American Women

Babe, I wasn't looking for an argument as my position is rather unassailable! But, I don't think most of the guys on this board are judging American women based on "a few," but rather we are judging based on the MAJORITY of our experiences. I have thirty years of sexual experience with American women and there have been more than a few good experiences but the majority have been far inferior to my average experience with non-American women. I think that's the point that most of us are trying to make, in our own inarticulate, insenstitive, Cro-Magnon fashion. It is, after all, somewhat of a numbers game. In my field, we use a thing called "expected value." If you are not familiar with this, it basically means you have to multiply the value of each possible outcome by the probability of its occurring. Here's an example.

Dickhead meets a seemingly nice woman and is thinking about asking her out. Possible outcomes with values and probability:

1). Woman tells him to F.O.A.D. Value NEGATIVE $500 (damage to Dickhead's delicate psyche), probability 20%.
2). Woman says, "Sure, call me some time," and then gives a fake phone number. Value NEGATIVE $250 (some damage to psyche plus time is money), probability 15%.
3). Woman says yes, they go out, there is no chemistry, and nothing happens. Value NEGATIVE $100 (guy always has to pay), probability 25%.
4). Woman says yes, they go out, they hit it off, they go out again, and still nothing happens. Value NEGATIVE $200, probability 20%.
5). Woman says yes, they go out, they have sex, and then the woman acts strange, gives vague excuses, etc., and it never happens again. Value $100 (average value of average sex to the average Dickhead), probability 15%.
6). Woman says yes, they go out, they have sex many times, and then there is an ugly and painful breakup. Value varies from negative a whole bunch to positive quite a bit, with a mean value of zero; probability 5%.

These are the only outcomes I have personally experienced, although in #6, "many times" has lasted up to seven years.

Expected value of asking an American woman out = (-500 x .2) + (-250 x .15) + (-100 x .25) + (-200 x .2) + (100 x .15) + (0 x .05) = NEGATIVE $187.50.

And, I can get a hooker for less than $187.50 pretty much anywhere except the United States. Therefore, I'm better off even if the subsequent sex is WORTHLESS!

Dickhead can be romantic at times but at heart is practical and pragmatic like most men. Plus, the older I get the more valuable my remaining time becomes (I always thought I'd die young but now it's too late!)

Of course this is riddled with sarcasm as usual, but hopefully I made some sort of point.

"CB - GB" gives me the "heebie jeebies." Way, way out of line.

Amen Dickhead -- CBGB, c'mon!

USbabe -- absolutely, I'd rather travel elsewhere. I've had American culture stuffed down my throat my entire life, and it's like going to a restaurant where there's only one thing on the menu. Might be great, but you yearn for something different. I dearly love immersing myself in different scenarios and cultures because I learn a lot about and can better appreciate my place in the world. And one of the things travel does is gives you a sense of context for what happens around you -- you can see other perspectives and approaches, which is precisely why a lot of guys here have are complaining about the meal that's constantly set before them.

I agree with you absolutely that there's a power inequity in many countries in terms of economics, but there's more to the equation than that. Clearly none of us are advocating mistreatment of women, or wives committing ritual suicide on the death of their spouses or any of that. But relationships in other countries are simply very often founded on different foundations. Yes, in places it may be based on a male-dominated societal model, but it's also present in various places where matriarchy is strong. Some of it is purely and simply a core understanding of how others ought to be treated, and, frankly, this is where things in this country too often fall short.

Let me give you an example. One of my best friends had his marriage of twelve years fall apart a little over a year ago. Fine, that happens, and he wasn't always a saint, nor was she. I'd personally not want to be married to either of them, though they're both my good friends. But here's the part that was absolutely galling -- she signed a year-long lease on an apartment, moved out, and only then told him she was going, and that she wasn't really sure whether it was permanent or not -- she wanted to get back together with someone she'd had a fling with long ago when she was in the peace corps, and she wanted my friend to not only be okay with that, but to basically wait until she figured out whether or not she was coming back. She -- get this -- [b]forbade[/b] him to see anyone else while she was gone, and got very upset with him (and with me, I might add, when I advised him to tell her to take a flying leap) when he wouldn't agree to put his life on hold while she basically decided his future. He pressed her to set a shorter timeline, saying that a year was just not reasonable, which she refused to do, and then basically said, fine, it's over, I'm not going to agree to give you permission to make me a cuckhold dangling on a string.

(I should note that this friend's first wife -- another friend, now dead, another dear and wacky woman -- cornered me many years ago and asked me point-blank what I would do in her position. Her position at the time was knowing that the two above were deeply involved in each other. I said to her that if it were me I'd give him an ultimatum and if it weren't heeded, I'd change the locks and throw the bum out. She changed the locks the next day.)

So here we are a couple of months ago, a year later in the process. They are divorced, he's dating, her old flame turned out to be the same immature idiot he was when they were in Tonga, and she's filled with bitterness at my friend, who she holds responsible for the profound emptiness and loneliness that now fills her life, because he was unreasonable. Me, I get to listen to her cry about it and not only not understand what went wrong, but still be unable to comprehend that the whole process wasn't all completely about her.

I have seen this exact same kind of behavior time and time again from various female friends, who have thrown away men who these women clearly acknowledge are the loves of their lives over the most idiotic kinds of things -- everything from one guy having the temerity to actually want to get married after six years of an intense (and on his part absolutely worshipping) relationship to one woman who dumped the guy she'd been with for a year because he spit on the sidewalk repeatedly one week because he had a sinus infection (she simply couldn't be with someone who did that.)

This goes beyond being self-centered or being b*tches -- this is about being self-destructive in terms of relationships. It's not about "allowing" certain kinds of behavior -- good lord, some of this stuff is far beyond predictability or sense. I personally don't have the same completely negative view of American women as many here do in terms of thinking of all of all as terrible and hopeless, but I do believe that there's something generally wrong here.

You might be right about American men and women overanalyzing things, but in terms of taking rejection too seriously (and your example on at the gym) I'd simply say that when one is kicked where it hurts repeatedly one tends to cover up so as not to take the full force of the next blow. It's a survival instinct.

Just to be clear about where I'm coming from -- I'm someone who's been in a relationship for forever, fairly happily for the most part, and I don't expect perfection from anyone. Lord knows I fall far short in that regard. But if anyone is to end up at all happy in the male-female jousting process, some degree of equity and clarity must be present in the rules.

The men I know who wreck and ruin their relationships do so in the usual classic ways of catting around or being immature louts, etc., but the difference is that they usually are willing to take the blame fairly immediately for screwing things up. Not so with the women, for whom that process may take years, if it ever happens, and this is a very key difference.

(And, btw, let me also thank you for your presence and reasoned responses, and for managing to ignore most of the baiting that goes one here.)

USBabe you said

"But on the other hand, if you compare the "average" middle-aged American woman with the "average" middle-aged European woman, the American woman frequently looks much younger. Sun is very damaging and aging to skin (as is smoking, which Europeans do a lot more than Americans). "

What a bunch of bullshit!!! The average middle aged American lady more attractive than a middle aged European lady???? Christie Brinkley almost 50?? I'm sure a plastic surgeon had something to do with it. If you want to meet a poor plastic surgeon, go to Europe. Plastic surgery in Europe is rare. Okay, what about Sofia Loren??? She's much older and seems to defy age. One of things I've noticed about Europeans is that they often look young for their age, especially the French, they defy aging better than anyone in the West. While in Paris I met a women who I thought was 25, she turned out to be 40!!! As far as Americans being healthier than Europeans, please explain this: almost 35 million people in the States don't have access to healthcare!!! Also the HIV rate in the US is twice that of the European Union and four times that of Canada!!!Uh huh sure whatever. Oh yeah Lennox Lewis, he's European, and he kicked the crap out of Mike Tyson!!

Another thing to ponder, what about this discussion board? There is a whole topic dedicated to the subject of American women in the WSG, much of it seems to be complaints about them.

Oh another thing I think it might me more entertaining to have sex with vampire than with an *b*itch like you USBabe.

USBabe, yer e-mail address please.....

CBGB... lighten up... your recent tirades make American Men look bad. I can see that vein in your forehead about to pop.

Sinan... are you serious??? After that last post we'll be lucky if she comes back at all.

Dickhead... Yes, I meant loser... without the second chance to change things in the new forum it's easier to make mistakes. No hard feelings on the shaved Rubber thing I hope... I thought it was kinda funny. On the small town girl issue: I would agree that they are more close minded and less venturesome than others in daily events, but the reverse is true when in bed.

USbabe... too bad about your friends. While it's true that most of the posters here have made up their minds about US women, I would have thought they'd want to know why. I find it likely that in a few years, once their good/youthful looks have failed, they will sit together at the coffee shop and wonder why men no longer want them. They will likely put men down as "assholes" when the real reason is that they no longer have good looks to counter their bad attitudes. I applaud you for sticking around and trying to find a few answers.

Joe said:

"I'd simply say that when one is kicked where it hurts repeatedly one tends to cover up so as not to take the full force of the next blow. It's a survival instinct."

Nicely said Joe. As a guy in his late 20's I'm tired of being constantly shot down. I'm clean cut, well dressed, articulate, and wasn't beat with the ugly bat; yet I'm constantly turned down by women. The most given reason? "Sorry, I'm seeing someone right now". Well I know that's bullshit, a recent survey done in the US states that 50% of people between 18 and 35 are single. The result of this constant failure is that I no longer bother to ask US girls out. The only reason I have a GF at present is because I moved to a new town and wanted to meet some people, so I took out an ad on a singles site (which is a fantastic way of crushing ones self esteem by the way). She has many of the qualities I look for in a mate but it's only been 3 months and as we all know it takes longer than that to get to know a person. She is my final attempt at an American Woman... if she turns out like the others then it's off to South America I go.

FedUp, I think that USBabe has caught on that I'm no longer willing to blindly bash American women, so, I think that she's intelligent enough to read the cards on the table and engage me in intelligent conversation away from the board.

As for your post and the ones you pasted, they hit the nail on the head. MY frustratiuon is that the parental units taught me to respect women and in my approaches to them, I did JUST THAT. However, they seem NOT to respond to that and after so many times of being metaphorically kicked in the nuts without a cup, one rasies his shields (Yes, I like Star Trek! LOL) to fend off their daily rejections. The paradox amazes me: they (American women) crave the "exciting guy" (I'm by no means boring if you ask my friends, law enforcement, and my former commanders in the military but that's another story NEVER to be told) who will more often than NOT stomp on their hearts like a dried out eggshell and dump them like yesterday's stool sample, while the guy who considers their feelings and treats them as a human being (GASP! This is the beginning of the end for the well-mannered guy!) will be seen as last year's fashion; unexciting and unworthy of attention. These days, I merely say that American women are intelligent, BUT they must live with the choices they make. If they take a risk that they know deep in their will end up creating emotional havoc in their lives, SO BE IT. DO NOT come crying to ME and ask to use my shoulder and my ear simply becasue you were STUPID enough to do what you knew would cause you pain. I no longer care that they make such stupid decisions. THAT, in and of itself shows me that they are not capable of making wise decisions in the arena of dating, and I don't wanna be with a dumbbell. To go a bit further, Fed, your scenario of the future when these women sit around bitching about American men being assholes was one that I thought of for a long time, myself. What is it with this board?? Am I transmitting my thoughts as I sleep?? LOL Anyway, this scenario is the inevitable END to the unwise decisions American Women make. They end up at the cafe with their gf's blaming American MEN for their mistakes while not admitting that their attitudes and their current (and ever present loss of physical attractiveness) is the problem for their lack of a significant other. Like I said in a previous post (and even before this NEW forum came to fruition) I don't find it difficult at all to scare up female companionship (not necessarily sexual) whenever I've gone to Europe or the Republic of Panama. I know it wasn't financial, either, 'cos I NEVER had some visa ***** hanging on me. All my encounters were of GENUINE interest. An example was when I was at a New Year's Eve Party some years back. I was at a disco and (I was enjoying the body of a blonde barmaid who I was staying with for the week) a brunette walks up to me and starts to chat me up. I knew within a minute that she wanted to drain me of my bodily fluids and I started to walk out the disco to go home with her, but my fucking conscience got the better of me. GODDAMMIT!!! Anyway, my efforts will be focused on foreign women from now on, but I won't totally refuse American women. If they reform themselves in my eyes, I will be proven wrong (happily, but unlikely). If they DON'T reform themselves, I will be proven right and the focus of my efforts will not be mistaken.

I am posting this for some friends of mine, Dufus and Ed. It’s quite long. Hope it can illuminate – Angus.

[Dufus: Dufus speaking, been reading the forum for a while. Trying to bring some objectivity to your worthy discussion. It’s been interesting but a lot of personal anecdote. Like it’s been said, we need more Am. Women to voice their opinions – keeps us honest to a certain extent.

I think I can get around her reluctance to join in. I have a foolproof way to plumb the depths of the American woman’s soul and get her take on things, how she really views men, herself, love, sex. I’ll present 16 transcripts from the personals section of a local [San Francisco Bay Area] Bulletin Board, culled from hundreds of Am. Wom. presenting their best face to the world (they are trying to attract a mate?). A statistical random sample. Obviously the methodology biases giving the Am. Women the benefit of the doubt since she gets to describe herself in her own words. I’ll annotate them to elucidate their meaning.]

[ed: editors note: Dufus, this isn’t objective. You ignored hundreds of decent women and only picked out the one’s that got under your skin]

[dufus: are there just a lot of weird chicks in the Bay Area?]

[ed: it’s partly demographic. US Census reports that there are cartloads of excess males, in the horniest 20-40+ demographics, over available females. The women get to name their price. It’s high.]
[Dfs: apologies for the length. But this is objective and requires a large sample. This is science. Or is it sociology?]
[ed: you spend the whole Saturday Evening into the wee hours, writing this drivel. Dude, you need to get laid.]

transcript one:
----------------
What do you want in this world, Honesty?
[Dufus: honestly? I want sex]

If sex is what your looking for then don't respond either there is so much more to companionship then sex
[Dufus: it goes like this. A city in Brazil declares a holiday in celebration of orgasms – if you can combine urban planning and sex why not companionship and sex?]. Personally I find it real primitive if people base relationships on sex
[Dufus: OK, let it be built on mutual love and respect…40 foot pilings driven deep into the bedrock, the foundations are solid. You get them, the ground floor thru the 5th story… floors 6 thru 120 about sex. deal?].
It is like saying that it is okay to cheat cause that is human instinct or that men and women can't be friends cause they will want to sleep with each other
[Dufus: we can be friends and we can sleep with each other]. He slept with me so he must love me, is another example
[Dfs: look, you reap what you sow – you made prostitution illegal, right? To get sex I either become a criminal or make you believe I love you. It’s just the lesser of two evils]. No these are neither good nor healthy attitudes towards life or relationships. No this isn't a hang up this is just being real.
[clue me in , this a personal ad, right? aren’t you supposed to be making yourself attractive, like even 3% attractive]

BTW I am 27 so please I don't need my dad to reply. [Dufus: She ain’t a sand-dune she’s a whole f…ing BEEEAACCH!!!!!!] [ed: didn’t you steal that line?]



transcript 2:



In search of a sleeping/cuddle buddy...




I'm a 22-year old student here in Oakland until mid-August, when I go back to school….
I can't stand sleeping alone, and maybe some of you all know what that's like? ….
So I'm looking for someone who wants to get together and just sleep, as weird as that sounds. Cuddle to sleep, actually….No strings attached, and it wouldn't be every night...I do snore… I don't want to be doing this with anyone old enough to be my father….
Nothing else, though...just cuddling to sleep. No kissing, no sex of any kind. ….

I'm 5'6", 250 lbs, blond hair and blue eyes.
So email me if you're interested! =)

[ed: I mean, isn’t there DIAL-A-TEDDY-BEAR for perverts like you? What a dangerous, infantile fantasy] [Dufus: But even so, Guys are so hard-up for sex here that she’s sparked a mini-construction in the Bay Area of guys reinforcing the floors of their apartments so they can accommodate her][ed: I’m not hard up]


transcript 3:
I want a really smart boyfriend
[Dufus: I’ve got an IQ of 100. It’s 30 points higher than yours. Relatively speaking I’m Einstein]


I'm 24, single, and sick of boring yuppies with nothing to say!! I am attractive(I think), friendly, and very very very very very very very sick of meeting the wrong type of guy. I would love to meet someone who is really bright and well read [ed: she actually wrote that very,very…cr*p][D: I don’t make this up.]

[ed: Anyway, this one is progress. She doesn’t say she doesn’t like sex. No cheap shots at guys in their 30’s]
[Dufus: I’m really, really, really,really,really, really, really smart and I have many,many,many,many interesting things to say. We’ll have sex after I’ve explained you what’s in a rainbow.]



transcript 4:
...fun, excitment, new friends and maybe a new relationship. I am easy on the eyes, can hold up my end of the conversation and tend to have a sarcastic type of humor (just to warn you)! Oh, and I am 32 years old. If you are smart, funny, and tall (at least 5'11")

[Dufus: Darn! only 5’10” 15/16th’s],

I'd love to hear from you.

[Dufus: do I have to be a stand up comedian to get laid around here]

[ed: quit whining, she wants a tall, stand up comedian.][Dufus: what’s with the “sarcastic sense of humor” – isn’t sarcasm the lowest form of humor – how does she get away with it?][ed: She probably has large breasts…they make up for a multitude of sins. ][D: while they’re firm?]


[transcript 5:]
Any smart, handsome man free for a date?



Hi! Thanks for stopping by. I'm (unexpectatly) free tonight. Would be nice to be in the company of an interesting and attractive man in his 30s (at least to keep the wolfs away)[ed: that’s “wolves” – but I’m being a humorless pedant][Dufus: and humor’s big, see below]. Please be unattached, easygoing, and possess a sense of humor.[Dufus: How much do you charge when you’re not free?…hehe] If nothing else, maybe we'll both find a new friend... have some wine, interesting conversations... maybe check out some music.[Dufus: then again, maybe we’ll find we have only one thing in common: we hate each other’s guts]

No weirdos, cranky guys, complainers, or those who just like to hear themself's talk [ed: doesn’t describe anyone on this forum][Dufus: I agree], but have no interest in someone else's ideas.. [ed: I’m fedup complaining. I’m emigrating][D: right behind you bro’.]


transcript 6:

Can you help me remember what there is to like about men?
[Dufus: Sorry, as a general rule I don’t usually date men. Plus I wish all other men would shrivel up and die and leave all the world’s women to me][ed: to put a more pseudointellectual spin on your question – it’s a question of comparative advantage. I’m built for sex, you’re girlfriend’s shoulder is built to cry on. Use each in a manner befitting their abilities: cry on her shoulder, have sex with me.]
transcript 7:

Where are the nice, respectful men?
[Dufus: a lot of them are chasing tail in Thailand, Brazil, Argentina,DR,CR, Malaysia, …]
[ed: but doing it respectfully…out of respect to you they’ll pretend to have no interest in sex whatsoever.]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
transcript 8:

Attractive 32 y.o. SF seeks Worthy Friend
Attractive & wicked intelligent SF, 32, 5'3", graduate degree, top school-educated, seeks tall (5'9"+), reasonably fit, well-educated, and masculine/handsome *single*, …man, 27-38... East Coast transplant who moved here a few years ago...
[Dufus: Woe is me! multi-degreed career woman. I am not worthy. Unless I can trade you very fit for only a bachelor’s degree? I’ll send you my transcripts. Come to think of it who wants to screw around with Sheepskin. Do I really need a Phd to get laid?]
[ed: It’s called assortative mating. For you, that means smart people have the hots for smart people. Since I know what assortative mating is I’m in already]
[Dufus: funny, I usually associate wicked intelligence with the likes of Hitler, Khengis Khan, Caligula, the Borgia’s. None of whom get my rocks rolling]

I have many diverse interests [Dufus: Lady, I’ve got one and only one hobby…] and am an inquisitive and adventurous soul with joie de vivre to spare [Dufus: Joe de what?] .
Let's enjoy each other's company for a little while, no pressure, no strings[Dufus: OK, no strings. How about handcuffs?]. And who knows... if it's "love at first sight," maybe you could even convince me to leave this superficial (albeit beautiful) place and move back to the East where we can enjoy the Seasons again together. [Dufus: aren’t 3 out of 4 seasons on the East Coast frigid?][ed: that’s Minnesota]

[Dufus: would that there were a pinata big enough to stuff you and your inflated ego in]
[editor: violence is reprehensible and will not be condoned. Oh look! there’s a giant pinata. How pretty! All I need is a big stick to whack it with]


transcript 9:

young SF wants generous SM.

[Dufus: generous, ma’m, in which department, precisely?][ed: Dufus, there, see that big bulge in your pants][D: yeah, but that’s only my wallet!][ed: Exactly, Dufus.]


transcript 10:
Sexy Female, bored at home tonight and looking to lick and be licked tonight....would prefer within the next 2 hours

[ed: mirabile dictu, she’s horny…][Dufus: Whoaaa!! maybe I’m in][ed: then again maybe you’re not … got this from the Dyke’s personals section, Sorry.]

transcript 11:
Looking for someone who is NOT perfect. Do you have 'issues'?
[Dufus: No Really I don’t. Honest. Back issues, sure: Playboy, Penthouse, Big Jugs…but, they don’t count right?]
Do you have "issues"? Low self-esteem, over-weight, whatever...perhaps longing for someone to fill the void in your life who may be able to help you get on the right track? If so, we should talk. Maybe we can help eachother out. :)

[editor: Ma’m, I do have one issue. I wasn’t breast-fed as a baby. When does therapy begin?]
If you aren't going to send a genuine response (ie: no "copy and paste" response), then please don't waste my inbox space. [editor: Yes, ma’am][Dufus: what’s this thing women have with keeping their inboxes clean?]

transcript 12:

if YOU are bored as well, and (hopefully stumbled
upon this because you were searching for a job as was i;
as opposed to checking this section relentlessly for new
additions to give your assortment of diseases to; and/or
collect pictures/jack off material--)

send me your picture and be under 26.

[editor: Hell hath no fury like a woman’s scorn]. [Dufus: Sung to the tune of: “American woman, get away from me…”][ed: Look, like USBabe says, you can’t tar everyone with the same brush. USBabe’s very nice][Dufus: I’m dreaming what she’s like in a gossamer negligee. HOT!][ed: I meant her character, Dufus, so in a pool of 150 million Am. Women there’s bound to be another nice one, there’s more than one in every bunch]

transcript 13:
Imagine the odds...
[Dufus: I did. About 1 in 150 million][Ed: Dufus, let her finish] that someone I could want to get to know and vice-versa was actually reading this right now [Ed: let me see, picky self absorbed, and pigs might fly][Dufus: Or prostitution is legalized in the States]

transcript 14:
I shop at Lane Bryant, The Avenue, and the Plus-sized section at Ross
[ed: Check her out, she’s good-looking from a distance][D: like, how far?][ed: like 10,000 miles, below the horizon, dark-side of the moon, namely a safe distance]

transcript 15:
bored! help me :)
Where is everyone?? I'm so bored hehe.
23 yr old girl, bored out of her mind. Live in downtown SJ. Someone entertain me! And I don't mean sex!
[Ed: Kids, todays word is: quid pro quo][Dufus: yeah., pro’s!!!!; back on topic!]


transcript 16:

Very specific man... You out there somewhere???
I am pretty specific as to what exactly I am looking for
The worst thing that can happen is I won’t find it [Dufus: then what? back to your cats and vibrators]…
Must have a good job….I only like tall men with wide shoulders…
funny but not cynical.[D: Oh! the shame of it, I disqualified myself already]……
I am looking specifically for a man with little to no baggage [D: bags are packed] …. I am looking for a permanent addition to my life [D: have you considered getting a St. Bernard?]………..
I am in my early 30’s and my life is good. Must be a good listener and enjoy and respect women’s conversation[D: (example conversation) her: yack, yack, yack, yabba, yabba, yabba. Don’t you agree, Fido? (fido) Yes, honey.(her) yack, yack, yack, yaba,yabba,yabba]. So being self centered or an ego monster won’t work either.[D: Lady, tell me about it]……
Well, if you made it this far I hope to hear from you… Oh ya I don’t like beards, they’re scratchy…

[editor: Dufus, I am at a complete and utter f…ing loss. Where did all the charm go? This is supposed to be the personals. There’s more romance in the obituaries section of the newspaper. Did it evaporate. Really, I think it all wound up in Latin America. Check out those Colombiana personals. “creo en el amor por que lo he sentido”]

[D: What does that mean?]

[Ed: Who knows! We are talking hot. She could pop the fig leaf of a Greek statue just reading her shopping list]

[D: which supermarket? Safeway’s or Albertson’s?]

[Ed: Not the list, Dufus, the language, Spanish! – el idioma del amor]

.
.
THIS IS WHAT I DON'T UNDERSTAND .......

WHY ARE ..... SO MANY MEN .... willing to PAY $200 / $300 / $500 AND EVEN more UP TP $1000 / $2000. IT is just NO WAY any SEX is worth that price, and worst of all you are only getting a few hours of sex at BEST. As BEAUTIFUL as some of these women are .... it is still just SEX .... AS GOOD AS IT "FEELS" it is still just SEX.

....... SOME of the men who pay this price are BIG BALLER & SHOT CALLER .... but even they should know better. The some man who will NOT pay his employees a cent more, and would rather close his business than pay his employees .... will pay a HOOKER $500-$2000 per/ NIGHT. He will even short cut a project to save money .... WILL BIG SPEND ON A HOOKER.

....... LOOK at the Bunny Ranches in Nevada .... the two times I was there going to a Bunny Ranch was out of the question. I have a very good job, but I refuse to PAY ... those kind of prices for SEX.

....... HELL ..... Most men would DIVORCE their wives, if they had to pay them those kind of prices for SEX.

....... I DO THINK ANYONE SHOULD PAY MORE THAN $100 FOR "SEX" FROM ANY WOMAN HERE IN AMERICA, AND WORLDWIDE.

.... IF you are paying more they should be staying for hourS (that is more than just 1-2 hours). Top pay should be $50-75 for an hour, and you should be paying for the time, NOT per NUT.

....... I have turned down some REAL FOXES because they wanted TOO much. As I saw them on a slow night, they gave in and I got all I wanted far less.


.... FAR TOO MANY MEN especially Foreigners gave in and pay CRAZY prices for SEX ... whether good or bad.

.......CUT THIS PRACTICE SHORT .... REMEMBER YOU ARE THE ONE PAYING ... they are NOT paying you. Good service is rewarded with a TIP, NOT BAD.

>>>>> and STOP gaving up the money first .... IF YOU MUST GAVE ANY MONEY GAVE A 1/4-1/3 not HALF or FULL .... EVEN IF YOU KNOW THE WOMAN.

>>>> LASTLY ..... DON'T take your SW into nice neighborhoods. you are making the neighbors MAD and they are calling the cops. Keep your business in the business area of the SW.
Doing this will stop these sudden untimely crack down's.
.... YOU GET MY DRIFT ???????


>>>> PAYLESS ... GET MORE .... IT IS "YOUR MONEY."




....... ((((((( WORD ))))))) .......

The vein in my forehead is about to pop because I am plain frustrated. I find that here in America, my romantic life is the pits. Maybe its the city I live in thats too impersonal. I find dating is too slam bam thank you maam where I am. I met a woman in Europe who just showed me another world, the sweetness and kindness she showed to me a stanger was unbelievable, her inner beauty had highlighted her outer beauty, I would never find a lady like that where I live, NEVER! The thing is, she wants to remain in Europe. I am really willing to sacrifice what I have to be with her. After years of heartbreak I found someone. So I am in total agony now that I know this women is an ocean away and I just have to be with her, but I get pressure from friends and family to stay here in the states.

CBGB -- New York [b]is[/b] another world for dating, that's true. But sounds like you should stop thinking and just go, especially if your posts here are any indication of how your frustration is affecting the rest of your life. You'll make new friends and family will always be family, no matter where you are. Grab being happy wherever and whenever you can -- nobody gets enough chances.

Yo fatass, they just arrested a person ALLEGEDLY (innocent until proven guilty in the US; no Napoleonic code here in at least 49 of the 50 states) responsible for one of the Arizona fires and the suspect is male. Hope that doesn't rock your world too bad.

The vast majority of arsonists are male. Arsonists are frequently bedwetters, although that does not imply the converse. Deal with it.

Wow...I leave town for a couple of days and look at how this discussion has grown. It's almost as if everybody was waiting for me to leave...

Well, there are many new posts, but all have the same message: "Boo Hoo, nobody loves me and it's all THEIR fault!!!" We all need to grow up a bit and realize that WE are ultimately responsible for the way people perceive and/or treat us. If every morning, a different person kicks you in the crotch on your way to work, then it must be something that YOU are doing that brings about such a response. The whole "I am the center of the universe" thought process leads to a pathetic, sad life.

As men, would you want a woman who has let every little negative experience in her life cloud her way of thinking? Would you want a woman who always finds that cloud in the silver lining? Would you want a woman who has a one track mind and refuses to be budged from her self-centeredness? Would you want a woman who carries grudges to the extreme? NO? Well, if you don't want a woman like that, why would a woman want a man like that?

US Babe touched on this in an earlier post (and I did as well). The glory of being in a new place clouds your perceptions. Most Americans, when on vacation, visit the more touristy, up-scale areas and these places are generally filled with the "beautiful people". I am an ex-patriate myself. When I first came to live in Mexico, I was in paradise. I felt like Hugh Hefner. But soon reality sinks into your day to day life and whatever good or bad habits you have eventually return, just in a new setting. There is no plane trip long enough to get away from yourself.

Like I said earlier, I've never had problems with American women. I'm neither wealthy nor handsome . I've been without a car for most of my life and I live a very simple existence despite a fair share of up-scale jobs. Yet I've always found good women. How can this be? Am I the only one here who is lucky enough to find the "good ones?" There is nothing spectacular about me. Can it be that maybe women aren't generally as evil as you all say? Maybe American women are more difficult to deal with for some men because American women, unlike many foreign women, aren't ashamed to ask for what they want. Sure, many women's expectations aren't realistic, but are ours? Personally, I like a woman who is my equal and acts accordingly.

CBGB...man, you crossed the line between debate and just plain insanity. I believe the story about your "lady" in Europe, but I also believe in the Loch Ness Monster. Then again, most women ARE attracted to really inappropriate bursts of rage.

Sin...most women don't keep posting on boards like this because sooner or later they will get hit on by a desperate male who confuses common courtesy with flirtation.

FedUp...Glad that you don't still thiink that I'm an ass. Although, that may change pretty soon. The last time you were posting, you were sounding as self-pitying as most of these guys. Of course, YOU snapped out of it.

Nofatso...If you could only be as polite here as you are in e-mail. But we love you anyway, much like we all loved Archie Bunker despite his being wrong all of the time. By the way, did you tell your friend about what I said?

US Babe...Don't go away. We need a voice of reason to break up this pity party now and again.

Well, gotta run...

From: THE HAPPIEST MAN ALIVE