I saw her, we chatted, and then I said I had to run, but before I did, I gave her a quick friendly hug. That night, I told her again that I liked her. And to my surprise, she said she liked me too. The next time I saw her, we kissed when no one was looking. That night, I said I liked her. She again said she liked me too. I said "what should we do?" She replied, "maybe meet a a hotel?" BAM!! Just like that. I couldn't believe it. Anyway, over the course of the next 6 months, we met up for about once per week. The sex was so passionate. Basically, I would just stick it in, and we would make out for a couple of hours. She's in her mid-40's, been married for OVER 20 years, and didn't have sex in 6 years. Right now, she's stuck in her hometown, but I am hoping she will return this summer.
Once I discovered this source of sex, I started collecting WeChats from migrant workers like crazy. I basically repeat what I did above. I am now even more brazen sometimes. I just text them and ask if we can meet for sex. It's amazing how often the women are interested. I would say 1 out 4 are interested. Like I said above, they are bored and lonely and hungry for attention and affection, and they are super flattered by my interest, especially because a lot of them probably have low self esteem. They probably get yelled at every day by their bosses. I bet my MO would work in a lot of places that have migrant workers. I know that in Singapore, the Filipino maids are often looking for hookups, just to give another example city.
My only problem right now is that I have a few women that are in play, but I don't have a place to meet them for the rendezvous, especially given how strict the hotels and apartment complexes are, due to COVID.
Anyway, hope this helps. And to everyone else, sorry to go off topic.[/QUOTE]
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[QUOTE=Wupoer;2458797]So are you worried you might get one of these milfs pregnant though? Or are you snipped?.[/QUOTE]I'm mid 50's, so I'm either too old to cum easily or I have it under control. I don't know which it is. But to make sure I don't cum accidentally, I'll usually drink a half a can of beer before I do the deed. The alcohol is enough to numb my dick. I use Viagra to make sure it's hard. With this combo, I almost never cum, which is fine with me. I prefer fucking, not cumming.
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2458551]I am an expat in Shanghai. China only has a few first tier cities, such as Shanghai and Beijing. Over a hundred million Chinese people migrate from their shitty rural hometowns to work in Shanghai or Beijing or Shenzhen or Guangzhou. Most married couples work separately, especially given the fact that one of them might have a decent job at home or is needed at home.
A few years ago, I overheard my house keeper (she's from another town) telling her friend on the phone that she had a local boyfriend, even though she was married with a husband and kids back home. This made me realize that many of these migrant workers must be hungry for attention and affection. So, I started hitting on them, such as waitresses, department store attendants, janitors, security guards, etc. They are generally quite receptive! They are even surprised that a foreigner would be interested in them. I guess it's not that surprising, as they probably have really low self esteem.
I've had a couple of affairs with them, and it's free as long as you have a place to meet. These gals aren't lookers of course. And we are talking about gals in their 30's and 40's. But they are horny as hell. I am currently working on a few right now. One already says she likes me. She has a husband and 3 kids back home. She actually gave me a peck on the cheek the last time I saw her. Another says she likes me too, but she is a little freaked out because she's never had a foreigner like her before..[/QUOTE]Great post, MW! Well done, mate. No, you are much on topic. Thank you, enjoyed reading it.
How do you converse w / these women, given you speak no Mandarin as you said and most likely they don't speak English, not being in the higher strata and all? Text translate?
Why are more of your conquests in the MILF type? Is it because the migrant labor are more in the MILF category? Did you try to hit upon hotter chicks in the barristas, higher end restaurants and other such places?
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2458551]
A few years ago, I overheard my house keeper (she's from another town) telling her friend on the phone that she had a local boyfriend, even though she was married with a husband and kids back home. This made me realize that many of these migrant workers must be hungry for attention and affection. So, I started hitting on them, such as waitresses, department store attendants, janitors, security guards, etc. They are generally quite receptive! They are even surprised that a foreigner would be interested in them. I guess it's not that surprising, as they probably have really low self esteem.
.[/QUOTE]Wow, that is an amazing tactic, and some serious out-of-box thinking. I'm impressed!
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Sugar Baby Season
I think Sugar Baby season is in full bloom now with college / university exams all done. I'm getting Favorited 3 x more often now than before. Big increase starting last week.
One SB messaged me, "If I send you nudes will you send me money?
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[QUOTE=Pessimist;2458968]
How do you converse w / these women, given you speak no Mandarin as you said and most likely they don't speak English, not being in the higher strata and all? Text translate?
Why are more of your conquests in the MILF type? Is it because the migrant labor are more in the MILF category? Did you try to hit upon hotter chicks in the barristas, higher end restaurants and other such places?[/QUOTE]I took a one month crash course in Mandarin, so I have a vocabulary of about 500 highly-used words. I can mix and match them well enough to make small talk. That's it, but it's enough. My conversations with them are never more than a few sentences, and it mostly just involves a transaction for something, like groceries, or just to exchange a friendly Hello, etc. After seeing them regularly for about a few weeks, I can tell who sort of likes me, because they will smile when they see me. So, I would eventually just ask for their WeChat. It's not the same thing as asking for a phone number. In China, people exchange WeChats all the time. So, most of the time, they will think nothing of it. But some ask why I want their WeChat, and I simply reply that I like them. Once I have their WeChat, we can have a deeper convo, because WeChat has text translate, but I've never had a deep convo with any of them. It's all bland shit, like, "how are you?" or "did you eat lunch?" or some basic shit like that. After a week of chatting, I move it to flirting. And then after a week of flirting, and I ramp up my game and see where it goes from there.
I should say that most of my successes have been with milfs, but they are not my targets per se. I hit on almost everyone. However, the younger ones are more coy. I mentioned that I am working on a couple of prospects right now, but now that I think of it, I am actually working on at least a half dozen prospects. For example, there's a young very hot girl that works at a convenience store. I get coffee there. I have no idea what she says to me, and so it makes her giggle. I got her WeChat, under the guise that it would help with our future transactions. But I started flirting with her on WeChat. After a couple of weeks, I just asked her if we could meet for sex. She said, "let's get to know each other first. " That was about 2 weeks ago. Last night, I asked her again, and she said, "haha" and then she said, "we can, but let's get to know each other first. " I have no idea how we can know each other first. Does she mean to date? But with older women, they are just shocked that I would be interested in them. They probably have not gotten a man's attention in years. So, they are much easier to seal the deal with. Like I mentioned before, I have a couple a milfs already yqueued up, ready to meet for sex, but given the strictness at hotels these days, I am nervous about moving forward with it for now. But in general, I always find that average looking milfs are so horny in the sack anyway, so I am happy if all I can get are milfs.
At SonicBoom:
I did not invent this MO. I said that I discovered it, but that was just for myself. A lot of mongers have done this in China. When I first moved to China, there was a monger in the Beijing forum that always bragged about banging women for free, and these women were almost all minimum wage employees from other cities, like the gals that I am hitting on. I just didn't realize how easy it was until recently.
I am sure this can be done in other cities that have migrant workers. My friend in Singapore slept with a lot of Filipina maids during their days off. They were not pretty, and they were old. But he said they were horny and free. It is only now that I understand the wisdom of his ways, LOL.
But like I said before, most of the time, when I tell these girls that I like them or want to have sex with them, it goes nowhere. Like I said before, only about 1 out of 4 give me a positive reaction to my flirting, but I consider that a good percentage. I also have become narrower in my targeting. For example, I now realize that I cannot hit on girls that are close by. For example, I hit on a girl that works at my favorite fruit store. She didn't take to it well. And now I can't go there because it's a little awkward, because everyone there gives me the cold shoulder, probably because she told them. Unfortunately, a MILF that works at the front desk of my apartment complex is always giving me a big smile and fuck me eyes. She's thin and tall, and pretty attractive. Damn, I wish I can get with her, but given that she works in my building, that's too close. Oh well.
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2459054]I took a one month crash course in Mandarin, so I have a vocabulary of about 500 highly-used words. I can mix and match them well enough to make small talk. That's it, but it's enough. My conversations with them are never more than a few sentences, and it mostly just involves a transaction for something, like groceries, or just to exchange a friendly Hello, etc. After seeing them regularly for about a few weeks, I can tell who sort of likes me, because they will smile when they see me. So, I would eventually just ask for their WeChat. It's not the same thing as asking for a phone number. In China, people exchange WeChats all the time. So, most of the time, they will think nothing of it. But some ask why I want their WeChat, and I simply reply that I like them. Once I have their WeChat, we can have a deeper convo, because WeChat has text translate, but I've never had a deep convo with any of them. It's all bland shit, like, "how are you?" or "did you eat lunch?" or some basic shit like that. After a week of chatting, I move it to flirting. And then after a week of flirting, and I ramp up my game and see where it goes from there..[/QUOTE]Wow, so cool. Good for you, my friend. Best of luck with that young hot chick! I'm sure it will work out.
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[QUOTE=Wupoer;2458996]
One SB messaged me, "If I send you nudes will you send me money?[/QUOTE]I hope that you will reply, "I can see nudes for free on the internet. " Does she know what the purpose of SA is? There are other sites for what she wants to do. Happy hunting, bro. Looking forward to reading your juicy reports of your successes.
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I recently joined SA and its been very entertaining in these times. I need to spend more time setting up my profile, but so far it has provided some good prospects.
I wonder what is an optimal value to use for net worth and income? I would think too low and you will get ignored by some. Too high, and you'll be expected to pay above market value.
I was chatting with a cute college girl tonight, but she claims to be away for the summer not to return until September, and wants to be paid to continue online chatting, LOL. I am not sure who would take her up on this offer.
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2459054]I took a one month crash course in Mandarin, so I have a vocabulary of about 500 highly-used words. I can mix and match them well enough to make small talk. That's it, but it's enough. My conversations with them are never more than a few sentences, and it mostly just involves a transaction for something, like groceries, or just to exchange a friendly Hello, etc. After seeing them regularly for about a few weeks, I can tell who sort of likes me, because they will smile when they see me. So, I would eventually just ask for their WeChat. It's not the same thing as asking for a phone number. In China, people exchange WeChats all the time. So, most of the time, they will think nothing of it. But some ask why I want their WeChat, and I simply reply that I like them. Once I have their WeChat, we can have a deeper convo, because WeChat has text translate, but I've never had a deep convo with any of them. It's all bland shit, like, "how are you?" or "did you eat lunch?" or some basic shit like that. After a week of chatting, I move it to flirting. And then after a week of flirting, and I ramp up my game and see where it goes from there..[/QUOTE]Propose an event or the equivalent of a date. Ask her where she wants to eat and you pay. Suggest some place nice and discreet. She may not want to be seen with you in public or want her family and friends to know. Make up an excuse such as helping you learn Mandarin. Pretend to be helpless. Her instinct will be to help you. Gain her trust and you get what you want. It may take a little time.
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2459057]I hope that you will reply, "I can see nudes for free on the internet. " Does she know what the purpose of SA is? There are other sites for what she wants to do. Happy hunting, bro. Looking forward to reading your juicy reports of your successes.[/QUOTE]Hehe, that could've been a funny conversation! But her body didn't appear to be something I was even interested in seeing! LOL. Because I'm usually jacking off to bikini or fashion models and then fucking slender petite k-girls weekly.
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[QUOTE=IntlPlayboy;2459127]
I wonder what is an optimal value to use for net worth and income? I would think too low and you will get ignored by some. Too high, and you'll be expected to pay above market value.
[/QUOTE]You are maybe putting too much thought into the value of that part of you profile. A) It's not a fact check. B) most people lie on that report anyway. C) your price negotiations are done on kik or another chat app, well past the initial meeting on SA.
In my experience no one pays attention to it.
[QUOTE=IntlPlayboy;2459127]
I was chatting with a cute college girl tonight, but she claims to be away for the summer not to return until September, and wants to be paid to continue online chatting, LOL. I am not sure who would take her up on this offer.[/QUOTE]I would not take her up on the offer. That's great that she is cute and nice but no honey no money. There are thousands of cute girls you can chat for free.
Just my thoughts and experience.
PP.
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[QUOTE=PilotPaul;2459334]You are maybe putting too much thought into the value of that part of you profile. A) It's not a fact check. B) most people lie on that report anyway. C) your price negotiations are done on kik or another chat app, well past the initial meeting on SA.
In my experience no one pays attention to it.
Just my thoughts and experience.
PP.[/QUOTE]Good points, PP. But some girls might screen on income and net worth. Also, I had two occasions where I low balled the gal, and she said "you make $xxxx a year, why can't you give me more?" So maybe I inflated my income or worth too much and she felt I was being super cheap. But again, PP is right. FWIW, I put $400,000 as my annual income and 5 million as my net worth. This puts me in the low end of the 1%. I didn't want SBs to think I was super rich. I would probably use these numbers again if I rejoined SA.
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[QUOTE=Akibono;2459138]Propose an event or the equivalent of a date. Ask her where she wants to eat and you pay. Suggest some place nice and discreet. She may not want to be seen with you in public or want her family and friends to know. Make up an excuse such as helping you learn Mandarin. Pretend to be helpless. Her instinct will be to help you. Gain her trust and you get what you want. It may take a little time.[/QUOTE]Thanks for the helpful suggestions, but I'm not going to lift a finger. I play a numbers game. I actually learned this on SA. You young guys probably do this on Tinder. I just try to get with hundreds of gals, and see with few gals give me the easiest in, and I just proceed with those. That's all. On SA, I used to contact dozens per day and then just wait, and then zero in on the one that gives me the most positive response with the least hassle. Same thing with the 141 scene in HK. Just go with the one that's ready to go, LOL.
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2459350] I had two occasions where I low balled the gal, and she said "you make $xxxx a year, why can't you give me more?" So maybe I inflated my income or worth too much and she felt I was being super cheap. But again, PP is right. FWIW, I put $400,000 as my annual income and 5 million as my net worth. [/QUOTE]I think that is a lot for them. I change it to very low numbers and I don't think it matters for my purpose. Only Premium account can search by income or net worth. I registered to find sugar mommy to see what the sugar baby see. And reported about my observation not long ago.
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[QUOTE=PilotPaul;2459334]You are maybe putting too much thought into the value of that part of you profile. A) It's not a fact check. B) most people lie on that report anyway. C) your price negotiations are done on kik or another chat app, well past the initial meeting on SA.
In my experience no one pays attention to it.[/QUOTE]I wouldn't tell my actual net worth to anyone, let alone advertise it on a website. Its substantial, but that doesn't mean I want to overpay for anything. But I also don't want to underreport too much and possibly get ignored by what I am looking for.
So far I have arranged a couple meets with what seem to be semi-pro's. Those conversations move quickly to text and the ppm number is all they seem to care about.
But ideally what I want to find is a cute young wholesome type college girl for an ongoing relationship, and I think the profile info would come into play more in that search.
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[QUOTE=Nounce;2459361]I think that is a lot for them. I change it to very low numbers and I don't think it matters for my purpose. Only Premium account can search by income or net worth. I registered to find sugar mommy to see what the sugar baby see. And reported about my observation not long ago.[/QUOTE]At the end of the day the gal can only get what she can get relative to the market price for pussy. If the prostitute price for pussy is $xxx then it's up to the SB to provide the value add to justify her value. The reason we have the net worth is because we don't overpay!
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[QUOTE=Nounce;2459361]I think that is a lot for them. I change it to very low numbers and I don't think it matters for my purpose. Only Premium account can search by income or net worth. I registered to find sugar mommy to see what the sugar baby see. And reported about my observation not long ago.[/QUOTE]I personally don't worry much about income numbers. There are probably some girls that look at it, but I haven't come across anyone that has mentioned it. I keep my numbers kinda low as well, to show that you have ample disposable income (850 worth /250 year). In the end, I've seen that they make their judgement more by the conversation in Seeking / whatsapp and the frequency of your contact. From there, if they decide to meet in person, the final judgement is more than likely (with a nonpro) your personality and level of awkwardness (it should be low LOL), or their level of desperation or rather need for the agreed upon amount. All dynamic factors, not based on static values in SA.
With premium profiles, I stay away. Every SB that I have banged has had a standard profile. Whenever I have chatted with premiums, they seem to be more professional, which turns me off.
02.
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Any other recommendations
Mongers,
I know this thread is based on Seeking, but are there any other SB sites out there that you guys have had success with?
I've seen Seeking is usually at the top, but I'm curious if there are other sites out there that one should consider.
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[QUOTE=LshRoomer;2459528]
With premium profiles, I stay away. Every SB that I have banged has had a standard profile. Whenever I have chatted with premiums, they seem to be more professional, which turns me off.
[/QUOTE]I guess you don't know Premium profile is free for college student with a college email address. If you see someone is also college verified then she most likely is a student.
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[QUOTE=Nounce;2459556]I guess you don't know Premium profile is free for college student with a college email address. If you see someone is also college verified then she most likely is a student.[/QUOTE]See, that's why I love this forum and the info exchange.
Not ashamed to admit it sir. I did not know that! This may require a change in logic (obv trust but verify). Before now my thinking was, premium = stay away. Hell I'd be happy to change it to, if (premium + college verified), then she is fair game AND she might be your next balls deep experience. Hahaha.
I appreciate the good info Nounce.
02.
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[QUOTE=LshRoomer;2459558]
I appreciate the good info Nounce.
[/QUOTE]I am glad that it is helpful. That is why we post. Another thing I notice is that sugar baby won't know you read the message until after she has read the message. I plan to get one sugar baby to confirm it.
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[QUOTE=LshRoomer;2459529]
I've seen Seeking is usually at the top, but I'm curious if there are other sites out there that one should consider.[/QUOTE]I tried another site, now can't remember the name. Had lots of profiles which I soon learned were fakes or bots. Wasted my money on that one, don't remember the name sugrdaddy something.
What I do know with SA, pay my money and within a few days have a full card of girls to meet and fuck.
PP.
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[QUOTE=LshRoomer;2459529]Mongers,
I know this thread is based on Seeking, but are there any other SB sites out there that you guys have had success with?
I've seen Seeking is usually at the top, but I'm curious if there are other sites out there that one should consider.[/QUOTE]I tried Secret Benefits and Sugardadymeet. Stayed for short periods and drifted away. I went back to secretbenefits a couple of times but never stayed for too long. I like the monthly pricing of SA and unlimited messaging. I also think SA has the largest selection of girls, at least in my area and it is known to be the site w / most subscribers globally. I found majority of girls on the other sites were ones I had seen on SA.
Typically I went to these other sites when there was a hiatus on SA renewal. Normally, I renew as soon as my subscription expires but occasionally I have waited for a week or two, and a few times waited even a month. It was during such times I tried out the other sites.
Try Tinder as well. I had some success on the site, some semi professionals.
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[QUOTE=Pessimist;2459760]
Typically I went to these other sites when there was a hiatus on SA renewal. Normally, I renew as soon as my subscription expires but occasionally I have waited for a week or two, and a few times waited even a month. It was during such times I tried out the other sites.
[/QUOTE]What is the benefit of having an ongoing subscription to SA?
My purpose on SA is usually for a specific event or travel requirement. For me, I find that when I start a new subscription most of the talent will become obvious within a week or at most two weeks. Those leads give me enough to work through for the next few months. My last subscription I gifted the remaining subscription login to another ISG member. The SBs that meet my qualifications will stay engaged with me for a year or so.
Each time I have a requirement I start a new profile.
I'm willing to learn the benefits of having a longer profile and subscription.
PP.
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[QUOTE=PilotPaul;2460104]What is the benefit of having an ongoing subscription to SA?
My purpose on SA is usually for a specific event or travel requirement. For me, I find that when I start a new subscription most of the talent will become obvious within a week or at most two weeks. Those leads give me enough to work through for the next few months. My last subscription I gifted the remaining subscription login to another ISG member. The SBs that meet my qualifications will stay engaged with me for a year or so.
Each time I have a requirement I start a new profile.
I'm willing to learn the benefits of having a longer profile and subscription.
PP.[/QUOTE]When I was active on SA, I had an ongoing subscription because I was using it to find local action. I was on it continuously for about 20 months. Most of my SB relationships didn't last for very long, so I had to maintain an ongoing subscription to make sure that I always had a decent size stable. I usually liked having about 3 active relationships at time, while also trying to maintain a deep bench.
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What's the best burner app for fake#, with texting, and video calling?
The one I'm using doesn't support video calling, which has caused some issues.
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Took the plunge
OK boys I got the new exclusive email, the unlimited Hushed app (only $5/ month for in the US) and a 3 month membership to SA. Been on for 2 days now. I threw out about 20 messages and got 2 replies so far. One I think was a scammer just after my phone number. The other one texted me a pick and she didn't look nearly as good as her one pic on SA so she's out. I've been favorited by like 200 girls from all over the world. I'm getting my $2 day worth just from checking out all these crazy bitches. Don't worry I won't be sending any money out electronically. I got enough headaches with that from my chicas in Cuba and Columbia. I'm wondering if I should send a message or just ask for their private pics first? Thanks for all the helpful tips.
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[QUOTE=IntlPlayboy;2460272]What's the best burner app for fake#, with texting, and video calling?
The one I'm using doesn't support video calling, which has caused some issues.[/QUOTE]I use Whatsapp for Business. This allows me to have my normal life Whatsapp on my phone plus WA for Business with my burner number.
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Aha Business Acct!
[QUOTE=PilotPaul;2460386]I use Whatsapp for Business. This allows me to have my normal life Whatsapp on my phone plus WA for Business with my burner number.[/QUOTE]Aha. That explains why some girls whatsapp says "business acct" which I always found confusing. I am going to guess the more pro girls do this double phone thing. I am going to check and see if I see a correlation.
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Out of Country
[QUOTE=AmorPorFavor;2460378]OK boys I got the new exclusive email, the unlimited Hushed app (only $5/ month for in the US) and a 3 month membership to SA. Been on for 2 days now. I threw out about 20 messages and got 2 replies so far. One I think was a scammer just after my phone number. The other one texted me a pick and she didn't look nearly as good as her one pic on SA so she's out. I've been favorited by like 200 girls from all over the world. I'm getting my $2 day worth just from checking out all these crazy bitches. Don't worry I won't be sending any money out electronically. I got enough headaches with that from my chicas in Cuba and Columbia. I'm wondering if I should send a message or just ask for their private pics first? Thanks for all the helpful tips.[/QUOTE]Personally I rarely engage with someone that favorites me. These are obviously pros at work. And why bother with someone out of the country? All they can offer is photos for cash. Blech! I just ignore all the Russians Veni and Filipinas who favorite me everyday.
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[QUOTE=AmorPorFavor;2460378]OK boys I got the new exclusive email, the unlimited Hushed app (only $5/ month for in the US) and a 3 month membership to SA. Been on for 2 days now. I threw out about 20 messages and got 2 replies so far. One I think was a scammer just after my phone number. The other one texted me a pick and she didn't look nearly as good as her one pic on SA so she's out. I've been favorited by like 200 girls from all over the world. I'm getting my $2 day worth just from checking out all these crazy bitches. Don't worry I won't be sending any money out electronically. I got enough headaches with that from my chicas in Cuba and Columbia. I'm wondering if I should send a message or just ask for their private pics first? Thanks for all the helpful tips.[/QUOTE]I rarely get favorited, if ever. And hardly any girl ever favorited me before I did to her. I wonder what it is that you do differently than I do. You say you are on SA for just a couple of days and have been favorited by 200 girls! That is amazing to me, because I have been on it for 4+ years and have had several dozens of real arrangements that included sex, and yet the total number of girls that favorited me in 4 years+ might not exceed 200.
Perhaps I inadvertently clicked on something in my profile settings that is preventing girls from favoriting me. A few weeks ago, when there was a discussion about whether girls who favorite you are automatically scammers, I was dismissive of that view point. But now I realize after reading your post that it can be a real problem if you receive so many favorite tags from so many girls. I just did not experience it and hence I did not imagine it could be a problem.
Wow, 200 favorites in 2 days. I wonder how it looks from a girl's pov. If she is reasonably attractive, she must be receiving 200 favorite tags in 2 hours, based on what you said. No wonder some of them take so much time to get back to you.
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[QUOTE=Steve9696;2460544]Personally I rarely engage with someone that favorites me. These are obviously pros at work. And why bother with someone out of the country? All they can offer is photos for cash. Blech! I just ignore all the Russians Veni and Filipinas who favorite me everyday.[/QUOTE]Most definitely. I am not contacting them. I have my search zone set at 10 miles. I just find some of their pages entertaining. Had one Brazilian who lives locally that I messaged ask for my phone number. After a couple of small talk texts she lays it all out. Says she lost a SD 2 months ago and wants $800 ppm "sex only with protection" and a $3,000 month allowance. She's hot and all but just a 9/10. I didn't reply and I'm not going to. Not looking for a pro, just a semi-pro.
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[QUOTE=Pessimist;2460566]
Perhaps I inadvertently clicked on something in my profile settings that is preventing girls from favoriting me.
Wow, 200 favorites in 2 days. [/QUOTE]From what I recall, when you go to the SA website, you will see featured profiles. Who gets featured changes up. Sometimes, premium members are featured. Sometimes nearby members are featured. Sometimes *new* members are featured. Etc. Perhaps when this guy joined for the first time, his profile got featured, and then many SBs just favorited him. It looks like almost everyone is playing the numbers game now.
But as it has been said already, I don't pay any attention to whether or not I get favorited. I did think it meant something at one point, but when I contacted them, it was just a waste of time. Ironically, if I were to get favorited now, I would use it as a signal to simply avoid those gals.
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Favorites
Looking at it again it was only about 150 favorites in the first 2 days but now its over 250. And no I don't contact them unless they are HOT and live relatively close. Got a lunch date set up for Wed with a cute 23 year old. I guess it doesn't hurt to be handsome even if you are old.
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Puzzled
I thought I was a pro at this but the latest girl I am pursuing has me puzzled. I am having a helluva time finding someone to my liking in a rather small US city. Found a girl who is very pretty (body don't know) like model level face. I don't think a pro would work this city. And in fact P411 offers only three pros and all are past their prime. So unlikely a pro by that measure.
But we went straight to text at her request. And she has a business WhatsApp. Said she is looking for long term fun with intimacy. And it's rare for a girl to make a first mention of sex like that. (But equally rare for a pro to mention long term. Her bio is very chaste like she is looking for a long term boyfriend) She's quite short in her responses also. But she sent another pic which looks legit.
I guess I can go for a meetup and see, but any other advice from others on figuring out if she is real or something is up?
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[QUOTE=AmorPorFavor;2460696]Looking at it again it was only about 150 favorites in the first 2 days but now its over 250. And no I don't contact them unless they are HOT and live relatively close. Got a lunch date set up for Wed with a cute 23 year old. I guess it doesn't hurt to be handsome even if you are old.[/QUOTE]When I'm on SA, I receive the crazy out of country favs, and the response favorites. The only favorites that I pay attention to is if the girl has viewed my profile, is in my country (I change my country to the place I'm going. It's helps with not getting branded as a tourist) or is favoriting me after I viewed hers and favorited her. I've found that usually when she replies with a favorite, she actually has read my profile. I say very specific things in my profile concerning expectations, etc. The girls that view and favorite me tend to already be self-vetted and at that point, it's just moving over to whatsapp and continue on if she's not weird.
Frequency. It's interesting to hear that some of you guys are on for months at a time. I have never used it like that. Whenever I travel (about 2 times a quarter pre-covid) I just grab a 30 day membership about 2 weeks before I land, get a few local girls (I'm 90% in europe) and then end the membership (within the 30 days) until I need it again, usually a few months later. For me, it's strictly based on need. I disable my account when I'm not traveling, and renew about 3-4 times a year. I made the mistake of talking to new girls after my travel was over because my membership was still active. We would chat, like each other, move over to whatsapp, then I seem like a time wasting asshole because I'm not going to be back in her country for another 6 -8 weeks. LOL. I had to learn the hard way to avoid the temptation of chatting when you can't physically meet. All that being said, I would probably change my tune if I used SA locally, as I would constantly be dipping my foot in the pool.
02.
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[QUOTE=Steve9696;2460783]I thought I was a pro at this but the latest girl I am pursuing has me puzzled. I am having a helluva time finding someone to my liking in a rather small US city. Found a girl who is very pretty (body don't know) like model level face. I don't think a pro would work this city. And in fact P411 offers only three pros and all are past their prime. So unlikely a pro by that measure.
But we went straight to text at her request. And she has a business WhatsApp. Said she is looking for long term fun with intimacy. And it's rare for a girl to make a first mention of sex like that. (But equally rare for a pro to mention long term. Her bio is very chaste like she is looking for a long term boyfriend) She's quite short in her responses also. But she sent another pic which looks legit.
I guess I can go for a meetup and see, but any other advice from others on figuring out if she is real or something is up?[/QUOTE]Here are three possibilities:
(1) She is super desperate for money, and given that you guys are in a small city with limited opportunities, she grabs any opportunity that presents itself.
(2) IF she was willing to meet right away, without even vetting you that much, then it's a trap of some kind, such as LE or her friends will beat you up and rob you.
(3) This is just her MO.
I might guess it's (1), but be safe in case it's (2).
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[QUOTE=Steve9696;2460783]I thought I was a pro at this but the latest girl I am pursuing has me puzzled. I am having a helluva time finding someone to my liking in a rather small US city. Found a girl who is very pretty (body don't know) like model level face. I don't think a pro would work this city. And in fact P411 offers only three pros and all are past their prime. So unlikely a pro by that measure.
But we went straight to text at her request. And she has a business WhatsApp. Said she is looking for long term fun with intimacy. And it's rare for a girl to make a first mention of sex like that. (But equally rare for a pro to mention long term. Her bio is very chaste like she is looking for a long term boyfriend) She's quite short in her responses also. But she sent another pic which looks legit.
I guess I can go for a meetup and see, but any other advice from others on figuring out if she is real or something is up?[/QUOTE]Steve 9696,
I'd be curious to see how this turns out. Dude, you are a pro! So if this one has you perplexed, I'd like to know where her end game lands. She may be genuine or she may know the buzz words to use. I know that I use certain buzz words with SBs and they include "long term", "travel with me", "NO ONS", "No beautiful idiots", etc and they eat it up.
The short responses, changing comms fast. She knows the process. She might be tired of a bunch of short term SDs and just want something more stable, or this might be rinse and repeat for her (pro).
I think you are on track. I would do the same. See what happens at the meetup and test the waters. You will easily see if she is a pro during the vetting process. I prefer to bang a SB on the first night, but I have had fun times with an SB for 1-2 nights without banging her (no cash exchange). If she's a pro, it would be unlikely that she would want to chill without being paid, but someone looking for a long term arrangement usually wouldn't have a problem with it.
Again man. Be safe. Keep your wallet. And let us know how it works out.
02.
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[QUOTE=IntlPlayboy;2460272]What's the best burner app for fake#, with texting, and video calling?
The one I'm using doesn't support video calling, which has caused some issues.[/QUOTE]Text Now and 2nd line are good.
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SA Rookie
[QUOTE=PilotPaul;2455916]For me I know that SA provides me with better 'bang' for my mongering buck. My current girl sticks around for 4 hours of sexual activity for $300 whereas a similar professional would be asking $2,000. On my business trips where I have take a SB for a set weekly fee of $700 and had a sexual companion for 7 nights.[/QUOTE]I have RTFF back about 10 pages but haven't been able to get a good handle on pricing in the American (actually Canadian) market.
Pilot Paul's costing sounds about right to me, based on my SB experience outside of SA.
In the past (3 - 10 years ago) I used to run personals on CL or Backpage "Daddy seeks Baby Girl for fun" or something of that nature.
I had very good success in recruiting college girls for a long term relationship (6 to 12 months) for $200 - $300 per meeting.
These were non-pro girls who did not place ads or profiles of their own, they just lurked in the Personals looking for a guy like me.
More recently I have been travelling / living in countries where I can just put profiles on Cupid or Tinder and have as many dates / GFs as I like for very small outlays.
I can't use normal dating websites when in my home market for reasons of discretion. Besides, Tinder works well for an old guy like me in Latin America, but I doubt it would in America.
Having been grounded back in Canada by the covid crisis, I am now struggling to find the right forum to recruit a new SB. I was assuming SA was mostly pro or semi-pro, and I am certainly not prepared to pay a monthly allowance of $X,000!
But what Pilot Paul and a few others are saying suggests that there are some of the same types of girls I used to attract hanging out on that site, in North American cities.
What's the view of the experts here?
BTW I usually had just one intro date with any prospect before our second meeting was at a hotel. And sometimes we decided to skip the intro meeting and go straight to bed!
Some liked to be wined and dined and some didn't really want to be seen in public with me, which was okay. Saved time and money.
Some were very money motivated, but usually relaxed over time, and some seemed to be doing it mostly for fun or the experience (although money was still part of the package).
Some of these girls simply disappeared once they didn't need the support any more (or they got a better offer) and some stayed in touch for months or years after they moved on.
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Lots of Work 3-5 Bills
[QUOTE=GentlemanTravel;2460898]I have RTFF back about 10 pages but haven't been able to get a good handle on pricing in the American (actually Canadian) market.
Pilot Paul's costing sounds about right to me, based on my SB experience outside of SA.
In the past (3 - 10 years ago) I used to run personals on CL or Backpage "Daddy seeks Baby Girl for fun" or something of that nature.
I had very good success in recruiting college girls for a long term relationship (6 to 12 months) for $200 - $300 per meeting.
These were non-pro girls who did not place ads or profiles of their own, they just lurked in the Personals looking for a guy like me.
More recently I have been travelling / living in countries where I can just put profiles on Cupid or Tinder and have as many dates / GFs as I like for very small outlays.
I can't use normal dating websites when in my home market for reasons of discretion. Besides, Tinder works well for an old guy like me in Latin America, but I doubt it would in America.
Having been grounded back in Canada by the covid crisis, I am now struggling to find the right forum to recruit a new SB. I was assuming SA was mostly pro or semi-pro, and I am certainly not prepared to pay a monthly allowance of $X,000!
But what Pilot Paul and a few others are saying suggests that there are some of the same types of girls I used to attract hanging out on that site, in North American cities.
What's the view of the experts here?
BTW I usually had just one intro date with any prospect before our second meeting was at a hotel. And sometimes we decided to skip the intro meeting and go straight to bed!
Some liked to be wined and dined and some didn't really want to be seen in public with me, which was okay. Saved time and money.
Some were very money motivated, but usually relaxed over time, and some seemed to be doing it mostly for fun or the experience (although money was still part of the package).
Some of these girls simply disappeared once they didn't need the support any more (or they got a better offer) and some stayed in touch for months or years after they moved on.[/QUOTE]Welcome!
Your last few paragraphs describe SA girls pretty precisely. Just like what you already have experience in. And it's a ton of work to separate the wheat from the chaff but you know this if you were doing backpage.
Some people on here have described what I consider very low prices 150-200 and I don't know of any girl I want who would go for that. But the common wisdom which I agree with is $400 for a pretty college or early career girl in most major cities. Adjust up $100 for NYC and San Francisco (possibly others) and adjust down $100 for second tier cities. So 3-5 bills will get you what you are looking for depending on city and your energy level for the search.
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[QUOTE=GentlemanTravel;2460898]
Some liked to be wined and dined and some didn't really want to be seen in public with me, which was okay. Saved time and money.
Some were very money motivated, but usually relaxed over time, and some seemed to be doing it mostly for fun or the experience (although money was still part of the package).
Some of these girls simply disappeared once they didn't need the support any more (or they got a better offer) and some stayed in touch for months or years after they moved on.[/QUOTE]Sounds like you have the right MO. You will just pply your traditional methods to the local market where you are operating.
In my hometown I use a similar picture to myself but interestingly never had any success with Tinder. Money in the transaction can cover a lot of inaccuracies.
PP.
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[QUOTE=GentlemanTravel;2460898]I have RTFF back about 10 pages but haven't been able to get a good handle on pricing in the American (actually Canadian) market.
Pilot Paul's costing sounds about right to me, based on my SB experience outside of SA.
In the past (3 - 10 years ago) I used to run personals on CL or Backpage "Daddy seeks Baby Girl for fun" or something of that nature.
I had very good success in recruiting college girls for a long term relationship (6 to 12 months) for $200 - $300 per meeting.
These were non-pro girls who did not place ads or profiles of their own, they just lurked in the Personals looking for a guy like me.[/QUOTE]Hello,
Pricing depends on where you live. If you are in Omaha, NE or Baton Rouge, LA, pricing will be less than in San Fran and NYC and Boston. In smaller cities, you can get away with 200 per meet on average, and occasionally even less.
Also, if you get comfortable with a girl and she likes you as well, you can make a longer term deal such as twice a week, $1200 a month. That would average to $150 a meet. The girl might still take it. In a smaller, inexpensive city $1200 would cover her rent and car payment. Not a bad deal.
Another very important variable is the age and type of the girl. Are you looking for model type, 20-25, white girl? Are you OK with Latina, perhaps other races, 30+, slightly plump girls as well? I go for the former, and occasionally Latina girls but of the slim, pretty type. So, my costs are higher. If you relax on your demand specs, you can get more bang for the buck.
SA provides you a place where you can connect to the girls. 70-80% of the people you make an initial intro will flake out. Cast a wide net, be patient, stay disciplined. You will get a good deal eventually.
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Intro to SB
Since things are a bit slow right now I thought you might enjoy the back story of how I ended up being such a Sugar Baby enthusiast. It all started NOT on SA at all but in a Boate in Campinas with a girl from Rio. For those not familiar with a Boate it's an amazing thing. A nightclub where all the girls are on offer and there are onsite rooms. Often the girls are semi-pros as was the case with Thifany. She would fly from Rio to work the Boate when she needed a cash infusion. Strangely 2 girls I've had sex with at a Boate got engaged within a month or two of my visit. So definitely not pros.
This is a long and amazing story (at least that I was part of it!) so I am going to break it into two parts. The first part is meeting at the Boate and having a whale of a time. The second part is when I flew her to London. It is here that I got my taste if enjoying a girl thoroughly not just in the bedroom. And my lust for an SB relationship was kindled.
Since I wrote the below, she got engaged. Then told me it didn't matter we could still see each other and he does P4 P also and likes guys! LOL. But then she bailed on our Buenos Aires trip and I met the new love of my life, Valentina. And now Valentina has bailed and onto the next one!
Remember this was more than year ago -- August and Sept 2018. I had never flown a girl anywhere or done anything but basic escort paid sex. I found that I completely love having a girlfriend, so thus SA (and the fact that it skirts US prostitution laws) has become a staple for me.
Summary I meet a unicorn a true 10. We kiss like high schoolers. We have passionate sex once alone and once with her friend. We stay in touch and I invite her to join me on a London business trip (what are you crazy?) and she accepts (what is she crazy? We party like rockstars in love. Can never be equaled.
I had been in Brazil since Saturday night and done girls at Scandalo, Casarao, Tangara, my hotel, and Moustache. (5 girls at 5 different venues in less than 24 hours upon landing. WTF was I thinking! I don't know but it was spectacular!) I'the read about Fazendinha and was itching to try. It's out in the country about a half hour from Campinas.
I read online that they have a limo service and will pick up in Campinas. So I got in touch with them on Whatsapp and arranged pickup. I set the pickup at the nearby Radisson Red hotel so as to not run into colleagues in the lobby. Easy walk and had a drink at the bar while I waited.
Sure enough a van driver shows up and we head for Fazendinha. This is around 10:30 Pm. When we arrive he says he can pick me up at 2 or 3:30 AM. At first I say 2 but then reconsider to 3:30. Glad I did!
Upon arrival I pay the entry fee of around $50 which is all consumable (credited against drinks until exceeded) and see a gorgeous girl in a super short black skirt checking in. I think if this is the talent level here (a solid 9 from a distance) then I am going to have fun!
Very solicitous service from their staff. The waiters / hosts are dressed kind of like butlers in maroon vests. Very classy. My man takes me to a table and I survey the scene. There is a small dance floor and small stage. Only two of three other tables occupied (early on a Tuesday) maybe ten guys total. Probably 30-40 girls milling about. So a target rich environment.
I order the usual Jack and Coke and survey all the girls. The format here which I learned at Moustache is the girls aren't allowed to approach. You have to wave them over. Most of the girls are just standing around. I see the girl I saw originally out front and she is still the prettiest. She is kind of self dancing to the beat so I like that too. About 20 minutes in I decide she is the best and wave her over.
Wow and I mean wow! Up close she is a TEN no lie. Gorgeous face and a smile that will rock your world. She is so bubbly and enthusiastic as we start to chat. She speaks very little English and I speak only a little Portuguese (I learned for this specific purpose that is how dedicated to the sport I am! I am totally captivated by just looking at her. Pure perfection.
We fall into a very comfortable relationship from the getgo. Light touching comes naturally to both of us so I lean in and softly kiss her. A little tongue foray to see how she reacts and she opens her mouth and starts to softly engage tongues. OMG it is perfection. We somehow sense exactly what the other likes and just kiss blissfully for about five minutes. I eventually pull back and we resume chatting. (I realize later that I was always the one who broke the lip lock, never her. I think she honestly loves kissing me!
I get her a drink she only wants coconut water and we continue to have a great time just giggling like teenagers. - my broken Portuguese and her broken English. It is truly a blast, plus there is a ton more kissing.
At some point I must have mentioned I'the been to Scandalo which is the most expensive club in Brazil. The girls there charge 800 are ($200/ HR) which is considered absolute highway robbery in Brazil. I had paid my girl there 700 are and was very happy. Because when I ask Thifany "Quanta costa?" She says 500 (I know from the owner that 300 is what most girls charge). I lightly protest "Muito carro" (very expensive!) but she counters "well, you went to Scandalo!" Clever girl. I like her style!
So we agree the 500 are ($125) and head to the room. There is a little cashier procedure to pay for the room and her fee and we are off hand in hand strolling the hundred or so yards on the grounds to the room. It is very affectionate walking there. Her taking my arm and leaning into me like a real girlfriend who adores you would.
So much of what I love about Thifany is that she either adores me or is a great actress. It feels like a million bucks to have this 22 year old fawning all over you and expressing undying adoration in her actions.
So in the room it is sort of the standard undress and shower like any good brothel. Of course we mix in kissing and undressing each other as part of the game. The only crowning disappointment is the lighting is either full on fluorescent or off. We end up with OFF which I later regret because I lack visual images of the in-room time (of course I got plenty of visuals later!
There is a lot of kissing and touching and exploring, so much so that we forgot to fuck this first time! But the CIM BJ was plenty sufficient. After some kissing, I work down to DATY, and she seems to generally enjoy it. I work my way kissing back up her body till we are mouth to mouth again and I am kind of slowly dry fucking with my cock against her pussy area. Then she does something I've never experienced before or since. She starts sliding the bottoms of her feet up and down the backs of my thighs while we kiss and dry fuck. Felt soooo good all those sensations at once. I suddenly realize OMG she is kinda signaling bareback. Fortunately I was only a few drinks in and did not take the plunge.
Now it was her turn to get to work. We flip over me on my back and she works her way down to start one of the top 5 BBBJs ever. BBBJ is my thing since I can't do bareback and condoms kill the feel. So I am in heaven she is so good. I can't remember if I signal ball sucking and licking like I do with some girls or she just goes there, but man she can BLS like nobody's business. And then the real surprise. She dives under the hood and starts rimming my asshole. No discussion no upsell just starts right in with her tongue.
I've only had one rim job before and it's an odd sensation. Doesn't make me want to cum but I reflexively clinch my asshole and that makes me very hard with all the repeated clinching. So it's good, but odd.
About 5 minutes of this I gently grab her head to pull her up but no she wants more. She dives under harder and deeper. I think she really enjoys this! Another five minutes and she comes up to finish Mr Happy. He is hard as a brick now and with her amazing skill I squirt a big load in her mouth pretty quickly.
She's not a swallower but she also doesn't rush off. Gives me a nice smile and then goes and spits it in the bathroom. Then we just cuddle and enjoy each other till the phone rings 5 minute warning I guess.
She of course thinks we are done for the night. But I break out my best broken Portuguese and explain I want to go back to the club together but then do it again. She takes a second to process this and confirm it back to me. Then she is sooooo excited "yes yes yes yes!" And is kissing me and all smiles and just over the moon.
So back to the club we go and get a table a little farther back from the dance floor where we can just kiss and canoodle. Just having some drinks with my girlfriend! At one point I ask her in Portuguese if she has any friends at the club. I am just making small talk but she lights up and says "yes Maria is my best friend. She's right over there. Do you want to go to the room together?" That was not really my plan so I say maybe. She says let me go talk to her.
So she goes over and spends maybe 10 minutes with her friend. They are dancing together and doing that booty shaking thing that only Brazilian girls can really do. Wow. Soooooo sexy. She comes back and says her friend says OK, should she come over and I say sure. So they both come over and start Booty shaking dancing like 2 feet in front of me. "Do you want to go together?" I say sure but let's dance first.
So we go out on the dance floor together all three of us. This has to be the highlight of many king of the world experiences. We are all dancing and hip grinding. We literally do a three way DFK that is kind of amazing and truly a first. They are both grabbing my package and rubbing and DFKing me and acting sexy as hell. When I can take no more I say let's get a room. Thifany says it will be 400 each so 800 total a bargain! OK rock on!
At the room there is a huge round bed and a big shower area I guess we were upgraded for the duo. Geez I wish I could remember every detail. What I remember most fondly is Thifany had put on her music and there was a very slow song. Maria was on her back on the bed. Thifany has her face buried in Maria's pussy and Thifany's ass is up at the edge of the bed. I am standing behind her on the floor and doing doggy thrusts in time to the music. So slow and goes on forever. All this time, Maria has her index finger in her mouth. Sliding it in and out to my rhythm and looking at me with fuck-me doe eyes as I fuck Thifany from behind. Wowowow. Will remember that forever.
We swap around positions some and I am on my back with Thifany straddling my face and Maria in RCG riding me like she hasn't had sex in months! Eventually we end up with a joint BJ and HJ damn they had to work to finish me on my 8th fuck in three days, but troopers that they are they were rewarded with a solid cumshot.
So it's straight up 3 AM now but my ride is not till 3:30. I assume she will ditch me now and I will just wait it out. Nope. Instead she says "do you want to come to breakfast?" And I say sure. Well I didn't notice it when I arrived but there is a revolving door near the front of the club that leads to a small restaurant where they are serving breakfast buffet. Not for the guests, but for the girls!
There are 20 working girls there having breakfast and me and Thifany and Maria. I am the only guy in the room. This is totally surreal! Turns out they serve cake at breakfast in Brazil and Thifany has her favorite chocolate cake and chocolate milk. She is really like a teenager even though she is 22 and frankly I LOVE it!
So, sigh. I do eventually have to leave and I kiss her goodbye. But that is NOT the end of this story. Stay tuned for Part 2!
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Great story, Steve.
Looking forward to Part 2.
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2461208]Looking forward to Part 2.[/QUOTE]Keep it coming. Hell of a picture. Now I'm thinking of checking out Brazil!
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Premium SD?
What does it mean when they make you a premium SD? Does that get you anything extra?
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[QUOTE=AmorPorFavor;2461233]What does it mean when they make you a premium SD? Does that get you anything extra?[/QUOTE]What I know is it is something you pay for. The main benefit is you can send and read unlimited number of messages without picture.
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Yes Must do SP
[QUOTE=LshRoomer;2461214]Keep it coming. Hell of a picture. Now I'm thinking of checking out Brazil![/QUOTE]Yes every serious girl-enthusiast must do São Paulo. Scandallo Boate on a Thurs / Fri will have 150+ girls all 7,8, and 9's. And all friendly and available. Plus it's very girlfriendy. First girl I ever met there we talked and danced and drank And kissed for two hours before I thought to get a room! Then she asked me to drive to the beach with her and a friend. (I had to decline). Then she got engaged a month later! Brasileiras are uniquely wonderful.
If I had a week to live I'the fly to Brazil and spend it at Scandallo. Scandallo should be on every mans bucket list.
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Thifany Part 2 of 3!
Actually have to break into three parts! Sorry for the tease! This contains a lot of the angst around making it happen. U might wonder why bother when I have plenty of pros in London (Diva is great!) and of course the answer is I was after more than just an hour of sex. This is really enjoying a girl fully 24/7 and I was totally smitten with her.
So recall in Part 1 that we had just had cake for breakfast (common in SP!) at the hooker late night buffet and parted ways.
She gives me her number and we stay in touch on WhatsApp. All the Brazilian girls have WhatsApp so I had them send me pics and such. But somehow the interaction with Thifany is special. She's on my mind the whole trip and beyond. Back home she sends me a few professional pics (she is a model or at least trying to be one) and wow. I feel like the king having bedded that goddess.
Chatting starts pretty slow and I say I had such a great time with her. She writes back and says she had a great night too best night of her life. We'll surely that is BS but it feels great. A couple days into our chat, I say "I know this is kinda crazy but would you ever join me on a business trip" She says she'the love to! I say maybe London or Vegas. She says it doesn't matter as long as I'm with you. Again I know it's a bit of hyperbole, but damn it feels good!
So we start planning and I consult various experts on sugar baby dating for the watch outs there are plenty. The first experts tell me whatever you do don't send her money for her plane ticket. She will just grab and go. Others say no you should pay her cash for her ticket. If she takes the money and runs valuable lesson learned without getting emotionally engaged. Turns out I kinda did both.
I decide to send her the money. But she says she has never booked a ticket online before and can I do it for her. I say yeah but I will need to know your real name and your passport number and all that. She immediately texts me a photo of her passport page. What? She is so young and free and naive. Good thing I am a nice guy.
Earlier when chatting she says she will have her birthday with me in London and she is so excited. I figure this is a bunch of escort BS who the fuck wants to have their birthday with an old man they hardly know? Well I guess she does, because when I get her passport I see she is not joking. She will turn 23 on the Monday of our trip together! So I need to make sure it's special.
The couple weeks leading up to our rendezvous are quivering with excitement. I am sneaking out on various errands at night just to check my burner phone and see what she just texted me. I am like a fucking teenager but it feels good.
Then, the appointed day comes but holy crap the drama. I have arranged our flights to line up. So I am at the airport waiting for my outbound leg and she is at her connection city So Paulo. I should have figured something was up when she was texting me and should have boarded already.
Well I get to my connecting city and I have a WhatsApp of her bawling her eyes out and that she missed her connecting flight. My scam radar is on high alert but I can't think of anything that really could be going on. I tell her I will look into another flight. Geez this is dicey. I am sitting on the floor between connections and talking to the agent. For $1500 I can get her another flight. I obviously seriously consider just bagging it all that is a ton of money but she was so sad and I was pretty devastated too.
So I pull the trigger, but the drama does not end there. Since I am buying a ticket for someone else, they need a photo of my drivers license to prove I am who I say I am. I am REALLY careful about keeping all this private so doing that was really out of the question. But I did it anyhow! I was all in.
Ticket issued but she will arrive 5 hours later at London City airport coming from Porto Portugal. But the drama does not end there!
Our additional complication is that neither of us has a European data plan so we can only communicate on Wifi. At the hotel I am able to confirm she made her connection woohoo! But when I show up at LC their wifi does not work. I am waiting for her and trying to get it but no luck. People are coming out but not her. People are coming from her flight but not her. I check the counter. They won't tell me if she was on the flight private info.
I am sooooo frustrated. I think OMG after all this she is not coming. I think all I can do is leave and find a bar somewhere and get on WiFi and regroup. Just as I am leaving, there she is all smiles and hugs and OMG she looks AMAZING! I kid you not that she is a model.
So we get one of those big London cabs and are way in the back. We start a little touching and light kissing and next thing you know we are DFKing like teenagers again in the back of the cab! This is one of the things I love most about her. All the girlfriends I've ever had have that American inhibitions thing going on "not now honey, someone might see" Not Thifany. If she wants to make out we are going to make out doesn't matter where.
The other great thing in the cab is her 22 ness. She is like a school girl. "Oh my god, look at that. It is soooo beautiful. " Seeing London through her eyes is just intoxicating.
Sooo much to cover in London. I will just hit the highlights. The summary is it could have been an awkward weird mess staying with someone you've know a total of Five hours. But instead it is completely awesome.
So I have work out of town on Monday and won't be "home" until 11 PM so we decide to have her birthday dinner Sunday night just a few hours after she arrived. We hit a couple stores on Regent street briefly and then head to Chichettis for dinner. Great seafood tapas. Turns out scallops are both are favorites and we have some brilliant ones and all the other stuff was good too. I have the waiter bring a chocolate cupcake with a candle for her birthday. She is pretty stoked.
I think the waiter was very amused watching us with English Portuguese and Google Translate (and probably amusedly noting our 30 year age difference). It should have been awkward but it was awesome.
Little did I know when I suggested we might go dancing I had hit the hot button and the next four days would be non-stop dancing and drinking till 3 Am every night. With fab sex before or after. But that's all happening in Part 3! Stay tuned.
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SA arrangements
[QUOTE=Steve9696;2461342].[/QUOTE]Never tried what you are doing. Most of my mongering is done in Hong Kong but I have moved away from the bars where it is easy to pick-up girls to making arrangements with DH's. There is no cost here, the ones I have met are desperate for just a bit of company and someone being kind to them and I treat them well.
However, your story is amazing! You lucky man! I am so envious. Good luck to you. Will be interested in the next chapter!
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[QUOTE=Nounce;2461242]What I know is it is something you pay for. The main benefit is you can send and read unlimited number of messages without picture.[/QUOTE]SA made me a premium member after 4 days on the site. I didn't pay or do anything to get it. Still wondering what the benefit is.
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Travel troubles
[QUOTE=Steve9696;2461342]
So we start planning and I consult various experts on sugar baby dating for the watch outs there are plenty. The first experts tell me whatever you do don't send her money for her plane ticket. She will just grab and go. Others say no you should pay her cash for her ticket. If she takes the money and runs valuable lesson learned without getting emotionally engaged. Turns out I kinda did both.
I decide to send her the money. But she says she has never booked a ticket online before and can I do it for her. I say yeah but I will need to know your real name and your passport number and all that. She immediately texts me a photo of her passport page. What? She is so young and free and naive. Good thing I am a nice guy.
Earlier when chatting she says she will have her birthday with me in London and she is so excited. I figure this is a bunch of escort BS who the fuck wants to have their birthday with an old man they hardly know? Well I guess she does, because when I get her passport I see she is not joking. She will turn 23 on the Monday of our trip together! So I need to make sure it's special.
The couple weeks leading up to our rendezvous are quivering with excitement. I am sneaking out on various errands at night just to check my burner phone and see what she just texted me. I am like a fucking teenager but it feels good.
Then, the appointed day comes but holy crap the drama. I have arranged our flights to line up. So I am at the airport waiting for my outbound leg and she is at her connection city So Paulo. I should have figured something was up when she was texting me and should have boarded already.
Well I get to my connecting city and I have a WhatsApp of her bawling her eyes out and that she missed her connecting flight. My scam radar is on high alert but I can't think of anything that really could be going on. I tell her I will look into another flight. Geez this is dicey. I am sitting on the floor between connections and talking to the agent. For $1500 I can get her another flight. I obviously seriously consider just bagging it all that is a ton of money but she was so sad and I was pretty devastated too...[/QUOTE]Yes, travelling with a GF / SB from another country can be nerve-wracking and trouble prone. I had one experience where my Colombian GF was to meet me in the Bogota airport for us to travel onward to an island vacation spot. I bought her ticket but somehow misunderstood the structure of her name and so the ticket was not honored at her origin point. She used all the $$ she had to get a flight to Bogota, for us to sort this out there. Plus she could not take her booked flight onward to our final destination because there was some kind of fee that had to be paid on departure. Then my flight got delay by a day, so she was stuck at the airport for 24 hours with no cash, no food or drink and no way to get home if I didn't show up, which I eventually did. So I ended up having to essentially pay twice for her travel.
Another time I arranged for a Ukrainian girl (whom I had never met) to join me for a few days in Paris and a tour of the champagne district. It mostly worked out well (including I sent her funds and she bought the ticket) but when we had to depart separately to go to Kyiv, she missed her flight because she didn't understand the trains to the airport (poor English and no French). Fortunately, she had the funds to book another flight, but I had to reimburse her for the replacement ticket. At least I got another night of sex out of her in Kyiv (didn't keep her on otherwise though, as my dance card was already full for Kyiv). You can't stiff these girls for that kind of money, even if they make a mistake. It's all the money they have.
But there was a lot of stress and expense in these experiences.
Which brings me to my real point, Steve, why bother to bring someone from so far away? I grant that Thiffany may be a 10 and something special, but there are lots of sexy girls in UK and Europe who can provide the same experience and involve less hassle and expense. You can get a lot of play time with a local SB for $1500! A wise man on ISG once told me, anywhere there is a college, there are plenty of sexy, smart girls who need money or fun. He was talking about the US, but I have found that in Canada also. The problem is how to find them. In Rio or Kyiv you can pull them off any dating website or out of many bars or just bump into them on the street. But in Western cities it is a lot more challenging, especially for older guys like us.
Which brings us to this specific sub-forum. I will be interested to discover if I can find the same kind of young, cute, non-pro coed sex toys through SA that I used to recruit out of CL or Backpage.
Haven't actually joined SA yet. Still checking our reviews and competitor sites, but will probably take the plunge shortly.
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Premium or not?
[QUOTE=AmorPorFavor;2461367]SA made me a premium member after 4 days on the site. I didn't pay or do anything to get it. Still wondering what the benefit is.[/QUOTE]Is it practical to NOT be a Premium member? I know they say you can belong for free, but I assume there are so many restrictions on what you can do as to make it not feasible.
Or am I wrong, and you can be successful on the site using just the standard membership?
Plus, will potential SBs look at your profile and decide if you are not paying Premium, then you are a cheap bastard and not worth considering?
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Browse is Free Contact Not
[QUOTE=GentlemanTravel;2461402]Is it practical to NOT be a Premium member? I know they say you can belong for free, but I assume there are so many restrictions on what you can do as to make it not feasible.
Or am I wrong, and you can be successful on the site using just the standard membership?
Plus, will potential SBs look at your profile and decide if you are not paying Premium, then you are a cheap bastard and not worth considering?[/QUOTE]As long as you just browse it's free. When you want to contact a girl you have to be premium. I thinknthey changed to allow 10 free contacts but that is nothing. I browsed for nearly 6 months before I decided on a girl I couldn't resist. Of course then there was no forum like this to take the risk out. So I waited until I could wait no more.
I don't understand guys who don't join (pay premium). It's such a small fee in the scheme of what you are going to pay overall. But might as well browse for free till ready to pull the trigger and make contact.
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Thifany Part 3 - Final Chapter
OK so here is the final chapter. We stayed in touch after this but she soon got engaged and it was bittersweet to see her so happy with him (pro-tip following your girl on Instagram has the potential to break your heart! In the end I am super happy for her. I care for her and wish her the best. Strangely my first Scandallo girl, Karina, got engaged a month after we were together. So if you know any girls that want to get engaged they should hook up with me!
Anyhow here tis. Still my most magical experience to date. But it won't stay that way I am determined to exceed it!
Where we left off we just finished her birthday dinner at Chichettis and were looking to go dance.
Little did I know when I suggested we might go dancing I had hit the hot button. First we went walking. We just wandered hand-in-hand like a couple in love and found Chinatown and wandered the streets together. Eventually we found some street performers and I got the first glimpse of what a human whirlwind this girl is. Her English gets better when she drinks and suddenly she is engaging with the street performers and onlookers "That is amazing. You are so pretty. What's your name?" She is just so outgoing and engaging.
Eventually we ask about for a good dance club and end up at Bar Soho.
This is where I get the second but still reserved view of her goddess-like magnetism. As we are dancing in the club she is just so free and on fire. She is dancing mostly with me but suddenly she is dancing with another girl or maybe another guy it's quite crowded. She is really a highlight on the floor. I get a little jealous but I shrug it off. It is electric being with her.
When slow songs come on, we go in, hip to hip, and just swing and DFK. Sigh. The best. She is really on her good behavior when I suggest we pack it in around 1 AM and we head back.
Back in the room she literally pushes me on the bed and says I will do a strip tease for you. And sure enough she does the sexiest strip and then climbs on me and pushes me on my back. Of course the DFK is legendary -- I could kiss her 24 x7 and never get bored. We have lots of fun but what I remember most is her taking charge -- just pushing me down and blowing the fuck out of me. Then riding me like a blue-ribbon cowgirl. I can still visualize her biting her lip as she rides towards an O.
Had to move her to a different hotel the next day because I was, as far as my work knows, "staying" in a different city, so I was footing the bill for her room in London. Had a definite hiccup that day. She went to see a friend in London and when I got back to the hotel at 11 PM she wasn't there! I'the already paid the full allowance for the week and I thought OMG she ditched me!
After a bunch of angst, she finally got in contact and said she would be there soon. This was on Brasileira time (where being an hour late is being on time) and so about 12:15 she shows up. I had remembered earlier that this is just a Brazilian thing (Carolina was an hour late to our second date same thing) and decided to not make a big deal. Sure enough she bops out of the Uber all smiles and giggles like nothing is wrong and indeed nothing is in fact wrong. She is here and the world is right again.
Tiny little room. Barely room for a bed. We both get naked and do various things but what I remember best was this interesting modified mish. I was trying to do her in mish but a little too soft after a long day.(pr Viagra). Rather than traditional mish where I do all the work, she pushes me up on my knees and arches her back so her butt is in the air and she starts fucking the hell out of me. I don't really understand how she did it to this day but it was like a strong cowgirl riding from the bottom! She's a fucking wizard! And she had this smile the whole time as she rode me to a strong finish inside her.
Tuesday I came back late by train again and she was a good girl in apologetic mode -- she was in the room a half hour before I got there. I got there about 10:30 and suggested we go dancing. She was like "really?" And I said yes. Wow she lit up like fireworks. And off we went back to Bar Soho to start.
We danced there for a while, but when we were on a smoke break, there was one of those bicycle rickshaws waiting at the curb. We'the seen several of these but this one was decked out in pink fur with Drake and Kanye blasting out of a custom sound system. The driver is very cool and lets us take some pics and poses and then we go for a spin. He takes us all over and really this was close to a trip highlight. Zooming around London, my best girl on my arm. At one point we shoot a little music video of her dancing on the sidewalk to KIki Do you Luv Me. I probably watch it weekly. I am such a sap but it just makes me happy -- she's just such an amazing force of life and fuck she is beautiful.
After wrapping the video, we ask for a bigger, more happening club and he takes us to The Zoo. Wow. Great vibe. We dance upstairs for quite a while and then the upstairs closes and we move to the basement, where it turns out the party is even more off the hook. This is where Thifany becomes totally alive and I see the true party-girl goddess that she is.
We dance like maniacs and she finds a drink she likes Midori and Red Bull and it just gets crazier and crazier. She is the life of the party and by inference so am I. She brings people into our dance circle and it's girl on girl guy with guy, whatever goes. But, just like the night before, I start to feel that jealous pang -- why is she dancing with others?
I consider this quite seriously while dancing away and realize that I can sit here and stew or I can join the party. I mean what the fuck am I jealous about? Dance with my girl all you want, but she's going home with me! So I put the jealousy aside because I realize this-is-who-she-is and wow, it changes my whole perspective. Once I get past this I have the time of my life. I am even learning how to pull the wallflowers into our mosh pit. It is just electrifying. I remember distinctly thinking around 2 AM that this is the most fun I've had in my entire life!
It is so obvious she is the WOW girl that I get no less than three people commenting to me:
Guy: Dude she's with you? Goddamn you are lucky. She is so fucking hot!
Girl: Man you need to put a ring on that!
Guy: Did you come with your daughter?
Me: Ha. She's my girlfriend!
Guy: What? Man, you are the man. Mad props!
We party till they kick us out at 3:30 AM and head back home for another hot session but we are both pretty beat. Some nice 69 and finish with her spectacular BJ and me FIV.
Oh I am reminded we had another little rough spot that night. There is this African guy that bums smokes off us and come to find out he is selling ecstasy and she wants some. I say no way I don't like this guys vibe. She eventually agrees but gives me the cold shoulder for a half hour or so.
It is funny because we talk about this later and it turns out, it wasn't about the drugs. She was mad at me for giving away stuff so easily! I told the guy take 3 cigs. I tossed the bartender a 20 tip after quite a few rounds of excellent service in a busy club. She was mad at me for spending so freely! I guess she comes from a different economic situation!
So on Wednesday I was able to get off work around 3 and we were able to get back to our big comfy room at the business hotel across town. We went shopping for souvenirs and had another funny moment. She confessed she wasn't sleeping well because of my snoring so we were going to get earplugs while out shopping. At one point she says we need to remember to get "tampons" and I think OH SHIT of all times to get her period. But it turns out it was just a translation error! She means EARPLUGS! Whew!
She loves seafood, so for dinner we pick out a great seafood restaurant. Unfortunately they don't have scallops but they have crab and she says she loves it. She is going to order this big crab. I tell her it's super messy and are you sure. She says yes, I will have the crab.
When it comes, they of course bring a nutcracker. She says "for what?" and I patiently explain they are for cracking the legs. She says "don't need. " And she sticks a leg in her mouth, cracks it with her back teeth and sucks the meat out, slurping and all. OMG it is the sexiest thing on the planet. Her mouth is her finest feature and watching it in action for a half hour is breathtaking.
At one point I comment it's very sexy and she says "not sexy" in her incredibly sexy Portuguese accent which is very sexy itself!. And this becomes a little joke back and forth. So sexy. Not sexy. So sexy. Not sexy. God she is beautiful.
That night, we plan to head straight to the basement of The Zoo. As we approach the club there is a huge line. But the bouncer sees us and waves us to the front. Obviously they were paying attention! They open the VIP rope and send us right in. (Still pay the cover) Wow. King of the world -- and you know I love that!
I have really gotten the hang of being the center of attention and making the party happen. We have our own little mosh pit of admirers going. I am even dancing with other guys if the flow goes there and suddenly it is no big deal. She's even cured my touch of homophobia!
In addition to further spectacular dancing till the wee hours, we get fish and chips from across the street at 1:30 AM and feed it to each other outside the club on the steps. It's memories like this that stick with you.
With her spectacular magnetism, we gather a group of new friends and go looking for an after party at 3:30 AM. But with nothing open, some guys go for a beer run and we end up just partying on the street till 5 AM. I really can't describe what a force of nature this girl is -- the party just happens wherever she is. .
Thursday is our last day and we do touristy London stuff like shop and go to the big Ferris Wheel called the London Eye. It is so fun to just kick around with this doll on my arm. I buy her a couple little birthday gifts but frankly she is pretty low maintenance putting stuff back as way too expensive.
She has this amazing model-like capability of changing her look. She is sort of Latina with some black mixed in somewhere maybe way back. She bought some track pants with zirconia down the legs and some big glasses. She teams this up with a wife beater T-shirt (no bra hasn't worn one the whole trip. She has a perfect firm be cup) and a backwards ball cap and she is a girl from the hood. She totally rocks this look Thursday night.
We are headed to The Zoo again and I get another glimpse that she is not so young and naive. One of the guys we met the night before, can also supply X and I tell her it would be OK but she should not buy any to take back on the plane. She says why not? I explain about drug sniffing dogs and all, feeling I've made an important lesson. She says "it's no problem. I will put it in my pussy and my pussy smells way more than drugs!" LOL I about fell off the bed. Not so naive after all. Fortunately that doesn't pan out.
Before going to The Zoo, we are walking down the street and she says (I shit you not). "I've had such a good time. If you want to do this again I won't charge you anything. " I could never let her do that but wow the way it makes me feel.
Tonight we go to Zoo and not only do they wave through the VIP they comp our entry and wave us all the way in! True royalty. We have another great night, then go to an after party club till 4:30 Friday morning. We end up leaving because she says she was throwing up. But trooper she is, when we get back, we still have some epic sex and a CIM finish. Now that is a girl dedicated to your happiness. Barf up one minute and take a load of CIM the next.
Unfortunately we are winding it down from here. We have to get up at 9:30 and are still pretty hungover. We know we want to get one more quickie in, so we get some coffee and croissants from a nearby cafe and come back to the room for a final session. Honestly, it's not the best as I am worrying about missing our flights and I struggle to keep the focus. I do like the part where she is slowly slurping my dick and says "hmmm like an ice cream cone. " Watching her suck cock with those gorgeous lips will be forever etched in memory. Despite the flight worries, somehow I bless her with a hot load in her mouth. I am such a nice guy.
Parting at the airport is epically hard and on the plane I literally shed tears (she says she did too). It is like heroin withdrawal the high is so high coming down is tragically hard. Took me a couple weeks to even get my head back in the game. And thus ends the Thifany saga And the beginning of my addiction to having a girlfriend! And by inference SA is now my best friend. 😋
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Great f*cking story, Steve
I am not a big fan of FRs, but your story was pretty amazing. It would take me a couple of years to get over someone like that.
Taking an SB on a trip is risky. I've done it twice. Both times, I had a great date or two with the gal, and thought it would be worth the gamble on flying them to where I was going. One time from USA West coast to the east coast, and one time to Beijing. It worked out amazing one time, and horribly the other time. Won't go into details, especially given that Steven's story is a tough act to follow, haha.
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2461451] It worked out amazing one time, and horribly the other time. Won't go into details, especially given that Steven's story is a tough act to follow, haha.[/QUOTE]I'm curious what made it go horrible the next time? Was it that she got too greedy, or was it that your privacy was compromised, or something else?
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2461451]
Taking an SB on a trip is risky. I've done it twice.[/QUOTE]I've twice taken a SB from my home city. Was both times for me an excellent trip. I factored the cost as being more convenient that having to find local hookers and the various risks that would entail. Was great to have a head-turning babe in the airline lounge before flight, on the flights and in all of the business hotels on the trip. Was nice to have consistent company and even got all of my ironing done in each hotel.
I don't party as much as Steve 9696 but even my SB want to buy legal drugs in California.
PP.
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[QUOTE=SonicBoom1;2461453]I'm curious what made it go horrible the next time? Was it that she got too greedy, or was it that your privacy was compromised, or something else?[/QUOTE]It was something else. When we were together on that trip, 24/7, I finally got to know her really well, and I could not stand her. She was overbearing, a restless sleeper, picky eater, slow walker, boring conversationalist, argumentative, lazy, etc. I couldn't wait for that trip to end. Oh well.
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[QUOTE=PilotPaul;2461458]I've twice taken a SB from my home city. Was both times for me an excellent trip. I factored the cost as being more convenient that having to find local hookers and the various risks that would entail. Was great to have a head-turning babe in the airline lounge before flight, on the flights and in all of the business hotels on the trip. Was nice to have consistent company and even got all of my ironing done in each hotel.
I don't party as much as Steve 9696 but even my SB want to buy legal drugs in California.
PP.[/QUOTE]Yeah, I agree it's great when it works out. The trip with the first gal worked out great for me. I ended up taking her on other trips. All great trips. And very, very convenient to have a regular SB with me than having to hunt on the road.
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[QUOTE=AmorPorFavor;2461367]SA made me a premium member after 4 days on the site. I didn't pay or do anything to get it. Still wondering what the benefit is.[/QUOTE]You can go to setting payment to see if it says when the membership expires. Maybe they gift it to you because you are popular.
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[QUOTE=Nounce;2461624]You can go to setting payment to see if it says when the membership expires. Maybe they gift it to you because you are popular.[/QUOTE]I think I was mistaken. Now I think it just means that I paid the membership fee. But I did notice that few of the girls are premium members. Still getting about 40 favorites a day from all over. Lots of HOT South Americans. Its entertaining in the time of Covid. Got a date set up for Sunday.
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Pre-paid single use credit cards
Does anyone know if in USA there's a specific brand single use credit / debit card that SA will accept?
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[QUOTE=CenTexCrash;2461872]Does anyone know if in USA there's a specific brand single use credit / debit card that SA will accept?[/QUOTE]You will get your answer read this [URL]https://go.rapyd.net/accept-debit-cards-united-states?ads_adid=106930565448&ads_cmpid=10093024964&ads_creative=437750535355&ads_matchtype=b&ads_network=g&ads_targetid=kwd-911878545095&ttv=2&utm_campaign=Google%20Search%20-%20PPC&utm_medium=ppc&utm_source=adwords&utm_term=accept%20debit%20cards%20us[/URL].
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[QUOTE=CenTexCrash;2461872]Does anyone know if in USA there's a specific brand single use credit / debit card that SA will accept?[/QUOTE]I'm not sure what SA accepts, but a few years ago I used prepaid visa cards from TD bank for an online site and it worked without issue.
I personally don't worry about SA being on my CC statement, but if I did, I would open a checking account with no minimum balance, configure online statements to my monger email, put 200 bucks in there, and use that account for all of my mongering needs (SA, Uber, hotels, airbnb, etc). If you are going to dip your foot in the pool, then be ready to dive in. Anything less could potentially cause issues. If you have prying eyes, I would make sure to not have a debit card sent to your house.
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[QUOTE=CenTexCrash;2461872]Does anyone know if in USA there's a specific brand single use credit / debit card that SA will accept?[/QUOTE]BTW appears on your statements as w 8 tech.
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Migrant worker
I tried to kiss a migrant worker a few weeks ago, and she rejected me. This is after 6 months of very active flirting (a little in person, but mostly on text). So then, I finally decided to get a Premium Membership on SA. I haven't been active on SA for several years, but I decided to go for it again. However, to my shock, my payment was rejected and my account became suspended!
So, feeling utterly frustrated, I decided to look up some of my old contacts. Had some okay success. Three of them are former pros that are now trying to make a new and legitimate life for themselves in the age of covid. Had a good time with 2 out of 3 (the other one just wasn't into it anymore and rushed me). I went to some MPs and was finally able to get FS from two of my regulars. This is the first time that these two in particular offered FS to me. MP gals have been desperate to make money to make up for lost time.
But the main reason for my post is because I finally made progress on another migrant worker. Later 20's. Not a stunner, but she's pretty. She's bubbly, which makes her even prettier to me. She works at the front desk of an office building. I get coffee in her building. She always smiles at me. I got her contact over a year ago, and have been flirting with her ever since (a little in person, but mostly on text). I have been quite forward with her, asking if we could meet at her place. She kept brushing it off politely. And I kept telling her that I loved her. And she'd always giggle at this.
Anyway, a couple of days ago, to my shock, she said we could meet at her place. Keep in mind that I've been hounding her for OVER a year, so I was really shocked. I tried hard to maintain my excitement, because we all know that these things often don't pan out. However, to my surprise, it worked out. We barebacked for 2 hours and it was blissful.
And then, as I was leaving, I had to make the big decision on whether or not to give her any money. I was really stuck. Didn't know what to do. But then she mentioned that she was meeting her friend for dinner, and so I gave her $200 and said it was for her dinner. She paused, so she wasn't expecting it, but then she took it and thanked me.
I'm hoping she will end up being a regular SB. Migrant workers make about $900-$1,200 per month. So, this should be a win-win for the both of us.
Hmmm, now that I think of it, maybe the reason she finally changed her mind is because she was sad recently. I asked her why and we texted back and forth, and I actually comforted her. Maybe because of this, she started seeing me in a different light. Anyway, I digress.
This entire post was slightly off topic, but thanks for reading.
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2462569]I tried to kiss a migrant worker a few weeks ago, and she rejected me. This is after 6 months of very active flirting (a little in person, but mostly on text). So then, I finally decided to get a Premium Membership on SA. I haven't been active on SA for several years, but I decided to go for it again. However, to my shock, my payment was rejected and my account became suspended!
So, feeling utterly frustrated, I decided to look up some of my old contacts. Had some okay success. Three of them are former pros that are now trying to make a new and legitimate life for themselves in the age of covid. Had a good time with 2 out of 3 (the other one just wasn't into it anymore and rushed me). I went to some MPs and was finally able to get FS from two of my regulars. This is the first time that these two in particular offered FS to me. MP gals have been desperate to make money to make up for lost time.
But the main reason for my post is because I finally made progress on another migrant worker. Later 20's. Not a stunner, but she's pretty. She's bubbly, which makes her even prettier to me. She works at the front desk of an office building. I get coffee in her building. She always smiles at me. I got her contact over a year ago, and have been flirting with her ever since (a little in person, but mostly on text). I have been quite forward with her, asking if we could meet at her place. She kept brushing it off politely. And I kept telling her that I loved her. And she'd always giggle at this.
Anyway, a couple of days ago, to my shock, she said we could meet at her place. Keep in mind that I've been hounding her for OVER a year, so I was really shocked. I tried hard to maintain my excitement, because we all know that these things often don't pan out. However, to my surprise, it worked out. We barebacked for 2 hours and it was blissful..[/QUOTE]Well done! You were a gentleman and got rewarded. Yeah, money is a tricky issue. In the past, in such tricky situations, I would ask "do you mind if I give a small gift, it will make me happy, I would be honored if you please accept it". That way, you make it a situation where she feels like she is making you happy by accepting the gift.
I might have given a smaller amount though. 200 is almost a weekly wage for her. I would have given a $100 in that situation. $200 for 2 hours is the allowance in even less expensive US cities, and is arguably a bit high for China. But then again, it is up to each of us how much to give in such situations.
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2462569]I tried to kiss a migrant worker a few weeks ago, and she rejected me. This is after 6 months of very active flirting (a little in person, but mostly on text). So then, I finally decided to get a Premium Membership on SA. I haven't been active on SA for several years, but I decided to go for it again. However, to my shock, my payment was rejected and my account became suspended!
[/QUOTE]Good work. It does show how you need a variety of "irons in the fire" in order to bring enough opportunities to fruition.
In keeping with the topic of this forum, why do you think your account was cancelled and before that your payment denied?
I do think they have increased their site security and maybe they have notched up their car fraud settings ie less willing to tolerate multiple denied payments. For sure I think they have my regular IP address flagged as I have created and cancelled so many accounts over time.
Without giving away any specific details, did you use your regular spending card? Was it a new account? Was it a new seeking account you were paying? Anything special about your chosen email domain? Do you think it was your card issuer that denied the payment to seeking OR seeking that didn't process?
PP.
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[QUOTE=Pessimist;2462655]Well done! You were a gentleman and got rewarded. Yeah, money is a tricky issue. In the past, in such tricky situations, I would ask "do you mind if I give a small gift, it will make me happy, I would be honored if you please accept it". That way, you make it a situation where she feels like she is making you happy by accepting the gift.
I might have given a smaller amount though. 200 is almost a weekly wage for her. I would have given a $100 in that situation. $200 for 2 hours is the allowance in even less expensive US cities, and is arguably a bit high for China. But then again, it is up to each of us how much to give in such situations.[/QUOTE]This is going to sound a bit pathetic, but I actually feel a little sorry for her. Her dad got into an accident and died when she was a teenager, and her mom resents her for not being a boy (this is still a big deal in rural China, where she's from). And now, she works at least 60 hours a week and the best that she can do on the BF front is possibly me, a guy that cannot speak the language and is twice her age. I'm a sap for a sad story. Maybe we will fall hard for each other, and this will not end well. Oh well.
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Good And.
[QUOTE=Midwestern;2462704]This is going to sound a bit pathetic, but I actually feel a little sorry for her. Her dad got into an accident and died when she was a teenager, and her mom resents her for not being a boy (this is still a big deal in rural China, where she's from). And now, she works at least 60 hours a week and the best that she can do on the BF front is possibly me, a guy that cannot speak the language and is twice her age. I'm a sap for a sad story. Maybe we will fall hard for each other, and this will not end well. Oh well.[/QUOTE]First of all so awesome to show this persistence and be rewarded. That is sooooo awesome. Congrats. Even tho the $200 is above market you care about her and wanted to do it. That's how SB is supposed to be! When I was seeing my local girl during Covid even tho we agreed $300, I kept leaving her $500 because she was out of work (hairdresser and stripper — neither a good Covid gig! It felt good. It's not transactional.
Suggest you put $ in a card with a little note. Or just a smiley face if you can't do the Chinese. It's a gift that way more than a transaction. Will just make her more comfortable.
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[QUOTE=PilotPaul;2462688]
Without giving away any specific details, did you use your regular spending card? Was it a new account? Was it a new seeking account you were paying? Anything special about your chosen email domain? Do you think it was your card issuer that denied the payment to seeking OR seeking that didn't process?
PP.[/QUOTE]I haven't had a paid membership on SA in over 3 years. When I recently tried to pay for a membership, they still had my old credit card information, but the card had expired. So, I used a new credit card. Before I submitted my payment, one small odd thing that I noticed was that my payment was in RMB (Chinese currency). I live in China. Usually, when I make an online payment, the default currency is HK $, and this is because I use a VPN. Anyway, when I submitted my payment, I got a notification that my payment was refused and my account was suspended. I can't even browse the site for free anymore!!
So, why did I get rejected? Maybe because I originally signed up with SA in the USA, and now it's suspicious that I am renewing my premium membership from China. Or, maybe because I was using a new card. Or, maybe because my billing address had changed from one USA Address to another USA Address. Or, maybe it's because I am using VPN. I don't know. When I was informed that my account was suspended, they had a list of possible reasons for the suspension, and none of it applied to me.
Anyway, I was annoyed for a little while, but now I am over it.
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[QUOTE=Steve9696;2462706]First of all so awesome to show this persistence and be rewarded. That is sooooo awesome. Congrats. Even tho the $200 is above market you care about her and wanted to do it. That's how SB is supposed to be! When I was seeing my local girl during Covid even tho we agreed $300, I kept leaving her $500 because she was out of work (hairdresser and stripper neither a good Covid gig! It felt good. It's not transactional.
Suggest you put $ in a card with a little note. Or just a smiley face if you can't do the Chinese. It's a gift that way more than a transaction. Will just make her more comfortable.[/QUOTE]Another reason why I paid above market price is because I think she genuinely likes me. I was at her place for 2. 5 hours, and the only reason why I was there that long is because she wouldn't let me leave. As you always say, Steve, one of the main reasons why SA can be great is because the gals often actually really like us. I'm willing to show my appreciation for that, and I want to incentivise her as much as possible for her to stay in this relationship or this arrangement. These days, I'm willing to sleep with a 6 that is crazy about me over a 9 that is just doing it for the money.
Plus, the fact that I don't have pay for a hotel, and that she lives only about 15 minutes away from me, makes her more valuable to me, haha.
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2462707]I haven't had a paid membership on SA in over 3 years. When I recently tried to pay for a membership, they still had my old credit card information, but the card had expired. So, I used a new credit card. Before I submitted my payment, one small odd thing that I noticed was that my payment was in RMB (Chinese currency). I live in China. Usually, when I make an online payment, the default currency is HK $, and this is because I use a VPN. Anyway, when I submitted my payment, I got a notification that my payment was refused and my account was suspended. I can't even browse the site for free anymore!!
[/QUOTE]Thanks for the intel. I can imagine that there are enough signals in there that SA don't want to risk charge backs.
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Update on my migrant worker
Warning: This post contains no useful info.
After our first "date," which was just us bare backing at her home for a couple of hours, here is what happened afterwards. The next night, I asked her when I can see her again. She then goes off on a tirade asking me how many GFs I have, and, do I always go to girl's homes. I could tell she was really mad. I guess I acted like going to her place for sex was normal, but now that I think about it, it's totally not normal. Since she is an office worker and not a pro, I should have asked her out on a real date. I have been whoring so much, I don't even know what normal is anymore. It's weird though, because she must have known what she was signing up for when she invited me into her home. I could lie to her, to keep this relationship going, but I don't want to do that, because that will definitely not end well. So, I may never see her again. Oh well. I have the memories at least. But damn, she was ideal. Anyway, sorry to waste people's times.
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She's feeling guilty
[QUOTE=Midwestern;2463032]Warning: This post contains no useful info.
After our first "date," which was just us bare backing at her home for a couple of hours, here is what happened afterwards. The next night, I asked her when I can see her again. She then goes off on a tirade asking me how many GFs I have, and, do I always go to girl's homes. I could tell she was really mad. I guess I acted like going to her place for sex was normal, but now that I think about it, it's totally not normal. Since she is an office worker and not a pro, I should have asked her out on a real date. I have been whoring so much, I don't even know what normal is anymore. It's weird though, because she must have known what she was signing up for when she invited me into her home. I could lie to her, to keep this relationship going, but I don't want to do that, because that will definitely not end well. So, I may never see her again. Oh well. I have the memories at least. But damn, she was ideal. Anyway, sorry to waste people's times.[/QUOTE]She is feeling guilty and now taking out her guilt and anger on you. Which is complete BS. You can't be responsible for others reactions when it was a free will choice. It's not like you engaged in prostitution or exploitation. You gave her $200 because you cared for her, not because you were paying her for sex (that was free as is often is in a regular date). However now that she has accepted money from you she feels crappy and it causes cognitive dissonance for her.
Give it time, be courteous and say Hello, but don't engage in texting. There is a small chance once she's back to normal she would text you and say sorry.
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2463032]Warning: This post contains no useful info.
After our first "date," which was just us bare backing at her home for a couple of hours, here is what happened afterwards. The next night, I asked her when I can see her again. She then goes off on a tirade asking me how many GFs I have, and, do I always go to girl's homes. I could tell she was really mad. I guess I acted like going to her place for sex was normal, but now that I think about it, it's totally not normal. Since she is an office worker and not a pro, I should have asked her out on a real date. I have been whoring so much, I don't even know what normal is anymore. It's weird though, because she must have known what she was signing up for when she invited me into her home. I could lie to her, to keep this relationship going, but I don't want to do that, because that will definitely not end well. So, I may never see her again. Oh well. I have the memories at least. But damn, she was ideal. Anyway, sorry to waste people's times.[/QUOTE]Good report, not time waster. I think perhaps you shouldn't give money to someone like her after sex in the future. You need to disassociate sex and money. Instead, give her money to help her out on other occasions, like holidays, or new year when it is common for people to receive bonus.
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2463032]Warning: This post contains no useful info.
After our first "date," which was just us bare backing at her home for a couple of hours, here is what happened afterwards. The next night, I asked her when I can see her again. She then goes off on a tirade asking me how many GFs I have, and, do I always go to girl's homes. I could tell she was really mad. I guess I acted like going to her place for sex was normal, but now that I think about it, it's totally not normal. Since she is an office worker and not a pro, I should have asked her out on a real date. I have been whoring so much, I don't even know what normal is anymore. It's weird though, because she must have known what she was signing up for when she invited me into her home. I could lie to her, to keep this relationship going, but I don't want to do that, because that will definitely not end well. So, I may never see her again. Oh well. I have the memories at least. But damn, she was ideal. Anyway, sorry to waste people's times.[/QUOTE]I am not surprised. I have a couple of suggestions. A) It is not a lost cause yet with her. She did have sex with you after all. If you like her enough, persist. Make some apologies, explain to her your true intent and feeling, explain to her that you like her. If you give up after she blew up once, it confirms her biased judgement in her own mind that you treated her like a tute. But if you persist, she will know that you do like her. After all, a monger does move onto the next tute, while a real lover will persist and pacify after a lover's spat. Obviously, you are not lovers yet, this is not YET a true relationship, but it can become one, not a romantic one as you may not want such but more of a fuck buddy relationship. But even a fuck buddy relationship is still an ongoing relationship and involves give and take, someone blowing up occasionally while the other pacifies. I mean, look. I had girls act jealous and refuse to go with me in FKKs but they come back, they always do.
B) next time on, give a real gift. Of course that requires some preparation, but worth the effort. Instead of giving cash in a situation like this, give a non cash gift. A nice perfume, a nice purse or sweater etc. Clothes are tricky because if they don't fit, girls become irrational and take it personal. If you give a smaller size item, she will think she is fat and blow up; if you give oversized, she will say "you think I am this fat? But anyway, cash gift definitely plants the seed that it is a monetary transaction and she is treated as a tute. Non monetary gift is very natural and indicates you are a gentleman. Also, try the lines I suggested before "please accept my gift speech" - she will feel like she is pleasing you by accepting the gift.
P.S.: All the nasty assholes who will riff on my comment and say that I am acting like a love sick puppy can take a hike. MW's situation is a real world; non-transactional situation, and requires more tact than what the typical monger is used to, which is handing cash and negotiating for sex like he would for a taxi ride in Bucharest.
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Decide What you Want
[QUOTE=Midwestern;2463032]Warning: This post contains no useful info.
After our first "date," which was just us bare backing at her home for a couple of hours, here is what happened afterwards. The next night, I asked her when I can see her again. She then goes off on a tirade asking me how many GFs I have, and, do I always go to girl's homes. I could tell she was really mad. I guess I acted like going to her place for sex was normal, but now that I think about it, it's totally not normal. Since she is an office worker and not a pro, I should have asked her out on a real date. I have been whoring so much, I don't even know what normal is anymore. It's weird though, because she must have known what she was signing up for when she invited me into her home. I could lie to her, to keep this relationship going, but I don't want to do that, because that will definitely not end well. So, I may never see her again. Oh well. I have the memories at least. But damn, she was ideal. Anyway, sorry to waste people's times.[/QUOTE]Agree with others. No time wasting here. We are all here to learn and give back. I think the responses are spot on. It felt good and right to give her cash. But it made her feel cheap like she just had sex for money. She probably needed it so she took it and now she is kicking herself and feeling ashamed.
In Nanpa they have a thing called ASD anti-sl*t-defense. Basically girls don't want to be seen as it think of themselves as sl*ts. So you have to help them here not make it worse.
Try to distance any gifts from the act. We all eat meat but we keep the transaction at a distance. Surely none of us wants to pay a guy to kill a cow in front of us. We want the paying as far from the killing as possible. Same applies here.
And I don't think she was expecting any money it was a true date! If that's what U want (with the ensuing drama as well) then surely you can get her back. Yes of course you have seen other girls in the past but right now she is the one you are interested in. She just wants to be assured she's not a sl*t.
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2463032]I have been whoring so much, I don't even know what normal is anymore.[/QUOTE]Good feedback and another experience to build your MO.
When I started writing some notes on how many different women I had slept with and different experiences I had my list was 300 different women. Maybe you are similar.
Many of these girl that we contact may be orders of magnitude less with some only having had a few 'serious' boyfriends. There are girls that we meet whom are also professional mongers in their own way but that's a different story.
I think in both cases this is a plausible deniability on her part. No need to get caught up in the game.
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Thanks for the great suggestions and insights
Yeah, I'm not going to give up on her. She had sex with me because she likes me. That by itself makes her very valuable to me. Plus, she is young and pretty, she lives nearby, has her own place, and is willing to bareback.
Maybe I'll do some lunch dates and some cuddling before I try to get her back into the sack. Eventually, though, I want this to end up as an "arrangement. " I don't want her thinking that this could lead to marriage. And I think the main way to signal that is to give her cash. This will let her know that this is something in-between prostitution and a real relationship. Which is what we all want from an arrangement to begin with, right? BUT, the truth is, I really am giving her cash to help her out, not just for the sex. She mentioned to me once that she can barely make ends meet with her current job, and so she's been studying to become a florist (I have no idea how a florist makes more money than a receptionist). So, as suggested, whenever I give her cash, I will tell her it is to help her and that it makes me happy to help her.
I still cannot believe myself. I can't believe I just showed up at her door, took a shower, and started making out with her and then moved to DATY. She kept saying, "what are you doing?" But I just kept moving it along. With sex in multiple positions. I just replicated what I do when I visit an incall! And then, before I leave, I give her money. FLOL, man!! Wtf is wrong with me?! Just LOL, man. I must be really jaded. On her side, my inner Sigmund Freud is suggesting to me that because her dad died 10 years ago, when she was a teenager, she didn't want to disappoint me or say no, because maybe I am some sort of father figure to her or something.
Anyway, small update: I keep texting her. But she only replies with a smilely or a hug emoji. That's it. She's usually very chatty on text, because her job is incredibly boring. But now she is keeping it short. More than half the time, she just ignores my text. Yesterday, I offered to bring her lunch, and she just texted back with two words: "don't need. " And then I asked, "how about some fruit?" And she just texted back, "no. " But I will persist. I have nothing to lose now.
Thanks again for the encouragement and advice.
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2463300]
Anyway, small update: I keep texting her. But she only replies with a smilely or a hug emoji. That's it. She's usually very chatty on text, because her job is incredibly boring. But now she is keeping it short. More than half the time, she just ignores my text. Yesterday, I offered to bring her lunch, and she just texted back with two words: "don't need. " And then I asked, "how about some fruit?" And she just texted back, "no. " But I will persist. I have nothing to lose now.
[/QUOTE]You have your 'opportunity cost' of not being free to put your attention to other hotties. If I'm getting those text replies then its time for me to move on. While it's true it's a low cost to send a few text messages, you could be putting that same cost into the next shinny object.
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[QUOTE=Steve9696;2463258]
Try to distance any gifts from the act. We all eat meat but we keep the transaction at a distance. Surely none of us wants to pay a guy to kill a cow in front of us. We want the paying as far from the killing as possible. Same applies here.
She just wants to be assured she's not a sl*t.[/QUOTE]Spot on. Great analogy. Applies to a certain situation I'm facing at work.
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[QUOTE=PilotPaul;2463306]You have your 'opportunity cost' of not being free to put your attention to other hotties. If I'm getting those text replies then its time for me to move on. While it's true it's a low cost to send a few text messages, you could be putting that same cost into the next shinny object.[/QUOTE]Agreed. Write it off Midwestern, and move on. Just my $0. 02.
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2463032]Warning: This post contains no useful info.
After our first "date," which was just us bare backing at her home for a couple of hours, here is what happened afterwards. The next night, I asked her when I can see her again. She then goes off on a tirade asking me how many GFs I have, and, do I always go to girl's homes. I could tell she was really mad. I guess I acted like going to her place for sex was normal, but now that I think about it, it's totally not normal. Since she is an office worker and not a pro, I should have asked her out on a real date. I have been whoring so much, I don't even know what normal is anymore. It's weird though, because she must have known what she was signing up for when she invited me into her home. I could lie to her, to keep this relationship going, but I don't want to do that, because that will definitely not end well. So, I may never see her again. Oh well. I have the memories at least. But damn, she was ideal. Anyway, sorry to waste people's times.[/QUOTE]I think she invited you to her place to get to know you and things went a bit further than expected. She did like you. She probably did not know when to say stop. You are a foreigner and that comes with a reputation of playing the field and leaving. Her friends may also influence her. Plus, there is potential embarrassment and loss of face for being used. You need to show your sincerity. Instead of offering, just send her a gift with an apology. It has to be right. Not cheap, but not so expensive that it looks like you are buying her. If you come up with a story of having a hard life when you were young and the money was to help her family because you have been there, that may go a long way. You should also expect a few meet ups before sex again and you will have to ask instead of assume.
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2463300] She mentioned to me once that she can barely make ends meet with her current job, and so she's been studying to become a florist (I have no idea how a florist makes more money than a receptionist). So, as suggested, whenever I give her cash, I will tell her it is to help her and that it makes me happy to help her.[/QUOTE]You know that sometimes people don't make good education investment decision. Maybe she is thinking about owning her own shop.
Cash is much more common than gift in that part of the world. Even in traditional marriage, male side will give female side a predetermined sum of money. You can check with your local friends to find out when bonus is given out. I think you just passed a significant one which is the dragon boat festival. Next possible one is the mid-autumn festival.
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[QUOTE=PilotPaul;2463306]You have your 'opportunity cost' of not being free to put your attention to other hotties. If I'm getting those text replies then its time for me to move on. While it's true it's a low cost to send a few text messages, you could be putting that same cost into the next shinny object.[/QUOTE]The 'opportunity cost' is still small compared to what he has invested. And the return is great based on what WM said. So I think it is far from the point that it is not worth it.
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[QUOTE=Nounce;2463473]The 'opportunity cost' is still small compared to what he has invested. And the return is great based on what WM said. So I think it is far from the point that it is not worth it.[/QUOTE]Opportunity cost has to include the frustration of dealing with a drama queen. Opportunity cost when you send a text is = sending text + time wasted on expecting a reply + time wasted on analyzing the response + time wasted on figuring out what to say next + time / peace of mind wasted in feeling bad about the whole thing. Wash rinse repeat. And pretty soon becomes a headache.
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[QUOTE=SonicBoom1;2463503]Opportunity cost has to include the frustration of dealing with a drama queen. Opportunity cost when you send a text is = sending text + time wasted on expecting a reply + time wasted on analyzing the response + time wasted on figuring out what to say next + time / peace of mind wasted in feeling bad about the whole thing. Wash rinse repeat. And pretty soon becomes a headache.[/QUOTE]What may be true for the average may not be true for an individual case. Every day is not hot every summer.
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What do you claim is your family situation?
After a few dates or once you are in an arrangement, the topic of whether you're married is usually asked, usually in casual conversation.
What is the optimal answer?
My friend who is on SA says that it is best is to say that you're divorced with one kid. This way, we look like normal guys. This is for guys in their 40's and 50's.
I used to say that I was divorced and single, to incentivise GFE. In the short run, it does work, but now I think the best thing is to tell them that you're married. Maybe she'll be disappointed at first, but it's best for the long run arrangement. So that she knows it's just an arrangement, and there is no disappointment later.
However, I am still torn. Tell them you're married or tell them you are divorced and single? Obviously, it doesn't matter what the truth is.
Any other opinions?
This is obviously is moot for one-offs or someone that you only will see a few times. This only applies to long term.
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2464128]
However, I am still torn. Tell them you're married or tell them you are divorced and single? Obviously, it doesn't matter what the truth is.
Any other opinions?
[/QUOTE]I am on the side of advising I am married as being the best strategy. Most girls in the SA business understand that the majority of guys on that site that can never host are most likely married. As are many of the women that don't host.
I have tried 'separated' with 'kid at home' which is a good cover for not hosting and not staying over at night. This makes the girl less cautious when out and about. I did juggle one girl for two years that I was 'separated' and it was stressful.
The girl that knows you are married will select restaurant tables that are obscured. She may even declare a her patch of town where she won't expect to find you and she won't venture into your 'patch'. The girl will also avoid calling you at family time or checking your phone or making too many enquires.
I have tried 'divorced' but I find that opens up discussions about what happened? The future, her story etc etc. Not a topic I like.
The girls that I am still rooting / friends / dinners with now I told from Day 1 that I was married. The girls that turn off at that point will have been a problem down the track.
The other thing is if the girl knows you are married and you then tell her you need to breakup so you can concentrate on your wife. The girl never comes back after that.
The secret of a +25 years of marriage is to choose wisely.
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[QUOTE=PilotPaul;2464156]I am on the side of advising I am married as being the best strategy..[/QUOTE]Yeah, I believe this is the best option too, but as soon as I say I'm married, then she starts to act like a pro. She treats dates as appointments, and she pretends to like me. And this defeats the purpose for being on SA, or having an arrangement, to begin with. When they think I'm single, it's like having a real GF, which is why I use SA to begin with. A lot of girls go onto SA to find rich and successful BFs. But don't get me wrong. I've gotten burned going the "single" route, which is why saying I am married is perhaps the best route in the long run, especially for making the inevitable exit down the road a smooth exit.
Another option is to just say "let's keep it a mystery. ".
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2464208]Yeah, I believe this is the best option too, but as soon as I say I'm married, then she starts to act like a pro. She treats dates as appointments, and she pretends to like me. And this defeats the purpose for being on SA, or having an arrangement, to begin with. When they think I'm single, it's like having a real GF, which is why I use SA to begin with. A lot of girls go onto SA to find rich and successful BFs. But don't get me wrong. I've gotten burned going the "single" route, which is why saying I am married is perhaps the best route in the long run, especially for making the inevitable exit down the road a smooth exit.
Another option is to just say "let's keep it a mystery. ".[/QUOTE]I have also tried "Unhappily married' and no sex on the home front. The mystery part stokes their inquisitive nous and I don't want that.
Another that worked for me in Philippines ie "Yes, I'm married in my home country and I'm single here". That usually got a laugh and the end of the topic.
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Married and.
[QUOTE=PilotPaul;2464225]I have also tried "Unhappily married' and no sex on the home front. The mystery part stokes their inquisitive nous and I don't want that.
Another that worked for me in Philippines ie "Yes, I'm married in my home country and I'm single here". That usually got a laugh and the end of the topic.[/QUOTE]Love the "married at home but single when traveling" line. I find it rather annoying that SA doesn't provide a reasonable selection list that includes "married but not dead". Oh well.
So on this topic I am always honest. In general I try to be honest with the girls. Seems to pay off in the long run because there are no surprises or missed expectations. Actually I always have sex with my wedding ring on. LOL. So no lack of transparency here!
My second SB date ever ended up a sex-fail as a result of my status. But that was only because I was a newbie. Could totally have closed the deal now that I have the basics of game. She knew going in that I was married and was Ok with it. But when we first kissed at the restaurant bar she looked pensive and when I asked what she was thinking she said "I just realized I've never kissed a married man before!" We still continued our date and later made out at the rooftop bar and at her car. She was totally worked up at that point nearly eating my face and grabbing my package. But duh being totally unskilled at the time I let the moment pass. Oh well live and learn. She's the one that got away.
The other funny one was a girl that knew full well I was married and we met up near my home town. She came in pants and a frumpy jacket and large glasses. Total cold fish while drinking and having some snacks. When she was at the bathroom I regrouped in my head. Met it head on and said it seemed she didn't have chemistry with me and she's like "no I really like you and think you are super handsome. I just didn't want to get you in trouble in public. Is it OK if I kiss you?" (Yes). "want to come back to my apartment?" (Yes). And she turns out to be a tatted up stripper with a banging body underneath all that. Just was being nice! LOL.
Never a dull moment in SA land.
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[QUOTE=Steve9696;2464246]. But when we first kissed at the restaurant bar she looked pensive and when I asked what she was thinking she said "I just realized I've never kissed a married man before!" We still continued our date and later made out at the rooftop bar and at her car. She was totally worked up at that point nearly eating my face and grabbing my package. But duh being totally unskilled at the time I let the moment pass. Oh well live and learn. She's the one that got away.[/QUOTE]She's probably kissed and fucked dozens of married (or partnered) guys before. Just they weren't honest with her.
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Different Strokes.
[QUOTE=Midwestern;2463300]Yeah, I'm not going to give up on her. She had sex with me because she likes me. That by itself makes her very valuable to me. Plus, she is young and pretty, she lives nearby, has her own place, and is willing to bareback.
Maybe I'll do some lunch dates and some cuddling before I try to get her back into the sack. Eventually, though, I want this to end up as an "arrangement. " I don't want her thinking that this could lead to marriage. And I think the main way to signal that is to give her cash. This will let her know that this is something in-between prostitution and a real relationship. Which is what we all want from an arrangement to begin with, right? BUT, the truth is, I really am giving her cash to help her out, not just for the sex. She mentioned to me once that she can barely make ends meet with her current job, and so she's been studying to become a florist (I have no idea how a florist makes more money than a receptionist). So, as suggested, whenever I give her cash, I will tell her it is to help her and that it makes me happy to help her.
I still cannot believe myself. I can't believe I just showed up at her door, took a shower, and started making out with her and then moved to DATY...[/QUOTE]Obviously you really like this girl and shouldn't give up on her, but equally you cannot let this misstep (if it was one) change the basic dynamic. DO NOT settle for non-sexual dates. That sets a terrible precedent and shifts the power to her. The one advantage mongers have is we have realized that we have power in these relationships and we discover that that works pretty well with a lot of women. It is fine to keep your foot on the gas when you are on a date with a girl. Make it clear that you expect to get to the finish line on the first (or worst-case, the second) date. I make it clear to my GFs (who are all some variation of SG) that I expect sex every date and they must plan for that. Like we can't go out partying until late then she decides she has to go home. That only happens once.
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Yeah No
[QUOTE=GentlemanTravel;2464268]She's probably kissed and fucked dozens of married (or partnered) guys before. Just they weren't honest with her.[/QUOTE]Yeah no. This was her first SB date ever (and my second). She's a total civvie and just naive about the whole thing. And please don't tell me she was playing me. I can tell the difference.
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[QUOTE=Steve9696;2464274]Yeah no. This was her first SB date ever (and my second). She's a total civvie and just naive about the whole thing. And please don't tell me she was playing me. I can tell the difference.[/QUOTE]You misunderstand my meaning. I wasn't suggesting she is a pro or anything. I just mean, even in ordinary dating, she probably dated other guys who were in other relationships, without knowing it. You were more honest about it.
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[QUOTE=GentlemanTravel;2464333]You misunderstand my meaning. I wasn't suggesting she is a pro or anything. I just mean, even in ordinary dating, she probably dated other guys who were in other relationships, without knowing it. You were more honest about it.[/QUOTE]That's the way I read your initial comment also.
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2464208]Yeah, I believe this is the best option too, but as soon as I say I'm married, then she starts to act like a pro. She treats dates as appointments, and she pretends to like me. And this defeats the purpose for being on SA, or having an arrangement, to begin with. When they think I'm single, it's like having a real GF, which is why I use SA to begin with. A lot of girls go onto SA to find rich and successful BFs. But don't get me wrong. I've gotten burned going the "single" route, which is why saying I am married is perhaps the best route in the long run, especially for making the inevitable exit down the road a smooth exit.
Another option is to just say "let's keep it a mystery. ".[/QUOTE]Interesting perspectives.
These days, I personally create a persona that is 85% real and I don't break character. My persona is divorced with no kids, really busy with work and other activities, and needs to travel often for work and personal. Most of this is true, and it has to be in order to remain in character more easily. I haven't hit my 40's yet, so it is mostly believable that there is "still time" to settle down. As I have mentioned before, I guard my identity pretty closely and for good reason (and being in a certain industry for work makes me more paranoid, just saying) . It hasn't happened to me, but I have heard stories of SBs losing their minds and threatening to expose their SD to their families, etc. If a SB snapped on me, any identifying info she has about me is just not quite enough. It's like getting into an accident and only getting the first 10 digits of the other driver's 15 digit insurance number. You have some info, but if you call their insurance company, you don't have enough.
After chatting and spending time with her, she may know what my hobbies are, where I like to go, what I like to eat, where I'm from (in general), where I like to hang out in certain countries, and that is actually who I am. Yet, anything identifying is missing.
I have only had SBs out of town, but I have had consistency with them due to my high frequency of travel. To the married question, I usually say, "not anymore. I'm happy to be divorced, I happy to be rid of that kind of person in my life, I'm happy to not talk about or consider her anymore, and I'm even more happy to be here with you, around such positive energy". That shuts down the conversation pretty quickly and it's all true. Works every time.
02.
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No Recaptcha
So one of the things that USED TO really piss me off on SA was having to do the Recaptcha thing every time I logged in. OMG I am NOT a robot for the thousandth time.
A recent SA survey I mentioned this. And a week later it was gone. Coincidence? Were any of you having to do the I'm Not a Robot thing and it went away? Either way super happy it's gone.
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Yeah it was a major pain. It was particularly painful on my iPad; would keep me in the loop for 5 to 8 times even when I didn't make any mistakes. For some reason, it was a bit better on the smartphone and was always pretty clean on laptop. Anyway, yeah I noticed it stopped asking me that nonsense for a few days now. Was not aware of any survey though. Perhaps because I didn't renew my membership a few weeks ago. I will renew when covid is behind me and ready to meet new girls.
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Miami Pre-Covid
Since no one is having sex in Miami anytime soon thought you might enjoy this FR from last summer. It was pretty early in my journey but went very well. One of the few times I didn't agree a number going in. I found later that can lead to missed expectations. So I try to always settle on gift ahead of time now.
Started surfing SA several weeks in advanced. Unlike other girls Lucy was not up for much pre-meet text chatting. Pretty much just said she was willing to meet for drinks and dancing. We never discussed a price for the sex part tho obviously it's implied sex will likely occur. Since I was going to Brazil I was comfortable just playing it by ear. If the in-person price was too high I would just skip the sex and not pay that pricing level.
She sent some pics and she looked pretty hot but I had more chemistry with other girls. But Some other girls fizzled so I thought what the heck.
I got the impression she is a part timer and she is. She works as an office manager at a construction company. She has an undergrad in finance but went back to school for 2 years to get an electronic drafting degree. She's Colombian and has a smoking sexy accent.
So we text back and forth and agreed to meet in downtown Miami at 11 ish at a place I found called Blackbird. She lives a half hour away and I sent an Uber. (I have a Steve Uber acct). This is great because I could track her progress and see when she arrived.
When I saw her pull up I went outside to meet her. Wow. Waaaay prettier in person. She was wearing a crop top and hot pants and spike fuck-me heels. Really sexy. Wow. Hot hot girl with a dynamite smile and body. Perfect be cup tits I will later discover.
So Blackbird has a great vibe but is pretty empty on a Wednesday night. They have a free pool table so we played quite a bit. She is pretty horrible but it was fun and things got more and more cuddly as the night progressed. She is drinking Jack and Coke like me and matching me glass for glass (I got one head start while she was ubering).
She keeps breaking into sexy dancing at the pool table or the bar and I join her. But when I suggest we take it out on the sparsely populated dance floor she is embarrassed and says maybe if there are more people. So I ask if she knows somewhere and she does. So it's off to El Patio in Wynnwood -- a Latin club. Oh this is when it helps to have a local. When we are at blackbird we had just ordered a round when we decided to bail. I thought we'd have to cancel but she says we'll just get them to go. Sure enough they put our JandC in cups and we party in our Uber all the way to El Patio. Nice!
And we arrive El Patio. Holy holy fuck. She was so sweet to tolerate my lame choice because El Patio is off the hook. Easily 2-300 people packing a wild and vibrant dancefloor. Simply epic.
We make our way to the bar and order two Jack and Cokes and a Hookah. Sorta shocked by the $105 bill (But I am partying at the hottest club in Miami with the hottest girl in the club! (My Blackbird bill was $100. I think we had 4 rounds.).
El Patio is a ton of fun. We are dancing and smoking Hookah and she even has us do two shots in addition to the rest. This is obviously a mistake as it makes it super hard to cum later. But in the moment it is fun.
The dancing gets very latin and sexy where she will be booty shaking and turn around and back into me. And of course I reciprocate with conjoined hip thrusting and simulated sex on the floor. She surely felt my growing stiffy. 😋 Looking over her shoulder and smiling. Uau!
So we are ready to take it back to the room and I whisper that I will want to give her a gift and did she have something in mind. She says $400. Which honestly is reasonable for the market but I had hoped to get off for $300 originally (though I upped it to $400 when she entered blackbird).
So I used MMs line and said "that makes me sad because that is the I don't want to go with you price. I thought I liked me!" (This is a PRICELESS line. So perfect) She laughed and whispered back something that was either $200 or $300 and I was ok with either so I said let's go.
Back in the room it was a solid but not top experience. We started making out and she is a solid but not exceptional kisser and took it to the bed fully clothed. We lose her clothes pretty quickly and I get on top kissing her hard. I find she has perfect be cup tits which I start working by hand and then with mouth. She seems to like this as the smell of young pussy begins to fill the air. But when I go to go down on her she stops me and says she's very sweaty. I say it doesn't matter but still it's not happening and that's a bit disappointing.
So I work her a bit by hand. She is wet but not sloppy like you might expect from the wonderful fragrance filling the room. She rolls me on my back and only does very little BJ before wanting to move to cowgirl. I do think she's in a bit of a hurry as it's now 3 AM and she has an 830 flight. We struggle a bit with my Okamotos but eventually get me suited up.
She has a GREAT feeling pussy in all positions and we do Mish then doggie then Mish then legs closed doggie. I like the fact that she kisses in mish but she tends to break away before I am ready. It's taking me a long time so she says baby I think you have drank too much. This is disappointing to hear her say -- could have kept on trying. But she is right.
So I ask her to turn on the light and masturbate for me. Wow. This is pretty great. Even though she doesn't reach O She has a perfect pussy. Just a touch of lips but not too much. And unlike some Latinas where the pussy is more a gray shade due to some black heritage, hers is a perfect flesh pink. OMG. Beautiful.
So she starts working her clit in circles as I jack off kneeling on the bed. She is starting to writhe and really get into it so much so she starts to cover her face with her hand and then the pillow -. She's embarrassed how she looks. This is a real girl thing, not a pro so it's very sexy.
Takes a bit but watching her hand work that perfect pussy and that nearly perfect body writhing back and forth and I shoot some solid shots, blocking most of it with my hand -- feeling guilty about dropping a load on the perfect Hyatt bed spread! LOL. Wow. Glad to tug one out at that hour and drunkenness. It was a labor of love and actually felt great after all that lead up.
Of course we then part ways and she heads off in her Uber. I did drop some hints about her flying to me in another city and she was visibly excited. But she'd have to up her game in the bedroom to vault over Maria (unknown bedroom game but real passion) and Valentina (also unknown but will find out Saturday and since she tends more to the pro side I think it will be good). After Saturday if Lucy remains a top girl I will text her and let her know the areas she could improve if she wants to road trip with me.
It's funny because I can see the Seeking Arrangement spectrum in my three current hotties (at that time):
Maria -- Just a real world girl exploring. She really likes me but is completely new to this game. When we talked yesterday and I said I might like to fly her to NY she said "you'd do that for me?" Like she is genuinely surprised anyone would like her this much and want to spend money on her.
Lucy -- Real world girl but some experience in the game. Has a price. Minimizes BJ work. But has a real job and commitments. Likes to party and knows how to mix in getting paid to do so.
Valentina -- Even though we are playing the BFGF game I can tell she tends to the pro side and is just very good at all the surrounding storyline. This is fine with me. As long as it feels real. We will see in person on Saturday.
So that is the Lucy scoop. Glad I took the extra in Miami. Stunning girl, bubbly personality. Ton of fun in the club. And some things to work on in the sack. I will have to train her up! 😋.
Post note: When I was in Brazil she hit me up for rent money. A bit disappointing. I said no of course.
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[QUOTE=Steve9696;2464710]
The dancing gets very latin and sexy where she will be booty shaking and turn around and back into me. And of course I reciprocate with conjoined hip thrusting and simulated sex on the floor. She surely felt my growing stiffy. Looking over her shoulder and smiling.[/QUOTE]I think reasons why SA works so well for you is because you seem to be a good looking guy, a good dancer, and you got game.
When I joined SA 6 years ago, I had a lot of that going for me too. And so, I too got a lot out of SA.
The SBs on there told me that a lot of SDs don't care about their appearance, or are assholes, or they are not normal guys (whatever that means).
The moral is, if you try to look your best, try to have fun, try to act like a normal guy, and try to treat the gals well, then you should get a lot out of SA.
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2464775]
The moral is, if you try to look your best, try to have fun, try to act like a normal guy, and try to treat the gals well, then you should get a lot out of SA.[/QUOTE]That's an interesting statement. So why pay money? As the old saying goes we don't pay money to get them into our bed, we pay them well so that they leave and have no recourse. .
PP.
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[QUOTE=PilotPaul;2464991]That's an interesting statement. So why pay money? As the old saying goes we don't pay money to get them into our bed, we pay them well so that they leave and have no recourse. .
PP.[/QUOTE]With money, we own their vagina. Without money, they own their vagina.
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2465001]With money, we own their vagina. Without money, they own their vagina.[/QUOTE]I love it, MW!!
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2464775]The SBs on there told me that a lot of SDs don't care about their appearance, or are assholes, or they are not normal guys (whatever that means).[/QUOTE]I had one SB or really more like a selective hooker I saw who got on SA and showed me her responses. There were a ton of them, but we agreed on the two that were real. There were like a hundred bullshit artists on there trying to get laid for nothing.
[QUOTE=Midwestern;2464775]The moral is, if you try to look your best, try to have fun, try to act like a normal guy, and try to treat the gals well, then you should get a lot out of SA.[/QUOTE]
I agree, and I would add that you have to screen well and be disciplined. If you let yourself get walked all over, then you are going to be taken advantage of and be bitter. I think you also have to have the discipline to walk away from a bad deal and say "next".
I remember something one surprisingly wise and intelligent stripper told me about strip clubs, "Stop hanging out at the strip clubs. Those women are second best, and you deserve better than that. If you ever want to settle for second best, those bitches are always going to be there."
The same thing is true with the hookers on SA. Those bitches are always going to be there. The hard part is finding one with character.
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8 photos
Update on this Covid world
One of the good fucked up parts of my life I do not understand is that I am like literally the only person I know doing better money wise in this Covid world, and it has had its ups and downs but mostly it has been up. I have joked that Covid has been berry, berry good to me.
Some thought that Covid would create a buyer's market for SDs, but in reality, the USA has been printing up so much money and handing out via unemployment that some are doing better now not working than working. This is not the case in other countries. I had focused on Colombia because I had loved the women there. Since Covid started, I underestimated the political influence with Covid and where countries and pols matched who can restrict their citizens the most meant that they cared the most. The irony about the International media which has been cheering on the restrictions seems to heap praise on countries that massively restrict and belittle countries that don't. Anyway, I had four SB prospects in Colombia, and two were more than SB prospects, but the third and fourth were on the fence pre-Covid. They have now signed off SA and even those two are begging me to play with her remote control vibrator. Then there are three others that I have not even physically met: one of whom has already confessed her love for me. All told I spend about $1000 on these seven women, and we text all the time. I know that I am going to have to pare them down, but I am going to have a hard time choosing. Of the four I have been with, three are gorgeous and the other may be the best lover I have had. The quality of women available post Covid has been unreal in Colombia.
I thought we Americans could go to Brazil so I started texting women there. I ran into one who spoke English and has an American visa. She may be the hottest of all. She too has fallen for me via texts. I am finding again and again women just desperate for support, someone to talk to, someone there for them. This one is crazy hot. She is another one with like no body fat, and she dances like a Laker Girl and seriously she could be one. I am going to be meeting her in Mexico (Thank God!) in 2 weeks, and I have not been this excited to meet someone in a long time.
Still, I was dying for some last month, and the week I had taken off for Colombia was upon me so I tried Mexico. Suffice it to say that unlike all the other cities in Mexico City, Mexico City delivered. I had a hard time finding hot women there before. This time, however, I had sex with seven different hot women, four of them I would call 10's. In my two previous trips, I had women who were no better than 8's in CDMX. It looks like two are keepers.
The downside to Covid is that everyone freaks out about it. My favorite Mexico City girl could not meet me in Cancun when I was there because she had a panic attack. I reached out to two other women last minute and both of them came. It didn't work out well because one of the women learned her family was hit by Covid, and the other one wanted a better deal if that girl was leaving. Sigh.
Still, the girl who was supposed to come has promised to make it up to me. I asked her if she would spend the night with me, something she was reluctant to do before and she excitedly said yes.
All four of the Mexican 10s had jobs and were not available pre-Covid. So yeah, the travel restrictions stink and the panic people have with traveling and a few have being intimate sucks too, but the quality of women out there is unreal.
Here are a few examples of what is out there. I have been with all these women save 2, and I think there are women just as high quality out there as these are.
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Supply is up, but are their prices up too?
[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2465064]Anyway, I had four SB prospects in Colombia, and two were more than SB prospects, but the third and fourth were on the fence pre-Covid. They have now signed off SA and even those two are begging me to play with her remote control vibrator. Then there are three others that I have not even physically met: one of whom has already confessed her love for me. All told I spend about $1000 on these seven women, and we text all the time. I know that I am going to have to pare them down, but I am going to have a hard time choosing. Of the four I have been with, three are gorgeous and the other may be the best lover I have had. The quality of women available post Covid has been unreal in Colombia.
[/QUOTE]I am experiencing similar to you. I'm an American in Shanghai. In the past month, I had sex with 7 gals, and 5 were first timers. Several were MP gals that had previously only offered HJ or BBBJ, but now they are willing to do FS for the extra tip. The gals are all desperate to make up for 5 months of lost wages.
Another several were girls that were ex-pros and got real jobs, but because they couldn't work during the shutdown, they started contacting me again, asking if we could rekindle the old flames.
In fact, since our reopening, I have gotten contacted by so many pros and ex-pros, that I haven't had time to see them all yet.
The only drawback is that prices have also gone up, to make up for lost time. For example, pre-covid, the going tip rate for FS in an MP was anywhere from $75 to $120. Now, they are begging for a $150 tip. The incall gals are also asking if I could pay them more than the usual amount. So, for me, it's a buyers market, but a weird one, because while the supply is huge and willing, the price is also up. It counters basic economics! LOL. Has anyone else noticed that prices are rising in the age of Covid?
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2464775]
The moral is, if you try to look your best, try to have fun, try to act like a normal guy, and try to treat the gals well, then you should get a lot out of SA.[/QUOTE]Agreed. The unique difference of dating v / s SA is that in dating even if you do all those things, there is no guarantee of success. In SA if you're a decent person. In looks and attitude. The world opens for you.
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[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2465064]One of the good fucked up parts of my life I do not understand is that I am like literally the only person I know doing better money wise in this Covid world, and it has had its ups and downs but mostly it has been up. I have joked that Covid has been berry, berry good to me.
Some thought that Covid would create a buyer's market for SDs, but in reality, the USA has been printing up so much money and handing out via unemployment that some are doing better now not working than working. This is not the case in other countries. I had focused on Colombia because I had loved the women there. Since Covid started, I underestimated the political influence with Covid and where countries and pols matched who can restrict their citizens the most meant that they cared the most. The irony about the International media which has been cheering on the restrictions seems to heap praise on countries that massively restrict and belittle countries that don't. Anyway, I had four SB prospects in Colombia, and two were more than SB prospects, but the third and fourth were on the fence pre-Covid. They have now signed off SA and even those two are begging me to play with her remote control vibrator. Then there are three others that I have not even physically met: one of whom has already confessed her love for me. All told I spend about $1000 on these seven women, and we text all the time. I know that I am going to have to pare them down, but I am going to have a hard time choosing. Of the four I have been with, three are gorgeous and the other may be the best lover I have had. The quality of women available post Covid has been unreal in Colombia.
I thought we Americans could go to Brazil so I started texting women there. I ran into one who spoke English and has an American visa. She may be the hottest of all. She too has fallen for me via texts. I am finding again and again women just desperate for support, someone to talk to, someone there for them. This one is crazy hot. She is another one with like no body fat, and she dances like a Laker Girl and seriously she could be one. I am going to be meeting her in Mexico (Thank God!) in 2 weeks, and I have not been this excited to meet someone in a long time..[/QUOTE]Damn I need to re-up my subscription for SA.
Damn fine chicas!
The Tall Man.
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Daddy owns it
[QUOTE=Midwestern;2465001]With money, we own their vagina. Without money, they own their vagina.[/QUOTE]This is one of the fun lines I use with my SB's / GF's, as I am getting ready to fuck her:
"Who owns your pussy?
"Daddy owns my pussy!
It always gives me an added thrill!
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The SB asked me for extra allowance; I asked for extra time to be spent and they have all the time in the world now.
[QUOTE=Midwestern;2465088]I am experiencing similar to you. I'm an American in Shanghai. In the past month, I had sex with 7 gals, and 5 were first timers. Several were MP gals that had previously only offered HJ or BBBJ, but now they are willing to do FS for the extra tip. The gals are all desperate to make up for 5 months of lost wages.
Another several were girls that were ex-pros and got real jobs, but because they couldn't work during the shutdown, they started contacting me again, asking if we could rekindle the old flames.
In fact, since our reopening, I have gotten contacted by so many pros and ex-pros, that I haven't had time to see them all yet.
The only drawback is that prices have also gone up, to make up for lost time. For example, pre-covid, the going tip rate for FS in an MP was anywhere from $75 to $120. Now, they are begging for a $150 tip. The incall gals are also asking if I could pay them more than the usual amount. So, for me, it's a buyers market, but a weird one, because while the supply is huge and willing, the price is also up. It counters basic economics! LOL. Has anyone else noticed that prices are rising in the age of Covid?[/QUOTE]
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A Bust but WTF
[QUOTE=Steve9696;2460783]I thought I was a pro at this but the latest girl I am pursuing has me puzzled. I am having a helluva time finding someone to my liking in a rather small US city. Found a girl who is very pretty (body don't know) like model level face. I don't think a pro would work this city. And in fact P411 offers only three pros and all are past their prime. So unlikely a pro by that measure.
But we went straight to text at her request. And she has a business WhatsApp. Said she is looking for long term fun with intimacy. And it's rare for a girl to make a first mention of sex like that. (But equally rare for a pro to mention long term. Her bio is very chaste like she is looking for a long term boyfriend) She's quite short in her responses also. But she sent another pic which looks legit.
I guess I can go for a meetup and see, but any other advice from others on figuring out if she is real or something is up?[/QUOTE]So ultimately this was a bust but I still haven't figured out what her game is. First we are to meet up but I find out she is two hours away in another city. Then I happen to be traveling to her city and we arrange a meetup. She's been girlfriendy all along and sending little pics and how was your day. I get the dreaded "need money for gas". She thinks we are meeting in my home city. In which case she's already two hours late and has no gas money (sure!)
Then she says if you are in town just come to my place. Ok. Cautious here. She says she's babysitting her sisters kids but we can set up a game for them and have privacy in her room. WTF? Ok not happening.
On the one hand she's maybe just out for the gas money up front? But really you spend a month chatting a guy for $20? And why the come to my house? If she wants to lure me and mug me then don't tell me we are fucking in the next room from your sisters kids. Just weird all around. But fuck she was good looking.
As always just move on. There is always a next one.
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[QUOTE=Steve9696;2466175]So ultimately this was a bust but I still haven't figured out what her game is.
On the one hand she's maybe just out for the gas money up front? But really you spend a month chatting a guy for $20? And why the come to my house? If she wants to lure me and mug me then don't tell me we are fucking in the next room from your sisters kids. Just weird all around. But fuck she was good looking.
As always just move on. There is always a next one.[/QUOTE]This reminds me of a girl that strung me along for about a month. Then, at the end, she just sends me message saying, "haha, gotcha. " And then she explains how all guys on SA are pigs and I got what I deserved.
In any case, I wouldn't go to her home without seeing her in a public place first. You're stuck in a small USA Town. Can you fly in one of your SBs?
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[QUOTE=SfoCowboy;2466160]The SB asked me for extra allowance; I asked for extra time to be spent and they have all the time in the world now.[/QUOTE]Good move. For extra tip, I ask for bareback. Only one has agreed to it so far.
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Discussion on stocks and markets
Hi guys,
Mongers are some of the best stock pickers that I know. Maybe because we are all into thrill seeking. So I started a new thread on stocks and markets. Just another thread to occupy our idle time while many of us are mostly staying at home during the outbreak.
[URL]http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4173-USA-Stocks-and-markets&p=2466256[/URL]#post2466256.
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[QUOTE=TheTallMan;2465237]Damn I need to re-up my subscription for SA.
Damn fine chicas!
The Tall Man.[/QUOTE]I am also having the same experience in MTY, (Mexico), so much better then the states. There is always drama when it comes to women, but nothing compared what I dealt with in the states, The girls are so nice, beautiful, fun and most are fairly well educated.
That is the good news is Mexico is getting stricter by the day. I have been able to drive in, but now the check points are going back up. We will see what happens.
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2466257]Hi guys,
Mongers are some of the best stock pickers that I know. Maybe because we are all into thrill seeking. So I started a new thread on stocks and markets. Just another thread to occupy our idle time while many of us are mostly staying at home during the outbreak.
[URL]http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4173-USA-Stocks-and-markets&p=2466256[/URL]#post2466256.[/QUOTE]That is a good idea MW, but I have to tell you that one of the ways to keep things from not being idle is Lovense remote control vibrators. I just got off the phone with a Colombian chica of mine. Wow, damn, that was hot! Not quite as good as being there, but I loved the moaning from a naked 23 year old and the "Te quiero" part at the end. Whew! I will talk stocks after I get a cigarette.
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You're brave to do a bareback. I don't do it unless I develop a lot of comfort and understand the sex habits of the girl.
[QUOTE=Midwestern;2466231]Good move. For extra tip, I ask for bareback. Only one has agreed to it so far.[/QUOTE]
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Dating site scammers
[QUOTE=Steve9696;2466175]So ultimately this was a bust but I still haven't figured out what her game is. First we are to meet up but I find out she is two hours away in another city. Then I happen to be traveling to her city and we arrange a meetup. She's been girlfriendy all along and sending little pics and how was your day. I get the dreaded "need money for gas". She thinks we are meeting in my home city. In which case she's already two hours late and has no gas money (sure!)
Then she says if you are in town just come to my place. Ok. Cautious here. She says she's babysitting her sisters kids but we can set up a game for them and have privacy in her room. WTF? Ok not happening.
On the one hand she's maybe just out for the gas money up front? But really you spend a month chatting a guy for $20? And why the come to my house? If she wants to lure me and mug me then don't tell me we are fucking in the next room from your sisters kids. Just weird all around. But fuck she was good looking.
As always just move on. There is always a next one.[/QUOTE]Until you got to the part where she invited you to drive to her house I assumed it was just a money scam. I've seen a lot of that recently on various dating sites, like Tinder. Girl shows as being in your city, but then when you try to meet they are "temporarily" out of town. But they are also very reluctant to give out any details of their favourite restaurant or bar. A number claim to be from small, remote towns. I had one really sexy model like girl claiming to be from a remote village in the Arctic. Well, I've been there and there are no white girls there! A number of the girls doing this are Asian. They have specialized in boasting about their side business in trading Bitcoin or currency trading. I assume the scam is to lure you in as an investor, but I never stayed around long enough to find out.
The other girls I think are just doing a variation on the Russian dating site scams. After building up some rapport with you after weeks of texting, she needs a bill paid, or lost her phone, or wants a web cam, wants to visit you, .
Your situation sounds a bit different but maybe not. Maybe the $20 is just a starting point. Next her car breaks down or she needs an airline ticket. If you had agreed to come to her house, maybe she would find a reason to cancel at the last minute, because really she lives in Texas or Taiwan.
But some of the "scammers" on dating sites are really just phishing for emails or phone numbers, sometimes to try to hack your accounts. And many are just trying to get you to follow them on IG or Snapchat to build up their follower stats.
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[QUOTE=GentlemanTravel;2466473]A number of the girls doing this are Asian. They have specialized in boasting about their side business in trading Bitcoin or currency trading. I assume the scam is to lure you in as an investor, but I never stayed around long enough to find out.[/QUOTE]There are a few of those. One asked me for advice buying gift for her uncle who provided trading "tip". I suggested a 40 K Rolex, a few minutes later she sent me a picture of a 43 K Rolex she just bought for her uncle. Another one who I insisted on meeting to discuss trading or whatever. She disappeared. One I would not sent picture to badgering me for picture. She showed me she made half a million USD / month trading. I told her to send me a picture with two fingers on her lip as a condition for me to send my pictures. She wouldn't and finally gave up on me. Another one owns a Porsche stopped seducing me when I say I am going to visit her to have sex. She said she was looking for something that is non physical.
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[QUOTE=Nounce;2466575]There are a few of those. One asked me for advice buying gift for her uncle who provided trading "tip". I suggested a 40 K Rolex, a few minutes later she sent me a picture of a 43 K Rolex she just bought for her uncle. Another one who I insisted on meeting to discuss trading or whatever. She disappeared. One I would not sent picture to badgering me for picture. She showed me she made half a million USD / month trading. I told her to send me a picture with two fingers on her lip as a condition for me to send my pictures. She wouldn't and finally gave up on me. Another one owns a Porsche stopped seducing me when I say I am going to visit her to have sex. She said she was looking for something that is non physical.[/QUOTE]Nounce,
This sounds like something to be on the lookout for. Thanks for sharing! Mongers, using our guidelines that we have set forth numerous times, none of us on this thread should fall victim to this kind of scam. TBH, if a girl is making 43 k rolex money, and has the dough to buy a Porsche, then I'd be curious why she would be looking for an SD. It sounds like she is successful already, and simply has to continue doing what she is doing. Looking to bang a guy for a couple bucks (when she's not in need) doesn't fit the MO.
2 questions for you.
Were these all asian girls?
Were they east or west coast girls (I'm assuming they were in the US)?
02.
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[QUOTE=LshRoomer;2466811]
Were these all asian girls?
Were they east or west coast girls (I'm assuming they were in the US)?
[/QUOTE]I found some of them in small town on the west coast. I never confronted them directly but I did it indirectly like I mentioned. Their numbers all have Hong Kong country code so just avoid girls with 852 country code and who talk about trading. Another type I will avoid is the ones that talk about honesty and their profile will mention video chat verification. It is just a way to get you into some other paid sites.
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SA absolutely Amazing
[QUOTE=MiamiBoy1;2456855]Just registered on SA, but haven't paid the premium yet. Expected to see many hot woman, but after I did the search, pretty much nothing that would caught my eye came up. Most of the girls are average in the looks department. Is it worth $90/ month? I don't know, but since there are no other options, I may give it a try. It looks like SA is for older guys, looking for a long-term mutually beneficial relationships. I'm in my mid 30's, and have only 2-3 weeks left in CDMX, and my mongering budget is limited.
Just had a terrible session with an independent girl from.
Mileroticos, bait and switch, never again. Never trusted this website, but again, because of Covid19 I could not find any other options. Still no success on Tinder, Badoo, FB.[/QUOTE]I have been now almost 3 months in Mexico with 2 months in Cancun and now a month in CDMX. Except 2 or 3 wrong or bad or greedy girls almost all of them have been amazing and I mean fucked about 100 of them so at an average of 1 each day it is a very good source. Just last week went to the first club in Cdmx which was open and saw 6 hookers for the first time in all these 3 months. SA pussy is absolutely amazing.
I do miss clubs but COVID has caused a great deal of mess.
Peace.
Adios.
Alex.
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Daily meetings with SBs
Has anyone arranged daily (or every second day) meetings with a SB? If so, how much did it cost?
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Update on my current arrangement prospect
As a reminder, I am seeking an arrangement with a receptionist. She was not on SA. She works at a front desk in a lobby of an office building, which is where I occasionally get my Starbucks. We've been flirting for over a year, then I finally had sex with her 16 days ago, at her place, and then I gave her $200, which she wasn't expecting. The next day, she went on a tirade. Here's an update.
So, I keep texting her, to reassure that I like her. She responds with one word replies or just an emoji. Given that she used to be chatting on text, she is still giving me the cold shoulder. I ask her when I can see her again, and she finally said I could visit her at her work on Saturday at 7 pm, which is when it's dead at the office building. So, I go visit her. Man, it was the most boring hour of my life. But, as suggested to me by you guys, I told her that I only gave her money because I wanted to help her and because it makes me happy to help her. This seemed to reassure her. She obviously doesn't want to feel like a pro. And she doesn't want to be with a mongerer.
So, on Sunday, I asked when I could see her again. She said, "I just saw you yesterday. " And I reply, "I want to see you at your home. " She replies, "Why?" I reply, "So we can have privacy. " I wait, and then she says we can meet on Tuesday morning, which is the day that she works the late shift. So, I thought my persistence prevailed.
Unfortunately, we had thunderstorm on Monday, and she caught a chill. I kept texting her all day Monday to see if we were still on for Tuesday, but she ignores all my texts. Finally, at 11 pm, she texts, "I am trying to sleep. Stop texting me. " But this doesn't tell me if we are meeting the next day. So, I decide to just eliminate the ambiguity and I text, "Okay, you rest, and we will not meet tomorrow. I hope you get well soon. ".
I then decide to stop texting her so much. Maybe I am being a pest. So, on Tuesday, I just text her once, "I hope you feel better today. " And that was it. She didn't reply. I didn't text here again until Friday, "Have a good weekend. I miss you. " She didn't reply.
Then, on Monday, this is 2 days ago, I used one of my old tricks. I sent this text, "I will see you tomorrow, at your home, at 10 am. " I wait. Then she replies, "ok. ".
As someone told me a long time ago, women don't like making decisions. So, you just have to make commands. So, for example, if you are hitting it off with a girl in a hotel bar, then instead of asking, "Can we go up to your room?" You instead say, "Let's go to your room. " It really works. Think about it. If you ask a girl, "Can we go up to your room? Then you are putting her on the spot to make the hookup decision.
So, anyway, I saw her yesterday, and we barebacked on and off for 3 hours. She didn't talk much. So, it was a little weird. As I left, I again gave her $200. She looked away as I was doing it, so I put the money on her nightstand. Later that day, I texted, "I miss you. " She replied with an smiley emoji.
[QUOTE=Midwestern;2463032]Warning: This post contains no useful info.
After our first "date," which was just us bare backing at her home for a couple of hours, here is what happened afterwards. The next night, I asked her when I can see her again. She then goes off on a tirade asking me how many GFs I have, and, do I always go to girl's homes. I could tell she was really mad. I guess I acted like going to her place for sex was normal, but now that I think about it, it's totally not normal. Since she is an office worker and not a pro, I should have asked her out on a real date. I have been whoring so much, I don't even know what normal is anymore. It's weird though, because she must have known what she was signing up for when she invited me into her home. I could lie to her, to keep this relationship going, but I don't want to do that, because that will definitely not end well. So, I may never see her again. Oh well. I have the memories at least. But damn, she was ideal. Anyway, sorry to waste people's times.[/QUOTE]
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Great Job and.
[QUOTE=Midwestern;2467228]As a reminder, I am seeking an arrangement with a receptionist. She was not on SA. She works at a front desk in a lobby of an office building, which is where I occasionally get my Starbucks. We've been flirting for over a year, then I finally had sex with her 16 days ago, at her place, and then I gave her $200, which she wasn't expecting. The next day, she went on a tirade. Here's an update.
So, I keep texting her, to reassure that I like her. She responds with one word replies or just an emoji. Given that she used to be chatting on text, she is still giving me the cold shoulder. I ask her when I can see her again, and she finally said I could visit her at her work on Saturday at 7 pm, which is when it's dead at the office building. So, I go visit her. Man, it was the most boring hour of my life. But, as suggested to me by you guys, I told her that I only gave her money because I wanted to help her and because it makes me happy to help her. This seemed to reassure her. She obviously doesn't want to feel like a pro. And she doesn't want to be with a mongerer.
So, on Sunday, I asked when I could see her again. She said, "I just saw you yesterday. " And I reply, "I want to see you at your home. " She replies, "Why?" I reply, "So we can have privacy. " I wait, and then she says we can meet on Tuesday morning, which is the day that she works the late shift. So, I thought my persistence prevailed.
Unfortunately, we had thunderstorm on Monday, and she caught a chill. I kept texting her all day Monday to see if we were still on for Tuesday, but she ignores all my texts. Finally, at 11 pm, she texts, "I am trying to sleep. Stop texting me. " But this doesn't tell me if we are meeting the next day. So, I decide to just eliminate the ambiguity and I text, "Okay, you rest, and we will not meet tomorrow. I hope you get well soon. ".
I then decide to stop texting her so much. Maybe I am being a pest. So, on Tuesday, I just text her once, "I hope you feel better today. " And that was it. She didn't reply. I didn't text here again until Friday, "Have a good weekend. I miss you. " She didn't reply.
Then, on Monday, this is 2 days ago, I used one of my old tricks. I sent this text, "I will see you tomorrow, at your home, at 10 am. " I wait. Then she replies, "ok. ".
As someone told me a long time ago, women don't like making decisions. So, you just have to make commands. So, for example, if you are hitting it off with a girl in a hotel bar, then instead of asking, "Can we go up to your room?" You instead say, "Let's go to your room. " It really works. Think about it. If you ask a girl, "Can we go up to your room? Then you are putting her on the spot to make the hookup decision.
So, anyway, I saw her yesterday, and we barebacked on and off for 3 hours. She didn't talk much. So, it was a little weird. As I left, I again gave her $200. She looked away as I was doing it, so I put the money on her nightstand. Later that day, I texted, "I miss you. " She replied with an smiley emoji.[/QUOTE]So clearly great job getting to the goal. And clearly the strong lead was key. If you want to keep her tho I suggest you go a bit less sex for money and take her out or something if she'll go. Make her feel a bit more special than just sex.
The strong frame clearly works. I think I mentioned it before but when I was in London with limited time once I engaged a girl the least bit on SA I'the say "I'm going dancing in Soho on Thursday. Come with me. " And I got like five girls saying yes. I was amazing by how the strong frame totally works. Ended up not dancing but meeting at my room instead. Not sure I posted it. Will take a peak and post if not.
Best of luck in your next date with her.
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[QUOTE=Alex7J;2466914]I have been now almost 3 months in Mexico with 2 months in Cancun and now a month in CDMX. Except 2 or 3 wrong or bad or greedy girls almost all of them have been amazing and I mean fucked about 100 of them so at an average of 1 each day it is a very good source. Just last week went to the first club in Cdmx which was open and saw 6 hookers for the first time in all these 3 months. SA pussy is absolutely amazing.
I do miss clubs but COVID has caused a great deal of mess.
Peace.
Adios.
Alex.[/QUOTE]Love your report. I am having the same experience in MTY, just so much fun and meeting high quality and beautiful ladies. I have had a couple of issues with Fake or Doctored photos, but some of that was my own fault for being rushed and no doing my Homework.
In MTY you will not get high Quality for $100, but $150 works perfect. No criticism, just a different city maybe. I love Mexico, it so much better then Colombia, Rio, and Kiev. Not as good as Russia, but I just do not have the time to travel there now too much work, I am very lucky and fortunate. Also, I have decided to boycott the Airlines as much as possible, I just got sick of there b. S. I feel terrible for all the problems and hardship the Virus has caused-but I have zero compassion for the Airlines. I was 1 k and extremely loyal, now I will just buy the cheapest ticket. There service got so bad, it is just not fun for me to fly anymore.
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Mega Awesome Viet in London
This is from earlier this year, right as Covid was starting, but has some interesting stuff in it. Like even tho she is NOT a pro, her wanting to come to my room to avoid a public meetup. And even a pro like me is never quite sure with an SA girl if she is DTF. I mean yeah she's in your room but it still feels like a date. And the part where I pull down her pants but she puts her panties back on makes me think she was maybe reticent. But then persistence pays off. This was one of my best SA experiences and we were both smitten. We planned to travel together in Europe. It was a bit like Thifany I threw out the "I'm going to be in Europe again next month. Would you join me for a weekend in Paris?" And she's like absolutely. I can't wait to see you again. OMG I was over the moon. And then Covid hit. Fuck me! She's still on the hook tho if this shit ever clears. Anyhow hope you enjoy!
.
So even tho the pro scene in London is wonderful (see the London thread for recent adventures), the SA scene seems very solid and I hit a home run recently.
As previously described, I look for girls that have less experience on the site and are more about the experience than high $$. This way you get a "real girl" not a pro. I guess I started working London two weeks back and had some quality engagement. I had probably 6-8 girls who engaged on WhatsApp, which are very strong numbers.
I was taking a very aggressive opening like "I'm going dancing in Soho on Wednesday want to join me?" And the hook rate was much higher than normal. I know from Nanpa, that girls want a strong lead, but also maybe they are tired of endless SA chat and ready to rumble. In any case, I'the say I moved Suspects to Prospects at about 70-80% success rate, which is super high. So I might try this more in the future.
Had several girls signed up but eventually had to put them off when a late-comer I'the written off, suddenly appeared. Wowza! Super pretty Viet. And a really nice balanced chat. Each was prepared to walk away at various points and, as we discussed later, this confidence was alluring in both directions. We agreed a couple days in advance to meet up and I kept her warm with texts in the meantime.
It was quite an unusual meetup because she wanted to come straight to my room. But just for talk and wine and then see where it goes. This was odd because she's clearly not an escort even more clear now but she didn't want to be seen in public with a stranger. (Ok legit but unusual and pretty ballsy).
I send her an Uber and she comes straight to my place. So she shows at my door and she is drop dead fucking gorgeous. Her pictures do not do her justice. Skin-tight leather pants, spike heeled boots and a face that melts me. OMFG. So we sit on the edge of the bed (it's a tiny London room) and have some wine and just chat. She is super chatty and a London local.
Fuck if we didn't kill a whole bottle of Rose and TWO HOURS just chatting. It completely flew by! Obviously she's a chatty girl but I could just look at her face for hours. So I did!
So with that amount of chat, this is going to be one slow buildup still not sure if she is DTF (down to fuck) - but I am enjoying every second. All through chatting, I am doing light touch escalation, which comes naturally to me. But there is no obvious break where a kiss makes sense.
She had said it was her birthday, which I thought was likely BS, but her mom calls with the Happy Birthday call and she has to stop and take it. Actually this is a great opportunity. She's chatting a bit and I am a bit bored and had a few drinks so I start taking off one of her fuck-me boots. Unzip it and slide it off. And then she offers her other foot! When she wraps with her mom, we have a bathroom break each, and when she comes back I've moved cross-legged further up the bed and she joins me likewise. The boot taking off and moving up the bed were clearly key moves in escalating this. And at some point I transition it to laying down side by side, me on my back and her on her front.
We continue to chat, but the mechanics of our position-change now leave only about six inches between our faces. At some point I am inspired and close the gap and kiss her. Pretty light exploratory stuff. She continues chatting on after I break. (did I mention she's chatty?) But at some point she's inspired and leans in and kisses me! Well now I engage and open her mouth for full-on tongue mackin engagement which gets the party started.
I work her onto her back and start grinding on top of her while making out. I love this dominance and it seems to get girls equally worked up. She's got on a halter top with a bra under. Again going very slow, I start massaging her tits through the halter and then work my way down licking and biting her naked midriff and even exploring a bit below her waistband with my tongue. This must be the ticket, because she sits up and pulls off her bra and top.
So I work her fabulous firm be cups quite a bit. She likes squeezing and circles and nipple sucking. I again start on her tummy still not knowing if she is DTF or we are just going to play around on this first date. And I reach up to her waistband and start pulling down her tight leather pants. Well her panties come with but she puts them back on. I am not sure what to make of this; but I am undeterred and will work around this obstacle!
I start by just lick-sucking in that magical little hollow juncture of thigh and body to the left and right of her panties and she starts to grind. Still unsure if I am going to get a "halt" from her, I slide the panties gently to the side and start softly working her clit. OK now I have her going.
She starts to Coo and moan and eventually builds to a substantial O. But I am not done and neither is she, as she quickly starts another build. I tentatively slip a finger inside she's super tight but sopping wet. And some clit and gspot work is on. She is a hot wet mess and feels awesome and man does she love the combo tongue and finger work. She is a complete goner. She has at least 2 more Os. And these are not fake escort Os. This is the real deal with a real girl and this makes SA completely awesome!!
Honestly I would be satisfied to stop right here. I absolutely love to take a sorta shy real girl and get her worked into some crashing Os. Very much like SA virgin Emily in NYC. It's tough work but someone's got to do it!
So we cuddle side by side a bit as she recovers and she says "So should I suck you now?" God I love these fresh new girls. And the answer is absolutely, baby. So we get my boxers off and down she goes. She's quite good on mouth on shaft, but like many SAs I meet, needs some direction to do more licking and ball sucking. To her credit she dives right in and does a quite epic job.
After a good bit of that (I don't blow my stack because I was with a Diva escort just a few hours before) she comes up for air and we are side by side. Again, believe it or not, I am still questioning if she is DTF or we are going to stop short here. She asks me what I'm thinking and I say I'm thinking I want to do more other stuff (don't know why I am quite so circumspect LOL) and she says you mean have sex? And I say absolutely! So we suit up. Yea!
A lot of girls like to start on top to control first penetration. I'm a pretty thick guy and she is super tight so this would be a good idea. But instead she rolls on her back and we start in mish. I definitely have to go slow and less than full engagement till we get the fit going and then it's slippery slide time! Wow.
We do some great mish and cowgirl fuck she's a fine sight riding high! Doggie with me standing at edge of the bed. Pretty much everything. I show her the Andy pillow under the butt position and we get her legs up on my shoulders, me on my knees, and wow fuck she likes that. She goes through two more crashing Os. Honestly I think she would fuck forever, but I'm getting pretty tired!
Even tho she feels great, the condom isn't going to get it done and we go back to BBBJ which feels heavenly. Nonetheless I prove perilously hard to finish. She soldiers on, which I LOVE and we finish me hand-on-shaft and her on BLS. She's not afraid to dive quite a ways down there and it feels wonderful. Eventually I shoot a hard shot on my stomach. Wow!
So we pillow talk some more what a great girl. And at some point she asks the time she knows I have a dinner thing. I say it's coming up 7 and she is like OMG I thought it was like 5 pm! Seriously. She has been so taken with the whirlwind of our adventure that time has flown by and that makes me feel like a million bucks.
Indeed we continue chatting in a naked cuddle for another half hour, spending 4. 5 hours together in the room! And really she only leaves because she knows I have to go. I think she suspects another girl (yep!) but doesn't say. We wrap it up with a parting kiss and agree we MUST spend time together when I am back in London and likely even hit the town a bit now that I'm not a stranger! Wow what a girl!
SA fucking rules!
P.S. This makes two girls I've fucked in London on their 23rd birthdays (Thifany being the other) WTF? I must be doing something right! LOL.
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[QUOTE=Steve9696;2467234]So clearly great job getting to the goal. And clearly the strong lead was key. If you want to keep her tho I suggest you go a bit less sex for money and take her out or something if she'll go. Make her feel a bit more special than just sex.
[/QUOTE]Thanks for your props, man. As for your suggestion, it's a good one, but if it takes that much effort, then I'm going to cut bait. If this doesn't work out, then I'm going back to screwing lonely old housewives. And, of course, also go back to explicit P4 P.
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[QUOTE=Alex7J;2466914]I have been now almost 3 months in Mexico with 2 months in Cancun and now a month in CDMX. Except 2 or 3 wrong or bad or greedy girls almost all of them have been amazing and I mean fucked about 100 of them so at an average of 1 each day it is a very good source. Just last week went to the first club in Cdmx which was open and saw 6 hookers for the first time in all these 3 months. SA pussy is absolutely amazing.[/QUOTE]Good for you Alex. There is no doubt that Covid has been good for guys trying to score Mexican SBs (and also Colombian and Vennie SBs in Mexico). The problem with Cancun is that Mexican women wanted USA Rates. Was that an issue for you?
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Sa cdmx
[QUOTE=Alex7J;2466914]I have been now almost 3 months in Mexico with 2 months in Cancun and now a month in CDMX. Except 2 or 3 wrong or bad or greedy girls almost all of them have been amazing and I mean fucked about 100 of them so at an average of 1 each day it is a very good source. Just last week went to the first club in Cdmx which was open and saw 6 hookers for the first time in all these 3 months. SA pussy is absolutely amazing.
I do miss clubs but COVID has caused a great deal of mess.
Peace.
Adios.
Alex.[/QUOTE]Hey Alex,
Thank for the reply. Quick update. I have paid the premium about a week ago, and so far I have totally forgotten about Twitter and escort websites. Now SA offers me way more girls when I do a search than before. I had a great date with a smoking hot 9/10 girl for 3500 MXN, you simply can't find a girl of that level of hotness on Twitter or elsewhere. What is the point of paying 1500-2000/ HR (+ hotel room and taxi sometimes) for an average looking twitter girl when you can get a really hot one for 2500-3500/ night? SA offers a way better value and a date with SA girl is totally different experience. I have one more SA date scheduled and also had 2 decent Tinder dates (both were repeat dates). Yes, you can find a working girl on Tinder too, but the selection is limited, I guess I just got lucky after almost a month of using it. What is the average nightly / multi-hour rate that you pay them? Out of 100 that you fucked, would you share a few that outperformed?
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2467267]Thanks for your props, man. As for your suggestion, it's a good one, but if it takes that much effort, then I'm going to cut bait. If this doesn't work out, then I'm going back to screwing lonely old housewives. And, of course, also go back to explicit P4 P.[/QUOTE]I think you know that you are in the part of the world where rich men can have many wives and families, even publicly. You need to figure out how that works and not accidentally Americanize them.
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[QUOTE=Nounce;2467991]I think you know that you are in the part of the world where rich men can have many wives and families, even publicly. You need to figure out how that works and not accidentally Americanize them.[/QUOTE]The funny thing is that last night she actually tossed the following idea to me: I give her enough money each month so that she can quit her job.
I am guessing that she was joking. She's a funny person.
However, if she were being serious, I actually know the market prices of mistresses in Shanghai. At the low end, they are looking for an apartment, that goes for about $600 per month, and a monthly allowance of about $900 per month.
I already spend at least $1500 per month on this hobby for most months. But I am hesitant to lock into a one-year contract with anyone. I say "one-year" because that's how long a typical lease runs. Sure, I could get out of the lease early, but then I'd lose the deposit, which is equivalent to 2 month's rent. And, I would have to see her at least twice per week to make this worth it financially, and I can't see myself remaining interested in anyone if I see them that frequently.
So, I am hoping that she will remain a PPM arrangement.
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2468063]
So, I am hoping that she will remain a PPM arrangement.[/QUOTE]Please stay on PPM. Keep her keen and not let her get too comfortable. We all know the quality soon drops.
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Advice Welcome
So I am finally getting a chance to see local girl Alexis later this week. She claims to be a newbie but she is 25 and I see her on SA often. So not completely sure. Three weeks ago I described what I was looking for (without being explicit of course) and after a couple days of what I thought might be ghosting she was back on (but no explicit acknowledgement of the discussion nor $$.
Since that time it's been great light chat — she checks in on me or me on her every other day or so. And we have been planning a lunchtime meetup.
As you guys know I am the king of the on-the-road single night SA hookup. But this is that dicey at home without corporate hotel situation. I am definitely NOT booking in advance. But should I go for the strong "end up at hotel" frame or the "let's just meetup" frame. I am inclined to the latter but have not done this often and the one time I did it I did not close the deal (partly due to other circumstances).
So looking for some thoughts on approach:
1. Chat ahead by text and agree particulars of $$.
2. Just meetup and go with the flow — if she is DTF book hotel last minute?
3. Just meetup with clear no sex frame?
And if 3 discuss room and allowance in person? (How do you broach this?) or just have a great time and take next steps like hotel and $$ by text?
All thoughts welcome. Thanks.
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[QUOTE=Steve9696;2468196]So I am finally getting a chance to see local girl Alexis later this week. She claims to be a newbie but she is 25 and I see her on SA often. So not completely sure. Three weeks ago I described what I was looking for (without being explicit of course) and after a couple days of what I thought might be ghosting she was back on (but no explicit acknowledgement of the discussion nor $$.
Since that time it's been great light chat she checks in on me or me on her every other day or so. And we have been planning a lunchtime meetup.
As you guys know I am the king of the on-the-road single night SA hookup. But this is that dicey at home without corporate hotel situation. I am definitely NOT booking in advance. But should I go for the strong "end up at hotel" frame or the "let's just meetup" frame. I am inclined to the latter but have not done this often and the one time I did it I did not close the deal (partly due to other circumstances).
So looking for some thoughts on approach:
1. Chat ahead by text and agree particulars of $$.
2. Just meetup and go with the flow if she is DTF book hotel last minute?
3. Just meetup with clear no sex frame?
And if 3 discuss room and allowance in person? (How do you broach this?) or just have a great time and take next steps like hotel and $$ by text?
All thoughts welcome. Thanks.[/QUOTE]I would go with the flow. Sound like she is still unsure about the process. Booking a room at the last moment is usually no problem, but I would check around in advance. Pick a fun activity and ask if she would like to go to your hotel room later if the moment seems right. You are a pro, so you know how to flirt. If she says yes, you can slip out to the restroom and make the reservation. Ask to have to have paperwork ready or online check in. BTW, have you ever had a girl in a room who just decided she was not DTF? Unless there is an agreed to price, that is always a possibility. What do you normally talk about on a meetup? It seems like it can get awkward.
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Asian trading scammers
[QUOTE=LshRoomer;2466811]Nounce,
This sounds like something to be on the lookout for. Thanks for sharing! Mongers, using our guidelines that we have set forth numerous times, none of us on this thread should fall victim to this kind of scam. TBH, if a girl is making 43 k rolex money, and has the dough to buy a Porsche, then I'd be curious why she would be looking for an SD. It sounds like she is successful already, and simply has to continue doing what she is doing. Looking to bang a guy for a couple bucks (when she's not in need) doesn't fit the MO.
2 questions for you.
Were these all asian girls?
Were they east or west coast girls (I'm assuming they were in the US)?[/QUOTE]In my case, the girls were on Tinder, so not necessarily pretending to look for a SD. And it's interesting. Nounce mentions $40,000. Mine also said she had just made $40,000 currency trading that day. So I suggested she could pay for our lunch date, in Paris. Then she started mocking me about not being smart enough to do foreign exchange day trading, which I readily admit I am not. Nor are most people who try it! But clearly she was trying to goad me into manning up and investing with her.
It's not clear where these women are. Some are clearly working from an Asian base and might even admit to being in China, but they will be coming to (your city) soon. Others claim to live in your city, but are temporarily out of town, and for some reason cannot respond to questions about things in your city. So where they claim to be and where they are are two different things.
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Btca
[QUOTE=GentlemanTravel;2468263]In my case, the girls were on Tinder, so not necessarily pretending to look for a SD. And it's interesting. Nounce mentions $40,000. Mine also said she had just made $40,000 currency trading that day. So I suggested she could pay for our lunch date, in Paris. Then she started mocking me about not being smart enough to do foreign exchange day trading, which I readily admit I am not. Nor are most people who try it! But clearly she was trying to goad me into manning up and investing with her.
It's not clear where these women are. Some are clearly working from an Asian base and might even admit to being in China, but they will be coming to (your city) soon. Others claim to live in your city, but are temporarily out of town, and for some reason cannot respond to questions about things in your city. So where they claim to be and where they are are two different things.[/QUOTE]I had four or five of those contacts recently, took me a while to figure out what they are up to. Two had Asian numbers (claiming to be in Hongkong), two had UK numbers. One chat (going over four or five days) finally made obvious what she was up to: She said she is a crypto currency trader in London, working with BTCA. She seemed to be ready to take it slow, as we came to the subject quite patiently. Finally when she started to deflect all other topics she lost her temper, called me a "stupid stock market guy" and left the conversation. In the beginning she spoke about planning a trip to Rome and therefore checking out my profile. Same for the other girls: they are all coming to Europe, supposedly. Contact was made on SA.
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[QUOTE=Steve9696;2468196]
And if 3 discuss room and allowance in person? (How do you broach this?) or just have a great time and take next steps like hotel and $$ by text?
All thoughts welcome. Thanks.[/QUOTE]In my local area, hotel vacancy rates are extreme. It's easy to get walk-in bookings. Do your research for a hotel close to where you are meeting. I did this with a girl about 6 weeks ago. We met for coffee, had to sit in the car due to lock down, as we were nearing the end of our coffee and things were going well then I said let's go to a hotel. I did the hotel reception part while she waited in the car nursing the remaining drops of her coffee.
Maybe you could ask 'if she has any expectations for your hotel visit?
Another time I have send the girl a text message while I was out to the bathroom. Girls also find the money topic awkward, so the text gives her an easy way also.
Enjoy your adventure. It doesn't have to be too hard.
PP.
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[QUOTE=Steve9696;2468196]
1. Chat ahead by text and agree particulars of $$.
2. Just meetup and go with the flow if she is DTF book hotel last minute?
3. Just meetup with clear no sex frame?
And if 3 discuss room and allowance in person? (How do you broach this?) or just have a great time and take next steps like hotel and $$ by text?
All thoughts welcome. Thanks.[/QUOTE]When I was briefly based in the states, I lived in shared corporate housing, so I couldn't bring girls back to my place, so I had to make this decision every time I met a new SB. I learned from experience that booking the hotel ahead of time, my usage rate was only about 20% (this means I only ended up at the hotel with her 20% of the time, the other 80% I didn't use it either because she flaked on the date or because she was not DTF on the first date, and there was even one time where she was not anywhere near as pretty or bubbly in person as she was on the site, so I was not DTF, LOL). I realized that this was a huge waste of money, because hotels in my city are at least $200 per night.
I did have one date where chemistry was great and then we decided to go to a hotel. I used an app to book it, no problem. But when we arrived, I had to collect the keys at the front desk. This took 10 minutes, and it was awkward. Plus, the hotel manager kept saying my name out loud. Maybe if I were to do this again, I would tell the girl to go to the hotel bar and get us a couple of drinks and wait for me there while I got the keys.
But based on my experience, I would just do 3. I did this a lot. We meet, have a good time. And then toward the end of the date, I would just ask what she was hoping to find on SA. Sometimes we agreed on a deal on the spot. Sometimes I would say that I would have to think about it. I had many great arrangements from doing this. It just required a bit of patience. One bonus possibility from doing 3 is that she might have a place of her own that you guys can go back to. I hooked up with a few girls this way. It made me a little nervous though. So, I would always tell the girl that before I enter any place, I am going to text her exact address to my friend, in case she had thugs waiting to beat me up. I always said this with a smile, and she would laugh and say, "sure, go ahead, I totally understand."
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Alternatives to SA
I've been trying to see if I can meet recruit a SB without resorting to SA. Maybe it's just a prejudice or my imagination, but I am concerned that girls off SA will be too professional or expect too much $$ I am kind of a "Sugar Daddy Lite".
Anyway, I live in a mid-sized American city, with a couple of universities. In the past (3+ years ago), I just placed ads on Backpage or Craigslist and found it relatively easy to connect with an attractive coed for $200 - $300 per meeting. And these were real, "normal" girls, who for the most part, had not done this before. However, those days of using CL or BP are gone.
So I ended up trying Tinder and Bumble, based on the advice of one of my previous SBs (who unfortunately had to go back to her home country). I hadn't really considered Tinder because, while it works great for me in foreign (developing) countries, I assumed it would not be so good for a 50++ man in an American city. The dynamics are just completely different. Also, I didn't know you could put up a profile without using a face photo, but you can. Of course, this is of no value if you are looking for regular dates (who's going to click on a profile with no photo?) but I use a business avatar photo with the legend "Daddy Seeking Baby Girl".
This was permitted on Tinder, but on Bumble I still had to submit a face photo, which I cannot do in my home town. I tried to use a lookalike celebrity photo, to give the girls some clue how I looked, but that kept getting screened out. I guess they have bots that search those things. Eventually I found a suitable non-descript photo that was acceptable to Bumble's bot. In addition to the legend on the photo in my description I mentioned I was looking for a mutually beneficial relationship, but did not us words like "generous" or "$$$" I don't know how explicit you can be. But ex-SB said I should be more direct because these days some girls might read "mutually beneficial" same as "friends with benefits" meaning we both get sex out of it, but not necessarily a financial incentive.
In the two weeks or so of doing this I have had a handful of responses, some reasonably direct about compensation. Generally I have not been too aggressive or direct in my responses on the theory that these girls are not escorts and some may be shy talking about money. Ex-SB thinks I'm wrong and need to close the deal more quickly before the girls get swamped with other messages, as they tend to on Tinder.
At first I was getting almost no interest on Bumble, which you may know is different in that the girl has to make the first contact. So you're kind of helpless there. But then, after two weeks, I suddenly got a small crop of responses there and at least two excellent prospects. I have now met with those two prospects who are basically a 7 (okay cute, big tits but also not slender) and an 8 (pretty and slender but modest tits). I've had explicit discussions with them about expectations about prices and service (BBBJ) and we've agreed on $250 per meeting, which I think is a pretty good price and may eventually include them hosting. The 8 has had SDs before but the 7 has not.
I have not test-driven either of them yet, just had drinks on a patio, but should bag one later this week and the other early next week. So I will see how this all works out. And GOD, it's a relief from the boredom of lockdown!
Oh, and after I had connected with both these Bumble girls off-line, my profile on Bumble got tagged and taken down. Now I am shut out of that particular honey-pot. So it's a good thing I migrated off the site when I did!
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SA is Worth It
[QUOTE=GentlemanTravel;2468484]I've been trying to see if I can meet recruit a SB without resorting to SA. Maybe it's just a prejudice or my imagination, but I am concerned that girls off SA will be too professional or expect too much $$ I am kind of a "Sugar Daddy Lite".
Anyway, I live in a mid-sized American city, with a couple of universities. In the past (3+ years ago), I just placed ads on Backpage or Craigslist and found it relatively easy to connect with an attractive coed for $200 - $300 per meeting. And these were real, "normal" girls, who for the most part, had not done this before. However, those days of using CL or BP are gone.
So I ended up trying Tinder and Bumble, based on the advice of one of my previous SBs (who unfortunately had to go back to her home country). I hadn't really considered Tinder because, while it works great for me in foreign (developing) countries, I assumed it would not be so good for a 50++ man in an American city. The dynamics are just completely different. Also, I didn't know you could put up a profile without using a face photo, but you can. Of course, this is of no value if you are looking for regular dates (who's going to click on a profile with no photo?) but I use a business avatar photo with the legend "Daddy Seeking Baby Girl".
This was permitted on Tinder, but on Bumble I still had to submit a face photo, which I cannot do in my home town. I tried to use a lookalike celebrity photo, to give the girls some clue how I looked, but that kept getting screened out. I guess they have bots that search those things. Eventually I found a suitable non-descript photo that was acceptable to Bumble's bot. In addition to the legend on the photo in my description I mentioned I was looking for a mutually beneficial relationship, but did not us words like "generous" or "$$$" I don't know how explicit you can be. But ex-SB said I should be more direct because these days some girls might read "mutually beneficial" same as "friends with benefits" meaning we both get sex out of it, but not necessarily a financial incentive.
In the two weeks or so of doing this I have had a handful of responses, some reasonably direct about compensation. Generally I have not been too aggressive or direct in my responses on the theory that these girls are not escorts and some may be shy talking about money. Ex-SB thinks I'm wrong and need to close the deal more quickly before the girls get swamped with other messages, as they tend to on Tinder.
At first I was getting almost no interest on Bumble, which you may know is different in that the girl has to make the first contact. So you're kind of helpless there. But then, after two weeks, I suddenly got a small crop of responses there and at least two excellent prospects. I have now met with those two prospects who are basically a 7 (okay cute, big tits but also not slender) and an 8 (pretty and slender but modest tits). I've had explicit discussions with them about expectations about prices and service (BBBJ) and we've agreed on $250 per meeting, which I think is a pretty good price and may eventually include them hosting. The 8 has had SDs before but the 7 has not.
I have not test-driven either of them yet, just had drinks on a patio, but should bag one later this week and the other early next week. So I will see how this all works out. And GOD, it's a relief from the boredom of lockdown!
Oh, and after I had connected with both these Bumble girls off-line, my profile on Bumble got tagged and taken down. Now I am shut out of that particular honey-pot. So it's a good thing I migrated off the site when I did![/QUOTE]I tried Bumble for a bit but struggled with all the same things as you. Waste of time. Your perception of SA is WRONG tho. Yes plenty of pros on there. Easy to screen out. Also find SB virgins. And a lot in between. No shortage of non-pro and semi-pro girls. But thanks for the Insights. Very interesting.
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[QUOTE=GentlemanTravel;2468263]Mine also said she had just made $40,000 currency trading that day.[/QUOTE]Yeah, right before she lost $50,000.
[QUOTE=GentlemanTravel;2468263]But clearly she was trying to goad me into manning up and investing with her.[/QUOTE]This is right out of the Imarkets live hand book, an Amway type organization for trading currencies. They put up pictures of all their fabulous wealth and locations they have been to, and all these chicas have zero in their bank account. I do not care how hot a chick is if she is with that organization I will bail. They will spend all day hawking their shit. They will claim not to be hookers, but they are the worst hookers there are.
Multilevel marketing companies are a magnet for narcissists. If any chick mentions any MLM, my advice is run Forest run.
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I did bump into a Chinese girl on tinder who tried me to get into bullion trading. Very persistent. Didn't trade a penny.
[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2468564]Yeah, right before she lost $50,000.
This is right out of the Imarkets live hand book, an Amway type organization for trading currencies. They put up pictures of all their fabulous wealth and locations they have been to, and all these chicas have zero in their bank account. I do not care how hot a chick is if she is with that organization I will bail. They will spend all day hawking their shit. They will claim not to be hookers, but they are the worst hookers there are.
Multilevel marketing companies are a magnet for narcissists. If any chick mentions any MLM, my advice is run Forest run.[/QUOTE]
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Crypto and currency
[QUOTE=TeFab456;2468285]I had four or five of those contacts recently, took me a while to figure out what they are up to. Two had Asian numbers (claiming to be in Hongkong), two had UK numbers. One chat (going over four or five days) finally made obvious what she was up to: She said she is a crypto currency trader in London, working with BTCA. She seemed to be ready to take it slow, as we came to the subject quite patiently. Finally when she started to deflect all other topics she lost her temper, called me a "stupid stock market guy" and left the conversation. In the beginning she spoke about planning a trip to Rome and therefore checking out my profile. Same for the other girls: they are all coming to Europe, supposedly. Contact was made on SA.[/QUOTE]Yes, half of them have been talking crypto currency and the other half currency exchange rate trading. And yes, as Elvis says, they show profile photos of wealth, fashion and travel.
The sad part, is some people hear about this kind of trading and think it is real (which of course it can be, in rarefied circles) and think they can make money that way. My Jamaican GF#1 recently asked me to get her a notebook so she could start foreign exchange trading. I thought, but could not say - "Honey, if you need me to get the notebook, what are you going to use for risk capital? What do you, who have never left Jamaica, know about currency trading?" I mean, I have a degree in Economics, a background in accounting & finance, completed the securities course, and constantly translate four currencies back and forth in my head every day in the normal course of business, and I wouldn't dare to think I could make any money trying to out-guess the market. So I steered GF#1 back into a modest plan to import eyelash extensions. A business and a market she knows more about than I do, which is as it should be. But I've talked to several girls in Jamaica who think they can make money in some kind of day trading activity, which is absurd and heart-breaking.
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Where to next?
Covid is driving me crazy!
I haven't traveled domestically or internationally (preferrred) in months. My edibles are running low, and I haven't had a new face in my lap in a while. This is getting old, really fast! Not here to complain because we are all experiencing the same thing. Instead, I am considering the positive. Where to venture next? I have a german girl that has kept in touch over the last few months pretty intensely (didn't meet on SA), so Germany will definitely be one of my stops. I'm not an FKK guy, but I have been told to check it out. Not a fan of in the club sex, or a quick bust and go, hence the reason I, like you, chose the SB route. I do want to experience it though, and check it off the list.
The reason I'm writing. 2 separate questions below:
Where do you guys like to go for SB hunting? I personally like Berlin, Poland, and London. Lots of options and just my type (pretty faces. European vibe. Skinny - cool. Some don't want $$ Prague has a lot of options, but I've had to work harder in czechia than in some other places. I've personally had just as much fun with the escorts there and the price is about the same (if you know where to look).
I'm considering the West Coast (Seattle / Vancouver / Portland) for some exploration. I have some clients over there and I love the weather and the vibe. Anybody got experience in this region? Any patterns / scams noticed, etc?
I tried SA in Denver and I found a lot of interest, but the SBs want too much for too little. They had that privileged vibe that I haven't seen much of in my normal stomping grounds (europe).
Let me know what you guys think.
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2 photos
[QUOTE=LshRoomer;2469146]Covid is driving me crazy!
Where do you guys like to go for SB hunting? I personally like Berlin, Poland, and London. Lots of options and just my type (pretty faces. European vibe. Skinny - cool. Some don't want $$ Prague has a lot of options, but I've had to work harder in czechia than in some other places. I've personally had just as much fun with the escorts there and the price is about the same (if you know where to look)..[/QUOTE]My taste in women is similar to yours. I go for a combination of two things. The first is a place with low living expenses, and the second are places where beautiful women flock.
I think Latinas fuck and treat men better than anywhere outside of Asia, and Asian women usually do not do much for me. The beauties in South America are in Colombia, Venezuela, Brazil, Paraguay, and Argentina. My favorite is Colombia. The women are pretty, great in bed, not too demanding $$ wise, and treat men very well. The best looking and performing women are in Brazil, Sao Paulo in particular, but they in general are more shallow, not as loyal, and more money hungry than Colombian women.
As for now, you can hobby internationally in Mexico. I just got back from Cancun where I met the Mexican beauty below. The best place to find a SB in Mexico IMO is Mexico City, and I have hooked up with Colombian, Venezuelan, and Mexican women there.
[QUOTE=LshRoomer;2469146]I'm considering the West Coast (Seattle / Vancouver / Portland) for some exploration. I have some clients over there and I love the weather and the vibe. Anybody got experience in this region? Any patterns / scams noticed, etc?
I tried SA in Denver and I found a lot of interest, but the SBs want too much for too little. They had that privileged vibe that I haven't seen much of in my normal stomping grounds (europe).[/QUOTE]I think the best quality to value ratio is Southern central USA: Alabama, Louisiana, Texas, Oklahoma, Georgia, Tennessee. Florida has hot women but they usually want too much. If you thought the women in Denver wanted too much, then forget about the West Coast. Women there want crazy money IMO. The states I listed have good looking women but living expenses are usually not that high.
There are pluses and minuses to Covid. I find four 10's in Mexico City on a trip there after pretty much striking out on my last two pre-Covid trips. All the 10's joined SA because they lost their jobs due to Covid. Also, flights, resorts are much more pleasant due to a lack of crowding due to traffic. Also in cities like Mexico City, you can get places in 15 minutes that used to take hours because of how much less traffic there is.
On the downside, not going to Colombia is killing me.
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FKK SA Markets Etc.
[QUOTE=LshRoomer;2469146]Covid is driving me crazy!
I haven't traveled domestically or internationally (preferrred) in months. My edibles are running low, and I haven't had a new face in my lap in a while. This is getting old, really fast! Not here to complain because we are all experiencing the same thing. Instead, I am considering the positive. Where to venture next? I have a german girl that has kept in touch over the last few months pretty intensely (didn't meet on SA), so Germany will definitely be one of my stops. I'm not an FKK guy, but I have been told to check it out. Not a fan of in the club sex, or a quick bust and go, hence the reason I, like you, chose the SB route. I do want to experience it though, and check it off the list.
The reason I'm writing. 2 separate questions below:
Where do you guys like to go for SB hunting? I personally like Berlin, Poland, and London. Lots of options and just my type (pretty faces. European vibe. Skinny - cool. Some don't want $$ Prague has a lot of options, but I've had to work harder in czechia than in some other places. I've personally had just as much fun with the escorts there and the price is about the same (if you know where to look).
I'm considering the West Coast (Seattle / Vancouver / Portland) for some exploration. I have some clients over there and I love the weather and the vibe. Anybody got experience in this region? Any patterns / scams noticed, etc?
I tried SA in Denver and I found a lot of interest, but the SBs want too much for too little. They had that privileged vibe that I haven't seen much of in my normal stomping grounds (europe).
Let me know what you guys think.[/QUOTE]I know this is not the FKK forum but to respond to your first comment above. I am totally a girlfriend type of guy. Love the dinner. Love the dancing. Love the flirting. It's the best. But FKK is unique and sooooo worth your time. It too is a complete experience in a different way. Just a complete lusty tour de force. Find a hottie and have an hour of pleasure. Eat at the buffet. Have another hottie. Drink some beers. Have a sauna. Have another hottie. Get a massage. Nap a little. Have another. My max is five but I am a lightweight compared to some guys. It's truly heavenly but in a different way from the "one girl complete evening" thing. Both are awesome. If you are over 45 bring the Viagra. You will be glad you did. FKK is a MUST do for every man.
On SA in the states — be prepared for expense compared to elsewhere because prostitution is illegal and the legality or not sets the price throughout the world. In big cities you should expect $300 is a good deal. $400 common. And $500 the norm in NYC and SF for example. Don't be too discouraged by your Denver experience. You have to be very persistent. When I started looking in my home town I was having very average girls quoting $800. WTF? I was mystified and depressed. In the end found four girls who would all regularly see me at $300 PPM. It's a number game. Keep plugging away.
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Swiss FKK is Open
[QUOTE=Steve9696;2469193]I know this is not the FKK forum but to respond to your first comment above. I am totally a girlfriend type of guy. Love the dinner. Love the dancing. Love the flirting. It's the best. But FKK is unique and sooooo worth your time. It too is a complete experience in a different way. Just a complete lusty tour de force. Find a hottie and have an hour of pleasure. Eat at the buffet. Have another hottie. Drink some beers. Have a sauna. Have another hottie. Get a massage. Nap a little. Have another. My max is five but I am a lightweight compared to some guys. It's truly heavenly but in a different way from the "one girl complete evening" thing. Both are awesome. If you are over 45 bring the Viagra. You will be glad you did. FKK is a MUST do for every man.
On SA in the states be prepared for expense compared to elsewhere because prostitution is illegal and the legality or not sets the price throughout the world. In big cities you should expect $300 is a good deal. $400 common. And $500 the norm in NYC and SF for example. Don't be too discouraged by your Denver experience. You have to be very persistent. When I started looking in my home town I was having very average girls quoting $800. WTF? I was mystified and depressed. In the end found four girls who would all regularly see me at $300 PPM. It's a number game. Keep plugging away.[/QUOTE]German FKK is not open yet AFAIK. But Swiss is, including the legendary Globe. So is Aphrodisia not technically an FKK but a unique experience of its own. A small bar with 30+ hot girls and maybe 5-6 guys tops. Completely free - no cover and free drinks — including alcoholic drinks. WTF? They are betting that as you sip your free Scotch you will not be able to resist a hottie. So far they are right!
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[QUOTE=LshRoomer;2469146]
I tried SA in Denver and I found a lot of interest, but the SBs want too much for too little. They had that privileged vibe that I haven't seen much of in my normal stomping grounds (europe).
Let me know what you guys think.[/QUOTE]Covid is changing the rules for all of us. The reality is that none of us will be travelling freely PLUS every country will have a distrust of overseas visitors. The EU has already banned USA.
The common aspect of your adventures is that you are more attractive when you are from out of town.
One concept I am considering here in my town is creating my SA profile as an 'out of town' visitor that is visiting my home town. So my SA profile will be based in another city with the story that I will be in this town for regular periods. I just feel it may appeal to different ladies and the ones that say they want 'serious ongoing' may be more willing to take on a ONS knowing that I won't be here for long.
Just my strategy.
PP.
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[QUOTE=LshRoomer;2469146]
I'm considering the West Coast (Seattle / Vancouver / Portland) for some exploration. I have some clients over there and I love the weather and the vibe. Anybody got experience in this region? Any patterns / scams noticed, etc?
Let me know what you guys think.[/QUOTE]I tried SA in both Portland and Seattle. It was great in Portland, but I didn't have much luck in Seattle. In my experience, the bigger the city, the more chaotic is SA. So, I guess that's why Portland worked out better for me. In Portland, there are lots and lots of SBs, but not many rich guys. So, it's a buyers market. One time, when I suddenly found myself on a short one day business trip to Portland, I scanned SA during my lunch break and contacted a half dozen girls to see if any would be available that very night, and I actually got two girls that were ready and willing. I picked the cute skinny blonde. We had a great date, just shooting whisky and talking and laughing, and she stayed overnight and that was awesome, and then she even drove me to the airport the next day, haha. Sorry, I digress. Anyway, so yeah, SA in Portland is very good. I'm not basing this just on that one experience. I was in Portland somewhat regularly, and it was always pretty good. My typically price point was $300 PPM. Even that skinny blonde girl told me that she has so much competition with other SBs in Portland.
One caveat, my information is based on experience from a few years ago. The SA market in both of places may have changed.
And if you ever have to go to Seattle, you can hit the AMPS for FS. I use rubmaps to get intel on AMPS. But in general, even the AMPS in Seattle are not that good.
Finally, you also mentioned Vancouver. I don't have experience in Vancouver, but I do have experience in Niagara Falls, Canada. Wow, SA is fantastic in Niagara Falls. BUT you have to be willing to up the age a bit. Yes, there are 20-something SBs in Niagara Falls, but if you're willing to meet up with 30-somethings too, then you've hit the jackpot. So many SBs! I guess Niagara Falls is a place where almost everyone works in the tourism business, and they are all making low salaries, so a lot of them are on SA. My price point there was also $300 PPM, and this is in Canadian dollars. But again, you have to be willing to meet up with 30-somethings in Niagara Falls. There aren't many young gals there.
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[QUOTE=PilotPaul;2469199]Covid is changing the rules for all of us. The reality is that none of us will be travelling freely PLUS every country will have a distrust of overseas visitors. The EU has already banned USA.
The common aspect of your adventures is that you are more attractive when you are from out of town.
One concept I am considering here in my town is creating my SA profile as an 'out of town' visitor that is visiting my home town. So my SA profile will be based in another city with the story that I will be in this town for regular periods. I just feel it may appeal to different ladies and the ones that say they want 'serious ongoing' may be more willing to take on a ONS knowing that I won't be here for long.
Just my strategy.
PP.[/QUOTE]I appreciate the advice guys!
It sounds like 300 PPM is the going rate (approximately). That sounds about right. I would usually do 300 euro per meet so, this comes out cheaper after the exchange. Even though I don't speak very highly of Denver, it was actually a pretty decent meet and only cost me 200. I have my personal principles when it comes to paying 500. It's just not going to happen. I took that road early in my SA days. I wasn't thinking clearly at the time, but I'm glad I didn't pay her. She pretty much set the mood in my hotel room and them told me that I need to prove that I'm serious with 500 euro at that very moment. Again, that was my earlier, less experienced days.
Latinas. Love them. So I might have to try Mexico or South America. Your girl in the pics fit my type exactly!
As for the states you mentioned, you may be onto something. I'd be willing to try out Dallas or Baton Rouge. I just searched dallas in Seeking and the vibe of these girls already seems welcoming. I'm seeing more "let's hang out", and "whiskey drinker and intelligent", instead of "model looking for the perfect SD" or "Can you give the best" (Miami). LOL. A very different vibe that hopefully is reflected in the local prices.
FKK. Sounds amazing. Need to check it off the list definitely. I hadn't thought of being there for an extended amount of time to chill out. You mentioned 5 girls in a day, massages, chill, buffet. This sounds like a fucking amazing spa or something. Def going to give it a shot.
I've been to Aphrodisia. It's was an interesting experience. No cover, free drinks, etc. When I was there, it was only me (alone) and 2 other guys. There were probably about 10-12 girls hanging around. Definitely a new experience at the time. I wanted one girl, but there was a language gap. LOL. Most of the girls there were Romanian. I know a decent amount of romanian, so that made the experience a bit better. I don't' think I would go again (room rates felt high) but I would also recommend this place to anyone in town.
I have only had 2 meets in the states and both have been in Denver. I don't think international travel is in the cards anytime soon, so domestic SBs are now on the menu.
Out of town discussion. I'm always the OOT guy. It works for and against you. I usually try to bridge the gap by mentioning that I'm moving into the city, or that I'll be there very often (like once / twice a week) in order to cast the widest net and include the SB that don't like traveling guys. In your case, it's not a bad idea to play the travel game. Make sure your SB knows that you are always leaving, just came back, or about to leave (but keep in contact when you are "out of town". This is a major key in keeping her warm for your future visits) If you do this, she will fit more to your schedule because she understands "how busy you are" and there is a rapport because of your continued contact when you are so busy. She will magically understand (I'm serious. It's like they innately feel the need to relax you bc travel has been so rough for you) to keep you happy when you finally have a moment to rest from travel, and put your balls in her mouth, and why?. Because you're a great guy! LOL.
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Aphrodisia and Pain Points
Yeah sorry forgot to mention for others that Aphrodisia is heart stoppingly expensive. USD $280/ HALF hour. (If you have coin it is worth the experience. But it can't compare in value to Globe just across town at $140/ half — guaranteed GFE service. Or Germany at $65/ half hour at the FKKs. Of course the FKKs have $80-100 entry fee só doing one girl isn't very practical or cost effective.
Almost always the differences in Dollars other than legality is the EXPERIENCE not the girl. In Brazil you can have a spectacular half hour with a 7-8 for $30 (no lie) but if you want an experience go to Scandallo for a few hours and have a girl for one of those hours. Will set you back $300 or 10 X. It's the experience not the girl.
And yeah, Lshroomer I am like you. I have this mental block at $500/ HR just can't do it. Will keep looking till I find $400 or less even if it takes months! It's a hard stop for me. LOL.
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[QUOTE=Steve9696;2469363]Yeah sorry forgot to mention for others that Aphrodisia is heart stoppingly expensive. USD $280/ HALF hour. (If you have coin it is worth the experience. But it can't compare in value to Globe just across town at $140/ half guaranteed GFE service. Or Germany at $65/ half hour at the FKKs. Of course the FKKs have $80-100 entry fee s doing one girl isn't very practical or cost effective.
Almost always the differences in Dollars other than legality is the EXPERIENCE not the girl. In Brazil you can have a spectacular half hour with a 7-8 for $30 (no lie) but if you want an experience go to Scandallo for a few hours and have a girl for one of those hours. Will set you back $300 or 10 X. It's the experience not the girl.
And yeah, Lshroomer I am like you. I have this mental block at $500/ HR just can't do it. Will keep looking till I find $400 or less even if it takes months! It's a hard stop for me. LOL.[/QUOTE]I couldn't agree more. It's the experience 100%. For me, it's being in a new city (or new parts of a known city), having drinks, chilling in rooftop lounges, flirting, smoking shisha (hookah), and dining, all while thinking that I'll probably be balls deep in this girl by the end of the night. That is the "drug" that keeps me coming back.
I haven't been to Brazil before, but I've heard good things. And the picture that you painted of Brazil in your report sounds amazing. THis may be on my list when the world opens up as well. It looks like they want to start clinical trials for a COVID vaccine, so maybe early 2021 for international travel. Who knows?
02.
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SA subscription
Hello bothers,
Can someone please guide me about how can the one week subscription taken on SA be stopped from auto renewal of one doesn't want to continue. Thanks.
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[QUOTE=Steve9696;2469363]Yeah sorry forgot to mention for others that Aphrodisia is heart stoppingly expensive. USD $280/ HALF hour. (If you have coin it is worth the experience. But it can't compare in value to Globe just across town at $140/ half guaranteed GFE service. Or Germany at $65/ half hour at the FKKs. Of course the FKKs have $80-100 entry fee s doing one girl isn't very practical or cost effective.
Almost always the differences in Dollars other than legality is the EXPERIENCE not the girl. In Brazil you can have a spectacular half hour with a 7-8 for $30 (no lie) but if you want an experience go to Scandallo for a few hours and have a girl for one of those hours. Will set you back $300 or 10 X. It's the experience not the girl.
And yeah, Lshroomer I am like you. I have this mental block at $500/ HR just can't do it. Will keep looking till I find $400 or less even if it takes months! It's a hard stop for me. LOL.[/QUOTE]You are correct about the experience, but it is also about exclusivity. Who can gain access. The better girls don't want to deal with the tight spender, and the big spender do not want to wait. They want their €£¥ to get them to the front of the line.
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Scandallo Sneak Peak
[QUOTE=LshRoomer;2469393]I couldn't agree more. It's the experience 100%. For me, it's being in a new city (or new parts of a known city), having drinks, chilling in rooftop lounges, flirting, smoking shisha (hookah), and dining, all while thinking that I'll probably be balls deep in this girl by the end of the night. That is the "drug" that keeps me coming back.
I haven't been to Brazil before, but I've heard good things. And the picture that you painted of Brazil in your report sounds amazing. THis may be on my list when the world opens up as well. It looks like they want to start clinical trials for a COVID vaccine, so maybe early 2021 for international travel. Who knows?
02.[/QUOTE]I have quite a few Scandallo stories but this is the most recent, has some good color around the experience and is in fact the single best experience of my life considering the lead-up, a 9.5 in face and body, and a 9.5 in bed. It truly does not get better than Scandallo and Andressa. Those who like SA for the experience will enjoy Scandallo for the same reasons. And Brasileiras are unique worldwide in their GFE. It's never fake. They want to be there and totally commit for their time with you.
This was last summer.
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So it's the very last night of my trip and where else would I choose to go but Scandallo? I was drag ass tired and considered not going. What a mistake that would have been. So, professional that I am, I powered thru.
I roll up around 11 PM and it's quite packed like one would expect. First I spend a bit of time on the patio. It's more relaxed out there, before the crush of the club. A few pretty girls that are maybes but no one lights me up.
I decide to wade into the thick of it, which is the main area with the band and grab my second drink. And it's packed. Pretty much have to turn sideways to wend your way thru the crowd. I can't really estimate but surely over 100 girls just in that part, maybe 150? It is a buffet that is unequalled worldwide in my opinion.
I have a certain type and it's a very narrow window. So out of the 150 I will probably find 5 or less that are up my alley even tho they are all pretty in their own way. At some point Julliana from last week appears. She is a sweet girl and pretty and I would repeat under other circumstances. But not with such a target rich environment. So I give her a kiss and move on (later I find out she was pissed. But hey.).
I find one of the very best places to do the girl-buffet is up near the stage to the right. You can stand on the little step there and for some reason a lot of the ladies have a loop that goes right by there. But bear in mind others never leave the back of the room so you need to work both.
While the ladies are on parade there are one or two who catch my eye and I file them for future reference. One particular beauty is wearing a floral print top and matching wrap-around skirt. She has lovely dark eyes and long black hair. Tawny skin. Just my type. We make brief but meaningful eye contact.
This reminds me, it is very interesting how the game is played:
1 Eye contact and quick eye aversion. One of the parties is not interested. Move on.
2 Brief eye contact - 2-3 seconds. Dig you let's talk later.
3 Strong sustained eye contact. Let's talk right now baby.
The irony with number 2 is if you are careful not to let it go to defcon 3 then you only get a brief look at your girl. My tropical girl gets eye contact level 2 - I need further confirmation and file her for later.
Later when I am surveying from the back of the room, I notice that tropical-girl is next to me. I do another quick meeting of the eyes and then drop after a couple seconds. As I turn away, it hits me she is the one. So I reengage and turn towards her and engage her in my broken Portugus. (In retrospect I realize that she is not next to me by accident. She had marked me also after the first gaze and sought me out. Well good for her because she got it right!)
Wow fuck this girl is a real doll. We chat briefly but it's very loud in the club. So we adjourn to the couches in the hall. I'd never really noticed that there are nice couches lining the hall between the restaurant and the club. What a great place to get to know each other. And we do. She's got an architectural degree and hopes to practice soon. She says she loves Scandallo because it's so classy and I agree.
God she is beautiful and I need to move this to the next level but don't want to do a room and be done. So I ask if she wants a drink and does she like dancing. Sim and sim! (All discussion is Portugus. She knows no English.).
So we head back to the main part of the club. She is very girlfriendy, leading me by the hand. We get her a drink and find a section in the middle where there are some tables that create sufficient dancing space. So we put our drinks here and start some dancing. Well not really. More like hips to hips swaying regardless of the beat. And some grinding and gyrating.
The dancing is very sexy and intimate. One of the things that melts my soul is when a girl looks deep into my eyes. Not enough of this so far this trip including my spectacular BA girlfriend. So when Andressa concentrates those liquid browns on mine it is delicious. We lean in and kiss a little. Light stuff at first. A little tongue mixed in as things progress. I honestly enjoy this as much as the room. I did it with Josy for an hour or so last week and loved it. With Andressa it is not the full on tongue tangled mackin like Josy, but very pleasant. And the balance will tip toward Andressa In the room, where she is a goddess.
After 20 minutes or it could be a half hour of dance-flirting I think we were both ready for the room. We do it via Google translate. She initiates with "What do you like to do during sex". Nice. I like the directness. "I like blowjob without condom. And kissing in missionary". Hoping just for an OK, I instead get a surprising "I love BJ without condom. " Which clearly is no lie we discover later.
The room is down the elevator and back up the stairs. R200 at the counter. Again led by the hand, we find our room.
Standing by the bed she faces me and does the full on liquid brown eyes and we kiss a bit. She then turns around and I untie her top. This BFGF part is very sexy and I love when girls do it. It's the first exposure to her tits and they are spectacular BeeCups. Super fine. We get her skirt off as well and then she undoes my buttons and belt. I love being undressed and she is very sexy doing it.
After showers she puts me on my back, straddles me, and sexily crawls up me till we are face to face and plants a strong kiss on me. Love kissing her. She lies fully on top of me, naked junk to lady parts. Gets me rather hard just moving our hips.
Then like a sexy cat she crawls back down and takes me in her mouth, never breaking eye contact. And she is VERY good downstairs. Top one or two of the trip. Lots of licking while giving the doe eyes. Plenty of BLS. A nice buffet of blowjob. Fortunately her being the tenth (ish) fuck of the trip I have plenty of stamina and don't threaten a stack-blowing despite her skills.
Now it's her turn as I turn her on her back. I start by just kissing her deeply but then work down to those spectacular tits. She doesn't get the mega hard nipples like Jana the prior night but she seems to respond in a basic way. Now it's time to move on down.
I take my time going there hoping to get her worked up. When I reach the goal I start some really good tongue work. Her clit is a bit covered so I push up the surrounding flesh to get better access (learned this recently). But despite this, the response is pretty demure. At five or so minutes in, I think she is bored and maybe I should stop. But I do something right and get a little breath intake and head grab. So I keep at it. Sure enough she is just a super slow build.
I spend quite some time working on her as she slow-builds. The magic ticket tho is when I work my index finger inside and curl it back to her Gspot. Using both tongue and fingers is getting her super hot and bothered. I start to feel a small wave and then a huge bucking wave of pussy clamps. Don't know that I've felt that strong a reaction inside a pussy ever before. Made me feel great that I could get her off like that.
Afterwards she just lies fully spent just staring up at me with something like admiration or gratitude. This was no act. She is like a limp wet fish so completely satisfied. But she wants to reciprocate so does a bit more BJ then she grabs the condom and starts riding cowgirl. What a sight! Perfect tits pressed together. Sometimes she'll throw her head back and put her arms back and lean back, just letting go. Fuck she is a stunner -- like a 9. 5.
She switches to RCG which I don't usually prefer but she does a great job. After a while I move her to her back and plunge into Mish. This is really really good. Lots of Mish kissing but she seems to like it best when she buried her face in my neck and wraps her legs strong around me. This is so fine I think I may cum in Mish which I love. But it fades.
In the end, we roll over and lose the condom and she works me by mouth. She has to use every trick in the book and is down at least another ten minutes maybe more. Spectacular climax with ten minutes left on the room.
So we shower, I get her number (ALWAYS do this with Brasileiras) and later get some model-level pics the next day via WhatsApp. Wow what a girl!
P.S. If anyone wants other Brazil Boate stories Scandallo, Bomboa, Casarao etc. Just hit me up with a message.
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[QUOTE=Gussy;2469453]Hello bothers,
Can someone please guide me about how can the one week subscription taken on SA be stopped from auto renewal of one doesn't want to continue. Thanks.[/QUOTE]Go to Setting, Payment to cancel but I don't know about weekly subscription.
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[QUOTE=Gussy;2469453]Hello bothers,
Can someone please guide me about how can the one week subscription taken on SA be stopped from auto renewal of one doesn't want to continue. Thanks.[/QUOTE]Which country are you that has a one week option? Here in Aust is a one month minimum.
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Honest Mistake
[QUOTE=PilotPaul;2469506]Which country are you that has a one week option? Here in Aust is a one month minimum.[/QUOTE]Hello brothers,
My apologies, it's one Month and not one week.
I did that faux pas.
Anyways.
What's the way out.
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[QUOTE=Gussy;2469609]Hello brothers,
My apologies, it's one Month and not one week.
[/QUOTE]No problem, I was just thinking I was missing out.
I have previously had a one week subscription from SA. Their signup process had made me a "sugarbabe" instead of a sugardaddy, My subscription price was USD20 for a month which I paid before realizing the problem. SA customer service switched my profile and rather than refund the $$ they gave me a 7 day subscription as a SD.
The way out of your subscription is to go into your Account settings / Subscription and just removed the autorenewal. I always suggest deleting or card details also.
PP.
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[QUOTE=Vendelo;2412827]I joined SA about two mos ago. FYI, I am in the San Francisco area.
At first I received a lot of favorites and messages. Most were from my area. Some were from Venezuela, Phillipines, Europe and Africa.
So far I have met 9 women. The first mtgs were M&G over drinks where I offered $200 to show I was serious. Recap:
1. Eastern Euro. She appeared about 10 years older than pics. Was 30 min late to a bar that was 5 min from her place. Not seeing her again.
2. Early 20's Filipina. She changed the time by 3 hours while I was halfway to meeting. Made you turn and then I blocked.
3. Mainland Chinese. Late 20's. Hot bod. Boring. Wants $500 per mtg. I'm not interested. Bye!
4. 30 yr old Latina. Very good looking. Have hung out two more times. Platonic and I'm OK with that. A little too fussy and bossy. Probably done with her.
5. Viet. 23. Cute. Hung out twice. Too far to drive. I'm done.
6. Early 30's Colombian. Holy fuck. Hot! Wants $500 for two hours. I'm done.
7. 27 yr old Taiwanese. Cute. Drinks too much. A little psycho. I'm done.
8. 22 yr old in Guadalajara. Cute. Fatter in person. Nice girl. I'm done.
9. 23 yr old Filipina. Very cute. Enjoyed convo. Wants $500 per mtg. No time limit. Will see again because I am horny.[/QUOTE]So you would give a $200 allowance for the first M & G, without any actions? Wow, this is the USA. I am so used to the FKK scene in Europe. For $200, I could bang a hot chic at FKK Globe in Zurich a la public sex style.
With all the current EU travel bans against Americans, I now have no choice but to learn how to play in the USA.
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[QUOTE=Steve9696;2415544]Best to just do it when traveling. Two big problems locally finding a place to meet up that is discreet and if you book the hotel it will have your name and probsbly address on it. Better to stick to traveling only. Might consider locally an advanced skill if at all.
If you are a girl enthusiast then having a burner phone is pretty much a must. Treat it like a live grenade tho. Never use your real name with a girl ever. At least that's my advise if you have something to lose.[/QUOTE]There is an alternative to a burner phone. I have used the KIK app to communicate with the girls. It's anonymous I think.
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[QUOTE=DiverOyster;2469746]There is an alternative to a burner phone. I have used the KIK app to communicate with the girls. It's anonymous I think.[/QUOTE]My experience is that most women in US want phone numbers so a messaging app is not useful.
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Hushed app
[QUOTE=Nounce;2469754]My experience is that most women in US want phone numbers so a messaging app is not useful.[/QUOTE]I use the Hushed app. It's a phone number. You can use it for calling or for texting. It used to be clunky, but now it's great. Girls call and text me on it all the time, and they think it's my real cell phone number.
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[QUOTE=DiverOyster;2469744]So you would give a $200 allowance for the first M & G, without any actions? Wow, this is the USA. I am so used to the FKK scene in Europe. For $200, I could bang a hot chic at FKK Globe in Zurich a la public sex style.
With all the current EU travel bans against Americans, I now have no choice but to learn how to play in the USA.[/QUOTE]You don't have to give $200 for the first M&G. Some gals ask for it, but just move to the next gal. Sometimes, I might say okay to $40, because maybe they have to pay for their Uber, but not often, since I tell them to suggest a meeting spot near them. If you pay $200 for M&G, then jeezus, what would they want for PPM?
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SA subscription
[QUOTE=PilotPaul;2469735]No problem, I was just thinking I was missing out.
I have previously had a one week subscription from SA. Their signup process had made me a "sugarbabe" instead of a sugardaddy, My subscription price was USD20 for a month which I paid before realizing the problem. SA customer service switched my profile and rather than refund the $$ they gave me a 7 day subscription as a SD.
The way out of your subscription is to go into your Account settings / Subscription and just removed the autorenewal. I always suggest deleting or card details also.
PP.[/QUOTE]Thanks brother.
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No Upfront
[QUOTE=Midwestern;2469768]You don't have to give $200 for the first M&G. Some gals ask for it, but just move to the next gal. Sometimes, I might say okay to $40, because maybe they have to pay for their Uber, but not often, since I tell them to suggest a meeting spot near them. If you pay $200 for M&G, then jeezus, what would they want for PPM?[/QUOTE]Agree with MW. Not sure what Vendelo was saying about giving $200 for a meet and greet. Definitely super bad practice and not advised, nor necessary. Any girl that wants money up front is a hard pass. If they ask for CashApp upfront that's an instablock.
As MW says you can offer to pay her Uber or better yet send her one (burner phone helps here too) but this is not expected or must do. Most girls when I've offered that have been pleasantly surprised.
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Bumble and Tinder girls
[QUOTE=GentlemanTravel;2468484]I've been trying to see if I can meet recruit a SB without resorting to SA. Maybe it's just a prejudice or my imagination, but I am concerned that girls off SA will be too professional or expect too much $$ I am kind of a "Sugar Daddy Lite"....
In the two weeks or so of doing this I have had a handful of responses, some reasonably direct about compensation. Generally I have not been too aggressive or direct in my responses on the theory that these girls are not escorts and some may be shy talking about money. Ex-SB thinks I'm wrong and need to close the deal more quickly before the girls get swamped with other messages, as they tend to on Tinder.
At first I was getting almost no interest on Bumble, which you may know is different in that the girl has to make the first contact. So you're kind of helpless there. But then, after two weeks, I suddenly got a small crop of responses there and at least two excellent prospects. I have now met with those two prospects who are basically a 7 (okay cute, big tits but also not slender) and an 8 (pretty and slender but modest tits). I've had explicit discussions with them about expectations about prices and service (BBBJ) and we've agreed on $250 per meeting, which I think is a pretty good price and may eventually include them hosting. The 8 has had SDs before but the 7 has not.
I have not test-driven either of them yet, just had drinks on a patio, but should bag one later this week and the other early next week. So I will see how this all works out. And GOD, it's a relief from the boredom of lockdown!
Oh, and after I had connected with both these Bumble girls off-line, my profile on Bumble got tagged and taken down. Now I am shut out of that particular honey-pot. So it's a good thing I migrated off the site when I did![/QUOTE]Just to follow up on my earlier report. I have now test-driven the 8 from Bumble and it was quite a good experience. She was even cuter than I remembered (so verging on a 9) and was eager to get down to business when we met.
Maybe even a little too eager. I like to take things slowly to let the excitement build. But she was keen to get naked and start blowing me, so who am I to complain? Originally we were going to have to postpone our date because she got her period, but after gently suggesting that I would be open to an all-oral encounter, she eagerly agreed! Some girl just feel awful during their period and some girls get extra horny. She is the latter.
So she blew me to completion (CIM) but I don't think she swallowed. I didn't insist, this time.
Then she decided that her period was not so serious at the time, so for the second round I fucked her and she blew me before and after. So that was nice.
All this for $250, so that was a pretty good deal.
All the same, it felt a little bit escorty, which took some of the romance out of it. But all the same, it was a pretty good GFE combined with her doing whatever I wanted, so again, who's to complain?
Bizarrely, she seems to have a good job, has a car, her own apartment, etc, so why she is fucking an old guy like me for a few hundred bucks every few weeks, is a bit of a mystery. She may have another SD or two, but cannot be doing this too often, because her job is pretty demanding. So she is not a real escort with clients every day. Just me and maybe another guy a couple of time a month.
Anyway, I've experienced this before, so I just accept it without understanding.
Banging Bumble#2 later this week. Will see how that goes.
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2469765]I use the Hushed app. It's a phone number. You can use it for calling or for texting. It used to be clunky, but now it's great. Girls call and text me on it all the time, and they think it's my real cell phone number.[/QUOTE]I didn't know about Hushed. That's a good option.
Another option to consider is Google Voice. I have used this in the US and just like MW, you have a real number, with an area code that you can choose (if you told the girl you are from a certain city, etc). I have been able to call / text just like normal and as I have stated before, it is linked to my monger email account that I can ghost at any moment. Keep your options open.
02.
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[QUOTE=Steve9696;2469856]Agree with MW. Not sure what Vendelo was saying about giving $200 for a meet and greet. Definitely super bad practice and not advised, nor necessary. Any girl that wants money up front is a hard pass. If they ask for CashApp upfront that's an instablock.
As MW says you can offer to pay her Uber or better yet send her one (burner phone helps here too) but this is not expected or must do. Most girls when I've offered that have been pleasantly surprised.[/QUOTE]Steve covered this already and his advice is spot on! But my gosh I have to be a second voice to seriously emphasize what we have been saying for a while now, that you should not be paying to meet the girl! Nothing! That is extremely bad practice. You can't put the girl in the driver's seat. She wants what's in your wallet and you want what's in her pants. Neither has a higher value (unless you assign a higher value to it). In all honesty, if she wants to compare how much time is worth, then in most cases they should be paying us. Comparing a professional's rate per hour to a college (or fresh out of college) girl's pay rate easily shows that our time is worth more (example: a consultant making 250/ HR compared to single mom / college girl making 20/ HR.). Just saying.
I personally don't allow much direction from the girl early on. I pick the initial venues for safety, etc. After I know her a bit, I don't mind going to places that she likes. I had one girl that I was getting along with great and we were supposed to meet for lunch. I probably would have been banging her that night. We were supposed to meet at 1 pm. She texted me, "Call me an uber at 1230". What? LOL. No request? Not "Can you call me an uber?" (I would have). I don't take kindly to demands. I probably suffer from having too many choices and attention on SA, but I cut her at that moment. No questions, no response, nothing. Move on to the next girl that I actually called an Uber for because she asked very nicely. LOL. My tolerance is almost nonexistent for demands, rudeness, greedy requests, or anything that's generally not nice. IMHO, we need to meet respectfully in the middle. After we decide to take the arrangement path, then we can have a great time as long as the benefits continue to flow freely in both directions. WIth that being said, I don't mind calling Uber to bring the girls to me. They usually like the gesture and it starts the communion on the right foot, but that is the most out of pocket that should be spent with an initial M&G IMHO.
02.
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[QUOTE=LshRoomer;2469927]Steve covered this already and his advice is spot on! But my gosh I have to be a second voice to seriously emphasize what we have been saying for a while now, that you should not be paying to meet the girl! Nothing! That is extremely bad practice. You can't put the girl in the driver's seat. She wants what's in your wallet and you want what's in her pants. Neither has a higher value (unless you assign a higher value to it). In all honesty, if she wants to compare how much time is worth, then in most cases they should be paying us. Comparing a professional's rate per hour to a college (or fresh out of college) girl's pay rate easily shows that our time is worth more (example: a consultant making 250/ HR compared to single mom / college girl making 20/ HR.). Just saying.
I personally don't allow much direction from the girl early on. I pick the initial venues for safety, etc. After I know her a bit, I don't mind going to places that she likes. I had one girl that I was getting along with great and we were supposed to meet for lunch. I probably would have been banging her that night. We were supposed to meet at 1 pm. She texted me, "Call me an uber at 1230". What? LOL. No request? Not "Can you call me an uber?" (I would have). I don't take kindly to demands. I probably suffer from having too many choices and attention on SA, but I cut her at that moment. No questions, no response, nothing. Move on to the next girl that I actually called an Uber for because she asked very nicely. LOL. My tolerance is almost nonexistent for demands, rudeness, greedy requests, or anything that's generally not nice. IMHO, we need to meet respectfully in the middle. After we decide to take the arrangement path, then we can have a great time as long as the benefits continue to flow freely in both directions. WIth that being said, I don't mind calling Uber to bring the girls to me. They usually like the gesture and it starts the communion on the right foot, but that is the most out of pocket that should be spent with an initial M&G IMHO..[/QUOTE]I entirely second that. Any girl that is that demanding and disrespectful will be a handful. And you are unlikely to get a good experience. No matter how much you pay her, it will not be enough. We are not looking for high maintainace girls who behave like cheap hookers.
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[QUOTE=Akibono;2470007]I entirely second that. Any girl that is that demanding and disrespectful will be a handful. And you are unlikely to get a good experience. No matter how much you pay her, it will not be enough. We are not looking for high maintainace girls who behave like cheap hookers.[/QUOTE]It is amazing how many newbies there are on SA that fill this above profile. Girls join the site expecting that guys will be sending cash gifts there way just because they are girls. There may be the 0. 01% of SB that the stories / blogs get written about. These girls are stunners and performers I am sure.
For the majority of girls that join they need to accept that it's going to be cash for sex.
It would be interesting to know the SA stats on average life of a girl profile. So many seem to go dormant after 2-3 days and never come back.
Here's a SA protip. Did you know you can get a new profile with someone else's valid email address? If you think that a girl has blocked you, go to your incognito browser window, register a new account using the enquiry address of your local tyre shop or some other random but valid address ie [EMAIL]elonm@tesla.com[/EMAIL] or [EMAIL]sales@mytyreshop.co.uk[/EMAIL] . Then hit SKIP on all of the profile setup. You can now search profiles as needed. As long as you keep this incognito browser open, the login stays. Presumably the email will get the confirmation email into spam or ignore.
PP.
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Rates
I got the paid membership for the site couple of days back and it's been quiet an experience.
I get 10's of chicks from Venezuela and ever a few in US that want money for nude pics and videos. That's a pass, why would I pay money when so much is on the internet for free.
I haven't met anyone for lunch / dinner yet but looks like every one wants $500 per meeting one even wanted $1000 for each meeting and $5000 monthly, I'm not paying that kind of money.
There was one that wanted $200 to see me. She looked liked a hooker to begin with.
Then there was one that had the pictures of a beautiful blonde European girl but asked me to send gas money so she can come see me. Smelled like a scam from a mile away. Another one wanted me to send her $30 so she knows I'm serious. Waste of time. But that shows me there are guys falling for these scams.
Someone commented that average girl has a pretty short lifespan on SA, I agree with that.
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[QUOTE=Luminous;2470308]
I haven't met anyone for lunch / dinner yet but looks like every one wants $500 per meeting one even wanted $1000 for each meeting and $5000 monthly, I'm not paying that kind of money.
[/QUOTE]Sounds like you are getting the entire gambit of claims. You can set filters on your messages which will ignore messages from girls more than Xx KMs away. That solves your Venezuelan problemo.
Think of the ridiculously high prices for virgin Japanese hillside wagyu beef hand raised by virgin heoibikuni as being on your favourite restaurant menu. It's reassuring to hear your 'venue' has high priced items but nobody is buying it. It simply serves to drag up the lower end prices.
Just remember it is the internet, be willing to block the obvious scams and put your mind the your defined target. Be sure to be specific about what you are seeking.
PP.
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Spend some time to find the needles in the haystack
[QUOTE=Luminous;2470308]I got the paid membership for the site couple of days back and it's been quiet an experience.
I get 10's of chicks from Venezuela and ever a few in US that want money for nude pics and videos. That's a pass, why would I pay money when so much is on the internet for free.
I haven't met anyone for lunch / dinner yet but looks like every one wants $500 per meeting one even wanted $1000 for each meeting and $5000 monthly, I'm not paying that kind of money.
There was one that wanted $200 to see me. She looked liked a hooker to begin with.
Then there was one that had the pictures of a beautiful blonde European girl but asked me to send gas money so she can come see me. Smelled like a scam from a mile away. Another one wanted me to send her $30 so she knows I'm serious. Waste of time. But that shows me there are guys falling for these scams.
Someone commented that average girl has a pretty short lifespan on SA, I agree with that.[/QUOTE]I contacted and chatted with hundreds of SBs over a 20 month period. Maybe I chatted with a 1000. I ended up only agreeing to meet 50-100, and then eventually hooked up with 23-25. That's not bad. That's hooking up with a non-pro hottie more than once per month. About half of them became regulars that lasted for a few months. Again, not bad. But it was like a full time job. I was on SA for hours every day to find these few gems. So, gems are out there, but it takes time.
I look for genuine stories on SA. Examples include the bored 23 year old recent college graduate who moved back in with her parents, or the nanny that needs extra income to pay her rent in a big city, or the graduate student who is tired on living on a limited budget, or the person who quit her job to start a new business. Stuff like that.
I also avoided SBs that were SA members for longer than a few months. Those SBs have become jaded and are pretty much pros now IMHO.
The profiles that just said, "SB wants to be spoiled by her SD" or "Just want to have fun" are ones that I just passed over. This is mostly because I was looking for semi-genuine GFE.
Good luck.
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Seeking
Just wanted to thanks you guys for sharing your stories and experiences using SA.
I come from a small city in Canada so there is not a lot going on here in what I am looking for (Asian) on SA. At the present moment there are only 3 active Asian women in my city or within 100 miles and at my winter home in Mexico there are none! I did have a nice time with a young university student last year, I just love the way they take care of you.
That being said, I have been planning a trip to China but I guess I will put that on hold until this virus settles down. I have made contact with a few women in Hong Kong recently, lining up a few to visit while I am there. In our conversations most of them saying they enjoy making investments but none of them pushing me to invest which is strange. I have figured out almost all of them are living in mainland China but have a HK area code.
Thanks for sharing and I will contribute where and when I can.
Travel.
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Bizarre Influx!
Well I've been struggling a bit locally. Met one girl for lunch but she was a newbie and got cold feet the next day. Lesson: Stick to evening meetups and close the deal that night.
After struggling I widened my filter to wider age range and OK with kids. Much more active last couple days. Four girls looking quite likely (with age and kid downsides). But here's the funny thing — two are under 5 ft Latinas. One 4-9 and the other 4-10. Not kidding. WTF? A rush on tiny Latinas! They both seem DTF. One more a pro. One sorta new but not shy.
Oh and $400 keeps emerging as "the price". It's kinda funny actually like there is price fixing!
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[QUOTE=Travel902;2470496]
That being said, I have been planning a trip to China but I guess I will put that on hold until this virus settles down. I have made contact with a few women in Hong Kong recently, lining up a few to visit while I am there. In our conversations most of them saying they enjoy making investments but none of them pushing me to invest which is strange. I have figured out almost all of them are living in mainland China but have a HK area code.
l.[/QUOTE]Sorry to suggest this, but all of the chinese women that purport to be 'investors' are out to scam you. It's easy to get phone numbers from anywhere and use whatsapp. If you consider that wechat is the mainland China communications app of choice why they using whatsapp? To avoid being monitored. The girls even say that hey don't have Whatsapp. Which is unlikely. Sadly these 'investment' girls are just playing the love scam for fraud.
That being said there are millions of beautiful asian and chinese girls who are worthy of pursuit. For me, I love the cute things they wear or the way they will tie their hair etc.
For the next year though, we have to find avenues closer to home. Can I suggest you broaden your search from "asian" to "mixed". Perhaps their are girls of mixed heritage that will still have those wonderful asian eyes.
PP.
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The market
[QUOTE=Steve9696;2470524]Well I've been struggling a bit locally. Met one girl for lunch but she was a newbie and got cold feet the next day. Lesson: Stick to evening meetups and close the deal that night.
After struggling I widened my filter to wider age range and OK with kids. Much more active last couple days. Four girls looking quite likely (with age and kid downsides). But here's the funny thing two are under 5 ft Latinas. One 4-9 and the other 4-10. Not kidding. WTF? A rush on tiny Latinas! They both seem DTF. One more a pro. One sorta new but not shy.
Oh and $400 keeps emerging as "the price". It's kinda funny actually like there is price fixing![/QUOTE]Once one guy pays $400, girls will try to make $400 the going rate. These girls talk to each other, just like we do. Girls do equate their self worth w the amount they get. They also compete w each other. If one gets $350, her friend (and competitor) wants $400 for bragging rights and to establish her place in the female hierarchy. Keeping an SB is a lot of work. The increased drama comes w a lower, albeit regular and reliable allowance (if they treat their guy well).
In short, the increased rate is caused by other guys providing too much cash to these girls. Wait for the market to put things back in perspective. Giving in means you accept the change.
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WTF it's a Trend!
[QUOTE=Steve9696;2470524]Well I've been struggling a bit locally. Met one girl for lunch but she was a newbie and got cold feet the next day. Lesson: Stick to evening meetups and close the deal that night.
After struggling I widened my filter to wider age range and OK with kids. Much more active last couple days. Four girls looking quite likely (with age and kid downsides). But here's the funny thing two are under 5 ft Latinas. One 4-9 and the other 4-10. Not kidding. WTF? A rush on tiny Latinas! They both seem DTF. One more a pro. One sorta new but not shy.
Oh and $400 keeps emerging as "the price". It's kinda funny actually like there is price fixing![/QUOTE]Just got pinged by another 4-9 Latina. WTF? Am I on the digs tiny Latinas playlist? This is just too strange.
Good news is I am set to meet one of them at her place Wednesday. She's clearly fairly pro. And oh BTW, biggest tell if she is a pro is she calls you "hun" or "love". LOL. Seems consistent.
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Law of one price, older SBs, and short latinas
Simple laws of supply and demand means there will be an equilibrium price. So, if everyone is quoting 400, then that's probably the equilibrium price where the market clears. It'll be hard to find lower prices, but they can be found. Sometimes though, you get what you pay for, if you know what I mean.
Steve, expanding your search to include older SBs isn't necessarily a bad thing. I met some that were in their 40's. I don't think I had any bad experiences. In fact, most were amazing in the sack, and most provided genuine GFE. But they are a bit less fun, that's all.
Yeah, I also noticed the short latinas when I was active on SA. But after having been with gals just shy of 5 feet, I set my filter to 5 feet 2.
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[QUOTE=Jckgmn;2470540]Once one guy pays $400, girls will try to make $400 the going rate. These girls talk to each other, just like we do. Girls do equate their self worth w the amount they get. They also compete w each other. If one gets $350, her friend (and competitor) wants $400 for bragging rights and to establish her place in the female hierarchy. Keeping an SB is a lot of work. The increased drama comes w a lower, albeit regular and reliable allowance (if they treat their guy well).
In short, the increased rate is caused by other guys providing too much cash to these girls. Wait for the market to put things back in perspective. Giving in means you accept the change.[/QUOTE]Girls talk to each other in FKKs or brothels. They talk to each other if they know other sugarbabes. If you are logging in as a sugar babe seeking sugar daddy, you are not able to see the profile of other sugar babes nor contact them. I don't know how you think all the sugar babes talk to each other, and how they come to know about the money you paid to another sugar babe. If they already happened to know each other, yes, then they would.
In the city I live, there are literally hundreds listed at any given time actively seeking, in the white, slim, 20-30 age category. They are scattered throughout the greater metro area and into the suburbs. I know for a fact that very few of them know each other.
And no, there is no market. One of the frustrating things about sugar babe business is precisely that many girls have no clear clue what is the market. Some real pretty girls ask relatively cheap amounts and some so so hags ask for 350 or 400. If they have another friend who has been a sugarbabe in the past, the new girl may have an idea what to expect. Otherwise, they are just randomly guessing. I also had sugar babes who asked for 300 or 350 but ended up accepting 200 to 250. If you are patient, nice but firm, and negotiate gently, you will get good deals.
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Small gals
[QUOTE=Steve9696;2470548]Just got pinged by another 4-9 Latina. WTF? Am I on the digs tiny Latinas playlist? This is just too strange.
Good news is I am set to meet one of them at her place Wednesday. She's clearly fairly pro. And oh BTW, biggest tell if she is a pro is she calls you "hun" or "love". LOL. Seems consistent.[/QUOTE]I've had a few small gals. On the one hand, you feel huge and awesome, not just dick size huge, but you feel like a massive person, so it's kind of a turn on. On the other hand, you feel like you're fucking a toy, LOL.
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2470619]I've had a few small gals. On the one hand, you feel huge and awesome, not just dick size huge, but you feel like a massive person, so it's kind of a turn on. On the other hand, you feel like you're fucking a toy, LOL.[/QUOTE]I think I like small girls. I say "think" because I have never had a less than 5' girl but I have had plenty of 5'2 or 5'3 girls and I love the difference in stature. As long as their ass fits right on my dick when I'm grinding on her from the back, then we are good to go. It's definitely a turn on.
Personally my sweet spot is 5'5 or 5'6 with nice tits and thin (not skinny) body. "Thin" in this case meaning athletic (jeans size 3 or 4. 2 can be a bit small, I need hips to grab), nice ass, normal abs, and taking care of yourself, not simply "not fat" because you are young and your bad habits haven't caught up with you.
02.
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I'm hoping this isn't the case
[QUOTE=Midwestern;2470571]Simple laws of supply and demand means there will be an equilibrium price. So, if everyone is quoting 400, then that's probably the equilibrium price where the market clears. It'll be hard to find lower prices, but they can be found. Sometimes though, you get what you pay for, if you know what I mean.
Steve, expanding your search to include older SBs isn't necessarily a bad thing. I met some that were in their 40's. I don't think I had any bad experiences. In fact, most were amazing in the sack, and most provided genuine GFE. But they are a bit less fun, that's all.
Yeah, I also noticed the short latinas when I was active on SA. But after having been with gals just shy of 5 feet, I set my filter to 5 feet 2.[/QUOTE]I'm hoping 400 isn't the new norm. This sounds like it's creeping slowly towards $500 and I just have something against a half grand for a night of fun. I probably spend 500 in total, but that includes the food, drinks, cabs, etc, not cash directly to the girl.
That 300 number is my sweet spot personally or I try to work out something that's a bit non traditional. When I'm in a new city, I would tell the SB that I'll be in her city very often meaning weeks at a time, therefore I need a weekly price, don't hit me with this PPM shit. This approach has been a winner and it gets them out of the mentality of wanting cash every time we meet. I have had good deals that weren't fully cash based and they were great. Note: I have never been able to pull this off in the US.
Have any of you guys been able to work out trade or anything with an SB that wasn't simply cash for ass.
02.
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Other than cash
[QUOTE=LshRoomer;2470971]I'm hoping 400 isn't the new norm. This sounds like it's creeping slowly towards $500 and I just have something against a half grand for a night of fun. I probably spend 500 in total, but that includes the food, drinks, cabs, etc, not cash directly to the girl.
That 300 number is my sweet spot personally or I try to work out something that's a bit non traditional. When I'm in a new city, I would tell the SB that I'll be in her city very often meaning weeks at a time, therefore I need a weekly price, don't hit me with this PPM shit. This approach has been a winner and it gets them out of the mentality of wanting cash every time we meet. I have had good deals that weren't fully cash based and they were great. Note: I have never been able to pull this off in the US.
Have any of you guys been able to work out trade or anything with an SB that wasn't simply cash for ass.[/QUOTE]Certainly I have had girls travel with me. I brought an unknown Ukrainian girl to France (a success) and another to Turkey (disaster). The Colombian girl I dated (for the 2 weeks I was there) did not expect daily $$, but we had wild evenings out and I must have given her some kind of spending money. But later she joined me on a vacation in Colombia and I don't think I gave her any cash for that, just paid all the expenses and provided her with some adventures.
The Ukrainian girl I took to France. I guess I should say "lady" because she was 40 - was the oldest woman I've dated like this. Normally they are more like 20-25, with some up to 30. Certainly I didn't pay her anything but of course the trip was expensive. Despite her advanced years she was always the best looking woman (dressed very nicely, too, of course) in any restaurant or tour we were on. So my eyes were never wandering and we were perfectly comfortable walking arm in arm all the time, whereas sometimes it is a bit awkward with a really young girl.
One hometown (Canadian city) sugar baby I had come visit me in while I was on a business trip to Montreal. I must have paid her expenses, but I don't think she asked for a per meeting fee. She took the train for two hours, wearing only sexy lingerie underneath her trenchcoat, so she could unveil herself as soon as she entered my hotel room. She had been working herself up to a great state of horniness, being half-naked on the train. Then she insisted wearing something quite risque when we went out for dinner, and stopped to kiss often in the street and at the restaurant, so clearly she was getting as much out of the experience as I was! You meet all kinds.
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Cellphones for sex
[QUOTE=LshRoomer;2470971]I'm hoping 400 isn't the new norm. This sounds like it's creeping slowly towards $500 and I just have something against a half grand for a night of fun. I probably spend 500 in total, but that includes the food, drinks, cabs, etc, not cash directly to the girl.
That 300 number is my sweet spot personally or I try to work out something that's a bit non traditional. When I'm in a new city, I would tell the SB that I'll be in her city very often meaning weeks at a time, therefore I need a weekly price, don't hit me with this PPM shit. This approach has been a winner and it gets them out of the mentality of wanting cash every time we meet. I have had good deals that weren't fully cash based and they were great. Note: I have never been able to pull this off in the US.
Have any of you guys been able to work out trade or anything with an SB that wasn't simply cash for ass.[/QUOTE]Oh, and cellphones. If you are travelling to countries with heavy import duties or crappy marketplaces, lots of girls will want cellphones. Depending on the difference between prices in your country and hers, this can be quite a good deal. Pick up a refurbished iPhone and bring it along with you and it looks like you are giving her an $800 present, but probably cost you half that. Plus there may be a prestige factor for her, because that phone isn't available in her country. Plus she can show it off to her family and girlfriends "my new boyfriend gave this to me" - she can't really do that with the $400 you gave her instead. And now I recall, that was the deal with my Colombian girl in my preceding post. She asked me to bring her a cellphone, which I gave her after a few days of fucking, so I didn't get stuck giving a phone for a one-night stand. She was in heaven!
But generally, other stuff you give (Other than trips, which benefit you) are generally going to be more expensive than just giving cash. And I think it's stupid buying perfume in the airport duty free, although that's what many girls ask for. But cash is always more useful to a 3rd world girl. But it may be more pleasant for you and for her to simply have these presents instead of cold cash.
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[QUOTE=LshRoomer;2470971]I'm hoping 400 isn't the new norm. This sounds like it's creeping slowly towards $500 and I just have something against a half grand for a night of fun. I probably spend 500 in total, but that includes the food, drinks, cabs, etc, not cash directly to the girl.
That 300 number is my sweet spot personally or I try to work out something that's a bit non traditional. When I'm in a new city, I would tell the SB that I'll be in her city very often meaning weeks at a time, therefore I need a weekly price, don't hit me with this PPM shit. This approach has been a winner and it gets them out of the mentality of wanting cash every time we meet. I have had good deals that weren't fully cash based and they were great. Note: I have never been able to pull this off in the US.
Have any of you guys been able to work out trade or anything with an SB that wasn't simply cash for ass.
02.[/QUOTE]400 isn't the equilibrium price for the entire market. I am just saying that if every girl in a LOCAL market is quoting the same price, then that's probably the equilibrium price of the local market. In SF, the equilibrium price was 500 a few years ago when I was active in SF. Some girls quoted 400, but they were on the wrong side of being a 7. Some girls quoted higher than 500, but eventually, they couldn't get enough action and most came down to 500 or disappeared. In other cities, the equilibrium price will usually be lower. For example, in Portland, OR, it seemed like the equilibrium price was 300. In Las Vegas, the price was also 300 from what I recall.
Of the 23-25 SBs that I had, about half were NOT pay for play. For them, I just paid for everything, such as food, drinks, hotels, trips, etc. None of those gals ever asked for money. A couple of gals were PPM for the first time, but they had pretty fun time with me and so they said I didn't have to pay them anymore, but this only happened maybe 2-3 times. But I was a pretty easy going, relatively fit, and decent looking guy back then. In a matter of only a few years, my age has suddenly caught up with me (for example, half my hair is white now, but back then I didn't have any white hair, and I now suddenly have a ton of wrinkles), and so I doubt I could score a non-PPM gal on SA anymore.
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2471082]400 isn't the equilibrium price for the entire market. I am just saying that if every girl in a LOCAL market is quoting the same price, then that's probably the equilibrium price of the local market. In SF, the equilibrium price was 500 a few years ago when I was active in SF. Some girls quoted 400, but they were on the wrong side of being a 7. Some girls quoted higher than 500, but eventually, they couldn't get enough action and most came down to 500 or disappeared. In other cities, the equilibrium price will usually be lower. For example, in Portland, OR, it seemed like the equilibrium price was 300. In Las Vegas, the price was also 300 from what I recall.
.[/QUOTE]In my local market $500 is the quoted price but it's the inclusions for this that varies. Some girls will do overnight for $500, some all afternoon, some will be 2 hours for $500. I had one girls that would travel with me for $500 per week. Some will have zero flexibility with $500 others will totally accommodate for $500.
In considering the 'price' it means nothing without also consider the service. Within their peer groups, the girls may say they get $500 per week but maybe they are not so specific on what each of them does for $500.
In considering opening offers, $500 maybe the price point but you could always increase her performance requirements to sex twice per week etc.
It's the girls that say $500 per meet for two hours are the ones I avoid as there is no upside.
PP.
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Cautionary Tale
So I've gone from nearly batting 1000 to batting like a chump in the last two encounters. And they had a common thread. You may recall Courtney — very nice vibe. Real pics. Girlfriendy. Arrange a meetup. And when I show she says she needs CashApp to get there. Damn. An anomaly?
A couple days ago I found a girl. Nice enough but clearly a pro. Says she can host. We text a little. Agree to meetup. She gives me the road she lives on a day or so ahead and it's a pretty nice area. Slight alert there. Then we are to meetup today. I tell her I am on my way and she gives me the house number. Arrive but need a unit number. I now have a text — oh did we talk about how I need CashApp because I've been burned before? NO we did not fucking talk about that or I wouldn't have driven over here you be*tch!
WTF. Two very extensive catfishes with me driving to meetup. Feel like a total chump. Not quitting but damn that was discouraging. Just FYI it's not all roses. Even for a pro.
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I struck out too
That receptionist that I tried to make into "an arrangement" kept giving me the run-around. She kept making excuses to not meet. Eventually, I just told her that I won't bother her anymore. She replied something about how I'm selfish, or something like that. I didn't understand what she meant by that. I tried to be very accommodative regarding her schedule, and I even said that we could meet whenever she wanted, but she would let a week go by and never saying anything. So, I gave up. I guess you cannot make a girl into something that she didn't want to be in the first place. Also, I realize that I could have taken a different approach, but it needed to be an arrangement, because I did not want her to think this was a real relationship.
[QUOTE=Steve9696;2471307]So I've gone from nearly batting 1000 to batting like a chump in the last two encounters. And they had a common thread. You may recall Courtney very nice vibe. Real pics. Girlfriendy. Arrange a meetup. And when I show she says she needs CashApp to get there. Damn. An anomaly?
A couple days ago I found a girl. Nice enough but clearly a pro. Says she can host. We text a little. Agree to meetup. She gives me the road she lives on a day or so ahead and it's a pretty nice area. Slight alert there. Then we are to meetup today. I tell her I am on my way and she gives me the house number. Arrive but need a unit number. I now have a text oh did we talk about how I need CashApp because I've been burned before? NO we did not fucking talk about that or I wouldn't have driven over here you be*tch!
WTF. Two very extensive catfishes with me driving to meetup. Feel like a total chump. Not quitting but damn that was discouraging. Just FYI it's not all roses. Even for a pro.[/QUOTE].
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[QUOTE=Steve9696;2471307]So I've gone from nearly batting 1000 to batting like a chump in the last two encounters. And they had a common thread. You may recall Courtney very nice vibe. Real pics. Girlfriendy. Arrange a meetup. And when I show she says she needs CashApp to get there. Damn. An anomaly?
A couple days ago I found a girl. Nice enough but clearly a pro. Says she can host. We text a little. Agree to meetup. She gives me the road she lives on a day or so ahead and it's a pretty nice area. Slight alert there. Then we are to meetup today. I tell her I am on my way and she gives me the house number. Arrive but need a unit number. I now have a text oh did we talk about how I need CashApp because I've been burned before? NO we did not fucking talk about that or I wouldn't have driven over here you be*tch!
WTF. Two very extensive catfishes with me driving to meetup. Feel like a total chump. Not quitting but damn that was discouraging. Just FYI it's not all roses. Even for a pro.[/QUOTE]Probably bother scammers, probably not even there.
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[QUOTE=Steve9696;2471307]WTF. Two very extensive catfishes with me driving to meetup. Feel like a total chump. Not quitting but damn that was discouraging. Just FYI it's not all roses. Even for a pro.[/QUOTE]Steve,
There are two kinds of people who use. Those who bat 1.000 and those like you who tell the truth. I am so glad to see that you are in the latter group.
I have a 10 in Brazil who is promising the world, and I cannot for the life of me tell if she is playing me or is a dream come true. Usually, I can put odds on this and say "There is a 90% chance she is full of it. " but with her, I am still at 50-50. If she comes through though, that is why we play the game. You do not hit home runs by playing it safe. To find the trifecta, a beautiful woman with a fun personality who is great in the sack takes a lot of time, energy, and money. There is no short cut, and that is why when you hit the trifecta, it is so great in this game. It is what guys who just pay for sex do not get.
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I think it's stories like this that keep me off of SA despite its allure. I've noticed this about me: a negative encounter has a stronger, longer lasting effect on me than a positive one. So something like this would knock me off the game for quite a while. I have a limit to how much aggravation and humiliation even I'm willing to endure for the sake of pussy. I used to see a legendary escort locally, centerfold quality looks and solid GFE / PSE service. She 'retired' but agreed to continue seeing me. When it was on it was as good as anything I had in Brazil. But I finally had to cut her loose because she would flake spectacularly every 4-5 encounters. Those flaky times, her way of staying in control, eventually blotted out the pleasure of the good times.
[QUOTE=Steve9696;2471307]So I've gone from nearly batting 1000 to batting like a chump in the last two encounters. And they had a common thread. You may recall Courtney very nice vibe. Real pics. Girlfriendy. Arrange a meetup. And when I show she says she needs CashApp to get there. Damn. An anomaly?
A couple days ago I found a girl. Nice enough but clearly a pro. Says she can host. We text a little. Agree to meetup. She gives me the road she lives on a day or so ahead and it's a pretty nice area. Slight alert there. Then we are to meetup today. I tell her I am on my way and she gives me the house number. Arrive but need a unit number. I now have a text oh did we talk about how I need CashApp because I've been burned before? NO we did not fucking talk about that or I wouldn't have driven over here you be*tch!
WTF. Two very extensive catfishes with me driving to meetup. Feel like a total chump. Not quitting but damn that was discouraging. Just FYI it's not all roses. Even for a pro.[/QUOTE]
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[QUOTE=Steve9696;2471307]So I've gone from nearly batting 1000 to batting like a chump in the last two encounters. And they had a common thread. You may recall Courtney very nice vibe. Real pics. Girlfriendy. Arrange a meetup. And when I show she says she needs CashApp to get there. Damn. An anomaly?
A couple days ago I found a girl. Nice enough but clearly a pro. Says she can host. We text a little. Agree to meetup. She gives me the road she lives on a day or so ahead and it's a pretty nice area. Slight alert there. Then we are to meetup today. I tell her I am on my way and she gives me the house number. Arrive but need a unit number. I now have a text oh did we talk about how I need CashApp because I've been burned before? NO we did not fucking talk about that or I wouldn't have driven over here you be*tch!
WTF. Two very extensive catfishes with me driving to meetup. Feel like a total chump. Not quitting but damn that was discouraging. Just FYI it's not all roses. Even for a pro.[/QUOTE]A scammer for sure Steve. Report her profile to SA. SA is very responsive. I think they try hard to weed out the scammers.
The chics who mention CashApp are all scammers. Heck, there may not be even a chic behind the profile.
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[QUOTE=PilotPaul;2471095]In my local market $500 is the quoted price but it's the inclusions for this that varies. Some girls will do overnight for $500, some all afternoon, some will be 2 hours for $500. I had one girls that would travel with me for $500 per week. Some will have zero flexibility with $500 others will totally accommodate for $500.
In considering the 'price' it means nothing without also consider the service. Within their peer groups, the girls may say they get $500 per week but maybe they are not so specific on what each of them does for $500.
In considering opening offers, $500 maybe the price point but you could always increase her performance requirements to sex twice per week etc.
It's the girls that say $500 per meet for two hours are the ones I avoid as there is no upside.
PP.[/QUOTE]Agreed. In my market, I have been quoted anywhere from $300 to $1,000 PPM. However, the number of hours included in a PPM varies from girl to girl. It's best to clarity the PPM's "number of hours" with your chic so there won't be any surprise. One chic told me for $300, she will spend 1-2 hours in the hotel. Another chic told me for $400, it's dinner and then about 1. 5 hours in hotel.
SA is so different from FKK Globe, which is my pre-COVID playground. Each chic on SA sets her own price and rules. I can't assume anything. I will have to clarify with each chic the specifics of the arrangement.
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Price Range
[QUOTE=DiverOyster;2471587]Agreed. In my market, I have been quoted anywhere from $300 to $1,000 PPM. However, the number of hours included in a PPM varies from girl to girl. It's best to clarity the PPM's "number of hours" with your chic so there won't be any surprise. One chic told me for $300, she will spend 1-2 hours in the hotel. Another chic told me for $400, it's dinner and then about 1. 5 hours in hotel.
SA is so different from FKK Globe, which is my pre-COVID playground. Each chic on SA sets her own price and rules. I can't assume anything. I will have to clarify with each chic the specifics of the arrangement.[/QUOTE]The 300-1000 range that you shared has been my experience too. Connected with a girl that claims to be 20 year athlete and 1 K per meeting. Was way higher than what I was expecting!
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Service and number of hours?
[QUOTE=DiverOyster;2471587]Agreed. In my market, I have been quoted anywhere from $300 to $1,000 PPM. However, the number of hours included in a PPM varies from girl to girl. It's best to clarity the PPM's "number of hours" with your chic so there won't be any surprise. One chic told me for $300, she will spend 1-2 hours in the hotel. Another chic told me for $400, it's dinner and then about 1. 5 hours in hotel.[/QUOTE]This discussion that services and number of hours can vary is odd to me. We are on SA to hire a GF, not a pro. And a GF should NOT specify services and number of hours per date.
If we agree on 400 or 500, then by default that means we should then stop talking about the money and just have a good time. This means bar hopping, gambling, drinking, dancing, holding hands, eating, site-seeing, etc. And then going back to the room for great sex and then passing out. Next morning, maybe get breakfast together. For her, the money should just be a bonus, and not the only reason why she dates me.
If a gal on SA told me that the date would be for 2 hours or 4 hours, then I would take a pass. I could find a real pro for that, and with little time and effort. This is why many of us spend so much time on SA, to hire a great GF, not to hire a pro. My arrangements always stayed until the date felt like it was naturally coming to an end, almost always the next day. Yes, I did have many girls tell me that the date would be for 4 hours, but I never agreed to meet any of them. I didn't use SA to find someone that only wanted to see me for money. I already hire pros for that.
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[QUOTE=Luminous;2471660]The 300-1000 range that you shared has been my experience too. Connected with a girl that claims to be 20 year athlete and 1 K per meeting. Was way higher than what I was expecting![/QUOTE]Did you ask her for 1 k, how much time will she spend with you?
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Non-pros
[QUOTE=Midwestern;2471678]This is why many of us spend so much time on SA, to hire a great GF, not to hire a pro. [/QUOTE]How much time / effort does it take to find these non-pros? Most of the ones I'm running into South Flordia are pros!
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Takes A LOT of Time
[QUOTE=Luminous;2471698]How much time / effort does it take to find these non-pros? Most of the ones I'm running into South Flordia are pros![/QUOTE]It takes a lot of time, but I enjoy it. Like I browse and chat EVERY DAY sometimes for a couple hours. This is probably overkill but remember the non-pros come on and go off pretty quickly. There is constant churn. So you have to be on a lot to catch the window.
I browsed south Florida for several weeks and found 3-4 that would have been quality meetups. Had Covid not hit I would be with one of them for sure. I think I posted a FR a few weeks back of a Columbiana I found in Miami last year. Semi-pro in that she knew what she was doing but it never felt escortish. Great experience.
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Many many many hours
Agree with Steve. When I was active on SA, I spent about 20 hours (sometimes more) per week on the site. Over a 20 month period, I had about two dozen great arrangements. You might think this is a huge waste of time, but when was the last time I had two dozen great GFs in less than 2 years? Answer: never.
A lot of skeptics may say it's not worth the time and effort, and say that I should just go with the pros. But here's the thing: being active on SA and being with pros is NOT mutually exclusive. During the 20 months while I was on SA, I still saw pros and went to FS AMPS, probably about twice (or more) per week.
But like Steve says, I enjoyed it while I was on it. If this doesn't sound enjoyable, then definitely don't do it. If someone were to say that this is a total waste of time, I probably would not argue with him that much.
[QUOTE=Steve9696;2471701]It takes a lot of time, but I enjoy it. Like I browse and chat EVERY DAY sometimes for a couple hours. This is probably overkill but remember the non-pros come on and go off pretty quickly. There is constant churn. So you have to be on a lot to catch the window.
I browsed south Florida for several weeks and found 3-4 that would have been quality meetups. Had Covid not hit I would be with one of them for sure. I think I posted a FR a few weeks back of a Columbiana I found in Miami last year. Semi-pro in that she knew what she was doing but it never felt escortish. Great experience.[/QUOTE]
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Yes Mix and Match
[QUOTE=Midwestern;2471725]Agree with Steve. When I was active on SA, I spent about 20 hours (sometimes more) per week on the site. Over a 20 month period, I had about two dozen great arrangements. You might think this is a huge waste of time, but when was the last time I had two dozen great GFs in less than 2 years? Answer: never.
A lot of skeptics may say it's not worth the time and effort, and say that I should just go with the pros. But here's the thing: being active on SA and being with pros is NOT mutually exclusive. During the 20 months while I was on SA, I still saw pros and went to FS AMPS, probably about twice (or more) per week.
But like Steve says, I enjoyed it while I was on it. If this doesn't sound enjoyable, then definitely don't do it. If someone were to say that this is a total waste of time, I probably would not argue with him that much.[/QUOTE]Yeah depends on your city and country. In the US I don't care for the pro scene that much. Overpriced for mediocre looks and talent. When I was in Vegas I had three different SBs (8. 5, 8, 7. 5) across 5 nights, repeating with two of them. Yet in London where ro-girl escorts are spectacular on my one day layover had an Escort at 10 AM, SB from 3-7, and an escort later that night. Maximum impact! LOL.
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[QUOTE=Steve9696;2471759]Yeah depends on your city and country. In the US I don't care for the pro scene that much. Overpriced for mediocre looks and talent. When I was in Vegas I had three different SBs (8. 5, 8, 7. 5) across 5 nights, repeating with two of them. Yet in London where ro-girl escorts are spectacular on my one day layover had an Escort at 10 AM, SB from 3-7, and an escort later that night. Maximum impact! LOL.[/QUOTE]I agree completely. There is no limit to good sex. Do not limit yourself to one option. Each has its advantages. But 3 in one day! I am impressed, both by the number and the duration. That's lining up the cherries on the slot machine. LOL. My favorite ladies are not the ones that let you come multiple times, but want to make you come multiple times until you are satisfied. That, to me, is combining the best of GFE and PSE.
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[QUOTE=Steve9696;2471759]Yet in London where ro-girl escorts are spectacular on my one day layover had an Escort at 10 AM, SB from 3-7, and an escort later that night. Maximum impact! LOL.[/QUOTE]You are really making want to go to London, Steve! Did you do SA in Brazil? Anyone else here try it in Brazil? I was getting great responses before I realized we could not go to Brazil (although we can go now) and am going to fly a gal from SP to Mexico City next month.
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Boates so Good Flexible Girls
[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2472037]You are really making want to go to London, Steve! Did you do SA in Brazil? Anyone else here try it in Brazil? I was getting great responses before I realized we could not go to Brazil (although we can go now) and am going to fly a gal from SP to Mexico City next month.[/QUOTE]I did not try SA in SP. I love the Boate scene so much I can't see doing anything else. I did engage a few SA girls and they were very nice and seemed promising but found myself kicking myself for possibly reducing my Boate time. In the end I am glad I didn't do any SA. I think every minute I am not at a Boate I will regret.
But if U find a girl u are into its no problem to see them outside the club. Most Brasileiras are really flexible and not clock watchers.
P.S. Remember these girls don't speak English mostly so dinner out might not be the same as dinner in London or US say.
PPS Remember that in Brasil being an hour late is being on time. I am NOT kidding. It is perfectly accepted that if she is an hour late to ur date time she is on time. LOL. Takes some getting used to! (And it happened to me with both Carolina and Thifany, both of whom I saw outside the club).
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Yes!
[QUOTE=Midwestern;2471678]This discussion that services and number of hours can vary is odd to me. We are on SA to hire a GF, not a pro. And a GF should NOT specify services and number of hours per date.
If we agree on 400 or 500, then by default that means we should then stop talking about the money and just have a good time. This means bar hopping, gambling, drinking, dancing, holding hands, eating, site-seeing, etc. And then going back to the room for great sex and then passing out. Next morning, maybe get breakfast together. For her, the money should just be a bonus, and not the only reason why she dates me.
If a gal on SA told me that the date would be for 2 hours or 4 hours, then I would take a pass. I could find a real pro for that, and with little time and effort. This is why many of us spend so much time on SA, to hire a great GF, not to hire a pro. My arrangements always stayed until the date felt like it was naturally coming to an end, almost always the next day. Yes, I did have many girls tell me that the date would be for 4 hours, but I never agreed to meet any of them. I didn't use SA to find someone that only wanted to see me for money. I already hire pros for that.[/QUOTE]I couldn't agree more. As I was reading the post that mentioned a specific number of hours for an outing or hotel time, I immediately thought exactly what you wrote MW. The whole purpose of SA is to have the GF experience. If a SB is quoting time and essentially breaking her time with you down to an amount per hour, then you should abandon ship.
I personally haven't come across an SB that tells me how long she expects the date to be. But if I did, it would be a pass 100%. Our time together needs to feel natural, no schedule (unless you make it known that you have other plans), and def not let's bang so I can get my money and go attitude. I make it very clear in my profile that if an SB is just an idiot with a pretty face that wants Chanel bags, then we will not click. I emphasize that I'm looking for someone to chill with, explore and have good times. Most SBs usually mention that in my profile when we talk, and they like it. Maybe this helps to weed out some of the pros when you make it clear that pussy isn't your only aim. It is, but I like to have fun first!
What I hate is the girl that changes the number mid date. She takes your kindness for a weakness and thinks she can get over on you. This has only happened to me once, but it made me much more harsh to the girls, essentially completely intolerant. I haven't' been on SA for a while now, bc of COVID, but I can see all the BS that I'll have to deal with when I come back. I'm hoping that they haven't become more like sharks bc of COVID.
02.
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[QUOTE=Steve9696;2471701]It takes a lot of time, but I enjoy it. Like I browse and chat EVERY DAY sometimes for a couple hours. This is probably overkill but remember the non-pros come on and go off pretty quickly. There is constant churn. So you have to be on a lot to catch the window.
I browsed south Florida for several weeks and found 3-4 that would have been quality meetups. Had Covid not hit I would be with one of them for sure. I think I posted a FR a few weeks back of a Columbiana I found in Miami last year. Semi-pro in that she knew what she was doing but it never felt escortish. Great experience.[/QUOTE]If you are going to take this road, you have to be prepared for the time investment. That is the first thing I was told about SA. This couldn't be more true. It is easy to get 50 responses, but then you have to weed out the pros / scammers / scared girls etc. When it all boils down, you'll have 5 dates lined up, of which only 3 materialize to a bang. If this is exciting to you, then you will love SA (it's my drug). If not, then you will spend a lot of money trying to find a solid pro that gives you an awesome experience. They are out there, but not easy to find, plus the factors that affect the quality of an interaction with a pro are many. Including but not limited to: is she bitter from years in the field? Did she just have a bad experience right before you? Is she normally a *****? Does she not like your race (black / asian / indian / white)? Does she think she can scam you? So much to consider.
For instance, I love the EU scene and I have had great times in London. I have had a few romanian girls and every experience has been shit, to the point that I avoid romanian girls now. This is coming from a guy that can speak some romanian too. I just don't like their vibe, attitude, willingness to participate, etc. When I have come across romanian strippers, we have a blast, and I get more for less (high mileage) !! They love that I can understand them and they don't ahve to speak english, but for some reason I don't jive with the escorts? I even had one of those karmatantric girls in London one evening and she was awesome (romanian / turkish) with no issue. I find that I get much better value from other girls, especially ukrainians and czechs.
So, keep your options open and use the quality avenues that bring you pleasure (escorts / strippers / massage parlors / fkks). I personally have a few escorts that I keep in whatsapp that already know me as a trusted monger, so I get priority. One of them even sends me holiday greetings LOL.
02.
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Let Ro-Girls Change your Mind!
[QUOTE=LshRoomer;2472340]If you are going to take this road, you have to be prepared for the time investment. That is the first thing I was told about SA. This couldn't be more true. It is easy to get 50 responses, but then you have to weed out the pros / scammers / scared girls etc. When it all boils down, you'll have 5 dates lined up, of which only 3 materialize to a bang. If this is exciting to you, then you will love SA (it's my drug). If not, then you will spend a lot of money trying to find a solid pro that gives you an awesome experience. They are out there, but not easy to find, plus the factors that affect the quality of an interaction with a pro are many. Including but not limited to: is she bitter from years in the field? Did she just have a bad experience right before you? Is she normally a *****? Does she not like your race (black / asian / indian / white)? Does she think she can scam you? So much to consider.
For instance, I love the EU scene and I have had great times in London. I have had a few romanian girls and every experience has been shit, to the point that I avoid romanian girls now. This is coming from a guy that can speak some romanian too. I just don't like their vibe, attitude, willingness to participate, etc. When I have come across romanian strippers, we have a blast, and I get more for less (high mileage) !! They love that I can understand them and they don't ahve to speak english, but for some reason I don't jive with the escorts? I even had one of those karmatantric girls in London one evening and she was awesome (romanian / turkish) with no issue. I find that I get much better value from other girls, especially ukrainians and czechs.
So, keep your options open and use the quality avenues that bring you pleasure (escorts / strippers / massage parlors / fkks). I personally have a few escorts that I keep in whatsapp that already know me as a trusted monger, so I get priority. One of them even sends me holiday greetings LOL.
02.[/QUOTE]Lshoomer. It's true in general Romanian girls have a bad rep. But have you ever had a top girl at Diva in London? Melty, Fortune, Cambria, Rivetta, Noleta, Kendall? These are just some of the raven haired beauties I've enjoyed all Ro-girls and all with great attitude looks and service. I can't imagine you have had a top Diva girl. They will change your mind on Romanians. I am a fan now.
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Interesting perspective
[QUOTE=Steve9696;2472423]Lshoomer. It's true in general Romanian girls have a bad rep. But have you ever had a top girl at Diva in London? Melty, Fortune, Cambria, Rivetta, Noleta, Kendall? These are just some of the raven haired beauties I've enjoyed all Ro-girls and all with great attitude looks and service. I can't imagine you have had a top Diva girl. They will change your mind on Romanians. I am a fan now.[/QUOTE]I've mentioned before that I'm pretty intolerant when it comes to girls in our hobby that aren't very nice or attempt to scam. That being said, I'm nice as hell to the honest girls that want a fair exchange and fun. I"ve had 2 bad experiences with Romanian girls in London. One barely wanted to perform and had the b*t@h face the entire time, while the other was okay with performing but was mechanical, rushed me, and was distant as hell. She even tried to put the condom on me while I was still soft. Now I don't have issues with getting the blood flowing, but my gosh, give me some encouragement. This made me write off Ro-escorts. I've found reg rogirls and ro-strippers that have been amazing. On the flip side of the coin, the KarmaTantric romanian girl was cool as hell, amazing, very sensual and we had a great time (she was half turkish). I know I have a small sample size, but for me, it was enough evidence to substantiate the bad reputation of rogirls that I had read about so many times.
That being said, I did not partake from Diva, which I have heard is a good agency with amazing girls. I must admit that I did kinda shoot for the lower costing girls when I tried the other 2 escorts. Maybe it's a case of you get what you pay for. This was earlier in my hobby when I was still trying to spend the least to get the most From what you say, it sounds like Diva is worth a visit. I just looked at the site and their girls are very easy on the eyes!
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Don't Spent More
[QUOTE=LshRoomer;2472667]I've mentioned before that I'm pretty intolerant when it comes to girls in our hobby that aren't very nice or attempt to scam. That being said, I'm nice as hell to the honest girls that want a fair exchange and fun. I"ve had 2 bad experiences with Romanian girls in London. One barely wanted to perform and had the b*t@h face the entire time, while the other was okay with performing but was mechanical, rushed me, and was distant as hell. She even tried to put the condom on me while I was still soft. Now I don't have issues with getting the blood flowing, but my gosh, give me some encouragement. This made me write off Ro-escorts. I've found reg rogirls and ro-strippers that have been amazing. On the flip side of the coin, the KarmaTantric romanian girl was cool as hell, amazing, very sensual and we had a great time (she was half turkish). I know I have a small sample size, but for me, it was enough evidence to substantiate the bad reputation of rogirls that I had read about so many times.
That being said, I did not partake from Diva, which I have heard is a good agency with amazing girls. I must admit that I did kinda shoot for the lower costing girls when I tried the other 2 escorts. Maybe it's a case of you get what you pay for. This was earlier in my hobby when I was still trying to spend the least to get the most From what you say, it sounds like Diva is worth a visit. I just looked at the site and their girls are very easy on the eyes![/QUOTE]Diva girls at 150 are excellent. No need to pay anymore than that. Many girls charge more but all the girls I listed are 150 or at at most 200 girls. More pounds only buys a nicer flat. If you can get to London see Melty. Best combo of looks and performance. But if you want to see the nicest ass on Planet earth see Fortune. It defies logic. Both are seeing guys right now.
Meanwhile back at home I am sucking ass on finding a local SB. Had a great date and a quick kiss at the meet and greet. But she says she’s been depressed a lot and etc. so it’s not progressing. Even digging into the escort scene. This reminds me that *** is back functioning at full speed. So maybe I can find something there.
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[QUOTE=Steve9696;2472724]Diva girls at 150 are excellent. No need to pay anymore than that. Many girls charge more but all the girls I listed are 150 or at at most 200 girls. More pounds only buys a nicer flat. If you can get to London see Melty. Best combo of looks and performance. But if you want to see the nicest ass on Planet earth see Fortune. It defies logic. Both are seeing guys right now.
Meanwhile back at home I am sucking ass on finding a local SB. Had a great date and a quick kiss at the meet and greet. But she says shes been depressed a lot and etc. so its not progressing. Even digging into the escort scene. This reminds me that *** is back functioning at full speed. So maybe I can find something there.[/QUOTE]Just checked out Diva again and all this is doing is making me realize how F* at k#the up this COVID situation is. I don't think I'll be London any time soon, but I'm definitely planning to hit a few places when flights open up again.
In terms of the escort scene in the US. Thumbs down for me. The quality, looks, and performance just never add up to the price for me. So, instead I've been living vicariously through you guys until traveling becomes a thing. I'm personally already looking to check out Lisbon, a girl I know in Berlin, another one in Hamburg (she's kinda weird, and I haven't had the chance to bang her yet. She first mentioned 700/ night and I told her 300 is more reasonable. She changed her mind instantly. Not sure if I can still get that number from her post-covid) and some FKKs in Germany. Knock it all out in a 5 day trip.
Steve. Good luck on the local search man!! Keep us posted!!
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Achieving SB Nirvana
As I currently struggle in my hometown, my best entertainment is to reflect on past successes. It occurred to me that SB nirvana is achieved when you truly WANT to help your girl out. At that point it's not a transaction because you have come to truly like and care about this person.
I guess I've only had one multi month SB because most of mine are short term traveling SBs. So it's closest to the real thing. It's funny because she is the SB I am least physically attracted to she's gorgeous. Just not my usual type. So I had three points of progression in SB nirvana:
1. After meeting at the hotel a couple times, she invited me to start coming to her place. Nice!
2. On my second or third visit I brought my tools and fixed her chairs because they had never been assembled right and her boyfriend is not handy. LOL. She was SUPER appreciative. Took all of 15 minutes.
3. I started gifting her $500 or $400 instead of the agreed $300 just because she needs it way more in Covid times than I do. It had nothing to do with a sex transaction. I WANTED to give my girl a hand.
Now I am sure I will be flamed for paying over "market" but that's the point. It's not a market once it's one on one. It's you and your girl and how you feel.
Another SB nirvana was with my girl Krystal in Las Vegas. Really my finest experience to date. We had agreed $400 and had a spectacular night one. Just off the charts (think I have posted it) but then on night two I gave her More than that and bought her a nice necklace at the Swarovski store. At no point did she ask for more. I WANTED to do it because fuck she is a rock star and deserves it and I was (and am) totally into her. Damn she's gorgeous and a blast.
So it's that "want to" that is the key to whether you have achieved true SB IMO. Even if it's short like Krystal (we are still in touch and hope to meetup post Covid).
Two other moments stand out as "getting it right" and beyond transactional. The first is with first-timer Emily in NYC. After having the most amazing date and passionate sex, we are lying in bed pillow-talking and we will literally stare into each other's eyes for 30 seconds or more. It's so intimate. Even girls I've been with several times we don't get here.
The second was again with Krystal. After having sex, dinner, drinks and sex again (5 hrs in at this point) and having crashed in the bed, I am roused by the sound of her taking off her (new) necklace to the nightstand. She's staying over! This is purely her decision based on how the night went. Sigh. What a great feeling. My goddess is sleeping over. SB nirvana baby!
What have been your SB nirvana moments?
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I tip more when we do NOT negotiate the tip
[QUOTE=Steve9696;2473365]
What have been your SB nirvana moments?[/QUOTE]This isn't exactly an SB moment, but I agree with your point about paying more when they deserve it, and don't ask for it. A few months ago, I was in an MP, and on the flip, she starts giving me a BBBJ. This was my first time to this place and I was shocked. No negotiation or discussion about the tip. Then she starts switching back and forth between DFKing and BBBJing me. At the end, I tipped more than usual. You guys might think that I stumbled upon a BBBJ shop (or in China, we call this a KB shop), and I too wondered about this, but this was not the case. This gal just decided to give me a good experience. And she was rewarded for it.
Another example is a mistress that I had. She was very poor, but she has never asked for a penny. But from our encounters, she seemed to really enjoy them and really love me. So, I always wanted to give her some money here and there. She always refused, but I insisted.
Am I being played? Maybe, but I doubt it. And besides, even if I am being played, they are poor, so WTF. I shouldn't be a dick just because I got lucky in life and they didn't.
Am I upping the price and ruining it for everyone else? No, I am tight when it comes to this hobby. I just make rare exceptions here and there.
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Yeah But
[QUOTE=Midwestern;2473699]This isn't exactly an SB moment, but I agree with your point about paying more when they deserve it, and don't ask for it. A few months ago, I was in an MP, and on the flip, she starts giving me a BBBJ. This was my first time to this place and I was shocked. No negotiation or discussion about the tip. Then she starts switching back and forth between DFKing and BBBJing me. At the end, I tipped more than usual. You guys might think that I stumbled upon a BBBJ shop (or in China, we call this a KB shop), and I too wondered about this, but this was not the case. This gal just decided to give me a good experience. And she was rewarded for it.
Another example is a mistress that I had. She was very poor, but she has never asked for a penny. But from our encounters, she seemed to really enjoy them and really love me. So, I always wanted to give her some money here and there. She always refused, but I insisted.
Am I being played? Maybe, but I doubt it. And besides, even if I am being played, they are poor, so WTF. I shouldn't be a dick just because I got lucky in life and they didn't.
Am I upping the price and ruining it for everyone else? No, I am tight when it comes to this hobby. I just make rare exceptions here and there.[/QUOTE]I almost always agree with you MW. But calling this a tip rubs me the wrong way. I tip a hooker for her extra service. I don't tip a girl I care about. I give her some $$ because I want to. Maybe it's splitting hairs but my original point was SB Nirvana is when it's past transactional. And a tip feels like a transaction. I guess we can both think about it as we like.
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When it comes to women, I think it's all transactional
[QUOTE=Steve9696;2473721]I almost always agree with you MW. But calling this a tip rubs me the wrong way. I tip a hooker for her extra service. I don't tip a girl I care about. I give her some $$ because I want to. Maybe it's splitting hairs but my original point was SB Nirvana is when it's past transactional. And a tip feels like a transaction. I guess we can both think about it as we like.[/QUOTE]LOL, man, do you not know how jaded I am? When it comes to women, I now think it's all transactional. Sex after a good date is not free, as we had to spend $ on dinner and spend time on the date. Sex with wife was not free, because we later had to buy her a house. So, I do think of all sex as transactional. If that's not the case for some guys, then I can honestly say that is awesome for them, and I don't say this to be dismissive at all. I too once could really feel love (or nirvana) with women, but those days are now long gone. Maybe there were some women out there who really loved me too. But I still think they wanted something in return. Maybe it was just love, not money, but they wanted something. So, maybe when I read you post, you were talking about something that I never achieved simply because I am totally jaded now, and therefore I just didn't understand it, LOL.
BTW, it's totally cool to disagree about stuff. This is what makes a convo interesting. Otherwise, it would be boring to have a beer with you if we didn't disagree on some stuff.
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Point Taken
[QUOTE=Midwestern;2473787]LOL, man, do you not know how jaded I am? When it comes to women, I now think it's all transactional. Sex after a good date is not free, as we had to spend $ on dinner and spend time on the date. Sex with wife was not free, because we later had to buy her a house. So, I do think of all sex as transactional. If that's not the case for some guys, then I can honestly say that is awesome for them, and I don't say this to be dismissive at all. I too once could really feel love (or nirvana) with women, but those days are now long gone. Maybe there were some women out there who really loved me too. But I still think they wanted something in return. Maybe it was just love, not money, but they wanted something. So, maybe when I read you post, you were talking about something that I never achieved simply because I am totally jaded now, and therefore I just didn't understand it, LOL.
BTW, it's totally cool to disagree about stuff. This is what makes a convo interesting. Otherwise, it would be boring to have a beer with you if we didn't disagree on some stuff.[/QUOTE]Yeah I agree all sex is for money in the end. Like buying the wife a nice house. One time I was reflecting about how the sex in my marriage wounr down to a couple times a year at best. Now that's some golden pussy at $50 K a pop! LOL.
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No Home Run. Solid Double!
Well it's been a long time coming. Six months of searching in my second tier city. And two catfishes. Blech! But finally found my girl. We met for an ice cream date meet and greet last week. I was totally concerned she was fake going in. Because she's beautiful but her profile was super forward. But she's real. She's done SB 4 times before. All serious and long term.
She says she wants $200 a meet (yay!) and is very interested in developing something long term. Super pretty girl with a few ignorable extra pounds (says it's Covid weight she is going to lose). All In all seemed promising.
Met tonight at the hotel skipped dinner. Wasn't the best sex of my life course that's a high bar. But very submissive and eager to please. All in all a solid find after all this time. Looking forward to a few times per month meetup.
It pays to be patient!
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Well actually.
[QUOTE=Steve9696;2475068]Well it's been a long time coming. Six months of searching in my second tier city. And two catfishes. Blech! But finally found my girl. We met for an ice cream date meet and greet last week. I was totally concerned she was fake going in. Because she's beautiful but her profile was super forward. But she's real. She's done SB 4 times before. All serious and long term.
She says she wants $200 a meet (yay!) and is very interested in developing something long term. Super pretty girl with a few ignorable extra pounds (says it's Covid weight she is going to lose). All In all seemed promising.
Met tonight at the hotel skipped dinner. Wasn't the best sex of my life course that's a high bar. But very submissive and eager to please. All in all a solid find after all this time. Looking forward to a few times per month meetup.
It pays to be patient![/QUOTE]Let me rephrase having slept on it.
Body and sex were a double. Arrangement, attitude, and face total home run! Super happy.
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[QUOTE=Steve9696;2475068]Well it's been a long time coming. Six months of searching in my second tier city. And two catfishes. Blech! But finally found my girl. We met for an ice cream date meet and greet last week. I was totally concerned she was fake going in. Because she's beautiful but her profile was super forward. But she's real. She's done SB 4 times before. All serious and long term.
She says she wants $200 a meet (yay!) and is very interested in developing something long term. Super pretty girl with a few ignorable extra pounds (says it's Covid weight she is going to lose). All In all seemed promising.
Met tonight at the hotel skipped dinner. Wasn't the best sex of my life course that's a high bar. But very submissive and eager to please. All in all a solid find after all this time. Looking forward to a few times per month meetup.
It pays to be patient![/QUOTE]Way to go Steve. That's good. SA has been an erratic experience for me too. Tons of scammers on SA who want me to cashapp partial payment upfront. However, I also got some good intimate gfe sessions. More than 50% of my SA meets have been BBFS, and one with anal BBFS, just like my real life girlfriends. Now I weed out all the $500 and $800 and $1,000 and focus on the $300. I have gotten as low as $100, $200, $250, all BBFS. I live in one of the largest cities in the South.
I msg tons of hot slender girls but most don't respond. Among the ones that respond about 1/2 are scammers demanding cashapp upfront. The remaining 1/2 some chat with me and then ghost. So this process works itself out to a small number of chics who eventually meet. I also got favored and contacted by a bunch of chics who are not my physical type.
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Dublin
Anyone try SA in Dublin? Any info appreciated. Would imagine there's a ton of SB's over at Trinity? Do tell if you have any advice.
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Why we do it
I have met four women who live in Mexico on three different trips to Cancun. When I had two women come at once, it was a disaster. I then ran into a beauty who was gorgeous, nice, and decent in the sack and took her to Cancun twice. The chemistry just was not there.
When I was in Mexico City with her, I knew something was different when we had sex before dinner and she came back and wanted it again.
With this trip, she was on my dick the whole time. We went at it five times the first day even in the ocean and the pool. Then a few times the next day. This morning, she woke me up by sucking my cock. God, I love the horny ones.
When I asked her if she needed money today, she responded "For what? And it appears to me that she is looking for something deeper. Still, I told her that I was seeing other women and would not commit easily to one unless I really got to know her.
She is half my age, but the way she carries herself and given how tall she is, the age thing does not look like it will be an issue. The shorter, younger ones, who look like teenagers look more age inappropriate IMO.
I have a stunning prospect in Brazil that I am thinking of seeing. Thing is she is in Brazil, and this one is so much closer.
Still, for all the guys who say, they are all working girls in it for money and the women on SA are a different versions of working girls, I would ask then why don't they always ask for money. I do not know about anyone else, but I am finding foreign women time after time willing to suck and fuck me for nothing. Maybe they are playing the long game, and it may be to my advantage to say, "Yeah, they are all working girls" but if so, they are working girls who are not charging me. LOL.
Life is good. Shit, this chica totally drained me. Man can she suck and fuck.
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[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2477068]
Still, for all the guys who say, they are all working girls in it for money and the women on SA are a different versions of working girls, I would ask then why don't they always ask for money. I do not know about anyone else, but I am finding foreign women time after time willing to suck and fuck me for nothing. Maybe they are playing the long game, and it may be to my advantage to say, "Yeah, they are all working girls" but if so, they are working girls who are not charging me. LOL..[/QUOTE]Yep, I had my share of freebies off of SA too. I think it was about 11 or 12, out of 23. I don't know how it happened. Maybe they enjoyed our date and decided to just let it see where it goes. Or maybe they were on SA just to find successful guys to date and have fun with. They were not undergrads. They were more like young professionals or graduate students or people with crappy jobs, and they were just tired of being poor and dating poor guys.
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[QUOTE=Steve9696;2472106]PPS Remember that in Brasil being an hour late is being on time. I am NOT kidding. It is perfectly accepted that if she is an hour late to ur date time she is on time.[/QUOTE]My first time posting on this thread.
Yes, and not just in Brasil. When my time is not constrained, I don't really care. I can have a beer at the bar. When I AM time constrained, I will actually set a meeting time 30-45 minutes before I actually want her to be there. Worse case is she waits for me.
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It's on Like Donkey Kong
So my girl Layla who it took six months to find on SA is definitely ON and on good. One of the great things about her is she's super easy going and flexible. Like I had to cancel for one day and move to another and it was no problem. Always just "sure babe". And our second in-room date was much better than the first. Even tho she done this before you can tell she's a bit nervous with a new guy. Brought some wine and that really helped.
She's not top notch at everything she does but she's a submissive pleaser and horny as hell. As we were fucking the second time she said "I could just fuck for hours". Which is a nice thing to hear!
So definitely worth all the searching. Think I've found a long term local keeper. Fingers crossed.
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Couple Tips
Well the first tip is a "learn from my mistakes" type of tip. Obviously I guard my identity jealously, as you should. But a few times, including with Layla, I've let girls stay over at the room I booked. It only now just occurred to me (duh!) that they have those "Welcome Mr. XXX" screens on your TV in the room and online checkout on the TV. What a bone head. Well the other day I checked at the hotel we stayed at and it doesn't have the welcome screen or a name on the checkout screen that I could tell in a quick review (only occurred to me as she was on her way up). Anyhow just a heads up that you run this risk if you let them stay after you leave (either after a couple hour soire as recently, or you let them sleep in as I did with Krystal in Vegas). So far no harm. But just be aware. Real bonehead mistake!
The second tip is really good. Use Hotwire for booking. As you may know, Hotwire books a hotel at a great rate but you don't know exactly which one. But in my second tier city you can absolutely tell what hotel you will get! They let you specify the part of the city you want to stay in. And they tell you the rating of the hotel on a 5 point scale. In my town these rating vary a bit. Like one is 4. 1 and one 4. 2 and one 4. 3 etc. So when they give you a $99 rate on a three star hotel with a 4. 4 rating you can scroll down and find the actual hotel that meets those parameters!
I've done the hotel via Hotwire twice now and both times got the hotel I manually figured out and saved $40 both times! Beware that the rate can change over time. Like it was $129 morning of the meet and jumped to $149 later in the day (tho the regular rate was $189 at that time). This is because it's all based off rooms vacant or filling up. Anyhow I was surprised I could intuit the exact hotel and save a nice chunk of change.
Best of luck to all my SA buddies!
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[QUOTE=Steve9696;2477388]Well the first tip is a "learn from my mistakes" type of tip. Obviously I guard my identity jealously, as you should. But a few times, including with Layla, I've let girls stay over at the room I booked. It only now just occurred to me (duh!) that they have those "Welcome Mr. XXX" screens on your TV in the room and online checkout on the TV. What a bone head. Well the other day I checked at the hotel we stayed at and it doesn't have the welcome screen or a name on the checkout screen that I could tell in a quick review (only occurred to me as she was on her way up). Anyhow just a heads up that you run this risk if you let them stay after you leave (either after a couple hour soire as recently, or you let them sleep in as I did with Krystal in Vegas). So far no harm. But just be aware. Real bonehead mistake!.[/QUOTE]Fortunately, the girls are not too smart or experienced. I suspect a call to the front desk for a duplicate invoice would give them all the info about you delivered on a platter. As usual, great information. You saved me a ton of time and mistakes.
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Have gal book hotel if and when possible
Whenever it's possible, I ask the gal to book the hotel. The benefits are:
(1) Booking is not on my credit card.
(2) Security won't hassle the gal as she comes and goes, since she's a booked guest.
(3) As a booked guest, she seems less like a pro, so hotel (or LE) won't suspect that you are with a pro.
(4) Hides your identity from the gal in an almost fool-proof way.
(5) You don't have to worry about her wrecking the room, or stealing from the room, especially if you're letting her stay there while you are out.
(6) It's a lot easier for a guy to waltz past security than it is for the gal to sneak in.
(7) Saves me time.
This only works if (1) the gal completely trusts you (that you will reimburse her for the room) and (2) you have a legit reason for not booking the room yourself (I usually say that I don't have my ID with me for whatever reason).
I started doing this many years ago.
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[QUOTE=Akibono;2477505]Fortunately, the girls are not too smart or experienced. I suspect a call to the front desk for a duplicate invoice would give them all the info about you delivered on a platter. As usual, great information. You saved me a ton of time and mistakes.[/QUOTE]Some girls are smart, some are experienced, some are neither. To say "girls are not too smart or experienced" is the same as "girls are too smart and experienced". There is no way to generalize this either way (unless a guy goes out of his way to only meet the not smart / experienced girls, in which case that statement would be true).
But I don't think it is legal for the hotel to divulge the personal info on a guest to anyone who calls the front desk. At least not in the US. Has this sort of personal info leak happened to you? I know MW has said in the past his identity was leaked but if I remember correctly, he also said he made some mistake which made that happen. Also, MW uses this site in other countries too and the legality of identity disclosure by front desk to callers may be different in different countries.
All I know is that my identity has not leaked to any girl, at least not to the extent she either confronted me with such info. If any girl figured me out, she kept it to herself. And I have used the site enough, for more than 4 years now and several dozen arrangements, and hence the sample size is large enough and not due to dumb luck. But if guys here want to live with the belief that your identity is blown the minute you meet a girl, so be it.
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Yep Better
[QUOTE=Midwestern;2477776]Whenever it's possible, I ask the gal to book the hotel. The benefits are:
(1) Booking is not on my credit card.
(2) Security won't hassle the gal as she comes and goes, since she's a booked guest.
(3) As a booked guest, she seems less like a pro, so hotel (or LE) won't suspect that you are with a pro.
(4) Hides your identity from the gal in an almost fool-proof way.
(5) You don't have to worry about her wrecking the room, or stealing from the room, especially if you're letting her stay there while you are out.
(6) It's a lot easier for a guy to waltz past security than it is for the gal to sneak in.
(7) Saves me time.
This only works if (1) the gal completely trusts you (that you will reimburse her for the room) and (2) you have a legit reason for not booking the room yourself (I usually say that I don't have my ID with me for whatever reason).
I started doing this many years ago.[/QUOTE]Yep. This is better. Easier when you know her better. Layla is booking from here out. Also buying and bringing my brand of condoms. Afterall, isn't that what girlfriends are supposed to do? 😋.
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[QUOTE=Steve9696;2477796]Yep. This is better. Easier when you know her better. Layla is booking from here out. Also buying and bringing my brand of condoms. Afterall, isn't that what girlfriends are supposed to do? 😋.[/QUOTE]Man, I envy you. I need a GF. I had a date with a high-end pro a couple of weeks ago. 20 years old and absolutely stunning. It was like being with a model. But just treated me like another John.
A few days ago, a homely looking girl was looking at me and I started chatting her up. She was pretty giggly and sweet, and we actually had a fun convo. She made me laugh, which I haven't done much of lately. I would rather bang this homely girl than that 20 yo hottie. Maybe it's just a "grass is greener" thing and this will pass. I kind of gave up looking for an SB on my own, but maybe I should try it again with this homely girl. I know where she works. We'll see. OTOH, it feels like settling, but OTOH, I'm looking for chemistry and GFE, so maybe I'm not settling.
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It's About Affection
[QUOTE=Midwestern;2477855]Man, I envy you. I need a GF. I had a date with a high-end pro a couple of weeks ago. 20 years old and absolutely stunning. It was like being with a model. But just treated me like another John.
A few days ago, a homely looking girl was looking at me and I started chatting her up. She was pretty giggly and sweet, and we actually had a fun convo. She made me laugh, which I haven't done much of lately. I would rather bang this homely girl than that 20 yo hottie. Maybe it's just a "grass is greener" thing and this will pass. I kind of gave up looking for an SB on my own, but maybe I should try it again with this homely girl. I know where she works. We'll see. OTOH, it feels like settling, but OTOH, I'm looking for chemistry and GFE, so maybe I'm not settling.[/QUOTE]The word I use is AFFECTION. It's sometimes said men are pigs and some are. But I find a lot are just like me (and perhaps u) where just a bit of affection goes a long ways. I want to feel like someone cares for me and really likes me (even if it's a bit of a put on). A hug and kiss. I text that she's been missing you. These are little things but they matter to a lot of guys.
Layla and I chat a little most every night. Missing you. Netflix. Useless shit. It just feels nice having a girlfriend. The way I put it is the $$ covers the age and looks gap but other than that SA should feel like having a girlfriend, without the drama, cuz u both know its not leading to an LTR.
Oh — I should be clear that Layla is (so far) the closest I’ve been to a traditional LT sugar relationship. Almost all my girls have a been a night or two, with the promise of more, which Covid killed dead. And one girl I got pretty regular with but it still felt mostly like sex not affection. Don’t get me wrong - it was awesome - and was my longest SB so far. Hoping Layla sets a new record.
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[QUOTE=Steve9696;2477881]The word I use is AFFECTION. It's sometimes said men are pigs and some are. But I find a lot are just like me (and perhaps u) where just a bit of affection goes a long ways. I want to feel like someone cares for me and really likes me (even if it's a bit of a put on). A hug and kiss. I text that she's been missing you. These are little things but they matter to a lot of guys.
Layla and I chat a little most every night. Missing you. Netflix. Useless shit. It just feels nice having a girlfriend. The way I put it is the $$ covers the age and looks gap but other than that SA should feel like having a girlfriend, without the drama, cuz u both know its not leading to an LTR.
Oh I should be clear that Layla is (so far) the closest Ive been to a traditional LT sugar relationship. Almost all my girls have a been a night or two, with the promise of more, which Covid killed dead. And one girl I got pretty regular with but it still felt mostly like sex not affection. Dont get me wrong - it was awesome - and was my longest SB so far. Hoping Layla sets a new record.[/QUOTE]Got to say, SA is great for finding gems like you have with Layla. I use it in the states as well as abroad. I still have girls I chat with in Mexico and Columbia that I found on SA or CC. One is a student in GDL, 21 yrs old and absolutely gorgeous. Found her on SA, met in GDL last year for a few nights. We still chat on whatsapp and talk about what's going on. I'm planning another trip back to Mexico in November. This time in Puebla. She wants to come spend a few days with me there. No mention of money or anything, just wanting to spend time together. She is such a sweet loving thing. A lot of guys on ISG have been down on SA, but I have found it to be a great tool when I am planning another trip. I don't even think about strip clubs, ect. Anymore.
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[QUOTE=Bdb013;2477933]Got to say, SA is great for finding gems like you have with Layla. I use it in the states as well as abroad. I still have girls I chat with in Mexico and Columbia that I found on SA or CC. One is a student in GDL, 21 yrs old and absolutely gorgeous. Found her on SA, met in GDL last year for a few nights. We still chat on whatsapp and talk about what's going on. I'm planning another trip back to Mexico in November. This time in Puebla. She wants to come spend a few days with me there. No mention of money or anything, just wanting to spend time together. She is such a sweet loving thing. A lot of guys on ISG have been down on SA, but I have found it to be a great tool when I am planning another trip. I don't even think about strip clubs, ect. Anymore.[/QUOTE]SA works like a charm in MTY. I am just can not believe it. Yes, it works in the states, but much more time and b. S.
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Down on SA
[QUOTE=Bdb013;2477933]Got to say, SA is great for finding gems like you have with Layla. I use it in the states as well as abroad. I still have girls I chat with in Mexico and Columbia that I found on SA or CC. One is a student in GDL, 21 yrs old and absolutely gorgeous. Found her on SA, met in GDL last year for a few nights. We still chat on whatsapp and talk about what's going on. I'm planning another trip back to Mexico in November. This time in Puebla. She wants to come spend a few days with me there. No mention of money or anything, just wanting to spend time together. She is such a sweet loving thing. A lot of guys on ISG have been down on SA, but I have found it to be a great tool when I am planning another trip. I don't even think about strip clubs, ect. Anymore.[/QUOTE]I have seen some negative comments in here. But I think it just stems from a mismatch in their needs or what they are bringing to the table. For example if they only need sex and not affection or out-of-room chemistry then SA just seems like too much work and I would agree. To be succcessful on SA you have to bring this to the table:
1. A lot of time.
2. A lot of patience.
3. Solid text game.
4. Not treating girls like pros and objects.
5. Solid in-person game.
6. Non-objectionable looks (maybe).
If you can bring this to the party, the party is ON!
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Steve, you are spot on. It is an investment of time and money. Its not cheap nor quick. I can go thru many girls to find a few I really like and get excited about meeting. But when everything lines up. The Party is On.
[QUOTE=Steve9696;2477950]I have seen some negative comments in here. But I think it just stems from a mismatch in their needs or what they are bringing to the table. For example if they only need sex and not affection or out-of-room chemistry then SA just seems like too much work and I would agree. To be succcessful on SA you have to bring this to the table:
1. A lot of time.
2. A lot of patience.
3. Solid text game.
4. Not treating girls like pros and objects.
5. Solid in-person game.
6. Non-objectionable looks (maybe).
If you can bring this to the party, the party is ON![/QUOTE]
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Crazy 20 hours
This will be long and boring, and if you don't believe any or some of it, then I won't blame you, because I can barely believe it myself, even though it happened to me just now.
So, yesterday, after my previous post in this thread, I decide to go look for the homely girl, and I found her at the same place where I met her the first time. We again had a good chat, and it just felt cozy to be with her. How bizarre, I thought. So anyway, I got her WeChat.
Last night, around 10 pm, I texted her, and then we texted back and forth. Then suddenly, I shit you not, she says it's too bad we were not in a hotel room. Holy fucking cow! Is she a pro? She can't be, I thought, because she has one of those minimum wage jobs. But maybe she hooks on the side and because I'm a foreigner maybe she thinks I'm a viable client, and that's probably why she was flirty the two times we interacted. After all, she has a superb bod from what I can tell, so maybe she takes advantage of it for extra income.
Anyway, we keep texting about hooking up and all that, but eventually, I had to go to bed. So I said goodnight. I shower and then hit the sack, but before I turn off my phone, I check my messages one last time, and lo and behold, my ATF pro suddenly sent me a text. She had disappeared for several months, but now she suddenly reappeared. I don't know why she disappeared, but who cares. So, we make plans for a meetup at some point. And, I go to sleep very, very happy. Homely is potentially on the hook, and my ATF pro is back in the picture.
This morning, I'm at work, and I get a text from the receptionist that I tried to make into an SB. I hadn't heard from her in 6 weeks! A quick recap about her. She was someone that I flirted with, and then was finally able to get an invite to her home, but I just banged her like she was a pro and gave her money and left. The next day, she went on a rampage about how I'm a womanizer and all that, but long story short, I saw her one more time, and then she kept dodging me afterwards and finally I got the hint and stopped pursuing her.
Anyway, today, the receptionist texts me out of the blue, "Want to come over?" I was shocked. I replied, "Don't you have to work?" And she replied, "I lost my job. " Ahhhhh, now I get it. When she asked me to come over, she was really asking me to bring my money over. So, I said I will come now. I arrive, I shower, I then do DATY and then we bareback, and she cums, and she asks why I don't cum, but I wanted to bang her some more, but eventually, she said she was sore. So, after some cuddling, I said I have to go to work. I could tell she was annoyed that I continued to treat her like a pro. But what can I do? Anyway, I gave her the usual amount, plus extra. I told her I was giving her extra to tie her over until she finds another job.
I then return to the office, and thinking to myself that I had a nut that needed busting. So, I was thinking whether I should go to a HJ MP, BJ MP, or FS MP.
Suddenly, I shit you not, I get a message from a pro that I have not seen in two years. She must be around 21-22 years old now. Phenomenal body. Everything is so firm. She was also a fave of mine, partly because she seems to genuinely like being with me. But she moved back to her hometown a couple of years ago. But now she was back in town, and so she asks me if I want to see her and that she was available today. So, I said, I'm coming now. And 25 minutes later, I arrive, and we had a great session and my problem of the unbusted nut was solved.
I guess it's true that when it rains, it pours.
The end.
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2478155]This will be long and boring, and if you don't believe any or some of it, then I won't blame you, because I can barely believe it myself, even though it happened to me just now.
So, yesterday, after my previous post in this thread, I decide to go look for the homely girl, and I found her at the same place where I met her the first time. We again had a good chat, and it just felt cozy to be with her. How bizarre, I thought. So anyway, I got her WeChat.
Last night, around 10 pm, I texted her, and then we texted back and forth. Then suddenly, I shit you not, she says it's too bad we were not in a hotel room. Holy fucking cow! Is she a pro? She can't be, I thought, because she has one of those minimum wage jobs. But maybe she hooks on the side and because I'm a foreigner maybe she thinks I'm a viable client, and that's probably why she was flirty the two times we interacted. After all, she has a superb bod from what I can tell, so maybe she takes advantage of it for extra income.
Anyway, we keep texting about hooking up and all that, but eventually, I had to go to bed. So I said goodnight. I shower and then hit the sack, but before I turn off my phone, I check my messages one last time, and lo and behold, my ATF pro suddenly sent me a text. She had disappeared for several months, but now she suddenly reappeared. I don't know why she disappeared, but who cares. So, we make plans for a meetup at some point. And, I go to sleep very, very happy. Homely is potentially on the hook, and my ATF pro is back in the picture.[/QUOTE]Haha this was a good story.
In what country is this?
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Kill it MW!
[QUOTE=Midwestern;2478155]This will be long and boring, and if you don't believe any or some of it, then I won't blame you, because I can barely believe it myself, even though it happened to me just now.
So, yesterday, after my previous post in this thread, I decide to go look for the homely girl, and I found her at the same place where I met her the first time. We again had a good chat, and it just felt cozy to be with her. How bizarre, I thought. So anyway, I got her WeChat.
Last night, around 10 pm, I texted her, and then we texted back and forth. Then suddenly, I shit you not, she says it's too bad we were not in a hotel room. Holy fucking cow! Is she a pro? She can't be, I thought, because she has one of those minimum wage jobs. But maybe she hooks on the side and because I'm a foreigner maybe she thinks I'm a viable client, and that's probably why she was flirty the two times we interacted. After all, she has a superb bod from what I can tell, so maybe she takes advantage of it for extra income.
Anyway, we keep texting about hooking up and all that, but eventually, I had to go to bed. So I said goodnight. I shower and then hit the sack, but before I turn off my phone, I check my messages one last time, and lo and behold, my ATF pro suddenly sent me a text. She had disappeared for several months, but now she suddenly reappeared. I don't know why she disappeared, but who cares. So, we make plans for a meetup at some point. And, I go to sleep very, very happy. Homely is potentially on the hook, and my ATF pro is back in the picture.
This morning, I'm at work, and I get a text from the receptionist that I tried to make into an SB. I hadn't heard from her in 6 weeks! A quick recap about her. She was someone that I flirted with, and then was finally able to get an invite to her home, but I just banged her like she was a pro and gave her money and left. The next day, she went on a rampage about how I'm a womanizer and all that, but long story short, I saw her one more time, and then she kept dodging me afterwards and finally I got the hint and stopped pursuing her.
Anyway, today, the receptionist texts me out of the blue, "Want to come over?" I was shocked. I replied, "Don't you have to work?" And she replied, "I lost my job. " Ahhhhh, now I get it. When she asked me to come over, she was really asking me to bring my money over. So, I said I will come now. I arrive, I shower, I then do DATY and then we bareback, and she cums, and she asks why I don't cum, but I wanted to bang her some more, but eventually, she said she was sore. So, after some cuddling, I said I have to go to work. I could tell she was annoyed that I continued to treat her like a pro. But what can I do? Anyway, I gave her the usual amount, plus extra. I told her I was giving her extra to tie her over until she finds another job.
I then return to the office, and thinking to myself that I had a nut that needed busting. So, I was thinking whether I should go to a HJ MP, BJ MP, or FS MP.
Suddenly, I shit you not, I get a message from a pro that I have not seen in two years. She must be around 21-22 years old now. Phenomenal body. Everything is so firm. She was also a fave of mine, partly because she seems to genuinely like being with me. But she moved back to her hometown a couple of years ago. But now she was back in town, and so she asks me if I want to see her and that she was available today. So, I said, I'm coming now. And 25 minutes later, I arrive, and we had a great session and my problem of the unbusted nut was solved.
I guess it's true that when it rains, it pours.
The end.[/QUOTE]Congrats MW. I believe every word is gospel. Why would you make that shit up. And yes when it rains it pours. It's spooky really. I will be in a drought and sudddenly 3 girls are texting me. No logical explanation. Just happens. Congrats!
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MW is in China
[QUOTE=Alabastern;2478197]Haha this was a good story.
In what country is this?[/QUOTE]Guess MW is too busy fucking to answer. LOL. He's in China but not from there. Did a bunch of US SA before his time in China.
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Update on homely girl
I texted her last night, and after chatting for a bit, we talk about meeting in a hotel again, but again she slightly diverts the discussion to taking a vacation together. So I said, sure, we can take a short vacation together. I was just bullshitting of course. Then, she asked if she could be my GF. LOL. We've only met twice, all we did was chat, and each time it was for about 10 minutes. I said sure. Then she asked if I could pay her rent. LOL. Okay, she's not new to this "arrangement" thing. I reply with a "surprise" emoji. Then she quickly says that her rent is not high, only $450 per month. Now that's an affordable arrangement, LOL. So then I texted, how about we meet in a hotel first, to establish chemistry. She said okay. Fingers crossed.
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[QUOTE=Steve9696;2478864]Guess MW is too busy fucking to answer. LOL. He's in China but not from there. Did a bunch of US SA before his time in China.[/QUOTE]Yep, I'm in Shanghai.
Steve was active in the Shanghai thread when he was here for a spell. In one of his posts, he brought up how SA was probably the best option in the United States. Coincidentally, I too have a passion for SA, so I moved our discussion about it to the Dating Agencies forum and out of the Shanghai forum, so that we could **all** talk about and share our SA experiences.
Steve is the originator and founder of this SA forum.
As for Shanghai, the MP scene pretty much is back to normal, but other venues are not back to normal. For example, incall and outcall action seem to be far from 100% normal for a variety of reasons, and so I am looking for arrangements now. I'm not using SA. Instead, I'm trying to find arrangements by hitting on "migrant workers. " They are girls that come to Shanghai from 2nd tier cities to find work. Minimum wage in Shanghai is double the minimum wage in their second tier cities. This is enough for them to leave home. They make about $1,000 per month in Shanghai. So, an arrangement that pays them $1,000 then gives them quadruple their home salary. A thousand bux does not cause much damage to my wallet. So, this can be a win-win for me and the SB. Seems like this would be hard, but I am finding that it is not that hard. These girls are desperate for money, and they are VERY flattered that a foreigner would be interested in them. The only awkward part is that most of them have never been in an arrangement before, so that makes this a bit challenging but also kind of interesting.
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Homely girl
[QUOTE=Midwestern;2478875]I texted her last night, and after chatting for a bit, we talk about meeting in a hotel again, but again she slightly diverts the discussion to taking a vacation together. So I said, sure, we can take a short vacation together. I was just bullshitting of course. Then, she asked if she could be my GF. LOL. We've only met twice, all we did was chat, and each time it was for about 10 minutes. I said sure. Then she asked if I could pay her rent. LOL. Okay, she's not new to this "arrangement" thing. I reply with a "surprise" emoji. Then she quickly says that her rent is not high, only $450 per month. Now that's an affordable arrangement, LOL. So then I texted, how about we meet in a hotel first, to establish chemistry. She said okay. Fingers crossed.[/QUOTE]An update.
Next morning, I look at my phone, and there's a text message from her. She took the day off, and asking again if I can pay her rent this month. So I said let's meet in a hotel. She says yes, but again insists on me paying her rent ($450). She sounded genuinely desperate, so I took the plunge and said okay, but I pick the hotel (it is $80 at the one near me) and she pays for it and also her roundtrip taxi fare ($30 is protocol here). Plus, I said this is a one-time deal. The per meet rate cannot be this high. She says okay. I tell her the hotel name, she books the room.
I then text her, don't wear makeup. I hate makeup. She says okay.
At 1 pm, she sends me a pic of her in the taxi, on the way to the hotel. I get on a rental bike and pedal over.
At 1:15 pm, she sends me a pic of her room number.
At 1:30 pm, I knock on her door.
Bros, I am not kidding or exaggerating when I say this, but when she opened the door, I was absolutely stunned. She is beautiful without her crappy and cheap and clownish makeup. If you're American, then you may remember the sitcom "Just Shoot Me. " I had a huge crush on the Maya Gallo character. Well, homely girl without makeup looks like a 16 year old version of Maya. Even her hair color and style, and dimples and smile, and especially her eyes, made her look like a teenage Maya.
I shower and we hit the bed. She asks why we are not going out. I then realize that she got dressed up for our date, LOL. (Later, I will discover that she thought we were going to spend the entire day together, and then stay overnight at the hotel. So, I guess asking for $450 wasn't being obnoxious, as she thought it would be a 20 hour date.).
We are cuddling, and then she unwraps my towel to check out my junk. She says I am huge and giggles. I ask her to take off her clothes, and she is so shy and giggly. But finally, they come off. Bros, I am not kidding, her body was phenomenal. Everything was firm, smooth, and soft. A young and nearly flawless body. You could bounce a quarter off of her stomach.
So, face and body, almost a 9 each.
DATY and then bareback sex. The look on her face was one of pleasure, disbelief, enjoyable pain, and ecstasy. She could barely breathe. And she is just clenching onto my shoulders as if she was drowning and trying desperately to hold on to save herself.
After an hour of sex, then we cuddled for an hour and chatted. She was asking me all kinds of questions about me and my life. She was so curious about me and so into me. She laughed at all of my jokes. To have this beautiful and young girl curled up next me, while both of us naked, made me feel like I was in college and in love again.
Afterwards, I told her I had to return to work. She was stunned that I was leaving. But for the rest of the day, we continued to text each other.
Bros, I am fucking smitten and totally infatuated. This probably means that I'm doomed, LOL.
A week and a half ago, I was down in the dumps. Then suddenly, she comes into my life. I am desperately hoping that this is the start of a fruitful, enjoyable, and satisfying arrangement.
The end.
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Congrats MW
[QUOTE=Midwestern;2479154]An update.
Next morning, I look at my phone, and there's a text message from her. She took the day off, and asking again if I can pay her rent this month. So I said let's meet in a hotel. She says yes, but again insists on me paying her rent ($450). She sounded genuinely desperate, so I took the plunge and said okay, but I pick the hotel (it is $80 at the one near me) and she pays for it and also her roundtrip taxi fare ($30 is protocol here). Plus, I said this is a one-time deal. The per meet rate cannot be this high. She says okay. I tell her the hotel name, she books the room.
I then text her, don't wear makeup. I hate makeup. She says okay.
At 1 pm, she sends me a pic of her in the taxi, on the way to the hotel. I get on a rental bike and pedal over.
At 1:15 pm, she sends me a pic of her room number.
At 1:30 pm, I knock on her door.
Bros, I am not kidding or exaggerating when I say this, but when she opened the door, I was absolutely stunned. She is beautiful without her crappy and cheap and clownish makeup. If you're American, then you may remember the sitcom "Just Shoot Me. " I had a huge crush on the Maya Gallo character. Well, homely girl without makeup looks like a 16 year old version of Maya. Even her hair color and style, and dimples and smile, and especially her eyes, made her look like a teenage Maya.
I shower and we hit the bed. She asks why we are not going out. I then realize that she got dressed up for our date, LOL. (Later, I will discover that she thought we were going to spend the entire day together, and then stay overnight at the hotel. So, I guess asking for $450 wasn't being obnoxious, as she thought it would be a 20 hour date.).
We are cuddling, and then she unwraps my towel to check out my junk. She says I am huge and giggles. I ask her to take off her clothes, and she is so shy and giggly. But finally, they come off. Bros, I am not kidding, her body was phenomenal. Everything was firm, smooth, and soft. A young and nearly flawless body. You could bounce a quarter off of her stomach.
So, face and body, almost a 9 each.
DATY and then bareback sex. The look on her face was one of pleasure, disbelief, enjoyable pain, and ecstasy. She could barely breathe. And she is just clenching onto my shoulders as if she was drowning and trying desperately to hold on to save herself.
After an hour of sex, then we cuddled for an hour and chatted. She was asking me all kinds of questions about me and my life. She was so curious about me and so into me. She laughed at all of my jokes. To have this beautiful and young girl curled up next me, while both of us naked, made me feel like I was in college and in love again.
Afterwards, I told her I had to return to work. She was stunned that I was leaving. But for the rest of the day, we continued to text each other.
Bros, I am fucking smitten and totally infatuated. This probably means that I'm doomed, LOL.
A week and a half ago, I was down in the dumps. Then suddenly, she comes into my life. I am desperately hoping that this is the start of a fruitful, enjoyable, and satisfying arrangement.
The end.[/QUOTE]Dude this is too awesome. And so little going on worldwide right now. Thanks for the epic post. You going to have to splain tho how a girl goes from homely (unattractive) to a nine by taking OFF her makeup. LOL. You got some black magic voodoo going on?
Some unsolicited advice don't let it become pay for play or go overboard with $$. You paid her rent for god sakes. That means it's a lot of money to her. She should be girlfriending you for a bit and you gift her again when you want to. Not money for sex each time. But obviously since you dig her do what you feel.
Just recently moved to more of this model with Layla. She is trying to get a new car. Gave her a $1000 advance gift saying we'the figure out starting gifts again in late September. It's really just a timing thing same $$ but she is over the moon that I am helping her with her life. It will pay off. I can feel her vibe already changing.
Aha Maya Gallo = Laura San Giacomo. Omfg I só crush on her. U lucky dog!
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[QUOTE=Steve9696;2479251]Dude this is too awesome. And so little going on worldwide right now. Thanks for the epic post. You going to have to splain tho how a girl goes from homely (unattractive) to a nine by taking OFF her makeup. LOL. You got some black magic voodoo going on?
Some unsolicited advice don't let it become pay for play or go overboard with $$. You paid her rent for god sakes. That means it's a lot of money to her. She should be girlfriending you for a bit and you gift her again when you want to. Not money for sex each time. But obviously since you dig her do what you feel.
Just recently moved to more of this model with Layla. She is trying to get a new car. Gave her a $1000 advance gift saying we'the figure out starting gifts again in late September. It's really just a timing thing same $$ but she is over the moon that I am helping her with her life. It will pay off. I can feel her vibe already changing.
Aha Maya Gallo = Laura San Giacomo. Omfg I s crush on her. U lucky dog![/QUOTE]She has already become a HUGE FUCKING PAIN IN MY ASS! Today, she grills me for two hours on text, asking me if I always meet girls in hotel rooms. Jeezus fucking crist, it was her fucking original idea. And asking if I have a wife, and why we cannot meet at my place, etc. So, I tell her that I am divorced and my kid lives with me. Doesn't matter if this is true. But what do you think about this story?
Anyway, after 2 fucking hours of being grilled, I finally say the following: I like you and I like sex. You like me and you need money. Let's meet for sex and I give you money.
Well, that didn't go over well at all. She's saying that this is not what a real relationship is, and all that shit. I'm thinking, jeezus, so now you act like you're not a pay for play girl AFTER I paid your fucking rent?
Anyway, she wants to be my real GF. This is not what I want. But I need my cock in that body. So, I'm thinking about hanging out with her tomorrow and taking another hit.
Steve, I'm hoping yours is going smoother than mine, man. The main difference is that Layla signed up for an arrangement. As for me, I am trying to talk someone into an arrangement.
BTW, I'm drunk as I'm typing this.
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Yep Tough One
[QUOTE=Midwestern;2479281]She has already become a HUGE FUCKING PAIN IN MY ASS! Today, she grills me for two hours on text, asking me if I always meet girls in hotel rooms. Jeezus fucking crist, it was her fucking original idea. And asking if I have a wife, and why we cannot meet at my place, etc. So, I tell her that I am divorced and my kid lives with me. Doesn't matter if this is true. But what do you think about this story?
Anyway, after 2 fucking hours of being grilled, I finally say the following: I like you and I like sex. You like me and you need money. Let's meet for sex and I give you money.
Well, that didn't go over well at all. She's saying that this is not what a real relationship is, and all that shit. I'm thinking, jeezus, so now you act like you're not a pay for play girl AFTER I paid your fucking rent?
Anyway, she wants to be my real GF. This is not what I want. But I need my cock in that body. So, I'm thinking about hanging out with her tomorrow and taking another hit.
Steve, I'm hoping yours is going smoother than mine, man. The main difference is that Layla signed up for an arrangement. As for me, I am trying to talk someone into an arrangement.
BTW, I'm drunk as I'm typing this.[/QUOTE]That sucks that it went to hell so fast. Not that I should be giving advice but I think you have twice fucked up a good thing by treating girls like pros. This is the cardinal sin of SBSD (or really real life also). As soon as it feels transactional these crossover girls run for the hills. Remember the cow and meat analogy. No one wants to pay a guy to kill a cow in front of him. I want to buy the steak a long distance away from the killing. Keep the sex and the money as distant as possible.
I suggest you try playing BF for a bit. No $$ for a bit. Tell her you really like her but you are not long term boyfriend material. If she likes having a rich boyfriend but never more than that it's all cool. If she's here for LTR you are not that guy. But you are going to have to play boyfriend some if you want her. She's not down for strict sex for money.
P.S. Stop barebacking! This girl will ruin your world if she gets pregnant.
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2479281]She has already become a HUGE FUCKING PAIN IN MY ASS! Today, she grills me for two hours on text, asking me if I always meet girls in hotel rooms. Jeezus fucking crist, it was her fucking original idea. And asking if I have a wife, and why we cannot meet at my place, etc. So, I tell her that I am divorced and my kid lives with me. Doesn't matter if this is true. But what do you think about this story?
Anyway, after 2 fucking hours of being grilled, I finally say the following: I like you and I like sex. You like me and you need money. Let's meet for sex and I give you money.
Well, that didn't go over well at all. She's saying that this is not what a real relationship is, and all that shit. I'm thinking, jeezus, so now you act like you're not a pay for play girl AFTER I paid your fucking rent?
Anyway, she wants to be my real GF. This is not what I want. But I need my cock in that body. So, I'm thinking about hanging out with her tomorrow and taking another hit.
Steve, I'm hoping yours is going smoother than mine, man. The main difference is that Layla signed up for an arrangement. As for me, I am trying to talk someone into an arrangement.
BTW, I'm drunk as I'm typing this.[/QUOTE]Isn't this similar to the receptionist? They are young and you met casually. They are not really pros until after you paid them. I would not indicate to the homely girl it is going to be ppm. I don't think she expected that. I think you will have free sex after that. You are a nice guy who doesn't take advantage of them, and I will want you to be a friend. The impression I get from your reports is that you only want to have sex, but you don't want to be with them when you are not having sex. You are also too rigid with how you pay them but I don't know if that is a good thing or bad.
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[QUOTE=Steve9696;2479339]That sucks that it went to hell so fast. Not that I should be giving advice but I think you have twice fucked up a good thing by treating girls like pros. This is the cardinal sin of SBSD (or really real life also). As soon as it feels transactional these crossover girls run for the hills. Remember the cow and meat analogy. No one wants to pay a guy to kill a cow in front of him. I want to buy the steak a long distance away from the killing. Keep the sex and the money as distant as possible.
I suggest you try playing BF for a bit. No $$ for a bit. Tell her you really like her but you are not long term boyfriend material. If she likes having a rich boyfriend but never more than that it's all cool. If she's here for LTR you are not that guy. But you are going to have to play boyfriend some if you want her. She's not down for strict sex for money.
P.S. Stop barebacking! This girl will ruin your world if she gets pregnant.[/QUOTE]Sound advice. Getting a non-pro pregnant is asking for unbelievable trouble. Still, I envy his situation. But can't have it both ways. You need to treat (or at least pretend) to be a boyfriend or make it pay for play. As they say, you don't pay them for sex, you pay them to go away. That is why the SB situation is almost ideal. You get the non-pros, but they are not looking for a long term relationship. I am so disappointed that covid makes it too risky in the USA. The young or desperate do not take precautions and I do not want to risk my health. You simply can't trust what they say when you barely know them. I would love to check out the NYC scene. Lots of hotels with roof top bars which are perfect for meeting with more fun in your room below.
BTW, beware of the Chinese dragon lady. They can throw a fit like nobody's business. Some of these young girls are quite immature. They seem a lot of money and dream of a life of fantasy. Philipino women are more realistic with less drama.
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ASD. Pay for Other Stuff
[QUOTE=Nounce;2479404]Isn't this similar to the receptionist? They are young and you met casually. They are not really pros until after you paid them. I would not indicate to the homely girl it is going to be ppm. I don't think she expected that. I think you will have free sex after that. You are a nice guy who doesn't take advantage of them, and I will want you to be a friend. The impression I get from your reports is that you only want to have sex, but you don't want to be with them when you are not having sex. You are also too rigid with how you pay them but I don't know if that is a good thing or bad.[/QUOTE]Right. In Nanpa they call it ASD. Anti Sl*t Defense. No girl wants to think herself a sl*t or pro even if that is the end result. You saw your encounter as pay for sex. She saw it as "he's a nice guy and paid my rent. I had sex with him because I like him". She tries to distance the two in her mind. So if you can have sex for free a couple times and then help her with her rent or some other tangible item this helps her distance it. You are HELPING HER because u like each other.
To guys this is bullshit rationalization. To girls it's essential. To you it's essential for getting in her pants.
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2479281]She has already become a HUGE FUCKING PAIN IN MY ASS! Today, she grills me for two hours on text, asking me if I always meet girls in hotel rooms. Jeezus fucking crist, it was her fucking original idea. And asking if I have a wife, and why we cannot meet at my place, etc. So, I tell her that I am divorced and my kid lives with me. Doesn't matter if this is true. But what do you think about this story?
[/QUOTE]The other forum members aren't saying this to you. You need to get rid of her. If you think she is a pain now, just wait until she finds out you have been lying to her for 2, 3, 5, 6, 10 months. She sounds like a motivated woman who is simply not playing the same game as you.
She does sound hot though.
Briz.
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Directing someone to an arrangement
Akibono, Nounce, Steve.
You guys are all correct. But I do not want a girlfriend in the city where I live and work. Two main reasons: (1) I don't have the time and (2) I don't want to get caught.
And yet, I don't want to be with a real pro all the time. Sometimes, I like being liked. Sounds kinda gay, but whatever. It's true. So, an arrangement with someone poor and who likes me would be the ideal situation. I think this is what we are all looking for on SA. However, my problem is that I am trying to talk girls that like me into an arrangement. They were not initially seeking an arrangement. So, this is a challenge, for all the reasons that you guys pointed out.
I wonder at what point a non-pro decides that she now want to get paid for fucking. One girl I knew on SA told me the following: "Why am I having sex with poor guys for free when I can be having sex with rich guys for money?" She said this voluntarily, as if to justify why she was on SA. I need these girls to come to the same epiphany.
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[QUOTE=BrizLad;2479594]The other forum members aren't saying this to you. You need to get rid of her. If you think she is a pain now, just wait until she finds out you have been lying to her for 2, 3, 5, 6, 10 months. She sounds like a motivated woman who is simply not playing the same game as you.
She does sound hot though.
Briz.[/QUOTE]I know. Yesterday, I actually thought about breaking it off. I started a text message to her where I was going to say that we should just be friends only, but then I remembered how good it felt being with her naked, and so I deleted the text. Also, we video chatted yesterday, and I just couldn't believe how beautiful she was. So, I'm torn. But I am still 50-50 on breaking this off. I know it is for the best in the long run, but sometimes I want what is best for my kok in the short run, LOL.
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2479595]Akibono, Nounce, Steve.
You guys are all correct. But I do not want a girlfriend in the city where I live and work. Two main reasons: (1) I don't have the time and (2) I don't want to get caught.
And yet, I don't want to be with a real pro all the time. Sometimes, I like being liked. Sounds kinda gay, but whatever. It's true. So, an arrangement with someone poor and who likes me would be the ideal situation. I think this is what we are all looking for on SA. However, my problem is that I am trying to talk girls that like me into an arrangement. They were not initially seeking an arrangement. So, this is a challenge, for all the reasons that you guys pointed out.
I wonder at what point a non-pro decides that she now want to get paid for fucking. One girl I knew on SA told me the following: "Why am I having sex with poor guys for free when I can be having sex with rich guys for money?" She said this voluntarily, as if to justify why she was on SA. I need these girls to come to the same epiphany.[/QUOTE]In some ways, you are already there you have paid her a large sum of money. She has slept with you twice. Clearly, the money is meaningful, but she has feelings of jealousy and being abandoned or used. I would just play it cool. It will take some work from you. If you do not want to invest the time to have a relationship, then tell her that is your parameter and let her decide. Tell her you are willing to help her financially and do want a relationship, but it would be limited. It is up to her to decide. It is always better for them to leave than for you to cut it off. In the meantime, you can do some fun things together and have sex when she is OK with it. Just treat it more like a GF and don't pay. If she hints and asks for money, then give it to her. That will ease the transition. When she gets used to the money, it becomes an arrangement, but she may dump you for someone "better. " Right now, she is in pretty woman mode. She sees what you can provide and wants it all.
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2479595]I need these girls to come to the same epiphany.[/QUOTE]Have you proposed a monthly allowance for a NSA relationship? I think that may provide girls a different perspective. PPM feels like it is going to end every time.
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2479602]I know. Yesterday, I actually thought about breaking it off. I started a text message to her where I was going to say that we should just be friends only, but then I remembered how good it felt being with her naked, and so I deleted the text. Also, we video chatted yesterday, and I just couldn't believe how beautiful she was. So, I'm torn. But I am still 50-50 on breaking this off. I know it is for the best in the long run, but sometimes I want what is best for my kok in the short run, LOL.[/QUOTE]This sounds just like one of my recent arrangements. She tired to get back together, I offered PPM and she got upset. We were on a monthly arrangement, but she screwed it up by her drinking. She was smoking Hot, so I let a lot of things go, but her drinking was impacting my job. She wanted to drink all night and sleep the day away. This just does not work for me, I have fun, but I take my Business very serious. I tired explaining this to her and tried to get her to be more productive, but no luck. Part of the issues was the Quarantine in MTY, it was very strict, now loosening up, she was not able to get a job or was using as an excuse, maybe both. Never the less I think we are done, shame, but that is life.
Good news is that I am killing it here, meeting high quality, very nice and beautiful girls. There is a not a middle ground in in MTY like in Europe or Russia, but there some smoking hot skinny girls that are very available. Almost zero Sex Tourist here, unlike some of the other destinations I use to visit, another huge advantage. Another plus 25-35% of the women I have been with here love Anal, I would have never guessed that in million years. SA is so good here.
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Cdmx labor day weekend
I am traveling to Cdmx staying in the polanco area. Have a few already lined up! I did a lot of scouting these past 2 weeks and believe I have 3 good English speaking women more than happy go show me a good time. I probably offered to much! Hey what can I say Dollar is strong. May try out a Twitter girl also if time allows.
It has been fun finding and weeding them out tho!
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Update
Most of you guys suggested that I try "dating" her for a while, and to try to make sex less transactional. So, I went on three day dates with her. We just did lunch and some window shopping for two dates, and on the third date we watched a movie. Later that night, after the third date, I texted her that I was starting to like her more and more. And so I said I wanted to be her boyfriend, and since I was her boyfriend that I should help her out financially. She was thrilled. So I asked her how much financial support she needs. She said her major stress is paying her monthly mortgage, which is $1,200 per month. After some back and forth, I finally agreed to it. And then she said that she will be a great girlfriend. As for what will I get out of it, we will see. She did mention that we should have sex every once in a while, LOL. No shit. Anyway, thanks everyone for indulging me with your thoughts and comments and suggestions. Hope this works out. And, I hope all of you guys are getting laid out there too.
[QUOTE=Midwestern;2479595]Akibono, Nounce, Steve.
You guys are all correct. But I do not want a girlfriend in the city where I live and work. Two main reasons: (1) I don't have the time and (2) I don't want to get caught.
And yet, I don't want to be with a real pro all the time. Sometimes, I like being liked. Sounds kinda gay, but whatever. It's true. So, an arrangement with someone poor and who likes me would be the ideal situation. I think this is what we are all looking for on SA. However, my problem is that I am trying to talk girls that like me into an arrangement. They were not initially seeking an arrangement. So, this is a challenge, for all the reasons that you guys pointed out.
I wonder at what point a non-pro decides that she now want to get paid for fucking. One girl I knew on SA told me the following: "Why am I having sex with poor guys for free when I can be having sex with rich guys for money?" She said this voluntarily, as if to justify why she was on SA. I need these girls to come to the same epiphany.[/QUOTE].
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Well Played
[QUOTE=Midwestern;2480396]Most of you guys suggested that I try "dating" her for a while, and to try to make sex less transactional. So, I went on three day dates with her. We just did lunch and some window shopping for two dates, and on the third date we watched a movie. Later that night, after the third date, I texted her that I was starting to like her more and more. And so I said I wanted to be her boyfriend, and since I was her boyfriend that I should help her out financially. She was thrilled. So I asked her how much financial support she needs. She said her major stress is paying her monthly mortgage, which is $1,200 per month. After some back and forth, I finally agreed to it. And then she said that she will be a great girlfriend. As for what will I get out of it, we will see. She did mention that we should have sex every once in a while, LOL. No shit. Anyway, thanks everyone for indulging me with your thoughts and comments and suggestions. Hope this works out. And, I hope all of you guys are getting laid out there too.
.[/QUOTE]This sounds like great progress. Although three sexless dates might be over compensating. Make sure your next date is not only hotel but not only platonic. Suggest drinks get close physically say let's get out of here and take her to the hotel. Nothing fancy. The standard playbook.
You have the upper hand now. She needs to uphold the girlfriend part when you lead her there. Well played so far!
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2480396]Most of you guys suggested that I try "dating" her for a while, and to try to make sex less transactional. So, I went on three day dates with her. We just did lunch and some window shopping for two dates, and on the third date we watched a movie. Later that night, after the third date, I texted her that I was starting to like her more and more. And so I said I wanted to be her boyfriend, and since I was her boyfriend that I should help her out financially. She was thrilled. So I asked her how much financial support she needs. She said her major stress is paying her monthly mortgage, which is $1,200 per month. After some back and forth, I finally agreed to it. And then she said that she will be a great girlfriend. As for what will I get out of it, we will see. She did mention that we should have sex every once in a while, LOL. No shit. Anyway, thanks everyone for indulging me with your thoughts and comments and suggestions. Hope this works out. And, I hope all of you guys are getting laid out there too.
.[/QUOTE]I think you are turning into a playboy! Ha ha, hope you don't mind. She is hot and she has an apartment. Next suggestion you will be hearing from us will be to marry her.
I have the opposite problems because most of the SBs I try to date from dating sites turn out to be hookers. 99% of them want to go to hotel. Their excuse is that it is safer. My apartment has several doormen and several receptionists and they think it is not as safe as a hotel where I don't even need an ID to get a short time room. And they all want to have sex first and money up front. LOL.
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[QUOTE=Nounce;2480616]I think you are turning into a playboy! Ha ha, hope you don't mind. She is hot and she has an apartment. Next suggestion you will be hearing from us will be to marry her.
I have the opposite problems because most of the SBs I try to date from dating sites turn out to be hookers. 99% of them want to go to hotel. Their excuse is that it is safer. My apartment has several doormen and several receptionists and they think it is not as safe as a hotel where I don't even need an ID to get a short time room. And they all want to have sex first and money up front. LOL.[/QUOTE]Any hooker knows it is very dangerous to go to an apartment. There could be several men who will assault them. Genuine sbs are really trusting. This is especially true to they host. You could become a stalker. My problem with hookers in the US is they really are skanky hoes. Some are drug addicted and many have mental problems. In other countries, you get normal people that just need a quick buck, but would not be in this profession otherwise.
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Hit the Jackpot
One of the first girls I met on SA, we met April when the Quarantine was just beginning. We spent the night together it was fun, but everything was closed and we were stuck in the hotel. So it was not great experience. Quarantine and lock down gets much worse in MTY, she keeps text me, but I was on the fence about meeting again.
I accidentally deleted all my WhatsApp data, I get this message I thought it was a girl I met recently on SA. I did not recognize her, she had lost 10-15 pounds, the picture was incredible, I thought it might be photoshopped. She shows up in a dinner dress, and holly shit stunning. I could not keep my hands or my eyes off her. We had a great night at the restaurant and she spent the night. Loving SA and MTY.
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Where are you?
[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2480685]. Loving SA and MTY.[/QUOTE]Can you just confirm where is MTY? Is that Mexico? You are close to Monterrey International Airport or Monterrey the city centre?
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[QUOTE=BrizLad;2480784]Can you just confirm where is MTY? Is that Mexico? You are close to Monterrey International Airport or Monterrey the city centre?[/QUOTE]Yes, Monterrey Mexico.
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[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2480956]Yes, Monterrey Mexico.[/QUOTE]Thanks sounds like paradise.
I'm here in Australia. Generally new to the local sugar babe scene. I sense in general that the market is changing the longer that covid plays on people.
For now I'm fully employed and hoping there are more resourceful SYTs joining the SB scene.
BL.
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Value of a Rolodex!
Ha as I write this I know you old dudes know what I am talking about. But realize the girls we are dating have no idea what the fuck a Rolodex is. LOL. Is that like a Rolex only bettter?
But I digress. Quick update. Layla and I saw each other three times and it was going great. Then I get a text that her family is hassling her about why is she staying at hotels etc and she says she's an adult and going to work thru it. But now ghosted since Thursday. Not looking good. Not sure if for real her family shut her down or it's an elaborate way of ghosting. Doesn't matter I suppose. Just have to see what happens.
So I immediately set about looking up girls I was close to closing with but ghosted when Layla hit. Probably hit 5+ girls back up. Sure enough one is like "wow what great timing I was just about to rejoin SA because my last thing didn't pan out. " And long story short no beating around the Bush. She is DTF after in person meeting and chemistry match. So meeting up in a few days.
Pays to keep the Rolodex hot and handy! Keep the bullpen warm because you never know when you will need a pitcher!
P.S. Midwestern you must give us an update or I will fly to Shanghai and kick you in the nuts. Fess up. What's the latest?
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Odor
Just wondering how you tell a woman that her pussy juice smells like rotten fish? Or that she has butt odor when you do her doggy? The last 3 girls from the internet have all had smells. I wanted to throw them in the shower, but I am a real nice guy and don't want to be rude.
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[QUOTE=Realdeal80;2480120]I am traveling to Cdmx staying in the polanco area. Have a few already lined up! I did a lot of scouting these past 2 weeks and believe I have 3 good English speaking women more than happy go show me a good time. I probably offered to much! Hey what can I say Dollar is strong. May try out a Twitter girl also if time allows.
It has been fun finding and weeding them out tho![/QUOTE]Good luck, RD! I am in CDMX now. I have three chicas here. I will probably see 2. It looks like one got bit by the Covid bug but her case is not that bad. Only thing she has is a lost of smell and taste.
The number of quality women available in CDMX compared to preCovid times is off the chain.
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[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2481962]Good luck, RD! I am in CDMX now. I have three chicas here. I will probably see 2. It looks like one got bit by the Covid bug but her case is not that bad. Only thing she has is a lost of smell and taste.
The number of quality women available in CDMX compared to preCovid times is off the chain.[/QUOTE]Awesome, I am having the same experience in MTY. Have fun!
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[QUOTE=NeilGeorge;2481959]Just wondering how you tell a woman that her pussy juice smells like rotten fish? Or that she has butt odor when you do her doggy? The last 3 girls from the internet have all had smells. I wanted to throw them in the shower, but I am a real nice guy and don't want to be rude.[/QUOTE]Tell her you like to shower together as part of the foreplay, then wash each other, you doing her all over sensually, and massaging her pussy and ass with the soap lather.
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[QUOTE=Steve9696;2481951]Ha as I write this I know you old dudes know what I am talking about. But realize the girls we are dating have no idea what the fuck a Rolodex is. LOL. Is that like a Rolex only bettter?
But I digress. Quick update. Layla and I saw each other three times and it was going great. Then I get a text that her family is hassling her about why is she staying at hotels etc and she says she's an adult and going to work thru it. But now ghosted since Thursday. Not looking good. Not sure if for real her family shut her down or it's an elaborate way of ghosting. Doesn't matter I suppose. Just have to see what happens.
So I immediately set about looking up girls I was close to closing with but ghosted when Layla hit. Probably hit 5+ girls back up. Sure enough one is like "wow what great timing I was just about to rejoin SA because my last thing didn't pan out. " And long story short no beating around the Bush. She is DTF after in person meeting and chemistry match. So meeting up in a few days.
Pays to keep the Rolodex hot and handy! Keep the bullpen warm because you never know when you will need a pitcher!
P.S. Midwestern you must give us an update or I will fly to Shanghai and kick you in the nuts. Fess up. What's the latest?[/QUOTE]I had a huge Rolodex for work, and finally threw it away a few years ago. It was hard for me to do it, because I kinda got proud of all the contacts that I accumulated over the years, LOL.
Did Layla ghost you immediately after you gave her $1,000 to help with her car payments? Good that you have another gal on deck. Good luck!
As for my situation, it is a freaking roller coaster. I'm still in the middle of the ride, but I'll give you an update in another thread.
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Update
[QUOTE=Midwestern;2480396]Most of you guys suggested that I try "dating" her for a while, and to try to make sex less transactional. So, I went on three day dates with her. We just did lunch and some window shopping for two dates, and on the third date we watched a movie. Later that night, after the third date, I texted her that I was starting to like her more and more. And so I said I wanted to be her boyfriend, and since I was her boyfriend that I should help her out financially. She was thrilled. So I asked her how much financial support she needs. She said her major stress is paying her monthly mortgage, which is $1,200 per month. After some back and forth, I finally agreed to it. And then she said that she will be a great girlfriend. As for what will I get out of it, we will see. She did mention that we should have sex every once in a while, LOL. No shit. Anyway, thanks everyone for indulging me with your thoughts and comments and suggestions. Hope this works out. And, I hope all of you guys are getting laid out there too.
.[/QUOTE]The next day, she started her new job. Guess where? At a HJ MP. No lie. When she told me, it floored me. She then explained that she can make 3 x more money working at a HJ MP than at a regular minimum wage job. So, for two days, we had some back and forth. She was swearing that even though she'd be seeing men all day at her new job, that her heart really belonged to me and so I should trust her. Yeah right. So, I told her that we should just be friends.
Then suddenly, two days later, she quit her job. She said it was a disgusting job. No duh. Anyway, I went to see her, and when I saw her, my heart melted and we were all over each other. Later that night, she texted me that she's devoted to me and to our love, and to our future together. WTF?! I didn't know what to say. So, I just said, me too.
The next day, I decided that I needed to steer this ship into the right direction, and just have an arrangement, like what I always wanted. So, I came up with a two-part plan and acted on it.
Here's the first part.
I told her that I was already married and with a family. I knew this would cause a huge fucking firestorm, but I needed her to understand that I only wanted an arrangement. Anyway, sure enough, she was furious as hell, and I had to deal with her rage and wrath for two days. She eventually calmed down, and then she said she was going to delete my WeChat and that she was going to resume her job at the HJ MP. She said something like she now realizes that all men are disgusting, and so she might as well make a living off of it, and she also said something like those customers are disgusting, but I'm more disgusting because I'm a liar.
Here's the second part.
We now both know that we are both "bad" people. She is willing to give HJs for a living, and I am a married man but still mongers. We now know this about each other. (And hell, let's not forget that we had sex when we barely knew each other, in exchange for my paying her rent, so it's not like she was an angel ever. I'm even thinking that she might be a former pro, or at least a former HJ MP gal.) So, anyway, given that we now know that we are both "bad" people, I asked her to reconsider my initial proposal for an arrangement. She then sent me a picture of her middle finger, LOL.
But then, I tried to appeal to her sense of logic. I told her that she needs money, I need sex, and we actually like each other. (And as an aside, we both knew that we were never going to get married anyway. I'm almost twice her age, and I found out that she has a kid. And, she's from some remote rural part of China. In addition, I'm an American and my Chinese is very, very poor, and she can barely count to 5 in English. So, we both know we were never going to get married anyway.) Anyway, I think I started making some sense to her. She hasn't deleted my WeChat yet, and she reads my texts to her, and she replies, mostly with an insult, but sometimes with a question. And finally, she agreed to meet me one more time. She said if she doesn't feel anything for me when we meet, then we are done. I said okay.
So, that's where I am now. I am pondering what to do. Of course, I will meet her. But then what? Let's say we see each other and all is forgiven and we get back together. Then what? I am thinking about making the arrangement more explicit. Specifying the exact minimum number of times we must meet for sex. Otherwise, I feel like I'm going to waste both time and money. I do like her though. So, even though I know that I maybe should just cut bait and find another, I can honestly say that she will be very hard to replace. She has a great personality, she's caring, she's funny, she's sweet, she really likes me, and she has a smoking hot body.
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[QUOTE=NeilGeorge;2481959]Just wondering how you tell a woman that her pussy juice smells like rotten fish? Or that she has butt odor when you do her doggy? The last 3 girls from the internet have all had smells. I wanted to throw them in the shower, but I am a real nice guy and don't want to be rude.[/QUOTE]Dood, you should always make sure they shower just before doing the deed. But the butt odor may be unavoidable. When I'm doing doggy, I always like to spread their ass cheeks so that I can get a full view, but whenever I do that, a waft of poop odor emanates. Oh well.
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2482081]But then, I tried to appeal to her sense of logic. I told her that she needs money, I need sex, and we actually like each other. (And as an aside, we both knew that we were never going to get married anyway. I'm almost twice her age, and I found out that she has a kid. And, she's from some remote rural part of China. In addition, I'm an American and my Chinese is very, very poor, and she can barely count to 5 in English. So, we both know we were never going to get married anyway.) Anyway, I think I started making some sense to her. She hasn't deleted my WeChat yet, and she reads my texts to her, and she replies, mostly with an insult, but sometimes with a question. And finally, she agreed to meet me one more time. She said if she doesn't feel anything for me when we meet, then we are done. I said okay..[/QUOTE]She has really gotten to you. Can you just try to remember it is just for lust? You are letting her control your outcome "She said if she doesn't feel anything for me when we meet, then we are done". Is that fair on you, yourself. You are setting yourself up for a big fail.
This all does sound like fun but she is walking all over you. "even I send him finger pic, the idiot still wants me".
But we all know when they are so hot, the exact perfect fantasy girl for s, we cannot pass until we prove ourselves.
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Definitely Odd
[QUOTE=Midwestern;2482077]I had a huge Rolodex for work, and finally threw it away a few years ago. It was hard for me to do it, because I kinda got proud of all the contacts that I accumulated over the years, LOL.
Did Layla ghost you immediately after you gave her $1,000 to help with her car payments? Good that you have another gal on deck. Good luck!
As for my situation, it is a freaking roller coaster. I'm still in the middle of the ride, but I'll give you an update in another thread.[/QUOTE]No she didn't ghost me after the $1000. On the contrary we were super BFGF and she was so excited about getting her car. And we met up again and went two rounds. We even had some frank talk about why she doesn't like to DFK and at first she played it off as too personal but then admitted I was too agressive and it made her uncomfortable. So we let her lead at her pace and we had some magical moments. Really really nice. There was also this great part where we were in mish and she says "look at me while you cum" and so I just stared into eyes while cranking one out. Super nice.
But on time between rounds she talked about being two months behind on her rent. And we had this hanging between us for a couple days but I said it was too much too soon. She said no big deal but maybe she figured she couldn't hit me for even bigger money. I see now quite clearly that her $200 price was a lowball and then going to work her way up with "necessary" help outs.
In retrospect there are lots of parts of her story about where she lives and her former fiancée and her job that just don't add up. But it would have been easy to just ghost me. Instead we were figuring out our next meet up when the drama with family hit and she went quiet. So who knows. I am not sweating it. Was nice while it lasted. And now we move on as we always do.
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[QUOTE=Steve9696;2482148]But on time between rounds she talked about being two months behind on her rent. And we had this hanging between us for a couple days but I said it was too much too soon. She said no big deal but maybe she figured she couldn't hit me for even bigger money. I see now quite clearly that her $200 price was a lowball and then going to work her way up with "necessary" help outs.[/QUOTE]I am amazed at how many of the SBs have horrible debts and poor attitudes to money. Having a good body they get used to horny guys giving them easy money but eventually their body declines and us horny guys move onto the new younger ones.
Their problems can often not be solved with cash, if they are still incurring new debts and more bad fiance choices.
It's good to see that you can see the initial fee as being the 'entry' price.
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[QUOTE=NeilGeorge;2481959]Just wondering how you tell a woman that her pussy juice smells like rotten fish? Or that she has butt odor when you do her doggy? The last 3 girls from the internet have all had smells. I wanted to throw them in the shower, but I am a real nice guy and don't want to be rude.[/QUOTE]I actually do take a shower with the vast majority of my sugar babes. Definitely w / the ones I am meeting for the first time. First, it is actually quite erotic. I got lucky a few times and got to have sex in the shower, of course bareback because I don't step into the shower with a condom in hand. But blowjob was more easily obtainable and I have done DATY a few times in the shower and those are really enjoyable. But the true objective is of course to wash the odors off. The reality is that a large percent of civilian girls have bad odor. Some are truly terrible. So, I spend more than 10 minutes in the shower thoroughly scrubbing them. I kinda get around the obvious motive by saying that I find it sensuous and enjoyable (which it is) and it is my true fetish, and request her to indulge me. Since they know they will get paid, they are not in a mood to say no. Some may be taken aback by the amount of scrubbing, as I put a lot of soap on my fingers and plunge deep inside pussy and all over the asshole and ass cheeks (not inside the asshole however). The thing is that some of these girls have such bad hygiene that even after all that scrubbing, many still have a lingering odor. There was this one blonde, looked like an angel, 9 for face and 8/9 for body, lovely smile but the whole bed smelled like poop when doing doggy; OMG, I almost lost my boner due to her overwhelming stink. I had to quickly reverse and do a mish, the only position in which the odor was far away and manageable. One of my regulars who I kept meeting for several months also had a bad odor but not as terrible as that of the above mentioned blonde. With this regular, call her Sylvia, I would literally take 10 to 15 minutes in the shower which only made the odor somewhat manageable. I never once did DATY on her; such a pity as her hole was juicy, inviting and had the exact shape and lips size which were attractive for me. She however was a sweetheart and did not mind me going for 2 shots, and the second one always in her mouth and also began doing bareback after the first few meets, and that made up for the odor. Still see her once in a while.
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[QUOTE=Steve9696;2482148]No she didn't ghost me after the $1000. On the contrary we were super BFGF and she was so excited about getting her car. And we met up again and went two rounds. We even had some frank talk about why she doesn't like to DFK and at first she played it off as too personal but then admitted I was too agressive and it made her uncomfortable. So we let her lead at her pace and we had some magical moments. Really really nice. There was also this great part where we were in mish and she says "look at me while you cum" and so I just stared into eyes while cranking one out. Super nice.
But on time between rounds she talked about being two months behind on her rent. And we had this hanging between us for a couple days but I said it was too much too soon. She said no big deal but maybe she figured she couldn't hit me for even bigger money. I see now quite clearly that her $200 price was a lowball and then going to work her way up with "necessary" help outs.
In retrospect there are lots of parts of her story about where she lives and her former fiance and her job that just don't add up. But it would have been easy to just ghost me. Instead we were figuring out our next meet up when the drama with family hit and she went quiet. So who knows. I am not sweating it. Was nice while it lasted. And now we move on as we always do.[/QUOTE]Yeah, some SBs think the arrangement is more about occasional big ticket items. I had one SB in SF, she never asked for any money, she just wanted to be pampered. So, I thought great. Then, one day she asked me to buy her a cell phone. So, I did. Another month goes by, we keep seeing each other, then suddenly she asked me for $3000 to help her get through the next couple of months. At that point, I bailed. But if I did the math, I bet her pricing was on par if it had just been a PPM arrangement.
But that said, it seems like Layla was genuinely into you, and that something else is going on. But like you said, why sweat it, especially when you have your "rolodex. ".
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[QUOTE=BrizLad;2482338]I am amazed at how many of the SBs have horrible debts and poor attitudes to money. Having a good body they get used to horny guys giving them easy money but eventually their body declines and us horny guys move onto the new younger ones.
Their problems can often not be solved with cash, if they are still incurring new debts and more bad fiance choices.
It's good to see that you can see the initial fee as being the 'entry' price.[/QUOTE]On the one hand, I agree that it is truly amazing. I had an arrangement with one gal for 3 k per month. Every time I gave it to her, she would go clothes shopping. This was during a time when she was unemployed. I just couldn't believe it. But on the other hand, it is their poor money management skills that partially explains why they are on SA.
And yeah, as they age, horny guys move onto younger ones, but these gals just start dating older guys. A 20 year old won't date a 60 year old, but a 40 year old will. So, while we rotate into younger gals, they just rotate into older guys.
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When it Rains
Hahaha. So just as I am setting up Thursday with Jessica, who reappears but Layla? Yep she's back. So now who knows who I am seeing next!
Meanwhile I get a text from All time favorite Krystal that she's moved to NYC. About 5 hours drive.
Peaks and valleys baby. Feeling a peak!
PS I have to say it is deeply satisfying that Krystal and I are still connected. She’s moved twice. Changed phones. Broken a phone. And here she is. The goddess who when I apologized for taking so long to finish says “You can fuck me all night if u want!” And then sleeps over. OMG she’s the best. I simply must see her.
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[QUOTE=Steve9696;2482364]Hahaha. So just as I am setting up Thursday with Jessica, who reappears but Layla? Yep she's back. So now who knows who I am seeing next!
Meanwhile I get a text from All time favorite Krystal that she's moved to NYC. About 5 hours drive.
Peaks and valleys baby. Feeling a peak!
PS I have to say it is deeply satisfying that Krystal and I are still connected. Shes moved twice. Changed phones. Broken a phone. And here she is. The goddess who when I apologized for taking so long to finish says You can fuck me all night if u want! And then sleeps over. OMG shes the best. I simply must see her.[/QUOTE]Yes, those are the words we all want to hear. Most of the girls I have met in the states, stay 2-4 hours, one session, but in Mexico and Russia, much for likely for them to stay the night or multiple sessions. A couple of the girls I am meeting in MTY there is no issues, all night long or multiple sessions. When I negotiate with girls now I stay 2 sessions. I am debating to start back up on SA in Austin and San Antonio, but just not sure, I am sure it will be a big let down from Mexico. If I do I will insist on 2 sessions, or I will pass, save my money for MTY.
Great report as always, I just want to say I have learned a lot from you and others. Not sure about you guys CIA Stuff, but I do not need to hide my identity. I am careful, but not to the level you guys take it too, but never less very good information.
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2482359] but a 40 year old will. So, while we rotate into younger gals, they just rotate into older guys.[/QUOTE]That really is so true. Here in Brisbane, 20 year age gap is really the maximum that the public will toerlate. IE 60 year old walking around with pretty 40 year olds. When I'm in Philippines it seems that 60 -20 is acceptable. I really miss my trips to Asia.
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[QUOTE=BrizLad;2482407]That really is so true. Here in Brisbane, 20 year age gap is really the maximum that the public will toerlate. IE 60 year old walking around with pretty 40 year olds. When I'm in Philippines it seems that 60 -20 is acceptable. I really miss my trips to Asia.[/QUOTE]Yeah, Thailand is similar to the Philippines in this regard of course. I always thought I'd retire to Thailand and enjoy the 20 year-olds when I got to my 60's or 70's. It's still a possibility, but I am discovering that Chinese girls also do not discriminate against older men. If you ask a Chinese girl if she prefers a 35 year old rich guy or a 55 year old rich guy, she will say she's indifferent. You might think I am exaggerating, but it really is true.
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Update
We met today. She gave me a dirty look. I apologized. She then said get ready for a slap to the face, but she just tapped me gently. I again said sorry, and I gave her my best puppy dog eyes, and she said let's never talk about this again. Then, we proceeded to spend the next 3 hours together. Just walking around, holding hands, kissing, chatting, and finally lunch. It didn't feel awkward at all.
We didn't discuss any arrangement today, because I thought it was too soon to bring it up. My only damage today was the price of a meal and my time. But I had a great time. She makes me laugh. Plus, she's just really hot. When I saw her today, it seemed like every guy around was looking at her. Well, in her skin tight jeans and skin tight shirt, you'd have to be gay not to stare at her, LOL.
But now, I'm pretty horny, so I might have to spend the afternoon with a high end pro.
[QUOTE=Midwestern;2482081]The next day, she started her new job. Guess where? At a HJ MP. No lie. When she told me, it floored me. She then explained that she can make 3 x more money working at a HJ MP than at a regular minimum wage job. So, for two days, we had some back and forth. She was swearing that even though she'd be seeing men all day at her new job, that her heart really belonged to me and so I should trust her. Yeah right. So, I told her that we should just be friends.
Then suddenly, two days later, she quit her job. She said it was a disgusting job. No duh. Anyway, I went to see her, and when I saw her, my heart melted and we were all over each other. Later that night, she texted me that she's devoted to me and to our love, and to our future together. WTF?! I didn't know what to say. So, I just said, me too.
The next day, I decided that I needed to steer this ship into the right direction, and just have an arrangement, like what I always wanted. So, I came up with a two-part plan and acted on it.
Here's the first part.
I told her that I was already married and with a family. I knew this would cause a huge fucking firestorm, but I needed her to understand that I only wanted an arrangement. Anyway, sure enough, she was furious as hell, and I had to deal with her rage and wrath for two days. She eventually calmed down, and then she said she was going to delete my WeChat and that she was going to resume her job at the HJ MP. She said something like she now realizes that all men are disgusting, and so she might as well make a living off of it, and she also said something like those customers are disgusting, but I'm more disgusting because I'm a liar.
Here's the second part.
We now both know that we are both "bad" people. She is willing to give HJs for a living, and I am a married man but still mongers. We now know this about each other. (And hell, let's not forget that we had sex when we barely knew each other, in exchange for my paying her rent, so it's not like she was an angel ever. I'm even thinking that she might be a former pro, or at least a former HJ MP gal.) So, anyway, given that we now know that we are both "bad" people, I asked her to reconsider my initial proposal for an arrangement. She then sent me a picture of her middle finger, LOL.
But then, I tried to appeal to her sense of logic. I told her that she needs money, I need sex, and we actually like each other. (And as an aside, we both knew that we were never going to get married anyway. I'm almost twice her age, and I found out that she has a kid. And, she's from some remote rural part of China. In addition, I'm an American and my Chinese is very, very poor, and she can barely count to 5 in English. So, we both know we were never going to get married anyway.) Anyway, I think I started making some sense to her. She hasn't deleted my WeChat yet, and she reads my texts to her, and she replies, mostly with an insult, but sometimes with a question. And finally, she agreed to meet me one more time. She said if she doesn't feel anything for me when we meet, then we are done. I said okay.
So, that's where I am now. I am pondering what to do. Of course, I will meet her. But then what? Let's say we see each other and all is forgiven and we get back together. Then what? I am thinking about making the arrangement more explicit. Specifying the exact minimum number of times we must meet for sex. Otherwise, I feel like I'm going to waste both time and money. I do like her though. So, even though I know that I maybe should just cut bait and find another, I can honestly say that she will be very hard to replace. She has a great personality, she's caring, she's funny, she's sweet, she really likes me, and she has a smoking hot body.[/QUOTE]
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Enjoy the Moments
[QUOTE=Midwestern;2482439]We met today. She gave me a dirty look. I apologized. She then said get ready for a slap to the face, but she just tapped me gently. I again said sorry, and I gave her my best puppy dog eyes, and she said let's never talk about this again. Then, we proceeded to spend the next 3 hours together. Just walking around, holding hands, kissing, chatting, and finally lunch. It didn't feel awkward at all.
We didn't discuss any arrangement today, because I thought it was too soon to bring it up. My only damage today was the price of a meal and my time. But I had a great time. She makes me laugh. Plus, she's just really hot. When I saw her today, it seemed like every guy around was looking at her. Well, in her skin tight jeans and skin tight shirt, you'd have to be gay not to stare at her, LOL.
But now, I'm pretty horny, so I might have to spend the afternoon with a high end pro.[/QUOTE]Kudos MW. Treat her like a girlfriend and she'll act like a girlfriend. She needs this part of the relationship. And as you are seeing, non-bedroom time can be fun when you are with a girl who:
1. Genuinely likes you.
2. Is the hottest girl in the room.
My club time with Thifany and just kicking around London with this doll on my arm were truly highlights. You can get sex anywhere. You can't find affection anywhere - it's the most difficult to acquire - you cant just buy it outright. Enjoy it.
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[QUOTE=Steve9696;2482474]Kudos MW. Treat her like a girlfriend and she'll act like a girlfriend. She needs this part of the relationship. And as you are seeing, non-bedroom time can be fun when you are with a girl who:
1. Genuinely likes you.
2. Is the hottest girl in the room.
My club time with Thifany and just kicking around London with this doll on my arm were truly highlights. You can get sex anywhere. You can't find affection anywhere - it's the most difficult to acquire - you cant just buy it outright. Enjoy it.[/QUOTE]Yeah, I do like the affection a lot. It's very satisfying. I might fall in love with her. It's not lust. She's just so warm and loving. She kept feeding me at lunch today, like we're a real couple.
FYI, I texted the receptionist today, and she still hasn't found a new job yet, and so I'll probably bareback her tomorrow. I'm probably the only guy that's she's ever prostituted herself to. On a certain level, she hates both me and herself.
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[QUOTE=Steve9696;2482474] You can get sex anywhere. You can't find affection anywhere - it's the most difficult to acquire - you cant just buy it outright. Enjoy it.[/QUOTE]But isn't it fake affection that will end as soon as the money stops. The right words should be," You can get sex anywhere. You can't find an act of fake affection (like a movie) anywhere". Gold Digger is a real word.
Its important not to delude ourselves. Women are experienced at this fake affection stuff. That's how many of them find husbands to take care of them.
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2482083]Dood, you should always make sure they shower just before doing the deed. But the butt odor may be unavoidable. When I'm doing doggy, I always like to spread their ass cheeks so that I can get a full view, but whenever I do that, a waft of poop odor emanates. Oh well.[/QUOTE]Steve9696, as a regular on the Brazil boards you must share my Brazil experience. Those Brazilian girls are so used to giving up anal that they have their asses washed out thoroughly before a sexual encounter. LOL.
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[QUOTE=SonicBoom1;2482488]But isn't it fake affection that will end as soon as the money stops. The right words should be," You can get sex anywhere. You can't find an act of fake affection (like a movie) anywhere".
Its important not to delude ourselves.[/QUOTE]With American women, the minute you stop paying, the pussy stops. Here in Mexico, I was with a Mexican woman two nights ago. We went it all night long, and she didn't ask for a dime. That was the one in the black bathing suit.
Last night, I was with the one in the bikini. She had not been good about texting or calling, and I kind of laid down the law with her. Do you want a pay per meet deal I asked or a novia / GF / SB type relationship? She wanted the latter. I paid her very little last night, but she was not expecting it. She is a Vennie and she really wants me to send money to her parents more than anything. She has modeled all over the world, and she was in a 7 year relationship she just got out of. You would think she was whoring around but when I mentioned her having a boyfriend, and that I did not care if she did, she went off on me. She told me that she was not like that. Hell, I have told both of them I am seeing other people, and they are both cool with it.
Thing is Sonic, you are like I was. You have a john mindset. Women do not like to think of themselves as working girls and get paid for it. When I go abroad, I offer nothing and see how it goes. If they bring up money, then I will offer a price. Honestly, I think the women like a man of means who can help them if they need it more than wanting to give them a wage.
Two of my Colombian chicas hit me up last week. One wanted an air fryer, and she promised, "I will cook you very good healthy things with it. ", and I sent her $50. The other told me that not being able to go to the gym was making her fat, and she depressingly showed me a small roll. She wanted a treadmill, found a good deal, and I gave her $200 for that. Is that paying for it? Maybe, but I am going to get some good food and a hotter chick because of it. The last few times I saw both of them, I did not end the date with cash.
How often will the pussy dry up when you start paying? In the USA, it is a done deal, you will be cut off, but try not paying abroad and see what happens, you might be surprised.
I get guys asking me all the time, "How much for her? And I always, "how about you start by not offering anything and see how it goes?" I do not like to feel like I am paying for it, and it may surprise you but the women do not either.
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1 photos
Shoot, I forgot the best part
The pics. Shoot, it is not letting me load Chica#2.
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Don't delude yourself
[QUOTE=SonicBoom1;2482488]But isn't it fake affection that will end as soon as the money stops. The right words should be," You can get sex anywhere. You can't find an act of fake affection (like a movie) anywhere". Gold Digger is a real word.
Its important not to delude ourselves. Women are experienced at this fake affection stuff. That's how many of them find husbands to take care of them.[/QUOTE]In my many years in this hobby my moto has always been: "If you fall in love on your trips, your falling in love by yourself. " Having met probably hundreds of women over my career, I will tell you, this has been very difficult to stick to more than once. Fell in love with a Carioca years ago, drop dead natural beauty resembled Jessica Alba, we went to Buzios for a few days and asked her to move in with me and she said yes. Lucky for me she saw a Garota leaving my apartment a few days later and as most of you know what a pissed off Brasilera is like. Romance over! The other was in Costa Rica from Perez Zeladon, again I was in love by myself. Finally I met a Beautiful Colombiana. A casacita, non drinker, no makeup, no fume, totally natural, brilliant student in the Nat'l University been together for over 3 years now. But here's the difference, she has never been a prepago, I think an important distinction if you looking for love. How you meet a woman has an enormous impact on the future of the relationship. Good luck, and guard your heart brothers.
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[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2482506]. Hell, I have told both of them I am seeing other people, and they are both cool with it.[/QUOTE]In my experience, they are cool with it because they too are seeing other people. They just prefer not to tell you.
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[QUOTE=SonicBoom1;2482488]But isn't it fake affection that will end as soon as the money stops. The right words should be," You can get sex anywhere. You can't find an act of fake affection (like a movie) anywhere". Gold Digger is a real word.
Its important not to delude ourselves. Women are experienced at this fake affection stuff. That's how many of them find husbands to take care of them.[/QUOTE]For me, the way scarier thing would be if she said I didn't have to pay her. Then I'm totally screwed because I definitely do not want a real relationship. So, I don't mind if she's giving me the affection for money. It's why I am seeking an arrangement, after all. We can go to Match for a relationship, and we can go to other websites for pros. SA and arrangements are something in-between.
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[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2482506] Hell, I have told both of them I am seeing other people, and they are both cool with it.[/QUOTE]Exactly. This is why I told my new GF that I'm married with a family. There was a firestorm initially, but if she's not going to be cool with it, then I needed to bail now. This is also why I prefer being with semi-pros, pros, arrangements, and MP gals. Because they are also seeing other people, and so we all know the score going into this game. I was seeing a married chick last year who had no desire of breaking up her family, and that was great. For a while, I was telling girls that I was divorced, but that could go either way, and now I believe it's best to let them know that any relationship we have may not be exclusive.
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[QUOTE=BrizLad;2482625]In my experience, they are cool with it because they too are seeing other people. They just prefer not to tell you.[/QUOTE]Once you favorite people on Seeking, you can see when they log in. So yeah, there are some who swear their loyalty to me and are on the site the next day, but there are others, in fact, I would say most who say they are only seeing me, who have given up the site. Honestly, I usually do not bring up he loyalty thing, the women do. Sure, they could get another profile if they are smart, but honestly most do not know how I track them. Even if they try to hide their logins, I can still see when they log on.
It is amusing to look at their social media accounts and see what is going on. I have a female friend who has shown me a ton of tricks with social media. It is like a law for the under 30 types to post their whole lives online. I have to be careful that the women do not post photos of us.
I usually do not even have to ask for women's Instagram accounts, the women throw them at me but forget they have given me access. I saw one with a video on it with a heart shaped frame of a guy with her and him kissing her. I asked the woman about this, and she denied this guy was her boyfriend. When I told my female friend about this, she looked at it like a challenge, checked out who was liking her IG photos, and she picked up her boyfriend in no time. She proudly said, "I am the queen bee of social media stalking."
For most women, I really do not care. If they are totally into me when we are together that is all I can ask for. I try to keep those as pay per meet hookerish types. In fact, it is actually kind of fun needling the ones that you know are playing around with others about how loyal they are to you.
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Real? Who Cares
[QUOTE=SonicBoom1;2482488]But isn't it fake affection that will end as soon as the money stops. The right words should be," You can get sex anywhere. You can't find an act of fake affection (like a movie) anywhere". Gold Digger is a real word.
Its important not to delude ourselves. Women are experienced at this fake affection stuff. That's how many of them find husbands to take care of them.[/QUOTE]Honestly I believe the affection is real with some girls. But frankly I don't care. Just so long as I never know! Of course Brasileiras have a distinct advantage here where they have the unique ability to be in the moment and totally committed.
I do feel like Thifany and I had real affection. I mean we would kiss for 5 or more minutes And she would never break the liplock first. Not once. Ever. She didn't have to do that. And then she got engaged three months later. Brasileiras!
And a few other girls Ive felt strong affection with — not just in the bedroom. But as long as I don't know the truth I don't care.
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[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2482686]Once you favorite people on Seeking, you can see when they log in. So yeah, there are some who swear their loyalty to me and are on the site the next day, but there are others, in fact, I would say most who say they are only seeing me, who have given up the site. Honestly, I usually do not bring up he loyalty thing, the women do. Sure, they could get another profile if they are smart, but honestly most do not know how I track them. Even if they try to hide their logins, I can still see when they log on.
It is amusing to look at their social media accounts and see what is going on. I have a female friend who has shown me a ton of tricks with social media. It is like a law for the under 30 types to post their whole lives online. I have to be careful that the women do not post photos of us.
I usually do not even have to ask for women's Instagram accounts, the women throw them at me but forget they have given me access. I saw one with a video on it with a heart shaped frame of a guy with her and him kissing her. I asked the woman about this, and she denied this guy was her boyfriend. When I told my female friend about this, she looked at it like a challenge, checked out who was liking her IG photos, and she picked up her boyfriend in no time. She proudly said, "I am the queen bee of social media stalking."
For most women, I really do not care. If they are totally into me when we are together that is all I can ask for. I try to keep those as pay per meet hookerish types. In fact, it is actually kind of fun needling the ones that you know are playing around with others about how loyal they are to you.[/QUOTE]For the most part I do not care either, there are rare occasions. Some try to make me jealous, but those days are pretty much gone, having too much fun. I do not look at there social media, better to not know anything, then I can play dumb.
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[QUOTE=Steve9696;2482879]Honestly I believe the affection is real with some girls. But frankly I don't care. Just so long as I never know! Of course Brasileiras have a distinct advantage here where they have the unique ability to be in the moment and totally committed..[/QUOTE]As you say, Brasileiras can be totally in the moment. Brazilian women are addictive that way. And yes, they can turn it off as fast as that and be on to the next guy. They are however almost always "with you" when you are together. I think Brasileiras have a strong sense of romance.
I'm not sure if you have said that you don't bother with SA when you are in Brazil. It's almost unnecessary. While not every Brazilian escort is going to hang out with you, there are plenty of them that like having a good time and chilling outside the bedroom.
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Brazil and SA
[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2483074]As you say, Brasileiras can be totally in the moment. Brazilian women are addictive that way. And yes, they can turn it off as fast as that and be on to the next guy. They are however almost always "with you" when you are together. I think Brasileiras have a strong sense of romance.
I'm not sure if you have said that you don't bother with SA when you are in Brazil. It's almost unnecessary. While not every Brazilian escort is going to hang out with you, there are plenty of them that like having a good time and chilling outside the bedroom.[/QUOTE]Exactly. Brazil is some place I would never do SA. The Boates are simply too awesome. And you get romance right there in the club. Karina and I chattted and danced and kissed for two hours before getting a room. And she invited me to the beach next day. Andressa and Josy both spent an hour or more with me before taking it to the room. Thifany was a five hour affair with two rounds. Carolina I guarantee was super sad when I had to leave at 1 Am our second time together. She clearly wanted me to stay for another round and overnight.
Brasileiras are just unique and wonderful.
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[QUOTE=Steve9696;2482879]I mean we would kiss for 5 or more minutes And she would never break the liplock first. Not once. Ever. She didn't have to do that. And then she got engaged three months later. Brasileiras!
And a few other girls Ive felt strong affection with not just in the bedroom. But as long as I don't know the truth I don't care.[/QUOTE]Yep, as long as they are loyal to me when we are together, I am good.
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[QUOTE=LatinaLover#1;2482514]In my many years in this hobby my moto has always been: "If you fall in love on your trips, your falling in love by yourself. " Having met probably hundreds of women over my career, I will tell you, this has been very difficult to stick to more than once. Fell in love with a Carioca years ago, drop dead natural beauty resembled Jessica Alba, we went to Buzios for a few days and asked her to move in with me and she said yes. Lucky for me she saw a Garota leaving my apartment a few days later and as most of you know what a pissed off Brasilera is like. Romance over! The other was in Costa Rica from Perez Zeladon, again I was in love by myself. Finally I met a Beautiful Colombiana. A casacita, non drinker, no makeup, no fume, totally natural, brilliant student in the Nat'l University been together for over 3 years now. But here's the difference, she has never been a prepago, I think an important distinction if you looking for love. How you meet a woman has an enormous impact on the future of the relationship. Good luck, and guard your heart brothers.[/QUOTE]Good post.
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Strategy
Do you guys use different profiles for your at home town SBs and your on trip SBs?
I feel that my story would be different for each profile and using the same profile would signal my activities to the others.
Also, does anyone research the other SD profiles in your area or have an idea of what particular words attract SBs?
Planning on trashing my old profile and starting a new one.
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Profile strategies
Here are my humble suggestions, which are based on my experience and based on what SBs have told or revealed to me:
(1) Set your age at around mid-40's. Many SBs have told me that young SDs are assholes. And of course, many of them think SDs over 50 are a bit too old, since they want to find someone who can keep up with them in and out of the bedroom.
(2) Add an inch or two to your height if you're short. Every short guy lies about their height, so if you're short, then you might as well lie about yours too.
(3) Consider using a high number for your net worth. I tinkered with this quite a bit, and I found that using a high net worth attracted more girls, obviously, but to my surprise these girls asked me less about giving them money. I think some girls don't seek the richer guys just to get more money, but they just want to be with richer guys. It doesn't mean you have to show up in a phat ride. Most girls understand that many rich guys don't show off their wealth.
(4) For my profile description, one of the things that I wrote was that I was looking for an occasional travel partner. This got a lot of girls' attentions. Seems that a lot of girls want to take a vacation every once in a while.
(5) For keywords in my profile, I found that "easy going" and "smart" got many SBs' attentions.
Good luck.
[QUOTE=BrizLad;2483195]Do you guys use different profiles for your at home town SBs and your on trip SBs?
I feel that my story would be different for each profile and using the same profile would signal my activities to the others.
Also, does anyone research the other SD profiles in your area or have an idea of what particular words attract SBs?
Planning on trashing my old profile and starting a new one.[/QUOTE]
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2483456]Here are my humble suggestions, which are based on my experience and based on what SBs have told or revealed to me:
Good luck.[/QUOTE]Thanks for the tips. I'm sure lots of guys embellish their wealth and their height.
I'll set something up later this month.
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Advantage of Monthly Allowance
First — great tips MW. Agree with all. As far as the OP I just added a Covid Update at the bottom on my profile that says I after a local girl right now. Seems to be working fine.
So if you recall Layla appeared to Ghost me about halfway thru our $1000 arrangement month. But then came back. As luck would have it we were able to see each other a lot over a couple days. As in fuck at night. Fuck in the morning (different visit). Then next day at night and then in the morning. So really four visits in total like back to back. It's nice not to be pulling out the wallet every time.
She is asked if we are moving to Monthly and I Said sure. Because I do like not dealing with it. Maybe I come in low one month and high another. I am OK with that and like the casualness of it. This is my first arrangement other than PPM and it has its pluses.
I know of course when it ends I will probably be eating all or a portion of that month but that's Ok. Actually going to suggest a bi-monthly $500 instead which will keep things more in check.
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[QUOTE=Steve9696;2483642]First great tips MW. Agree with all. As far as the OP I just added a Covid Update at the bottom on my profile that says I after a local girl right now. Seems to be working fine.
So if you recall Layla appeared to Ghost me about halfway thru our $1000 arrangement month. But then came back. As luck would have it we were able to see each other a lot over a couple days. As in fuck at night. Fuck in the morning (different visit). Then next day at night and then in the morning. So really four visits in total like back to back. It's nice not to be pulling out the wallet every time.
She is asked if we are moving to Monthly and I Said sure. Because I do like not dealing with it. Maybe I come in low one month and high another. I am OK with that and like the casualness of it. This is my first arrangement other than PPM and it has its pluses.
I know of course when it ends I will probably be eating all or a portion of that month but that's Ok. Actually going to suggest a bi-monthly $500 instead which will keep things more in check.[/QUOTE]I have tried monthly a couple times, but it normally ends fairly quickly. My expectations go up. Work, vacations, friends and other issues usually get in the way. I would pay weekly, to prevent being scammed, but it never seems to work out. You would think it would be easier, but not the cases, plus the incentive for the girl to behave and be on time, kind of goes out the window. Just my opinion.
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[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2483643]I have tried monthly a couple times, but it normally ends fairly quickly. My expectations go up. Work, vacations, friends and other issues usually get in the way. I would pay weekly, to prevent being scammed, but it never seems to work out. You would think it would be easier, but not the cases, plus the incentive for the girl to behave and be on time, kind of goes out the window. Just my opinion.[/QUOTE]I did set up a weekly $500 automated payment to the SBs account. That was fine but over time she lost the connection between performing in bed and the reason for being paid.
As Steve 9696 said when it ends you basically get ripped off the final payment.
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Monthly allowance
[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2483643]I have tried monthly a couple times, but it normally ends fairly quickly. My expectations go up. Work, vacations, friends and other issues usually get in the way. I would pay weekly, to prevent being scammed, but it never seems to work out. You would think it would be easier, but not the cases, plus the incentive for the girl to behave and be on time, kind of goes out the window. Just my opinion.[/QUOTE]I had a few monthly allowance arrangements. For two of them, we kept doing the math in our heads all the time. I was trying to see her enough times so that the amount was below $500 per meet, and she was trying to see me as little as possible so that she was making more than $500 per meet. Needless to say, both arrangements ended quickly. However, one monthly allowance arrangement worked really well for me, but that was only because she was crazy about me, and even gave me a key to her apartment. She wanted me to see her every day. So, from my limited experience with monthly allowance arrangements, I would only go into one if she seemed like she was crazy about me.
I am about to start a new monthly allowance arrangement ($1,200 per month), because she seems to be genuinely into me. For example, she keeps complaining that we don't spend enough time together. But we are currently doing too much date stuff and not spending enough time between the sheets. Eventually, if I don't average at least 3 lays per month for the first 3 months, then I will bail. Like Steven said, I will probably have to eat that last month's allowance.
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2483742]I had a few monthly allowance arrangements. For two of them, we kept doing the math in our heads all the time. I was trying to see her enough times so that the amount was below $500 per meet, and she was trying to see me as little as possible so that she was making more than $500 per meet. Needless to say, both arrangements ended quickly. However, one monthly allowance arrangement worked really well for me, but that was only because she was crazy about me, and even gave me a key to her apartment. She wanted me to see her every day. So, from my limited experience with monthly allowance arrangements, I would only go into one if she seemed like she was crazy about me.
Sounds like my last monthly arrangement. She wanted more and give less. She was crazy. She later called me back, but I finally blocked her, long story, but it was time to move on...
I am about to start a new monthly allowance arrangement ($1,200 per month), because she seems to be genuinely into me. For example, she keeps complaining that we don't spend enough time together. But we are currently doing too much date stuff and not spending enough time between the sheets. Eventually, if I don't average at least 3 lays per month for the first 3 months, then I will bail. Like Steven said, I will probably have to eat that last month's allowance.[/QUOTE]I would only do a monthly arrangement were we met twice a week, if I was going to invest the time and money. Again sounds easy, but something always comes up.
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[QUOTE=BrizLad;2483716]I did set up a weekly $500 automated payment to the SBs account. That was fine but over time she lost the connection between performing in bed and the reason for being paid.
As Steve 9696 said when it ends you basically get ripped off the final payment.[/QUOTE]I can relate. Be careful with automatic payments, your taxes need to be perfect. Just in case you get you ever get audit, it is major red flag. I am self employed and have been audited, just be careful with PayPal and automatic payments, it can be a major issue. I am more worried about this then my privacy. The IRS has a license to lie.
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[QUOTE=BrizLad;2483716]I did set up a weekly $500 automated payment to the SBs account. That was fine but over time she lost the connection between performing in bed and the reason for being paid.
As Steve 9696 said when it ends you basically get ripped off the final payment.[/QUOTE]
I also like Steve's analogy about SB transactions:
"Remember the cow and meat analogy. No one wants to pay a guy to kill a cow in front of him. I want to buy the steak a long distance away from the killing. Keep the sex and the money as distant as possible."
In the case of this young woman, the sex and money have gotten way too far apart. You'll have to remind her that you are not a vegetarian.
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Curious about the East
Mongers,
COVID has f'd my normal travel plans and has left me with quite of bit of excess cash. I've been considering hitting Asia for about a week (Singapore specifically) when travel becomes a thing again.
For those of you that have experience in Asia, a few questions:
Where would you recommend to go?
Is Singapore worth a visit?
Use SA or not?
Where would you avoid?
I know I can read the Singapore thread and I will, but I want to know more about the GFE side of life, not just the AMP or bar girls, etc.
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Country of Origin?
[QUOTE=LshRoomer;2483959]Mongers,
COVID has f'd my normal travel plans and has left me with quite of bit of excess cash. I've been considering hitting Asia for about a week (Singapore specifically) when travel becomes a thing again.
For those of you that have experience in Asia, a few questions:
Where would you recommend to go?
Is Singapore worth a visit?
Use SA or not?
Where would you avoid?
I know I can read the Singapore thread and I will, but I want to know more about the GFE side of life, not just the AMP or bar girls, etc.[/QUOTE]Do I recall you are in Central Europe? Because if you are from the US you are fucked. No country is foolish enough to let us in!
If you can get into Asia, Singapore is NOT recommended. Even without Covid it's a pretty tight scene.
In Asia I'the probably go to Japan right now as safest. Great options there. China has shut down P4 P. Boo. Thailand is always good but a bit too Wild West right now for my taste.
If you can go in Europe Switzerland and Austria are both open and FKK. And of course my Ro Girls in London are getting fucked right and left without me. So I'the head there if you can.
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[QUOTE=Steve9696;2483993]In Asia I'the probably go to Japan right now as safest. Great options there. China has shut down P4 P. Boo. Thailand is always good but a bit too Wild West right now for my taste.[/QUOTE]What makes Thailand the Wild West in your opinion? Granted the scene is a neon sexual Disneyland. There are ways to put yourself out there and meet willing Thai female partners away from the bright lights and meat market atmospheres. I do find Thai women do be some of the most sexual women in Asia. I'll have number 33 please. ;)
As far as COVID, the Thai people did a diligent job of controlling it. They have had only 58 deaths. I have not kept up on whether they were currently shutting down the go-go bars and massage parlors in Bangkok and Pattaya. One thing is for sure some of these countries have taken advantage of the rapid development in testing. You might be able to play in Thailand if you take a test on arrival.
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Thailand Could Be OK
[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2484010]What makes Thailand the Wild West in your opinion? Granted the scene is a neon sexual Disneyland. There are ways to put yourself out there and meet willing Thai female partners away from the bright lights and meat market atmospheres. I do find Thai women do be some of the most sexual women in Asia. I'll have number 33 please. ;)
As far as COVID, the Thai people did a diligent job of controlling it. They have had only 58 deaths. I have not kept up on whether they were currently shutting down the go-go bars and massage parlors in Bangkok and Pattaya. One thing is for sure some of these countries have taken advantage of the rapid development in testing. You might be able to play in Thailand if you take a test on arrival.[/QUOTE]Yeah sorry I have no issue with the glitz and glam and sex on display. Thailand is uniquely raunchy and it has its appeal. I've just noticed it's kinda wide open without any social distancing. Gogos still rocking but with less patrons. Was assuming this was unwise but as you say maybe it's under control.
Guys should judge for themselves. Bangkok thread is quite active.
P.S. Here's the funniest thing about Thailand. Prostitution is illegal. But it's sooooo not illegal in practice. When I checked into the hotel they give you a little card that says says "If you bring a girl back to your room overnight, she is not entitled to the free breakfast. " Hahaha I laughed so hard. Yeah. Illegal. Right. LOL.
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[QUOTE=LshRoomer;2483959]Mongers,
Is Singapore worth a visit?
Use SA or not?
[/QUOTE]Singapore used to be great for mongering, but not anymore. But they still have a good takeout scene (e. G. , Ipanema and Brix). But the prices are crazy. The Singapore forum even has a SA subforum, and it looks like the PPM rate is also ridiculously high. Keep in mind that SG is an island, and so everything is expensive. A mug of beer in a bar is over $20. But hotels look the other way when you bring someone in, and there's also a lot of short-time hotels too, which are surprisingly cheap, but this means you have to have your passport with you while mongering. Prostitution is legal in SG, but the girls and the locations have to checked and registered with the authorities, so most pros in SG work illegally. My buddy in SG says the scene is pretty dry. Most of the Chinese girls are still in China. Most of the Vietnamese girls are still in Vietnam. You get the idea.
[QUOTE=Steve9696;2484014]Yeah sorry I have no issue with the glitz and glam and sex on display. Thailand is uniquely raunchy and it has its appeal. I've just noticed it's kinda wide open without any social distancing. Gogos still rocking but with less patrons. Was assuming this was unwise but as you say maybe it's under control.
Guys should judge for themselves. Bangkok thread is quite active.
P.S. Here's the funniest thing about Thailand. Prostitution is illegal. But it's sooooo not illegal in practice. When I checked into the hotel they give you a little card that says says "If you bring a girl back to your room overnight, she is not entitled to the free breakfast. " Hahaha I laughed so hard. Yeah. Illegal. Right. LOL.[/QUOTE]LOL, I have a similar story. One time, my flight got into Bangkok so late, that I decided to stay at the airport hotel that night. About 30 minutes after I check into my room, there's a knock on the door. It's a super hot pro, asking me if I'd like to be serviced. I was so surprised, that for some reason, all I could say was, "uhhhhhh,. No. ".
Anyway, Bangkok and Pattaya should be on every monger's to-do list.
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2484026]Singapore used to be great for mongering, but not anymore. But they still have a good takeout scene (e. G. , Ipanema and Brix). But the prices are crazy. The Singapore forum even has a SA subforum, and it looks like the PPM rate is also ridiculously high. Keep in mind that SG is an island, and so everything is expensive.
Anyway, Bangkok and Pattaya should be on every monger's to-do list.[/QUOTE]I was not mongering when I did my Asia adventure. Thing is that I heard all about these Thai women, and I doubt that I could not get it up for them because they all looked like they were 15 tome. LOL.
I was on a cruise and an old British businessman was at my table telling me as the young lad about the ways of the world. We went from Singapore to Malaysia to Indonesia, and he mentioned that as the resources got more rich, the countries got poorer. He also said to notice that the fewer Chinese there were, the less the wealth was. This was back when China was still a poor country.
Jakarta, Indonesia was such a shithole, and the traffic was awful, but the women were plentiful and beautiful. I remember going to the mall and having six women wait on me and half of them were hot. When I went to Bali, I saw these women doing their version of the Hula with their hips swaying to and fro. Shit were they hot.
Thing about Singapore with all its rules though was how fucking fun it was. They had that whole island as an amusement park, the night safari, the incredible bird show, and most incredible aquarium I had ever seen. I remember children running around free in the street like I did in my childhood and it is something sadly you do not see much in the USA any more.
I think Indonesia may be the best place to monger for me then, but I am not sure I would want to live there. MW, any thoughts on Indonesia?
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[QUOTE=Steve9696;2484014]Yeah sorry I have no issue with the glitz and glam and sex on display. Thailand is uniquely raunchy and it has its appeal. I've just noticed it's kinda wide open without any social distancing. Gogos still rocking but with less patrons. Was assuming this was unwise but as you say maybe it's under control.
Guys should judge for themselves. Bangkok thread is quite active.
P.S. Here's the funniest thing about Thailand. Prostitution is illegal. But it's sooooo not illegal in practice. When I checked into the hotel they give you a little card that says says "If you bring a girl back to your room overnight, she is not entitled to the free breakfast. " Hahaha I laughed so hard. Yeah. Illegal. Right. LOL.[/QUOTE]Thanks for all the info. It has helped out.
I'm stuck in the US unfortunately. But I would love to taste some central european juices these days LOL.
I'm looking to travel hopefully next year and I was thinking to try something new. I've been to Europe countless times and as I write this I think of some of the chicks that I want to see when I can get there again. Haven't had the FKK experience yet, or the asian experience. I've been to Japan, but wasn't mongering then. So I was considering where to go once Americans can easily cross borders again.
It sounds like there is a consensus to avoid Singapore, consider Indonesia, and try Thailand. . I'll have to consider whether to try Thailand or do FKK and a few SA girls in Baltics (that already sounds fun) . Hell, Brazil sounds like it has some potential as well.
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[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2484047] MW, any thoughts on Indonesia?[/QUOTE]I've been to Jakarta, Bali, and Batam. And I never liked it that much. I guess Indo gals are not my type. I just don't like their physical appearance. Same with Filipinos. I actually am not a huge fan of Thai girls either, but I only recommended Bangkok and Pattaya just for the experience, which is fucking crazy. I can't even begin to explain it.
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[QUOTE=LshRoomer;2484076]
It sounds like there is a consensus to avoid Singapore, consider Indonesia, and try Thailand. . I'll have to consider whether to try Thailand[/QUOTE]I personally prefer Thailand. I think it is worth a visit for the experience alone. The accommodation like hotel and food are better and plenty. More varieties, I can go to MPs during day time, soapies in the evening, clubs and freelancer spots during night time.
Jakarta is pretty good and accessible because it has some large clubs / brothels that you can easily get girls. SA I think will work pretty well here. It is the least expensive too. Vietnam is also good but you probably will be lost without a guide and the prices in some popular places are increasing rapidly.
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The Choices!
[QUOTE=LshRoomer;2484076]Thanks for all the info. It has helped out.
I'm stuck in the US unfortunately. But I would love to taste some central european juices these days LOL.
I'm looking to travel hopefully next year and I was thinking to try something new. I've been to Europe countless times and as I write this I think of some of the chicks that I want to see when I can get there again. Haven't had the FKK experience yet, or the asian experience. I've been to Japan, but wasn't mongering then. So I was considering where to go once Americans can easily cross borders again.
It sounds like there is a consensus to avoid Singapore, consider Indonesia, and try Thailand. . I'll have to consider whether to try Thailand or do FKK and a few SA girls in Baltics (that already sounds fun) . Hell, Brazil sounds like it has some potential as well.[/QUOTE]I know we all vary but if you had the choice I would do Brazil, FKK, London, and Thailand in that order. (I know London was not on your list but wow the Romanian incall there! I know this is the SA forum but if I get a moment I'll post my intros to Brazil, FKK, and Thailand as they may be useful to this travel starved group for future planning.
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[QUOTE=Steve9696;2484168]I know we all vary but if you had the choice I would do Brazil, FKK, London, and Thailand in that order. (I know London was not on your list but wow the Romanian incall there! I know this is the SA forum but if I get a moment I'll post my intros to Brazil, FKK, and Thailand as they may be useful to this travel starved group for future planning.[/QUOTE]All I would say is the four destinations are so very different. I think it's best for a newbies to decide what they want out of a trip then decide. I personally would put Brazil at the top of my list so long as I spent a few days on the beach in Rio. This along with ample time in Sao Paulo.
I absolutely love London the city, but there are also other great cities for escorts. It only takes a few good escorts to have a good time. I don't have any experience with FKK, but this would probably be more a sexual destination for me as I prefer other vacation spots. I also hear a lot of disappointment in the typical FKK girl service level.
Thailand is just fucking crazy as a sexual theme park. While the girls are definitely not as sexual Brazileiras, they have a certain sweetness and openness. If you tire of submissive girls you just have to do a little more searching and screening in Thailand..
As far as one member saying he didn't care for Thai girls, I find Thai girls are a good mix of the dark-complected Southeast Asian look and the lighter Chinese/Vietnamese appearance. I think they are a bit taller than average for Asia. So with that you will find all sorts of builds. Some Thai girls have long legs. Some are curvier. Of course, we are talking about the Asian standard. I'm a bit biased because I have been with some great Thai working girls who were both sex partners and tour guides.
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I just caught up on the Pattaya thread. Apparently, Thailand currently has a 14 day quarantine. I suspect they have hotels monitoring guests.
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The Legendary FKK
Since the FKK is probably the least understood of the venues and every man should have it on his bucket list here is an intro to FKK.
So what is this crazy FKK I speak of?
Imagine if you will a very large building -- perhaps a warehouse -- that has been lavishly outfitted inside with a men's paradise. Buffet, sauna, jacuzzi, massage, pool, bar, relaxation areas and attractive ladies galore. And oh, yeah, the ladies are naked. Did I mention they all want to fuck you? Use the onsite rooms for your carnal pleasures; then rinse and repeat -- as many times as you have stamina and money for!
The drill is pretty much the same at each FKK and as you will see it is designed as the perfect place to start your journey to a better life. You know on TV where the guy gets caught with perfume or a hair or lipstick on his collar? That is never going to happen here because the Germans have engineered the perfect experience -- with virtually guaranteed no trace evidence left behind. Here's how it goes (I'll use Sharks, my favorite, to describe it):
When you enter the FKK, you pay your entry fee ($90-100 USD at nice ones) which entitles you to the full use of the facility and its amenities (sauna, buffet, lounges, non-alcohoic drinks) -- alcoholic drinks, massages, and girls' services are extra. You are issued a towel, robe, flip flops, and a wristband with key and they point you to the locker room. Here you get out of your street clothes, take a shower and suit up in a towel or robe and head into the club. Bring your wallet and condoms with you, as you will put these in a separate small locker when you enter. Prepare to be amazed!
Sharks is huge and there are girls everywhere. There is a big central bar where you can get your favorite cocktail or beer and start figuring out who tickles your fancy. If it's your first time here, you will be overwhelmed with selection. Blondes, brunettes, big fake tits, A cups, short, tall, skinny, thick. It's all here -- and they are all pretty in their own way. Just settle in and enjoy the spectacle. Generally you will have a few thoughts in this order:
1 This is fucking amazing!
2 Surely this can't be legal.
3 This must be what heaven is like if god knew what the fuck he is doing.
You will probably be approached by one or more girls who want you to go to the room with you. Almost 100% of the time you should NOT go with these girls. They tend to be the ones needing business or planning to shark you for big money. You are better off seeking out the girl you want if you are a newbie.
The general drill is to make the most of your entry fee and spend as much time as humanly possible. Find a girl, negotiate the fee / services (generally 50-100 E / half hour) and head to the room. Do your thing. Now, comes the hardest part -- relax and recharge. You can try to find a quiet corner, but invariably you will be assaulted by various girls wanting you to go. Hold out. Go to the buffet, sauna, get a massage. Recharge. Go again. Rinse and repeat until you can go no more! It is also possible to leave the club and come back the same day -- just make sure to tell them you are returning.
Now bear in mind that FKK can be widely varying in the awesomeness of the facility and / or girls. So what I describe primarily relates to the biggest and best in and around Frankfurt. Everywhere else may be a shade (or more!) less awesome in the food or the facilities or the girls; but the idea is generally the same.
Every man needs to experience FKK.
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[QUOTE=Steve9696;2484228]Since the FKK is probably the least understood of the venues and every man should have it on his bucket list here is an intro to FKK.
So what is this crazy FKK I speak of?
Imagine if you will a very large building -- perhaps a warehouse -- that has been lavishly outfitted inside with a men's paradise. Buffet, sauna, jacuzzi, massage, pool, bar, relaxation areas and attractive ladies galore. And oh, yeah, the ladies are naked. Did I mention they all want to fuck you? Use the onsite rooms for your carnal pleasures; then rinse and repeat -- as many times as you have stamina and money for!
The drill is pretty much the same at each FKK and as you will see it is designed as the perfect place to start your journey to a better life. You know on TV where the guy gets caught with perfume or a hair or lipstick on his collar? That is never going to happen here because the Germans have engineered the perfect experience -- with virtually guaranteed no trace evidence left behind. Here's how it goes (I'll use Sharks, my favorite, to describe it):
When you enter the FKK, you pay your entry fee ($90-100 USD at nice ones) which entitles you to the full use of the facility and its amenities (sauna, buffet, lounges, non-alcohoic drinks) -- alcoholic drinks, massages, and girls' services are extra. You are issued a towel, robe, flip flops, and a wristband with key and they point you to the locker room. Here you get out of your street clothes, take a shower and suit up in a towel or robe and head into the club. Bring your wallet and condoms with you, as you will put these in a separate small locker when you enter. Prepare to be amazed!.[/QUOTE]I could not agree more. So much fun, it can kind of be a little overwhelming.
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[QUOTE=LshRoomer;2484076]It sounds like there is a consensus to avoid Singapore, consider Indonesia, and try Thailand. . I'll have to consider whether to try Thailand or do FKK and a few SA girls in Baltics (that already sounds fun) . Hell, Brazil sounds like it has some potential as well.[/QUOTE]Do yourself a favour and forget planning those trips. Even if you can go it simply won't be the fun that we have all had in the past. Realistically for the next 2 years we need to find a way to enjoy the delights in our home countries. That's why sugarbabes are looking like such a good option.
I know here in my country the significant job losses have occurred and government benefits start getting reduced at the end of this month.
It won't be cheap in our home countries but it will be the best we can get for now.
My first international trip when I can will be pussy paradise. Philippines.
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[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2484236]I could not agree more. So much fun, it can kind of be a little overwhelming.[/QUOTE]Dammit Steve9696 and DramaFree11, What you guys describe makes me want to get on a plane ASAP for FKK, schnitzel, and beer!!
I've tasted the german scene but only really dipped my toe in (escorts / SA). I haven't really tried the other stuff, as I'm usually outcall focused. You are recommending the same that I have heard from others, that an FKK should be experienced at least once. I'm never been to Frankfurt, but I'm comfortable in Germany and I think that may be on my short next trip list, especially because it's closer and more familiar than Asia.
I've been to showpark in Prague a number to times, but it doesn't sound like to compares to an FKK experience. The description is definitely welcome during these days of limited or no travel.
Last non SA / GFE related question I promise. Now that you have FKK experience, what would do differently if you could relive your first FKK experience?
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Amazing intro to FKK!
[QUOTE=Steve9696;2484228]Since the FKK is probably the least understood of the venues and every man should have it on his bucket list here is an intro to FKK.
[/QUOTE]Steve, thanks so much for doing this. Every time I come to ISG, I notice that the FKK threads and the India threads are at the top of the list. I checked out the India threads, and it's mostly just posters begging for contacts. I checked out the FKK threads, and I kept thinking to myself that this scene looked amazing, but I could really use a beginner's guide. And, lo and behold, you just provided one. Because of you, I have now started a monger bucket list for myself, and there is currently only one thing on it, which is to partake in the FKK experience.
Hope you won't mind a few questions:
(1) Can I assume that everyone can speak English, including the management, staff, and the girls?
(2) Are there girls from all nationalities, including Americans, Asians, and Africans, or are there only Germans and other Europeans? What's the general breakdown?
(3) I've read in the FKK forums about some guys having the no-pop many-girls strategy. That is, they don't ejaculate so they can sex as many girls as possible. Some guys talk about sexing a dozen girls per visit. This sounds like something that I'd like to do. I don't care about the pop. I just like fucking. Is this a good strategy, or is there a downside to this approach that I am not seeing, besides the money of course?
(4) What are their hours? Is there a best time of day to go? I don't like staying out late anymore, especially when I'm in a new environment.
(5) Is it like a crazy bar scene, with loud live music, dancing, and tons of people, where it's almost impossible to have a convo with someone because it's so loud, and where it's almost impossible to get a drink because it's so crowded and the bartenders and waitresses are so busy, and where it's so dark that you cannot get a good accurate look at the girls? I am not into that scene anymore, which is why I no longer do takeout from monger bars.
(6) Would it be weird if I go there alone, or is that what most guys do?
(7) You mentioned bringing condoms. Man, I always forget to carry condoms, because I am so used to girls having them. Can I buy condoms at the club?
Thanks in advance, man.
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More FKK Deets
[QUOTE=Midwestern;2484343]Steve, thanks so much for doing this. Every time I come to ISG, I notice that the FKK threads and the India threads are at the top of the list. I checked out the India threads, and it's mostly just posters begging for contacts. I checked out the FKK threads, and I kept thinking to myself that this scene looked amazing, but I could really use a beginner's guide. And, lo and behold, you just provided one. Because of you, I have now started a monger bucket list for myself, and there is currently only one thing on it, which is to partake in the FKK experience.
Hope you won't mind a few questions:
Thanks in advance, man.[/QUOTE]Your most willing tour guide at your service!
(1) Can I assume that everyone can speak English, including the management, staff, and the girls?
Yes very good English. Everyone.
(2) Are there girls from all nationalities, including Americans, Asians, and Africans, or are there only Germans and other Europeans? What's the general breakdown?
The FKKs are 90% staffed with Romanian girls. Don't be put off by this. Romania has all types. Blonde brunette tiny thick. It's all there. Occasional African or Brazilian or German but nothing to write home about. The Romanian girls are fine. They may tell you they are Italian or Spanish. But they are not. Many girls speak Spanish because they broadcast South American Telenovas in Romania.
(3) I've read in the FKK forums about some guys having the no-pop many-girls strategy. That is, they don't ejaculate so they can sex as many girls as possible. Some guys talk about sexing a dozen girls per visit. This sounds like something that I'd like to do. I don't care about the pop. I just like fucking. Is this a good strategy, or is there a downside to this approach that I am not seeing, besides the money of course?
Guess it depends on the guy. I personally never want to session without cumming. But if that's your thing so be it. All girls of course prefer a guy to cum quickly so they can go to the next guest. You might develop a bad rap as a guy that maxes his time with fucking nonstop. But probably not if you visit just a few times.
(4) What are their hours? Is there a best time of day to go? I don't like staying out late anymore, especially when I'm in a new environment.
Evening is better imo. From 8 on is fine. Don't have to be a night owl. Be forewarned that food is not 24/7. I skipped lunch one time and went at 3:30 and they had closed the buffet till six.
(5) Is it like a crazy bar scene, with loud live music, dancing, and tons of people, where it's almost impossible to have a convo with someone because it's so loud, and where it's almost impossible to get a drink because it's so crowded and the bartenders and waitresses are so busy, and where it's so dark that you cannot get a good accurate look at the girls? I am not into that scene anymore, which is why I no longer do takeout from monger bars.
Definitely not like that. Much more relaxed and laid back than a night club. Lighting at Sharks is good. I remember Oase and World being darker. And Sharks is huge. You will never feel crowded.
(6) Would it be weird if I go there alone, or is that what most guys do?
Most guys go alone.
(7) You mentioned bringing condoms. Man, I always forget to carry condoms, because I am so used to girls having them. Can I buy condoms at the club?
Girls provide condoms so no problem. I just hate regular condoms. Hey maybe that is why you fuck for forever. Once I tried the super thins like Trojan BareSkin no way I am using a regular condom. It's night and day.
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Thailand
[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2484010]What makes Thailand the Wild West in your opinion? Granted the scene is a neon sexual Disneyland. There are ways to put yourself out there and meet willing Thai female partners away from the bright lights and meat market atmospheres. I do find Thai women do be some of the most sexual women in Asia. I'll have number 33 please. ;)
As far as COVID, the Thai people did a diligent job of controlling it. They have had only 58 deaths. I have not kept up on whether they were currently shutting down the go-go bars and massage parlors in Bangkok and Pattaya. One thing is for sure some of these countries have taken advantage of the rapid development in testing. You might be able to play in Thailand if you take a test on arrival.[/QUOTE]Thailand extinguished the virus with the draconian measures of nightly curfews and no alcohol sales for a couple months. But it worked! And now to enter their country you would need to do a 14 day quarantine upon arrival at a designated hotel at your own expense. I had a one month January reservation which the airbnb host agreed to cancel with 100% refund due to the difficult entry requirement.
Regarding the OP's question yeah Singapore sucks for our hobby. I went for a week and stayed for two nights. Beautiful airport though!
If the OP really wants Asia Cambodia is open. Phnom Penh is cheap enough but one of the hardest places to find a diamond in the rough. I'd advise to wait for Asia until Thailand is open again post covid.
Brazil is open I believe and Colombia is opening by the end of September probably the best choices available right now imo except for the more costly Austria & Switzerland already mentioned - if you are allowed to enter which us Amercans are not.
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Isn't this thread WAY OT?
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[QUOTE=Steve9696;2484347]Your most willing tour guide at your service!.[/QUOTE]Thanks so much for the awesome insights!
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[QUOTE=BlueSwede;2484382]Isn't this thread WAY OT?[/QUOTE]I have found that girls from Asian countries that we associate with lower priced pussy tend to ramp up their prices when they on [URL]seeking.com[/URL]. Trying to get back on topic, has anyone had success with Asian SB pussy when travelling in Asia?
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Yes and No
[QUOTE=BlueSwede;2484382]Isn't this thread WAY OT?[/QUOTE]Yes technically this thread is about SA. But like all threads ISG is really about sharing information and learning. So I see no harm in digressing from time to time with information the thread readers as a whole find useful. Since this thread has been quiet recently on SA topics no harm in the diversion.
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[QUOTE=Steve9696;2484510]So I see no harm in digressing from time to time with information the thread readers as a whole find useful. Since this thread has been quiet recently on SA topics no harm in the diversion.[/QUOTE]Let me just start something else up seeing as how we have diverged into mongers versus sugar daddies. Steve, you said that you did not want to do SA in Brazil because the club scene was so awesome.
You reminded me of the two reasons I wanted to be a SB. First off, the sex internationally was so much better than with escorts in the sex prison and cheaper abroad to boot. I thought it was because of cultural attitudes, but I was surprised that even in South America, where I thought being a ho was not frowned on as much, was not something women were okay with. It was just more tolerated because women needed the money.
What bugged me so much in the sex prison was the $1200 dinner date. I have no shortage of hot female sales people who were willing to hang out with me and pick up the tab so female company was not a thing of value with me. I would just be having a good time with a working girl. We would be done having sex, she was hungry and so was I, and yet there was this stupid four figure fee for eating dinner. I was like, "What idiots are paying for this?" With the SB SD relationship, we could just enjoy the meal without the woman feeling ripped off.
For the sex prison, the SA SB-SD relationship just made more sense to me. I started about ten years ago when the USA economy was way down, met some smoking hot women, and the sex with said women was as hot as I got abroad though I paid more. Sadly, SA in the sex prison now seems to be filled to the gills with scammers and the quality response rate is quite low. I did have a promising nibble here the other day though.
I talked to a lawyer about the SB-SD relationship, and he said that given how out in the open it was that he doubted there would be any prosecution of SDs. Even with the FOSTA and SESTA bullshit to fight "human trafficking", which really just resulted in a bunch of johns being jailed and financially shook down to line LE pockets, the SB-SD relationship and SA have been largely left alone by LE.
As great as the working girl sexual relationships were in the Latin countries I visited, the quality of women I have met through SA abroad has been amazing. They are truly women in the top 1%. I had a Latin beauty kind of convince me that getting engaged was a good thing. At the time, I thought I had scored. She was stunning, in great shape, and super smart. Thing is she was very selfish, and when she was caught lying, she broke up with me before I broke up with her. It took my ego down a notch. Still, I was able to follow her on social media and I saw the clusterfuck her life was with me not in it.
It was tough finding similar quality at first but since Covid hit, it has been raining 10's. The commonly held belief is that women want men their own age, want men who are attractive physically, and they only like us older men only for our money. However, the young women with me had orgasms that I could smell and see the white cum. They called and texted me without asking for money and got mad at me when I didn't text or call often enough. The engagement has given me an excuse to not commit to any of the women I have met. If they ask if I am seeing other people, I tell them I will not answer because I do not know what they are doing. I do not give away my monogamy. The only time I tell the women I am willing to pledge it is when I can watch a girl every day.
My ex swore she did not see anyone else, and I do not think she did, but wanted to show the world she was with a handsome model versus me on her social media page. She thought putting up my picture would incite negative comments and she said that she was upset enough people were calling her a gold digger.
Thing is people were calling her that because she had soured on me. I remember a cab driver saying to me after she kissed me goodbye, "You have a very pretty girlfriend. " I was like why would the guy think that versus her being a working girl, and I realized it was how she looked at me. This revelation was greatly empowering to me because I realized that my giving her money was not what caused people to think she was a gold digger. It was her shitty attitude towards me at the end of our relationship.
The working girl or gold digger shaming is huge for women, and I turned the lemons into lemonades and have used it to my advantage. After my breakup, I was seeing a Vennie 10 super model in Mexico and was getting fed up with her lack of response to my texts. I asked her if she just wanted to be pay for play or my GF / SB / Novia, and she recoiled at the thought of being a P4P hooker. I told her she was shitty with responding to my texts and calls, and she apologized and has done way better since then.
I lectured the Mexican lawyer who is a 10 about showing up on time. I told her, "You keep making plans and breaking them. I need a woman I can trust. Is that you? And she showed up on time from then on. The last time I asked her if she needed money, she refused taking it and asked, "Need money for what?
I now have two women in Mexico, six women in Colombia, and one in Brazil that are SBs or SB prospects. They send me texts all the time. My understanding in Spanish is that Te quiero which technically means I want you. It is the English equivalent of I really like you. Te amo is I love you. Of these nine, five have texted me te quiero and four have texted me Te amo. I have responded likewise if I felt that there were sincere, and I have not if I thought the proclamations were financial manipulation.
I have met six of the nine women in person. I have had sex with three without payment after the deed. For the guys saying they are just with me for money, I would ask what money?
But more importantly, if these women give off the impression that they are gold diggers to the world, I am calling them out on it. GFs pack my suitcase, give me massages, make things like clothing for me, buy me gifts, and show the world how much they care about me, and I now expect these things from these women.
The easiest thing in the world to spot is a woman in love with a man versus with him for his money. If anyone told me that these women were just after my money, I would ask them to tell that to the woman's face and see how she reacts. She better respond about how I walk on water, and that is as much if not more to protect her image as mine.
So now if any guy says to me that a woman is just after me for money, I will tell them: prove to me she is and she is gone. I have no need for working girls. I think American men have been wussified. Shit, women in the People's Republic of California can say regretting sex the next day is now rape.
But most importantly, I am now honest with myself. My ex wife shamed me so much that I was paying women just to get my ego up. I will never forget my ex getting offended at what I laughed at in a comedy. She even shamed me for how I breathed. When I told her to get a job so she had something to do besides bugging me, she threatened to kill herself. Trump gave great advice after his first wife shamed him. When asked what to do with a wife shaming her husband, he said "Dump them."
I see women even ugly women in America on SA wanting platonic relationships. Men are supposed to work for their money. Women are supposed to be given it as victims. That is the great female game. Shame us and make us feel badly and then we pay to have said women to have the shame removed. Fuck that!!
I never thought I could demand as much from SB / GF types as I have. Ironically, it was seeing my ex-wife and fiance's lives going down the tubes without me and that great female weapon of shame turned against women that has allowed me to do so.
Nothing is a bigger turn off for me then having great sex with a woman and her running for the door when we are done. Thankfully for me, those days are in the past.
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Elvis 2008,
I don't know where you get this:
"Even with the FOSTA and SESTA bullshit to fight "human trafficking", which really just resulted in a bunch of johns being jailed and financially shook down to line LE pockets. ".
There have been few, if any, "jailings" of Johns in the USA, and none at all under Fosta / Sesta.
The standard state / local law enforcement technique in the USA Was to do fake ads on Backpage and arrest guys for solicitation based on explicit texts. Certainly there are arrests for picking up street decoys and a few citations for going to massage parlors that are unlicensed and where sex is found to occur during sting operations, but that is rare.
Law enforcement has never had success in attacking escorts who screen, or their customers. It is a purchase of time and companionship, which is legal. Sugar arrangements are even safer legally than that.
Fosta / Sesta is a federal law. The federal government has a very specific policy that it does not charge Johns or sex workers criminally if all parties are 18 or over. The federal government criminally pursues owners / operators when it comes to sex work. And the federal government does huge asset seizures of any entity involved in interstate sex work. But thst is far different than jailing Johns.
Many of your criticisms of the USA Are accurate, and there are plenty of reasons for a USA Guy to go overseas for sex, but your parts about law enforcement are misleading. The issues relate more to pricing than law enforcement concerns. Poorer women outside the USA Are simply more likely to exchange quality sex for a lower price, and they have more incentive to be attractive and sexual.
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[QUOTE=Mongerer88;2484583]Elvis 2008,
I don't know where you get this:
"Even with the FOSTA and SESTA bullshit to fight "human trafficking", which really just resulted in a bunch of johns being jailed and financially shook down to line LE pockets. ".
There have been few, if any, "jailings" of Johns in the USA, and none at all under Fosta / Sesta.
The standard state / local law enforcement technique in the USA Was to do fake ads on Backpage and arrest guys for solicitation based on explicit texts. Certainly there are arrests for picking up street decoys and a few citations for going to massage parlors that are unlicensed and where sex is found to occur during sting operations, but that is rare.l.[/QUOTE]Personally speaking, I see a lot of exaggerations in this thread on occasion. First of all, any type of generalizations scare me and doubt the authenticity or the objectivity of the writer. "SBs are scammers", "SBs are wonderful", "Place X is super awesome, location why is horrible" and other such sentences are quite a bit off putting. The nature of [URL]seeking.com[/URL] is pretty clear. Any man and woman can register. The site checks nor verifies no info, unless one does it voluntarily. A person claiming to be a girl on that site may not be even a girl, because the site does not verify your gender. Guys have to pay $80 to $90 a month to message a girl, and it verifies your credit card is accurate but that's about it. When such a site has millions of members, what else can we expect? All it does is provide a meeting place. Anyone with some sense can figure out quickly that one has to do a lot of due diligence, that there would be scammers but also some genuine articles and with hard work comes a few good rewards. I do not see a need for any exaggerated claims, such as US is bad, country X is good, etc. Obviously, being an American and a US resident, I have done most of my sugardaddying in my city and in this country but I do travel abroad and I hit up girls abroad before I head over (because I can, the site provides contacts, why not use them?) and sometimes I get lucky abroad even in the few days I am visiting a foreign city for business. But I would not say foreign cities are easy gold mines. Even over there, if I hit up dozens of girls I get lucky with a few. One thing - [URL]seeking.com[/URL] has far more popular in the US than in European cities. I can search within 50 miles of my home and SA pulls up hundreds of white girls in the <25 age group, even in the slender body category. In foreign cities, that list is a few dozen at best. I have verified this by doing such search in dozens of foreign cities (if for no reason than just to ogle girls' photos).
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[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2484541]I now have two women in Mexico, six women in Colombia, and one in Brazil that are SBs or SB prospects. They send me texts all the time. My understanding in Spanish is that Te quiero which technically means I want you. It is the English equivalent of I really like you. Te amo is I love you. Of these nine, five have texted me te quiero and four have texted me Te amo. I have responded likewise if I felt that there were sincere, and I have not if I thought the proclamations were financial manipulation..[/QUOTE]Thanks for the detailed post Elvis. In the past I have operated multiple media accounts while I have been testing some of my supposed committed SBs.
I would meet them through a traditional method on a dating site then as things got interesting and I was thinking of committing more $$ to them one of my alternate profiles would also make contact with them. It was always interesting in the mornings when they came online and each profile would in turn get from her a "Good morning" then an "I miss you".
I've been in bed as "Me1" waiting for a girl while she is in MY lounge room chatting to "Me2" lining up her date for the following day. Geez I had fun the following day knowing that she needed to be at the mall at 11 am. I had a lazy breakfast, delayed leaving for work then about 10:45 decided I would stay home and take her out for lunch. What did I learn? I learned the language that she uses when she had alternate plans.
I kept with her but at least I knew she was playing around and I did not fool myself. Two years later when it came time to end the SB relationship with her I wasn't too worried as I knew she could quickly replace me I she hadn't already.
I love your method of exposing the SB to the situation where she has to defend her relationship with you. I will have to bring that about with my next SB.
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Thanks Elvis and Diva
Thanks Elvis for the mega write up. Lots of truth in there. And there is more to it than the money with the girls I know. As I said before, an affectionate relationship first and the gifts fall naturally and without effort from that.
Slightly OT again but it's such fun if you need a diversion go to the Diva Escorts website and browse girls. Prostitution is legal in the UK and Diva has one of the best sites for window shopping. It even lists each girls services. Does she CIM? COF? It's all there. The photos are photoshopped but honestly the Good girls are the same or better in person. Been with ten (ish) of these girls and can tell you they are 100% real and you fuck in their bed. It's great fun just to shop and fantasize about a future trip.
PS we need a Midwestern update on his girl! Dude! ??
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My experience is similar
[QUOTE=BrizLad;2484466]I have found that girls from Asian countries that we associate with lower priced pussy tend to ramp up their prices when they on [URL]seeking.com[/URL]. Trying to get back on topic, has anyone had success with Asian SB pussy when travelling in Asia?[/QUOTE]Singapore has always been high dollar but the SA gals there have a severe case of GPS for sure. Hong Kong is the same way with many of the gals, although I have had some 3-6 month SB's that were fun and reasonable. Only had one SA date in Thailand, but at it seems they really want to make sure you are in it for the long term before sex. It is still better than USA, which is the worst of all. I have a few more Asia countries to try. Looking forward to the journey.
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Elvis, thanks for the mega post. A lot of what you say makes sense. In fact, the current gal that I am seeking an arrangement with said to me, "There's more to my life than men and money. In fact, men and money are a small part of my life. " To be honest, it was a bit of a revelation to me.
Someone asked about SAs in Asia. I'm in Shanghai, and I looked at the SA site several times, and each time, after spending about 30 minutes looking at the profiles, I felt exhausted. But in Shanghai, there are millions of migrant workers (people that come here from second tier Chinese cities to work). Many are single women or married women who are trying to support their kid back home. About 10 years ago, there was a senior poster in the Beijing forum who kept saying that these migrant workers were ideal targets for arrangements, PPMs, freebies, etc. I usually ignored his posts. One time, I even told him to stop posting useless info. But I now realize that he was TOTALLY right. So, since last year, I've been "seeking arrangements" with migrant workers. My friend in Singapore did the same for many years, with the Filipino maids that work in Singapore. You might ask how it's been going for me so far. And my reply is that it's been an adventure, I'm enjoying it, I'm getting laid this way, and so I'm still doing it.
Steve. A small update. There isn't much to report. I've been busy with work, and her Aunt Flo visited on Monday. We met for lunch once, which was a fucking drag, but I'm trying to boyfriend her, as you know. We also met up at the movie room again. You might recall that a movie room is like a KTV room, but instead of singing, you just rent the room to watch movies. Inside the room, there is a huge bed, and a huge screen TV. Hundreds, maybe thousands, of movies are available. The room rent is $8 per hour. We just put on a movie, and then we fool around. But we've never fucked in those rooms. It's probably not a good idea to do so. We're planning to spend the day together on Monday. Last night, she told me she shaved her pussy, for our date on Monday. She even sent me pictures and also a video of herself playing with her pussy. So, Monday looks promising. I haven't fucked her since almost 3 weeks ago. As far as "our arrangement," neither one of us has brought it up again, after we had that huge fight when I told her that I was married. My plan is to go ahead with the arrangement, but IF and ONLY IF we fuck a few times during the next few weeks. If we do, then one day I will suddenly surprise her with some money, and say it's my way of helping her out. Otherwise, I'm cutting bait. BTW, the receptionist is ignoring my texts. Oh well. I fucked her 4 times, which is not bad, but I wish she was still in the picture.
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Intro to SA and Tips
So since more folks are joining this thread and much of the good primer information is way back in Jan / Feb I thought I'the write a little intro to Seeking. Hope you enjoy and it helps others on their journey. Please note that this is for guys that enjoy the whole romance and simulated girlfriend thing. If you just want to find a girl to fuck there are plenty of those also.
Seeking Arrangement opened a whole new world for me -- Sugar Baby. Sugar Daddy dating. I had gotten a taste of this with Thifany (the girl from the São Paulo Boate that I flew to London for a week). I mean SBSD is really what we were doing when I flew her to London. I paid her a very reasonable allowance for the week and we just played boyfriend and girlfriend. What fun.
I came to realize through the Thifany experience that I like more than just paid sex. And in fact I love having a girlfriend. I enjoy texting each other. I enjoy that someone cares about me (even if she's pretending -- just never tell me so!) and of course I love the complete experience of dinners and dancing and just acting like real lovers. Not transactional sex partners. And SB / SD is all about this same experience. When done properly.
So how do you do it properly? I suppose this could vary widely depending on what you are after. But I am after a girl who FEELS like a girlfriend. She's affectionate, appreciates an evening above her usual stature in life, and is able to actually enjoy herself with you. She views the allowance / gift (I. E. Money!) as a bonus. Not the only thing she is after. Any girl where I feel money is the primary motivation and she will go with anyone for a high enough price, gets kicked straight to the curb. She's got to be a girlfriend first, and benefit second.
Knowing that this is the kind of girl I want to attract (and other guys I have talked to also find this persona the most attractive) there is a set of rules you have to play by. Understand that SA is NOT AT ALL like picking up hookers. It is much more like meeting a girl into a bar and seducing her to leave with you. It's just an online bar. Sure you need money, but you also need some distance game and you need to treat her with respect. If you do, you have a chance of closing the deal. However, the moment you disrespect her, she will be gone.
Most importantly, never discuss sex or money. These things will be implied and they will be done offline. Never discuss sex or money on SA and really never discuss sex at all. As soon as you are that explicit, the kind of girl you are after will feel disrespected and ghost you in no time flat.
So start with some light chat and flirt. Your opener should be something specific to her that you read in her profile -- not something generic. And ALWAYS end every message with a question. This prompts her to respond. If you don't ask a question, she will not take the initiative -- the conversation will just die. You have to drive it -- and you drive with questions. Get her to tell you a few things about herself -- what she likes to eat, her favorite wine, dog or cat person -- It doesn't really matter-- just something that will get her to engage a bit.
At some point you will establish that you like each other reasonably enough and one or the other will suggest to take the conversation off of SA and over to text. If she goes there in the first few exchanges, she is probably a hooker. If she doesn't ask for a pic pretty early on, she is probably a hooker. Often, I am the one to suggest going over to private phone text. You can keep it pretty innocuous, saying you notice she is not on often and it might be easier to connect up by text.
Once over to text, you can discuss allowance / gifts (never "her price" or "how much you charge") though some guys leave that for in person dates. Because I am a fly-in guy and want to close the deal -- I. E. Go to the room and have sex -- the very first night, I prefer to get this elephant out of the room before the date if possible. But again, you can't go straight here. Start first with how you see the date going.
I usually say something about going out and having an epic time and if the chemistry is right spending some private time (or intimate time or adult time -- insert your favorite euphemism -- but never say SEX! And ask if that sounds about right to them. Most often they will be down with this description -- I mean we are all on SA for a reason. This opens the door for the pricing discussion. I usually say something like "Of course I'the want to give you a gift. Did you have something in mind?" and the negotiation is underway. As of this writing, with A LOT of searching and false starts I'the say most big cities $400 is reasonable for a pretty girl (lots will ask more) with SF and NYC more like $500. $300 is more like it for second tier cities, and I've found a few gems at $200 (though more in the 6-7 category).
Once you have the "we are going to have sex, right" -- without saying it -- and money discussion out of the way, you should be good to go. Just keep on with the flirty texts without being too frequent, clingy or annoying and then meet up at the appointed day and time. More often than not, if you are not terribly objectionable looking, have a little bit of charm, and follow the "let's get out of here" model you might use with a regular pickup, you will end up in the room with your girl and have a rocking time.
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[QUOTE=Mongerer88;2484583] Certainly there are arrests for picking up street decoys and a few citations for going to massage parlors that are unlicensed and where sex is found to occur during sting operations, but that is rare.
Law enforcement has never had success in attacking escorts who screen, or their customers. It is a purchase of time and companionship, which is legal. Sugar arrangements are even safer legally than that.
[/QUOTE]Mongerer,
Whenever I talk about this subject, I run into denial on the part of men. For some reason, men who engage in prostitution think of themselves as law abiding citizens instead of the criminals they really are. In fact, you probably wince at me just using that word.
For law enforcement (LE), there was not a lot of success prosecuting people for a victimless crime. Until there was active promotion of a campaign against human trafficking. Now all of sudden there were victims, and men were the perpetrators.
Most white people, and I am white, are happy thinking the police / law enforcement are there to protect them, when they arrest someone there is good cause, when the police do use violence, they are justified. Again, there is the thinking the police like me and would never shoot me because I am a law abiding citizen, and I get it. People are happy believing that, and they attack anyone who bursts their bubble. If that is the case, quit reading right here.
So when I show you this story about how a DEA agent just took someone's life savings, $16,000, do you defend LE and the government? And think this agent probably had a good reason? Maybe you think there was something more to this story. [URL]https://www.abqjournal.com/580107/dea-agents-seize-16000-from-aspiring-music-video-producer.html[/URL].
What was more to the story was that it was just the tip of the iceberg. "A Washington Post investigation last year found that local, state and federal agents nationwide have seized $2. 5 billion in cash from almost 62,000 people since 2001 – without warrants or indictments. It's unknown how many got their money back. ".
The typical monger cheers on the crackdown on human trafficking. I don't. I see LE looking at all the cash in prostitution like a kid looking at candy through a glass window trying to figure out how they can get that cash, and human trafficking was the rock used to break the window.
I saw how the government operated. First, there are the brochures about human trafficking, then more brochures, then the tragic media reports of those trafficked, then the elevation of more and more media stories about trafficking, and finally we are at crisis level where "something has to be done".
Guys who had sugar babies were like we are helping women out, we would never be busted for trafficking. I tried to tell them trafficking was just the excuse. LE wanted your money and was going to shake you down using it as an excuse.
I ran into a lot of resistance. Then Robert Kraft got arrested: [URL]https://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/palm-beach/fl-ne-robert-kraft-prostitution-case-appeal-fight-20191227-h7aepphb2jfzvl52qpmn5a2ibu-story.html[/URL].
"But now lawyers for the state are arguing for the first time that Kraft — charged with two misdemeanor counts of soliciting prostitution — actually committed a felony.
The latest court filing from the Attorney General's Office suggests Kraft could face a third-degree felony punishable by up to five years in prison, if the state wins its appeal of a lower court order favoring the billionaire."
LE arrested Kraft for getting a hand job and wanted to put him in jail for 5 years.
And what do you think the DAs droned about as a reason to put Kraft in jail? Supporting trafficking. Kraft was not the only one arrested, and no one was charged with trafficking, but LE wanted to stop trafficking even when in cases like this there was none.
When you are paying women cash for sex, do you think of yourself as a criminal? Do you automatically go in thinking what happened to Kraft could not happen to you?
You see with me I know when I pay for sex I am a criminal, but I do all I can to blur the lines. I know what happened to Kraft could happen to me, and I do all that I can and learn all I can so I am not a charged criminal. I get the denial but I think that is a question of putting happiness over safety. Still, people attack those who threaten their happiness, and I do not want to be attacked any more. Been there, done that.
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No, you make unwarranted jumps in your logic and conclusions.
And you don't study actual arrests.
I think asset forfeiture and seizure is terrible. I mentioned it in my post. It is applied against those with cash earned from a supposedly illegal activity. It affects sex workers and what few remaining agencies exist. It doesn't effect Johns unless that John picks up a streetwalker in his car in certain jurisdictions. So don't pick up streetwalkers. Asset forfeiture doesn't effect the bank accounts of Johns. There isn't illegal cash there.
Kraft went to a massage parlor with several ladies working there at once. The massage parlor was under internal surveillance. Granted that was a relatively new and abusive law enforcement technique and I hope like hell that the courts continue to kick law enforcement's ass over it. But it was a commercial facility operating under a business license and the warrant was granted for surveillance as a result of supposed illegal activity occurring there that involved multiple women. Different activity than what its business license allowed That is tremendously different from the granting of a surveillance warrant for a residential location where only one lady is present at a time. Tremendously different. A commercial license in a business district is simply treated differently.
The gold standard for John safety from a law enforcement perspective is outcall to a hotel room or his residence with an escort who has her own website and who has reviews. The gold standard for escort safety from law enforcement is incall to an apartment zoned for residential purposes after the customer has been screened. They are both safe from law enforcement activities.
Sugar arrangements are even safer, but what I described above is already safe. Damn expensive and a hassle, but safe.
No-screening Backpage type encounters, massage parlors, strip joints (including the parking lot of strip joints) and certainly the streets are not safe in the USA.
But you can't take citations and arrests from one activity and extrapolate it to other activities.
And for what it is worth, I think the police go overboard on a regular basis in many areas. But that doesn't keep me from studying and thinking, and I don't take nonsense from bad 8 pm TV crime dramas and assume the police techniques shown there actually happen.
[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2484827]Mongerer,
Whenever I talk about this subject, I run into denial on the part of men. For some reason, men who engage in prostitution think of themselves as law abiding citizens instead of the criminals they really are. In fact, you probably wince at me just using that word.
For law enforcement (LE), there was not a lot of success prosecuting people for a victimless crime. Until there was active promotion of a campaign against human trafficking. Now all of sudden there were victims, and men were the perpetrators.
Most white people, and I am white, are happy thinking the police / law enforcement are there to protect them, when they arrest someone there is good cause, when the police do use violence, they are justified. Again, there is the thinking the police like me and would never shoot me because I am a law abiding citizen, and I get it. People are happy believing that, and they attack anyone who bursts their bubble. If that is the case, quit reading right here.
So when I show you this story about how a DEA agent just took someone's life savings, $16,000, do you defend LE and the government? And think this agent probably had a good reason? Maybe you think there was something more to this story. [URL]https://www.abqjournal.com/580107/dea-agents-seize-16000-from-aspiring-music-video-producer.html[/URL].[/QUOTE]
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Steve, all of your advice and suggestions are SPOT on!
Elvis, I agree with a lot of what you said. I know many MP gals in the states, and none of them were trafficked. When they get arrested, they say they're were forced into the business because they don't want to admit they voluntarily entered this line of work. But I'm not saying that trafficking doesn't happen, of course. But I have a question for you. What's the main takeaway that we should take from your recent posts? Are you suggesting that we can get arrested for SB / SD relationships? Sorry that I'm dense.
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2484905]Steve, all of your advice and suggestions are SPOT on!
Elvis, I agree with a lot of what you said. I know many MP gals in the states, and none of them were trafficked. When they get arrested, they say they're were forced into the business because they don't want to admit they voluntarily entered this line of work. But I'm not saying that trafficking doesn't happen, of course. But I have a question for you. What's the main takeaway that we should take from your recent posts? Are you suggesting that we can get arrested for SB / SD relationships? Sorry that I'm dense.[/QUOTE]The women work in MPs with tourist visas usually are rotated from city to city arranged by an organization. Although they are not forced. The law enforcement is going to find a way to apply or interpret the law in a way that considers the arrangement as sex trafficking.
If a group is determined to stop something but can't change the existing law, they are going to do it by creating another law to achieve it indirectly. The example being selling sex is legal, but buying is illegal, and the case of backpage. You can also bet there is a group plotting to create another law to get the user private data collected by the big high tech companies because they can't do it like the way China does it.
The country is great that is as long as you don't get involved with the law in some way and not on the receiving end of it. Because often one will find out the law does not work the way it is intended and it is not the same as what we see on TV shows. The nicest thing when someone is poor is that no one will sue you but also no one will seek justice for you. The opposite is also true like in the case of Kraft that Elvis mentioned
And that is how our government are in deadlock all the time.
My 2 cents
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[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2484827]Mongerer,
Whenever I talk about this subject, I run into denial on the part of men. For some reason, men who engage in prostitution think of themselves as law abiding citizens instead of the criminals they really are. In fact, you probably wince at me just using that word.
For law enforcement (LE), there was not a lot of success prosecuting people for a victimless crime. Until there was active promotion of a campaign against human trafficking. Now all of sudden there were victims, and men were the perpetrators.
Most white people, and I am white, are happy thinking the police / law enforcement are there to protect them, when they arrest someone there is good cause, when the police do use violence, they are justified. Again, there is the thinking the police like me and would never shoot me because I am a law abiding citizen, and I get it. People are happy believing that, and they attack anyone who bursts their bubble. If that is the case, quit reading right here..[/QUOTE]Too many generalizations. Also, you continually assume there is something or someone called typical monger, and that you know what that typical monger thinks. It is almost as if you think you are some objective, wise observer standing apart from the rest of the crowd passing judgement on them. Sorry to burst your bubble, you are also part of the typical monger crowd, whatever that means.
Most of us, or many of us anyway, know SB / SD is borderline gray area. Some of us also use escort services in US, some use street walkers, some used Craig's list, backpage, paid strippers for sex, what not. People do risky things. Some times they are aware of the risk, compute the risk and are accepting of the risk reward trade off. Sometimes, they underestimate the risk. Sometimes, their brain stops working and they do dumb stuff. When we are away from the scene, sitting alone in front of the computer and typing, many of us are able to analyze this in more cold calculated fashion and evaluate the risk.
It is up to each person to manage his own risk when it comes to SB / SD stuff or other forms of escorting. If you are not comfortable with that risk, go to Germany and fuck girls in FKKs which is quite legal. Or any other place that floats your boat.
But there is no need for lectures. The reality is that mongers are well traveled, hardcore bunch and know the realities of the world. You can even say jaded.
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2484905]What's the main takeaway that we should take from your recent posts? Are you suggesting that we can get arrested for SB / SD relationships? Sorry that I'm dense.[/QUOTE]Honestly, MW, I was just going through why I went from escorts to sugar daddy to international sugar daddy, and I was hoping others would tell their story.
As for LE, LE came right out and said if you are paying for sex, you are supporting human trafficking. That was why DAs said Kraft should be jailed for 5 years.
It would be hard to sell a college coed as being trafficked and I have not heard too much about LE going after the SD SB thing, but it is crazy right now. It is sad because for decades LE left us alone if no one got hurt. Even the sex workers are griping this is not helping them.
But I am not interested in this topic. I just saw things had come to a stand still and I am interested in why other guys became sugar daddies.
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[QUOTE=BrizLad;2484466]I have found that girls from Asian countries that we associate with lower priced pussy tend to ramp up their prices when they on [URL]seeking.com[/URL]. Trying to get back on topic, has anyone had success with Asian SB pussy when travelling in Asia?[/QUOTE]SA price is higher is a phenomenon across almost all countries I have experience with.
I think the only Asian country for mongering that is worthwhile on SA is Indonesia because I find it easier to find SB and less scams. Other countries like Thailand have their own dating sites so very few girls use SA even though they have a large population of prostitutes. There are many scams that are based in HK so skip all girls that use HK numbers. This includes the west coast in US. The Asian locals that use SA are seeking foreigners mostly or are expats living there. If I describe someone I met from SA in a specific city now, it is possible that you will able to identify the person if you try hard enough. There are not many choices after the scams are filtered out.
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Why SB
[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2484956]Honestly, MW, I was just going through why I went from escorts to sugar daddy to international sugar daddy, and I was hoping others would tell their story.
As for LE, LE came right out and said if you are paying for sex, you are supporting human trafficking. That was why DAs said Kraft should be jailed for 5 years.
It would be hard to sell a college coed as being trafficked and I have not heard too much about LE going after the SD SB thing, but it is crazy right now. It is sad because for decades LE left us alone if no one got hurt. Even the sex workers are griping this is not helping them.
But I am not interested in this topic. I just saw things had come to a stand still and I am interested in why other guys became sugar daddies.[/QUOTE]My move to SB had nothing to do with LE. I became a P411 member about 3 years ago. For those who don't know what P411 is it is a verification service run out of Canada that vets both sides to make sure no one is LE and has an "okays" system so girls can avoid weirdos. It really works pretty well and I've had several nice girls thru P411 including one of my ATFs Asian Christine who was my hot Filipina girlfriend for four straight nights but at about $2000 and just 6-8 hours total time. Don't know if they still accept new members — they closed up shop for a while when SESTA / FOSTA came out. If you want a safe hooker they are a good bet.
But then as I said in my primer below it was the real GFE with Thifany in London that got me into SB. And by GFE in this sense I mean beyond the bedroom. Romantic dinners. Dancing till 3 AM. Holding hands and walking in the park. Texting when apart. And of course legendary rather meaningful sex.
So that taste made me want a "girlfriend" instead of an escort. And of course for the same $400 you don't get an hour, you get an evening. And sometimes a full overnight. So it's truly awesome. Plus it does seem safe.
Of course I like my girls in all forms and venues. So the Boates of Brazil, the FKK of Germany, the Strip Clubs in Russia, the Love Hotels in Tokyo, the Ro-girls incall in London, the bar pickup in Shanghai (now mostly defunct). It's all too awesome to pass up when traveling abroad. But in the US? Seeking is the only game in town for me.
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[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2484956]Honestly, MW, I was just going through why I went from escorts to sugar daddy to international sugar daddy, and I was hoping others would tell their story.
But I am not interested in this topic. I just saw things had come to a stand still and I am interested in why other guys became sugar daddies.[/QUOTE]My reasons for becoming an SD is pretty much identical to Steve's reasons. This doesn't mean that I only seek SB / SD relationships. I still see pros regularly.
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[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2484827]Then Robert Kraft got arrested: [URL]https://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/palm-beach/fl-ne-robert-kraft-prostitution-case-appeal-fight-20191227-h7aepphb2jfzvl52qpmn5a2ibu-story.html[/URL].
"But now lawyers for the state are arguing for the first time that Kraft charged with two misdemeanor counts of soliciting prostitution actually committed a felony.
The latest court filing from the Attorney General's Office suggests Kraft could face a third-degree felony punishable by up to five years in prison, if the state wins its appeal of a lower court order favoring the billionaire."
LE arrested Kraft for getting a hand job and wanted to put him in jail for 5 years.
And what do you think the DAs droned about as a reason to put Kraft in jail? Supporting trafficking. Kraft was not the only one arrested, and no one was charged with trafficking, but LE wanted to stop trafficking even when in cases like this there was none.[/QUOTE]This is all old news that is misleading in its presentation. In January, the Florida prosecutors backed off a claim that Kraft committed a felony. The prosecutor's appeal to a higher court was to instate the video as evidence. A lower court threw out the video. In any event, in August the higher court upheld the lower court's suppression of the video evidence.
Whether this was your intent or not, your post reads in its sequence that the prosecutors were appealing the designation of a misdemeanor and trying to get the crime raised to a felony. Prosecutors typically can't appeal verdicts or charges. They appeal procedural rulings by a court such as the suppression of the video.
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[QUOTE=Steve9696;2484819]So since more folks are joining this thread and much of the good primer information is way back in Jan / Feb I thought I'the write a little intro to Seeking. Hope you enjoy and it helps others on their journey. Please note that this is for guys that enjoy the whole romance and simulated girlfriend thing. If you just want to find a girl to fuck there are plenty of those also.[/QUOTE]Steve, I have gone back and read your earlier posts and experiences from Jan / Feb. I think what would be helpful is how you screen SBs on the SA website. Now it might be hard to generalize what are the positive profiles. It seems like some attractive girls are super chill and the first impression is they want to hang out and have a good time. Others seem more sexually forward implying they are ready to get down. Perhaps both of these profiles are worth a response.
I would think it would be easier to look for negatives. Over the top requirements for long-term allowances, luxury shopping and international travel seem like a no-go. Phrases like "I know what I am worth" seem like a surefire GPS alert. The word "platonic' seems like a non-starter, but some guys on other boards seem to think that's just for public consumption and privately everyone knows what SA is all about. I'm not sure I would spend time responding to this type of profile. I'm sure there are other red flags.
Do you recommend prioritizing girls who are new to the site? Conversely, do you avoid girls who mention they have had several great SD relationships? Do you prefer a girl who has a bikini photo? Or do you prefer a more modest girl? I would think a girl with just head shots and a description like "curvy" or "a few extra pounds" would be problematic.
I'm not trying to answer my question. I am interested in Steve and other's take on initial screening.
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SB are for the rich
Hi,
I'm new to the SA thread, I've been collecting good intel here. When I am abroad I enjoy paying for sex in various way but here in the USA I have never tried it due to fears of LE. I don't really want to be a SD I just want to one good regular provider that I can call for sex like a pizza. However, my conclusion is that is it too expensive to do this here in the USA as weekly or bi weekly thing.
The reason is with some work I can find decent freebies and that when I have paid for sex abroad the cost was between $20 and $120 for high quality service.
Seems like there is a long process of courtship with SB and that I need to pay hundreds of dollars for anything even okay.
I guess I just to make an extra $1000 a month to get a SB, but if I had that I would spend $500 for a fun weekend in Tijuana and invest the rest.
I swear the only thing I don't like about the good ol USA is that paying for sex here is sooo expensive and illegal compared almost everywhere else.
Can we start our own lobbying group, please!
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Screening for Me
[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2485098]Steve, I have gone back and read your earlier posts and experiences from Jan / Feb. I think what would be helpful is how you screen SBs on the SA website. Now it might be hard to generalize what are the positive profiles. It seems like some attractive girls are super chill and the first impression is they want to hang out and have a good time. Others seem more sexually forward implying they are ready to get down. Perhaps both of these profiles are worth a response.
I would think it would be easier to look for negatives. Over the top requirements for long-term allowances, luxury shopping and international travel seem like a no-go. Phrases like "I know what I am worth" seem like a surefire GPS alert. The word "platonic' seems like a non-starter, but some guys on other boards seem to think that's just for public consumption and privately everyone knows what SA is all about. I'm not sure I would spend time responding to this type of profile. I'm sure there are other red flags.
Do you recommend prioritizing girls who are new to the site? Conversely, do you avoid girls who mention they have had several great SD relationships? Do you prefer a girl who has a bikini photo? Or do you prefer a more modest girl? I would think a girl with just head shots and a description like "curvy" or "a few extra pounds" would be problematic.
I'm not trying to answer my question. I am interested in Steve and other's take on initial screening.[/QUOTE]I guess first I sorta read part of what you said like you are responding to girls that reach out to you. Maybe you weren't saying that, but I NEVER do this. (Ok one in fifty). Girls who reach out are usually hookers or desperate or both. You must Seek.
I have a type. 90% of girls are not my type. So that's easy to screen. But once I pick someone based on looks I cast a wide net. I enjoy the cat and mouse so I contact virtually every girl that falls within my taste. It's a numbers game for sure.
You are right to avoid platonic or online only. I've tried dragging a few into the pond and no dice. Friend with Benefits tag is clearly DTF but I went back and looked and Krystal my ATF did not have it. So don't let it screen out some diamonds.
Definitely stay away from the "it's all about me" girls. Who the fuck contacts them?
Prior SDs is OK tho most girls won't mention it. And just know that curvy means different things in different geographies. In the US it means fat. In South America it means slim with big tits. So don't rule out curvy girls outside the US.
Yes I always scan for new girls. I've gone thru the entire roster for my area so new girls get special attention. I use the Hide function to take girls I don't want out of the list so I am always pruned back to reasonable candidates.
Couple other thoughts. Usually when a girl comes on strong with sexy vibe she is a catfish. Case in point just last night this girl was off Tinder but same thing. Had a nice chat for an hour or so. Then Very let's get down. My roommate is gone. And shortly thereafter "oh can you do verification so I know you are safe?" With link to phishing site. Didn't click of course. She was very persistent about how it's safe and she's done it and all. Finally ghosted her.
That said Layla my current SB was super sexual in her profile. I was convinced she was a catfish. Smelled scam even as we were meeting up! And it turned out fine. Point is you need to follow all the leads just be careful to be eyes wide open.
Oh and don’t hesitate to be persistent. I’ve had a couple girls I’ve gone out with where they ignored my opener. But I followed up and we engaged. Even had one girl shoot me down three months back and the we ended up doing a meetup on my second assault. I think they just get inundated and of course circumstances change over a period of months.
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I don't know how some of the posters here can be so confident of the greater supposed legal protections in Latin America versus the United States, in light of the Cuba Dave case.
[URL]https://www.launchknowledge.com/the-cuba-dave-story-interview-2018/[/URL]
Of course what Cuba Dave did was different than what a typical sex tourist, including a Sugar Daddy, does. But that is no different than the distinction that many of us make regarding how different aspects of the USA Commercial sex scene works.
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My screens
Besides the usual screens, such as ethnicity, body type, height, age, etc. , here are the additional ways that I screened with a pretty high degree of success:
(1) I looked for stories that seemed genuine. Some examples include the girl that wanted to go to medical school, but discovered the tech field and is now working for a startup and therefore her current salary is not high. Another example is the person that just got divorced and is looking for work, but in the meantime she needs some affection and some financial help. Another example is the gal that just graduated from college and could not find a job and moved back home with her parents and just wanted to go out and have fun. Stuff like this. These stories are rare because gals usually don't post this kind of stuff, so it meant that I had to read about a hundred profiles before I would come across one of these kinds of stories. But when I did find one, I would invest a lot of time into trying to meet them. For example, I would study their profile carefully and then use some of that stuff as topics of convo during our initial exchange. (A derivative of this screen is that I also looked for gals that had unique interests, such as going to art exhibits and movie festivals.).
(2) I sometimes specifically looked for highly educated girls, ones with graduate degrees. I'm sort of smart, so I can chat up educated girls pretty okay. While every girl desires respect, the educated girls in particular especially wanted to be respected, especially for their smarts, and that was something that I was able to pull off. "Dating" these girls was okay fun for me, because I enjoy a good convo sometimes. In fact, I think almost all of these girls wanted to keep in touch with me after our arrangement ended. I'm still friends with one of them.
(3) I always looked for girls that were VERY new to SA. They are not jaded yet. I would try to arrange a meet-and-greet with them ASAP. When a new girl joins the site, they might get about a dozen meeting requests in the first few days, and so my odds are pretty good at this point. After I meet them, many of these girls would tell me something like, "I have met 3 guys on this site so far, and I like you the most. " For the ones that have been on SA for several months or over a year, the odds that I can get a meeting with them are low, and at that point, they are taking a business like approach to finding an SD.
This doesn't mean that I ignored girls outside of the screens above.
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2485214]Besides the usual screens, such as ethnicity, body type, height, age, etc. , here are the additional ways that I screened with a pretty high degree of success:
This doesn't mean that I ignored girls outside of the screens above.[/QUOTE]For me.
(4) Any girl that specifies "wanting to e spoiled" or "wanting to enjoy the finer things in life" is OFF my list. For me it shows that they have the wrong expectation of the SB-SD agreement. I know that for me as a SD I'm not searching in the oe of finding a girl just so I can have the fun of throwing money at them. That happens for the right girl with a sensible performance based attitude.
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[QUOTE=Mongerer88;2485198]I don't know how some of the posters here can be so confident of the greater supposed legal protections in Latin America versus the United States, in light of the Cuba Dave case.
[/QUOTE]I actually thought about why this topic pisses so many people off, and I realize that with any stressful situation the first and second reactions like with grief are denial and then anger. When a guy comes in and talks about the risk and breaks through the denial like I did, the anger, which I have told you all has happened before, should be expected.
You have two choices mongering in the USA: you can accept that if you pay for sex that you are supporting human trafficking as law enforcement says or you can think like I do LE is fucking crazy and make adjustments based on that fact.
You are programmed with all you watch to think LE is filled with heroes and good guys instead of just thinking about them as the people they are. What woke me up to this was one police officer who arrested me and was fired the next day because basically he was an idiot and everyone wanted to know what I did wrong. What actually happened is the police officer did not know the law. When I said what I was stopped for, the response was that I probably said something wrong as if that was something that I should be arrested for. Here were people who knew me and had known me for decades throwing the first amendment in the trash can just so they could cling to the notion that what happened to me would not happen to them. This guy was making less than a fucking Uber Eats driver, but I was amazed that person after person thought he could do no wrong.
Even if you get to the fact that maybe this cop was a bad actor, and he had a terrible history of abuses, there is the one bad apple crap which is another assumption. It was not one bad cop. It turned out this whole small town was rotten to the core. They used their part of an Interstate to legally mug drivers.
If you say that you are comfortable with the risk, you are just as crazy as LE is. That denial may make you feel better in the moment, but it is not helpful. Instead of thinking LE would never come after you, what is useful is to learn about how they would and take action to prevent that from happening.
When I hear people say that I didn't understand the Kraft case or I am a typical monger or in your case, "You do not know what you are talking about with Latin America, look at Cuba", that is just showing me the denial. I didn't mention Cuba with regards to sugar babies, and Cuba is a far different animal with regards to prostitution than other Latin countries.
Now, it is different with Covid, but in Mexico prior to Covid, I had a hotel concierge in Mexico City at an upscale hotel bring a hooker to my hotel door. But again, you have been trained to think that Mexico is dangerous and the USA is safe. If you get out of the denial and realistically readjust your benefit: risk ratios, then you may think and act differently as I did. Maybe you need to fear Mexico less and American LE more. I have read at least four mongers say something to the effect that getting a Mexican SB is like shooting fish in a barrel, and I can tell you it is.
In some ways, I do not even want to talk about because it may not benefit me. When I went to Rio in 2004, the amount of Americans there was suffocating, and the prices were higher than in other places. Also, I kind of like mongering to be low key, and it was anything but there. Still, it was kind of cool seeing 25 year old African Americans and 50 something white Americans in a cafe talking strategy on how to score Brazilian pussy something I doubt I would have seen in the USA. Those were the help disco days.
There have been thousands if not tens of thousands of johns in the USA arrested in stings. Seeking has made adjustments to keep from being targeted, and LE has left them alone for now, but things could continue to change.
I loved the world where LE looked at prostitution as a victim less crime, but that world is gone. I had a cop tell me he didn't care about arresting johns for prostitution and was skeptical anyone was being trafficked but he eventually found women who were trafficked, and those few women being trafficked was the excuse for this massive sea change in attitude.
As far as what to do, use a VPN when on this site and other mongering sites. Have two phones where one cannot be directly traced to you. Screen women for criminal backgrounds and stay away from those who have them as they might cut deals with LE to turn you in.
I always thought as long as you had a woman saying you are a good guy you could not get into trouble, but with Kraft, LE put in a camera in the studio. I would use that knowledge to my advantage. Give money in an envelope then instead of cash. Emphasize that you are giving a gift versus paying a wage and steer clear of women who are asking how much. Emphasize to women that their taking a gift after sex is legal but expecting payment for a service is illegal and say that is to their benefit so they do not get arrested for prostitution. Do as much as you can to make your relationship look BF / GF or even mistress like than ho and john.
I did not say LE is coming after mongers. I am just repeating what they said. When LE says they are coming after men paying for sex, it is time to be paranoid not in denial.
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CDMX Seeking
Guess I should probably say something about my experience with Seeking in CDMX. Just got back home from 2 weeks there. I am a candidate in the Moderna vaccine trials and I'm less than 30 years old so I decided that I was done being stuck at home in the US and wanted to venture out. I know passable Spanish and I've always wanted to visit Mexico (outside of Tijuana), and wanted a city relatively close to home, so CDMX was the obvious choice.
One thing to know, which I assume people here already know, is that SA is not just meeting escorts online. It is a lot of work. Seriously, it felt like most of my time not working was spent just herding cats on SA. But the payoff is a GFE that is off-the-charts value if you choose to view it as such. As has been previously mentioned, ideally you would find a girl that is actually in to you, and her need for money and your desire for physical intimacy seals the deal. I'll confess, I am too much of a softy and I ended up not being able to navigate that boundary, as I will detail later on.
Generally speaking prices ranged from 1500 – 4000. I am not here to litigate about paying too much / inflating prices / blah blah blah. I have limited amount of time and close the deal before these girls flake. And rest assured, they'll flake even if you do agree on an arrangement. I don't know if it's my young age or profile, but I received maybe a 20% response rate. My approach was if it there was a hook on their profile I generally referenced it in my intro message, but most profiles are low effort so I opened with a low effort intro (Como estas? I'm visiting Mexico for two weeks).
Anyway here's the rundown.
Week 1.
Sunday – Had been speaking to a cute 20 year old Bartender who had recently been laid off from her airport job. We met and she was nice and talkative. Most museums are still closed due to Covid, but Palacio de Bellas Artes was open so we checked out some cool murals by Diego Rivera and others. Afterwards got some delicious churros off of the central square. Really building some vibes here so we grab a Uber back to my Roma Norte Airbnb.
There we chat over beers and things get hot and heavy. A vigorous and passionate lovemaking session ensues. We talk a bit more, share memes, she teaches me Mexican slang (seriously wacky stuff). And then off she goes with 1500 MXN (70 USD). For that price, you'the be lucky to get a half-hearted quickie from an HK girl on her third dude of the night. I got the better part of 4 hours of guided tour through a cool city – and I fucked the tour guide later!
Monday (Labor Day) – organized to meet a 19 year old at my apartment. Beware of any girls that don't show their body in their photos. No matter how alluring their face may look, ask to see full body pics before setting up the meet. Turned out she was hiding quite a muffin top, and her face was also filtered to hell. Paid her 1000 out of 1500 planned just to get her to bounce ASAP.
Then quickly rang up a 21 year old student who was game to come over. Established some chemistry over coffee and then headed back to the apartment. There we continued to chat and then we moved in. It was a nice session (side note – really getting to brush up on my oral skills, which the girls seem to legitimately enjoy) even though she didn't really want to kiss which brought it down a peg. Also BTW, I used condoms throughout the entire trip, usually at the girls request. Otherwise, a very nice session, paid 2000 MXN (95 USD).
Tuesday – this girl messaged me a few days back and she seemed eager. She was ok, pictures were more or less accurate but maybe a bit fuller in person. Not much to say, as she seemed pretty semi-professional. Her profile was at least a year and a half old, and her making the first move is a pretty sure sign. It wasn't a bad session by "hooker" standards but not what I was shooting for. 2000 + Uber (99 USD).
Wednesday – should mention that at this point I was fighting against a very unexpected an nefarious hemorrhoid issue. I'm too young for this shit. Anyways, I had been in touch with a very different type of profile. Her pictures and Insta painted a picture of a life of significant privilege. In her profile she stressed no one older than 35, and she laughed off my original offer of 2000, saying nothing less than 4000 (189 USD). I was intrigued at the idea of hooking up with a member of the Mexican upper-middle class so I agreed. The day of, my health situation was just not allowing for it, and unfortunately I canceled in a manner that was graceless enough to earn a block from her. And I guess subconsciously I wasn't thrilled at the idea of ponying up close to $200 + overpriced drinks on a Wednesday evening.
Thursday and Friday – chilled and relaxed and let my be-hole rest. As a side note, I've been eating road-side tacos and tortas without any stomach issues. Eating like a king (or at least a lesser baron) for less than $5 a day.
Saturday – Met a 21 year old university chick for lunch and drinks. She was really cute and fun and flirty, but some of these girls. Man. Don't really have their head screwed on straight. We were about to get down to business after she was grinding on me during an impromptu salsa lesson, when she gets a call from her friend in need of being rescued from her boyfriend. It did seem authentic. And then she gets in this weird act of grinding heavily on my hand and moaning, then crying about how she was a bad friend because she was there with me, going to the door to leave, grinding on me again saying she was horny, back to the bed, refusing to kiss because she knew that would get her too hot and cause her to abandon her friend, then asking me if I had ever paid for sex before. It was all very confusing for me and evidently her as well, she was clearly ambivalent about the p4 p situation. Gave her 1000 MXN (47 USD) and she said she'd be open to meet later in the week for a non-paid night out (which I didn't really pursue). Probably the one payout that looking back I actually regret, but I had a somewhat enjoyable time.
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CDMX Seeking, part 2
Week 2.
Sunday, part 1 – met a nice, cute 19 year old at my apartment in the morning. Very shy, and very starfish but she seemed to enjoy my oral. The sex was mediocre but she was tight and I enjoyed myself. 1500 MXN (70 USD) for a nice morning quickie, well spent I thought.
I then moved Airbnb's from Roma Norte to Condesa, which I liked a lot better. Hipster / hippie / yuppie, tons of places to walk around and check out, beautiful park right in the middle, and seemed safer than Roma. Got a rather European-vibe from the area, highly recommended.
Sunday, part 2 – intro Hippie Chick. The one thing is, it's really easy to recognize a quality profile on SA when you see one. Clear effort into both sections of her profile, pictures that showed her physical beauty as well as a personality. She was 100% my type physically so I shot her a message. She opened with 4000, and she accepted by counter of 3000 MXN (142 USD). We met at the Museo Tamayo en Chapultapec. She was an absolute cutie, and, as I learned, smart, funny, educated, cultured, and actually the daughter of the ex-mayor of CDMX. She comes from a pretty wealthy and well-connected family. Had a really good time, when back to the apartment and also had a really good time but I did not manage to finish – this girl clearly fucked with my head a bit.
Monday – rest.
Tuesday – met probably the most beautiful woman I'll ever have sex with, but the thing is she had a dick haha. She is a trans model, originally Venezuelan but now living in CDMX. I mean, drop dead gorgeous, once you're with a girl like that you realize that they are on another level. She was headlining publications and PRIDE marches and here I had here in my apartment. Definitely no GFE (always checking her phone for a dinner she was about to go to) but very serviceable in the sack. Once again my oral skills were appreciated and we were both satisfied. Would not repeat, but holy shit, just being in the same room with her was an experience.
Wednesday – got brutally ghosted by a girl I was looking forward to meeting. Just stopped responding to texts like a few hours before meeting. Shrug.
Thursday – Met up with the Bartender from last week. Just had a bite of dinner, walked around Condesa, and headed back to the apartment. Another very nice round, followed by a nice chat about life and relationships. 1500 just as last time.
Friday – was originally planning to meet Hippie Chick again, but scheduling didn't work out so we planned for tomorrow (Saturday).
Saturday – met with Hippie Chick and rolled on M. My first time doing it so I was excited. It's typically more used in more of a party situation, but nothing like that during Covid. So we just chilled in the Airbnb, listened to music, gave / received massages. We ended up not having sex, only cuddling a bit. She received a call from a friend visiting from out of state (second time I've heard "I'm such a bad friend by being here with you right now") so she bounced. It was a strange encounter, and I've been thinking about it a lot. She was much more secure in the arrangement than I was; I was clearly the ambivalent one this time around. That morning I had sent her a text saying that if I was ingesting substances that would open me up emotionally, then I didn't want there to be money involved. I ended up giving her 1000 for the M + 1000 for whatever else we did. She sensed that I had mixed feelings about it, and she offered to give me back 500 and I refused (even though she was the one who asked for a "propina" Pretty confusing experience. I realized that it was probably better that we didn't force anything that night, it just didn't feel right. And I plan on coming back to CDMX again; I feel like just knowing her as a friend would be better and more fun than maintaining a SD / SB relationship. All in all, the thing I regret was not clearly removing the P4 P elements before the trip, it should have just been platonic roll from the get-go, and it would have been much cleaner and funner. Left on good terms, and will keep in touch.
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Tinder Sucks Ass!
Decided to poke around Tinder for a bit and see what I could scare up. Yikes. 90% ugly or fat or both. The remaining 10% are scams and only fans and subscribe to see my pussy girls. Basically any girl that is mildly attractive wants money for doing essentially nothing.
Beyond disappointing. Totally sucks ass!
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[QUOTE=Steve9696;2485522]Decided to poke around Tinder for a bit and see what I could scare up. Yikes. 90% ugly or fat or both. The remaining 10% are scams and only fans and subscribe to see my pussy girls. Basically any girl that is mildly attractive wants money for doing essentially nothing.
Beyond disappointing. Totally sucks ass![/QUOTE]An SB once told me that the reason she was on SA is because she realized that she was fucking guys for free on Tinder when she could be fucking guys for money on SA. She said it was like an epiphany for her.
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2485531]An SB once told me that the reason she was on SA is because she realized that she was fucking guys for free on Tinder when she could be fucking guys for money on SA. She said it was like an epiphany for her.[/QUOTE]Yep, they have told me the same. This why I love the girls in Russia / Mexico, so much better experience.
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You keep saying or at least implying that I like USA Cops.
I don't.
But you keep saying things that aren't supported by an actual analysis of data.
There have not been tens of thousands of Johns arrested in sting operations.
Some of us actually study arrests and techniques.
It seems that your solution when you dislike USA Cops, or read some propaganda that you disagree with, is to abandon the USA Entirely.
That is certainly what the USA Cops want.
Most of us recognize that non-USA Sex workers provide a better value than those in the USA But most USA Johns earn far more than foreign workers when doing the same jobs in the USA So it has never been clear to me why the same principle would not be true for USA Sex workers.
For those of us who do this in the USA, real risk / reward calculations are important, which is why I object to your generalizations and numbers that aren't supported by an analysis of actual data. And massage parlors were never safe, by the way. Even before the Kraft case, if you were in there when a cop was wearing a wire in another room and gave the signal for the backup to arrive after she said the "wrong thing", the cops went around and opened doors trying to find illegal activities in process.
But Seeking Arrangement is one on one private activity that would seem to fall outside of all known arrests and citations. Those of us into seeing independent escorts who screen, and / or Seeking ladies, keep a close watch to see if L. E. Ever crosses boundaries it never has before. I don't think that will ever happen.
[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2485503]I actually thought about why this topic pisses so many people off, and I realize that with any stressful situation the first and second reactions like with grief are denial and then anger. When a guy comes in and talks about the risk and breaks through the denial like I did, the anger, which I have told you all has happened before, should be expected.
You have two choices mongering in the USA: you can accept that if you pay for sex that you are supporting human trafficking as law enforcement says or you can think like I do LE is fucking crazy and make adjustments based on that fact.
You are programmed with all you watch to think LE is filled with heroes and good guys instead of just thinking about them as the people they are. What woke me up to this was one police officer who arrested me and was fired the next day because basically he was an idiot and everyone wanted to know what I did wrong. What actually happened is the police officer did not know the law. When I said what I was stopped for, the response was that I probably said something wrong as if that was something that I should be arrested for. Here were people who knew me and had known me for decades throwing the first amendment in the trash can just so they could cling to the notion that what happened to me would not happen to them..[/QUOTE]
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Great review. Hoping to get down there in Oct.
[QUOTE=Rextor;2485510]Week 2.
Sunday, part 1 met a nice, cute 19 year old at my apartment in the morning. Very shy, and very starfish but she seemed to enjoy my oral. The sex was mediocre but she was tight and I enjoyed myself. 1500 MXN (70 USD) for a nice morning quickie, well spent I thought.
I then moved Airbnb's from Roma Norte to Condesa, which I liked a lot better. Hipster / hippie / yuppie, tons of places to walk around and check out, beautiful park right in the middle, and seemed safer than Roma. Got a rather European-vibe from the area, highly recommended.
Sunday, part 2 intro Hippie Chick. The one thing is, it's really easy to recognize a quality profile on SA when you see one. Clear effort into both sections of her profile, pictures that showed her physical beauty as well as a personality. She was 100% my type physically so I shot her a message. She opened with 4000, and she accepted by counter of 3000 MXN (142 USD). We met at the Museo Tamayo en Chapultapec. She was an absolute cutie, and, as I learned, smart, funny, educated, cultured, and actually the daughter of the ex-mayor of CDMX. She comes from a pretty wealthy and well-connected family. Had a really good time, when back to the apartment and also had a really good time but I did not manage to finish this girl clearly fucked with my head a bit..[/QUOTE]
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[QUOTE=BrizLad;2485474]For me.
(4) Any girl that specifies "wanting to e spoiled" or "wanting to enjoy the finer things in life" is OFF my list. For me it shows that they have the wrong expectation of the SB-SD agreement. I know that for me as a SD I'm not searching in the oe of finding a girl just so I can have the fun of throwing money at them. That happens for the right girl with a sensible performance based attitude.[/QUOTE]I totally avoid those profiles too. This is why SA is a lot of work. Sometimes, I will go through a hundred profiles until I find one that I like.
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Rextor: Dood, you did EPIC work, very well done
[QUOTE=Rextor;2485510]Week 2.
Tuesday met probably the most beautiful woman I'll ever have sex with, but the thing is she had a dick haha. She is a trans model, originally Venezuelan but now living in CDMX. I mean, drop dead gorgeous, once you're with a girl like that you realize that they are on another level. She was headlining publications and PRIDE marches and here I had here in my apartment. Definitely no GFE (always checking her phone for a dinner she was about to go to) but very serviceable in the sack. Once again my oral skills were appreciated and we were both satisfied. Would not repeat, but holy shit, just being in the same room with her was an experience.
[/QUOTE]Your two weeks in CDMX was fucking EPIC! As I was reading about your second week, I almost choked on my drink when I read about your Tuesday. I'm still like, LOLWUT! Thanks for sharing your adventures, man. I'm sure everyone on here benefited from it, learned something, and enjoyed reading it.
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Small update
I only saw her twice in the past couple of weeks, once for lunch, and another time in a movie room, which is like a KTV room, but it's for watching movies, at $8 an hour. There's a huge bed in the room, and we fooled around for two hours. Then, I didn't see her for a week because I was busy at work and also her Aunt Flo visited. But we text each other every day.
Anyway, I finally saw her today, and we had a hot 2. 5 hour love making session. She said she loved me. I am starting to have real feelings for her too.
I didn't give her a dime today. She even paid for the hotel room ($30).
So far, this saga has lasted for 3. 5 weeks.
Eventually, I will start paying her $1,200 per month, which was our previously agreed arrangement before we got into a huge fight when I told her that I was married. I have to give her money, because I can't have her thinking that this is a real relationship.
My update seems pathetic compared to Rextor's epic report and SA adventures, but I'm a pretty happy camper right now.
[QUOTE=Midwestern;2482439]We met today. She gave me a dirty look. I apologized. She then said get ready for a slap to the face, but she just tapped me gently. I again said sorry, and I gave her my best puppy dog eyes, and she said let's never talk about this again. Then, we proceeded to spend the next 3 hours together. Just walking around, holding hands, kissing, chatting, and finally lunch. It didn't feel awkward at all.
We didn't discuss any arrangement today, because I thought it was too soon to bring it up. My only damage today was the price of a meal and my time. But I had a great time. She makes me laugh. Plus, she's just really hot. When I saw her today, it seemed like every guy around was looking at her. Well, in her skin tight jeans and skin tight shirt, you'd have to be gay not to stare at her, LOL.
But now, I'm pretty horny, so I might have to spend the afternoon with a high end pro.[/QUOTE]
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2485657]Your two weeks in CDMX was fucking EPIC! As I was reading about your second week, I almost choked on my drink when I read about your Tuesday. I'm still like, LOLWUT! Thanks for sharing your adventures, man. I'm sure everyone on here benefited from it, learned something, and enjoyed reading it.[/QUOTE]Glad you liked it. Pandemic conditions until at least middle 2021 + being vaccinated + being able to work remotely + disposable income = more fucking around in foreign countries upcoming. Colombia is likely next, as I have a novia-lite there that I've been talking to for like the last 6 months LOL.
And yeah kids these days are fucking and sucking whomever, and the world is a better place for it.
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Thanks Guys!
Steve and Midwestern, thanks again for your insights. When screening profiles, it's good to know that other than the obvious non-starters that there are many different types of profiles that can lead to good encounters. I don't consider FWB too forward. I like a girl who notes discretion. Any girl who discusses having fun in her profile is making a good impression.
While I have not stuck my toe in the Sugar Bowl, I started to realize that these young women were not always sure how to stick out from the crowd and make a good impression. Should she come on strong? Should she be chill? She doesn't want to come off like a szlut on her public profile, etc, etc. I think there are plenty of pretty girls who have photos in clothing that show off their figure (bikini or not). They seem genuine and interested in a good time.
I am mostly considering SA for the USA Right now. Although Rextor's great trip makes me think you can plan a fun vacation (if you don't mind some flakes and head games). The expectation as a foreign visitor has to be that the relationship is one or two nights. Yes, if you really dig someone you can meet up on another trip or fly them to meet you somewhere. I am more worried of USA SBs who want more from me, get crazy and indiscreet.
Let me insert here, I like Steve's not too young (too flaky), not too old (thinking about being married) analysis of his experiences. He recommends the 21-24 year old girl who is sexual, adventurous and just wants to have fun. (I hope I got that right, Steve.) Midwestern, I don't rule out divorced women. I have also dated them on occasion. It's nice when they just want to have fun and nothing serious. And yes, Midwestern I like intelligent girls. I couldn't relate to dumb twentysomething women even when I was a twentysomething.
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[QUOTE=Steve9696;2485522]Decided to poke around Tinder for a bit and see what I could scare up. Yikes. 90% ugly or fat or both. The remaining 10% are scams and only fans and subscribe to see my pussy girls. Basically any girl that is mildly attractive wants money for doing essentially nothing.[/QUOTE]On a related note, does anyone know any social websites where you can meet attractive women in their 40's-50's? You used to be able to find mature women on yahoo personals or even craigslist if you were lucky. I know some of you don't consider mature women, but with plastic surgery and health clubs there are quite a few women in that age group that still got it. In the rare occasion I run into an attractive mature (sans wedding ring) at the store, the health club or in an office building, I usually flirt my ass off. They are very receptive to flirtation anywhere, anytime at that age. If they size you up, agree to meet you and they like you, there is not going to be the third date-fourth date slow Bolero build-up to the bedroom. Mature women don't waste time.
It's not hard to find mature women. It's finding the mature women who take care of themselves.
Strangely, there are a few mature women on Seeking and some of them are seeking some type of remuneration. How much do they pay Seeking for their subscription?
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Mature Women
Loved your insight. I just find it hard finding mature woman that look half way decent and take care of themselves!
[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2485717]
It's not hard to find mature women. It's finding the mature women who take care of themselves.
Strangely, there are a few mature women on Seeking and some of them are seeking some type of remuneration. How much do they pay Seeking for their subscription?[/QUOTE]
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Free Cruises on Loveboats.
You might want to check into free cruises on "Loveboats" that cater to women travellers. Talked to one guy who went on a free cruise in exchange for going to social activities and dancing with mature female paying passengers. Apparently there was a shortage of men for these older mature women so the cruise ship was giving out free cruises to get enough men on board to go to social activities with the mature ladies. Be prepared to dance a lot and be pursued on the ship by herds of mature "groupies."
[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2485717]On a related note, does anyone know any social websites where you can meet attractive women in their 40's-50's? You used to be able to find mature women on yahoo personals or even craigslist if you were lucky. I know some of you don't consider mature women, but with plastic surgery and health clubs there are quite a few women in that age group that still got it. In the rare occasion I run into an attractive mature (sans wedding ring) at the store, the health club or in an office building, I usually flirt my ass off. They are very receptive to flirtation anywhere, anytime at that age. If they size you up, agree to meet you and they like you, there is not going to be the third date-fourth date slow Bolero build-up to the bedroom. Mature women don't waste time.
It's not hard to find mature women. It's finding the mature women who take care of themselves.
Strangely, there are a few mature women on Seeking and some of them are seeking some type of remuneration. How much do they pay Seeking for their subscription?[/QUOTE]
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[QUOTE=Travv;2485724]You might want to check into free cruises on "Loveboats" that cater to women travellers. Talked to one guy who went on a free cruise in exchange for going to social activities and dancing with mature female paying passengers. Apparently there was a shortage of men for these older mature women so the cruise ship was giving out free cruises to get enough men on board to go to social activities with the mature ladies. Be prepared to dance a lot and be pursued on the ship by herds of mature "groupies."[/QUOTE]I would think that is a little older than I'm thinking, The cruise scene sounds like 60's and 70's. There are a few bars in my city that cater to an older crowd. Retro music, dancing, etc. You run into the same issues that you have in pick-up places. It's too loud, can't have a conversation, everything devolves to a base level of attraction, your clothes, your watch, blah, blah, blah. Don't get me wrong. It can be fun. However, younger guys show up so a hot, woman in her 40's who just wants action knows she can score a thirty year-old guy.
I don't mind the competition, but I prefer meeting women when they least expect it. They tend to be impressed with someone who can come up to them in a store or non-club environs.
This reminds me of a time I was shopping years ago. This attractive, older woman put something in my cart by accident (or maybe not by accident. I have very bold, quick reactions and immediately said "What are you doing? Are you coming home with me?" The lady was a gamer and quickly replied "Why? Do you want me to?" We laughed and talked. I got her number and took her out a few times. Always winding up at her nice house. She was a firecracker.
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[QUOTE=Rextor;2485670]Glad you liked it.[/QUOTE]Rextor,
I liked your report as well. I will say that the escort scene was much better than the SB scene preCovid in Mexico City. I have two Mexican SBs now who meet my needs there, and I have given up trying to find better.
[QUOTE=Rextor;2485670]Pandemic conditions until at least middle 2021 + being vaccinated + being able to work remotely + disposable income = more fucking around in foreign countries upcoming.Colombia is likely next, as I have a novia-lite there that I've been talking to for like the last 6 months.[/QUOTE]Colombia is a gold mine. I have been talking to six hot women, and all the guys there have been saying how great it is. You need a Covid PCR test, and it was $450 in my area and kind of a hassle so So I plan on going to Fort Lauderdale tomorrow and then heading out the following day after getting the test for $170 here: [URL]https://labdoctor.org/[/URL].
I hope they do not require this test for long. Anyway, with seeking, I would always shoot for the best looking women. With the USA, that meant like a date a month. Precovid, with Mexico City, that was like two dates a week. After Covid, I was going on a date a day.
In Bogota, preCovid it was one a day. In Medellin, it was two per day, so I cannot imagine what it is like now.
I am not going to be able to see all the women I have been chatting up in Colombia which is fucking crazy. I am only going to be able to meet 4 out of the 6 I have been chatting up.
Every country in the world has the best women available, every country but the USA. I guess all that government bailout money has prevented what has been going on in other countries.
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[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2485717]
It's not hard to find mature women. It's finding the mature women who take care of themselves.
Strangely, there are a few mature women on Seeking and some of them are seeking some type of remuneration. How much do they pay Seeking for their subscription?[/QUOTE]
I like older women too. Older women that are not married usually take good care of themselves, I guess to maintain their marketability. I actually met a bunch on SA. I can think of two right now off the top of my head. At the time, both were in their 50's, while I was in my late 40's. They were phenomenal in the sack. As for payment, both said that I could give them whatever I wanted. The money was just a small bonus for them. They just wanted to fuck. One lived in a huge house on the lake. She always made me amazing dinners, and then amazing breakfasts the next day. The other one had a great job. So, neither were on SA for the money. Both had huge fake tits, which I loved. For me, for some strange reason, big fake tits on a 50-something is hotter than big fake tits on a 20-something.
I used to go to cougar bars, but there's usually young guys that go there too, and the hot cougars always ended up going home with them, so I just quit that scene.
In fact, I just feel like it's pretty easy to hook up with someone in their 50s, but you're right in that we have to know where to find them, especially the ones that take good care of themselves.
Married women are another possibility. Some of them haven't had sex in years. But not sure where your ethics are with this. I had an affair last year with someone whose been married for over 20 years. Her husband doesn't even kiss her. And the last time she had sex was 6 years ago, and that was also an extramarital affair. So, she and I would meet once or even twice per week, and all we did was fuck. We barely even chatted. She never asked for a dime. That was the perfect arrangement, LOL.
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Several recent posts mention Robert Kraft.
Based on today's report, it appears that his case will have a Happy Ending.
[URL]https://www.bostonglobe.com/2020/09/21/metro/kraft-case-likely-be-dropped-after-prosecutors-forgo-appeal/?outputType=amp/[/URL]
Kraft really should get a Sugar Baby.
As a New England escort put it, Kraft cannot he expected to masturbate himself while wearing that many Super Bowl rings, and no one in Florida could possibly understand that.
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[blue][Deleted by Admin][/blue]
[b][u]EDITOR'S NOTE[/u]:[/b] [blue]This report was deleted because the subject was not related to the purpose of this Forum, which is as follows:
The purpose of this Forum is to provide for the exchange if information between men on the subject of finding women for sex.[/blue]
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2485865]............She always made me amazing dinners, and then amazing breakfasts the next day. The other one had a great job. So, neither were on SA for the money. Both had huge fake tits, which I loved. For me, for some strange reason, big fake tits on a 50-something is hotter than big fake tits on a 20-something.
..........................
Married women are another possibility. Some of them haven't had sex in years. But not sure where your ethics are with this. I had an affair last year with someone whose been married for over 20 years. Her husband doesn't even kiss her. And the last time she had sex was 6 years ago, and that was also an extramarital affair. So, she and I would meet once or even twice per week, and all we did was fuck. We barely even chatted. She never asked for a dime. That was the perfect arrangement, LOL.[/QUOTE]Yes, I absolutely agree fake tits look better on an older woman.
I've been lucky with the divorced and widowed. Divorce mostly. Those hot SBs who marry their SDs are certainly widowed at a fairly early age. Just sayin'.
Midwestern, thanks again. Can I ask you to do me a favor? Can you specify the countries where you have had these experiences? It sounds like you get around the globe and everyone seems to agree the USA Sugar baby scene is very different.
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[QUOTE=Mongerer88;2485868]Several recent posts mention Robert Kraft.
Based on today's report, it appears that his case will have a Happy Ending.
[URL]https://www.bostonglobe.com/2020/09/21/metro/kraft-case-likely-be-dropped-after-prosecutors-forgo-appeal/?outputType=amp/[/URL]
Kraft really should get a Sugar Baby.
As a New England escort put it, Kraft cannot he expected to masturbate himself while wearing that many Super Bowl rings, and no one in Florida could possibly understand that.[/QUOTE]Peter-sahn, you funny!
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[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2486061]
Midwestern, thanks again. Can I ask you to do me a favor? Can you specify the countries where you have had these experiences? It sounds like you get around the globe and everyone seems to agree the USA Sugar baby scene is very different.[/QUOTE]I used SA only in the USA. I was on it during 2014-2016. I was very active on SA when I used it. I used it in at least 9 different cities, mostly in SF. Wait, I just remembered that I used SA a lot in Niagara Falls, Canada, too. Actually, SA was amazing in Niagara Falls. Many of the gals that worked in the tourism industry were often hard up for money and looking for ways to make extra income. Same with Las Vegas, which is another place where I used SA sort of actively.
Right now, I'm stuck in Shanghai, and I say "stuck" because I am also partly based in the USA, but due to Covid, I'm currently in Shanghai full time. But as far as mongering goes, being in Shanghai now is pretty awesome, as life and mongering are pretty much back to normal here.
In Shanghai, the wealth disparity is huge. At least a couple of million migrant workers are here, from 2nd and 3rd tier Chinese cities. They work in construction, in restaurants, as housekeepers, at stores, as security officers, as cleaners, etc. In the past couple of years, I have discovered that these gals are prime for arrangements. Almost all of them are just flattered that a foreigner would be romantically attracted to them. These days, I prefer hooking with these migrant workers instead of with pros, simply because I think the migrant workers that I hook up with genuinely like me, which is what I liked about the girls on SA as well.
BTW, that was an awesome line that you used on that lady at the store! I laughed when I read it. Reminded me of one time when I was walking behind three people in NYC, and I overheard the woman say, "Where are all the good men?" And then I suddenly chimed in from behind, "I'm right here!" They all had a good laugh, and we exchanged digits.
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Don't believe a married woman telling you they haven't had sex in years!
[QUOTE=Midwestern;2485865]Married women are another possibility. Some of them haven't had sex in years. But not sure where your ethics are with this. I had an affair last year with someone whose been married for over 20 years. Her husband doesn't even kiss her. And the last time she had sex was 6 years ago, and that was also an extramarital affair.[/QUOTE]Women are Liars, worse than we are! They practice their lies with their girlfriends. Then they try their lies on men, looks like you believed their bull shit. They want strange Dick just like we want strange ass and pussy!
Most married men say their wives have not given them any for years and they sleep in separate rooms, they say that to innocent young women who believe it like you did! LOL!
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Try Belgrade
[QUOTE=LshRoomer;2484076]Thanks for all the info. It has helped out.
I'm stuck in the US unfortunately. But I would love to taste some central european juices these days LOL.
I'm looking to travel hopefully next year and I was thinking to try something new. I've been to Europe countless times and as I write this I think of some of the chicks that I want to see when I can get there again. Haven't had the FKK experience yet, or the asian experience. I've been to Japan, but wasn't mongering then. So I was considering where to go once Americans can easily cross borders again.
It sounds like there is a consensus to avoid Singapore, consider Indonesia, and try Thailand. . I'll have to consider whether to try Thailand or do FKK and a few SA girls in Baltics (that already sounds fun) . Hell, Brazil sounds like it has some potential as well.[/QUOTE]You should try Belgrade. Food is cheap & amazing. The night life is wild & unique. If you know somebody who is connected, you can get super favorable deals on accommodation 200-300 euro for 1 month for a very decent apartment with great privacy, you do not have to stay the whole month, but that is what you pay, but you will want to stay 1 month, trust me. There are amazing SPAs with pools for very cheep prices. If you know somebody connected, you can rent the pool for several hours for you & a girl for a great price. The good thing about Serbia & Belgrade is that you can enter without any restrictions. I know several guys from America who are currently there. You should definitely think about Belgrade. Did I forget to mention? The girls are super hot, amazingly beautiful.
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The Power of Alcohol!
A quick update on Layla who remains my regular thing during Covid. So last time we were together we had a solid time but during pillow talk she got very solicitous and asked what can she do to be a better sugar baby? WTF? That's amazing service. I like that!
Well I was honest and said our room time is a bit mechanical and forced — it doesn't flow well. She took this under advisement in good spirits. We had previously discussed the fact that she gets drunk super easy. So we kind of made a joint plan to liquor her up and see where things go.
Next night out we started with a brilliant dinner. This was super nice because every time so far we have gone direct to room. It was good just to chat. I learned so much about her. She is no shallow girl. More facets than a diamond. Oh and she used to be a stripper. I seem to attract this persona! This will pay off later in the night.
So we got a bottle of wine after dinner and headed to the room for a WILD time. Lady Tigress was in hiding! She is a COMPLETELY different girl when liquored up. Soooo much fun. And she just smiles and giggles nonstop. And OMG her smile. Its just amazing. She has two wattages -- standard OMG wattage and drop a load in your shoe wattage. Amazing!
We started over by the dresser just getting naked and drinking wine. She threw it back pretty quickly and was getting loopy. She gets super sexy and smily when drunk so this was totally working. At some point she puts me in the chair and says let me do my stripper thing. (totally naked). She's clearly done this before. She is doing the sexy cat and down between my legs and up for back grind, but mixed in with BJ. She knows WTF she is doing and gets me hard as a brick.
Well I am pretty drunk so perilously hard to finish, but we do:
CG in chair.
RCG in chair.
Mish on bed.
Doggie on bed.
Half spoon half doggie.
Doggie closed legs.
Doggie prone bone.
More mish.
Masturbation show.
Lots of ball licking and sucking.
Passionate DFK (short tho).
Eventually shoot a load on her chest via HJ and BLS. Very nice.
If I had any doubts if she is a keeper or not, those were blown away. I just need to get her liquored up to get the tigress Layla, not the robot Layla!
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Drunk sex
My favorite thing in the entire world is drunk sex. To me, the difference between sex and drunk sex is huge. If I can do the latter, I'll do it every day. If I can only do the former, then I can sometimes go a week without sex.
Great report, BTW.
Normally, I'd be jealous, but I had too had a great session recently with my arrangement.
[QUOTE=Steve9696;2486231]
Well I am pretty drunk so perilously hard to finish, but we do:
CG in chair.
RCG in chair.
Mish on bed.
Doggie on bed.
Half spoon half doggie.
Doggie closed legs.
Doggie prone bone.
More mish.
Masturbation show.
Lots of ball licking and sucking.
Passionate DFK (short tho).
Eventually shoot a load on her chest via HJ and BLS. Very nice.
If I had any doubts if she is a keeper or not, those were blown away. I just need to get her liquored up to get the tigress Layla, not the robot Layla![/QUOTE]
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+ edible
[QUOTE=Midwestern;2486266]My favorite thing in the entire world is drunk sex. To me, the difference between sex and drunk sex is huge. If I can do the latter, I'll do it every day. If I can only do the former, then I can sometimes go a week without sex.
Great report, BTW.
Normally, I'd be jealous, but I had too had a great session recently with my arrangement.[/QUOTE]There are times, especially in Denver or Amsterdam where an edible (just a bit) can really change the tides of the encounter. If you just dip your foot in the water with 2 MG or so (not much more unless you are a seasoned partaker), and one or two beers, you will definitely see the difference. Just like alcohol, don't ingest too much and it will guarantee you a great night.
I once gave my SB an edible in Prague and told her to take it easy (don't eat too much) and that it takes about an 1-2 hours to kick in. She was already buzzed from our outing, and after 30 minutes complained a bit that she didn't' feel it. After 90 minutes or so, I could tell she was feeling the edible and she became completely uninhibited. Great sex and my camera failed me, I was so mad. LOL.
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2486266]My favorite thing in the entire world is drunk sex. To me, the difference between sex and drunk sex is huge. If I can do the latter, I'll do it every day. If I can only do the former, then I can sometimes go a week without sex.
Great report, BTW.
Normally, I'd be jealous, but I had too had a great session recently with my arrangement.[/QUOTE]I am wondering how the girl feels the day after. Did she enjoy the experience and want to do it again or was she afraid of being her uninhibited self? So girls are naturally dtf, but other require some help in lowering inhibitions.
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Layla Fantasy
[QUOTE=Akibono;2486579]I am wondering how the girl feels the day after. Did she enjoy the experience and want to do it again or was she afraid of being her uninhibited self? So girls are naturally dtf, but other require some help in lowering inhibitions.[/QUOTE]Layla says she gets too crazy when she gets drunk. So she is only going to drink with me. Do I believe this? Nope. But happy to perpetuate the fantasy! Let's get drunk together babe just you and me. 😋.
Btw I do believe u will for sure have more success with a girl who is drinking — I don’t mean this in a bad way — not to take advantage of her but we are all a bit more DTF when drinking. I have had 4 “coffee dates” and other than Layla who has played the game before and DTF, the other three were fails. They were newbies and thought on it overnight and maybe it wasn’t for them. 90% sure we would have ended up together in bed if it was drinks instead of coffee. So take this under advisement.
Although one just sent me a naked pic out of the blue. She said she just wanted to brighten my day. Still not sure about SB but it feels like a crack in the wall for sure! I will see if I can get her out for drinks...
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[QUOTE=Steve9696;2486738]They were newbies and thought on it overnight and maybe it wasnt for them. 90% sure we would have ended up together in bed if it was drinks instead of coffee. So take this under advisement.[/QUOTE]Nothing personal Steve, I don't know your age or your looks, but I think some of these girls fantasize about handsome guys in their thirties and early forties sweeping them off their feet.
This is just an anecdote. I was following a city I travel to occasionally on SA. Over several months, this pretty girl (who looks like my ex-GF who was crazy in the sack) lowered her age from 60 to 50 and now 40. Granted everyone fudges on their age so perhaps when she put down 50 she was getting propositioned by 60 year old guys. Forty years old though, really?
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Stats Don't Lie
[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2486751]Nothing personal Steve, I don't know your age or your looks, but I think some of these girls fantasize about handsome guys in their thirties and early forties sweeping them off their feet.
This is just an anecdote. I was following a city I travel to occasionally on SA. Over several months, this pretty girl (who looks like my ex-GF who was crazy in the sack) lowered her age from 60 to 50 and now 40. Granted everyone fudges on their age so perhaps when she put down 50 she was getting propositioned by 60 year old guys. Forty years old though, really?[/QUOTE]You are definitely right there is some fantasy there. But the girls I've met have all seen my picture and know I am "middle aged" to put it kindly. The atmosphere and alcohol is clearly a deciding factor. Here are my stats over the last year as far as getting laid:
Dinner / alcohol - 22 for 23 (and would have been 23 for 23 had I known early what I know now. Still missing that one that got away (second SA date ever) and still hope to see her again! We had mad chemistry but I was amateurish.
Lunch / Coffee / No alcohol - 1 for 4. (Layla).
It's not only the alcohol tho it's time of day also. You have a nice dinner it's dark out you are escalating at the bar. Feels natural to get a room. In the cold light of day the flow is just not there. Going to try to stick to nighttime from now on.
And guys out there reading this - dont think I am 22 for 23 because I am some great looking stud. Far from it. Yes I am not objectionable but far from super handsome. 98% of it is being charming and fun to be with (and having money LOL) Just enjoy the moment and make sure they are having a blast and the rest will follow.
And if u are feeling rusty with ur game (or never had one - here’s looking at u Steve!) go check out Attraction Japan and the Playbook. This is all about street pickup in Japan but man just the basics of how to handle girls — total eye opener for me.
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[QUOTE=Steve9696;2486738]Layla says she gets too crazy when she gets drunk. So she is only going to drink with me. Do I believe this? Nope. But happy to perpetuate the fantasy! Let's get drunk together babe just you and me. 😋.
Btw I do believe u will for sure have more success with a girl who is drinking I dont mean this in a bad way not to take advantage of her but we are all a bit more DTF when drinking. I have had 4 coffee dates and other than Layla who has played the game before and DTF, the other three were fails. They were newbies and thought on it overnight and maybe it wasnt for them. 90% sure we would have ended up together in bed if it was drinks instead of coffee. So take this under advisement.
Although one just sent me a naked pic out of the blue. She said she just wanted to brighten my day. Still not sure about SB but it feels like a crack in the wall for sure! I will see if I can get her out for drinks...[/QUOTE]Very interesting sir. I haven't had a "coffee date" so far, though it has been proposed (and turned down). My goto is always drinks and / or dinner. If a girl tells me she doesn't drink, I usually shy away from her. I'm not saying that nondrinkers won't give you a great session, be spontaneous, and uninhibited. It just hasn't been my experience. Just like you mentioned, my intent isn't to get them sloppy drunk in order to bang them, it's more that drinks make the conversation flow more smoothly and lower inhibitions both sexually and conversationally. In my case, I am usually in town for a couple of days max, so I need the SB to warm up really fast in order to enjoy each other and establish a foundation for next time.
Quick question:
Imagine you have a great night out with an SB and you pay the agreed upon PPM (300 euro in my case). If she then text you a few days later and ask, "What you doing tonight" and wants you to go out with her, is this considered a "meet" (in general)?
Why do I ask?? This has happened a few times, but only with 2 SBs. With both girls I have made the assumption that I will pay for out outing and maybe if the mood suites us, we will return back to my place for end of night sex (and we did). With both girls, I did not pay the PPM whenever they asked me to go out. However, I have paid the PPM when I have needed their time. What do you guys think, PPM even when they ask you out or not?
02 requested LOL.
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[QUOTE=Steve9696;2486738]Layla says she gets too crazy when she gets drunk. So she is only going to drink with me. Do I believe this? Nope. But happy to perpetuate the fantasy! Let's get drunk together babe just you and me. 😋.
Btw I do believe u will for sure have more success with a girl who is drinking I dont mean this in a bad way not to take advantage of her but we are all a bit more DTF when drinking. I have had 4 coffee dates and other than Layla who has played the game before and DTF, the other three were fails. They were newbies and thought on it overnight and maybe it wasnt for them. 90% sure we would have ended up together in bed if it was drinks instead of coffee. So take this under advisement.
Although one just sent me a naked pic out of the blue. She said she just wanted to brighten my day. Still not sure about SB but it feels like a crack in the wall for sure! I will see if I can get her out for drinks...[/QUOTE]It seems like she is sending a message. Why not kid her about how sex she looks and what a tease. And then introduce a subtle statement about sex? If she is testing the waters, you'll get the message. But you are already a pro.
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Pricing?
You are definitely right there is some fantasy there. But the girls I've met have all seen my picture and know I am "middle aged" to put it kindly. The atmosphere and alcohol is clearly a deciding factor. Here are my stats over the last year as far as getting laid:
What kind of prices are you paying per meet for a hot, a 9 or 10, young SB in a major US city?
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Pricing?
[QUOTE=Steve9696;2486758]You are definitely right there is some fantasy there. But the girls I've met have all seen my picture and know I am "middle aged" to put it kindly. The atmosphere and alcohol is clearly a deciding factor. Here are my stats over the last year as far as getting laid:
Dinner / alcohol - 22 for 23 (and would have been 23 for 23 had I known early what I know now. Still missing that one that got away (second SA date ever) and still hope to see her again! We had mad chemistry but I was amateurish.
Lunch / Coffee / No alcohol - 1 for 4. (Layla).
It's not only the alcohol tho it's time of day also. You have a nice dinner it's dark out you are escalating at the bar. Feels natural to get a room. In the cold light of day the flow is just not there. Going to try to stick to nighttime from now on.
And guys out there reading this - dont think I am 22 for 23 because I am some great looking stud. Far from it. Yes I am not objectionable but far from super handsome. 98% of it is being charming and fun to be with (and having money LOL) Just enjoy the moment and make sure they are having a blast and the rest will follow.
And if u are feeling rusty with ur game (or never had one - heres looking at u Steve!) go check out Attraction Japan and the Playbook. This is all about street pickup in Japan but man just the basics of how to handle girls total eye opener for me.[/QUOTE]What are you paying per meet for a hot (9 or10) young SB in major US cities?
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[QUOTE=Steve9696;2486231]A quick update on Layla who remains my regular thing during Covid. So last time we were together we had a solid time but during pillow talk she got very solicitous and asked what can she do to be a better sugar baby? WTF? That's amazing service. I like that!
Well I was honest and said our room time is a bit mechanical and forced it doesn't flow well. She took this under advisement in good spirits. We had previously discussed the fact that she gets drunk super easy. So we kind of made a joint plan to liquor her up and see where things go.
Next night out we started with a brilliant dinner. This was super nice because every time so far we have gone direct to room. It was good just to chat. I learned so much about her. She is no shallow girl. More facets than a diamond. Oh and she used to be a stripper. I seem to attract this persona! This will pay off later in the night.
So we got a bottle of wine after dinner and headed to the room for a WILD time. Lady Tigress was in hiding! She is a COMPLETELY different girl when liquored up. Soooo much fun. And she just smiles and giggles nonstop. And OMG her smile. Its just amazing. She has two wattages -- standard OMG wattage and drop a load in your shoe wattage. Amazing![/QUOTE]Last Saturday I met up with my slash part time model in MTY. We go have a great dinner and drinks at my favorite Steak House. We Get home all that plus anal. We wake up and have sex again. Finally we get up take showers off to the SPA, great experience. Get home I had bought some toys. We break them out. She sticks one in her ass and we go at it for 1 hour Sunday afternoon. All for $200 to her. Spa $150 and Dinner was $150, but trust me we got our money worth at the restaurant.
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[QUOTE=Steve9696;2486758]You are definitely right there is some fantasy there. But the girls I've met have all seen my picture and know I am "middle aged" to put it kindly. The atmosphere and alcohol is clearly a deciding factor. Here are my stats over the last year as far as getting laid:
Dinner / alcohol - 22 for 23 (and would have been 23 for 23 had I known early what I know now. Still missing that one that got away (second SA date ever) and still hope to see her again! We had mad chemistry but I was amateurish.
Lunch / Coffee / No alcohol - 1 for 4. (Layla).
It's not only the alcohol tho it's time of day also. You have a nice dinner it's dark out you are escalating at the bar. Feels natural to get a room. In the cold light of day the flow is just not there. Going to try to stick to nighttime from now on.
And guys out there reading this - dont think I am 22 for 23 because I am some great looking stud. Far from it. Yes I am not objectionable but far from super handsome. 98% of it is being charming and fun to be with (and having money LOL) Just enjoy the moment and make sure they are having a blast and the rest will follow.
And if u are feeling rusty with ur game (or never had one - heres looking at u Steve!) go check out Attraction Japan and the Playbook. This is all about street pickup in Japan but man just the basics of how to handle girls total eye opener for me.[/QUOTE]In the states I real do not mess around with lunch dates, usually a waste of time, for many different reasons. Also if they do not drink thing tend to be more difficult. These rules do not apply to Mexico and Russia. Mexican Girls love sex during the day, way more normal there, because of the there insane and controlling parents. (If they only knew what their daughters are doing.).
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[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2486751]
This is just an anecdote. I was following a city I travel to occasionally on SA. Over several months, this pretty girl (who looks like my ex-GF who was crazy in the sack) lowered her age from 60 to 50 and now 40. Granted everyone fudges on their age so perhaps when she put down 50 she was getting propositioned by 60 year old guys. Forty years old though, really?[/QUOTE]LOL, older gals always lie about their age. I had a similar experience. She was a year younger than me (at the time, I was late 40's), but she initially posted her age as 37, then a year later, I noticed she changed it to 33. She's never been married, so she kept her figure and looks. So, if they think they can pull it off, then more power to them.
[QUOTE=Steve9696;2486758]
It's not only the alcohol tho it's time of day also. You have a nice dinner it's dark out you are escalating at the bar. Feels natural to get a room. In the cold light of day the flow is just not there. Going to try to stick to nighttime from now on.
[/QUOTE]Agree on both counts. Daytime meets feel like a business meeting. Very awkward. And alcohol definitely makes the date feel more natural, as inhibitions are relaxed, both hers and mine.
To Akibono, I never encourage anyone to drink. I never make a girl do something that she doesn't want to do. So, I've never had a girl regret it the next morning if they drank.
[QUOTE=LshRoomer;2486766]Very interesting sir. I haven't had a "coffee date" so far, though it has been proposed (and turned down). My goto is always drinks and / or dinner. If a girl tells me she doesn't drink, I usually shy away from her.
Quick question:
Imagine you have a great night out with an SB and you pay the agreed upon PPM (300 euro in my case). If she then text you a few days later and ask, "What you doing tonight" and wants you to go out with her, is this considered a "meet" (in general)?
Why do I ask?? This has happened a few times, but only with 2 SBs. With both girls I have made the assumption that I will pay for out outing and maybe if the mood suites us, we will return back to my place for end of night sex (and we did). With both girls, I did not pay the PPM whenever they asked me to go out. However, I have paid the PPM when I have needed their time. What do you guys think, PPM even when they ask you out or not?[/QUOTE]I actually screen on drinking, to make sure she drinks. As I mentioned before, I love drunk sex, so she's got to be a drinker. Heavier the better, but not pass out drunk, obviously.
As for your question, if a gal contacted me, I would still PPM. It's the arrangement, after all, and no mention of who initiates a meet. I always want to make sure there this isn't a real relationship. If I don't stick to the arrangement, then they might think we are in a real relationship, and I cannot have them thinking that. I had a couple of instances where the gal began to think we were in a real relationship, and both ended badly and both hate me now. Last thing that I need.
[QUOTE=AmorPorFavor;2486864]What are you paying per meet for a hot (9 or10) young SB in major US cities?[/QUOTE]Based on what's in this thread, 500 for big cities like SF and NYC, 400 in other large cities, 300 in small cities. If you live somewhere really rural, then lower than 300 is possible.
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Renting a love shack
Any of you guys keep an extra apartment to use as a love shack? I'm about to rent an apartment (I verbally agreed yesterday, but haven't signed anything yet).
It looks like (fingers crossed) that I'll be maintaining two arrangements actively. I did the math, and the rent on the apartment ($1400 per month) is going to cost significantly more than using a hotel (tough to estimate monthly hotel cost due to unknown number of meetups, but the cost is in the ballpark of $800 to $1600 per month but probably closer to $800 for most months).
I'm willing to pay the extra cost of having a love shack so that I don't have to deal with hotels all the time. Especially the constraints, such as checking in after 2 pm and then having to reappear the next morning to "check out. " Of course, I could check out early, but if I always do this, then they'll probably think I'm doing something illicit. Plus, I hate dealing with the hassle of sneaking girls into hotels. And there's also the hassle of having to keep changing and using different hotels all the time. Finally, just want a place to chill.
Any of you guys see downsides to this, other than money? A friend of mine had a love shack, but his wife found out somehow. So, that's also a drawback.
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[QUOTE=AmorPorFavor;2486864]What are you paying per meet for a hot (9 or10) young SB in major US cities?[/QUOTE]I live in a major US city. I have not met any 9-10 through SA. I am fairly new on SA though (a few months). I met a stripper who is a 7-8 (beautiful face but some baby fat at tummy) at a local strip club (she is also coincidentally chatting with me on SA without knowing it) and she asked for 1,000 for about 4 hours during the day or overnight. She later budged to 800. I tried to bargain her to 1,000 per week with 2 meetings (so 500 per meeting) per week but she didn't bite. So far she is the most beautiful SA chic that I met.
I am chatting online with a gorgeous chic on SA but so far I haven't met her in person yet. She wants a long term relationship with connection and all that so it will take some time.
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[QUOTE=DiverOyster;2486913]I live in a major US city. I have not met any 9-10 through SA. I am fairly new on SA though (a few months). I met a stripper who is a 7-8 (beautiful face but some baby fat at tummy) at a local strip club (she is also coincidentally chatting with me on SA without knowing it) and she asked for 1,000 for about 4 hours during the day or overnight. She later budged to 800. I tried to bargain her to 1,000 per week with 2 meetings (so 500 per meeting) per week but she didn't bite. So far she is the most beautiful SA chic that I met.
I am chatting online with a gorgeous chic on SA but so far I haven't met her in person yet. She wants a long term relationship with connection and all that so it will take some time.[/QUOTE]That is way too much. The most I paid for "one meet" was $700 when I girl stayed with me for roughly 36 hours (two nights and a day) in a major city in the US. Yes, she was pretty, a skinny blonde. I would never pay $800 for 4 hours of SB session. First of all, most sugarbabes do tend to stay for a couple of hours of sex (much longer if including a lunch or dinner time together is included). And my normal is a couple of hundred, most often less than 300.
I would advise you not to fall for such prices. Unless you are doing this in an expensive city such as NYC, Boston, SF, etc.
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Check Chinese Law
[QUOTE=Midwestern;2486883]
Any of you guys see downsides to this, other than money? A friend of mine had a love shack, but his wife found out somehow. So, that's also a drawback.[/QUOTE]You may want to check to find out if it is legal for a married man to have an affair in China, then weight the consequence. Usually wife will want to keep things quiet so it is not as bad the girl using it as a threat when things don't work out.
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[QUOTE=Nounce;2486930]You may want to check to find out if it is legal for a married man to have an affair in China, then weight the consequence. Usually wife will want to keep things quiet so it is not as bad the girl using it as a threat when things don't work out.[/QUOTE]From what I've been told, it is illegal for a married man to have an affair. Also, from what I've been told, when police cannot prove that there was a monetary transaction involved, then they will charge you for having sex outside of marriage.
I'm thinking about telling the girls that I am renting this place using AirBnB.
However, I am concerned about my neighbors ratting me out. In China, anyone can get social credits for being a good citizen, and being a good citizen includes ratting out people.
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[QUOTE=DiverOyster;2486913]I live in a major US city. I have not met any 9-10 through SA. [/QUOTE]Actually, this is a fair point. I was on SA for 1. 5 years, and I used it quite actively in at least 9 cities, and I never met a 9 on SA. There were some 9's based on their pictures, but I couldn't get a meetup with most of them, but I did get a meetup with a few and they were not 9's in person. So, I fell for the photoshop. I don't understand why women exaggerate their beauty that much, as it only leads to disappointment when the face-to-face meetup occurs, but I digress.
I guess the 9's don't need to use SA. I think most 9's that are looking for money will just marry a rich guy.
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2486934]
I'm thinking about telling the girls that I am renting this place using AirBnB.
[/QUOTE]Airbnb maybe a better choice. Have you checked the price? I just checked and all the prices I saw are less than $900 for a month.
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[QUOTE=Nounce;2486955]Airbnb maybe a better choice. Have you checked the price? I just checked and all the prices I saw are less than $900 for a month.[/QUOTE]Thanks for checking, Nounce. Yeah, I poked around AirBnB too. I actually used AirBnB a few times in China, and I liked it. No ID is required. You just pay them and then you get the passcode to the keypad of their unit. However, in China, there's the concern of hidden video cameras. Believe it or not, the property owners believe that it's their right to spy on guests, to make sure nothing is getting stolen or damaged.
However, today, I struck a deal with the landlord. I asked if we could do this without a lease, and she uses her name on the utility bills and I reimburse her. I told her that I didn't want my name associated with the place at all. In exchange, I told her that I would always pay rent 3 months in advance. She was still uneasy about this arrangement, and then I offered to pay an additional $150 per month, and bang, she agreed. So, rent is now $1500 per month instead of $1350.
So, I now have one arrangement for $1200 per month, and it looks like I'll have another arrangement for $500 per month. When I include rent, the cost of maintaining two arrangements will be $3200 per month. Not great, not bad.
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2486883]Any of you guys keep an extra apartment to use as a love shack? I'm about to rent an apartment (I verbally agreed yesterday, but haven't signed anything yet).
It looks like (fingers crossed) that I'll be maintaining two arrangements actively. I did the math, and the rent on the apartment ($1400 per month) is going to cost significantly more than using a hotel (tough to estimate monthly hotel cost due to unknown number of meetups, but the cost is in the ballpark of $800 to $1600 per month but probably closer to $800 for most months).
I'm willing to pay the extra cost of having a love shack so that I don't have to deal with hotels all the time. Especially the constraints, such as checking in after 2 pm and then having to reappear the next morning to "check out. " Of course, I could check out early, but if I always do this, then they'll probably think I'm doing something illicit. Plus, I hate dealing with the hassle of sneaking girls into hotels. And there's also the hassle of having to keep changing and using different hotels all the time. Finally, just want a place to chill.
Any of you guys see downsides to this, other than money? A friend of mine had a love shack, but his wife found out somehow. So, that's also a drawback.[/QUOTE]What is a minimum duration of a rental contract? 6 months? A year? The costs should not be compared not just on a monthly basis but for the duration of the contract. If you are traveling, or if Corona hits China again and can't meet, or having a tough and dry month for some reason. Whatever it may be. You are still on the hook for paying the rent. So, the economics make sense only if you have a steady stream of sugar babes to justify the rent and occupancy.
Wow, $1400 for a monthly rent sounds expensive in China, not any different than it is most major US cities. I guess it is because you are in Beijing? With China's per capita income being one eighth of what it is here, I would have thought rents would be much cheaper but it doesn't seem like it.
If you are meeting a girl (s) in this rental place for say 4 times a week, each for 2 or 3 hours, that is roughly 10 hours spent a week in this place. And you have to assume you will spend that much time with this girl week in week out. Essentially, you need this place for 1/15 of a week, I. E. 7% occupancy. I would consider going down the price if possible. It doesn't have to be Marriott quality rental place, Supermotel would do.
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Valentina Part 1 - Long
Here is a previously unpublished story from last summer. Early in my SA career. 4th girl in the series as I recall. I hope you find this entertaining. There are a few primary thoughts here:
1. SA can be amazing. This was a once in a lifetime experience I could not do without SA.
2. Some girls truly CAN fake affection like nobodies business. In the end this girl totally used me and I was out about $2500 and some heartache.
3. I wouldn't trade it for anything, despite how it turned out in the end.
Although this story ends very badly, its peak is amongst the highests highs I have ever experienced; followed by the most crushing defeat, as she stomped on my heart in spike heels. A good lesson for me about becoming too attached. And a good lesson for all of us that a pretty girl can take serious advantage of you. But it was all worth it. So let me take you through it as I experienced it -- not knowing it would have an untimely demise.
About 6 weeks prior to my trip to BA, I met this smoking hot girl on Seeking Arrangement. Her name is Valentina and she is of Peruvian descent but lives in Argentina (with her mom and dad -- she is only 20). We hit it off super fast because she speaks fluent English. Taught herself from age 17 till today. And so all the light banter and flirting totally works. She looks great in pictures, but waaaay better in person. And when she laughs? Wowza!
Anyhow we got to texting back and forth daily, during the weeks before my trip, and at some times I was spending pretty much my whole day "talking" with her. This is actually a really good thing with an SA girl for a few reasons -- one, hookers won't text with you for weeks on end; and two, by the time you meet you feel like old friends.
Without getting explicit, during our testing, she dropped some pretty good hints that sex was on the menu. And at some point I broached dollars loosely and she gave a figure that was very manageable. So we put that behind us and did not discuss again until the very last hour we were together.
So after just about cumming in anticipation, I finally met my girl. We agreed to meet at a waterfront restaurant on the pier in Buenos Aires in a place called Puerto Madera. I was a few minutes late and she was standing outside doing a video chat. Super pretty girl. She was wearing the torn jeans from one of her pictures that I had told her I liked. I also told her subtly that I liked her lips natural and she was paying attention, because she never wore the bright red stuff she often does, that I hate so much. Clever girl!
Lunch was as you might expect from a first date. We have a fun time, but clearly are just taking the first tentative steps in a relationship. This is soooooo different from hookers. I'd experienced it with Maria (one of my early SA dates in LA) and here it was all over again. I had to be myself but at the same time win her over. Fortunately she loves my sense of humor and I had her laughing most of the lunch.
At lunch we find how just compatible we are -- we both drink gin and tonics and we both start to order the same meal (I change so we have something different) Later we test this to see if one of us is faking it; but sure enough, every meal, we independently choose the same thing. It was kinda spooky actually.
After lunch, we decide to stroll the wharf. Again like a date. Just side by side and then suddenly hand in hand not even knowing who initiated. Super comfortable and getting better by the minute. We stop for another G&T and as we socially lubricate, it just gets better and better. Fortunately I don't get to the point of thinking "how do I suggest we go fuck?" because she initiates as we are strolling, with "Babe, I'm tired. Let's go back to the hotel. " Yeah. You bet! And we grab a cab.
Back in the room it's totally comfortable. We kiss deeply and passionately and roll around on the bed a bit fully clothed. The next bit is a bit escortish when she says "you want to shower first or me" but I roll with it and we both shower independently. As I am headed to the shower, she asks what music I want and I say whatever you like best babe -- let's do YOUR music. And she puts on stripper music -- I mean the really explicit stuff -- "going to hit that pussy *****" - that kinda thing. I laugh out loud and say my favorite. I mean who doesn't like fucking to that. She says it's American Hip Hop! And I tell her, "No, babe, it's stripper music," and it's her turn to laugh. She loves being naughty.
Back on the bed and back to the kissing. She LOVES to give head so we are pretty quickly on to that. She likes to jam it in and out, where it hits the back of her throat and she lets out a little cry each time, mixed with moans. It turns out this is a great source of sexual satisfaction for her, as I learn later.
In tune with her explicit stripper music, she'd told me via text a couple weeks back that she was going to twerk for me. Kinda kidding around. Well no lie. After some spectacular head, she still has on her lacy bra and stripper thong and she positions herself with her head facing the foot of the bed and doggie-style ass my direction and totally brings it. Ass pumping twerking queen! Very, very sexy. Makes me want to fuck her bad. So I do.
But first, I go down on her instead. Get her pretty sloppy and she has this way of clamping her fists closed when she hits mini Os that is very cute (I learn later that she can only truly get off by fucking or having dick in her mouth. This is unusual but just how she is wired.) And I'm not complaining.
Then there is a lot more blowjob. She loves this, no lie. And thanks to my prior 5 cuties that week in Sao Paulo, I have stamina to spare. So we fuck in Mish for a long time. With plenty of kissing even though she is short. The fit is great and I think I am going to cum several times. But no. So off comes the condom, for a strong CIM finish. Of course, swallow with a smile. Ah, my new favorite girlfriend.
She has to go to her Mom's birthday at 730 -- it's about 530 by now. So we take a spectacular nap. You can tell she is totally spent because she falls asleep naked on her face. Her ass is just about perfect. Maybe not Fortune perfect (Diva girl, best ass in the world bar none) but top 5. I could barely bear to look at her, she was so beautiful sleeping.
Eventually we wake from our slumber and off she goes. Ever the gentleman, I walk her to her Uber a few blocks away (in BA Uber has pickup points — not door to door). As we part, we make plans to meet up the next morning. But that's in Part 2 stayed tuned as one of the most epic nights of my life is coming up!
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[QUOTE=Steve9696;2487083]Here is a previously unpublished story from last summer. [/QUOTE]Steve, your job must require strong writing skills. IMHO, you're one of the best writers on ISG.
[QUOTE=Pessimist;2487051]What is a minimum duration of a rental contract? 6 months? A year? The costs should not be compared not just on a monthly basis but for the duration of the contract. If you are traveling, or if Corona hits China again and can't meet, or having a tough and dry month for some reason. Whatever it may be. You are still on the hook for paying the rent. So, the economics make sense only if you have a steady stream of sugar babes to justify the rent and occupancy.
Wow, $1400 for a monthly rent sounds expensive in China, not any different than it is most major US cities. I guess it is because you are in Beijing? With China's per capita income being one eighth of what it is here, I would have thought rents would be much cheaper but it doesn't seem like it.
If you are meeting a girl (s) in this rental place for say 4 times a week, each for 2 or 3 hours, that is roughly 10 hours spent a week in this place. And you have to assume you will spend that much time with this girl week in week out. Essentially, you need this place for 1/15 of a week, I. E. 7% occupancy. I would consider going down the price if possible. It doesn't have to be Marriott quality rental place, Supermotel would do.[/QUOTE]Pessimist, I sincerely appreciate your comments and suggestions. I found this place through informal channels, which is common in China because real estate agents get way too huge a cut, something like double typical commissions that you'd find in the USA. Using the informal channels doesn't benefit the renter (me) that much because the home owner is supposed to pay the agent cost. Therefore, when a home owner can find a renter on their own, they are usually very keen on trying to seal the deal so they can avoid paying an agent.
So, here is what I was able to negotiate.
(1) I rent for 3 months at a time. This just means that I pay 3 months in advance. I only have to give one month's notice that I am done. So, the shortest duration is 3 months as long as I tell the owner that I'm moving out before December. Every time I renew, I am only tacking on 3 more months. To my surprise, the owner (a she) had very little problem with this. Normally, the minimum lease length is one year. My guess is that she finds it pretty easy to find renters.
(2) We do this without a formal lease agreement. This is actually common in China. Renters usually pay three months rent in advance, so home owners don't bear that much risk. I don't know of a single person who has a formal lease arrangement for more than one year. In the first year, there usually is a formal lease simply because an agent is involved. But after that first least is up, the renter and owner just continue without an agent and formal lease. I did the same when I lived in Beijing. After the first year lease was up, I just continued to live in my apartment, always paying 3 months rent in advance, without a lease.
(3) The owner pays for my utilities and I just reimburse her.
Originally, I only pitched (1) and (2), and after some negotiation, we agreed on $1285 per month (I previously stated $1400, but my exchange rate calculation was off). Her listing price was $1570 per month, and so I was able to get her to come down quite a bit. She actually showed me her lease agreement with her current tenant and it showed a rent of $1430 per month, and given that the rental market took a bit of hit this year, I felt she should be charging me a lower rent, not a higher rent. I think one reason she finally agreed to the $1285 is because I'm a foreigner. This may be a generalization, but in China, I feel like home owners prefer renting to foreigners because we are easy. We rarely complain and we rarely ask for anything and we rarely destroy property. The other thing is that I told her that it would only be me. No kids or pets.
Then, I remembered that I had to sign up for utilities, and so I asked her to do that for me and that I'd just reimburse her. To my surprise, this put her off. She said that she's never done this for any tenant before, and she's too busy to do stuff like this. However, I simply didn't want my name on anything. So, I pressed the issue. I said I just needed heat and electricity, I did not need cable, phone, or internet. Then she said she should charge me what her current tenant pays in rent. And I said it's a done deal if you include internet too. She said deal. So, I'm paying $1430 per month. Yeah, I admit that I went up too high by adding $145 per month, but I felt like having an opportunity to have a place to myself while INCOGNITO was too good a thing to lose in the final moments of our negotiations.
And yes, rent in Shanghai and Beijing is VERY high. For example, a decent 3 bedroom apartment that is just outside the main downtown area is around $4000 per month. My new place is a 1 bedroom unit, outside the main downtown area, and the unit is pretty nice. I might actually work there sometimes.
And yes, the occupancy rate will be very low, even if I go there and just work sometimes. So, we will see if I feel it's worth it. With my current arrangement, it's just stressful having to find different hotels all the time, and arguing about who books the room all the time. We don't want to become regulars at any hotel, and she doesn't want so many hotel bookings on her "official" record, and every time I book a hotel the police is automatically notified per China policy. And then there's the hassle of having to register guests. Also, hotels give me a VERY tight window, because I cannot check in until after 2 pm and I have to be home for dinner usually by about 5 pm or 6 pm, and then I have to go to the hotel the next morning to "check out. " Of course, I could check out after a few hours, but that would only raise eyebrows. Sure, there are ST hotels, but technically it's illegal for foreigners to use them based on recent regulations, and besides, foreigners in ST hotels also often raises eyebrows and suspicions, especially when the foreigner is a middle-aged American and his "girlfriend" is Chinese who is half his age.
But all in all, this love shack is going to cost me a lot. I would not have done it if it wasn't for the fact that I am likely to have another arrangement. Plus, I'm also thinking about the many outcall pros that I can also bring back to the love shack. If I were only going to use the love shack for one arrangement, there's no way I'd do it.
Another option is that I let my GF find a cheap place of her own and I pay her rent. (She currently shares a place with someone, which is common in Shanghai given the high rent.) But fuck that. I'd be locked into a one year commitment. And I'll also go crazy wondering if she's fucking other guys at her place. And, I wouldn't be able to use the place for my other arrangement and for outcall pros.
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2487257]Steve, your job must require strong writing skills. IMHO, you're one of the best writers on ISG.
So, here is what I was able to negotiate.
(1) I rent for 3 months at a time. This just means that I pay 3 months in advance. I only have to give one month's notice that I am done. So, the shortest duration is 3 months as long as I tell the owner that I'm moving out before December. Every time I renew, I am only tacking on 3 more months. To my surprise, the owner (a she) had very little problem with this. Normally, the minimum lease length is one year. My guess is that she finds it pretty easy to find renters.
(2) We do this without a formal lease agreement. This is actually common in China. Renters usually pay three months rent in advance, so home owners don't bear that much risk. I don't know of a single person who has a formal lease arrangement for more than one year. In the first year, there usually is a formal lease simply because an agent is involved. But after that first least is up, the renter and owner just continue without an agent and formal lease. I did the same when I lived in Beijing. After the first year lease was up, I just continued to live in my apartment, always paying 3 months rent in advance, without a lease.
(3) The owner pays for my utilities and I just reimburse her..[/QUOTE]Flawlessly logical. You have to have enough money to play in this game. Being cheap can cost you in the end. So, what sounds like a mongers paradise is really dodging the eyes and ears of a privacy free society. How do people live under the control and watchful eyes of the authorities? I wonder if people will continue to tolerate this in the long run. I suppose if you never do anything against the law, it will not affect you, but I bristle at the way a government can control my actions, my thoughts, and my morality.
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My new landlord
Just an interesting tidbit. The new landlord of my love shack is super hot. About 5 foot 6, and thin athletic body. Single divorced mom. Probably late 30's. And she's probably at least twice as rich as me, based on what she divulged regarding the other units that she owns (in China, you can only buy your first property with 30% down payment, for the next property that you buy, the minimum down payment amount is something like 50%, and for the third unit, it's like 70%, etc. , and this is to prevent a real estate bubble. She said my apartment is the smallest place that she owns.).
A few nights ago, after I saw her place for the first time, we were texting quite a lot. It started with texting about specific details about the unit, and negotiating about rent and stuff like that. But then it somehow turned personal. She actually told me she wants to have another kid and is looking for Mr. Right. And then she said we should do lunch sometime. I'm like, WTF just happened? The next day, she started being formal again and only texting about the unit.
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[QUOTE=Akibono;2487266]Flawlessly logical. You have to have enough money to play in this game. Being cheap can cost you in the end. So, what sounds like a mongers paradise is really dodging the eyes and ears of a privacy free society. How do people live under the control and watchful eyes of the authorities? I wonder if people will continue to tolerate this in the long run. I suppose if you never do anything against the law, it will not affect you, but I bristle at the way a government can control my actions, my thoughts, and my morality.[/QUOTE]Our freedoms are disappearing all the time. China is now installing facial recognition cameras everywhere. The government says that if citizens have nothing to hide, then we shouldn't give a shit about losing our privacy and civil liberties. I obviously have issues with this.
But if there were any pushback from Chinese citizens, it disappeared this year after the government took away all of our privacy due to the coronavirus, and it actually worked. China is now normal again, and the virus is now not even a bad memory but almost a forgotten memory. Even the Americans that live in Shanghai, that I talk to, all now agree that it's great to live in a communist country.
But this is obviously the view of one guy on the streets of Shanghai. Others have other views obviously.
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2487276]Our freedoms are disappearing all the time. China is now installing facial recognition cameras everywhere. The government says that if citizens have nothing to hide, then we shouldn't give a shit about losing our privacy and civil liberties. I obviously have issues with this.
But if there were any pushback from Chinese citizens, it disappeared this year after the government took away all of our privacy due to the coronavirus, and it actually worked. China is now normal again, and the virus is now not even a bad memory but almost a forgotten memory. Even the Americans that live in Shanghai, that I talk to, all now agree that it's great to live in a communist country.
But this is obviously the view of one guy on the streets of Shanghai. Others have other views obviously.[/QUOTE]Given the disasterous response in the USA and EU, I can understand that China may be viewed as a success. But the wheel turns. If an effective vaccine is developed, covid will swiftly fade away, but not completely. You can create an efficient society by treating people like widgets to be optimized in every way. We talk about the chilling influence of censorship, but that is nothing compared to China where you can be snatched off the street and jailed for bad thoughts. The system is designed for spectacular success and failure. It is not designed for stability which is why the government thinks it needs so much control. Frankly, I am surprised that they do not fear their foreign students being corrupted.
There seems to be a lot of angry people on SA. I am often surprised by the rudeness. I wonder if it is harder for women than us guys. They probably get hit on by a bunch of assholes, but what do they expect from such a site. Just like the 9's and 10's do not have to be on the site, the Mr. Gray's are not there either. I am beginning to see the categories of people. Most are not worth my time. I think the US is a poor hunting ground. People's expectations are entirely unrealistic. Still hunting for the elusive diamond.
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2487273]Just an interesting tidbit. The new landlord of my love shack is super hot. About 5 foot 6, and thin athletic body. Single divorced mom. Probably late 30's. And she's probably at least twice as rich as me, based on what she divulged regarding the other units that she owns (in China, you can only buy your first property with 30% down payment, for the next property that you buy, the minimum down payment amount is something like 50%, and for the third unit, it's like 70%, etc. , and this is to prevent a real estate bubble. She said my apartment is the smallest place that she owns.).
A few nights ago, after I saw her place for the first time, we were texting quite a lot. It started with texting about specific details about the unit, and negotiating about rent and stuff like that. But then it somehow turned personal. She actually told me she wants to have another kid and is looking for Mr. Right. And then she said we should do lunch sometime. I'm like, WTF just happened? The next day, she started being formal again and only texting about the unit.[/QUOTE]She sounds like a dragon lady. Business sharp and very manipulative. She probably has sized you up already. China has a large underground market. Speculators borrow under the table to meet the down payment requirements. Would not be surprised that her money comes from people who got it through corruption. Thus, they recycle (launder) the money through people like your landlord. Both benefits. You have to ask yourself how a women would have access to such funds. Probably got it by her ex. Lover (divorce is rare and she would not get his property). Unless it is family wealth, you do not earn such money. Any speculator has earned large sums in the last 10 years. You are correct. At some time, the music stops. Thanks for your insight. It is hard to understand the situation by reading the papers.
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Stay in Touch?
Do any of you stay in touch with ex Babies? I generally try to keep in touch with girls, tho sometimes it fades. I just sent Thifany happy birthday wishes (two days late) and asked her if it was good. She said yes, but not as much fun as when I was in London with you! Ah, surely it's not as fond a memory for her as it was for me but still nice to hear (she turned 23 in London on our second night together two years ago).
And two of my Vegas girls I am still in touch with, one you would count even as a friend. Both have said they'the like to see me and Alexa even said she'the fly in from Vegas. My London fave remains in touch but I can feel some fade there. I mean we only had the five hours together.
I really develop a fondness for these girls even if we only spent a few hours together. Other than Valentina I really do wish them well and hope for the best for them. What about you? Stay in touch with your exes?
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I do not keep contacting ex-girls, if that is what "stay in touch" implies. Of course, I did not throw away their contact details and still have the means to contact them in future (assuming they did not change their phone# - but many of them do). The thing is that even a simple action such as sending Hi will suggest you want to see them again, will want to revive an arrangement. If you simply send Hi and a few back and forth messages and then there is no follow up on your part to see them again (and most importantly from their pov, to give them some compensation for their time), they will be pis$ed and rightfully so. The reality is that these were not your girlfriends. It was a monetary transaction, if you strip away all the niceties. If they wanted to be in a relationship with you, to be your girlfriends, they would have told you so and given free sessions. Making contact randomly and with no follow up on the money part is a waste of time from their pov. Remember too, some of them may have moved on and be in a genuine relationship by now and if your message is seen by her current BF by accident, could be a serious problem for her. She was ready for arrangement at the time she did have an arrangement in the past. Until you know for sure that she is again ready to receive text messages that hint at anything about her past, in my view, it is inappropriate to send messages.
In these tough times, it is OK to contact a girl if you want to send a quick gift to help out. If that is what you want to do. I bet that will be appreciated by the girl. But simply pining the girl and reminiscing about good times of the past will do nothing. To you, the sex was the good memory, to her the money received was the good memory.
I have contacted girls after a year or longer, after the arrangement cooled off for a while. That is because I most definitely wanted to see her one more time, and assess her situation. But these have to be done very carefully because I do not want to get her into trouble. So, if I am contacting a girl after a year of dormancy, the first text is always very innocuous "Hi, how have you been, hope all is well with you". Will take a few back and forth messages and to get a measure of her tone before I come out with my intent. If the girl has no interest, she will blow me off and not even reply. Of course these are much easier to do if the girl is still active on SA and the messages happen on the SA site; then I know she is still in the market.
Finally, I keep my emotions strictly separated from my amoral activities. I am married and seek only sexual gratification in these encounters, be it on SA or visits to FKKs or other sites in US or strip club visits in the past. Developing any sort of emotional ties with these girls only leads to disasters. Strictly verboten in my view, unless you really are hoping to convert a specific SB arrangement into a GF relationship.
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[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2486869]Last Saturday I met up with my slash part time model in MTY. We go have a great dinner and drinks at my favorite Steak House. We Get home all that plus anal. We wake up and have sex again. Finally we get up take showers off to the SPA, great experience. Get home I had bought some toys. We break them out. She sticks one in her ass and we go at it for 1 hour Sunday afternoon. All for $200 to her. Spa $150 and Dinner was $150, but trust me we got our money worth at the restaurant.[/QUOTE]That's amazing how you can get your sb for so cheap. I am planning my first trip (4 day weekend trip) in mid October to MTY. I contacted a few chics on SA's Monterrey. Two responded. I followed your price guideline and offered one chic 200 usd for 24 hours and she laughed me off. Another chic asked for 500 usd for 24 hours. I countered with 200 usd for 24 hours and she laughed me off.
So I am starting to think that 500 usd for 24 hours is the market rate for a slim and decent looking 20's sb in Monterrey. This price is still a bargain in comparison with the price in a major US city. This price is still cheaper than Regioscorsts.
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[QUOTE=Akibono;2487328]
There seems to be a lot of angry people on SA. I am often surprised by the rudeness. I wonder if it is harder for women than us guys. They probably get hit on by a bunch of assholes, but what do they expect from such a site. [/QUOTE]When I was in the states, I asked some of my SBs about the other SDs on SA. And yep, they said that most SDs are assholes. Because SDs are the "buyers", they feel like they are entitled to be assholes. A few pages back, I mentioned that to have successful arrangements from SA, you just need to be nice, pay the market price, and sometimes even be fun. That's all. This puts us into a small minority among SDs.
For me, if anyone is rude to me on SA, I just brush it off and move on. As it has been mentioned on many occasions on here, finding the arrangement that you want, and with who you want, takes a LOT of time on SA. It's almost like a part time job.
[QUOTE=Akibono;2487333]She sounds like a dragon lady. Business sharp and very manipulative. She probably has sized you up already. China has a large underground market. Speculators borrow under the table to meet the down payment requirements. Would not be surprised that her money comes from people who got it through corruption. Thus, they recycle (launder) the money through people like your landlord. Both benefits. You have to ask yourself how a women would have access to such funds. Probably got it by her ex. Lover (divorce is rare and she would not get his property). Unless it is family wealth, you do not earn such money. [/QUOTE]She said she's a see-level exec of a small firm in which she's also a large shareholder. I kind of believe her, only because her English is pretty decent. I know this is a stupid reason to believe someone, but given that she can speak decent English suggests that she's decently educated. But the key is to not fuck this up by trying to hook up with her. If I tried to bed her and I end up failing or succeeding, then what happens to my apartment that I'm going to rent from her? I'm no longer going to allow our chats to meander into any kind of personal space. We texted a bunch of times yesterday about my moving in date, such as discussing what I need in terms of furnishings, about payment schedule, etc. , and at one point she said she's happy to have a handsome tenant and my response to her was, "thanks, please make sure the unit is thoroughly clean before I move in, especially the kitchen and bathroom, and make sure there is no trash that I need to take out. " She replied, "OK" and that was that.
[QUOTE=Steve9696;2487405]Do any of you stay in touch with ex Babies?
[/QUOTE]I am still in touch with one. The main reasons why I stay in touch with her is because (1) she is very smart and (2) we eventually became pretty good friends when we were in our arrangement. There were times we would just meet for a beer after work. She graduated from an Ivy and she teased me because I graduated from a public university. But she majored in something stupid (I think it was astronomy), which is why she eventually ended up on SA. The last time I saw her, we watched one of the Presidential debates between Trump and Hilary, and then we fucked, and then the next day she moved from SF to NY. So, we've been in touch for 4 years via texting. Our text chats are actual conversations. We rarely discuss SA and our previous arrangement. We just talk about current events and our current lives. I even asked her for some advice on a couple of occasions, and I recently asked her for some advice regarding my current arrangement.
But I think staying in touch with ex SBs is just like staying in touch with ex GFs. It can sometimes happen, but it's rare.
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2487276] Even the Americans that live in Shanghai, that I talk to, all now agree that it's great to live in a communist country.
But this is obviously the view of one guy on the streets of Shanghai. Others have other views obviously.[/QUOTE]I think it is a view shared by many who have visited China.
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[QUOTE=Nounce;2487557]I think it is a view shared by many who have visited China.[/QUOTE]Indeed, just as long as you can return to the good ole USA at a moments notice! 😂.
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2487547]When I was in the states, I asked some of my SBs about the other SDs on SA. And yep, they said that most SDs are assholes. Because SDs are the "buyers", they feel like they are entitled to be assholes. A few pages back, I mentioned that to have successful arrangements from SA, you just need to be nice, pay the market price, and sometimes even be fun. That's all. This puts us into a small minority among SDs.
For me, if anyone is rude to me on SA, I just brush it off and move on. As it has been mentioned on many occasions on here, finding the arrangement that you want, and with who you want, takes a LOT of time on SA. It's almost like a part time job..[/QUOTE]I have no doubt that many SDs are not so nice. Some of them may also be quite nice. Some SDs are posting here and they don't appear to be assholes, and I don't think they are the exceptions. I think being SDs, we have an asymmetric disadvantage in terms of knowledge about other SDs. We know a lot of SBs but hardly any other SDs (unless you have a friend who is also another SD). In fact, SBs may know other SBs but SDs hardly know many SDs. I say this because quite a few young women even seem to know about SA and other SB sites from their friends and get encouraged to join it from their friends. On the other hand, many SDs are older, married, in respectable jobs and will never admit to any of their peers that they are doing this. They keep this part of their life quiet and hidden.
Anyway, we don't know how other SDs behave. And the girls have an incentive to lie. By playing up how nice you are and how other guys are assholes, they try to boost your ego. That is one more way to entice.
Not saying they always lie, but they have an incentive.
And BTW, there are tons of scammer girls on SA. My own success ratio is in single digits at best. (If any one claims their hit ratio is 50% or 70%, they are lying or they must be looking like Ryan Gosling with the money of Jeff Bezos. Or perhaps they relax their spec on age / body type / ethnicity / looks etc). If I hit up 100 girls, I may eventually get to fuck a few. But that is not the worst of it. For every girl that I had sex with, there were at least twice as many or perhaps 4 times as many that tried to swindle money with some sob story, or asking me to send a $100 gift "to prove I am real" or some other garbage like that.
My point? Guys may be assholes, girls may be swindlers. This is par for the course on SA.
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[QUOTE=Steve9696;2487405]I really develop a fondness for these girls even if we only spent a few hours together. Other than Valentina I really do wish them well and hope for the best for them. What about you? Stay in touch with your exes?[/QUOTE]LOL. Yes, I often will get back with them, see how hot they are, have great sex with them, and then ask why I broke up with them. Then right after, I remember why broke up with them and do it again.
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2487547]She said she's a see-level exec of a small firm in which she's also a large shareholder. I kind of believe her, only because her English is pretty decent. I know this is a stupid reason to believe someone, but given that she can speak decent English suggests that she's decently educated. But the key is to not fuck this up by trying to hook up with her. If I tried to bed her and I end up failing or succeeding, then what happens to my apartment that I'm going to rent from her? I'm no longer going to allow our chats to meander into any kind of personal space. We texted a bunch of times yesterday about my moving in date, such as discussing what I need in terms of furnishings, about payment schedule, etc. , and at one point she said she's happy to have a handsome tenant and my response to her was, "thanks, please make sure the unit is thoroughly clean before I move in, especially the kitchen and bathroom, and make sure there is no trash that I need to take out. " She replied, "OK" and that was that..[/QUOTE]Smart move. The key to life is making good decisions and understanding all the things that can go wrong. I never create situations with too many moving parts. You can never keep track of everything and eventually you make a mistake. That is the problem with chronic liars. Having the stronger hand is an advantage and bedding her would be a weak hand. If she really wanted you, she will chase and then you can carefully dictate the terms. Being able to walk away is always a good thing. How do you feel about being a gigolo? Does anyone still use that term?
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I need advice
I'm about to rent an apartment that I will use as a love shack.
Originally, my plan was the following. Each time my SB and I use it, I was going to tell her that I am renting it on AirBNB for 2-3 hours, at $15 an hour. However, I now realize that this lie will unravel for two reasons.
First, I will always have the key card to enter the building, and I will always have a key to the apartment room, on me. Sure, I could tell her that I picked up the card and keys just before I met up with her, but then this eliminates spontaneous sex. For example, what if we decide to spend the day having a picnic, and in the middle of it she says let's have sex. Then, she will expect me call or text the apartment owner to arrange for us to go pick up the card and key from him, when I already have them on me.
Second, and this is the main problem, the building security guards are eventually going to know that I actually am renting the place. So, I will become a familiar face, and so the SB will eventually just get a sense, after a couple of months, that I am actually renting the place.
So, what should I tell her?
I obviously cannot tell her that I am renting the place, because then she will want to move into it, and I don't want her fucking other guys in my apartment, and, more importantly, I want to use the love shack for meet my other SB and to meet outcall pros.
I also cannot tell her that this is my friend's apartment and he's letting me borrow it, because I don't feel like spending money to make it look like someone else lives there. For example, I'd have to buy clothes, shoes, luggage, laptop, sports equipment, office supplies, food, toiletries, etc. Lived-in apartments have a lot of crap in it. This apartment will have almost nothing in it.
On a related note, I cannot say that it's my friend's apartment but it's not rented yet and so he's letting me use it. Apartments do not go un-rented for long in Shanghai, so this is simply an implausible lie.
Please advise. TIA.
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2487785]I'm about to rent an apartment that I will use as a love shack.
Please advise. TIA.[/QUOTE]I used to work for a company that had rented / owned (not sure) a few apartments near the office; they could be borrowed by employees who lived far away and didn't want to go home that night.
Although I never used those apartments myself, it wouldn't be a far stretch to say that, it's against company policy, to let others permanently live in the apartment. You don't want the security guard to rat you out to your company, that you have a GF. Living there permanently. Also since not that many people are currently using this company benefit, you are often able to borrow the key from HR. I'm sure you could spin something like that.
Good luck.
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2487785]I'm about to rent an apartment that I will use as a love shack.
Originally, my plan was the following. Each time my SB and I use it, I was going to tell her that I am renting it on AirBNB for 2-3 hours, at $15 an hour. However, I now realize that this lie will unravel for two reasons.
First, I will always have the key card to enter the building, and I will always have a key to the apartment room, on me. Sure, I could tell her that I picked up the card and keys just before I met up with her, but then this eliminates spontaneous sex. For example, what if we decide to spend the day having a picnic, and in the middle of it she says let's have sex. Then, she will expect me call or text the apartment owner to arrange for us to go pick up the card and key from him, when I already have them on me.
Second, and this is the main problem, the building security guards are eventually going to know that I actually am renting the place. So, I will become a familiar face, and so the SB will eventually just get a sense, after a couple of months, that I am actually renting the place.
So, what should I tell her?
I obviously cannot tell her that I am renting the place, because then she will want to move into it, and I don't want her fucking other guys in my apartment, and, more importantly, I want to use the love shack for meet my other SB and to meet outcall pros..[/QUOTE]This is the issue with renting long term. Sooner or later something will go wrong, especially if you are doing multiple girls. I wish I had an answer.
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2487785]I'm about to rent an apartment that I will use as a love shack.
Originally, my plan was the following. Each time my SB and I use it, I was going to tell her that I am renting it on AirBNB for 2-3 hours, at $15 an hour. However, I now realize that this lie will unravel for two reasons.
First, I will always have the key card to enter the building, and I will always have a key to the apartment room, on me. Sure, I could tell her that I picked up the card and keys just before I met up with her, but then this eliminates spontaneous sex. For example, what if we decide to spend the day having a picnic, and in the middle of it she says let's have sex. Then, she will expect me call or text the apartment owner to arrange for us to go pick up the card and key from him, when I already have them on me.
Second, and this is the main problem, the building security guards are eventually going to know that I actually am renting the place. So, I will become a familiar face, and so the SB will eventually just get a sense, after a couple of months, that I am actually renting the place.
So, what should I tell her?
I obviously cannot tell her that I am renting the place, because then she will want to move into it, and I don't want her fucking other guys in my apartment, and, more importantly, I want to use the love shack for meet my other SB and to meet outcall pros..[/QUOTE]Can't help but think you're wayyyyy overthinking all of this. Why not just have them at your place? If not, why not just have them at the new apartment. If they ask to move in say hell no?
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2487785]I'm about to rent an apartment that I will use as a love shack.
Originally, my plan was the following. Each time my SB and I use it, I was going to tell her that I am renting it on AirBNB for 2-3 hours, at $15 an hour. However, I now realize that this lie will unravel for two reasons.
First, I will always have the key card to enter the building, and I will always have a key to the apartment room, on me. Sure, I could tell her that I picked up the card and keys just before I met up with her, but then this eliminates spontaneous sex. For example, what if we decide to spend the day having a picnic, and in the middle of it she says let's have sex. Then, she will expect me call or text the apartment owner to arrange for us to go pick up the card and key from him, when I already have them on me.
Second, and this is the main problem, the building security guards are eventually going to know that I actually am renting the place. So, I will become a familiar face, and so the SB will eventually just get a sense, after a couple of months, that I am actually renting the place.
So, what should I tell her?
I obviously cannot tell her that I am renting the place, because then she will want to move into it, and I don't want her fucking other guys in my apartment, and, more importantly, I want to use the love shack for meet my other SB and to meet outcall pros.[/QUOTE]Say it belongs to your business / employer and you have access when clients are not using it.
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Wow, thanks guys for the quick responses! Much appreciated!
[QUOTE=NightLife17;2487791]I used to work for a company that had rented / owned (not sure) a few apartments near the office; they could be borrowed by employees who lived far away and didn't want to go home that night.
Although I never used those apartments myself, it wouldn't be a far stretch to say that, it's against company policy, to let others permanently live in the apartment. You don't want the security guard to rat you out to your company, that you have a GF. Living there permanently. Also since not that many people are currently using this company benefit, you are often able to borrow the key from HR. I'm sure you could spin something like that.
Good luck.[/QUOTE]I cannot believe that I didn't think of this idea. Thanks, man. I'll probably use a variation of this.
[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2487793]This is the issue with renting long term. Sooner or later something will go wrong, especially if you are doing multiple girls. I wish I had an answer.[/QUOTE]Yeah, I'm actually stressed out about this. I only know one other person that did this, and eventually he got caught.
[QUOTE=Rextor;2487798]Can't help but think you're wayyyyy overthinking all of this. Why not just have them at your place? If not, why not just have them at the new apartment. If they ask to move in say hell no?[/QUOTE]Can't have them over at my place. I'm renting the new apartment exactly for this reason. And my current arrangement has become my GF. I don't want a GF, but I am tolerating it because she is hilarious and fun to be with, and plus she is smoking hot. If I tell her "hell no" then she's gone. Eventually, it will end, of course, but I'm hoping it will last as long as possible.
[QUOTE=Akibono;2487813]Say it belongs to your business / employer and you have access when clients are not using it.[/QUOTE]I cannot believe that I didn't think of this idea. Thanks, man. I'll probably use a variation of this.
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2487825]I cannot believe that I didn't think of this idea. Thanks, man. I'll probably use a variation of this.
Yeah, I'm actually stressed out about this. I only know one other person that did this, and eventually he got caught.
Can't have them over at my place. I'm renting the new apartment exactly for this reason. And my current arrangement has become my GF. I don't want a GF, but I am tolerating it because she is hilarious and fun to be with, and plus she is smoking hot. If I tell her "hell no" then she's gone. Eventually, it will end, of course, but I'm hoping it will last as long as possible.
I cannot believe that I didn't think of this idea. Thanks, man. I'll probably use a variation of this.[/QUOTE]I am more worried about the security guards saying something they should to one of my girls. Also, it just takes one neighbor to complain then you are totally screwed.
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2487825]I cannot believe that I didn't think of this idea. Thanks, man. I'll probably use a variation of this.
[/QUOTE]I think it is a good idea but I would just say something like borrowing from a friend who is locked out of China due to pandemic.
Having said the above, I would not lie if I were you because it is too easy to find out. I would not lie in a long term relationship at all except very few things like marital status or I will choose not to answer questions. There is really no damage in telling her the truth.
I don't know the Chinese legal system. My guess is that it is also illegal for her to date married man or she can be sued in civil court by the spouse. If that is the case, you will have less to fear. I would try to find out about that to have a clear picture of the consequence.
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[QUOTE=Nounce;2487833]I think it is a good idea but I would just say something like borrowing from a friend who is locked out of China due to pandemic.
Having said the above, I would not lie if I were you because it is too easy to find out. I would not lie in a long term relationship at all except very few things like marital status. There is really no damage in telling her the truth. Like the case about your marital status, I actually would stick to the original story and that is obviously understandable if she finds the truth later.
I don't know the Chinese legal system. My guess is that it is also illegal for her to date married man or she can be sued in civil court by the spouse. If that is the case, you will have less to fear. I would try to find out about that to have a clear picture of the consequence.[/QUOTE]Great advice, this is the whole idea about SA, there is no need to lie or you can just say you do not want to talk about this at the moment. If you relationship gets more serious then obviously then you will need to be more open and honest.
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[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2487827]I am more worried about the security guards saying something they should to one of my girls. Also, it just takes one neighbor to complain then you are totally screwed.[/QUOTE]Yeah, I agree. I am thinking about just using it to meet my two SBs, and don't bring any outcall pros into the apartment. My second SB is older and doesn't look like a pro. My first SB is almost half my age, but I could pass her off as my GF.
[QUOTE=Nounce;2487833]I think it is a good idea but I would just say something like borrowing from a friend who is locked out of China due to pandemic.
Having said the above, I would not lie if I were you because it is too easy to find out. I would not lie in a long term relationship at all except very few things like marital status or I will choose not to answer questions. There is really no damage in telling her the truth.
I don't know the Chinese legal system. My guess is that it is also illegal for her to date married man or she can be sued in civil court by the spouse. If that is the case, you will have less to fear. I would try to find out about that to have a clear picture of the consequence.[/QUOTE]I already confessed to her that I'm married. Extramarital affairs are illegal in China. Both of my SBs know I'm married. The second SB is married too. So yeah, I'm living in fear. But what can I do if fucking is a necessary part of my life? Sure, I can fuck in an MP, but that's even scarier, and sure, I can meet incall pros, but I'm looking for arrangements with GFs. And always using hotels is stressing me out for a variety of reasons. What would you do if you were in my situation? Any advice is appreciated.
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[QUOTE=Steve9696;2484819]So since more folks are joining this thread and much of the good primer information is way back in Jan / Feb I thought I'the write a little intro to Seeking. Hope you enjoy and it helps others on their journey. Please note that this is for guys that enjoy the whole romance and simulated girlfriend thing. If you just want to find a girl to fuck there are plenty of those also.
Seeking Arrangement opened a whole new world for me -- Sugar Baby. Sugar Daddy dating. I had gotten a taste of this with Thifany (the girl from the So Paulo Boate that I flew to London for a week). I mean SBSD is really what we were doing when I flew her to London. I paid her a very reasonable allowance for the week and we just played boyfriend and girlfriend. What fun.
I came to realize through the Thifany experience that I like more than just paid sex. And in fact I love having a girlfriend. I enjoy texting each other. I enjoy that someone cares about me (even if she's pretending -- just never tell me so!) and of course I love the complete experience of dinners and dancing and just acting like real lovers. Not transactional sex partners. And SB / SD is all about this same experience. When done properly.
So how do you do it properly? I suppose this could vary widely depending on what you are after. But I am after a girl who FEELS like a girlfriend. She's affectionate, appreciates an evening above her usual stature in life, and is able to actually enjoy herself with you. She views the allowance / gift (I. E. Money!) as a bonus. Not the only thing she is after. Any girl where I feel money is the primary motivation and she will go with anyone for a high enough price, gets kicked straight to the curb. She's got to be a girlfriend first, and benefit second.
Knowing that this is the kind of girl I want to attract (and other guys I have talked to also find this persona the most attractive) there is a set of rules you have to play by. Understand that SA is NOT AT ALL like picking up hookers. It is much more like meeting a girl into a bar and seducing her to leave with you. It's just an online bar. Sure you need money, but you also need some distance game and you need to treat her with respect. If you do, you have a chance of closing the deal. However, the moment you disrespect her, she will be gone.
Most importantly, never discuss sex or money. These things will be implied and they will be done offline. Never discuss sex or money on SA and really never discuss sex at all. As soon as you are that explicit, the kind of girl you are after will feel disrespected and ghost you in no time flat.
So start with some light chat and flirt. Your opener should be something specific to her that you read in her profile -- not something generic. And ALWAYS end every message with a question. This prompts her to respond. If you don't ask a question, she will not take the initiative -- the conversation will just die. You have to drive it -- and you drive with questions. Get her to tell you a few things about herself -- what she likes to eat, her favorite wine, dog or cat person -- It doesn't really matter-- just something that will get her to engage a bit...[/QUOTE]Hey Steve,
Great to hear tips from an OG. Have you tried SA overseas? I tried in CDMX and while It worked out overall I found myself spending tons of time contacting SBs. I'm interested in your approach of really talking at length with these women. Its sounds crass, I know, but in Mexico I was at the point where within 4 exchanges of dialogue I was asking for their WhatsApp to discuss detail $, because the effort it took to engage with these girls was so excessive. And you're suggesting expending even more effort? Wondering about pros and cons.
Also I don't know if my young age (30) and non-white skin put me out of the typical middle aged Gringo type (no offense to anyone) that some of these girls go far so they think I'm scamming / not serious.
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2487845]
I already confessed to her that I'm married. Extramarital affairs are illegal in China. Both of my SBs know I'm married. The second SB is married too.[/QUOTE]She is already a partner in crime so you don't have to worry about her. Why lie about the little stuff like who rents the apartment that can be easily proven false? It just creates other problems down the road.
Edit: I think you do need to come up with something so the SBs can't stay when you don't want them around.
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[QUOTE=Nounce;2487856]She is already a partner in crime so you don't have to worry about her. Why lie about the little stuff like who rents the apartment that can be easily proven false? It just creates other problems down the road.
Edit: I think you do need to come up with something so the SBs can't stay when you don't want them around.[/QUOTE]Yep, this is why I'm going to lie to her about my renting the apartment. If she knows I'm renting it, then she'll want to move into it, and I don't want to deal with that hassle. I know this will unravel, but my main goal it to have it unravel later than sooner. Thanks, man.
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My latest arrangement
Man, this post is going to be fucking long. Sorry.
There was a legit MP that I used to go to regularly. I've been going to it for about 6 years. Most of the masseuses at this shop look like Shrek. But man, they can give a killer massage. For the entire hour, I would either clench my teeth in pain or scream in pain, but I would feel like a million bucks afterwards. A couple of years ago, I was massaged by a skinny MILF at this place. It was just an okay massage, but I kind of liked her, so I started requesting her every time I went to this place. Then this happened:
Last September, when I arrived for my massage, I gave her a hug Hello,. To my surprise, she gave me a warm hug back, like she pressed her entire body against mine. I took that as a cue, and suddenly decided to make a pass at her, but she resisted, but I was a bit aggressive and eventually we started making out. So, for the entire hour, we just made out.
Later that night, I texted her that I liked her. She texted back that she liked me too. Then I texted, "what should we do?" And she texted back, "meet at hotel?" Wow! Why did it take me almost two fucking years to hit on her?! Anyway, luckily for me, at that time, I was friends with a pro that lived nearby. So, I asked her if I could use her apartment to fuck my new GF, the skinny MILF. This request put her off. I was a little surprised. I actually went to her place regularly, usually after the gym, to take a shower and grab a bite to eat and sometimes I would fuck her. She let me fuck her for free, because I used to be a loyal customer of hers when we knew each other in Beijing, and I helped her settle into Shanghai. But my request to use her apartment to fuck someone else put her off. But eventually, I agreed to pay her $45 each time I used her apartment, and she begrudgingly agreed. So, I started fucking the skinny MILF at my friend's apartment about twice per week, usually before her shift started, or on her days off.
But then, suddenly out of the blue, her husband moved to Shanghai. So, we had to meet during her shifts. Masseuses can do house calls. So, when we met, I had to pay for a "massage. " But that was only about $25.
With the skinny MILF, every fuck session went like this. She comes over, I tell her to take off her clothes and she does, and then she lays on the bed. I take off my clothes and then we make out, doing super heavy DFK. And then I would do some DATY and then I would stick my dick into her pussy and we would make out, super heavy DFK, for the next hour and a half, multiple positions. I always tried to take a break and chat, but she had no interest in chatting. Sometimes, when I said I needed a rest, she would climb onto me and start riding me. I sometimes tried to make small talk during our sessions, but she would just nod or grunt, and just kept fucking me. And I never have an orgasm during our sessions. This is the way that I like to fuck. I just want to fuck forever and never stop. I can pull this off because I'm circumcised, and my palms are rough from working out, and so from my many, many years of masturbating myself with my rough hands, my dick skin has almost no sensitivity. Sometimes, when I think my dick is starting to feel sensitive again, I would start whacking off regularly to toughen the skin again, and sometimes, I would drink a half can of beer to numb my dick while fucking. But I digress.
When you guys are fucking someone, do you ever have that fear that you don't know when you're going to fuck again, and so you just want to never stop fucking that person that you're with? Well, that's how she was, when she was fucking me. It was as if she was scared she'd never get laid again, and so she was trying to get laid as much as possible at that moment. But I digress again.
Anyway, from early September to early January of this year, we probably met about 20 times. Skinny MILF never asked for a dime for herself. There was one time when I gave her $150, because she mentioned that something of hers broke and she needed to replace it. I thought that was a clue to give her money, and so I did, but when she saw the money she was put off. But I insisted that she take it anyway.
Anyway, in early January, she went home for Chinese New Year.
And then, the fucking coronavirus outbreak happened. The entire country went into a super hard fucking lock-down.
In late April, when China was starting to let people travel domestically again, she came to Shanghai to collect her belongings and to take care of some things. She was only here for two days. She said that she was moving back home, because her college aged daughter was also moving back home due to colleges being shut down. I met her, but we didn't even hug or hold hands or kiss, because both of us, along with the rest of the entire country, were still living in fucking fear of the fucking virus. I was not only wearing a mask, but also a hat and swim goggles and gloves, but many people were doing this at that time, so I didn't even stand out. But I wanted to meet her so that I could give her some money. I don't remember exactly what I gave her, but it was either $300 or $450. She sincerely appreciated it.
The months go by, I ask her if she's ever coming back to Shanghai, and she keeps telling me that she's not sure.
Her daughter finally graduated from college in June or July, taking her last set of courses using Zoom, while living with her mom (skinny MILF) and dad, who was also out of a job.
Then, in August, skinny MILF told me that her entire family was going to move to Shanghai and they were all going to live together. But skinny MILF told me that she'd find a home and a job near to me.
Then, in mid-September, skinny MILF said that her husband couldn't find a job in Shanghai, and instead he found a job in Huaqiao, in Jiangsu Province, which is over an hour away from Shanghai. But skinny MILF swore to me, that after they moved to Huaqiao, that she would drive to see me at least once per week.
During these text message exchanges, she mentioned how destitute their family was. She and her husband hadn't worked since January. I don't know what her husband does, but skinny MILF told me that she makes more money than him, and she makes about $2000 per month. She said that they might not be able to afford the rent in Huaqiao, on top of their mortgage payment at home. I asked her what her Huaqiao rent was, and she said it was $1,500 for three months.
They moved to Huaqiao on Friday. Skinny MILF told me that she'd come to Shanghai to see me on Monday (today). I told her to book a hotel and I would reimburse her. We met at her hotel room at 1:20 pm. It was the first time I had seen her since April, and second time since January. She was skinny before, but now she looked anorexic and she looked like she aged quite a bit. We hugged, and then we showered, and then we fell back into our usual fuck routine. Again, I tried to rest and chat with her, but she didn't want to talk and she barely said anything and she kept wanting to fuck and DFK nonstop. Finally, a little after 3 pm, I told her that I had to go to work. Because, quite frankly, I was exhausted. Every time I wanted to rest and catch up with her, she'd just climb back onto me and start fucking me.
So, I finally got up and showered and put on my clothes. I then told her to come see me at least once per week. She agreed. And then I gave her $1,500. For her Huaqiao rent. I could tell she felt a bit ashamed, but I told her that I loved her and that I would help her. I told her that I would give her another $1,500 in December. She nodded. And then I left.
So now, my former affair has been converted to an arrangement. $500 per month.
As a side note, it was because of skinny MILF that I came to realize that migrant workers were good potential candidates for hookups. I have since hooked up with a few other migrant workers, such as a office receptionist, and an employee at a coffee shop.
The end.
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Thanks for the Coffee!
Thanks MW for the long read! Really enjoyed that with my morning coffee! I both love having slices of life and reading about others. Quite the story!
P.S. I am working the long game with a local hottie. She's not down to SB yet but I've cracked the ice shield a bit with an epic dinner and drinks last night. Just the pursuit and seduction is fun. We shall see.
PPS Text game is everything. I am still amazed I got her out on a date. No way I coulda landed that a year ago.
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2487936]Man, this post is going to be fucking long. Sorry.
Then, in mid-September, skinny MILF said that her husband couldn't find a job in Shanghai, and instead he found a job in Huaqiao, in Jiangsu Province, which is over an hour away from Shanghai. But skinny MILF swore to me, that after they moved to Huaqiao, that she would drive to see me at least once per week.
During these text message exchanges, she mentioned how destitute their family was. She and her husband hadn't worked since January. I don't know what her husband does, but skinny MILF told me that she makes more money than him, and she makes about $2000 per month. She said that they might not be able to afford the rent in Huaqiao, on top of their mortgage payment at home. I asked her what her Huaqiao rent was, and she said it was $1,500 for three months.
They moved to Huaqiao on Friday. Skinny MILF told me that she'd come to Shanghai to see me on Monday (today). I told her to book a hotel and I would reimburse her. We met at her hotel room at 1:20 pm. It was the first time I had seen her since April, and second time since January. She was skinny before, but now she looked anorexic and she looked like she aged quite a bit. We hugged, and then we showered, and then we fell back into our usual fuck routine. Again, I tried to rest and chat with her, but she didn't want to talk and she barely said anything and she kept wanting to fuck and DFK nonstop. Finally, a little after 3 pm, I told her that I had to go to work. Because, quite frankly, I was exhausted. Every time I wanted to rest and catch up with her, she'd just climb back onto me and start fucking me..[/QUOTE]It's funny how we pay to fuck a 40 MILF when most people will dismiss it. But passion and authenticity is rare. What the girls do not realize is we pay when they are exceptional because we want it to continue. Too many girls ask too much and provide too little. They get paid once and it ends. Better to ask for less and provide more. If a gal is better than the competition, they will be busy and know to charge more. I have been to Fkks in the past when there were more exceptional girls. These gals would be booked solid and never available. They could name their price because guys knew they would not have a shot if they did not pay more. Most made lots of money and got expensive gifts before they quit. There were guy that would give then iPhones so they could book an appointment. Don't see that type now.
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[QUOTE=Akibono;2488388]It's funny how we pay to fuck a 40 MILF when most people will dismiss it. But passion and authenticity is rare. What the girls do not realize is we pay when they are exceptional because we want it to continue. Too many girls ask too much and provide too little. They get paid once and it ends. Better to ask for less and provide more. If a gal is better than the competition, they will be busy and know to charge more. I have been to Fkks in the past when there were more exceptional girls. These gals would be booked solid and never available. They could name their price because guys knew they would not have a shot if they did not pay more. Most made lots of money and got expensive gifts before they quit. There were guy that would give then iPhones so they could book an appointment. Don't see that type now.[/QUOTE]Even though she's mid-40's, sex with her is great because she genuinely likes me, and she loves fucking and DFKing. If she hadn't been out of a job for the past 9 months, I probably wouldn't be paying her. The only reason why I'm paying her now is because I feel sorry for her, but also because she now has to drive over an hour to see me, so I want to enhance her incentive to keep seeing me. My big goal right now is to anal her. That would be epic because she's never done it before, and so it would be cool if I could do it while her husband never has. Man, I'm getting a boner just thinking about it right now.
Your point about the girls asking for less and providing more is pretty much spot on. You cited FKKs as an example. I can provide a similar example with 141 girls in HK. The ones that get great reviews and provide great service have customers all day long. I remember waiting in line to see one girl. When I was next in line, I remember the guy in front of me coming out of the door with a dazed look of happiness on his face. But when it was my turn, it was maybe one of the best 40 minutes I have ever spent with a 141 girl. Amazing GFE and service. I tried so many times to see her again, but the line outside here door was always a few guys deep, even in the middle of the day. In fact, with a lot of the 141 girls, after I had a great experience with any one of them, I was never able to see them again because they were always busy with clients. I don't think they ever raised their prices though. So, I guess they provided great service to ensure a steady clientele.
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2487936]Man, this post is going to be fucking long. Sorry.
The end.[/QUOTE]If skinny MILF ever eaves you, can you give her my number?
I think your story is a good example f why we should always be in the lookout for opportunity and don't burn our bridges.
I also think in situations like this that deep down the husband knows.
Enjoy.
BL.
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Tinder Profile
I know this is a SA thread, but didn't know where to post it so apologies in advance.
I am planning to use Tinder to friend girls in a south american countries in preparation for travels. Looking for tips from you guys on how to setup the profile to get the best hits?
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New Tinder subforum
[QUOTE=Luminous;2489146]I know this is a SA thread, but didn't know where to post it so apologies in advance.
I am planning to use Tinder to friend girls in a south american countries in preparation for travels. Looking for tips from you guys on how to setup the profile to get the best hits?[/QUOTE]I started a new subforum within the Dating Agencies forum. We can discuss Tinder there. Here's the link: [URL]http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4185-Tinder[/URL].
Luminous, we'll call you the founder of the Tinder thread. Why you don't start by telling us your Best Practices for using Tinder in the states. And then you can nurture the thread.
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Girls from Venezuela
Have been getting a lot of messages from Venezuela girls on my SA website. Has anyone been successful meeting them? Can they meet you in Colombia? Or do some have visas to travel? Anyone had success or are they time wasters? Thanks.
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[QUOTE=NeilGeorge;2489607]Have been getting a lot of messages from Venezuela girls on my SA website. Has anyone been successful meeting them? Can they meet you in Colombia? Or do some have visas to travel? Anyone had success or are they time wasters? Thanks.[/QUOTE]I've seen that they are mostly a waste of time. Every time I reactivate my account, I always get a bunch of "spam" messages from places like Venezuela, etc. I pursued one time and it only yielded a girl that wanted me to pay her for pictures. I tried to set up a meet, but nothing ever materialized. Maybe guys actually in Venez might have more luck. I have personally never banged a girl on SA that contacted me first. If you decide to give it a shot, report back.
02.
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[QUOTE=LshRoomer;2489877]I've seen that they are mostly a waste of time. Every time I reactivate my account, I always get a bunch of "spam" messages from places like Venezuela, etc. I pursued one time and it only yielded a girl that wanted me to pay her for pictures. I tried to set up a meet, but nothing ever materialized. Maybe guys actually in Venez might have more luck. I have personally never banged a girl on SA that contacted me first. If you decide to give it a shot, report back.
02.[/QUOTE]Too many girls on SA only want to sell overpriced pics and videos. Anyone distant is not looking for a meeting and a waste of time.
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[QUOTE=LshRoomer;2489877] I have personally never banged a girl on SA that contacted me first.
[/QUOTE]Me too. The ones that were contacting from overseas, I just mostly ignored them. There might have been one or two occasions where I asked them what they had in mind, but their replies indicated that a meetup was not on the menu. There were a few fat fuglies that contacted me too, they almost always asked, "how's the site treating you?” And my guess is that they were genuinely interested, but I ignored them too.
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[QUOTE=LshRoomer;2489877]I've seen that they are mostly a waste of time. Every time I reactivate my account, I always get a bunch of "spam" messages from places like Venezuela, etc. I pursued one time and it only yielded a girl that wanted me to pay her for pictures. I tried to set up a meet, but nothing ever materialized. Maybe guys actually in Venez might have more luck. I have personally never banged a girl on SA that contacted me first. If you decide to give it a shot, report back.
02.[/QUOTE]I have interacted with some of them. I think they can satisfy people with certain fetishes via pictures of videos. One girl I talked to did well because she showed me many Paypal receipts. Her offer was that she would do anything I ask on video in exchange for money. The amount will be depending on the task. I did not want anything so I said I would give her some money anyway. I asked what is the typical charge so I know how much to give her and ask her to prove it. That is when she showed me the receipts and how I know she is doing well.
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[QUOTE=NeilGeorge;2489607]Have been getting a lot of messages from Venezuela girls on my SA website. Has anyone been successful meeting them? Can they meet you in Colombia? Or do some have visas to travel? Anyone had success or are they time wasters? Thanks.[/QUOTE]Time wasters. I think you can set your inbox filters in [URL]seekng.com[/URL] to ignore messages from girls that meet certain criteria. Any girl contacting you from outside your travel area is of no. Little value.
I too played with a Venezuela girl, go some free video calls but really not my thing. I am looking for physical hookups in my area.
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[QUOTE=Nounce;2489908]I have interacted with some of them. I think they can satisfy people with certain fetishes via pictures of videos. One girl I talked to did well because she showed me many Paypal receipts. Her offer was that she would do anything I ask on video in exchange for money. The amount will be depending on the task. I did not want anything so I said I would give her some money anyway. I asked what is the typical charge so I know how much to give her and ask her to prove it. That is when she showed me the receipts and how I know she is doing well.[/QUOTE]Hey Nounce,
Just out of curiosity, how much are these girls making that are selling pics and vids on SA? What kinds of numbers did you see on the receipts?
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[QUOTE=LshRoomer;2490085]
Just out of curiosity, how much are these girls making that are selling pics and vids on SA? What kinds of numbers did you see on the receipts?[/QUOTE]I remember the minimum amount was US $50. I thought that was a lot for Venezuela. The maximum was no more than $100.
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[QUOTE=BrizLad;2489970]Time wasters. I think you can set your inbox filters in [URL]seekng.com[/URL] to ignore messages from girls that meet certain criteria. Any girl contacting you from outside your travel area is of no. Little value.
I too played with a Venezuela girl, go some free video calls but really not my thing. I am looking for physical hookups in my area.[/QUOTE]Both a time waster and potential for being scammed is high. You can screen all this B.S, with the filters. As far as videos there are much better ways to spend your money.
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SA where?
Seeking pros: I haven't used Seeking yet but now I think I'm about to join.
The reason I haven't yet said it just seems like such a hassle wading through profiles and making it a numbers game, when an agency can provide a girl in 45 minutes. But I do like the idea of just having a day of meals and sights finished by a hotel session.
Question: what cities in your experience have the best "hit rates?" Where SA has a developed scene and you can reliably expect to send out a few messages, offer up a nice package, and get some takers? Or is that totally unrealistic?
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[QUOTE=AmericanPi;2490615]Seeking pros: I haven't used Seeking yet but now I think I'm about to join.
The reason I haven't yet said it just seems like such a hassle wading through profiles and making it a numbers game, when an agency can provide a girl in 45 minutes. But I do like the idea of just having a day of meals and sights finished by a hotel session.
Question: what cities in your experience have the best "hit rates?" Where SA has a developed scene and you can reliably expect to send out a few messages, offer up a nice package, and get some takers? Or is that totally unrealistic?[/QUOTE]Join. After your first good experience with an SB, you won't regret it.
To your question. I've had the most success in Germany and UK. "Success" in this case is defined as comms were great (moving over to whatsapp), the girls were friendly, ready to hang out, and ready to bang at the end of hte night, all for about 300-400 eu. UK and Germany seem to have more grounded girls that just want to have fun and they appreciate the cash at the end of the day which makes it easier for me to give it.
In the US, I have only tried it in Denver and Orlando. I was able to find plenty of girls in Denver but they wanted too much in my opinion. Orlando was a waste of time.
Once in London, an escort tried to upsell me kissing. I just laughed (and said hell no in my head), as this would never happen with an SB.
One test I use to see if a place is "developed" is looking to see how many girls are recently active in an area. For instance, the first 10 pages or so for London have girls that have all been active within the last 24 hours.
There are plenty of tips and gotchas in this thread. Read back and stay safe man.
02.
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[QUOTE=AmericanPi;2490615]Seeking pros: I haven't used Seeking yet but now I think I'm about to join.
The reason I haven't yet said it just seems like such a hassle wading through profiles and making it a numbers game, when an agency can provide a girl in 45 minutes. But I do like the idea of just having a day of meals and sights finished by a hotel session.
Question: what cities in your experience have the best "hit rates?" Where SA has a developed scene and you can reliably expect to send out a few messages, offer up a nice package, and get some takers? Or is that totally unrealistic?[/QUOTE]None. If you want a hooker, just call the escort pages.
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[QUOTE=LshRoomer;2490755]Join. After your first good experience with an SB, you won't regret it.
To your question. I've had the most success in Germany and UK. "Success" in this case is defined as comms were great (moving over to whatsapp), the girls were friendly, ready to hang out, and ready to bang at the end of hte night, all for about 300-400 eu. UK and Germany seem to have more grounded girls that just want to have fun and they appreciate the cash at the end of the day which makes it easier for me to give it.
In the US, I have only tried it in Denver and Orlando. I was able to find plenty of girls in Denver but they wanted too much in my opinion. Orlando was a waste of time.
Once in London, an escort tried to upsell me kissing. I just laughed (and said hell no in my head), as this would never happen with an SB.
One test I use to see if a place is "developed" is looking to see how many girls are recently active in an area. For instance, the first 10 pages or so for London have girls that have all been active within the last 24 hours.
There are plenty of tips and gotchas in this thread. Read back and stay safe man.
02.[/QUOTE]It would help this board if you posted what people wanted for various cities.
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[QUOTE=Akibono;2490773]It would help this board if you posted what people wanted for various cities.[/QUOTE]Akibono,
We are all here to help each other and share our experiences sir. I don't understand what you mean in your last comment? Are you asking for city details instead of naming the general country?
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SA is a lot of work, but as some have said you can find some real gems out there. I had a SB in Tijuana a few years ago, and no pro escort anywhere else has even come close to giving me the same level of enjoyment. I was lucky though, she had only joined the site the day before because she had lost her job that week.
I will be heading to Medellin soon and I plan on using SA down there. Hopefully I'll get lucky.
I will point out that some of the prices they try and give you are ridiculous! So it might take a while to find one you really like for a decent price.
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[QUOTE=LshRoomer;2490755]Join. After your first good experience with an SB, you won't regret it.
To your question. I've had the most success in Germany and UK. "Success" in this case is defined as comms were great (moving over to whatsapp), the girls were friendly, ready to hang out, and ready to bang at the end of hte night, all for about 300-400 eu. UK and Germany seem to have more grounded girls that just want to have fun and they appreciate the cash at the end of the day which makes it easier for me to give it.
In the US, I have only tried it in Denver and Orlando. I was able to find plenty of girls in Denver but they wanted too much in my opinion. Orlando was a waste of time.
Once in London, an escort tried to upsell me kissing. I just laughed (and said hell no in my head), as this would never happen with an SB.
One test I use to see if a place is "developed" is looking to see how many girls are recently active in an area. For instance, the first 10 pages or so for London have girls that have all been active within the last 24 hours.
There are plenty of tips and gotchas in this thread. Read back and stay safe man.
02.[/QUOTE]Were you living in Denver and Orlando when you used SA? Or you visiting those cities on a short term basis? I can see Orlando is perhaps not too productive. I have not used SA in Orlando but have had some success in Miami / Ft Laud area and also a couple of times in Tampa; the Tampa / St Pete area was truly good with the amount of response I received when I sent out requests ahead of my visit and the quality of girls was awesome and FL prices were reasonably cheap. Orlando however is a touristy city with mostly Disney and Universal crowds and not a fun place otherwise so I can imagine it is a waste of time. I had been in Denver a bunch of times but not recently; I have been on SA for 4-5 years now but in this time frame I was in Denver only once and I did not get a chance to use SA on that visit.
Your 300/400 Euro price is a bit high for my taste. I have gotten super great service in Europe for 200. Pretty girls too. Europe is in economic distress. There are tons of girls now who are desperate. In Spain, one girl I met through SA told me that her work had dried up and she was more or less desperate. She was grateful to take 200 from me for each session, spent nearly 3 hrs each time and pretty much nothing was off limits. That would have cost a pretty penny in FKKs. On the plus side, she was a true Catalan woman and not a Romanian faking to be Catalan (FKK inside joke, for those who get it), BTW, this was prior to Covid. I would think things are truly dire in Europe now and I would not be shocked if you can truly exceptional deals for 200 to 300 (multiple hours, super hot girls, BBFS, etc).
I think in US it is possible to get decent service for fly by travelers but much better to be a local. American girls don't put out that easily and not necessarily on the first date. Some might but many won't. If you are in a city for 4 days, you can try your luck but don't be too disappointed if nothing happens. It is not you, it is them.
Of course, it all depends on who you seek. I always stick to 25, White, slim body types and generally pleasant pretty faces. Occasionally I take fair skinned Latinas. Colombian / Argentine types rather than Mexican / Brazilian types. That is my optical spec. I suspect if you compromise on specs or expand the range of specs, success rate might go up. However, I would not know because I did not try.
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Noob question
Hey Guys,
Probably a noob question from a first time poster in this thread. I love in NL and have had quite some fun with the local sugar dating site, suikerarrengements. NL. Now planning a trip to Lisbon soon and couldn't find a local Portuguese sugardating website, so going to sign up for the premium membership of SA soon.
Question, if I become a premium member and message a girl, would the girl be able to read the message only if she is a premium member too? Asking because I am getting some messages from girls but can't read them as I am not a premium member.
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Can Be Painful
I am of course the guy singing the praises of SA because I had so many good experiences last year. But man I am struggling in my second tier city. You may recall I started out with two scam girls arrive at the meet only to be told by text they can't meet till the get CashApp. Pick your favorite excuse.
Then I happened upon Layla and was saved. But Layla has some flaws and so when she's out of town I've been trying to find alternatives. And ouch!
I chased this one girl hard. Finally got her to go out. But then a postpone. Then on for today. But she didn't show. Apologized and had an excuse. But damn.
And had another date for tomorrow and I get the "car broke down need Cash App" text. Wtf is wrong with these girls. They could be making $400/ pop but they'the rather scam guys for $50 each and do volume. Sooooo annoying.
Very frustrated right now.
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Girls Message Free
[QUOTE=JackOfNone;2490811]Hey Guys,
Probably a noob question from a first time poster in this thread. I love in NL and have had quite some fun with the local sugar dating site, suikerarrengements. NL. Now planning a trip to Lisbon soon and couldn't find a local Portuguese sugardating website, so going to sign up for the premium membership of SA soon.
Question, if I become a premium member and message a girl, would the girl be able to read the message only if she is a premium member too? Asking because I am getting some messages from girls but can't read them as I am not a premium member.[/QUOTE]Guys have dicks so they pay to message.
Girls have pussys so they message for free.
So yeah they don't need premium but you do.
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Can Be Painful
I am of course the guy singing the praises of SA because I had so many good experiences last year. But man I am struggling in my second tier city. You may recall I started out with two scam girls — arrive at the meet only to be told by text they can't meet till the get CashApp. Pick your favorite excuse.
Then I happened upon Layla and was saved. But Layla has some flaws and so when she's out of town I've been trying tingindo alternatives. And ouch!
I chased this one girl hard. Finally got her to go out. But then a postpone. Then on for today. But she didn't show. Apologized and had an excuse. But damn.
And had another date for tomorrow and I get the "car broke down need Cash App" text. Wtf is wrong with these girls. They could be making $400/ pop but they'the rather scam guys for $50 each and do volume. Sooooo annoying.
Very frustrated right now.
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[QUOTE=JackOfNone;2490811]Hey Guys,
Probably a noob question from a first time poster in this thread. I love in NL and have had quite some fun with the local sugar dating site, suikerarrengements. NL. Now planning a trip to Lisbon soon and couldn't find a local Portuguese sugardating website, so going to sign up for the premium membership of SA soon.
Question, if I become a premium member and message a girl, would the girl be able to read the message only if she is a premium member too? Asking because I am getting some messages from girls but can't read them as I am not a premium member.[/QUOTE]I looked up Lisbon just now and the selection seems OK. That's a good omen as it is not always true in my experience that SA has a large enough selection of girls in all the European cities.
How long will you be in Lisbon? If it is for 2 to 3 weeks at least, paying up a month worth of subscription is worth it. If you are only there for a week or less, I would be hesitant to spend 80 bucks to purchase a subscription. When I used SA in Europe, it was because I already purchased subscription in USA and didn't cost me anything more to use in Europe.
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[QUOTE=Steve9696;2490828]
And had another date for tomorrow and I get the "car broke down need Cash App" text. Wtf is wrong with these girls. They could be making $400/ pop but they'the rather scam guys for $50 each and do volume. Sooooo annoying.
Very frustrated right now.[/QUOTE]I think these gals know what they're doing, based on their experience. We just don't know what their experiences are. Have you tried looking for SBs in a nearby city? I was stuck in a 2nd tier US city and had no success with SA, so then I expended my search to include two nearby cities and had some success. Of course, the downside was the 2-3 hour drives. So, I usually just spent the weekends in those nearby cities and made the most of my time there, even when the dates were occasional no-shows.
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Portland OR
[QUOTE=AmericanPi;2490615]
Question: what cities in your experience have the best "hit rates?" Where SA has a developed scene and you can reliably expect to send out a few messages, offer up a nice package, and get some takers? Or is that totally unrealistic?[/QUOTE]I had to travel to Portland OR a lot for work. My hit rate in Portland was very good. Maybe it's because hippy chicks are more chill, I don't know.
I tried SA in about a dozen USA Cities, and other than Portland, OR, I would say that Las Vegas was second best, which seems counter intuitive, but I think any city where tourism is the main industry is a city where the many locals are hard up for money. After all, you cannot get rich being a waitress or a blackjack dealer. For example, another place where I had good success was Niagara Falls on the Canadian side. My main city for SA was SF, and man oh man, that was a LOT of work, but it was pretty worth it.
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[QUOTE=LshRoomer;2490755]
In the US, I have only tried it in Denver and Orlando. I was able to find plenty of girls in Denver but they wanted too much in my opinion. Orlando was a waste of time.
[/QUOTE]Orlando surprisingly has a lot of FS AMPS, so that's a good alternative if you find yourself in Orlando.