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I wouldn't neccesarily put all the blame on American women, its also the fault of men and our own environment that ultimately screw us over. I had a friend who is lives in New York and regularly travels to Brazil on vacation to meet women, Brazilian women are arguably some of the most beautiful and stunning women on the planet Earth. Here's the Catch 22, my friend fell in love with this absolutely beautiful and stunning 20 year old from Rio, I mean this woman would give you an automatic hard on, she was no need for Viagra beautiful. I mean anyone who wouldn't get aroused by her mere sight probably doesn't have a dick. He married her and brought her back to New York, she started to soak in the local culture and made friends with the locals, in the course of 3 months her attitude made a 180 degree turnaround from sweetheart to golddigger mercenary(the type of American women most guys here complain about). A few months later, when her Green Card was approved she dumped him like a bad habit and took away half of what he owned in a divorce. To add salt to his wounds, she wound up with a colleague of his in the financial services industry who was a lot more successful than he was. So the moral of the story is, that you might be a Don Juan in Rio, but you'll be a CHUMP in New York, or Los Angeles, or Chicago, or Boston, or Dallas(this list goes on and on).
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CBGBConnisur,
Choke off the source of said dilemma (DON'T move back to the US) and more than likely the problem would be solved. I can see your friend's wife as someone coming to another environment and being indoctrinated by the locals. If he lived in Rio, he and she would know that there are LOTS of honeys that can replace her at the drop of a dime. She would then be LESS inclined to adopt her American mannerisms.
Just my take on the situation....
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CBGB,
Sad stories like that one are all too common.
I agree with you that it is not the fault of the ladies per se. The slobbering packs of men who fall all over themselves over problematic women are probaly more to blame, along with "American society" than anything else.
As I mentioned in a previous post, it is the old world values thing.
Now, IMHO the only thing more aggressive than a native (all apologies to real native Americans) would be the transplanted foreign girl. She has had an eye opening experience, with a certain pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.
This is certainly nothing new, if you want your "sweet, traditional" girl to remain so, do not bring her out of her cultural homeland, move there!
Cheers,
Sporadic
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The important lesson to remember is that a foreign woman has the attractive qualities we American men desire because her culture largely created them and maintains them.
My hunch is that the average foreign bride is as likely to do a Jekyl and Hyde turn on a guy (probably a little more gradual) as is an American woman after she marries you.
It's just too risky to get married in America and live here with a woman. The odds are against a guy in our culture - period.
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Just to bring another perspective. I lived in Europe for many years and married a European woman. She moved to the States with me. She still cook me ethnic meals from my old country, cleans the house and wash my clothes. She is slim, look after herself and goes jogging everyday. I would have never expected the same treatment from an American woman (I mean white woman).
The original culture and education of the woman play a part. The women in America are less educated in a more general sense even though they may have been to college or university. Also there is no social safety net like in Europe. It makes women more materialistic and marriage give them among other financial safety. I know many couples in Europes who live together and even have kids but are not married.
Just my two cents...
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CBGB & Sporadic,
I've also heard WAY TOO MANY "War Stories" like this. It's little wonder why some guys just say "fuck it" and become expatriates in the country of their choice.
I'm seriously thinking of doing the same by moving back to Mexico: I'm already familiar with the culture, and I speak the language (fluently).
It's obvious that there's something in the (American) culture that's turning women into Olympian ball-busting gold diggers, regardless of said woman's cultural/national origin. In the military you see it all the time with Asian spouses (ask any Sailor/Airman about his Fillipino/Korean ex-wife; the stories will all sound the same).
Oh well, nothing like voting with your feet.
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Smut,
I agree with you about a problem with the American culture. The example that follows doesn't exactly follow what you mentioned, but I think it stems from the same flaw - our perception that we can become anything we want because we're Americans and we live in the land of the free. So, everybody wants to be rich, unfortunately, few achieve it (wealth is a relative thing & few people who have it feel that they have enough).
One year in the early '80's, from mid summer through mid December, I was working in East Texas. I travelled a lot with my job, but when I was on break from work (usually worked 2-3 weeks on and one week off), I was shacking up with a woman who lived in the projects in this small East Texas town where my company's office was located. She had a job, but it was low paying & she had two kids, so the projects was where she lived. While she was at work, I would usually hang out at her apartment & meet the neighbors - I was something of a couriosity, since I was the only white guy in the neighborhood. Anyway, these folks, weren't wealthy by any standard, but they had a roof over their heads, heating in the winter, AC in the summer, food on the table, most had a car to drive, they all had TV's and Stereos and most had at least a little cash in their pockets - and they were all MISERABLE, because they knew they were "poor in America". They had lost the American Dream, lost their hope of ever becoming what they wanted to become, which, in most cases was "rich".
In the mid '80's I was living and working in Brasil. I'm not going to regale you with tales of life in the flavellas (I avoided those places like the plague, which may or may not be present there), but I will tell you about a little fishing village. This village was near Canoa Quebrada (beach town near Fortaleza). About half a dozen guys that worked on my crew were from this little village & they invited me to visit one time while I was on break from work. I took them up on the offer and spent the weekend with them. They lived in mud huts, had no electricity, no indoor plumbing, I think there were maybe two motorized vehicles in the village (one was a motorcycle), no readily accessible health care, no access to schools, in short, they were living in a very primitive environment. Yet, they were all, for the most part, Happy. Certainly more-so than the folks in the East Texas Projects.
My conclusion is that the Brasillians never had "the American Dream", so they never lost it. They still had hope though. They also had an amazing work ethic, yet they never allowed work to get in the way of having a good time.
CW
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Cash, Chorfa1, Jak, Sporadic,
Reading the last few posts, it seems to me that we are all basically saying the same thing. Hell, tonight I'm working on my plan to move out of the U.S. (seriously).
American men just seem to be playing against a stacked deck.
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Smut Villain,
just outta curiosity, where do you plan on settling down? The reason I ask is because I also plan on doing the same thing, but I haven't decided on any one country yet, and the choices I DO have in mind are quite varied (location-wise, but not weather-wise). Panama and Costa Rica are a couple of choices, 'cos I used to live in Panama and Costa Rica is right next door. There's also the Philippines, 'cos a good friend of mine has family there (and is considered quite well off in his native country). The Dollar goes quite a ways in all countries mentioned, AND (biggest deal-maker) no American women to poison the minds of the local honeys.
Anybody else have such plans in the making, and if so, what country did you/will you choose?
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Sinanju,
There's a bunch of places I'd love to move to (Thailand, Philipines, Australia, et al), but realistically speaking, I think Mexico or anyplace in Central America would be my best bet. I lived in Mexico for a few years, and I'm familiar with the culture (and I speak fluent Spanish). Even living in a border town like Tijuana or Matamoros, there is a noticable difference in the attitudes of the women (as compared to , say, the U.S.)
Plus, it's the easiest place to live as an (effective) expatriate. You can make a salary of (for example) $25,000 working in San Diego, but when you go back home at the end of the day it spends more like $40,000. You can live like a king without going into the poorhouse.
I'd like to move to some of these other places, but there are matters to consider (like, where are you going to work? What about medical care? Drivers' License?). If I could answer each of those questions with ease, then I'd consider the other locales (like Costa Rica, Panama, Thailand, et al)
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Have you considered El Paso TX. After my lease and work assignment are up in Phoenix, I plan to move there. It is composed of 80% Hispanic, so Spanish is pretty much heard all over the place. Plus, I have noticed that the American women of all ethnic groups there, due to the Hispanic culture, are easier to deal with than the mostly Midwestern-raised women here in Arizona.
Also, since I work in healthcare, finding a job is very easy. The pay is comparative to the one I am making in Phoenix, so I won't be losing anything in terms of salary. In fact, I will be earining more since the cost of living in El Paso is one of the cheapest in the US. In addition, it has the same weather as Phoenix, so I won't have to deal with the rain and snow that I abhorred while going to college in the Northeast US.
In addition, Juarez is just a walk/drive across the bridges. It is the 4th largest city in Mexico, so there are things to do there that are similar to stuff we have in the US, such as Wal-Mart, KFC, Wendy's, etc. Plus, I am already familiar with the area, so there won't be any culture shock for me.
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Sun Devil,
El Paso, huh? I guess it makes sense. The Southwest is the only place I know of where you can become an expatriate without moving out of the country (LOL). You ever think of living in Juarez (and commuting to El Paso for work)? I did it all the time in Tijuana, and I was able to take advantage of the MUCH LOWER cost of living in Mexico (why more Americans in San Diego didn't try it, I'll never know).
Maybe the same would work in Juarez?
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I would consider moving into Juarez. I need to know the legal ramification before doing so, however. Perhaps I'll live in El Paso for about 6 months and move to Juarez or stay in El Paso altogether, although El Paso is way boring compared to Juarez, which has an open city market, dance clubs, bullring, and street activities. It seems that the people in Mexico tend to interact among each other outside the home more than in the US, especially in Phoenix where, due to the heat, people tend to stay indoors more often.
I do know that a lot of Mexicans, who had the abillity to get the required paperwork done, living in Juarez do work in El Paso, so I know that it can be done. That is one metro area that has blurred the concept of an international boundary between the US and Mexico.
Don't know the reason why more Californians don't move to Tijuana and work in San Diego. I used to fly from Phoenix to San Diego's airport, ride the commuter bus and train to San Ysidro, cross the border and fly from Tijuana's airport when I had a Mexican girlfriend living in Durango, Mexico, since it was cheaper for me to do it that way. Perhaps they are not fluent in Spanish or just scared shitless with regards to any dealings with the Mexican population.
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More Americans don't do it because, moving to TJ and commuting to SD every day would be a nightmare. There are frequently 1.5 to 2 hour border crossings, not to mention the traffic getting from south San Diego up into north San Diego, Escondido, etc. The COL savings is just not worth the 4 to 5 hours a day that would be lost to commutting.
Oh, and, there's always the, TJ is a cesspool (only good for mongering) argument as well :)
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PurpleNGold,
You points are well-taken, and I can vouch for their validity (everything you've said is something I've run into down there at one time or another).
BUT...
1) The border crossing isn't that bad if you know how/when/where to do it. When driving, I always used the Otay Mesa Crossing, which is near the San Ysidro gates. That can cut your wait to about half the time. And you can walk across the San Ysidro border faster than most people can drive across; the San Diego trolley system on the other side is a surprisingly effective means of transportation to/from work.
2) Yes, indeed, Tijuana definitely has a world-class reputation for being a cesspool of iniquity (and I do mean WORLD-CLASS). But you'll find that the smut only extends as far as downtown - you know, where the tourists (aka easy marks) like to hang out. But if you move as little as 3 blocks from that border area you'd find that the "TJ" becomes a completely different city: people are nicer, the cops are less corrupt, and the town isn't as dirty. And I've seen more babes there than you can shake a stick at. You shouldn't even have to pay for it outside of "Zona Norte" (downtown) as these girls are MUCH easier to deal with.
As with a lot of foreign locales, you'll find that there's more than meets the eye if you dig a little deeper. But maybe I don't want the rest of the world to know that; this other side of Tijuana was a well-kept secret among my fellow expatriates down there. If it became more "Americanized" it would just ruin everything anyway (more local women for us!).